Can you build main streets in the suburbs?

[@philippugh9159]

One key feature of actual downtowns is that they typically include places that are not primarily businesses. Usually there are parks, government buildings, churches, and local organizations that add value to a community that isn't easily calculated in dollars.

[@ICantEven2It]

That’s basically the main street in my town

[@9manny99]

I think old towns like Paducah,Ky are like this.

[@boboneill6554]

Public transportation usually focuses on downtown

[@AdmiralBison]

I think there needs to be 'Human condition' variable that needs to be added to Economic plans. It effects job and productivity performance, contributes to social malaise and costs billions in mental health care costs.

[@kushal4956]

not necessarily. downtowns in New York and Chicago are mainly shopping centers

[@nicknickbon22]

These lifestyle centers look like the “outlet malls” built in Italy. They want to look like a typical central Italy village, with a “sampietrini” pavement, but they appear artificial when you see the enormous parking lot surrounding them and the motorway running on the horizon.

[@mmhoss]

I've only ever known these "lifestyle centres" as outdoor malls honestly, that's just what they are

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Strip malls with more annoying layouts and mostly froo froo stores for women with small dogs.

[@djwestbrook36]

Bushrod Rust Johnson they’re better than the old strip malls tho

[@prion42]

We have one nearby and everyone knows the experience is fake, we just consider it a "theme mall"

[@djwestbrook36]

@@johnperic6860 Yeah its probably just that. And believe me, even if we stopped building strip malls today there would be more than enough to see in our lifetime. We should focus on moving past strip malls

[@ixlnxs]

Indeed. I had never heard the term "lifestyle center" before, and without this video I would have assumed they were what the British call "leisure centres", i.e. indoor swimming pools with fitness equipment, spa and playgrounds.

[@JP-1990]

Every "lifestyle center" I've ever been to felt like I was in a theme park.

[@dariuspk2850]

The Atlanta Beltline in a nutshell

[@soccerruben1]

Check out Rancho Cucamonga’s Victoria Garden’s in SoCal for an example of a lifestyle center

[@nlabonte]

Lifestyle Center: a shopping mall pretending to not be a shopping mall.

[@Novusod]

The biggest problem with these suburban town centers is lack of living space, apartments, and such. Traditional downtowns were designed to be places to live. Shopping was secondary. The suburban town center flips the concept of a downtown on it's head. The shopping is placed first and the living space is usually absent entirely. These town centers are basically just open air malls.

[@hauntedshadowslegacy2826]

It'd be wonderful if new town centers could have living spaces, but most states have laws against mixed zoning.

[@ProvenScroll]

The 'main street' in my suburb has apartments and shops but it's surrounded by nothing but parking lol

[@AdmiralBison]

Yep. Anyone notice in the video these lifestyle centers ironically are devoid of life, as the buildings don't have accommodation blocks on any of them and car centric.

[@cubeofcheese5574]

I thought the downtown were originally built as hubs for trading. Back before cars were invented. Farmers would go into town to sell produce or buy tools etc

[@maggiejetson7904]

There are some that includes both, but then you have to deal with competition for resources like parking and traffic. It is hard to prioritize both housing (being quiet and low traffic) and retail (being vibrant and high traffic).

[@fredrikkarner4115]

They look like streets but they feel hollow and artificial

[@Fermifire]

They feel very out there, like if a corporation took over the country and forced its citizens to live inside shopping centers. I get that vibe.

[@MrAdoh2010]

Tasteless and lifeless, I can't stand them or the idiots overpaying to "enjoy" this drivethru urban life.

[@ktt1977]

That's the impression I get. Very sterile. A shopping mall designed to look like main street.

[@noobmaster-dm7tu]

@John Proctor i think i agree

[@Bellinghamster]

I don't think it is necessary to get so caught up on labels. Just make nice places people want to be and multi story areas both promise and contain more than a simple strip mall. Other than that so much of the formula is simply style and architecture. I find it peculure when some towns take a strip mall, put a brick facade on it and then rebrand it as an urban village like it is all new. It is exactly the same strip mall with a veneer and suddenly its an urban village? There is a lot of power in branding, labels and perceptions but in the end it is more of a mind trick or PR than anything new and different.

[@Coolsomeone234]

In Australia, 'Malls' ( We call them shopping centres) Survive by having supermarkets in them

[@ToddKeck98]

Same in my country, plus airconditioning too since most houses lack AC

[@mshara1]

Shopping centres did so well in Australia in part due to Westfield Shopping Towns, which essentially brought the Main Street indoors by having lots of stores, reasonably high quality fitouts and not depending on large footprint anchor stores.

[@ToddKeck98]

@LagiNaLangAko23 Manila's way too hot and to be honest, people only stay in malls for the aircon. Not really a fan of the amenities, they're just the same thing especially SM.

[@achuuuooooosuu]

@LagiNaLangAko23 For a country that is very humid especially on dry seasons, it would actually be practical to put up a mall since the reason most people are going outside is because of having something to cover themselves from the heat, as well as free Wi-Fi and air conditioning. Malls in the Philippines also provides work and they have big terminals for people to commute back and forth, some malls even have places of worship and the ground floor typically serves as the main venue for events. Heck, there was even a high school graduation that took place in a mall.

[@ToddKeck98]

@LagiNaLangAko23 Yeah, and they're removing trash cans too to say they're "zero waste". What a load of horsesheet.

[@kacperwoch4368]

Meanwhile in Europe: Doing your shopping on a 1000 year old market square and going back home on foot.

[@lilyydotdev]

Lol trueeee

[@ChiRedWhiteBlue]

Not true everywhere

[@lilyydotdev]

@@ChiRedWhiteBlue it's still funny

[@mdlchannel8318]

Not entirely true when crazy dictators decided to rape your city center and build their megalomaniac palaces. The city center in my city was let to fall for most of the communist period so they can build over it's ruins. Good thing that people are much more aware now and try to rebuild and rehabilitate the buildings that are still stand.

[@anthonyg7584]

Meanwhile in America: get in your car and drive for 14 mins to get to the new organic fresh market that opened across town

[@Jag2112707]

The so called "Lifestyle center" in my city is no where near a pedestrian friendly center like the onces in the video. I admire the lifestyle center that focus on pedestrians and not catered toward the typical suburban big box style center.

[@Jag2112707]

Whats more funnier is that in 2016 it won the best lifestyle center award for Texas.

[@fivesquaredyt2521]

Jag2112707 69 likes

[@npgibson69]

Redmond is totally car oriented. No one walks. The video may have been misleading, but I live near there. Honestly, it’s a serious problem for disabled residents, many can’t even hold a job because there’s no way to get to work.

[@AmbientMorality]

@@npgibson69 University Village by UW Seattle is probably approaching the "pedestrian friendly lifestyle center" now. Still a decent amount of parking, but it's getting pushed into garages and lots are getting replaced by... bigger Apple stores.

[@muffinmonk]

@@Jag2112707 Arlington highlands? you're right it looks terrible. may as well just be strip malls. there is one near us called oak brook center in IL, it is surrounded by parking, but the core is very pedestrian-like and completely outdoors.

[@aaronschannel373]

I’m 20 years old and i grew up in a small city with an intact main street and i really took for granted how nice it was having a place like that for me and my friends to walk around. I always hated the corporate and artificial feeling i got from lifestyle centers and malls. I hope it still continues to provide that invaluable and inimitable environment it provided for me for years to come.

[@halfglassfull]

Redmond's "old" downtown has evolved over several years to become a true town center. Just a couple of blocks from Redmond Town Center (aka outdoor mall), it is a true downtown as it is fronted by hundreds of apartments/condos, has restaurants and retail, a new city park and grocery stores, plus direct access to hike/bike trails that go for miles in each direction. There is a selection of hotels as well. It has all public streets and ties into the surrounding neighborhoods especially Education Hill. My only issue is a majority of the living quarters along the main streets are rental and so it is very transient. It also lacks access to light rail although they are working on it.

[@bonecanoe86]

The best suburban main streets are the ones that have existed for 100+ years and it's very hard to artificially replicate that feeling.

[@generpicado7838]

Mine is like this but the stores scream trendy instagramable coffee shop

[@9manny99]

Shame we are not moving towards just returning to form and learning from Europe. Feel bad for old towns that gave up their beautiful town for Walmart and malls.

[@Draber2b]

It is probably possible to build a main street quickly, however to avoid making it a "lifestyle center" one would have to care less about monetary gains. Main streets include churches (or similar), parks, way more apartments, which are all elements that a private owner isn't going to monetize. On top of that the constructor would have to give away his property, because mainstreets can't be owned (they should be public). Theoretically a *very altruistic* investor could build a semi-decent mainstreet. Unlikely there will ever be one.

[@justrandomthings319]

@@9manny99 then move to Europe.

[@HelloWorld-yq9yy]

@@Draber2b they would need to let different people build each building, or maybe only a portion. When you design everything from scratch it tends to turn into sterile suburbia

[@Larkinchance]

City squares were common areas for it's citizens. It functions as a basic element of democracy. Malls have replaced the town square with a private area dedicated to only shoppers. In the process of securing the best location, commerce has replaced a valuable and historic public asset. At the entrance of the mall in my town is a long list of “don't”. Included in them was a ban of public expression.. You should do a piece on the public square...

[@onetwothreeabc]

You can still protest on public squares... Just people won't shop there.

[@Larkinchance]

@@onetwothreeabc To answer you comment, in a majority of towns in the US there is a lack of town squares and parks conducive for gatherings, civil, political or otherwise. .

[@onetwothreeabc]

@@Larkinchance Do you have some sort of statistics to back your claim? For all the cities that I lived in the US, there are public parks that are conveniently accessible and probably can fit the entire town's population if a protest crowd is densely formed. Can you name some cities/towns that there is no public squares/parks for protest?

[@Larkinchance]

@@onetwothreeabc ask someone else...

[@onetwothreeabc]

@@Larkinchance You just don't have an answer, and what you claimed is baseless.

[@berendoldenburger]

I'm from Christchurch, New Zealand. Our city has jumped on the bandwagon of lifestyle centres in the city centre. It is common to notice that major banks have designed brand new buildings with courtyards that allow the public to enter and purchase from retailers. There are a lot of streets that are now dedicated for pedestrians and trams only. Major international brands are now available and it is bringing many to the centre of Christchurch. Many malls in the outer suburbs are now beginning to struggle due to new lifestyle centres and online shopping.

[@Natibe_]

Where I live, we have one of these, but it also has the town library, town hall, fire dept, and an outdoor theatre/park plus apartments above and townhouses nearby. It’s not really a Main Street, as all the businesses are chains and the whole thing is literally removed from the main road, but it acts a lot like one for us in the community. It is public, not private, however.

[@SBKWaffles]

Now I'm curious what city that might be...

[@azieljames6067]

sounds like Robbinsville, NJ

[@MarkPemble]

I wonder if this Main st. is public property or private.

[@dZaq]

@@azieljames6067 Exactly. Pair that with the Toll Brothers' "cookie-cutter" developments, and you have yourself a perfectly designed Suburgatory. Copy and paste, and you have successfully privatized American cities.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Pretty much all streets originally come from a private land developer deciding where they want the street to be. Then they dedicate it for public use or a private easement in a legally recorded plat. The private developer usually pays for the initial street construction costs too. This is how they get sellable lots.

[@plannerduck3136]

It is also interesting when you have a city that has a traditional and very historic Main Street, a traditional mall, and then a lifestyle center. It gets even more interesting when you then delve into the General Plan and economic development policies that talk about where to focus commercial growth.

[@Chaosrunepownage]

I love how I live near one of these "lifestyle centers" and the majority of the shop spaces are still generic pictures of what could go in there. The theater is awesome but all the shops that are supposed to go around it haven't moved in at least five years since we found out about it. It's a glorified dead strip mall with a giant parking ramp.

[@eidrag]

bigger mall but open space and cars instead of walking indoor

[@kennyjeong6462]

Excellent use of graphics. (Thumbs up)

[@CitiesoftheFuture]

so true!

[@highnoon9333]

My parents live at a mixed-use "lifestyle center" that opened in 2015 and I'm always a little creeped out by it

[@Montfortracing]

Why were you creeped out by them?

[@aerob1033]

I feel like there's a lot of "it depends" on this. The lines between "lifestyle centers" and "new urbanism" tend to blur a bit. I've seen ones that are no more than an outdoor shopping mall, surrounded by a massive sea of parking and with no mix of uses. I've seen ones with lots of apartments and office space, integrated into an existing street grid, and with nearby streets filled with medium-density townhomes and small-lot SFD. And I've also seen everything in between. I think as an overall trend, they're a definite improvement on the stereotypical shopping mall, but I agree they're not as good as traditional urbanism.

[@colormedubious4747]

@ghost mall There are at least 222 new urban communities listed in the USA alone. Very few of them are JUST "outdoor malls" like those shown, although most do offer appropriately-scaled retail space. In which "more places" do you wish to see new urbanism, specifically? Tell me which region you call home and I can probably find several examples within an easy day trip for you to go check out for yourself.

[@linden5713]

In England smaller towns have high streets. It’s a road of small shops and businesses. The road is literally called high street and sometimes is one way. But larger towns usually have shopping centres old large towns most likely have both

[@Noct31]

Good stuff, as always. The town I live in (Normal, IL) is a good example of doing a new "main street" in modern times right. They took about 4-5 blocks right off a major college campus and next to a train station and turned it into their "Uptown" area. There's about a dozen restaurants and bars, a few coffee shops, varied retail, offices, hotels, a children's museum, and a big traffic circle with a public space in the center. It hosts tons of festivals during the year, and is very walking-friendly. It's become the hub of the town, when before there really wasn't one.

[@ssssaa2]

In the midwest, all the towns have main streets because they are all from before the automobile, even if they remained very small for a long time until becoming a suburb of some city later on.

[@dunnowy123]

I live in Markham, Ontario, Canada. They've been developing a "downtown" for the past few years in a relatively disconnected, car oriented suburb. It's taken a while, but with a major cinema, restaurants, bars and stores, it's finally resembling a pretty good "entertainment district" or "lifestyle centre." For some context, Markham is still a land of strip plazas. There is a main street (two actually), but they're small. This downtown Markham idea has finally created a space people could conceivably hang out at, en masse. So for that, I support it.

[@Electrify85]

Speaking of Markham, I look at the high streets in some of their New Urbanist neighbourhoods like Cathedraltown and Cornell. Unless things have changed (haven't been to the GTA in several years) the former was like an abandoned movie set and the latter only had professional and doctor's offices and almost no general retail. Both are technically public space, as opposed to private lifestyle centres. As much as it will piss off urban purists, it makes one wonder if the ends justify the means. While some lifestyle centres are just malls without the roof, some of the examples in this video actually look pretty good, trying to mix uses and integrate into the existing community. Yes they are technically private and yes they have more space dedicated to parking, but are they really that much worse than the examples listed above?

[@saxmanb777]

I guess lifestyle centers are better than set back strip malls, but they never seem to connect very well with anything around them.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

That's just a fact of physics for development that is not restricted by how far people can conveniently walk. People can get to them so they are obviously connected somehow.

[@AmbientMorality]

@@MilwaukeeF40C There's usually limited entrances and such though. Streets are designed for good connectivity, lifestyle centers are not

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

@@AmbientMorality Streets are designed how the original property developer wanted them. Nowadays "planners" cut off connectivity with limited access arterials and zoning.

[@jeff_t_matsuda]

We have those in LA; Caruso-designed properties like the Grove and the Americana. The Grove was a seriously missed opportunity; a mostly walled off-mall in the most walkable areas of L.A. The Americana is a better integrated with the Glendale downtown, with storefronts facing the street. I hope they redo the Grove to have a better connection with the rest of the Mid-city neighborhood.

[@thefifthhour45]

We've got lots of these in Australian suburbs, ever since they were satellite towns on railway lines (now suburban centres) with their own singular identity, before sprawling suburbia took place. Nowadays, many of these places have had a significant facelift in recent years, and I've noticed a bit more walkability, even though cars are pretty much the primary mode of transport.

[@andrewross1515]

What an exciting surprise to see my home, Redmond, on here! Redmond Town Center was opened when I was in middle school and it was never as lively or genuine feeling as they meant it to be, though it has improved in recent years; as you could probably (maybe?) tell from some of the shots of RTC, it used to have a road going right through the middle of it, but they closed it off to vehicles a few years ago, which helped make it a viable place to stroll and do some leisurely shopping, though it does still have two big parking garages and a large parking lot, so it is still very much auto-oriented. By 2024 there will be a light rail stop at the edge of RTC which may help it grow into a more organic feeling place for people to be. Additionally the Redmond Saturday Market (farmers market) is also located at the edge of RTC, and its only a block or so from the historic downtown, which is coming together nicely these days. Redmond has really stepped up their planning game in the last decade or so and bought into the idea of mixed use zoning to revitalize the actual downtown. A little street realignment here, a new Downtown Park centerpeice there, mixed with ground floor retail and plenty of apartment units and it has really changed the feel of downtown. They put a lot of planning information on their website too (www.redmond.gov/891/Neighborhoods) which is organized by neighborhood. They have pretty positive stuff planned for the areas around the incoming light rail stops as far as shifting the orientation to make pedestrians and bicycles part of the fabric from the beginning, such as protected bike lanes, narrowing the vehicle right of ways, and widening the sidewalk areas. I just today read through the street design guidelines for the upcoming Overlake Village neighborhood (www.redmond.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1542/Overlake-Village-Street-Design-Guidelines-PDF) which will replace two strip shopping centers (one was formerly anchored by a massive Sears, which closed last year www.redmond-reporter.com/news/city-of-redmond-studies-proposed-overlake-redevelopment/) and a their enormous parking lots with a light rail stop anchoring a mixed use neighborhood featuring multiple parks, a ton of retail space, and thousands of housing units.

[@Aiden214]

I've noticed that in some areas of Australia with strong communities, they oppose developments of shopping centres as they would kill off main streets or if they are developed, the main streets become eat streets.. In many new suburbs however, I don't think residents care at all about their area and why would they? tmThey all look exactly the same!. It's an attitude of the more the better. They side with consumerism.

[@mshara1]

You're quite right. There is only four Westfield Shopping centres within the middle-ring of Sydney (about half the urban area.): Burwood, Sydney CBD, Eastgardens and Bondi Junction. There's twice as many outside.

[@kristaw206]

@ghost mall It worked when it was all exciting and new from like the 50s-90s, but now we're over it and see how bad it is

[@16randomcharacters]

Redmond Town Center is a mall. No one thinks of it differently. The closest thing to a main street/downtown to Redmond, east of downtown Bellevue at least, is the area around Crossroads. I lived in BelRed for a few years, and I can tell you there's way more organic life on the Crossroads area.

[@fionafiona1146]

It's sooo od from a European perspective!

[@seppemanderick497]

fiona fiona you’re right, i’m belgian and i find it very interesting to look at

[@vksepe]

It is! I come from a city which used to be seen as a concrete jungle but recently they've revamped everything and now were getting large companies such as HSBC establishing their headquarters here. But the entire city centre has been turned into a lifestyle centre with various mixuse establishments as well as a large mall. The big difference being that the mall doesnt have a moat of parking but instead connections to bus/rail/and tram routes as well as a small amount of parking. But I guess thats easier as the old streets werent built for the car.

[@niklaseriksson81]

Indeed it’s so odd as an European! Feels and seems so lifeless and hollow

[@MK-ex4pb]

@@niklaseriksson81 it's terrible. We Americans and Canadians suffer greatly in suburbs.

[@SuperCatman]

God, what a fuck up my city (Billings, Montana) is. It's in a beautiful area but the car really had killed us. We do, however, happen to have all of the sections mentioned in the video, our 'Main Street' being Montana Avenue, our mall, and our community centres/promenades at Shiloh and West Park.

[@laurens1698]

The city I live in (Columbus, OH) is actually a really interesting case study in the evolution from urban areas to malls and back again. We had the standard story of suburban malls taking the retail away from downtown, which the city tried to fight by building a new urban mall downtown. That worked for about 15 years, until it's high end stores were poached by one of the first lifestyle centers (Easton Town Center) in the country when it was built along the outerbelt. Easton has sort of been evolving in to much more of a downtown type area than a typical lifestyle center, it's surrounded by offices and apartments and most parking is in garages. I'd also be interested to hear what you think of the new urbanist style developments that blur the lines even more between downtown and malls, where they mimic urban areas even more closely with things like streets organized into blocks and a higher number of mom & pop shops relative to chains. A side note, there's another interesting local story in how Middletown OH chose to deal with suburbanization. They actually used federal redevelopment funds to enclose their main street and turn downtown into a mall. When the "mall" died, they ended up tearing the roof structure down and rebuilding the streets.

[@samculver9852]

Lauren S Also an Ohioan-there are three Middletowns in Ohio, the most in any state. I’m assuming you’re referring the largest one, between SW and Central Ohio?

[@laurens1698]

@@samculver9852 Yeah the one between Cincy and Dayton

[@notsure6187]

I heard that Columbus is one of the most public transit averse cities in the country.

[@elleharl]

I live in Columbus Ohio too and its so weird but really cool reading about Easton from a stranger on youtube that happens to live in the same city as me and we probably shop the same places LOL. Hello fellow Columbus friend, and thank you for commenting!

[@elleharl]

@@notsure6187 eh.. probably not the 'most,' but in this city most people have cars because its on flat land and our city its big and wide and it takes a long time to get from one side of town to the other because its so spread out. You can get to places faster with a private vehicle than you can with public transit. Also, in my experience people in this city seem to think transit is beneath them, and only 'poor people' ride transit. I have a car but choose to take the bus when going to more populated areas of the city or during rush hour. It just depends on who you're talking to.

[@canadalavearn]

In my city, the city hall and what was *supposed* to be downtown (but never got built) is directly across from the General Motors Tech Center, so RIP to walkable/bikeable anything.

[@frogray7929]

We have a main street in my home town. It's great, has dedicated parking on the side of the road, but only one row of cars near perpendicular to the street so it can have enough parking without actual parking lots. This also makes street corners wonderfully big and nice looking. Majority of the business are offices and restaurants. There isn't a single chain business until the street goes outside our city limits.

[@tjlewis9299]

As always, informative content. My favourite urban planning channel from across the pond.

[@mke245]

As a Sacramento native, I appreciate that you use footage from places like Arden Mall. It is not at all an exceptional mall, but it's cool to recognize the food court sign.

[@jakewilde1544]

Santana Row in California is an especially weird one as it's right across the street from an absolutely massive mall.

[@CityBeautiful]

I've noticed that a lot of lifestyle centers are near malls. The one I filmed myself in is across the street from the biggest mall in the area.

[@generpicado7838]

There’s a lifestyle center that is owned by the local mall where I live

[@buizelbus3332]

Up here in Vancouver Canada, it seems that all of our malls are redeveloping themselves into mixed use high rises. For example, Oakridge Mall is being turned into a series of luxury condos with public streets and retail at the bottom. Lansdowne Centre is turning into the same in the suburbs, and Richmond Centre is turning the moat of parking into high-rises, and moving that parking underground.

[@ellenorbjornsdottir1166]

Mallpartments!

[@EibaProductions]

Fun fact: Shopping malls were invented by the Austrian architect Victor Gruen after the second world war, in order to create a center in the suburban areas. The first one of this kind was Northland shopping centre in Southfield, Michigan. He was inspired by the typical Austrian village, which has a core with little shops and services, and so he envisoned malls as well. As you said, commerce took over and replaced everything, and the mall turned into a shopping center. It's kinda funny, that through online shopping these malls now turn more into the places he anticipated - a place where people like to stay and spend time. And he famously said as well: "A car doesn't buy anything"

[@CityBeautiful]

That's why I named the mall "The Galleria at Gruen Place." ;)

[@EibaProductions]

@@CityBeautiful true, now that I watched the video a second time, I spotted it. Nice Easter Egg ;)

[@michaelstanleyy]

This video is amazing. I have a lifestyle center close to me and it has everything from a bank, post office, restaurants, retail, grocery store, eye doctors, schools, apartments and white picket fence neighborhoods all within a few acres in the middle of the suburbs!! And most of the retail are mom and pop stores too!

[@tigerburn81]

Usually spelled: "Towne Centre", insufferably.

[@branbello]

Olde Towne Centre

[@tigerburn81]

@@Tombstone_Active you know who else wants to know your location?

[@lozoft9]

Does anyone in England actually know of places spelled "Towne"?

[@georgeaird4637]

SoDo Sopa

[@Blaqjaqshellaq]

In Toronto they used to have one called Towne & Countrye...

[@normanknutsen8253]

I agree with him on many points but Downtown Silver Spring is surrounded by a real urban area. It is built in the middle of an area that in the 50s and 60s had two department stores built along a street and was the 2nd largest retail cluster between Baltimore and Richmond, of course after Washington, DC. It also is three blocks away from a Metro Station, and has multiple bus lines that both go to downtown DC and into the other Maryland Suburbs on both ends of the privately owned street. It is a few blocks from one of the top 10 metro stations in the DC area (admititly geared towards suburban traffic) and a two story bus hub in the Washington, DC area as well as commuter train and intercity bus station. It served as the anchor for a revival of the rest of downtown Silver Spring. Downtown Silver Spring at one point also had more office space (built along streets that look like they could be in downtown DC (with 3 to 12+ story buildings) with side walks immediately outside. There are however a lot of parking garages, originally used for Metro commuters but now many are being torn down for new apartment buildings and offices. Mind you it is only around 40 square blocks of urban space surrounded by 1920s thru 1960s single family homes and low to mid-rise apartment buildings. The census designated place, according to Wikipedia, has a density of 9,000 people per square mile which has a density of around 11,000 people per square mile. Good video. Thank you

[@EurasiaOnYT]

Wow, fantastic video. I definitely can appreciate the work put into your videos as a creator myself. Great video!

[@CitiesoftheFuture]

Great channel!...We will check out your content! ;)

[@1973Washu]

Small lifestyle centers are providing a function that malls cant provide , they can be built into the town plan of a new housing development so that the suburb will have shops within a short drive rather than an hour to the megamall at the edge of the city , and provide more things than a mini mall can. They are emulating a main street. And your definition of a 'proper' main street is impractical . It would take years to have one grow 'organically' in a suburb if one even grew at all.

[@CitiesoftheFuture]

Great Video! We are big fans in Cities of the Future...Thanks for subscribing!

[@mariebonnat2600]

Great video! i came here from Cities of the Future! :)

[@brucewayne-cn4vd]

My town in NY has a traditional main street and its awesome. Its the soul of our community. I can't imagine living in a neighborhood like levittown where its just houses everywhere you go. Here I can walk out of my house and down my street to go to all the restaurants I like.

[@euenfheiejrj]

Same with my hometown in NJ. I didn’t even really realize how rare these suburbs (pre war, railroad towns) were until fairly recent.

[@THE_BATLORD]

funny you brought up santana row as it's location is next to the westfield mall, has no mass transit options aside from a bus station, and the winchester mystery house, a local tourist attraction. There's a couple other "lifestyle centers" around san jose but they tend to be more residential oriented but they still fit the definition pretty well.

[@ArchOfWinter]

What's your take on Japanese merchant streets that are often pedestrian only street with a covered roof? or the underground malls that are common in cities in Asia?

[@eidrag]

I love shotengai 商店街

[@lunayen]

They're still main streets as they all grew organically. Japan's new tsukiji market could be considered a lifestyle area/mall, as they built it in a more concentrated space further away from the harbor.

[@AmbientMorality]

@@lunayen Honestly, pedestrian-oriented shared use or even pedestrian-only (public) streets are more in the spirit of a main street than a medium-size road.

[@Martinit0]

Also interesting that lot's of malls are centered around train stations in Japan, e.g. Kyoto, Osaka.

[@Sam-gq8ze]

Most frightening that Americans think suburbs are best and most convenient living spaces

[@nsytr06]

1:28 Hey, I live near that. It works more as a center for Whitefish Bay than it does Glendale (which is on the other side of I-43). It's at the end of a car heavy commercial street (Port Washington Rd) and a main street (Silver Spring Dr). My mom tells me its being redesigned away from being an "open-mall" retail center to a more mixed commercial/professional/residential area. She also would like to point out that having to walk outside isn't great during Wisconsin winters.

[@googlelover13]

Great video! As an enthusiastic amateur, I love how accessible your videos are. Keep it up! It's interesting to see how elements of US retail design have crept across the Atlantic to Ireland and the UK. During the last economic boom in Ireland (1996-2008), malls (or shopping centres, as we call them) were built on the outskirts of nearly every town in the country. Now the main streets are empty, family businesses have shut down and the shopping centres are filled with soulless chain stores that have no personality. The atmosphere of small country towns has been destroyed. I hope as the West slowly moves away from mass-produced goods and back towards 'authentic' locally made products, the main streets will be reinvigorated!

[@sublimebri]

I'm so lucky to live in a village where we still have a unique and beautiful main street with great little shops and restaurants/bars. Also malls, and big retail stores arent far off..

[@devilpizza123]

I would love it if you could visit Melbourne one day. We have many "main streets" (we call them high streets here) such as the ones you describe like Chapel St, Brunswick St, Acland St (This one removed all car access), Glenferrie Rd etc that are in suburban areas but are full of life. However at the same time, we have massive shopping centres such as Chadstone and Highpoint which are some of the most profitable malls in Australia. It's quite a sight, as Melbourne is heavily car centric, however, as it has retained an extensive tram network, the high streets of the suburbs are still thriving more than ever and are generally the trendiest parts of town. Also I think you would love Melbourne as an urban planner. I see it as if an American city and a European city had a child together so it's not quite one and it's not quite the other, but a strange mix of both.

[@mshara1]

Australia is a bit strange in that both our "main streets" and "shopping centres" are thriving. The comparison with the USA is striking. We actually became more attached to main streets, whilst they became less so.

[@CityBeautiful]

I'd love to visit Australia (and Melbourne in particular). Maybe someday!

[@Hannymcfee]

I play cities skylines and you help a lot

[@CityBeautiful]

Just wait until my next video on planned cities! :D

[@samuelprado5266]

@@CityBeautiful oooooff are we about to venture into the world of Haussmannization? This is gonna be good

[@marcelmoulin3335]

Having read through the various comments, I must emphasise that before WWII, the US had well-defined, charming, inviting city/town centres. When the automobile companies bought up the superb railroads and then ran them into the ground, they effectively paved the way for the development and proliferation of suburbia. The American government in the 50's provided huge incentives for motorway development that decimated city centres. With white flight from many urban cores, cities disintegrated. Although some American cities tried to revitalise their city centres in the last forty years, only the New Urbanists have made extraordinary progress in recreating American cities recently. They realise that vibrant, flourishing cities require high density development incorporating shopping amenities, businesses, restaurants/cafés, cinemas, theatres, housing, parks, and mass transit--effectively, communities based on the old European city model.

[@miketarq4092]

This confirmed my perspective. Main Streets are organic and should have diversity of economics and urbanity. Many landlords participating at various levels of economics. Lifestyle centers are not so much as urban, and it's often 1 landlord catering to 1 sector of the economy. At best, it's lipstick on a pig. I would love to see a world where malls become warehouses and big box stores maintain a storefront to scale on main street, like they did long ago.

[@ClaytonCarte]

Not sure who’s your graphic designer, perhaps they are self-made, but major props! The Main Street and shopping mall street grids are spot on!

[@nickmonks9563]

There's a growing variation on this theme now, as well. In Denver we have places like "The Source" that are essentially mini, high end shopping malls that give the impression of independent craft, art, retail and food spaces...but it tends to be more in the marketing than the reality. They are definitely an improvement over the traditional shopping mall, but they often accompany high end gentrification in low end neighborhoods...read, "hip" or "hipster" redevelopment. There's even a rumor of one such construction replacing our only grocery store in what is already nearly a food desert.

[@mshara1]

Presumably such a development would include several cheap grocery stores? At least it would in Australia.

[@TheConfuzzledCat]

4:41 When he said "Downtown Silver Spring" I nearly choked

[@StarryNabz]

I was highly surprised

[@jackmanoffical]

I grew up in Redmond! Witnessing the rise and gentrification of Redmond inspired me to look into Urban Planning, and that's what I'm doing as my major. Weird seeing places I visited nearly everyday growing up analyzed in this video (I used to work in Redmond Town Center).

[@scisslehannd22]

Really well done video animations. I appreciate the level of effort that went into the small details. Cheers!

[@j18qwerty4]

North Hills in Raleigh NC is a good example of a lifestyle center. Literally started as a mall in the 60's but has transformed over the years into an upscale mixed use shopping/restaurant/park center with high rise office and apartment buildings. There's walkability, common areas that act as venues for events and music, farmers markets, and in general a huge variety of things to do. Ultimately the community still has the overall feel of a shopping mall because it is anchored around the shopping center rather than a historical main street.

[@mjt2231]

The Woodlands, north of Houston, fits this description perfectly.

[@mikeypowers67]

I just love the work you do. The conversation you encapsulate makes me feel understood. I grew up in a small town, live in an important big/medium city and travel regularly, but your videos make me feel at home. Thanks for doing this what you do!

[@marcelmoulin3335]

Once again, you have impeccably and thoughtfully created another brilliant video! Santana Row in San Jose personifies excellence in "Life Style Centres." Although I prefer charming, historic, and vibrant downtowns, I strongly believe that the creators of Santana Row perfected the formula. The only missing element is the métro station. We Europeans could learn from the Santana Row creators because we are witnessing the continued proliferation of American-style 60s' development in the way of strip malls and shopping centres. YUCK!

[@CityBeautiful]

Thanks!

[@YankeeNationalist]

I used to live in San Jose. Santana Row is awful. It is very inauthentic and overpriced. Though it is an improvement over what used to be there before Santana Row was built and it has revitalized the area.

[@FreewayBrent]

I agree with you about Santana Row, and not just because I live 30 minutes from there. I've seen a number of these lifestyle centers around the US. I feel like Santana Row is both large enough, walkable enough and features just enough unique locally owned shops, bars and restaurants to where it fits in nicely between an outdoor mall with chains, and places that you'll only find either in San Jose or locally in the Bay Area. They've done a great job with planting the trees and vegetation as well. Of course, nobody will mistake Santana Row for a real downtown center, but it's still cool.

[@Arlae_Nova]

In Europe (or at least in the Netherlands), there are alot of city centres that don't accept cars. Most of the time, lifestyle centres in Europe try to immitate those car free city centres. Maybe the American lifestyle centres should also look to those places. Most of the time, parking is in a parking garage underneath those centres. This is so the centre integrates into the city more. Actually, underground parking should be done more because it gives people a way to get into the city while also stopping the manice that is the parking lot.

[@AmbientMorality]

Step 1 is kill parking minimums. That alone already kills the possibility of a main street in lots of cities.

[@carlosplascencia1677]

2:39 I love shopping at Chonk. I get all my Chonky needs.

[@ANTSEMUT1]

Lol.

[@syscruncher]

That place looks familiar. 6:48 is Mars, PA. It has a great little Main Street (Grand Ave) area where I was able to walk to get almost all the essentials. You can even see their little silver spaceship at the bottom of the frame.

[@d_j_sims]

All hail J.C. Nichols. He's a quasi-holy figure in Kansas City, MO. Here, we worship at his feet at his internationally renowned "innovation in commercial shopping centers", the Country Club Plaza. We sacrifice entire paychecks for the right to eat at Cheesecake Factory, Buca di Bepo, and P. F. Chang's. We walk quickly past the homeless people on the sidewalks, who by law are not allowed to *move* if they're asking for money. We stroll along 'beautiful' Brush Creek, a waterway created by our lord and savior J.C. Nichols so that he could dump all the sewage from his sprawling (and racially exclusive) housing developments in a convenient location. We picture what it looked like when Brush Creek flooded the surrounding area in 1977, killing 25 people (of course, it only flooded on one side). We drive our suburbitanks back out towards our exurban home, rolling up our windows as we cross Troost Avenue, where the demographic changes sharply from majority-affluent white people to majority-poor black people (this, of course, a product of Mr. Nichols' racial covenants and blockbusting in the 20th century so that he could create "safe" and "attractive" neighborhoods around his outdoor shopping mall). Okay, I'll stop. Where's the "I'm going to pull out my hair" emoji?

[@stoplightgaming2302]

that emoji doesnt exist

[@achandler8015]

I absolutely love old traditional main streets. I love walking down them checking out the small shops and beautiful detailed architecture. It’s sad that so many have been demolished for suburbia

[@theEJRD]

Always a fan of isometric design

[@timpauwels3734]

In small towns in the Netherlands there usually is a “Main Street”, but it is often mostly pedestrianised/local traffic only and runs parallel to the main road serving the town. There can also be a smaller road connected to the main road, running around the old center, allowing car access to the rest of the town. Small parking lots (~25 spaces) are dotted around the perimeter of the old centre between the houses. My home village in Belgium is an example of how even the traditional American approach can make off-putting town centres. It grew haphazardly when a hospital was built there after the war, with “Main street” as the main traffic artery. It isn’t very welcoming for strolling through and especially bad during rush hour if you enjoy breathing.

[@etou1146]

"I feel uncomfortable filming here." Just tell them you are recording a review for your social media audience. Not a lie, they will roll out the red carpet for you and get everything for free 😁

[@onetwothreeabc]

Yeah, I don't quite understand his psychology...

[@danielbishop1863]

Sometimes people do get hassled by the property's management for filming a video.

[@thefelonattorney]

The Fountains in lovely Roseville California where he filmed that wouldn’t care. I would be worried filming there too. It isn’t a street just part of a huge open air mall

[@kickliquid]

There is just something magical about main streets. The hustle of bustle of people with a purpose who aren't strictly consumers. Public property to congregate and to share ideas and cultures. Mom and Pop shops that support local economies and small businesses.

[@citiesskyscrapers4561]

Great video!

[@CityBeautiful]

Thanks!

[@LE-kf4ql]

In my city (Valletta, Malta - Europe), we go shopping on foot (if in Valletta). Residents outside of Valletta, park outside of our city and walk inside. I just find this strange, I'm used to the Maltese (or better - Valletta) way of life - living in a 450-year-old city.

[@elenapopovic2527]

Yup. A good city is an old-world style one. Everytime I go to Belgrade, Serbia I feel freer and better, while every time I come back to Calgary, Canada I feel imprisoned by the american style urban planning.

[@LE-kf4ql]

@@elenapopovic2527 That's it

[@Riggzilla]

You make such amazing videos. I wish I had the money to support you on patreon. One day!

[@CityBeautiful]

Don't worry about it. Thanks for watching!

[@MrCrunch808]

Redmond is a cool town. Hopefully, my town of Sammamish, just 10 miles away from Redmond, can take some notes and remove some strip malls and add more of the main street that allows for foot traffic as the only form of transportation.

[@melissaroscher1080]

Thanks for mentioning JC Nichols. From a Kansas city gal.

[@CityBeautiful]

I just made that up -- it was meant to be a joke about JC Penney. But what a happy coincidence!

[@semiramisbonaparte1627]

@@CityBeautiful lol KC here too and I definitely thought you meant THEE "JC Nichols" hahaha

[@nicolaidorian5848]

I never knew I was that interested in urban planning or whatever this guy's channel is called. But now I'm hooked.

[@MagnesiumPC]

You can always do what Carmel, Indiana did and level your main street and turn it into a life style center.

[@indyxpbullion2422]

Brownsburg, IN just opened their lifestyle center. It has less than 10% occupancy 🤦‍♂️

[@IbizanHound2]

Your work keeps getting better and better! I loved the moment you showed the two extremes of the spectrum and placed the Lifestyle Centers on there for us to better understand! Also at 7:26 the phrase "grow organically"! I keep having that thought after living in Europe and noticing that most of Europe's cities have been grown so much and so fast that they all seem to opt for the 'projects' type buildings to house their citizens. Everything seems to be artificial and not organically grown at all! No part of the city (the newer parts I mean not historical centers obviously) feels like it naturally evolved and formed by its people that used to live there... I often compare this artificial feeling modern cities give me, as the difference between walking into an amazing family tavern where the food is home made and the owner may pass by your table to talk with you, compared to walking into a fast food restaurant. I would love one day to prepare a case for you of where I grew up here in Athens, Greece as I find it has the perfect balance of mixed zones (multi story buildings, single homes, small shops, restaurants, cafes, schools) and it has some important architectural features unique to the Balkans that I haven't seen anywhere else in the world that one at first glance might not take them into account, but I find they add up to the good mood and psychology of the citizens!. I didn't appreciate what we have here until I traveled around and saw how easy it is people's desire to live in their favorite city, to ruin that city by over populating it. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us!

[@CityBeautiful]

Thanks so much!

[@IbizanHound2]

@@CityBeautiful Sorry for the wall of text I sent earlier by the way : ) Its just that I feel so passionate about urban planning as I see how most people around the planet don't actually realize or don't seem to care about living in ugly dysfunctional cities. I guess its not easy to realize it when you have nothing to compare it against.

[@Icestone5656]

EW road lanes are so wide in the us

[@CityBeautiful]

Ugh tell me about it.

[@mshara1]

The generous spirit of Americans, is probably an underappreciated non-economic factor in the decline of urban areas. Australia loves car-centric, suburban mall living to a greater degree than the US, yet lacks windswept and decrepit main streets. Australians are more stingy than Americans, and thats probably what saved us. Councils don't want to pay for wide lanes, shop-owners don't want to pay for off-street parking lots and governments avoided paying for motorways. We never had the gigantic streets and parking lots which make slightly under performing areas feel like a ghost town.

[@3seven5seven1nine9]

I'm sorry you guys seem to hate.. driving room?

[@CoolioXXX52]

???

[@AmbientMorality]

@@3seven5seven1nine9 Makes cars drive faster and therefore greatly lowers pedestrian-cyclist safety

[@fernbedek6302]

Closed malls are much better when you live in Canada and it’s snowy or slushy 6 months of the year. Just attach them to transit, as Canada tends to do. Also adding condo towers more and more.

[@barvdw]

There's something to say for that. Many older European cities also have built over their Main Street pavements, to give some shelter to the ambling shoppers against hot sunshine and cold rain, and to increase living space as well, of course. And where they haven't, many shops have canopies in front of them.

[@mysteriousDSF]

Great video, subscribed! Yes it's true, nowadays there's no need for malls anymore. Today's demand is a place where hipsters can hang out and take hipstery insta posts. :D

[@alexwilliamsfilm]

I live in Redmond, WA. I can confirm that Redmond town center is a ghost town most of the time. Some of the big box retailers, like Macy's, have left and the rest of the shops are empty most of the time. They are building up Cleveland Street, which is about a block away, that has a Main St. feel, but still a little manufactured.

[@genericyoutubeaccount579]

"This street right here is private." *Anarcho-Capitalism intensifies*

[@kefsound]

Pure soulless distopia.

[@SagaciousSilence]

It’s literally a mall without a roof. Seattle is a city which has a major downtown and then many “urban villages” outside of downtown in its dozens of neighborhoods which each have their own Main Street full of apartments and businesses.

[@Lemanic89]

Lifestyle Centers seems to take cues from Disneyland.

[@MaxMcAdams]

southwest florida here, place is tiled with these like someone was trying to make a visualization for this video "outdoor hallways" are a common design motif because of the cost of keeping any space cool and there's no urban context for them to fit into so they're a sensible option for the area they're all bad in some hard-to-define way except for the outlet malls

[@scotttaylor5928]

“J.C. Nickels” “Spears”

[@deu8894]

nice video. Finding the right balance between the three types of shopping experience is key to designing a city people really want to visit/reside/work in

[@PachinkoMedia]

Malls sold things at "discount prices?" I don't know what malls you went to...

[@Suite_annamite]

Yeah, I would've thought the "discount prices" were usually from the outlet or factory locations.

[@jopdispa1134]

Where I live there is a 15th to 19th century historic town centre containing a multitude of historical buildings, monument, and streets that were once the setting of several of the greatest historical events in the history of my country. But hey, I don't live in North America. Our 'main street' is famous because it is were our 16th century declaration of independence was signed and a close to civil war rivalry was settled. But it also has a McDonald's.

[@SergioLongoni]

Here in northern italy lifestyle center are just becoming a thing. In this iteration there are more of an open Shopping Center with hip forniture, then a real city center mockup. Also the new traditional Shopping Mall are reinventing them self to be cooler and to provide some sort of "experience"

[@Zach_Bloomquist]

You make excellent content, that is both informative, fun and engaging. This is very important as it allows you to get our attention and teach at the same time. I always enjoy your vids. Maybe it the inner SimCity planner in me but I find your content fascinating and needed in a time when cities and infrastructure are in a time of flux and in need of change. Keep up the good work.

[@picksey4736]

when i clicked on this video i did not expect to be learning about a town i live 30 minutes from! this was very cool, i had never really looked at the redmond town center as a downtown replacement, i always saw it as another take on the "outdoor mall" thing like alderwood mall's outdoor area.

[@MoetChandonHollywoodlifestyles]

Living in Chicago, nothing beats urban sprawls, specialty shops, scenic walks, and atmosphere going down Michigan Avenue or State Street especially around Christmas time.

[@ManuelGonzalezDE]

Just wanted to tell you: I love your videos! Always exited about the new ones. Keep up the great work :-)

[@ChicagoGeographer]

Just wanted to say that your videos are fantastic. Great visuals, informative, and to the point. Keep up the great work!