Can you make MONEY off a FREE game on itch.io?

[@TinyFishGameDev]

I forgot to add, I joined Indiepocalypse (Issue # 37) when I first released Toe II Toe. As of 2023, November 20, it has given me 4 payments amounting to USD 75 . That's 319 + 75 = USD 394.

[@Mot0Mot0]

My left ear enjoyed this, however my right ear is disappointed.

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Sorry! Lesson learned, won't happen again!

[@Charmunk3d]

SAME

[@mamukrisam]

i thought my headphones were broken 😂

[@Cadper-ty6ul]

I put on mono audio lol

[@vindi167]

same @@Cadper-ty6ul

[@Tarnest]

No wonder that third game did so much better. The art and animations are crazy good!

[@RedHeadphones]

Left ear: 🎙👂🏼👍🏼🎧 Right ear: 🤷‍♂🔇👂🏼🚫

[@nick-brooking]

The art on Toe II Toe is insanely good! Well done. Keen to see more from you

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Thanks for the words of appreciation, Nick! I love games and making them, hopefully my next few ones won't disappoint.

[@aidsdispenser832]

That's what sold ppl on it ngl

[@luckysun1852]

you can go to accessibility->audio->play stereo audio as mono to temporarily fix audio problem

[@lipethemiz7704]

Great video, good to see a indie dev sharing experience

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Thank you!

[@Jess_IsCringe]

Finally, the real questions are being answered! Also, sorry if this sounds nitpicky, but the music for your outro was a bit loud while you were still talking, made it hard to hear the last words. Not sure what editing software you used, but I suggest seeing if there's a way to lower the music while giving your final thoughts and raise it for the end cards.

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Glad I was able to help. I had so many questions before, still do actually. I want to help out others who had or have the same questions. Thank you for the feedback too. I use Da Vinci Resolve. I'll fix the volume in the succeeding episodes. I edited this time using speakers, forgot to check with headphones. Seems like I missed that, and the voice just being on the left channel. Pretty new to YT, so still stumbling, but I'll definitely do better next time.

[@phoenixechoes01]

And this is the first comment of the channel 'Tiny Fish'

[@GreenLightDev]

The game jam game looks great, and I didnt realize there were super casual game jams like that. That's awesome, and it looks really fun!

[@TinyFishGameDev]

It is really fun and laid back! I guess it depends on your personality and objective. As a beginner, it worked for me because it wasn't as intimidating as the other jams. There's a discord server for the 20 second game jam if you want to hop on. There are also lots of other jams that you can participate in. If you find one that you like and enjoy, I'd like to hear about it too!

[@mangotronics_games]

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing your experience and numbers. I've been thinking lately more about releasing game for free with the donation option. Hopefully I can do that more in the future!

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Go for it! Even if it doesn't earn you money, you might get more people to play and enjoy your game. By the way, your YT profile has a link to your site, which is suspended. You might want to redirect that to your itchio page (which isn't in your profile) while you sort your domain/host issues out.

[@thecloudhell]

thanks for sharing your experience, really inspiring, I started uploading games on itch about 1 month ago, I have 12k views overall so far but I've only gotten $8 in donations so far.... your games in this video look great well done, especially the last one (boxing) has a very impressive graphic

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Thank you. If you just started last month and got 12k views and 8 dollars already, I think that's a great start. Certainly more impressive than my first few attempts. Keep up the good work, and do share some tips and tricks based on your experiences.

[@PrincePuppy611]

the one time where only having one airpod in is the best way to listen 💀

[@UnidayStudio]

Nice! Have you considered testing this again but with paid games in it? It would be an interesting experience.

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Hi @UnidayStudio, I plan to try it out. I have spoken to people whose experience indicate that paid games earn more with a price to it. Their theory is that people feel there is more value, and is therefore worth playing (as opposed to something being given out for free). People feel inclined to play the more since they already paid for it too. Also, a paid game on sale attracts people because they don't want to miss out. I'll experiment somewhere down the line and be sure to post my experience and the results.

[@hoasd1493]

Thanks for sharing your experiment!

[@shadowlordalpha]

WHY IS THIS ONLY IN MY LEFT EAR

[@Gran-x-Can]

Nice video. Thanks for sharing.

[@humanharddrive1]

toe to toe animations look great

[@Seem_gDev]

Did you do any sort of marketing for your games? If not, you should try and explore some free marketing avenues for your next projects and see if they're even worth doing

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Not really, I haven't gotten to that part yet, unless you include a few posts on social media. My focus has always been on the asset/game creation side. Will definitely do some studies and experiments on marketing, eventually post the results to help out others.

[@Seem_gDev]

@@TinyFishGameDev That would be interesting, I'll be here to witness your journey

[@TinyFishGameDev]

​@@Seem_gDevthanks! I hope we learn many things, fellow tiny fish!

[@meistomeytombo]

Really cool video, I’m curious what happened around late jan/early feb 2023? All 3 graphs have a spike in views around this time, was it something on your end or something itch did?

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Late Jan is when my post went viral on reddit, so it's probably that. I don't know if itchio also contributed to the traffic. It is possible that after getting some traffic, itchio added to the attention by maybe putting it on the popular section. If I remember correctly, a fellow jam member mentioned my game at the time was in featured in a section at the bottom, but not the main feature.

[@jacobingg5314]

audio only in left ear

[@TinyFishGameDev]

ohhh... Thanks, can't believe I missed that. I'll be sure not to make the same mistake in the next episode. I'll see if I can find a way to fix the audio for this one.

[@GamerLegend223]

cool vid im subbing

[@MikeHart66]

So what were did the money on itch came from? Ads? How?

[@TinyFishGameDev]

I believe I explained it in the video, but if it wasn't clear, those are all donations from people who enjoyed/wanted to support the game. I have yet to try out ad revenue. When I do, I'll share the results too.

[@eloctopusmakesgames]

To start and get some views on itch, do you think that it is better to publish games to play in the browser or games to download and execute on your system?

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Definitely! People are very impatient and often won't download stuff, especially for a simple game from a random unknown dev and there is a risk of downloading a virus/trojan. Maybe if you've established yourself, then this wouldn't matter as much. If there is a web version, my trust goes up a bit. If I like the game, that's the time I download executables. My browser plays are significantly higher than downloads. Also, a web version works on mobile, so major points for those who make their game mobile ready/playable. When I'm out and bored, I look for games to play on my phone/tablet. Obviously, I have to skip those that I can't play, and that's a missed opportunity.

[@eloctopusmakesgames]

@@TinyFishGameDev Thank you a lot for your answer! Yes I totally agree, I will publish more games to play in the web untill I will have more followers then! Thank you!

[@TinyFishGameDev]

@eloctopusmakesgames you can also offer a demo (a level or something) if you like, especially if you have a very large game or a paid product. However, if your engine doesn't offer web output, I think it might be better to look for alternative ways to gain users instead of having to rewrite everything.

[@eloctopusmakesgames]

@@TinyFishGameDev yes I'm doing it! I added the browser version of my game to the same itch page, and I had a lot more people playing it! Thanks a lot!

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Glad to hear it! I found your page and tried out Urban Sprint. Pretty fun, but I might be biased since I love Crazy Taxi. Oh, you might want to add a link to your page on your YT profile. Also, one more thing I noticed, when I view all in your itch page, there are 3 games listed, but you have one more game that isn't displayed, Cooking Matching Tiles. Luckily your "Have a look at my other games" section was there (which a great idea, I'm borrowing that!)

[@Flamebamboo]

Hey I watched this video with headset audio only on the left side?

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Hey, thanks for watching. Yeah, the audio is only on the left channel. I messed up, didn't notice, and when people pointed it out, I didn't reupload it anymore. First video mistakes, I guess. I blame it on excitement and anxiety haha

[@Flamebamboo]

@@TinyFishGameDev hahaha no worries most importantly the content :)

[@cristinocanga]

How do you take the money from itchio?

[@TinyFishGameDev]

You can do paypal or stripe, iirc. Here's the itch.io ayout page info: itch.io/docs/creators/payments

[@themoney-r2v]

thank you for the inspiration

[@themoney-r2v]

trying to try game dev with unity soon hoping to post on itch just a simple pong remake what you thing

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Go for it. It's a learning process. It's good to have milestones, small goals before you take on bigger ones. After that pong clone, take on more challenging tasks.

[@vindi167]

wha- i just found a new channel?!

[@TinyFishGameDev]

I hope so! Stick around, let's get better together!

[@night_editz1123]

I also enjoyed your video it was very helpful

[@mohamedss9952]

Thanks

[@idle.observer]

Did you do the art of Toe || Toe?

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Hi @idle.observer. Yes, I did. As well as the music and sfx. Hopefully I can get talented music people for the game someday, have better music.

[@idle.observer]

No way, how long you've been into art? It's top-notch! Can you give me some tips? I can't even draw without copying a reference yet. I'm a complete beginner in art side :)@@TinyFishGameDev

[@TinyFishGameDev]

I've been at it for quite a while, although I'm not really a pixel artist, more of a 2d traditional and 3d artist. I was just able to translate the concepts over to pixel art. But i still have a lot to learn. As for advice, there is no one size fits all. It all depends on what you're trying to achieve. Copying is a good first step. Keep practicing, copy the things you like. Keep a journal. You might hate it, but it will help you keep track of your progress. As you go, instead of just copying, study and analyze stuff. Ask for feedback, and be receptive. You'll start to sharpen you hand and eyes. Don't stop practicing. Stick around, eventually I'll make tutorials with a specific objective in mind, which might be able to help you. There are also many learning resources here on youtube and other tutorial sites. You need to put in time and work. So stay hungry and keep practicing!

[@idle.observer]

Actually, my first preference is hand-drawn art. Even though I like pixel art, my love is Darkest Dungeon's Mignola-style art. But it's really hard to draw especially humanoid creatures. I sketch some melee weapons and stuff on paper, they're not too bad. But when I try to draw a character... It's a real abomination 😄Thank you for the advice. I would love to see game art tutorials on your channel. It probably doesn't even matter pixel art or hand drawn. As far as I see, it's mostly about understanding the shapes and how they become a more complex structure. At the moment I'm not able to do it but practice makes it better ✌

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Ah, then I think practicing anatomy would be a good tip for you. I know Mignola is stylized, but I find that it really helps to have a good anatomy foundation. It allows you to be creative while still being "believable", kind of like how caricature artists do it. They know the face so well and they know to exaggerate features while still making it look like the subject. This is probably one of the first suggestions you'd get after Loomis, but I highly suggest you look at George Bridgman's book, "Drawing from Life". It's a compilation of his studies. First impressions, it might not look much because they're simply sketches/studies, but it gives you good insights in human anatomy. It's not a traditional anamtomy book where there are images and labels of the human body -- He simplifies things so one can understand how the human body looks and works. When you understand that, it will be easier to create characters, be it realistic or stylized.

[@devkid1412]

underrated

[@themoney-r2v]

tiny fish please

[@aleksdeveloper698]

I did 12 games and nothing.

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Hi Aleks! You might want to add a link to your itchio page on your youtube profile as well as the videos. I had to search up your game to find your itchio profile (teamcloud). Most people are too lazy or would not be willing to spend that much time and effort to find an unknown game from unknown developers like us. May I ask where you published those 12 games? How long were they published? Your youtube and itchio profile only has one game, published a few days ago. Also, any lessons and tips you can share with us that you learned from publishing 12 games?

[@Radu_NG]

Very cool concept. I want to start making video games and this video is giving me a idea. Thanks!

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Go for it! Can't wait to see what you come up with. Good luck!

[@JessieLux-x2h]

you should upload toe2toe on android and ios

[@TinyFishGameDev]

It's available on Play Store, although it's not on the Apple Store. You can still play it on your browser and play it as a pwa.

[@jacobpence9357]

its very annoying that the audio only comes out of one ear. clicked to another video after a few seconds.

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Sorry about that, but thank you for still taking the time to leave feedback. Will do better next time. Cheers!

[@plokijhugf]

left headphone piecei s broken cant hear anything

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Hi, yes, I made a mistake for this video, accidentally put the voice audio on one side only. Couldn't find a way to fix the audio without reuploading the entire thing, so I just left it as is. Sorry about that, won't happen again!

[@plokijhugf]

@@TinyFishGameDev its fine lmao great content

[@revimfadli4666]

Can you nudge the algorithm with a comment?

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Not entirely sure, since I'm new to this whole KZbin thing. I assume interaction is good, but with the amount of videos and comments on KZbin, it's probably just a drop in the ocean. What I am sure of though, is that a comment helps motivate me, so thanks!

[@revimfadli4666]

​@@TinyFishGameDevyou're welcome! Other than being in a jam, I suspect the smooths and detailed animation of Toe II Toe helped its appeal.

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Oh sorry, you meant on itchio! Thought on youtube, that you trying to nudge YTs algorithm to "upvote" the new channel. Maybe comments do help? I'm also not sure about itch.io's algorithm. I was trying to read on it--has to do more with the votes, how you design your page, screenshots, videos, tags, devlogs, and possibly manual curation (for the features). Take a look at these posts by leafo: itch.io/t/34063/how-can-you-get-featured-on-the-home-page. itch.io/t/719515/how-does-itchio-sort-games-by-these-criteria-popular-newpopular-top-rated-top-sellers-most-recent One of my favorite entries on the 20 Second Game Jam, Rubblar (sandervanhove.itch.io/rubblar), got featured on the front page of itch.io several times. It was among the popular games of the jam for sure, but if you take at the entries and sort by popularity, other popular entries would overtake it every now and then. I'm not sure about the period for popularity sorting, but it seems like it's not in total. You can see curation play a part in there. Didn't matter if other games were more popular. The game was fun and polished with a well-designed page, got featured and was given a boost by itchio. My suggestion is not to focus on the algorithm. Instead, focus on making an awesome game, and make sure it has an equally awesome page to support it.

[@Gureenu]

i can hear you in my head

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Don't know if that's bad or good, but since you can hear me in your head... "You can make games, don't give up!"

[@Gureenu]

@@TinyFishGameDev ok tiny fish that speaks the human language thats inside my head, i won't give up!

[@themoney-r2v]

i want to get monetizied within 365 days!

[@TegridyMadeGames]

Steam? Profit?!?!

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Maybe/Hopefully?? Only one way to find out, but still gathering the courage at the moment!

[@TegridyMadeGames]

​@@TinyFishGameDev just do it they let literally anyone make games i put my first projects on steam and they sell the best lol

[@TegridyMadeGames]

@@TinyFishGameDev if your making donations on itch you'll make bank on steam

[@TegridyMadeGames]

@@TinyFishGameDev yt keeps deleting my comments

[@TegridyMadeGames]

@@TinyFishGameDev just do it, trust.

[@_nickthered]

If you had charged $10 for toe to toe you'd have made more money. Instead of releasing it for free.

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Maybe. There's a theory that I eventually want to personally test--that if you put a price on a game, more people will value and play it. A number of people have attested to it, so what you say might be true. That said, my first 2 games didn't make a cent, so my confidence level then was at an all-time low. My train of thought was, nobody would ever play my games, and if I add a price tag, that's just going to give them another reason to ignore my games. Now that I have a bit of confidence, I can maybe try to put a price tag in one of my future games, and see for myself if that theory is true. When that happens, I'll be sure to share the results!

[@_nickthered]

​@@TinyFishGameDevyeah I hear you on the confidence thing, I too do not have high confidence for my games either. People do judge and treat free games differently than paid. So there's definitely a different standard, and I would say people also treat different types (genre) of games differently. Where one game $30 has a certain bar for another type of game it may be lower. Also same with android versus iPhone marketplaces. Steam vs itch etc. very curious what you find out!

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Yep, still so much I need to learn. I'm gathering the courage now to release on steam so I can familiarize myself with the process and personally experience how it is in the big league. Oh speaking of genres, it's funny-- I remember reading that fighting games is probably one of the worst genres to take on as an indie dev as it's a difficult and dying genre. I suppose I got lucky with the timing because fighting games had a recent resurgence. P.S. I know gaining confidence is difficult, I still struggle with it a lot, but try not to knock yourself down. A lot of people will do that for you, so there's no need to add yourself to the list. Wish you luck with releasing your games (and hopefully you can share with us your experience too!)

[@letthatbe]

TL;DR: No you can't.

[@TinyFishGameDev]

5:53 You can.

[@letthatbe]

@@TinyFishGameDev 315$ :D

[@jellycode4949]

Hey, about Toe to Toe Did it make 400 dollars purely through donation? Like many of the people who played must have given u 1-5 dollars and that added upto 400

[@TinyFishGameDev]

Roughly. ~240 via itch, ~125 via ko-fi, all donations. The others were from proceeds from joining a bundle, ~ 75. My default value for donation was USD 2, but a handful donated 10, 1 donated 15, and another, 25 I think. Most donations were 1-2 usd.

[@jellycode4949]

@@TinyFishGameDev Oh my, that's a great amount to donate for an indie game, I guess your game was that good that someone donated $25.

[@TinyFishGameDev]

@@jellycode4949I'd like to think so. And indeed, it is a generous amount, certainly didn't expect anyone to donate, even at the amount I set. It might also be due to supporting the players. I implemented some of the suggestions, and several people who liked the changes donated more than once.

[@jellycode4949]

@@TinyFishGameDev well, I have to say, u indeed are very capable, also open to feedback. I wonder if I will ever make even $100, I mean u can see my game's trailer in my yt channel, it has only 12 downloads lol, Idk how will I reach there :/ But I am listening to your advice videos so maybe it will just take some time

[@TinyFishGameDev]

@@jellycode4949 Yeah, for sure it won't happen overnight. Like I said, it's extremely difficult, and if you're starting just starting, money shouldn't be your primary objective, or you're going to be disappointed real quick. Try to enjoy the journey, because it's going to be long/seemingly endless. I took a look at your game trailer, and I think the graphics could still use some improvements. Try to play a lot games, study their UI and graphics. Watch tutorials too, there are lots out there. Another thing you can explore is to use premade assets. There are free and high-quality game assets available for download such as Kenney's. Being a solo game dev needs you to be a jack of all trades, and trying to level up from scratch in multiple disciplines is tough. Using premade assets can help you level up in the other aspects of the game (e.g. programming side). Study the assets that you use too. Eventually, if you decide to create everything from scratch, you'll be able to put more focus since you don't have to focus as much on the programming side.

[@onikageTK]

Lower barrier of entry = higher risk of catching malware

[@TinyFishGameDev]

That is true. I guess that's one of the downsides. Lucky enough not to have gotten any malware on itch, but that might be because I often play web games, and the ones I downloaded are from people who have already gained reputation. Very good point and a valid concern. This post by itchio's leafo states that they scan all files uploaded to their server, and that their desktop app has a sandbox mode. So I guess there's something being done about it itch.io/t/179769/hello-again-everyone-is-safe-download-games-form-here