Can You Tie for Turn Order in Mario Party?

[@amyroser]

Pretty cool that they thought ahead. Shows how much thought/care truly goes into making these games.

[@Dkrule1]

Or how much care use to go into these games

[@superyahoo1822]

This wasn’t thought ahead of. it defaults to controller order in a bunch of situations that would otherwise result in a tie if they didn’t build a tie into the situation

[@kidkamando]

It's more likely that each value is stored per player and read in that order (so, storing the player's result in an array at a coordinate equal to their port's position). Then, those values are sorted using a basic algorithm that only checks for values GREATER THAN the current one. Because they were already in port order, the result is that turn order matches port order. This isn't a "they thought of it" thing. It just wouldn't be efficient to store or sort the data much differently. Plus, the "default order" is just because the computer is reading the information until there is none, not that it cares whom it is for, which would be done in a simple For Loop.

[@StevenJones851]

​​@@Dkrule1the New Mario Party coming out in October will change your mind

[@StevenJones851]

Yeah and very smart

[@JCBro-yg8vd]

They actually thought of this and programmed a failsafe. That's pretty clever.

[@user-rc8ff9dw7o]

It's very basic design, lmao

[@user-coolestguy]

I expected it to crash

[@superyahoo1822]

@@user-coolestguy this would’ve almost never crashed the game because it just uses the order in which the values are stored to determine the order which is the port order in this case

[@theastonvillaseal585]

Basic tbf, and corrupt

[@rickylopez166]

So that’s why King Of Skill always Rolls first

[@Nyx_the_Dragon18]

Oh I see

[@rickylopez166]

@@Nyx_the_Dragon18 OH I SEE TOO NICK I SEE TOO

[@fidepulse]

"I will roll first as usual"

[@geenkaas6380]

@@fidepulse Mr krabs face

[@jaketno]

*Ecstatic gorilla noises

[@PixelTrainer.]

As a programmer myself, having a failsafe for the failsafe is honestly impressive and shows a ton of effort

[@Jason9637]

It isn't a failsafe, it just takes the first user that matches `roll == max(rolls)`

[@joebob13453]

>as a programmer myself this was unnecessary, it's common sense to know why the failsafe makes sense

[@ElianRandomWorks]

​@@joebob13453True, but as a programmer too, you have NO idea how common is to miss failsafes while codding, so I can really appreciate this LOL

[@niquel5831]

@@ElianRandomWorks For being programmers, you seemingly fail to realize this is not a failsafe, it's just the common implementation of the "return index of maximum element" function

[@ElianRandomWorks]

@@niquel5831 It can be but I doubt it, there's no reason to check whos the first player and then give him a bigger number if they match bc this never happens in real game. This can be done automatically tho by some other code, but no idea

[@MatthewSmart]

Well now I'm making sure I'm player 1 in every Mario Party seasion moving forward.

[@onikrux]

if port priority is the same as gamecube, then 1 is best over 2 and 3, but 4 is better than 1. it loops around in Melee.

[@RocketZX]

You missed the part that getting same dice number is IMPOSSIBLE, if player 4 rolled a 6, no one else can roll a 6, player order actually doesmt matter unless you CHEAT

[@monkegamingrealrealsotrue]

Lol I did not expect to hear marks say 7 from his historical famous bite of 87 joke

[@fictionalmediabully9830]

Always lovely to see Mario Party 3's visuals. It looks like "Yoshi Story" and "Paper Mario" meshed together.

[@MarioMastar]

Mario party 3 really did a lot of amazing things to make it stand out as one of the most memorable. I really wish Tumble became the default mascot of ALL Mario parties going forward like Starlow is the mascot of the Mario and Luigi games. Really is a shame the only Mario Party he appears in is Mario Party Advance. The variety is nice, but Tumble was MADE for Mario Party. Such a missed opportunity.

[@Coco-hq6ns]

Port priory escaped melee and is haunting me everywhere I go.

[@chimanruler15]

Yeah, I figured that if the rolled numbers were ever to be the same, then the port order would determine the turn order.

[@Lunar994]

I thought the game would softlock or something

[@chimanruler15]

@@Lunar994 If the game were incompetently designed, then yeah, it probably would softlock, but thankfully, Nintendo thought ahead. Not that I should be surprised. They were too experienced not to think ahead at that point in time. :)

[@Nzcade]

Yeah this is impossible, it has never occurred without cheats and the deva were very smart to think ahead of time and even do it just incase someone were to hack the results.

[@ComicSky]

Is it not possible to press A on 2 controllers at a frame perfect time?

[@lugismansion2400]

@@ComicSkyno because the dice rolls despite looking like you can choose the number are random for every dice

[@guywhoateallthepizza1031]

​@@ComicSky Refer back to Controller Port Priority

[@superyahoo1822]

@@ComicSky they still won’t be rolled at the same time because this is handled by the same part of the program so they roll 1 random number then remove it from the pool then roll the other. You wouldn’t see this because this happens within a single frame but computers always do things in a certain order

[@MarioMastar]

@@ComicSky It wouldn't be anyway, every frame (or I should say "cycle" the game is making calculations based on what's going on, if two players input the jump on the exact same frame, then it will simply check the dice roll for the first port's value, then set that, then remove the value, THEN check for the second one. All this stuff happens "on the same frame" from a human perspective, but that's what games really look like in code, just one super giant while(true) loop with subroutines and each "loop" ends on the game drawing the frame to present to the viewer to show what's going on. (that's also why you don't need the TV on to play the game, even if the game "checks what's on the screen" it doesn't really, it just checks the data for the image cached that's ultimately sent to the TV screen to be presented).

[@techpriestsalok8119]

I mean it might not even be deliberately programmed in. If you make the assumption that two players will never have the same number the algorithm may look like Take player 1s number, check if 2,3,4 have a higher number, if not player one goes first. Since 10 is not higher than 10 this results in player one going first. Then repeat. This results in the behavior we see but could be written entirely without considering ties.

[@MarioMastar]

Yeah mostly cause Computers can never do more than one function at a time (unless you do threading but...most games don't do that, it'd be a nightmare to keep things synced). So you're right, it just checks player 1 first, then player 2 and so on down the list in the array order, which is established by the port order cause it just is. XD

[@RocketZX]

P1 = 6, P2 = 6 If(p2 > p1) p2 is first Else p1 is first

[@gigiobigio0002]

"Pretty smart trick" Most basic thing in humanity

[@hoodedman6579]

Shout outs to the Eternal Star board in the first game, where you have to "battle" to get stars by rolling against a Koopa Kid; it's already heavily weighted towards you because your die only has 8-10, but I'm 99% certain that there also can't be a tie, so there's a 1/3 chance of you auto-winning, a 1/3 chance of you having an 8/9 chance of winning, and a 1/3 chance of you having a 7/9 chance of winning.

[@inybisinsulate]

Somewhere, deep in the cosmos on a planet surrounding Sol Kurt Angle KNOOOOOOWS he couldn't beat those odds. Also you lose on a tie it's a 10% chance to always lose, 30% to sometimes lose and 100% chance to win the map even when you don't rescue a star. Chance to win is 90-70 so rounded 80%

[@TheScrabbleKing]

@@inybisinsulateSeñor Mario, the numbers don’t lie, and they spell disaster for you in Mario Party!

[@tamertamertamer4874]

Funnily enough this might not even be a fail safe and just be that it gets the first instance of the largest number

[@LocalMaple]

If I programmed it, whoever clicked first goes first. If that too is a tie, then do port order.

[@MarioMastar]

Well you wouldn't program for a case that would/should never happen without deliberate tampering, as IF someone clicked first, then the tied number would be removed anyway. Keep in mind these functions are called EVERY cycle, not every visible frame. and there could be multiple cycles per draw frame, so in the event it reads both player 1 and 2's input at the exact same time, it just goes through the array and checks player 1 first, sees they have the highest number (there should be no equal cases and no other numbers are greater than 8) so player one goes first, then it checks player 2, same thing, no one else has a number higher than 8 so player 2 goes second since player 1 is already in the first slot. If they checked for equals, then they're checking for a condition which the player used a cheat device to cause equality, which sounds noble, but for determining turn order which is meant to be arbitrary, it's unnecessary.

[@ScarletSho]

It makes sense. Port order seemed to be Nintendo's work around for a lot of foreseeable issues like with Melee's port priority affecting gameplay that could end up resulting in awkard situations if 2 characters hit each other at the exact same time.

[@lemonadogirl4082]

Port priority is used as a tiebreaker in a few minigames as well, typically in the older titles (but less so MP1 where minigames would draw at the drop of a hat).

[@zackdiaz6375]

That’s exactly why I’m always mashing A to roll my dice first before someone else eliminates the 10 as an option

[@TheMistermastermario]

pretty sure the chance of winning is the same regardless of if who goes first the average roll if you go first is 5.5 the 10 possible average rolls if you go second are: 6, 5.888..., 5.777... 5.666..., down to 5.111... and then 5 depending on which number the first person got. If you add up all of these and average it out it goes back to 5.5 average, so your average roll is the same as player 1's

[@light738]

I love those mario party shorts with obscure info, keep em coming!

[@IgotJoClue]

That "7" lol Was that the Mario party of 87!?

[@TommyExacustides]

lol

[@Cera_01]

"This isnt possible in the base game, so we modded it so we could tell our own answer to the question we created"

[@ethansatterfield5958]

In the ds it can happen but it is rare. you have to roll again

[@nmotschidontwannagivemyrea8932]

I've played a lot of Mario Party DS and I don't recall it ever happening. Maybe I just don't remember, but I don't think they would remove the failsafe from the game just to implement a worse system.

[@MarioMastar]

@@nmotschidontwannagivemyrea8932 I think the person is thinking of some events where that can happen like if you tie in stars and coins in the end, you roll a dice block to determine who wins. I can see them removing the failsafe there because it'd be unfair if someone rolled a 9 first and you effectively had a 1 in 9 chance of being lucky enough to beat them because you were slower at the press. So you can tie there so you have a 1/10 chance of getting another shot at winning. I do recall seeing the same thing, where you can tie, I just don't remember exactly when it happened.

[@Sly88Frye]

Makes perfect sense. The fact that I've never seen two numbers be the same I had the feeling that they did program it to eliminate numbers once the blocks were hit.

[@Ridlay_]

It's 20XX, port priority now dominates the Mario Party meta, which is now the biggest esport in the world

[@MarioandJulius]

I always wanted to know what happened thanks for making this video

[@starwarriorterra8373]

When it comes to retro games and tie situations where a tie is not possible, port priority is almost always the answer. That assumption was not betrayed this time lol

[@MagicWorm321]

EEVEE YOU PICK-

[@CreativeUsername1997]

NO I PICK… goOOOoMBAAA

[@MagicWorm321]

@@CreativeUsername1997 😮

[@jmaster2930]

I luv how Yoshi the 🐐 won the duel there!😁💚

[@MusicandVG]

Just found your channel definitely Subbing, great vids!

[@petelee2477]

Here I thought the same solution used for tabletop games in real life would be sufficient for the game as well. Which is to just roll again.

[@MarioMastar]

No need to waste time in an electronic game. XD You'd have to deliberately program that in instead of just using default array read order which will just simplify the result. Sides turn order doesn't matter THAT much. If it did, they'd do like Sonic Shuffle and make turn order based on semi-skill/semi-luck minigames but Sonic Shuffle, turn order DOES matter since all four players move based on a pool of cards they pick a number from, so going last really hurts.

[@theastonvillaseal585]

Role at the same time perhaps

[@superiornicholas412]

I thought it was predetermined before you even roll.

[@MarioMastar]

It sort of is, it's determined by the current RNG seed and the RNG seed doesn't always update while the dice is spinning, it updates when the RNG cycle function is called, which can be from various other things going on. I think in this case, the seed is changed every frame to avoid players having the chance of the same number, but in the main game, it is only called when something happens that calls the function. Which is kind of why the turn order rolls are laggy.

[@1mariomaniac]

Honestly... I thought it'd just lock up lol. Neat that they had that function in place though even though it'd normally never appear.

[@bigpoggers6507]

GODDAMN IT, I CANT ESCAPE IT, PORT PRIORITY RETURNS

[@awesomeocelot7475]

I could’ve sworn that actually happening to me in a later Mario party game and it was just a second roll off for the tying 2 players.

[@galaticdeffender9590]

Same it was in one or two

[@awesomeocelot7475]

@@galaticdeffender9590 it had to be later I never played the N64 ones until NSO

[@BaconNuke]

I wonder if the failsafe was programmed in first and later someone was like "what if we just remove the number?" since... *every* other roll iirc can tie so it feels more likely they would have started with universal ties and only later alter some things

[@TheFinalChapters]

Nah, it's not even a failsafe to begin with. It's probably just sorting the players from highest to lowest, assuming the numbers are all different. The fact that they aren't doesn't change the end result of an order being decided.

[@JackSpadeVT]

"Was that the 7?" -Markiplier, sorta

[@raymondison1677]

50 player Mario Party gonna be crazy when Jamboree comes out

[@TheRealGregariousGreg]

Now what if every player was in the same port?

[@Nano12123]

Oh, geeze. Markiplier scared me

[@Mr_questionman]

Fun fact: in Mario party 1 the numbers are generated im an order for example 3765 the first player to hit the dice gets 3 second gets 7 and so on

[@MarioMastar]

Yeah cause of the way RNG seeds work, you can always determine the order of RNG if you know the start seed and algorithm used and exactly when it's updated. That's what makes TASing possible. No game is truly "random" but developers will include many arbitrary calls to the seed to make it as unpredictable as possible.

[@VeryRandomStuff361]

for some reason i expected when someone gets a number it gets removed

[@Mlaatrtmntgarfield99]

All 4 players jump at the exact same time, it may work 🤔

[@MarioMastar]

Hehe no, it'll apply P1' number first, then P2, then P3, then P4. P1 will get their number set, then it will remove the number from the list, advance the RNG seed and THEN check P2's roll. This all happens within the same cycle it detects the jump has been made. so we're not talking about visible frames like most people think, we're talking programming cycles or "loops" as every game runs on a "master loop" and that can run as fast as you like, only drawing the screen image once every 30 or 60 times a second (whatever the processor can accomplish).

[@Homedepotorange]

This is why I always take port 4. Instant John when I get 4th as always

[@FTHLSS]

Thank you for solving my curiosity, i was watching one of smii7y mario party video and got me thinking "what happen if all the player or just 2 player got the same number?"

[@ShanLovesReading]

Ankther fun little fact! I dont know how many people saw this happen, but a friend and i tied for coins and stars on Mario Party 2 game back in 2021, and it sent us to a dice-rolling tie breaker. We looked at one another and our friends in the room, i told her to go first, she pulls a 10, the room erupts, i go and roll a 9, and everyone lost their d*mn shit. We didnt even know that a coin-and-star tie was possible until then

[@Cocreator2-gu3hs]

Yoshi is secretly Markiplier

[@guillermoduncan2060]

I only could think of two possibilities: a crash or port priority. I would not think programmers would add a special event in case of a tie if they specifically programmed that there couldn’t be any ties.

[@MarioMastar]

Crashes only happen if there's a error on the programmer's part OR the programmer deliberately chooses to call an exception. If the game crashed because two players had the same value for the turn order, that would mean the developer is acknowledging the player has used a cheat device to hack the game to make it possible and is crashing it as a warning not to modify the game logic. The reason it doesn't crash by default is because all it's doing is checking each player's roll in order and checking IF the number others rolled is "GREATER THAN" their roll, NOT "greater than or equal to". That's why it's based on port order. Player one gets checked first, then player 2, then 3, then 4 and they're merely added to the turn order array in turn order.

[@guillermoduncan2060]

@@MarioMastar I understand the logic of the program. But sometimes this kind of hacks provoke infinite loops because an event or condition was not intended to happen, causing a softlock or a crash, and it would no be a programming mistake because that event was programmed to not happen.

[@SpecterVonBaren]

Oh no... I'm stuck in an eternal loop! HELP!

[@kyledinsmore9984]

And that’s why the older sibling gets player 1

[@Lathzer]

Dk looked Devious

[@RecorBruv]

The music in the background is the Mario Party 3 File select Calming right?

[@loganroman5658]

Meanwhile the 11st player in a modded 11 player mario party: 👁👄👁

[@AlgaInventory]

Daisy's original design😍🥺💔

[@wariopide]

I know it's off topic, but those models just show how Daisy was hydentical to peach

[@Nameless-ny8nk]

I fully expected the game to just crash or softlock lol

[@excaliburofgachagames9241]

Be cool if a free for all minigame played to determine turn order. Be a great start to the game.

[@MarioMastar]

Sonic Shuffle does that, but in Sonic Shuffle, turn order matters, in Mario Party, it kind of doesn't. I think Pac Man Fever also uses a minigame to determine turn order, but for every turn since your placement determines how far you move each turn.

[@kiran0019]

Its a failsafe for the failsafe😂

[@Players_1500]

That's what I was thinking.

[@nelsonreyes-alvarez605]

Yeah I knew already like 5 years ago the at they did this because why else would they not? I mean even for the tie at the end as well! The game doesn’t know what to do due to the numbers being the same, and the game doesn’t program anything other than just going in the player number order(1,2,3,4) which would be unfair. So that’s why they did that to remove a number that a player has already gotten.

[@MisterVercetti]

It kind of makes me wonder: if two players were to hit the dice block on the exact same frame, would the failsafe fail to kick in? Is there a secondary failsafe built in to induce a frame lag on one of the controllers if two are hit at the exact same time? This would be an interesting thing to test with TAS tools.

[@altermike3197]

Gotta love port priority

[@God_part_2]

Now program it so everyone is play 1

[@Petal316]

This is why people getting low rolls on turn order is better for you, because if they role 3 6 7, you have a 3/7 chance to roll higher, but if they roll 4 8 9 that’s only a 1/7 chance to go first!

[@danielyuan9862]

So other players rolling low numbers increases your chances of getting the largest number?

[@Petal316]

@@danielyuan9862 yep! Because people can’t roll the same number for turn order, the other people getting low numbers increases your chances of getting a higher number! Say the enemies rolled a 2 3 and 4? Well the only numbers you can get are 1 5 6 7 8 9 10! Meaning you have a 6/7 chance of getting a higher number, and a 1/7 chance to go last!

[@YllerobLikesMemes]

in super marion party (yes ik everybody hates that game) theres a two player mode, wich means that the first team rolls 4 and 3 wich makes 7 and the other team rolls 6 and 1 wich is also 7, what happens

[@MarauderVN]

Lets be honest, who doesnt know that numbers are removed

[@Leostar-Regalius]

except I've seen people tie on the roll, it was some of the vanoss crew

[@kennycarter5682]

they likely do this for the newer mario party games too even the ones on switch

[@Sephiroth08150]

I mean, it technically could happen of everyone hits the dice on the exact same frame, but that's impossible to do in practice. CPU always have a delay between them and four frame perfect inputs on four different controllers. Possible, but very unlikely.

[@hedgehogpower194]

If i remember correctly this happened to me in Mario Party DS It happened years ago so i can't remember that much

[@Marz776]

It's always the port priority...

[@swishyb]

i cant believe i never noticed that nobody ever ties at the turn order roll 😮

[@AkwaDoll]

i've heard about the controller port order from smash melee!

[@ilDSttaro]

Maybe it is a false memory, but I remember that in the first, maybe another, Mario Party, happened a die tie, and the game just made me go first cause I was P1.

[@chalir4886]

Bro speaking yappanese fluently

[@RocketZX]

Pretty sure the game like "p1 dice > p2 dice" If both are 10 its still false, programming is fun

[@Adjo1991]

Legit thought they would re roll

[@Drew_D]

Interesting. 😁

[@TheScrabbleKing]

Now I wonder what would happen on the Eternal Star stage in MP1 then if (with cheats ofc) Baby Bowser and the player tied in their rolls 🤔

[@trystonkincannon8320]

Nice N64 secret their.

[@rainbowphoenix1363]

See nintendo is smart and always employs failsafes for their games so their games don't crash and burn

[@nerdynerd6724]

I might be speaking through my bottom, but for some reason, I have the faintest memory of tying and rerolling. Idk I might be making stuff up.

[@ezshandy0186]

Me: rolls an 10 you can tied with it by rolling I’m saiding that to my brother The Game: I’m ruining this man carrer

[@YoungMrBlue]

I was hoping the game would just crash

[@etherealbladerx8153]

Looks like cat videos and black gurl magick didn't help the Marvels 😂🤣❤

[@eliahorellana9242]

I thought everyone knew that they made the failsafe????

[@alexholley2712]

So if your 3 friends each got 1-3, you're guaranteed to go first

[@raycat3764]

So basically those has player 1 control has far better chances...

[@justinevilofficial]

Markiplier 🥵

[@nicopro0807]

now what happend if 2 or more players tie at the end of the party game? (Same stars/Same coins/Same bonus stars)

[@LenaSpark412]

They should have made it possible and made it a duel

[@Thing_of_somes]

I wonder if it is possible if you press the A button at the exact same time? 🤔 but without TAS we’ll never know

[@cmndrkool321]

So it benefits to hit the dice block first.

[@Angry_Jetpack]

I am curious about what happens if two players end with the same amount of Stars and Coins. Does the game end in a tie? Does a duel minigame happen to decide the winner? I am not sure and think testing on my own would be much more difficult than if someone else were to test with cheats.

[@FireSonicYT]

you get to roll when a tie happens. i believe i've had it happen once myself.

[@Angry_Jetpack]

@@FireSonicYT well that is the fastest way to end a friendship

[@ktheboss5879]

What would happen if you hit the blocks at the exact same time. It wouldn’t have time to remove those numbers right?

[@poppip10]

Hmmm… I’ve always wondered what the game does when this happens! …It’s port priority, isn’t it?

[@Mage_Nichlas_]

So what happens if the players hit the Dice Block on the same frame?

[@DWEEB-FIX]

Doesnt Mario Party 1 (and possibly the other n64 era MP games) pre-determine your turn order dice roll before its been selected?

[@nikolaichejov5526]

What happens if 2 or more players hit the dice block on the same frame?

[@banzaialex5984]

I honestly thought the game would just crash