Can you heat a house with solar PV panels and a baseboard heater?? Watch to find out

[@SolarProjectsSweden]

A nice and simple project. Let's do some Ohms law on it. Baseboard heater: 220V 750W 1 Solar panel: 34,17V 7A 6 panels in series: 205V 7A AC: 750 Watt / 220 Volt = 3,4 Ampere. 220 Volt / 3,4 Ampere = 64,7 Ohms. DC: 205 Volt / 64,7 Ohms = 3,17 Ampere. 205 Volt x 3,17 Ampere = 650 Watt. Good numbers and 650 watts of heat is not bad using direct DC from solar. However, for someone with little to none experience of electricity, 205 Volts DC could be lethal + the components in AC appliances are'nt made for DC. It can easily burn the thermostat and the built-in switches in the heater. If something goes wrong with 205 Volts DC, you'll get an ARC looking like lightning inside your house. I wouldn't even touch the possitive and the negative wires at the same time with 205 Volts passing through. My setup should look like: 2 strings of 2 panels in series in each string and then connect the 2 strings in parallel. 2 panels in series: 34,17 Volt + 34,17 Volt = 68,34 Volt 7 Ampere 2 strings in parallel: 68,34 Volt 7A+7A = 14 Ampere Since the heater contains resistance wire, you'll have to lower the resistance (Ohms) so it can run on lower voltage. Measure the Ohms with a multimeter and cut the wire at... 650 Watt / 68 Volt = 9,56 Ampere. 68 Volt / 9,56 Ampere = 7 Ohms. So 7 Ohms instead of 64,7 Ohms. Now the heater produces the same heat, 650 Watts, but it's alot safer for people and the house if or when something goes wrong. But to be honest, it's still not safe and should only be operated during supervision. I'm sorry for hi-jacking your comment section, but there's a lot of gaps in the knowledge around solar and if this information can spare one life or save a house from burning down, then I've done something good. Keep up the good work with your interesting videos. I'm looking forward to the next.

[@veggitarianredneck]

So quick question, and please excuse my ignorance here, but what makes the DC current more dangerous than AC?

[@SolarProjectsSweden]

​@@veggitarianredneckThe DC arc is the difference. Every time you disconnect DC you'll get an arc, a little lightning, because the DC circuit struggles to always be running. Low voltage = small arc, High voltage = bigger arc. An entire DC setup is a safe system, because every switch and component that breaks the current have built in arc protection. An AC switch or component is not built to catch the arc, so in worst case the DC system will continue to work even if you switch it off because the arc is still making the connection. If we make an example with your heater running on AC: There is an on/off switch, a thermostat that controls the heat, probably a built in overheating switch and if the heater is a stand-alone model it'll probably have a tip over switch that will break the current if it fells over. So, 4 switches of some kind to make the heater safe to use and with AC current it's 99,9% safe. In worst case DC scenario, the arc can make a bridge over these 4 switches and the disaster is done. You cannot thrust any AC appliance connected to DC, but you can easily change the components and resistance to make them safe. 650 Watts of heating 4-8 hours on a sunny day is not much to be happy about if it burns down your house.

[@veggitarianredneck]

Mmm, I see your point. It might be prudent for me to make an updated video of the dangers of DC current and using it in this scenario. But to be clear the system I have is literally a direct path from my solar to my heater. It has no thermostat or switch other than a disconnect at the source that I turn off during the summer months. So my system should be safe from the dreaded dc ark. Thank you for your knowledge🙂

[@SolarProjectsSweden]

@@veggitarianredneck If the panels are connected straight to the resistance wire without any AC switches in between, then you're right. Your system is safe. But, I'm still raising my eyebrows a little bit about the 205 Volts and I would love if you made a video about high voltage DC and the dangers behind it. As soon as you exceed 60 Volts, you'll have to start thinking about the safety or else one little mistake can be your last. You would never see someone change an electrical outlet running on 220V AC without cutting the power and measure it twice to ensure the power is of before the screwdriver comes along. This respect for electrical current doesn' t exist for DC. I'm looking at videos on KZbin everyday at people that's connecting panels with cables running everywhere at the same time as the panel/panels are "live" in the sun and creates current. If you would ask 10 of your friends how they turn off their solar array, I'll bet all 10 says; With the switch, and none of them will respond with the correct answer; Cover the panel. Knowledge isn't heavy to carry, so I'll be the first to give you a Thumbs up if you release a video on DC safety 👍

[@twoweary]

@@SolarProjectsSwedenAnything disconnected ( or connected )while it’s running will arc, ac or dc.

[@heroesandzeros7802]

Tips: Working with DC voltage more than 12V-24V can kill someone very quickly. 205VDC is considered as high DC voltage. DC does not let go. You needed at least a 10AWG wire to run that many amps DC that distance, an 8AWG would be better. What was the initial wattage of the heater at 240VAC? DC is calculated differently using Ohm's Law. Most baseboard heaters have a power rating of 500W-2000W. That would be 2.43A to 9.75A at 205VDC. Use the correct type of crimpers for the MC4 connectors. If you have that many panels, you will need the correct crimpers to prevent constant pull-outs.

[@davidnichols6938]

Very creative I have been thinking of doing this with a water heater element to help heat my radiant floor heating

[@opera5714]

See my videos on heating water.

[@SpinDizzy-fr8bc]

I like how you went DC on this project. Another power hog is your hot water heater. If its electric you could try the same thing with a circulating loop and a dc heating element. Have the element heat water from tank and then circulate it back in. Won't be a replacement but could bring the AC service down during the day. You seem handy and I bet you have an old tank in that scrap heap. Doable?

[@timothyfirth4809]

Thank you for this thought

[@veggitarianredneck]

Yes, I actually had a water heater hooked up to my charge controller on dump mode. On average in the summer time I was able to get a fully hot tank, 50 gallons, in two days. If careful we had hot water all summer long

[@mrglasecki]

* you should make an advisory at the beginning of the video, >50vdc is deadly, enjoyed the video 😎

[@twoweary]

Nice project. Don’t forget to install a ground to the heater and to your disconnect ( metal box). If they were to become energized ( shorted) somehow your fuses wouldn’t trip because the current isn’t going anywhere, it will just put voltage on the metal parts. Your gas pipe should also be grounded already, so a short wire down to the gas pipe will do the trick. I don’t have much experience with solar but I am an electrician, and grounding metal parts in almost all scenarios is crucial.

[@veggitarianredneck]

Thank you, I'll take your advice

[@timothyfirth4809]

You are an inspiration sir, I'm low income and been trying to find ways to warm up a single bedroom in California this looks like it might be it as we get sunshine year round so something to run in the daytime hours would be incredible.

[@veggitarianredneck]

Thank you, glad it was informative.

[@timothyfirth4809]

@@veggitarianredneck I've also seen where you can get solar heating element for regular electric hot water heaters from 150 watt on up to heat water using solar power

[@veggitarianredneck]

@@timothyfirth4809 yes I have two 600 watt elements that run on 24 volts in my water heater now hooked to a dump controller

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

It would take a tremendous amount of solar panels to heat even a small home with resistance heaters. Your best bet is to purchase a 22 seer or above mini split heat pump. They will put out 3 to 5 times more energy than you put into them. Of course you’re going to spend anywhere from $1500 to $3000 on a good diy system. You need about 50% more PV array in the wintertime as you do in the summer If you assist with a wood burner below 30F.

[@koborkutya7338]

but then he needs an inverter with stabilized, pure sine wave output and probably at least a small battery to avoid fluctuations. Heat pumps are more delicate. It makes all the sense in the world if he needs AC and can get an inverter but for simplicity and speed nothing beats this setup.

[@offgridwanabe]

They make mini splits now with solar direct MC4 connectors right on the outside unit. @@koborkutya7338

[@offgridwanabe]

@@koborkutya7338 They also make Heat pumps (mini split) with direct solar panel connection right from the factory

[@bernardcharlesworth9860]

I agree to take special care with d.c as it doesn't let go

[@LemmyAuditYou]

thanks for the video, I believe we all will need to know this type of stuff soon

[@joshuacreek9632]

I did that exact same thing for this coming season everything is so expensive

[@veggitarianredneck]

How's yours working so far?

[@joshuacreek9632]

It’s working amazingly

[@heroesandzeros7802]

It does take a lot of solar panels to do anything for heavy loads.

[@alveygardens]

I have an off grid shed I need to heat. Only need to keep it at 40 degrees. I was thinking an aluminum can thermal panel w solar fan. And a backup propane heater if needed. I can’t run power so need an off grid option that isn’t expensive.

[@veggitarianredneck]

The aluminum can passive solar collectors are really efficient. A friend of mine made one and it works great. Only comes into play when the sun shines though

[@alveygardens]

@@veggitarianredneck I really appreciate your response. I have now acquired 2 fans. solar panel, battery and charge controller. and I have metal roofing to create a passive solar panel. Of course it is easy to get aluminum cans too. Just trying to figure out which style will provide the most heat for a small shed that only needs to maintain heat at 45 to 50 degrees. It is cold storage for fig trees. the space is fully insulated. 10 by 20 shed. The whole back of the shed is south facing. so perfect to mount the system.

[@lancealderman2755]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but you can measure the resistance of the element. Then once the panels are hooked up measure the volts at the heater. Volts÷ohms=current. Current X Volts = watts. Or voltage^2 ÷ ohms = watts. I had 4 250w panels hooked up to a space heater element once. The voltage was 81.5v and resistance was 13.4 ohms. It comes out to 489 watts. Only about 20v per panel when their optimum is 30v but I was also not angled correctly. Best I usually get with those panels at the wrong angle is 135w through an mppt. So apples to apples I get 540w through an mppt charge controller and straight to a heating element I was getting 489w. It's pretty good as long as my math is right. No battery, inverter, or charge controller... Now I run a lot of panels through an inverter and into 2 space heaters but I find myself wondering if I shouldn't be going straight to heating elements in the winter. Easier on everything and no electronics to fail.

[@ramizarzouri6682]

My heater was 40 homs can i give him 180v DC from panel?

[@opera5714]

I do know how to do that the right way, with a power point controller that keeps the panels at power point. It also has arc interrupt so existing thermostats can operate without burning up. Direct connect is for people who don't know what they are doing. You need three times the panels to get the performance I get.

[@veggitarianredneck]

There's no way you are getting 3 times the power with the same amount of solar. Maybe 20% more with a mppt controller. But hay prove me wrong, ide love to see yer setup.

[@opera5714]

@@veggitarianredneck A MPPT charge controller is only about 30% more efficient because the drop in PV voltage is limited to battery volts. In a direct connect resistance load, PV voltage can go to almost zero. Power is a squared function of the array voltage. Small drops in voltage create a much larger loss in power. You only get two hours of really good sun a day. For example, when panel current is 70% of maximum the increase in power with a MPPT controller is 50%. At 50% current that increases to 100%. 40% the increase is 250% and at 30% the increase is 330%. In most areas, increases clouds in fall and winter reduce panel currents so low that direct connect produces little power. My focus has been heating domestic water from harvesting excess energy that solar systems usually just waste. PV energy is a resource too important to dedicate to just water or heating, but the principals are the same. Electronics is needed to continually match the panels to the load. These power point systems can be very low cost. Using a charge controller and battery to accomplish this inefficient and costs way too much money. Take voltage readings every half hour thru the day and it is easy to calculate the power that can be gained. Switching DC with AC thermostats is dangerous as these switches will burn up.

[@jayrro]

Nice video, how to connect and how to set it, but from the headline I was hoping you tell some statistics if it is really be viable system through the year. Mostly through winter or at least spring and autumn.

[@veggitarianredneck]

I'm still testing it. I will definitely do some update vids. Thanks for watching.

[@dogdazetravellergarrett1367]

😎👍

[@robertcurran1767]

I noticed Morro Bay in your home page. Fished salmon commercially for a decade, until Fish and Game made it next to impossible to pay for fuel and ice. California, well you know. I have 20 acres of sunshine near Lake Nacimiento and am determined to cut PG&E out of my life. I also need to drill a well and don't want to beg the bureaucrats for permission. I wonder what with the picture of Morro Rock did you live in SLO county?

[@veggitarianredneck]

Yes, I lived in Morro bay, Cayucos,, Atascadero, and Paso Robles. Later moved out to lake San Antonio. I fished outa Morro Bay with a guy named Meyers for crab, he had a Salmon license too you might know him.

[@DannyD8882]

Guy almost sends a spade bit right into his gas pipe!

[@davidpatrick1813]

I wonder how it will work in true winder. We need sun light for it to work well. Also panel configuration can help so slight shade won’t shut it down.

[@veggitarianredneck]

I'll post updates, but I'm sure it will produce much less heat overall. Which is exactly when it's needed most unfortunately.

[@davidpatrick1813]

@@veggitarianredneck I was thinking last night ... is/if there is another way to dump/store the solar (I know batteries but that isn't what I am thinking) ... maybe some sort of a larger capacitor type thing that the voltage could be released slowly at night to the elements.

[@veggitarianredneck]

@@davidpatrick1813 My thought was to ultimately produce hot water and then it can be pumped through an exchanger

[@koborkutya7338]

@@veggitarianredneck You may also want to heat up some big slab if you have one inside your house. Store heat in some large mass heated up. If e.g. you can place a 1 m3 water tank inside somewhere (OK quite bulky but for the sake of explanation) it is 1000kg of water. Heating it up from 20degC to 40degC (20degrees) stores over 20kWh of heat. 40DegC is not that high (not dangerous) and you can do that with an immersion heater, no moving parts etc. You keep the lid on so no humidity comes out (just enough to equalize pressure, of course). If you have a metal tank it will also work as a decent radiant heating when above 30deg, at least in the rom it is placed. If I saw correctly your house is a wooden structure, no big masses in the structure like concrete floors or brick walls. I would try and use some liquid heat buffers like above. Minimize pumping, pipes, valves, connections etc - they just make it complicated, expensive, maintenance-intensive and less reliable. I like your direct heating approach. Keep it simple.

[@fortvalor]

About to do this bought everything for it then said hmmm wonder if someone already did this let’s see lol. I’m looking for stats on this guess I’ll get them soon :)

[@veggitarianredneck]

I need to see exact amperage draw to know for sure but honestly I'm pretty sure it's output is as rated. I'm really pleased with it.

[@project5328]

Would it give of any heat with only 200w solar panel. Btw very good video

[@veggitarianredneck]

Unfortunately not much

[@Le_Comte_de_Monte_Felin]

How is this heat set up working now? I have a couple baseboards in the garage that our local power company salivates over when I turn them on. Do you have any kind of thermostat?

[@veggitarianredneck]

No thermostat just on and off. It's working really good especially now that we have lotels of sun, it's good at chasing the chill out in the morning.

[@ozzybloke4830]

Here's a video showing the difference between switching AC and DC at higher voltages. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o4LTq6qIbNx_m9E

[@christo930]

Generating electricity with a solar panel in order to power an electric heater is a terrible waste of resources. It would be far more efficient and cost effective to put in solar thermal panels with a heat exchanger in the house. You are effectively using your entire solar array to power a single baseboard heater. Hell, you'd be better off installing incandescent lights to heat the house. You would get light along with the heat.

[@veggitarianredneck]

It was an experiment for the sake of curiosity. The panels costs less than any other type of solar collector anyways.

[@christo930]

@@veggitarianredneck Well, if you got a special deal on them and they were cheap, it could be a good way to use them. Still, solar thermal is a lot more efficient. PV is, at most, about 18% efficient. Solar thermal can be up around 80%, especially at the low temperature heat you need for heating a house. 700F would probably be fine for that.

[@todamnbad]

what is the DC to AC conversion (if there is one) curious if a constant short would cause panels to heat up or cause damage to them

[@veggitarianredneck]

No conversion needed, induction devises doesn't know the difference. The panels should handle the current without any issues. But we'll see, if something happens I'll post an update.

[@GkTheodore]

@@veggitarianredneck Thanks for the video. A correction (IMHO): >...induction devises doesn't know the difference. Not INDUCTION but RESISTANCE! Its RESISTIVE devices like these heaters that do not know the difference. Inductive and Capacitive loads know the difference all too well!

[@veggitarianredneck]

@@GkTheodore ok, good point, I will have to make sure to correct that in the future. Thank you.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

It absolutely wouldn't be producing 750 W worth of heat the majority of the time that it's operating, and that's really not much in general, especially in a wooden structure. Watts = Volts x Amps, and with the reduced voltage coming from the panels (only peaking at well less than the heater's rated voltage), the available power will be far less than 750 W throughout the day. Maybe consider a solar hot water system with a good deal of storage and baseboard radiators?

[@veggitarianredneck]

You seem real sure about that.

[@veggitarianredneck]

You seem real sure about that.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@veggitarianredneck About the fact that it wont produce 750 watts worth of heat? Yes, I'm absolutely sure about that, that's just Ohm's Law. You could get a 100A, 250V Watt meter off of ebay for about $15 and put it to the test. I'd also bet that the heater drags the voltage of the panels down to below 200 volts, even at peak.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@veggitarianredneck Sorry, I was looking at an AC meter. There are some DC meters that go up to 200v, but it might be kinda hard to find one that goes up to 250.

[@veggitarianredneck]

@@PistonAvatarGuy Well OK challenge accepted. If you don't mind I'll put the results in an up coming video and record the results. Of course if you are right I will graciously concede.

[@ctlprogrammer]

The problem is when there is no sun.....then you need a football field of solar panels...and you still can't heat your house.🤧

[@veggitarianredneck]

You are not lying

[@SpinDizzy-fr8bc]

lol. It comes down to can you save one gallon of heating gas a week or can you save a couple of turns on the electric meter. Over the winter that can add up.@@veggitarianredneck

[@veggitarianredneck]

@@SpinDizzy-fr8bc exactly right. Margins might be small but they ad up