This Problem Changes Your Perspective On Game Dev

[@GMTK]

This is one of the absolute best videos on game dev, Jonas. Completely true, packed with actionable ideas, and backed up with your own experience. Great stuff.

[@kaingagame4351]

Two legends in the same space? Amazing. Let's see a GMTK on games that were initially game modes!

[@pamparam3495]

100% agree

[@revimfadli4666]

​@@kaingagame4351like MOBA and autobattler?

[@Yolwoocle]

I read this in your voice

[@DaveScurlock]

Would really like to see you apply the contents of this video to your own journey / journeys you are familiar with x

[@katanalevygames]

That "prototype art and gameplay separately" is the single best piece of game dev advice I've ever heard! I always get stuck with half completed projects because one feels like it's put limits on the other. Thank you!

[@falseprofit9801]

The metaphor gets a bit wooly in places (a search algorithm doesn’t get exhausted or frustrated) but that single quote, “prototype art and gameplay separately” is honestly profound.

[@Xalantor]

Path of Exile pumps out a shit ton of content, especially enemy variety, every major patch. One way they manage this that they have many basic enemy archetypes and just try wrapping them with some textures they have lying around. Tweek the stats a bit, maybe some kind of special move and new patch enemy is done, it's brilliant. For example they used some metal clutter object textures on zombies and created some cool magic automaton enemies.

[@RN1441]

The opposite of this would be the 'Star Citizen' approach.

[@Dogo.R]

Heres an even more insightful version: Optimize for composability. Aka minimize coupling. Seperate things where you can. That way they can go different directions, they have have specialized captians for each, and they can be swapped out and replaced with little effort. Art and gameplay is just 1 example of adding composability. You can add so so much more.

[@falseprofit9801]

@@Dogo.R Do you think that's a property that someone should be checking for ~2x per day? Like when you break for lunch & dinner, for example? I'm trying to imagine applying composability to my own workflow, and all I can think of is stopping work, stepping back, and asking myself "can I afford to use an isolated, simplified environment to write the code for NPC behavior, or would doing so mess up compatibility with my main project?" Because I feel like keeping your nose down in the main project file is typically the best approach for rapid development, so time spend contemplating the cost/benefit of moving features to a separate project is gonna have diminishing returns after even 10+ minutes spent worrying about it [optimization].

[@JonasTyroller]

I have officially taught you everything I know.

[@salah3274]

thank you!!

[@cofa4011]

"Do not make a unique game for an alien species." is a great advice. ^^ Thanks for sharing your knowledge man.

[@richardbloemenkamp8532]

Since you will end up as a business consultant later in your life, please note that this material is very important and diving deeper in the various subjects as part of your game dev job is a good investment. Your advice is generally applicable to product/project development.

[@Zizaco]

Thanks Jonas!

[@Isteyak-78]

Hope you learn more and teach more

[@lew.bow.studios]

This should be a GDC talk! It was a remarkably interesting video to watch and I feel like so many things clicked for me as I was watching it. Thank you, Jonas!

[@WangleLine]

If this was a GDC talk it would be significantly less accessible (Not being able to edit the whole thing, having to pay a ton of money to GDC to even do the talk there etc.) There's nothing wrong with this being a youtube video imo.

[@lew.bow.studios]

​@@WangleLineNo one said there is anything wrong with it being a video, you just assumed that so you can be a contrarian.

[@WangleLine]

@@lew.bow.studios Hey no I'm not trying to argue, I just don't think there would be any gain from turning this into a gdc talk

[@lew.bow.studios]

@@WangleLine A GDC talk means Jonas would reach a wider audience and get recognition for all the contributions he has made to the field. GDC talks also provide a level of insight, knowledge, and understanding which is hard to match when you consider the expertise of the people they invite as speakers. Saying this should be a GDC talk is akin to saying it should be a Masterclass, that it transcends the medium it was made for.

[@abhilashlr9259]

​@@lew.bow.studiosyeah for real @jonas, see if you can do a gdc talk on thronefall

[@snorlaxhd4677]

Instructions unclear: made a search algorithm while at sea

[@JonasTyroller]

So far so good. The next step is to teleport your captain into the ocean.

[@flameofthephoenix8395]

@@JonasTyroller Then after that make the artsy fartsy color swirl boat that floats above water and is meant to be sailed by aliens.

[@notnullbit]

wait we aren't suppose to be at sea?

[@kingofgranges]

Nice profile pic!

[@ChaitanyaDhareshwar]

Need to Sync the instructions better. Should be easy, if you're in hot water anyways.

[@Chamassa1210]

This applies very much to all creation. The good thing about building any kind of software is that the cost of experimentation is really low. Thanks for your insights!

[@NightmareRex6]

right once allready have the computer you allready spent the money.

[@jeff9400]

@@NightmareRex6 not true really. Even if you are single developer, you still have to spend money on everyday needs and entertainment. So the longer you make your game/software, the more money you have to earn to pay that off. And if you are a company with a team of developers, their salaries will eat your budget if the development takes too long.

[@gregoirenedelcovici6194]

yeah I'm in the immersive theater field and this analysis holds true. But each creative field will have to find clever ways for fast prototyping that lead to significant measurements. And it's easier said than done. You have to fail often and quickly, but not too badly so you can't continue to fail.

[@theothetorch8016]

I like you, because you are a thinker. Self reflection, analysis and then decision making are great skills of yours and it shows. I love the clarity in your essays.

[@JonasTyroller]

Appreciate the kind words. Thank you.

[@SystemOfATool]

That's exactly what i've been thinking throughout the whole video.

[@zackbuildit88]

This is worded like a poem wha

[@Bananenbauer123]

This video should be played in every game design course. Period.

[@JonasTyroller]

I would have been very happy if somebody had shown this to me 5 years ago. That's why I made it. :D

[@krillin6]

No, it shouldn't. Not to be mean, but this is entire premise has fundamental flaws and hand waves away reality and replaces it with piles of presumptions. There is some value here, but the core idea of assuming you can engineer a solution to this problem is inherently misguided.

[@raphaeld9270]

@@krillin6 I'd like to know those other approaches too, because, gamedev is a soft science, since we are dealing with humans, time and trends. :D But it is okay, if you only have some broad strokes, those could be interesting starting points regardless. Have a great day everyone :D

[@NihongoWakannai]

​​@@krillin6 It's not wrong or misguided, I just think you're incapable of understanding the usefulness of an illustrative analogy. This is a very good way of explaining the creative process and how to approach the exploration of new ideas. If you think it's wrong then what's your job, experience and alternative approach?

[@DeadStawker]

​@@krillin6a definitively seems like there's some value in your comment but unless you provide a more useful solution your assumption falls on an empty promise you know?

[@yayos666]

The only bad thing of this video is that you didn't make it 2 years ago when I started my own indie game, stumbling on the way on all of these issues. It's the single best, most informative, complete and clear tool set on how to desing and make games. I will apply all of these for my next game. Thank you very much for making it!!!

[@schwingedeshaehers]

what is your game?

[@rubberface1424]

Brilliant! I would say that this also applies to other creative processes, like filmmaking and writing. We should always take a moment to reflect on the process and see what can be improved and what worked. I'll definitely come back to this when troubleshooting in the future. Thank you!

[@stefdevs]

Congratulations, this is now the most useful game design talk on KZbin.

[@iceluke8084]

You’ve just summarized everything I’ve learned in 2 years of my game design bachelor and more in 26 min. Keep up your insanely good work!

[@altafcreator]

Finally, a new upload! I'm still on the second minute at this point, but I already wanted to thank you so much. You were the person who ignited my game dev journey. Before I watched your videos a few years back, I already tried Unity but gave up. But then at one random night I found your Unity tutorial video, and the next day I decided to watch it, and now it's my new hobby. I've always liked programming since I was a kid, but now my favourite thing to do (in the programming space) is making games, and it was because of you. So once again, thank you. Thank you so much for making these amazing videos, Jonas.

[@Kaiwala]

In a weird way this video was incredibly motivating for me. I'm at a point in my game dev journey where I've spent the last 7 years developing random odd projects and maps for Roblox. My last creation, which I finished a "final update" of in the summer of last year, is my current magnum opus. And whilst that map, called Archipelago is my best ever creation and it took 3 years of iteration and slow improvements (even a basic form of that optimised search algorithm you show throughout this video) all I have to show for those 3 years is a handful of niche players saying it's the best map in the game. I wasn't paid for any of it. I have barely anybody who knows about it to show for it. The youtube video I made talking about it barely scraped by 1.7k views. And, it feels like that's not something I could throw onto a portfolio and wow anybody with. All my game design and developer knowledge is so entrenched in Roblox, a platform that feels like a dying corporate hellscape, that I'm too afraid to jump across the trench and try and start from scratch learning how to make a real game in engines like godot because of the sunk cost fallacy of having 7 years of Roblox game dev knowledge. But honestly, I've found myself coming up with 2 pretty cool ideas for a videogame that I would like to make. And they are ideas that just would not be feasible in the Roblox game engine. So I have a tough choice to make between 3 options in front of me- 1. Finally bite the bullet and start learning a new game engine. It's going to be tough, I have no experience with coding, and I know I will get frustrated many times and it will take a long time before I ever come to creating the really cool ideas I have. 2. Resign myself to the grip of my sunk cost fallacy and try emulate the games I wanna make in Roblox. This is far easier to do, but I don't think I will even be happy or motivated with the results. 3. Let another set of cool ideas I have die and take the easiest option which is to not act upon any of this. I'm 22 years old, and part of the rising anxiety that comes with adulthood is feeling like all the free time and experimentation I had is gone. Like now I just gotta knuckle down, continue doing a real job, and have no time or energy to work on my passion projects. But I realise that that's all bull, I do still have time the only friction I feel is my own willingness to try. This video has described many of the problems I bumped into over the years working as a team or even as a solo in my time on Roblox. I realise now that the spent time on Roblox isn't wasted, that those years of failure can be reframed to be my (very inefficient) scouting boats. I've done many of the stuff you said here before, the 2 captains problem such as me and another project lead butting heads, developers spending more time discussing the game rather than prototyping it, and spending far too much time on a prototype and making it look fancy before realising that is all wasted work. I've learned these lessons already. But now this video has helped reframe all that into just another step of the process. Sure, my childhood is over. But my adulthood has just begun. And I got 80 more years of time left. I think it's time I start learning how to make a game. Properly, this time. Thank you Jonas.

[@ric4746]

Man, Zeekerss, the creator of Lethal Company was a Roblox creator too, and he jumped into gamedev and made it ! Sure, everyone isn't Zeekerss but you can try ! Good luck to you ! =D

[@soulburner1860]

Hey, I can't exactly claim to fully understand you since I've been playing with unity since I was 15 and have a solid background in c# already but I want to let you know that writing code is easy. There's several messy unoptimised ways to arrive at your solution and for small games, it will not matter. You just need a push to start.

[@Kaiwala]

@@soulburner1860 Thanks guys for the kind words! I appreciate it!

[@ytubeanon]

I'd recommend trying Unity and its native Visual Scripting, it appealed to my Lego building mind, perhaps it will appeal to your Roblox building mind. Now we have ChatGPT/Bing A.I. which can help look up answers for specific questions or coding that we want, which can be difficult to find through search engines alone

[@lumen-youtube]

Man, this sounds a lot like me. Unfortunately my ROBLOX creations didn't even get 1/100th of the attention, my magnum opus was ignored except for the positive remarks of 2 friends who checked them out. I had developed for 12 years. It's hard, especially feeling invisible regardless of what I do or where I do it. Even if I do move past those 12 years wasted and learn Godot, i'm afraid of being stuck in that same pit as I was beforehand, going completely unnoticed despite my best efforts. Like a strange middle-ground of mediocrity that nobody could care about.

[@mathijsfrank9268]

Very insightful video. Honestly that tip on switching prototypes when 2 people are both happy with theirs is absolutely genius. Never heard of that before, but it just makes so much sense.

[@uheartbeast]

This is put so clearly, it's insane. Thanks Jonas.

[@Nikchant]

Honestly, just thank you: - You and your channel (Funny/Educational videos + some parts of your personality I guess?) - Wowie game jams (One of the stepping stones on my gamedev journey) - Discord community (I'm not a native English speaker, yet was reviewing games in room with a lot of people) - WYS arg (I've learned CUDA programming and other stuff, met new people and still having a great time) I've learned a few things just from a gamedev process presented in a funny/interesting way (devlogs). Now you're giving us compacted knowledge in an easy to understand metaphore. I don't even know what else to ask for. Keep up the good work :D

[@timvandeneng4724]

Okay don't take this the wrong way but i used to skip your videos in the past because i didn't like them very much. BUT HOLY HELL JONAS you have redeemed yourself!! Your quality has become outstanding of your videos! Your a great teacher man! Thumbs up and subscribe for you!

[@rasuru_dev]

One of the most valuable videos I've watched on KZbin. Made me realize creativity is a form of open ended problem solving. Thank you for sharing your insights

[@dreamteckstudio]

Thank you Jonas. I now officially feel like a game dev Roomba 😮 (Great video)

[@dwadthechad]

I've been waiting for a new video and I'm already so excited 10 seconds in. Honestly you rekindle my love for game dev and I can't thank you enough.

[@vitulus_]

Love the video. For problem 4, I would say there's also retaining players. This gives actually more free advertising as retained players are likely to make dedicated KZbin videos. People are more likely to keep sharing to their friends, and may invest more money into the game. Helps build up a strong community,.

[@maltardraco9555]

I have completely ruined every game I have ever tried to make, experiencing those 4 red flags you mentioned every single time in that exact order and couldn't figure out why. Thank you for this.

[@iggy14750]

This guy is the biggest nerd in the best possible way. Search algorithms, formulas, like appeal = (polish + fantasy) * readability. This is how I best understand things, too! I want to work for someone who understands things this well! And understands the threat of scope creep.

[@redyau_]

You avoided scope creep masterfully in this video by only talking about games. But I feel like you know it very well that this applies to so much more than that! Thank you for this video, it will be very useful in many ways - including approaching software projects!

[@josephbills9903]

I think the reason it’s specific games is because if you show this video to fine art students instead CS students they will be (rightfully) pissed. I’m professional computer scientist, and the understanding of optimization displayed here is something that would appeal to someone with a bachelor’s understanding of computer science but would be criticized by someone with a Master’s understanding. There are huge philosophical issues with this approach that can only be ignored if you take a reductionist mindset.

[@vyrv6719]

Only thing I would point out is that 'appeal' is most successfully generated via word of mouth by an absolutely CRAZY factor, at least in gaming... and word of mouth is most generated via fun experiences in gaming spaces. So the idea that you NEED appeal is circular according to most of the datasets outs there right now, and the fact that the companies maximizing for appeal are failing, while those maximizing for fun are succeeding marks this as just wrong. It's not, because you CAN make something that is fun that doesn't generate appeal (games that incentivize you to be private about them). But it does mean that fun should basically ALWAYS occupy a higher hierarchical position than appeal, because you can often create a virtuous cycle, where by generating fun, you ALSO generate appeal. This basically means that Maximizing for fun, and then creating a workflow or project that produces some appeal as a side effect of that process or design (helldivers 2 is a perfect example) is a FAR more efficient model of this marketplace. is there probably a better one? yeah, but its by far the most successful in the market at the moment, for both revenue and engagement.

[@WhoovieCOD]

AMAZING analogy for really any creative pursuit, not just for game development. I've never made a game in my life but I can tell you I've used these exact same ideas within video making. Great video!

[@GrandpaWho]

I am twice your age and still waiting for my breakthrough. Thank you for the insights, it is very helpful! I wish I was able to give more back than a like and subscribe, and well, playing your games obviously.

[@james-s-smith]

Jonathan Blow has many talks about game development, and he uses the analogy of game design as a search algorithm fairly often. See e.g. his PRACTICE 2014 presentation, his talk "How and Why", his "Truth and Game Design" presentation, and especially his "Indie Prototyping" talk and IndieCade 2011 talk with Marc Ten Bosch, where the prototyping and exploration of design is discussed in detail. Your perspective is valuable though, because you are approaching this problem more as a businessman rather than an artist, and thus are much more concerned than Jon is about the cost of exploration. Jon is the kind of captain who will fly to different lakes around the world, and then when he finds one he likes, he'll rent out a submarine team to construct a 3D sonar map of the entire lake floor, and damn all the costs. For those of us more concerned with taking on debts in an inherently risky industry, your advice is much easier to follow.

[@chrisfrancisbass]

Wonderful insights. I’m not a game dev but I feel this wisdom applies to so much in life. As a software dev I often feel more comfortable trying to “build the thing right” where actually there’s more value in building the right thing. The search algorithm parallel illustrates that beautifully.

[@mr.crow6490]

What a phenomenal video. The boat with the search algorithm example was surprisingly coherent and a perfect fit for concepts of game design. It was very easy to follow and understand that I bet I can show this to someone who knows nothing about games in general and they would have a much better understanding at the end of it, that's how good this video was. Well done man, you have made one of the best game dev adjacent videos out there.

[@Muskar2]

Casey Muratori first introduced me to development being very similar exploration. His frame of reference was contrasting it with bloated and slow codebases that dominate the software industry, and the SOLID dogma. But Jonas' version is much more constructive, transparent, pragmatic and beginner-friendly. Casey's talk (Where Does Bad Code Come From?) is much more like a rant.

[@Soul_Cinema]

well said. i agree with you, mr. sunderland

[@JDNorton73]

Absolutely fantastic video. I'm a Design Teacher and Board Game Designer and this has just brought so many nebulous ideas about the design process into crystal clear focus. Bravo!

[@Milan____]

Yeah, luckily the multibillion corporation Epic Games DARED to mimic the most popular game genre of the era and leave their base building zombie survival tower defense action strategy part behind.

[@9fran9rosatti9]

The big jump was development-wise, it's not easy to shift a game idea that much

[@billmore6486]

Your acting like it was obvious and simple. Look how many games copied the battle Royale genre and see how many are left after a couple of years.

[@Milbyte11]

im still salty that they did that, i loved the original idea

[@tiberiusalexander6339]

You can knock it, but it worked

[@ftgodlygoose4718]

@@billmore6486Tbf a lot of games were hopping on the battle royal bandwagon after seeing the success of pubg. And given what we know about Epic Games it’s not surprising at all they’d ditch a project to hop onto the next more promising opportunity lol, they do it so much it’s a meme at this point.

[@adamp3988]

Safe Assumption: You're always in a local minimum (i.e. nothing's "perfect"); the question is whether or not you have the resources (time-included) to leap out and search for a potentially lower one. Alternatively, you can decide that you're ship is parked over a spot that, while not the deepest, is deep *enough* .

[@brunokaiser3497]

Absolutely amazing video. This has given me a completely different perspective on game dev. I'm suprised this topic (the search for the game) isn't more talked about and explored. Loved the addition of your own formulas.

[@soyBorza]

This is phenomenal, very clear and cleverly explained. I will add it to the resources for my production course (and also to my own tool belt). Great content as always, Jonas!

[@b4ux1t3-tech]

I am not saying this in any way to disparage this video, your work, or you. Just wanted to say that first, because the tone of my next sentence should be taken as a joke for the best effect: Congratulations, you have discovered software development life cycle fundamentals! Nearly everything you described is a part of the fundamentals of every approach to organized thinking around software development. It's the one part of game development I've never struggled with, because it's the part I've done for a living outside of the games industry! You're doing an excellent job, both in discovering these concepts independently and, more importantly, in communicating them effectively! AND, to be clear, a lot of big software development companies struggle with these concepts, so you're way ahead of the curve. ;)

[@colbyboucher6391]

Yep! Most indie game devs come from the creative world rather than the software world so it makes sense that project management isn't most people's strongsuit. But this guy seems to have figured it out on his own, so... he must be pretty good at it, I'd say.

[@iruns1246]

Was that software development fundamentals? Most softwares are developed through waterfall method with a specific business needs (or rather wants) are given from the top. Then the dev team mostly just use existing parts and methods to fulfill that in mostly routine ways. Even with more agile development, the specifics of the "search algorithm" described here is VERY rarely used (at least in my experience). The emphasize is usually in exploring fast, not exploring in an optimized way.

[@b4ux1t3-tech]

@@iruns1246 the "search algorithm" is a clever metaphor for the process of building software, that's all I mean.

[@iruns1246]

@@b4ux1t3-tech I know, but the specific methods mentioned in the video aren't standard practice in software development. It's certainly not "fundamentals". AFAIK in my experience in software dev any way. There are definitive fundamentals like clean code, documentation, testing etc, but optimized exploration is not one of those. Most software development projects are using and remixing already established scripts and practices. VERY few includes "searching" for new stuff. And even when searching, it's rarely done in an optimized way.

[@dagance]

Man, you left me speechless. This video is invaluable. I'm amazed by how much knowledge and fundamental understanding you have and how you managed to pack all of this into a short video with such a great balance of abstract concepts and very understandable concrete examples. Thank you so much! I still need to process all of this tho, and rewatch video a few more times xD

[@DemsW]

I don't always agree with what you put out, but this one seemed like a very good and fresh approach to a very common problem, great video.

[@rufocs686]

Wait, you did islanders? Thank you. It's one of my favourite casual games and a pleasure to play.

[@NeverSink]

This is one of the best game dev videos I've seen. Explores the problem space very well, provided great examples and solutions. We're working on our first steam game right now and I found it super helpful, thank you!

[@tonas3843]

This channel is such an amazing channel for game developers / designers, one of the best channels out of the 800+ channels I'm subscribed to. Love all the insights, the speed and pacing of the video is just perfect and very very interesting topics. Love everything!

[@ganondorfchampin]

Okay but I don’t want to make the best game, I want to make MY game.

[@MqKosmos]

Then you don't test out anything besides if it's working until you're done. But unless you're all Knowing you should research what you yourself might like more as well

[@renakunisaki]

As long as you can accept that it might not sell well.

[@ganondorfchampin]

@@renakunisakiWhy wouldn’t I? I should point out though that there is a big difference between attempting to optimizing revenue without constraints and tweaking MY game to have greater appeal.

[@artdjesus6267]

Your game topics are always quality and vids are well-produced.

[@AIAdev]

So my strategy of not having a plan isn't a great strat? 😅

[@JonasTyroller]

Depends on what you are optimizing for. If you are optimizing for your personal enjoyment, it might still be a valid strat.

[@NihongoWakannai]

Well you do have a video thumbail saying "2 YEARS WASTED"...

[@AIAdev]

🤔@@NihongoWakannai

[@erdmannchen6568]

This video just started with autoplay in my background while i was figuring out some coding problems. Turns out, 3 min into the video i was so hooked that i forgot to code and just watched it on my main monitor. - So congratz you made it from the background voice to the main attraction in like no time. Great video btw.

[@JonasTyroller]

Haha. Thanks. :D

[@geekworthy7938]

This is as German of an analysis as you will ever see.

[@i-am-the-slime]

Very hard to take in the accent

[@geckomoshpit]

Concise framing, no-fluff delivery, clear visuals. Factual, relevant, actionable. Incredible signal-to-noise ratio. This is a conference-worthy presentation of the highest grade. You'll pay a lot of money to see a talk by some industry leader presenting their insights and will not get more out of that. The "Captain Teleport Switch" is especially smart and can be applied well outside of game dev as well Magnificent work, Jonas.

[@damiankaleomontero496]

If you took out the game dev parts of this, it would feel like a lecture on machine learning lol. The first couple are obvious immediately, infinite search space is true for pretty much any "real world" problem, wrong reward function is just the alignment problem, etc.

[@JackFoz454]

I think that's because both the video, and machine learning algorithms, are designed to recreate an iterative human learning process.

[@josephbills9903]

That’s exactly what it is, it’s basically a repackaged lesson on computational creativity, except it accepts it as fundamental reality instead of a model for COMPUTERS.

[@ZahhibbDev]

This is honestly one of the most direct and sincere videos on game dev i've seen. You brought up some excellent points and ideas with great explanations to boot. Love it!

[@mkmyuu]

Copy + Paste "Promblem". Fast, but not accurate.

[@seraphimk.1196]

I'd like to share a few little things I noticed from a players point of view: Pesentation: Some developers obviously put more resources into making a shiny looking game that's really immersive and beautiful, but it just won't run properly (like Ark Survival Ascended for example). Readability: If you play the DayZ Mod (which is based on ARMA 2) and compare it to the DayZ standalone, you'll quickly notice that DayZ gives you more options in terms of player controls while using less buttons than the Mod. For example: Playing the Mod you got "c" for crouch and "x" for prone, while the Sandalone uses a quick press of "c" for crouch and holding "c" for a second to go prone. A smart layout for your Keybinds can make a game a lot more easy to learn and a lot more intuitive to play. And there are a lot more ways to improve readability than just keybinds. Fun: Exploring and gathering resources for example can be fun as long as the reward is in relation to the time investment. In other words: It's rewarding if you go chop down some trees to build yourself a house, but it get's frustrating and boring if you have to cut down 50+ trees to build a one by one shed with a single floor, which you can barely fit a storage box or a bed in, but not all the other things you'll need. Don't make your game too much of a grind. "Subnautica" for example does a good job at this. Scrapping: Think carefully about what you want to scrap, escpecially if you make a sequel. "Dawn of War" for example is a great game that still has an active playerbase even though it is 20 years old. The sequel "Dawn of War 2" went way more into detail with the campaign and unit micromanagement, but they scrapped the basebuilding. That way it turned out as a great singleplayer game, but the multiplayer skirmishes ... let's not talk about it. Innovation: "Command & Conquer" was always an RTS about basebuiding, a rather simple economy system and bulding and army with various different units ... until "Command & Comquer 4 Tiberian Sun" suddenly came up with a mobile base instead and kind of killed the franchise. This is basically also another entrance for scrapping. Innovation is good, but it should also meet the expectations of fans, especially if you make a sequel. "Executive Assault 2" for example did a nice job here by switching the setting, but keeping all the core mechanics. Comparing Indie developers to big game studios might seem a bit out of proportion, but the mistakes are the same. I see them over and over again with both Indie games and big franchises. If you made it to this line, sorry for the wall of text and congratulations on passings the endurance test ^^

[@thelastwaffle]

This analogy is perfect. I really, really hope the algorithm pushes this because this video truly deserves it.

[@RapThorX4]

Damn what an epic video this should be an GDC talk!

[@faust3209]

This video title is NOT a clickbait!

[@SurockGames]

You are amazing, I have been watching you for several years now, I really enjoyed your videoы about flow and fun!!! And this video is pure gold, I'm studying game design at the institute, but it was the most effective 20 minutes of my life :) Keep up the good work, it's really interesting to see your path to success in indie game development, I hope someone day I'll get there too 😂😂🤣🤣

[@michaelmonstertoad2461]

Sure... You can get caught up and lose many hours of sleep thinking about search algorithms to calculate the optimal indie game. Or, you just make games because you want to create enjoyable games. And if you enjoy it, someone else probably will too.

[@etrex5272]

I think this is the way. At least for me. I've played my own game for hundreds of hours at this point and still have fun. It's easier to motivate myself to keep working on it due to this aswell. We'll see when it releases, but based on alpha feedback I'm not alone in enjoying it. 😊

[@thedude6058]

i keep thinking “god it would be so cool to have mirror’s edge in night city with cyberware” but i have no interest in game design

[@thechugg4372]

​@@thedude6058ghostrunner exists already

[@MagicGonads]

I also have to wonder, there are many issues with analysis, incentives, and scale that plague large games, and the benefit of indie games is that they lack them

[@aevox2358]

I don't think you understood the point of the video. He isn't saying you should spend time "thinking" about ideas. He's talking about rapidly prototyping, and working smarter instead of harder. Often, the ideas we think will be fun end up not being as fun as we think. The best path to success is to fail early and often so that you really prove your idea instead of realizing you made a dud over halfway through development.

[@absence9443]

Helps heavily with game design decisions, excited to see your next project :)

[@ImpreccablePony]

I'm sorry but there's nothing wrong with making a clone of an existing successful game. Hell I would kill for a clone of let's say Sea Dogs. All you need to do to be better than Sea Dogs is just make it in 2024 instead of 2001 and voila. Not new but better.

[@richardhall5489]

My friend would have said the same thing. I'm not sure ever had an original idea in his life. He looks at how the leading players in his industry do things and copies that. Very very successful.

[@ImpreccablePony]

@@richardhall5489 People who could not come up with a username without numbers but talk shit about others who are not original enough:

[@HonsHon]

​@Isabel-pw6zuNo, you piece of shit. This is serious talk. Just kidding. It is getting heated in here lmao

[@Atezian]

Why are you sorry?

[@ImpreccablePony]

@@Atezian I'm sorry I don't know!

[@falkono]

you are one of the best game dev youtubers out there please never stop

[@PangolinMontanari]

It's weird to use Fortnite as an example of a daring development jump when they were riding the wagon that Playerunknown's Battlegrounds had set out on

[@AB-bh6rb]

It was a big jump from what they had and knew. To what they ended up with.

[@jean-baptistedeclerfayt8288]

Amazing and super helpful video Jonas! It's a very original and powerful way of dealing with gamedesign! I love it! :)

[@nangld]

Making an indie game is expressing yourself and your ideas. So you search for the resources for that expression. It is not about the best, but about being understood correctly. AAA games are about just making product the people will buy. So AAA games don't express ideas, but instead monetize of the patriarchy's insecurities and crave for violence, offering men an illusion of being say an all powerful dictator or a serial killer.

[@pingpenne9487]

Lady, 2016 was 8 years ago, it's not about the patriarchy.

[@hamc9477]

How does the game "Minesweeper" fit into this theory of yours?

[@guylemmer7707]

Everything in this video is true if you are a group of devs who enjoy making games but don't care what game you make as long as it means you bring in revenue. Its sort of true if you love making games and want to make the game you have always wanted to play yourself. You can apply the search to features, mechanics and systems while keeping your ultimate goal in mind, just... ummm... please do not test your features and systems in isolation, knowing how they interact is just as or even more important. Maybe I'm getting old but applying these formulaic approaches to games starts feeling like what paint by numbers does for an artist. Yeah you make money, and do what you enjoy doing, but do you get enjoyment from the thing you are making. For me being an indie dev is about being able to make the games you have passion and love for. If its just about doing what you enjoy and making money then go work for a AAA.

[@geekworthy7938]

You have 185,000 KZbin subscribers! Why are you still trying to understand why your program did well? More subs more sales! That's all!

[@angelluvslots]

please, PLEASE, use critical thinking here

[@geekworthy7938]

​@@angelluvslots Sure! Your reply was useless.

[@zokerino447]

lmao go get 185k subs if you really can do that, and then DARE to promote YOUR OWN WORK on YOUR OWN CHANNEL.

[@geekworthy7938]

@@zokerino447 and?

[@kingpiplup5258]

@@geekworthy7938name does not fit. His amazing feats are because of how he runs them. Telling him to stop trying to understand is like telling a successful businessman to stop looking at the numbers because he already owns a successful business. It just crashes and burns when you stop

[@realapppleC.E.O]

I really love this boat concept! it really helps understanding the problems and solutions in game dev with a boat analogy. I'm gonna send this video to my game design lecture from a Uni i used to study and hopefully they use it for classes.

[@chainingsolid]

Well done. This easily covered many separate bits of advice I had seen over the years. (Prototype often, playtest (valve's secret weapon), players only care about the final product, a game is the "sum" of its parts, you will scrap things, and even that when you set out to make X, you many end up fining out you should make something else so, do so!)

[@PKristianCZ]

hey, my programmer brain understands this, it is nice, thank you! i agree that scrapping your work is important, i am web developer arount 10 years and scrapping something i wrote aerlier become my routine.

[@cosmicrenegade]

I almost didn't watch this because of the plain thumbnail and vague title, but I'm SO GLAD I added this to my watch later and it auto-played this. An hidden gem of a video, and immensely helpful for me to understand. Good stuff!

[@KousseilaMd]

this is everything any gamedev needs/ wants to hear, i like ur visualization of the problems themselves and the solution etc this is widely helpful thanks for it bro

[@369TurtleMan]

“My game islanders” HUH??? That hit me out of nowhere man. Fantastic game. I was already liking the video but I won’t lie, I started appreciating your advice more after learning you have actual cred. A lot of indie game devs on KZbin lack the success and experience to back up their claims and statements.

[@cheaterman49]

You singlehandedly earned my subscription, in a single sub-30 mins video, and that's quite the achievement, congratulations and thanks for all the awesome tips :-)

[@ImaginaryComponent]

This is one of the best videos on the specific topic I've ever seen.

[@GamesBySaul]

What an absolutely fantastic video! Thank you for putting the time into this, this is brilliant. I love your section on multiple captains and how to overcome it, as that is a hard a one, but I think what you suggested really is the best, let both captains explore their own idea more and see where it leads, or let each captain have a go of the other's ship to see what happens

[@renakunisaki]

There's also "flip a coin, come back to the other spot later"

[@SirMasi]

This was an awesome essay that easily extends to other kinds of design! Two points blew my mind: 18:26 prototype art and gameplay separately and 21:34 address an impass by having the Captains switch POVs. Thanks for sharing!

[@Boomblox5896]

I like how logically sound this is and I can really appreciate the certainty of direction in how to refine and feel for a game you're trying to make so that it becomes as successful as possible, but oftentimes indie developers just wanna make a game that they want to make because they were inspired by something and they wanna see their personal creativity come to life. In that case, it doesn't matter how deep they go, maybe they just like to sit in the shallow waters because it's clean and pleasant.

[@ric4746]

This is a masterclass. This video is so important! Thanks for your work, and thanks for sharing your valuable experience! Funny thing, I feel like you made this video using the same advices you give in the video. You go to the very essential things, being very quick and efficient. No superfluous visuals, no superfluous words, even the ending, quick, concise, efficient. F*****g BRILLIANT.

[@frantiksemantix9589]

This video is gold!! Over the last 2 years I have struggled with just getting started on my game dev dream (tutorial hell and imposter syndrome). This information is what I needed to plot a course towards my first game. Thank you very much.

[@Phraxas52]

When I first saw this video, I thought I might be wasting my time because I could be working on a module of some kind or watching a more technical tutorial, but it turned out that this was incredibly beneficial to my approach. The multiple captains solution alone made the time worth it. Very well said, and thank you.

[@mikel-zzzz]

This is gold! and I would say most of these concepts are not only applicable to game dev, but most software projects (changing the specifics). Many thanks for creating this gem!!

[@Jiraton]

This is an eye-opening video ! More significant than the countless others I watched about gamedev for years. There are some points I'd partly disagree with, for instance, I'd not say the commmercial success of a game is entirely defined by its intrinsic qualities, but everything explained here is incredibly true and useful concepts ! Thank you so much for putting this together !

[@jeromezenker1300]

One of the best game dev videos I saw in a really long time! I work for a publisher & as a tutor and this will be for sure be send to more developers :D Amazing video & love the comparisons

[@oxenryd]

This is amazing!! Not only in game dev but in projects of most kinds. Shared, liked and life lessons learned!

[@matthew.wilson]

"Design is a search algorithm." This is why the best design and "creativity" so often feels like discovery of something existing. Our Engineering Design professor told us design was near impossible to teach because there was no single road map, but you've hit the nail on the head: That lack of map is the point; Design is a search. Thank you.

[@Alchimystic]

Probably the best video about game designing i 've ever seen (and i saw many in the last couple of years). There's a lot to digest here. I think this will really help me in deciding what kind of game i want to develop, and how to get there. Thank you!

[@Kehlvowen]

I've been writing code to automate work for a couple years now, been gaming since dad taught me to install Orcs & Humans on MS-DOS. Something about seeing your hand-drawn assets in the quick tower-defense prototype really just helped me get over the hurdle of being intimidated by missing assets. I've started a new prototyping project and it already feels so liberating with some of your points in mind. Thank you, sincerely.

[@dpxfpv]

This is brilliant man. Thank you for sharing. I feel like I instantly leveled up by watching this. Not just as an indie game developer, this applies to any project/business idea/startup. Again, thank you.

[@gludion]

This vidéo = instant classic!! You brilliantly (and visually) articulate what I've personnaly experienced in game design (and creativity), including mistakes :D

[@irgendjemand8221]

I am speechless. This was what I was looking for for the last few weeks. And it had so much more good hints than I could have ever asked for. Thank you!

[@derschildertyp3985]

This might be the best video on indie game dev I've ever watched. Thank you! Keep doing what you're doing, you're amazing.

[@RobbZot]

Loved the boat metaphor, really helps understand the logic behind the difficult task of Game Developing, I'd try applicating these ideas where I see fit, thank you

[@hatersgonnalovethis]

Man, I found your channel a couple of years ago when you were crunching all the sound bites into Will You Snail. You came a long way, Jonas.

[@Simon_Laserna]

Love the analogy to search algorithm, and using boats investigating fish & depth. Very solid advice, and well crafted communication of that advice. Thank you for putting this together, and sharing your knowledge!

[@davidsvezhintsev3073]

This video alone has literally put the entire game dev journey we had been going through for past 3 years into a new perspective. Incredible video Jonas! Thank you so much because you literally saved us.

[@Royal_official_gaming]

Very interesting video. I feel what you talk about is a wider version of a bottom-up approach (which is a similar process but for a specific game in research of game mechanics).

[@ankainn]

LOVE THIS. Thank you! Valve has many older videos where they talk EXACTLY ABOUT THIS! Specifically, Robin Walker interviews

[@PeterOeC]

Amazing explanation! I'm very much a beginner at game dev, but I'm a very experienced programmer (masters degree + 5 years of consultancy, though focusing on websites, web apis and databases). I've been pondering how experienced game devs think about prototyping, and this search algorithm explanation is exactly that! I've just gotta learn the fundamentals by trying out many prototypes/scouting boats, and see which ideas will flourish - and once I've got an idea, I know how to develop it further through prototyping! And I should use git, and try different prototype ideas seperately. You just earned another subscriber! Thanks for the explanation 😊

[@abwuds7208]

Although you're younger than me, and I'm quite an experimented game dev by trade, Let's be humble and admit that you are the stuff. This has tremendous value Jonas. Thank you

[@Th3-Mast3rmind]

This is basically a gold mine for game devs. I've come across a lot of these problems too and the advice you provide is really solid. A really well thought and highly informative video.

[@ryanzollinger]

I love the return of these little game dev video essays, they’re super informative and fun to watch!