Canon R5II vs Nikon Z8: a different take...

[@visionz_n_media]

When you only shoot for fun, the latest and greatest gear will always trump everything. When you actually use these cameras for work, you learn how to use them in every scenario that you need them in. Majority of ppl will never fully utilize an R5ii, or Z8. I’ve had the Z8 for almost a year. I use it for portraits and wildlife and still have not utilized its full potential.

[@williambuford6136]

You will miss the features the manufactures could have added but you will not notice the features you do not use. These high end cameras are the jack of all trades and they do perform at a price.

[@randallbrander8157]

Testing the Sony A7RV, Canon R5II and Z8 or Z9 Photos and Video. Focusing, Stabilization and finding the best features from all of the cameras. Glass is still more important than the cameras. In the end I enjoy each camera so far. Having a Great Time! Cheers!

[@joeyret.617]

Like your video thanks. I don't shoot basketball or any ball sports, but I shoot surfing events, and I can tell you, the videos and stills are spot on using my z8 with Nikkor z 180-600mm. Impressed with how sticky (have set to 4) CAF is when the surfer's face is behind splashing water. Brilliant.

[@williambuford6136]

Preach it. I think this is your best video ever. I think you see what Mckinnon is saying between the lines of his video. Wow, Flash Sync speed increase and menu clean up for Nikon would do wonders for the brand. The Z6iii release menu, why is it not that same as the Z8. Using that Z6iii made me miss my Nikon D500s controls on the Body and not having to go to the menus as often. I never felt that way using the Z8. Some menus options are similar between the cameras, but some are not. Nikon seems to have separate teams designing each camera. They do not talk to the other teams until they are ready to go to production. The menus are something a firmware release can fix. Flash Sync speed I believe has to be a design requirement for the camera. Nikon needs to working the Wifi Connectivity for the Z family of cameras. That Snapbridge app needs some love!! I really like your analysis of the Canon R5ii and the Nikon Z8!

[@FramesTM]

Oh thank you William!

[@dreadnoughtphotowerkz]

What could be better? 5g Wifi, especially for the R1, because I shoot sports. This way, I send the required photos to the editors quicker when I'm not near a LAN line.

[@FramesTM]

Good one

[@petersuvara]

What can we do better? I think Wifi/5G connection for live broadcasting IN CAMERA would be perfect. Especially true of vlogging cameras.

[@FramesTM]

Good one

[@Vladi_mir_M]

Very good point Frames! Coming from BM (since 2020) and Nikon (since 2008) I've ordered a z8 two days before R5m2 presentation 😂 I'm sure I won't regret it

[@Stondiexd]

The codecs in the z8 destroys canon 🤷🏾‍♀️ The face only autofocus on the z8 is also amazing aswell. I only do video so if I was to go back to canon I would get the c80 at this point

[@glennn.3464]

Good observations and balanced, common sense discussion. And I agree, I don’t know why Nikon hasn’t given us some features I feel the hardware of the Z8 & Z9 can handle such as pre-capture in RAW and higher frame rates in RAW. Even if it meant shooting in High Efficiency* in order to lower the data rate so that we could get at least 30fps and not run into buffering issues writing to the fastest CFexpress B 2.0 cards currently supported.

[@FramesTM]

Yes. It’s just that pre shooting will reduce the life/ durability of the internal memory chip. So I wouldn’t use unless absolutely needed. But we can have the option open and Nikon should educate how that feature can diminish life of the memory chip inside.

[@joeyret.617]

Looks like we are going to get our wish of pre-capture raw with an update for the z9, z8 by the end of the year.

[@astromoosie]

I don’t know if it’s possible but I would love open gate with a firmware update.

[@darylhermann3792]

I just got the R5ii and previously had an R5 but now I’m thinking of returning it for a more than capable Z8 and why I’ll tell you why… Third party lens support. I want the Tamron 35-150 F2-2.8. Sounds like a beautiful lens Nikon primes. I love the new 1.4’s that are coming out. Don’t care about canons hybrid lenses. Nikon lenses seem better build quality, less plastic, canon lenses are more plastic. Nikon lenses cost a bit less. Nikon lenses on telephotos have lower apertures which is a plus. On to the camera. Do I need 30 fps no 20 fps is fine. I hate the flippy screen. I like the tilting Nikon screen I can tilt it and stay center of composition still. Not have to pull out the flip screen then turn it around. I just wish Nikon had 2 side by side AF back buttons or maybe 3 like canon. And I also wish it had a back thumb wheel. But I like the Nikon left top buttons. What you think should I go return the R5ii and get the Nikon Z8 or Z9 Tell me what you think

[@TheTigers00001]

What can we do better? How about a huge increase in dynamic range? How about even better high ISO RAW noise? Both of these things have gone backwards in the R5 MkII compared to the R5 which is quite incredible.

[@FramesTM]

Absolutely! I don’t want them to discontinue the R5!

[@photographydiscourse1185]

Hi Frames: Interesting take, and for the most part I agree. That said, I think that the R5II is as much as it needed to be to keep Canon people happy and in the Canon system, which is all it really had to do. Its clear that it will not get any Nikon people to go to Canon and likewise it will not likely get Sony people to go Canon (although the latter is more likely than the former). In the end, the R5II is an incremental update to the R5 but it is important to remember that the R5 was already an industry leading camera and came out 4 years ago. I think the R5II is good enough to justify an upgrade for many users and that is all that it had to do. It needed to compete with the Z8, but it did not need to best the Z8 to be a success. I am sure this camera will sell very well. Likewise the R1 - that so many people are down on - is also, IMO a solid offering for what it is intended to do/be. Canon, unlike Nikon and Sony, decided to keep the flagship as a lower MP high speed beast like all the flagships of old, and for most pro sports shooters this is a good choice. I have heard many Nikon people (including one Nikon Ambassador who told me personally) that they would have preferred the Z9 have been a 24 MP camera. I am not sure how I feel about this personally, but I do understand this logic for a sports shooter. The Z8 is perfect, but the Z9 could have been lower MP and it might have appealed to more people - I don't know. Either way, I think that both the R1 and the R5II were good offerings for what Canon was trying to accomplish with each: R1 - to get pro-sports shooters (and that is about it), and R5II to keep all the R5 people, which they undoubtedly will. -PD

[@FramesTM]

I agree with you. Especially on the point that R5 was years ahead.

[@jonasgillmann]

@@FramesTM The most disappointing part is that 4K60p is still NOT 8K oversampled! Even the old R5C had 8K oversampled 4K60p and Nikon had 8.6K oversampled 4K60p years ago BUT Canon artificially limits the R5 II and still limits oversampled 4K to 30fps (4K Fine / 4KHQ) like in the four year old R5 even though the R5C has proven that their image processor is capable of 8K oversampled 4K60p. I never thought that Canon would artificially limit the R5 II in such a disappointing way! I hope they’ll release a firmware update to the R5 II at least matching what they did with their years old R5C. The R5 II needs full sensor readout 8K oversampled 4K60p or it’ll be inferior to their old R5C and Nikon. Please update the firmware Canon!!!!

[@prokremelskidezolati1426]

@@jonasgillmann The most disappointing are idiots, who post the same sh.t over and over again.

[@prokremelskidezolati1426]

"In the end, the R5II is an incremental update to the R5" - certainly not in an AF department

[@photographydiscourse1185]

@@prokremelskidezolati1426 Overall, It absolutely is an incremental improvement. The advances in AF (i.e. soccer, volleyball and basketball mode) are very niche and will not be used by the majority of users. Even those that do will not get significantly more shots than those that know how to shoot sports in the first place with normal tracking tech. Plus, every company will have this feature in their next iteration of camera - Nikon possibly will in a firmware update to existing cameras so if this is the thing that you think is making the R5II more than incremental then you are mistaken. That all said, as I have stated, the R5II is everything that Canon needed it to be and they will be very successful with it - as they should be. it is by all rights a very good camera! -PD

[@sebastianberes]

I'm happy to see you getting more balanced than a year ago. Personally, I'm not thrilled with the R5 II mainly because of the price, it got bigger (R5 + RF 100-500mm is already a very tight fit inside Shimoda Medium Mirrorless Core Unit), and yet we are to learn about its IQ when real reviews are published. My problem with changing the system is the number of RF lenses I own, it would be a large financial hit. Ps. I see that pink again crawling into your colour grading :)

[@FramesTM]

Aah, the lighting was wrong.. had a tough time fixing it in post!

[@jonasgillmann]

The most disappointing part is that 4K60p is still NOT 8K oversampled! Even the old R5C had 8K oversampled 4K60p and Nikon had 8.6K oversampled 4K60p years ago BUT Canon artificially limits the R5 II and still limits oversampled 4K to 30fps (4K Fine / 4KHQ) like in the four year old R5 even though the R5C has proven that their image processor is capable of 8K oversampled 4K60p. I never thought that Canon would artificially limit the R5 II in such a disappointing way! I hope they’ll release a firmware update to the R5 II at least matching what they did with their years old R5C. The R5 II needs full sensor readout 8K oversampled 4K60p or it’ll be inferior to their old R5C and Nikon. Please update the firmware Canon!!!!

[@prokremelskidezolati1426]

​@@jonasgillmann The most disappointing are idiots, who post the same sh.t over and over again.

[@petercreagh8797]

When I was looking for a backpack for my R7 and 200-800 zoom I looked at the biggest Shimoda backpack but for much less I got a Tenba Cinelux backpack that I have been very happy with. It does need extra padding as its designed for commercial video cameras. There is no attachment for a tripod though.

[@dance2jam]

1st: I think for most Canon R5 stills shooters (which I would venture to say makes up the majority-I haven't seen R5 video flooding KZbin) that the biggest additions to the R5 Mark ii are going to be the stacked sensor (faster readout), no penalty for shooting higher FPS (i.e. a drop in bit-depth), better AF, and some of the features of the body itself. I'm sure Canon will be fine, but their reliance on fabricating their own sensors, it appears, is starting to slow down their ability to compete (especially in video - where Canon was the standard among the "top three" camera companies). The R3, when it was released, didn't make sense to me (as a Nikon shooter) - and I would have thought something along those lines as an DX/Crop sensor would have been a great asset to sports, wildlife, action shooters. Once the R5 Mark ii makes it into shooters hands, we will see - but the R1 makes the R3 irrelevant, and is the all around workhorse, where the R1 will be specialized for some. I know a lot of people said that about the Sony a9iii, and I have 2 friends that have that camera and love it - as a backup camera for BIF. Interesting times.

[@natureredux1957]

So basically every User will use a given camera for what they Feel is the best case usage. However the notion that more folks will tend to shoot high End Video before most would want and need high End AF just falls on it face. Nor do folks just want to watch with their Eyes which is why they buy Cameras. I came across this comment elsewhere, "I was hesitant initially to upgrade from the a7riv to the a7rv, but am glad that I did. It wasn't the bird-eye focus that sold me, it was looking through the viewfinder and the back-screen and being able to SEE the birds in the field that made up my decision. I'm amazed and delighted!" However it does not have to be Wildlife, the same can be applied to sports. So the upgraded EVF in the z6iii might be a Godsend to certain users.

[@FramesTM]

Very mature pov

[@dennis.oosthuizen]

Great comparison; I love it. I have both Canon and Nikon cameras, but I always use my Nikon cameras if I want great and reliable results. I love my Z8 and cannot see any significant advantage of getting the R5 mkii. I will instead spend the money on better lenses for the Z8.

[@thomaslopez2427]

I am a sports photographer so I'm really curious about the AI technology in the Canon R5 II specifically for volleyball and basketball. If this technology follows the players that currently have the ball as they are stating it will then that will definitely be a game changer! I have been able to nail great shots with the R5 but if the Mark II has advanced technology such as that then this will definitely be helpful.

[@TPD605]

I want two of the same cards in a camera. I would have loved the R5ii to have two CF Express Type B cards. I would love if Sony would embrace the CF Express Type B cards and make them the same. I don't know why camera manufacturers mix and match cards. If you use SD cards in a body, make two of the same SD slots in the lower priced cameras. If you use CF Express Type B, make them both the same in the higher priced models. It is ridiculous that only the flagship cameras have two of the same memory card type. Thank you for this video. You have stated everything that I have been feeling about camera manufacturers.

[@csc-photo]

Personally, given the choice of 2 SD's or a CFE-B + SD, I'm definitely choosing the latter. It's a very convenient and flexible setup. CFE-B for its reliability and speed, and SD for easy backup and direct transfer to laptop (many of which have SD slots, no reader necessary).

[@livejames9374]

What do you use to record these videos?

[@CraigEggleton]

alwasy enjoy your takes.

[@FramesTM]

Thank you Craig!

[@stripes_in_raw]

Nikon are limiting 20 fps because the AF can't keep up with 14 bit RAW above that. Even the A9iii struggles above 20fps, see Wild Alaska's videos. But Nikon needs a new battery to work with older cameras like Z8/Z6iii. Can you please do a photo review of the Z6iii in low light, without the presence of any artificial light like early morning & late evening wildlife ? And also backlit images, by protecting the highlights and bringing out the shadows later in Lightroom. I am unable to get a demo unit or a demo in my locality. I wanted to buy a low light body along with the Z8 but seems there are currently no options with the new AF system. The Z6iii seems a hesitant choice for low light 😢 body

[@FramesTM]

Have stuff. Getting ready.

[@williambuford6136]

Interesting post! I agree Nikon needs a new battery. Hopefully Nikon will not follow Canon locking out features without the new battery.

[@williambuford6136]

@@FramesTM Can't wait to see your video. Love to see it more the Z6iii in a more realistic low light setting. I have used my Z6iii in blue hour and did not have any trouble with focus using the Z85 f1.2 and the Z28-75 f2.8 in the 3D tracking mode.

[@ptvfr800]

I want to see ‘find my camera’ tracking, similar to that on phones! this would help to combat theft..

[@ptvfr800]

disagree about R8, I don’t need the extra’s offered with R6ii , I hear people whinge about battery life but it takes me less than ten seconds to pull a new battery from my pocket and install it! I have also fitted the RP battery grip and it works flawlessly. after 12 months owning R8, I have no regrets..

[@nigerian-nightmare]

You spent more time bashing Canon than comparing the two cameras. Though I agreed with most of the things you said.

[@jklbd4815]

Good, balanced review

[@FramesTM]

Thank you 🙏

[@felm.974]

Too much analyzing with all due respect lol.. I can do everything with my Z8 and ZF, I have zero complain about my Nikon and Nikor lenses, I don't look over the fence to see if my neighbors garden looks better, I am happy with mine :)

[@latasharma2098]

Great

[@bryllupmiami3499]

The z8 has over heated on me 3 times here in Miami shooting on the beach

[@martzallmedia]

Bad card?

[@natureredux1957]

Nobody should be shocked that Canon is lagging somewhat behind to Companies that either need Sony to either have their own Sensor Designs built and or some combination thereof what Sony already has. But it's not nearly the defacto shot against Canon that some seemly want to make it out to be either. Canon is slowly but surely catching up and we are FAST approaching far more Video Specs then most would ever use. I have many times stated it's better to Have and not Need then Need and not have. But your Video slash AF analogy is a BAD one. Do you even understand how many Soccer Moms and DADS there are in the World. Most are certainly going to want the BEST possible AF as opposed to the Best possible Video Specs. Almost nobody is running around shooting 8K regardless of Brand but plenty of folks are running around shooting their Kids playing whatever Sport that are currently playing. Side note, Rumor has that Nikon might also soon be Building a Factory to build and design their own Sensors making the Big Three Brands essential Whole again.

[@FramesTM]

I suspect the moms won’t buy the R5ii. And she will be interested in her kid, not in photographing the actual sport.

[@natureredux1957]

@@FramesTM Every Soccer Mom and DAD want tons of pictures of their Kids playing. Regardless which sport they are playing. Never heard of a parent that did not want to both watch and have ton of pictures. Humans can multitask. Canon's AF system mostly trickles down to the next generation of their cameras, so it's not like they have to buy a R5ii.

[@jonasgillmann]

@@natureredux1957 The most disappointing part is that 4K60p is still NOT 8K oversampled! Even the old R5C had 8K oversampled 4K60p and Nikon had 8.6K oversampled 4K60p years ago BUT Canon artificially limits the R5 II and still limits oversampled 4K to 30fps (4K Fine / 4KHQ) like in the four year old R5 even though the R5C has proven that their image processor is capable of 8K oversampled 4K60p. I never thought that Canon would artificially limit the R5 II in such a disappointing way! I hope they’ll release a firmware update to the R5 II at least matching what they did with their years old R5C. The R5 II needs full sensor readout 8K oversampled 4K60p or it’ll be inferior to their old R5C and Nikon. Please update the firmware Canon!!!!

[@prokremelskidezolati1426]

@@jonasgillmann The most disappointing are idiots, who post the same sh.t over and over again.

[@csc-photo]

Well, based on my observations while shooting school sports - parents love their cell phone cameras. Rough number, 1 out of 20 parents bring a “real” camera to games. And out of those that do, kit gear. Once in a great while there’s an Uncle Bob with maybe an R6 and grip, and a decent long lens. But so rare.

[@chuckg4947]

Hi Frames you need to do a video to counter Tony Northrup’s latest video on the Nikon Z6 iii! It’s his typical video bashing Nikon!

[@FramesTM]

Probably

[@marqman05]

Agreed, I check to a point where I went back and watched old videos on how he talks about other cameras.. and to me it seems that he goes a little harder on Nikon. Like if Nikon has something that is good it there is an asterisk to it appose to the other camera companies.

[@chuckg4947]

@@FramesTMplease do it because you are always highly intellectual and factual when responding to Nikon trashing videos.

[@prokremelskidezolati1426]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6iZZWqvl7Cfbs0

[@jonasgillmann]

The most disappointing part is that 4K60p is still NOT 8K oversampled! Even the old R5C had 8K oversampled 4K60p and Nikon had 8.6K oversampled 4K60p years ago BUT Canon artificially limits the R5 II and still limits oversampled 4K to 30fps (4K Fine / 4KHQ) like in the four year old R5 even though the R5C has proven that their image processor is capable of 8K oversampled 4K60p. I never thought that Canon would artificially limit the R5 II in such a disappointing way! I hope they’ll release a firmware update to the R5 II at least matching what they did with their years old R5C. The R5 II needs full sensor readout 8K oversampled 4K60p or it’ll be inferior to their old R5C and Nikon. Please update the firmware Canon!!!!

[@FramesTM]

Yes, no Idea why they’re holding back. It’s a bit annoying, especially for loyal base who have said okay to no 3rd party lenses even

[@jonasgillmann]

@@FramesTM I want competition for Nikon and Sony so I hope that Canon will bring 8K oversampled 4K60p to the R5 Mark II with a firmware update. Artificially crippling your camera to sell more older R5C cameras is horrible for the customers. Canon never fails to disappoint… but there is time to fix it with a firmware update! It would be good for the entire camera industry if Canon brought 8K oversampled 4K60p to the R5 Mark II with a firmware update.

[@isotechimages.9130]

Really Frames you are resorting to fanboy videos, Canon have coped a lot of criticism for these releases if they were Nikon releases you guys would be over the moon and partying on the streets saying they are best features ever, you are too smart to put out this content get back to more positive stuff.

[@FramesTM]

Sorry. You’re dead wrong. Fro, Matt granger, Tony, angry photographer, Taylor Jackson, and the list goes on. They were all Nikon only shooters. They heavily criticised Nikon and shifted to systems. You gotta be factual. I have been a fanboy? Find the untruth in the video and slam me. Thanks

[@isotechimages.9130]

@@FramesTM it just KZbinrs constantly doing videos on this brand’s features are better than that brand, the fact is every brand brings something to the table another brand doesn’t why can’t we just celebrate the choice we have & just shoot with the brand that suits us rather than my brand is better than your brand they just not interesting videos.

[@truthseeker6804]

it seems youre a canon hater. Peter was just being fair, these cameras have really reached peak. if you want internal ND, go for c400. these tiny mirrorless full frame cameras would become big with internal ND. also you claim a9iii would be better in AF than these r5ii, and z8/z9 is closer to a9iii. shows clear bias. you dont even have the camera to make the comparison. secondly, i wasnt a sport photographer until i got r6ii 40fps, and i actually begun to do sports and wildlife photography and i enjoy it. i never did them in the past. better autofocus is pleasing to use. regardless of its its 3 sports, its a good start. you seem to not appreciate anything canon has done but just find ways to hate.

[@FramesTM]

Hate is a strong work friend. It’s just an object. But yes, given what everyone is offering, Canon seems to be holding back the most while charging a premium.

[@rvairocker]

I agree here with frames , canon is holding stuff for the price they are offering it, we can assume that he hates Canon but speaking the truth in most parts not every part, but that is good for us consumers, canon listens to us they can include that in coming firmware updates. We need to ask for the price we pay, if not more at least all the things competitors are giving in their cameras for the same price Customers would love it if they could give an open gate recording, 4k 120 raw lite, 4k 60 oversampled, external recording with an SSD, Pro res recording options, change waveform positions, pinch in zoom while recording like Sony and Fujifilm, etc, that are more useful for us as a consumers

[@FramesTM]

@rvairocker absolutely! I have no business ‘hating’ an inanimate object. I dislike people like Tony who just lie. I am not lying here. I stated facts. Plz judge me on that. Question is am I cherry picking! No! On the other hand, Nikon doesn’t offer quite a few things that you have just mentioned, and I need it from Nikon. Period.

[@Digmen1]

Hi Frames, I always enjoy your vidoes, but could I suggest that you speak a bit slower when covering the really technical stuff codecs and lenses etc, as your accent is a bit hard to understand for most people.

[@FramesTM]

Yes great suggestion! I might even try to copy that American accent by rolling the ARRs 😅

[@jonasgillmann]

@@FramesTMI’m from Germany 🇩🇪 and I watch all your videos on 2x speed so you could speak even faster if you asked me 😂 But maybe Digmen1 can simply switch to 0.75x speed so it’s a little slower. Let me say one thing about the R5 II though The most disappointing part is that 4K60p is still NOT 8K oversampled! Even the old R5C had 8K oversampled 4K60p and Nikon had 8.6K oversampled 4K60p years ago BUT Canon artificially limits the R5 II and still limits oversampled 4K to 30fps (4K Fine / 4KHQ) like in the four year old R5 even though the R5C has proven that their image processor is capable of 8K oversampled 4K60p. I never thought that Canon would artificially limit the R5 II in such a disappointing way! I hope they’ll release a firmware update to the R5 II at least matching what they did with their years old R5C. The R5 II needs full sensor readout 8K oversampled 4K60p or it’ll be inferior to their old R5C and Nikon. Please update the firmware Canon!!!!

[@prokremelskidezolati1426]

"The A9iii would be better in AF than these R5 II and z8/z9 is closer to A9 II" looooooooooooool

[@FramesTM]

Sure, the market is frustrated with the AF and the Z9, A1 and A9iii users will now change to R5ii because of subpar af. Haha good morning, wake up.

[@prokremelskidezolati1426]

@@FramesTM maybe the Z8 and Z9 users who would like the camera to focus on the eyes, not the eyelashes, cheeks, or in the case of birds, the beak, lol

[@OracleTestlab]

@@prokremelskidezolati1426 Sounds like you are not sure what you are talking about. I'm Using Z8 since it came. Excellent in autofocus, beak eyelash could be 1 out of 100 or photographers problem. Every camera/photographer does that. Remember Autofocus may work excellent when you shoot, but your actual outcome might not be as you expected depending on environment, iso value, lens condition your camera setting, physical exhaustion etc. Shoot a full day in the forest or swamp you will know what it cakes to grab a perfect photo even if you got 5000 photos, real countable photos are always only a handful. And this is applicable for every photographer and every brand.

[@FramesTM]

Yes, my Z8 always focuses on the eyes by mistake. Every time.

[@prokremelskidezolati1426]

@@FramesTM if you stop the lens down to F8, it is maybe OK :D