Can You Do Macro Photography with a LED-light?

[@MicaelWidell]

Thanks for watching! Also find me in these places: 💌 newsletter: mwroll.com 🌄 instagram: instagram.com/mwroll 🎖patreon: patreon.com/micaelwidell 🐦 twitter: twitter.com/micaelwidell 💬 discord: bit.ly/widelldiscord macro lens buying guide: lensguide.micaelwidell.com

[@stephenbarlow2493]

For stills photography, a flash makes handheld macro photography possible, because the burst of the flash is very brief, acting like a virtual high speed shutter. So the synch speed may only be 1/200th of a second, but the burst of the flash may be 1/10000th of a second or faster, making this the effective shutter speed (not the shutter speed set on the camera), if flash is the predominate source of light i.e. full flash photography. To get sharp handheld macro photos with a continuous light source, you are going to need a minimum of 1/1000th of a second shutter speed or likely far faster to get consistently sharp photos, because with a continuous light, it is the shutter speed on the camera which controls the freezing effect, as a continuous light source has no freezing ability as it is continuous throughout the whole exposure. The actual shutter speed needed for consistently sharp photos, will depend on magnification. So to get a fast enough shutter speed, you are going to need either an incredibly bright continuous light, or a very high ISO. For a portable rest, I would recommend some sort of stick, it can be a garden cane, a walking pole, or a monopod, not used as a monopod, but fully extended. Then grip the pole with your left hand, just below where you want your camera, then rest the end of the lens on your left hand gripping the stick and push rubber bit of the viewfinder onto your eyebrow. This can create incredible stability with practise. The advantage of this approach is you can rapidly adjust the height, by just sliding your hand gripping the stick up or down. Also, you can fine tune the distance for say stacking, by simply tilting the stick backwards or forwards. A monopod used conventionally, isn't very practical for macro photography, due to how awkward it is to adjust the height. Yet with the stick, you can go from eye level, to just above the ground in seconds. Successful macro photography relies on finding big concentrations of insects, so when you fail in one approach, you can find something else nearby. Unfortunately, insects are rapidly declining, and I'm struggling to find the insect numbers I used to find, which is why I haven't been doing so much macro photography lately.

[@ypaulbrown]

great information Stephen, actually the flash equivalent shutter speed can be up to 1/50,000 of a second in small burst flash. I use a ttl flash for digitizing my transparencies and negatives using a Rodenstock APO 80mm f4 enlarger lens for fantastic results, digitizing with this set up, the silver crystals in black and white negatives do not diffract light as they do with a scanner causing the appearance of really nasty grain.....the other side effect of digitizing like this , is I can scan over 200 images an hour......or more.....best regards, Paul in Florida, USA

[@diaryofcreation582]

One thing I like do in Macro Video is shoot at a higher frame Rate. 120-240fps and then slow it down. It smooths everything out and brings movements more down to scale, if you know what I mean 😄

[@davidgatzen1543]

The LED light is more useful for macro video than macro photography. I think you can use the LED light for macro photography if you are using a tripod in a studio, and you are shooting a subject that does not move like flowers, because then you can use a low shutter speed. I think you can shoot an insect using an LED light outside, if you use a tripod, the insect is not moving, and the insect is on a steady object like a rock or a tree. If the insect is on a flower, you may be able to use something like an umbrella, to block the wind, so that the flower does not move too much. It does not take much wind to move a flower or a leaf. In general, I think a flash is better for photographing insects outside. One advantage of using a LED light for macro photography, is that you have more light for focusing, but a flash's high speed and power is a bigger advantage for shooting moving insects outside.

[@rossk7927]

Ticks are a problem in my area too, and I wondered why they don't transfer infection until they've fed for hours so I looked into it. It turns out the delay is because the bacteria lives in the blood sack and when the tick starts feeding the bacteria begins to migrate to the ticks saliva glands so they can enter the host and that process is what can take many hours.

[@MicaelWidell]

Yeah I had like 25 ticks in my life but never got sick. I think it is due to me finding them and removing them quickly every time.

[@gordonmiles9995]

I use an "L" bracket rather than the hotshoe. It gets the arm out of your face and doesn't interfere with focusing. It works for me

[@davidchilton2574]

What would be ideal for you Miceal, is a pair of gaitors. I use them over here all the time (Australia), in the scrub and long grass, incase of snakes. But they are also great for ticks and grass-burrs. Ticks, especially if you spray a bit of repellent around the top. And also, those woolen sleeve things they put on car seatbelts, are cheap, but make a good neck buffer from the camers strap. Cheers.

[@davegibson2478]

Hi Micael, for video macro I suggest using a gimbal for getting steady vids. Great video, many thanks.

[@holdmylenscap7241]

Hi Micael, great video as usual but you should raise the ISO to 640 instead of 400 as you would get better image quality as that's the second ISO base. I use LED lights for hand held macro shots. One tip: instead of using a battery on the LED use a dummy battery and have a powerbank in your pocket :) Saves a lot of weight on the camera. Also have a look at this LED light: Falcon Eyes RX-8T I find this for macro pretty usable.

[@yogi6muhammad]

what LED do you use?

[@holdmylenscap7241]

@@yogi6muhammad The Falcon Eyes that I mentioned. It's pretty bright and you can shape it to your needs

[@geekinthegarden3927]

Just found this as I'm gathering the bits to get a macro rig up and running. I'm hoping to get a bit of practice in before spring so that I can have macro B roll in my gardening vids. Instead of a magic arm, you could have tried a camera top handle on the hot shoe mount putting it out over the lens and inserted the mount for the light into the end of the handle. It would have been more rigid than the magic arm (I find that they keep moving about and unscrewing themselves at the least convenient time). It struck me that yes, that is a powerful light, but how much of the light generated actually lands on the subject rather than spilling over to the leaves, other flowers, branches, your hand, etc? If only 10% of the light emitted is actually hitting the target area then would having several smaller, less powerful lights all pointing towards the subject result in more light actually hitting it? Three smaller lights could be aimed from the top, left and right sides. I'm actually just waiting for some Velcro straps to arrive with a cold shoe mount on so that I can strap the light straight onto the lens hood so it is as close as possible. If it works, it will also mean that I just slip the light into and out of the cold shoe. I should be able to get the flash into it as well and that way half the distance from the flash to the subject which will quadruple to light hitting it. I think that I might be able to have 3 cold shoes on the end - it depends on the weight of the lights, but mine isn't as large as yours and I have 2 light flashguns, so use the panel for a modelling light and then the flash for the photos. I need the hot shoe for the wireless flash controller. Failing that I might have to look at some 15mm rod solution.

[@visceraljourney]

Things that might help a lot for macro videography: - shooting at a slow framerate - 60 or 120 fps. Reduces the shake and gives you more frames in focus. And human eye is not really used to how insects move, so it will often percieve slowed down video like a real time one. - using monopod. It takes too much time to set up a tripod and the insect will probably get away. Monopod is much better at this. - holding your camera with TWO hands is essential, otherwise your just wont be able to minimize the shakeness - making your camera more heavy, preferably adding a cage, extra handle, external monitor, etc. The heavier your camera, the more stable it is - dont forget to stab it in post, always adds some extra stability - just go for lesser magnification I've been trying to shoot macro video this way, mostly hand held (without monopod, but I will try to incorporate it more in my future shots), you can check the quality of the final video here for example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHObY4mNbLqjr6s&ab_channel=EricElmer

[@guybob548]

That first, first person trail walking shots really brought the immersion up for me like i was walking the trail too. With the birds and forest sounds very relaxing! Also I need some of those articulating arms.

[@whosthebrightestmonkeyinth348]

Yeah you can. I do with a cheap Neewer adjustable power light that you can put soft gels on!

[@paulstickley4819]

The main reason I use flash for insect photography is because of the short flash duration. My flash fires around 1/4000 sec or faster and I setup the camera to expose the subject with mainly light from the flash. Shooting this way means subject movement and hand movement become unimportant because the image is captured so fast. Video is another ball game all together. I do use constant light for static shots and maybe also use a tripod.

[@escutus]

What flash do you use? I have been considering a fast flash for the very same reason.

[@paulstickley4819]

@@escutus Now I use a Godox AD200 which is very large. I also have the camera in a cage to mount the flash. Before this I used the Godox v860II which was very good. The hard bit is getting a strong soft light on the subject, which is where the diffuser and positioning of the flash are important.

[@escutus]

@@paulstickley4819 thank you.

[@MicaelWidell]

Pretty much every flash on the market will be fast enough if you use it at lower strengths such as 1/8 or 1/16.

[@HUNrobar]

Great comments here! I'd like to add that it's probably more ideal to find situations where you can photo stack anyways (subject not moving, even for just a few seconds). This way, with a camera having built in focus bracketing like your new olympus + 60mm macro, you can use wider aperture and concentrate on keeping the body as still as possible, no need to bother with moving around for focusing. Also, the smaller sensor means that you can keep magnification relatively low, which helps as well. For shutter speeds I think you need to go much higher in most situations, treat it like wildlife photography and push as high as possible. It's probably best to avoid super shiny subjects or very dark environments, the rectangular reflection is not so nice and a front diffusion might cut out too much light. Mounting the led to the tripod thread at the bottom should give you better stability, using a bracket or even some arca swiss plates have extra mounting points. Using support helps a lot with video. Higher shutter speed + fps should be pretty helpful for getting clear footage, 1/60 gets pretty blurry if you try to stabilize shaky macro video.. Davinci resolve can stabilize footage quite well, you can also track any adjustments easily to the subject, I highly recommend it. I'll experiment again with led macro, it's definitely possible to make decent video outside, sliders are worth trying too. Sadly my GX80 camera only focus bracket without flash (for real panasonic, why??) but I don't have the 60mm macro :(

[@dougsmit1]

While the title got my hopes up that you were doing 'photography' the video still really emphasized videography which is necessary for KZbinrs but not what I was wanting. I do agree that those articulating arms are not good and hard to use. I get better results from mounting from a 'frame' fashioned from a piece of light weight hardwood which attaches to the bottom of the camera reducing strain on the hotshoe. The idea is to find a rounded branch and cut away the parts that are not needed. My favorite is Crepe Mytrle which won't grow as far north as you are but I'm sure Sweden has wood that works similarly. One thing you really missed covering is whether there was any effect on the behavior of your insects by approaching them with a huge and bright light. Did they move away faster or were they less aware of your presence than when you are a huge shadow when using flash? Your video convinced me that I will continue shooting stills with flash. I believe the short answer here is "No!"

[@MicaelWidell]

For the most part, the insects didn't seem to care about the light. Some ants seemed more skiddish than usual, though.

[@fredriksvard2603]

Define macro? I shoot closeups of products with leds.

[@IanWilkinson]

Thanks for experimenting with an LED light - I think I'll stick to flash though. By the way @ 03:55 we call these, crane flies :)

[@MicaelWidell]

Thank you for the id!

[@ProudNothing]

Thanks for the video!! I was wondering this too, would love to have the continuous light, but I love the way the flash makes them pop. For video the led is a must!

[@G.CurtFiedler]

Interesting stuff. Not sure you really need a huge light. Ulanzi make several smaller LED lights you can mount in different ways. I used the ring that attaches to the front of the lens to hold small strobes (from Olympus STF8) on cold shoe mounts. You only need a small arm or ball mount. Laowa lenses are nice, but you might get better shots with a lens with Image stabilization built in (or a camera with better IS in the body). Not sure what your Sony body has.

[@MicaelWidell]

Image stabilization doesn't help much at high magnifications - I have a separate video where I show this. The reason I picked a big light is I knew a lot of light would be required to get decent image quality without too much noise - still, as you see in the video, it was not really bright enough for still photos.

[@charlesmoeller-vu9nq]

Thank you for sharing ..... Macro is awesome and the subject doesnt sue if they are unhappy.

[@naj0rk]

Though the cheap articulating arms have their place, I am very glad I upgraded beyond the low-end to something more sturdy and reliable. E-image has some (like EI-A47) that use 15mm rod clamps, so the arm isn't directly screwed on. Otherwise the arm is frequently getting loose, like we see in this video where he uses a hand to keep the light from swimming away.

[@d.s1014]

I prefer a smaller and lighter flash light such as Godox TT 350.

[@SinaFarhat]

Fint! Ha en fin vecka!

[@kashyapraval5431]

Olympus has this restriction of 1/50 (1/100 in OM1) shutter speed when using bracketing with flash. This makes frames blurry if ambient light is present! Was wondering if I could turn off the flash and use continuous lighting. Might need to have 2 or 3 of those!

[@Bo_Hazem]

I bought a pair of smaller LED lights rated at around 1400 lux/0.5m with diffusion. This one is rated at 5500 lux/0.5m (without diffusion though)!! I should get one. I bought lots of 15mm rods and connections with baseplate to have them rock-solid stabled using the very long Laowa 24mm probe lens or Laowa 25mm 2.5-5x for biting midges which are like 1-3mm! Seems like I would need to buy this one. Main goal is video, and I won't mind pushing ISO up to 12,800 if needed with a7S III in S-Cinetone instead of S-Log3 to have maximum luminance gain instead of maximum dynamic range that won't be a real concern here. 60-120fps slowed down to 24fps should do the magic.

[@az09az0909az]

vedo che anchetu hai qualche problema nel mantenere il soggetto a fuoco,basta un poco di aria x spostare i fili di erba e le foglie,io uso la lumix g9 con tubi di prolunga,obbiettivo il lumix 45-200 e anello da 16mm,che mi permette di rimanere un poco più distante,evitare cosi la mia ombra e anche pose scomode,a 69 anni viene abastanza complicato,poi io niente manuale,che c'è la fa?in apertura e 256punti messa a fuoco in continuo

[@crismi144]

INCREDIBIBLE

[@abitofaviation]

Thanks, nice overview. Looking for light enhancement for my R7 + RF 100mm

[@Wuuser]

Good inspiration - I used smaller arm to check how my Aputure AL-MX would work - seems to be similar enought, will give it a try later on :) Benefit compared to F7 might be smaller weight and built in battery, but it's smaller in size, so not so diffused.

[@pvetesnik]

Dude you are using ISO 400 on fullframe camera that is good :) I think the led would work if you would increase your ISO and Shutterspeed :) you should not be so concerned about ISO with that kind of beast!

[@bamsemh1]

Of course. The question though is if it will be diffused well enough, and if the object will let you go close enough 😅 I'm still just using flash and diy Pringles tube diffuser 💪

[@3DThrills]

I only use continuous lighting. I'm building a macro light cave with six 23 watt LEDs and dual diffusion. Flash gives great results but I don't enjoy the process. Did you try a slow motion video yet? You might need a tripod to get the smoothest video.

[@MicaelWidell]

I didn't do a lot of macro video, I focus mostly on photos

[@OrcHead]

Could you do a video about marco with aquariums?

[@MicaelWidell]

Perhaps someday

[@KruellNationGaming]

I have found a shutter at 1000 to 2000 is better, to compensate for camera shake and subject movement. I have not tried L.E.D. but direct sunlight.

[@sharvo6]

You don't mention what camera pack you use on any of your sites. Which one is it? I like the side entry.

[@MicaelWidell]

Please see this video, it has a section about the backpack: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5y4qGCQq66HfKs

[@sharvo6]

@@MicaelWidell thx!

[@southernexposure123]

You did good. Macro in the wind is hard to do.

[@Blaiwnez]

LED is an interesting thought, but sadly too weak for photography. I like the footage of the larvae! Exciting and good sharpness.

[@fredriksvard2603]

Hm... I'm looking for led:s with a lower lowest brightness setting.

[@negraof]

The big light with arm is good for laowa 15mm f/4 macro? Thank you

[@MicaelWidell]

I would recommend a flash for macro photography

[@wowbaggert.5593]

came to the same conclusion after trying to make photos with 2 beamo lights from joby, it works if you dont magnify to much but its annoying to adjust them all the time etc. Iam gonna stick to a flash for pictures, the LED's work great for video though

[@eurika391]

Hi Miceal. Love your videos as I do a lot of Macro photography. Would all that weight not damage the flash mount. The farther the light is from anchor point which is the flash mount the weight will be the weight of the led light + the weight of the articulated arm X by the distance from the anchor point which in this case would be the flash mount. So the actual load on the mount would be far greater than just the weight of theb led light.

[@MicaelWidell]

I never noticed any issues with damage to the flash mount. It is probably built to handle some strain. I have put heavier things on there for sure 😄 If you are worried you can get an L-bracket for the camera and mount the arm there instead.

[@eurika391]

Hi Miceal, thanks for your reply. Good to know that you have not had any problems with the mount. Gives me the confidence to try out some other options than diffusers with a speed light.

[@KlausSN]

Perhaps you should try something which is steady, like a beehive and use a tripod too.

[@mareksykora3891]

personally has not good results with led light... not powerful enough for f/11 aperture... external speedlite is perfect for me, no problem to take umbrella with in into forest

[@ocistim.si123]

I don't understand what is the weakness of this arm, since it is the only way to illuminate insects from above. The flash, as you say, is more useful, but it does not allow lighting from above. Then you could mount the LED light on the hot shoe and there would be no problems with your hand. Isn't that right? Many thanks for this useful video anyway.

[@MicaelWidell]

With a flash you use a diffuser, which makes the light come from a perfect angle. The problem with a LED light is it is too weak, and too heavy, as I tried to explain in this video.

[@rolandrickphotography]

Thanks for testing that 🙌. Do the Sony cameras have “built in” (the firmware) focus bracketing? A7’s, A9’s, A1?

[@paddyola1]

thatsa crane fly

[@ambientograph1]

Tjena Micael! Hade du stabiliseringen på när du filmade? Jag tror att typ en Panasonic GH5/GH6 (som har otroligt bra dubbel bildstabilisering med Panasonic-objektiv) skulle funka bättre när det gäller att filma macro. Och köra allt på 4k60p/120p (minst 1/125 shutter speed som gör ytterligare stabilisering i post bättre) så kan man också croppa in till HD. Jag har inte testat mycket macro själv, men jag skulle gissa att den lösningen skulle funka bäst om man ska köra handhållet, och så får man leva med inte så stor förstoring, för det blir svårt med skärpedjupet som du säger... Har du testat något sånt?

[@MicaelWidell]

Ja jag använde stabiliseringen. Dock har den begränsad effekt på dessa höga förstoringsgrader, men den gör definitivt skillnad. Ett tips är att ställa in stabiliseringen på 150mm objektiv eller liknande, eftersom skakningarna är mycket större i macro.

[@bens9599]

You need a camera with insect eye autofocus tracking. 😜

[@ohmimprovement5767]

Why not just say what the lumen rating is? I use speed lights, strobe lights and static lighting (LED) but not on the field. 3k lumens would be impressive if that's what the led panel you're using is.

[@MicaelWidell]

I cannot find the lumen rating anywhere

[@ohmimprovement5767]

@@MicaelWidell that's very strange they didn't list that 😕 Its usually an important factor lol

[@TangerineTux]

Short of a lumen rating, there is this: “0.3m: ≥14000 Lux 0.5m: ≥5500 Lux 1m: ≥1500 Lux 2m: ≥400 Lux 3m: ≥180 Lux”

[@pedzsan]

I see on the photography site that macro light rings exist. These are not flash rings but LED continuous light rings. Prices are in the $75 range. I'm thinking about buying one and trying it. Have you seen them? Have you played with one or know anyone who has?

[@MicaelWidell]

I haven't tried them. I would not recommend ring lights - I don't think they give nice results. Looks to clinical.

[@Lon1an]

Interesting. I would love to see you develop your macro video if you plan to keep going that way. :)

[@paulcollingridge8387]

The "giant mosquito" is a Crane-Fly (Tipula sp) and the larvae are Bird-Cherry Ermine Moth

[@MicaelWidell]

Thank you :)

[@daniel-stefan]

nice video, thank you

[@PsychoSmart]

Strap link doesn't work anymore

[@MicaelWidell]

Thank you. I will update it. In the meantime please just visit peak designs webpage and look for leash :)

[@puffingtonsmythe8690]

Good idea to never wear shorts going through grass or plants in the summer. I always wear trousers because of the risk of ticks etc.

[@MicaelWidell]

Depends on the area. I have noticed that I never ever get ticks in the area close to my house. But I am a lot more careful in other places, and I have TBE vaccine.

[@realjax]

Not sure if it is such a good idea to put that much stress on the hot shoe of your camera... I think it is a better idea to have it sit on an external shoe.

[@j.guerrero6643]

I have this method for taking in camera stacking shots with Olympus system. It takes some 15 shots changing the focus automatically in less than a second so I cannot use a flash . In this way, it’s possible to capture near static subjects easily.

[@fredriksvard2603]

Obvious question, but - raise iso?

[@MicaelWidell]

As I explained in the video, the shots at ISO 400 were increased by 2 stops in lightroom, which means ISO 1600. Then I think I would probably have needed 1-2 stops faster shutter speed, which means ISO 6400. Even with the A7III sensor which is one of the best on the market, that would not make the photos pretty compared to just using a lightweight flash and shooting at ISO 100.

[@fredriksvard2603]

@@MicaelWidell Ok. I shoot at iso 6400 in low light all the time with my S5 and i have no issues with noise. Sometimes i use leds set to low brightness, or the lighting will be harsh. Raising exposure in post doesn't work in my use case, i end up with grain and bad colors.

[@j8rtUfh3evz]

Giant mosquito is a crane fly?

[@NaihanchinKempo]

Everytime I see vids like this I never see monopod/tripods.. A light monopod wouldbe in some cases works well

[@OlegRokach]

Thank You, Micael! Coincidence - actually I saw this morning: "Macro lighting: LED Vs flash - What's the difference and which is best" ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/imWUi2irqt5_qs0)

[@MicaelWidell]

Interesting, I'll check that video out

[@zedpassway4140]

Pronounced L-E-D not led. Maybe you need 1) a camera that shoots at ISO 4000 without noise, 2) Topaz for noise reduction. I shoot at 1/2000 sec, ISO 6400, and F20. Using Sun and LED works great. I stopped using flash.

[@rakeshnambiar1897]

That is a Phantom FLY. The big mosquito

[@CandidTechTV]

Feel like the title should be "macro videography" instead

[@roybixby6135]

LED lights dont seem nearly powerful enough for sharp stills. At least they help autofocus and are helpful for video...🦘