Cantonese or Mandarin? A debate in Hong Kong education since 2008

[@RayMak]

Do not let Cantonese fade away. Just teach and learn both. I speak 6 languages no issue. Why the headache? The more we learn, the more culture we can embrace.

[@ke._njil.o.h2458]

The problem is few people is capable of learning more than 2 languages. Take my country Singapore for example. LKY implemented the policy of bilingualism where we learn both English and our mother tongue language. Eventhough our English is doing well but most Singaporean especially the Chinese are struggling with their mother tongue language. Being only capable of very very basic conversation with them.

[@anyanyanyanyanyany3551]

@@ke._njil.o.h2458 haiya, ok Hokkien wa la.

[@songwaikit8718]

​@@ke._njil.o.h2458I disagree, singlish is still the most predominant spoken form and not proper English prior to which was chinese dialects and other forms of mother tongues. This exhibits fluidity in the spoken language and the impact of government policies in phasing out languages. Older populace are more likely to speak more than 1 language due to their upbringing and different linguistic exposure. there are other countries with multilingual policies eg Switzerland, belgium. It is dependent on the number of working languages permit to exist in the formal setting that seeps into the daily informal interactions

[@silveriver9]

Cantonese won't fade away. It is the anti-mainland faction and teachers with poor level Mandarin that's resisting the use of Mandarin by spreading fear that Cantonese will fade away. Narrow and zero-sum mentality while acting on personal interests.

[@JL_hahaha0303]

@@ke._njil.o.h2458 It's way easier for Canto speakers to pick up Mandarin than the other way around, SG case doesn't stand in HK

[@csong9940]

Mandarin was my first language. Let them continue to teach in Cantonese. It's their first language.

[@hanggaraaryagunarencagutuh7072]

So, is your first language currently Cantonese?

[@szesze-bw8fz]

You are so open-minded. Thank you so much!

[@andychiam2814]

Cantonese is not a language, it is a dialect, same status as other Chinese dialects, like Hakka, Fu Jian, etc.

[@csong9940]

@@andychiam2814 Yeah, I know. My mom speaks Hakka, my dad speaks Taiwanese, my sister-in-law speaks Cantonese, and we all speak Mandarin.

[@Ryakuuza]

​@@csong9940so u lived in Taiwan then

[@theevilhuman1]

I am a Malaysian who grew up speaking English, despite my parents and grandparents being native cantonese speakers. They percieved cantonese as being "useless", and they expected me to learn naturally once I grew older. However, what actually happened was that almost every Chinese person in my cohort was speaking either Mandarin or English as their mother tongue, despite their parents conversing in cantonese fluently. This has led to the loss of Cantonese usage amongst people in my generation. I remember growing up, everyone older than me was speaking cantonese, other than people who are similar aged with me. Right now, the cut off age of cantonese speakers is around 35 to 40 in Kuala Lumpur, and we naturally speak mandarin with people below this age, and cantonese with people above. I had some circumstance in which I was inspired to learn cantonese as it was my ancestral language. I went from only being able to listen to super basic cantonese, to being somewhat fluent, and now am married to a girl from Guangdong province in the mainland. Due to my passion to learn my own native language, I am extremely distraught when I see kids in Guangzhou all speaking Mandarin, and even in some third or fourth tier city in Guangdong, many kids are starting to speak mandarin instead of Cantonese. It truly pains me to see what happened in Malaysia is happening even in the place of origin of Cantonese. Malaysia's situation is beyond saving. I hope that at least in Hong Kong, Macau and perhaps Guangdong, cantonese can still be preserved, as it is a wonderful language which also unlocks within me a deep understanding of the culture of where my ancestors originated. Thank you for the short read!

[@dylan4142]

Yes!!! I'm singaporean and me, and all my cousins, who live in johor, just sit and stare at each other when our parents and grandparents start speaking teochew... sometimes i converse with my grandfather in BM instead bc i've already given up learning dialect. Our parents said they learnt naturally, and honestly i really don't know why it didn't happen for the next generation too even though it has always been spoken at home (albeit as more of a "secret language" when they didn't want us to hear)

[@dylan4142]

How did you go about learning cantonese? I tried years ago to talk to my great grandmother who was monolingual, but didn't get very far beyond the very basics and I don't know where to find resources online :')

[@lchristophor3107]

In HK, you can never find a local school student who does not speak perfect Cantonese.

[@theevilhuman1]

@@dylan4142 I used language learning apps that connect you to people who want to learn the language that you offer. In my case, i offered to "teach" English and wanted to learn Cantonese. I met many many friends from that app for the past 6 years, many of whom I am still in contact till now, which includes my wife!

[@theevilhuman1]

@@dylan4142 Thats so sad, most johoreans i know at my generation are almost exclusively speaking Mandarin, and at most can understand a bit of hokkien, but almost cant speak it. Its almost definitely heading fot extinction in Malaysia

[@JamesZ32100]

I mean Hong Kong has always been speaking Cantonese, it's natural for them to have it as their mother tongue. Instead if forcing Mandarin upon them, they should ease it and encourage them to learn it.

[@coolspot18]

It is being eased in - young people can learn and speak Cantonese at home or as extra curricular. Not learning Mandarin significantly limits their future opportunities.

[@aaliiissssaaaaaa_21]

@@coolspot18nah bro they dont even allow u to speak cantonese at school

[@tedlovejesus]

Its always since colonial government banned Mandarin and only allowed Cantonese, Its actually pretty diverse as Hong Kong Chinese came from different parts of China and spoke very diverse dialects

[@typicalKAMBlover21]

Shanghainese still speak shanghainese as their mother tongue, but they use standard mandarin to teach and communicate in official situations. If Hongkong could use English to teach as an occupied colony, why can’t it use mandarin to teach after reunification?

[@jezzikijackson1373]

​@@typicalKAMBlover21❤❤❤

[@TheLooking4sunset]

While each country should have a central language for obvious reasons, Cantonese represents the legacy and culture there, so it would be sad to see it go

[@Wann-zo7rn2qn4i]

Why should this a zero-sum game? There are many ways to preserve a language, culture and tradition than just national schools. The government does support such activities.

[@MsArmy00]

I am Malaysian, a malay guy. Since kids, I growing watching cantonese drama from Hong Kong. Most of popular chinese movie that time was cantonese because popular chinese actor were from Hong Kong like Jacky Chan and Steven Chow. During ealy 90's my whole family will watch cantonese drama in evening because Hong Kong drama was popular that time. I even can understand cantonese without really reading the subtitle, that how staple my life with cantonese. And I hope cantonese will never die. And I just quite surprise actually not so many Malaysian chinese know cantonese, because they are more to mandarin dialect.

[@fanta6285]

Sy x tahu kamu sebagai etnik melayu dulu zaman di 1990s pun ada tgk TVB dramas, mantap!

[@fhs7838]

It's pretty shocking to see how few people preferred to use Cantonese in Guangzhou now.

[@rainboworiental9521]

Because many Mandarin and other dialect speakers come to Guangzhou from the entire country, majorly use of Cantonese is impractical in daily life because a big part of the citizens isn't a native Cantonese speaker.

[@thecrab3128]

Guangzhou don't represent the entire Guangdong my guy.

[@habibcicero3833]

@@thecrab3128is horrifying though as it is basically the capital of the cantonese people and its becoming less and less cantonese by the day

[@thecrab3128]

@@habibcicero3833 The reason it's becoming less Cantonese is exactly because it's the provincial capital of GuangDong. The more developed a city is, the more likely it'll attract people form all around the country. This is true even for Beijing, the political and (one of the) cultural center of China. If you get to the more rural area you can see Cantonese well alive, same for many other regional languages in China.

[@habibcicero3833]

@@thecrab3128 no bejing is the one in power, it is their language and culture that is being enforced onto everyone else here in montreal, canada (canada’s french province capital city) all immigrants from other provinces SPEAK FRENCH and english! You could get by just knowing english (as most locals are fluent in english) and not learning french, but most immigrants and all of their children LEARN FRENCH because they are living in the FRENCH PROVINCE in guangzhou due to the ccp’s policies of banning and discouraging people from speaking cantonese, immigrants are not learning cantonese and even young cantonese natives are not speaking cantonese- this is not natural this is due to the ccp’s language policies!

[@louis18th]

Meanwhile we Malaysians find it not difficult to switch between Cantonese and Mandarin (both written and spoken). We didn’t receive the proper Cantonese curricular education. All Cantonese learnt are from TVB and 80/90s HK movies 😅

[@eugenec7130]

Please don't generalize. I am a Malaysian Chinese. My ancestry is Fujian / Hokkien. I speak Mandarin, Hokkien but not Cantonese. I am of the opinion that all Chinese should speak only Mandarin. Dialects break up the Chinese community. Learning and using only Mandarin will also remove some pressure away from Malaysian Chinese as we have to learn at least 3 languages - Malay, Chinese and English.

[@ianhomerpura8937]

@@eugenec7130 which I disagree. Also you are wrong - you're talking about LANGUAGES that are distinct from Mandarin. Especially the Yue, Wu, Min, and Hakka languages. They are NOT mere dialects.

[@hc8714]

@@eugenec7130 go ahead, no one cares.

[@penguinpingu3807]

@@eugenec7130 I have to disagree, our curriculum solely focuses on Mandarin for Chinese. Children do not need to learn the other dialects. Children that can speak the other dialects is either because it's their mother tongue or they are willing to learn the dialects.

[@oxvendivil442]

@@eugenec7130 As a Chinese Filipino I am of the opinion that the Chinese diaspora being already anglophone adopt English completely and set an example to the mainland, no matter how much we love our ancestral language, we should also consider it is not the best especially in our modern world, the tones are a pain, it is hard to learn, there are tonnes of characters to memorize and due to the use of characters which is self limiting, new words can't be easily created, foreign terms and words can't be easily adopted as they are phonetically, at least non tonal languages that use syllabary characters like Japanese and modern Korean can adopt foreign words or invent new ones even if imperfectly, Indo-European languages and Malay/Tagalog etc can readily adopt foreign words perfectly due to these languages using sound based letters and emphasis on sounds rather than Chinese that emphasizes "ideas".

[@jessssture]

WIth nearly 90% of Hong Kongers speaking Cantonese, Cantonese IS the dialect of Hong Kong. Let's keep Cantonese and canto culture alive.

[@kchan333]

It's not just Cantonese... I don't want to see any of the Chinese languages fade away. It's part of China's rich history and culture. Beijing doesn't make the best decisions. Look at China's one-child policy before it was lifted and the results of that...

[@TheIlustrado]

As a non-HKer who's interested in learning Cantonese, sometimes I want to give it a shot alongside my Mandarin studies. But I soon realized, as mentioned in this video that written and spoken Cantonese are vastly different. I mean there are people who say that it's comparatively similar to how English speakers in the West say "gonna" instead of "going to" but it's quite miniscule compared to the unwritten rules of spoken Cantonese that I find it difficult to wrap my head around. Most languages have an almost 1-to-1 similarity in their written and spoken language, with some minor differences between them but this was the first time that I encountered that this was not the case in Cantonese. Sometimes I feel like the 五四運動 didn't go far enough to promote 白話 and 我手寫我口 to other Chinese languages and instead focus too much on basing it to Mandarin, but just my two cents on the issue.

[@sonnymak6707]

There is a vibrant Cantonese literary vernacular with its own devised characters not used by Mandarin speakers. This version of Chinese is often unintelligible to Mandarin speakers to read. And most HKers learned it organically without formal education.

[@shuttlespace04]

teach in English

[@WingkKong]

@@sonnymak6707 Cantonese It's not a writing language ,

[@louis3904]

@@julm7744Cantonese does not make a proper written language. It is not classy nor poetic at all (none of the classical poems were written in Cantonese). Chinese language should have only one written form which anyone regardless of which spoken dialect they use and how far they are divided by distance and time can read and understand (just like we can all understand the poems/writings from thousand years ago). While spoken languages can change and evolve over time. Even the Cantonese in Canton, China (where it originates) is different from the Cantonese use Hong Kong and in overseas communities, if someone wants to create a Cantonese written language, would you agree it should be based on the Canton Cantonese?

[@sonnymak6707]

@@louis3904 我唔同意 你既諗法。 廣東話 呢五十年 嚟 已經 有自己嘅 風格文藝。後生人已經 日日用廣東文嚟 溝通。

[@andreastano7920]

As Indonesian, we study Bahasa Indonesia but we also study local language in each region. Besides, we study English and Mandarin too. No problemo. So we have subjects: Bahasa Indonesia, Local Language, English and Mandarin.

[@tiburcio729]

Interesting. Is Chinese taught in most schools or only some schools?

[@rioze5068]

@@tiburcio729 only some schools. The official curriculum only teach Bahasa Indonesia, English, and local language (until middle school).

[@feliciahuang1571]

LoL As an Indonesian I can say that most indonesians who claim they know Chinese have very bad comprehension and speaking capacity, they are barely able to pass hsk 3 and speak a decent Chinese basic convos beyond "whether you have eaten". As a result, people never trust an Indonesian who says they know Chinese. Therefore I have to tell people I am from Singapore or Malaysia so that they continue a Chinese conversation with me . I am talking about "most" here not "all". For e.g. I know someone from international school who claims her mother tongue is Chinese and she was required to learn Chinese at school yet doesn't know very basic words such as 听话

[@ping_square]

Will that affect u guys mandarin language ability? Also your sense of identity, whether you identity yourself more in terms of nationality or ethnicity?

[@feliciahuang1571]

@@ping_square it affects mandarin language capacity of course. In general, Indonesians, except those who go to China to study, have very bad Chinese comprehension and speaking abilities. It may change in the future given the quality of Chinese education in Indonesia that keeps improving. But interestingly, in terms of identity - it depends on how you define the Chinese identity. If you define it as a cultural relation to China, which is the correct definition - yes they realize they are less Chinese when they are outside among other Chinese people who can speak the language or know the culture better. If you are talking about Chinese identity as an exclusive identity different from the local Malay group, no it doesn't get affected. Most chinese Indonesians I know still have a very strong notion they are "Chinese" and they don't like it when outsiders see them as no different from Indonesian non-Chinese.

[@rioze5068]

Using mother tounge for learning is by far the most effective method. The ability in foreign languages is important too, but we should change the way teachers teach. My idea is instead of using textbooks to teach vocabulary, grammar, etc., it would be more interesting if the teacher and students actively do something together like reading stories, discussing, playing, or even learn other subjects BUT all activities are conducted in the language that's being taught. This way the language learning will be much more effective without disrupting other subjects and cultural preservation.

[@ianhomerpura8937]

@@hannesRSA congratulations for forgetting your culture in the long run

[@diegoantoniorosariopalomin9979]

I am far More confortable learning in english than in my mother tounge

[@ianhomerpura8937]

@@diegoantoniorosariopalomin9979 comfortability is one thing. Necessity and continuity is another.

[@Wann-zo7rn2qn4i]

Actually, not necessarily. Malaysia has been blowing hot and cold about its own national language, Malay. After 4 decades of primary and secondary education in the Malay language medium, it was already so obvious that the overall quality of the students were sliding backwards. The language itself does not lend itself to science and technology and higher level discussions, resulting in a huge proportion of loan words from English. The children who excelled are those whose parents are rich enough to send to private schools, international or Chinese schools. And yet, national pride prevents them from addressing the problem.

[@salj.5459]

@@Wann-zo7rn2qn4iThey should just add words to the language

[@liongkienfai104]

For added context, before the 1960s, most schools in Hong Kong were using Hakka as the medium of instruction. Hakka, along with Waitau, Hoklo, and Tanka were the dominant tongues in Hong Kong prior to mass migration of mainlanders from the mid 20th century onwards. Around the 50s-70s, the colonial govt forced Standard Cantonese from Guangzhou as the new language of education and overall society. 50 years later, the original languages of Hong Kong are very close to gone.

[@davidwong5197]

Actually, public high school education instruction is in English. No Chinese is allowed during class. I attended one of those school in the 60s.

[@Use8336]

I don’t think I knew as much history. I thank you for it.

[@Use8336]

@@davidwong5197 Didn’t know that either.

[@pikaa-si9ie]

@@davidwong5197 *some* public high school education, not all

[@kuilaychua6265]

Eventually,mandarin will be the dominant language 😂

[@Gryfder]

I woild greatly appreciate if SCMP would cover the other major Southern Chinese languages (/language groups) other than Yue (Cantonese), such as: Min, Ping, Xiang, Gan, Hakka, Hui, and Wu. As a fellow Southern Chinese who resides in Singapore, I support the dual lingual education pathway whereby both ethnic (Mandarin) and sub-ethnic (othe Chinese languages) languages are preserved/taught.

[@rvat2003]

Slight correction though. You shouldn't label Mandarin as "the" ethnic language. It is still one Chinese language out of many. Only ethnic Mandarin have Mandarin as their ethnic language. The other Chinese languages are spoken by their own ethnic groups. It's like saying Hindi is the ethnic Indian language while Gujarati and Marathi are sub-ethnics when they're not. They're all individual ethnicities.

[@Gryfder]

@@rvat2003 I believe us Hans classify ourselves as Hans, then the break down of Chinese languages are just sub-ethnicities? There are identities of Northern and Southern Han. May I ask if you're also a fellow Chinese as well?

[@张哲段]

india monkey

[@fd2361]

True. Standard Mandarin derives from Beijing Mandarin - the subdivided branch of Mandarin, different than Sichuan Mandarin and other Mandarin. Mandarin is one sub-ethnic division. Standard Mandarin or Putonghua was created based on Beijing but doesn't have -er and strong local Beijing intonation. All Chinese languages are separate and unique phonetically but sharing same writing system.

[@tanvt8924]

​@@Gryfder I agree with rvat you should not label Mandarin as "ethnic language" and the other Chinese languages as "sub-ethnic languages". If you said that, it feels you thought Mandarin is superior than the other Chinese languages such as Min, Wu, Gan, Xiang, Yue, or Hakka. Yeah maybe because you reside in Singapore where the government actively propogating the idea that Mandarin is superior than "dialects" (sinitic languages other than mandarin) as if Mandarin is the languages and the other just the sub languages or dialects. If you wanted to say what is the ethnic languages I suppose it better to say the Chinese languages are the ethnic languages and the branch from the Chinese languages is the sub-ethnic languages. As most han chinese speak chinese languages but not all han chinese speak mandarin.

[@hkraytai]

Hong Kong people are reluctant to learn another language. 99 years as a British colony you would think English would be widely spoken. I tried hiring a staff with some English proficiency and it was difficult. Don’t tell me because of Cantonese pride. People are politicizing the Mandarin issue but reality is the more skilled you are the more successful you will be and in HK’s position no one should need to tell you to learn English or Mandarin.

[@ngvkhtnw22]

In Vietnam before 1975, Vietnamese citizens of Chinese ancestry went to Chinese run schools taught in Mandarin (Mandarin was the medium of instruction in math, science, etc., using Taiwan's grade school curricula), but students interacted with one another outside class time, at home, and in the community, in Cantonese and Chiu Chew, and they of course also learned the country's official language which is Vietnamese, plus one foreign language subject in either English or French. Students and parents all took it as a matter of course and viewed it as something positive and nobody made a fuss about it. But the new Vietnamese government destroyed this efficient and effective practice after 1975 and most Vietnamese citizens of Chinese ancestry now learn only Vietnamese for the most part. Children can adapt to learning two or three languages, I don't understand why Cantonese became an issue in Hong Kong, I smell politics!

[@ianhomerpura8937]

iirc the authorities in Hanoi also banned the teaching of Cham and other indigenous languages, and forced everyone to speak Standard Vietnamese based on the Hanoi dialect. They learned quite well from the French.

[@Mal17281]

Agreed. I grew up in US, grandparents went from china to Vietnam and then to US. So I learned English in school and at home speak Cantonese, Hokkien and Vietnamese. No issues

[@harieeshrakhavandaran]

Yeah you won't have problem as long as your language is not disturbed

[@ngvkhtnw22]

@@harieeshrakhavandaran If language becomes a controversial issue, it's mostly caused by the underlying political struggle, not about the scientific merits of learning, HK is no difference. People use language as an excuse for a political fight that usually has very little to do with learning.

[@tweedy4sg]

@@ngvkhtnw22 Bingo. glad you saw thru this clearly. SCMP is actually pro-HK independence media. They purposely politcise the matter of PMI, seeking out like minded people that fit into the narrative of "fear of losing Cantonese language & culture" as if Cantonese is a unique separate language like French or English. They simply resist the teaching & learning of Mandarin in HK so integration with China will fail.. They will even start telling Hkers to disavow being Han Chinese like those pro-independence separatist in Taiwan, if it helps their agenda. It's sad, but that's what SCMP is doing.

[@awaiskhan9329]

If Hongkongers don't want to learn Mandarin, how they will communicate with people from the rest of China?

[@guroluke]

Cantonese is a very interesting language. I'm learning spoken and written.

[@gianna5834]

It has longer history than mandarin. Some cantonese words can't be expressed in mandarin language unfortunately

[@Shionshowa]

@@gianna5834example ?

[@adeptturtle2829]

I think they should keep some schools mandarin and some schools cantonese. This way, there is mandarin, and cantonese people can still send their kids to cantonese schools.

[@kimloonyong6599]

For non-Hker, usually we speak whatever comfortable to each other. During meeting we would use English mostly... sometimes mixed with Malay, Mandarin, Cantonese. Written email for government mostly Malay but private sector usually English. Among friends sometimes would use Hakka, or Hokkien (Cant understand) aside from stated above. On the side note, Mandarin, Cantonese, Hakka, Hokkien is a Language and not a dialect as branded by foreigner who does not understand the language and long history itself.

[@goldkwi]

China's government knows the long history, Singapore's government also knows our history. Yet both governments choose to call them all dialects as a purposeful brainwash.

[@leealex24]

In Malaysia, most if not all business communication in English but Cantonese, Malay and Mandarin are spoken too.

[@a787-t9i]

That's it, when i try to learn mandarin as hobby at one point i realize many word have to much meaning. After some time i have a hypothesis the reason is maybe because the so called "dialect". They dump the many "dialect" under the same banner language "mandarin". They should start calling it language instead of dialect like we did in Indonesia ethnic language in my opinion. Even within mainland itself i believe there many discrepancy between region.

[@Ioonorsodium]

The term dialect is a wrong translation from Chinese for 方言(regional languages),It should be rather be translated as topolects. Which suits the 方言 narrative better than the term "dialect" , Chinese a langauge of "languages" rather than just dialects.

[@jack19677]

@@Ioonorsodium 方言就地方语言对吧？

[@kelsmy]

Learning in native tongue is more effective. Mandarin is only useful as a communication tool with people in China. I overheard a man of Myanmar origin telling a customer to speak Canto or advising her to code switch whilst in KL. In India they have similar situation but the North and South communicate in English. Canto is not just a languange but it's a culture itself e.g. Cantonese food, Cantonese opera.

[@andia968]

mandarin is effective too in taiwan and malaysia and in china towns scattered throughout the world

[@sonnymak6707]

Burmese can pick up Cantonese quite fast. As an older canto speaker in KL. I am very frustrated when the younger Chinese sales person talks to me in Mandarin . I always reply in Cantonese.

[@kelsmy]

@@andia968 Mandarin is not a native tongue. Most people learned it at Chinese schools. It's not widely spoken in corporate environment.

[@rainboworiental9521]

​@@kelsmy But finally, when the Hongkong becomes more integral with the mainland (that's Beijing's visionary in Hong Kong), then Hongkongers will face the same situations that happen in Canton, many Mandarin or other dialect speakers will live in Hongkong, and Hongkongers also must attend more mainland matters and be forced to use bridge language Mandarin. All in all, Hong Kong is a SAR. Cantonese will not disappear, but Mandarin probably become a widely used language compared to today in daily life and work

[@malakatan3235]

There is mandarin speakers around the world than Cantonese, also Job market for Mandarin speakers, most China town also speak mandarin

[@Blaze6432]

Maybe its time to recognize Cantonese for what it is. A Language not a dialect.

[@rainboworiental9521]

You seem to think that Cantonese has a privileged position compared to other dialects such as Hakka, Hokkien, Teochew, and Shanghainese. They all have distinctive grammar and culture just like Cantonese, but they are part of the Chinese language instead of an independent language.

[@habibcicero3833]

@@rainboworiental9521no cantonese, hokkien, hakka, shanghainese are all languages that are completely separate calling them dialects of a single chinese language is as dumb as calling english, swedish, and german dialects of a single germanic language or french, spanish, romanian dialects of a single “romance” language THEY ARE LANGUAGES END OF QUESTION infact spanish and italian can understand eachother a little but can Cantonese and Hakka, No! or even Sichuanese mandarin and standard mandarin? NO

[@rainboworiental9521]

@@habibcicero3833 They are all Chinese and even Mandarin is a dialect of Chinese. Mandarin isn't equal Chinese.

[@rainboworiental9521]

@@habibcicero3833 European divided it and generated different nationalism. To comparing, throughout history, different dialect regions generally receive they are Han ethnic seperated from regional recognition. Even Mandarin is totally different in history. Ming dynasty pick up Nanjing dialect as Mandarin, Han dynasty choose shanxxi dialect, and Zhou dynasty pick up elegant accent.

[@patriciang4940]

In my era, my alma maters still used Cantonese Chinese to teach Chinese language & Chinese history classes. Although the 2 schools I had attended also offered mandatory Mandarin speaking classes, I learnt Mandarin speaking mainly from watching the Mandarin movies played on TV, i.e. TVB, RTV which later became ATV.

[@JL_hahaha0303]

Hong Kong is the only place on earth that still uses this beautiful language as a teaching medium despite having almost 1 hundred million speakers all over the world, and we're considering getting rid of it in the education system? This is ridiculous.

[@thecrab3128]

The ONLY place? You sure 'bout that?

[@JL_hahaha0303]

@@thecrab3128 name another city where they use Cantonese as the official medium of teaching

[@thecrab3128]

@@JL_hahaha0303 Uh, Canton? duh.

[@thecrab3128]

@@JL_hahaha0303 Canton is literally Guandong in cantonese, so you can say effectively all of Guangdong could be using Cantonese to teach in school.

[@JL_hahaha0303]

@@thecrab3128 You mean Guangdong province? Hong Kong is part of Guangdong province and Hong Kong is the only city using Cantonese as official spoken language as a medium of instruction, the rest of the province uses Mandarin, like the rest of China and in Taiwan as well. It seems like you are not familiar with the region. some of the teachers and students might be able to speak Canto but officially they should be speaking Mandarin, especially when teachers are conducting lessons, and this is the meaning of medium of instruction. Canto is not a city btw, it's the whole province or sometimes short form of Cantonese

[@user-ts8xr9fp6c]

The majority of HK Chinese are Cantonese, from Canton, China, having settled in HK from China over the last few generations. However, the real HK Chinese are the Hakka Chinese. The Hakka are the indigenous Chinese of HK ; when the Cantonese arrived, the Hakka were discrimated against and treated differently. Hakka, which was the main Chinese dialect taught in HK schools, was eventually replaced by the mainland settlers with their Cantonese tongue. My parents are Hakka Chinese and they remember being taught Hakka, and ONLY HAKKA, at their school, infact all HK schools taught and spoke Hakka only until the Cantonese settlers demanded that it be replaced with their Canton dialect. The Cantonese were the outsiders and the settlers, they still are, so it's kind of ironic the Cantonese saying they want their language back, when they took HK from the Hakka and replaced Hakka with Cantonese.

[@LeMon-wb1sl]

Sadly not enough people know about this part of the history.

[@edwardwong654]

if the Cantonese language is lost, so will we lose one of the great cultures. There is a subtle but distinctive difference between the Cantonese and the rest of the Han. The Cantonese are better at humour, double entendre, collaboration, hospitality and parallel parking. This would be a loss to the world if the culture is not retained, along with the language.

[@dwchen1]

There are 65 million Cantonese speaker across the border in Guangdong province. Hongkong once is just a tiny part of Guangdong province and will be a part again in 2049. So stop thinking that Cantonese is unique only to Hongkong. Shenzhen metropolis alone had twice the population of Hongkong who also speak predominantly Cantonese.

[@snowyy.5275]

Most Cantonese speakers are ethnically Han lol. There are also way more native Cantonese speakers on the Mainland

[@lowpost23]

lol parallel parking.

[@habibcicero3833]

@@snowyy.5275ethnically “han” makes no sense, china has billions of “han” people you really think that makes sense?? China is like europe in its ethnic diversity yet the ccp loves to say we are a single “han” people Us cantonese can trace our ancestry to the baiyue aborginals of guangdong for example, who are not han yet we are 100% “han chinese”?? we are more related to the viets over our northern chinese “kin”

[@aaronp2542]

@@habibcicero3833 I speak Cantonese myself and while what you say may be true, that is no way for a country to go forward. They must unite under a common banner, and the Japanese/Western coloanlists have made sure that any division can be used against you. It is completely understandable why they want a unified language. Ethnicity doesn't matter, only culture. That being said, I would like to have both be taught. I feel there should be some effort to preserve older dialects at the very least going forward. The ethnic minorities get a lot of perks that I wish there was even half the effort put into other dialects.

[@jik8191xyz]

Use the European model. Cantonese as the medium of instruction in Cantonia, with English introduced early as an auxiliary language, and Mandarin introduced as an optional third language in middle school.

[@nickiseb8910]

If you lose your language you lose your culture. It will never come back , it will be lost forever. Cantonese is not a dialect it's a language just like Spanish and Portuguese are different languages. Funny that this woman always says "dialect" instead of "Cantonese". It's a insult against Cantonese culture. I find it embarrassing and disrespectful.

[@luxeadawnlight]

It's the propaganda of the CCP that its a dialect and not its own language.

[@dragonfly02490]

3:38 You need to make a correction: people don't write in colloquial Cantonese in school in HK. Teachers will mark it wrong. They might use colloquial Cantonese for speaking and texting friends, but not in formal setting.

[@RaymondHng]

Historically, written Cantonese has been used in Hong Kong for legal proceedings in order to write down the exact spoken testimony of a witness, instead of paraphrasing spoken Cantonese into standard written Chinese. However, its popularity and usage has been rising in the last two decades, the late Wong Jim being one of the pioneers of its use as an effective written language. Written Cantonese has become quite popular in certain tabloids, online chat rooms, instant messaging, and even social networking websites; this would be even more evident since the rise of localism in Hong Kong from the 2010s, where the articles written by those localist media are written in Cantonese. Although most foreign movies and TV shows are subtitled in Standard Chinese, some, such as _The Simpsons_ , are subtitled using written Cantonese. Newspapers have the news section written in Standard Chinese, but they may have editorials or columns that contain Cantonese discourses, and Cantonese characters are increasing in popularity on advertisements and billboards.

[@dragonfly02490]

@@RaymondHng Do you speak Cantonese? Were you educated in a public school in Hong Kong? Cantonese, Fuzhounese, Shanghainese, Mandarin etc are all Chinese. Their written characters are the same, but the pronunciations are different. That's why they are called dialects. Among the dialects, there are sub dialects. Cantonese has at least nine sub dialects. Therefore, people standardize the language to make communication easier to understand. For example, in spoken Cantonese, lots of colloquial expressions start with 唔 are not used in standard writing. You can use it in text messages with friends etc, but we were taught not to use it in writing in school. Also, in comic books, to differentiate the educated and the less educated, the less educated characters use colloquial words. This was my experience when I was in Hong Kong. When Hong Kong was under British colonial rule, English was the language they used in court even though most of the plaintiffs and defendants speak only Cantonese.

[@qwertyboi32]

Teach and promote both, we can do more than just one thing at a time lol. Cantonese is an important language to a large population of people and has its cultural nuances worth persevering and passing down to future generations. While Mandarin as a national language is important for cohesion and unity. I've only heard this offhand so anyone in the know feel free to correct me, but supposedly India is a mess because huge swathes of the population cannot speak Hindi. Kind of hard to hold a country and people together when a shared language isn't one of the foundations of society. There is no need for a Mando vs Canto mentality, at the end of the day we're all family.

[@RaymondHng]

The PRC government can choose not to pay for public education conducted in Cantonese.

[@christopherchan5357]

I am glad that there is one HK media to talk about this topic.

[@yuliazni3389]

Language is an intangible cultural heritage. Keep it preserved, don't let it become extinct

[@thecrab3128]

While that's true, I believe Chinese are currently focusing more important cultural heritage to retrieve and preserve. Such as their historical antiques looted and scattered all across the globe.

[@jerryvang094]

Why not both languages? I heard my kind we have had to speak and talk in another way in Hmong to other races so I vote both to just keep and learn and let every races know there's some cultures who might and might not have the same languages but in another way to speak communication and talk to others right

[@TheStickCollector]

Like Cantonese for most subjects and Mandarin for politics and civics (since China rules now). Would make sense, no?

[@IcanseeeverythingwhatyouDohere]

@@TheStickCollectorthat actually makes sense in a bad and weird way honestly…

[@TheStickCollector]

@@IcanseeeverythingwhatyouDohere in inner Mongolia they tried replacing subjects with mandarin. Not surprising then

[@Blaze6432]

​@@TheStickCollectorAnd what about English? Hong Kong's official language?

[@TheStickCollector]

@@Blaze6432 I don't know, probably domestic law? I'm not the curriculum planner, just giving ideas

[@supertrouper]

Learning Mandarin in the schools is important for them to be able to interact with the Chinese speaking world in general, but Cantonese can co exist and be taught as well since it is the region's local language and it is part of the Cantonese culture.

[@adrianchin2970]

Hong Kong mother language of Cantonese should maintain in this country forever, don't ever neglect and abolished this dialect language, maintain this this dialect language to your future children and grand children.❤❤❤

[@eugenec7130]

Why are the Hong Kongers afraid that they will lose their roots if they learn and use Mandarin? People in the other areas of China speak their own dialects but at the same time use Mandarin when conversing with people from other provinces. Why are they not afraid of losing their roots? Why are Hong Kongers so different from people of other places in China?

[@bangballs]

Hongkies who don't understand the benefits of having a universal language to unify the country are just lapdogs to their colonial masters listening to their propoganda.

[@louis3904]

@@eugenec7130Cause those HKer think they are more superior since they have been colonized by the Brits 😂

[@ianhomerpura8937]

@@eugenec7130 because Cantonese is a separate language, not a mere dialect. I really don't get why people insist on such.

[@manishgrg639]

they still worship white skins and their culture just like endians do@@louis3904

[@typicalKAMBlover21]

If Hong Kong can start to promote English as the teaching language why can’t it promote mandarin now? Especially after all Hong Kong is a part of China now?

[@JL_hahaha0303]

Most schools still use Canto as a teaching medium despite the implementation of English as another teaching medium, and those kids who go to English schools speak perfect Canto. But if we implement Mandarin & English only in schools, in 2 generations no one will speak Cantonese properly anymore. Cantonese is also a Chinese spoken language, I don't see how that contracts being part of China. Also, kids have been learning Mandarin as additional language for decades

[@rvat2003]

Simple. Cantonese: THE mother tongue. Can be and SHOULD be used to simply teach anything. Mandarin & English: L i n g u a f r a n c a s aka not the language of HK. To be learned as second languages separately. Not a substitute for Cantonese as the MOI. Imagine if China is forced to use English as MOI and Chinese as a whole is restricted to the home. I'm sure the CCP would never allow that. That is what HK feels. It already teaches Mandarin and children speak fluent Mandarin so why should they switch to Mandarin MOI besides for the CCP to feel less insecure about Hong Kong by conditioning children as part of Beijing hegemony?

[@manishgrg639]

HK is part of China is the main thing here, are you from endia?@@rvat2003

[@typicalKAMBlover21]

@@rvat2003 Because the youths of Hong Kong think they are not Chinese? Because the xenophobic sentiment has taken root in Hong Kong’s next generation? Because Hong Kong forgets that there are 10x Cantonese speaking population in mainland China and they have no problems with using Mandarin as MOI and limit Cantonese to home? Just like the rest of China? In the end, it’s not Beijing’s hegemony, but how the 1.4 billion Chinese feel, that drives the MOI issues in Hong Kong. And what happened in 2019 gave plenty of reason to the mainland Chinese to believe that Hong Kong needs to stop behaving like a spoiled child, throwing a tantrum at every policy moves. It’s no longer a question of whether Cantonese can or should be used to teach. It’s a question of what nationality are Hongkongers? If they are Chinese, why are they treated differently from the Cantonese living in mainland China?

[@YorgosL1]

Cantonese is better and more important. Mandarin is not needed for any situation

[@busybeaver8674]

Cantonese is not a dialect, it's a separate language. Thank you.

[@scootergrant8683]

The term isn't wrong. Dialect is a complicated word to define because it originally referred to the language of a particular region. Not necessarily variation. Mandarin, Taishanese, Cantonese are all Chinese dialects by that definition .

[@thiya4627]

@@scootergrant8683 oh but i think it's still more of a 'language' since it also happens in my country. dialect is like a variation of the language spoken by the speakers. like two regions can talk in same 'language', but they have different 'dialect', even the words can be different

[@scootergrant8683]

@@thiya4627 Oh it's completely different. Not only from a completely different region but it has a much longer and distinct history to Mandarin by far. Not only that, it has spread throughout South East Asia and has had a far greater historical influence.

[@scootergrant8683]

@starhawkflyingbright6905 Cantonese ones.

[@KinLee919]

​@@thiya4627 if u watch old Hong Kong movies, you'll see the Cantonese subtitles are very different from the lines the actors acutely spoke, and the Cantonese subtitles are actually 90% the same with the mandarin, that's because written Cantonese and the spoken Cantonese are very different. （one is Literary and other is Colloquial). Using non-mandarin caricatures to write down colloquial spoken Cantonese is a relative new invention. So, literary written Cantonese is very similar to mandarin, only colloquial Cantonese is different from mandarin. Either Mandarin and Cantonese are all dialects of han Chinese. Or Mandarin and Cantonese are different languages, but they all belong to a language group called Chinese.

[@kennethwong5725]

I am Malaysian from Ipoh who speaks Cantonese as my mother tongue. I learned English and Malay in school day and I started to learn Mandarin when I came out to work and slowly pickup Mandarin. I would say English should be medium of instruction while Cantonese and Mandarin should be concurrently taught. So kids will eventually find it very useful where they could speak minimally three languages when they start to blend in into the working society.

[@anyanyanyanyanyany3551]

Please learn Hokkien😁

[@AgakAgakEngineer]

Why should English be the medium of instruction in China?

[@kennethwong5725]

@@AgakAgakEngineer English is international language. Furthermore, Hong Kong is one of the financial hub in Asia. Definitely, English can help to ease up the communication with foreign talent. On top of that, using English as medium instruction can build up the foundation of the language which can help to build up the basis understanding of math and science easily. Both Mandarin and Cantonese still can be taught as mother tongue subject.

[@Outcastsfromthe853]

We learned Cantonese all our lives with a Mandarin class once a week in school in Macau 2000-2017, noticed a lot of our classmates already know Mandarin, probably from family or pop culture (since often they like mandarin songs or shows), we as foreigners also learned to speak mandarin in a basic level from our Cantonese knowledge. If students were and still capable of knowing and learning both, why not? Best time to learn languages is during school ~

[@jwychau]

China needs to take a chill pill and stop pittiing one dialect against the other. It is ok to allow Cantonese to flourish in Hong Kong. In fact, it is anti-Chinese and an assault on our thousands year history to stifle it. As a Chinese person, we should not allow that to happen, it is a language that emperors and noblity spoke and getting rid of traditional writing along with it is an assault to Chinese culture, it is not a symbol of western oppression and Hong Kong defiance as the CCP will have you believe.

[@jonslct]

Too true. There are so many ancient Chinese words still used in Cantonese that makes it unique and expressive in the family of Chinese languages, and it also preserves the p t k consonant endings from Middle Chinese. If China is legit about preserving Chinese culture, it needs to start from preserving languages, while promoting Mandarin as the lingua franca. It makes no sense to erase languages for the sake of communication when this issue doesn't actually exist. If communication was such an issue the EU wouldn't have 24 official languages. But yet everyone communicates fine with English as the lingua franca, and many of them are better in English than even native English speakers.

[@etloo1971]

Even the non Han Chinese rulers like the Manchu and Yuan dynasty didn't make policy to suppress Chinese languages.

[@gideonlam1994]

As a Singaporean, the ability to speak Cantonese and other varieties of Chinese like Hokkien has declined badly among the younger generations. Even though I struggled with Mandarin at a young age; Mandarin was a mandatory 'mother tongue' taught in public school and then when I go home, all I hear is Cantonese or English. Nonetheless, I am still thankful that I was raised by my grandmother who used to be from Hong Kong and spoke to me in Cantonese. As of today, without the need for subtitles, I can still comprehend Hong Kong dramas and News. My only flaw is my confidence in speaking Cantonese. Hopefully, when I try to go to Hong Kong and attempt to converse in Cantonese, the people there can be more encouraging to patiently speak to us. I also hope that Cantonese can be promoted as a language overseas in the near future.

[@ngvkhtnw22]

People of Chinese background in Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Singapore, Myanmar, Cambodia, etc., They all learn Mandarin as the medium of instruction in Chinese schools there without making a fuss about it, even very few of them come from a Mandarin background. They speak Cantonese, Chiu Chew, Hakka, Hokkien at home and in the community. The Cantonese/Mandarin controversy in Hong Kong is more a matter of politics and not about education in my opinion. Language education is simply being used as a cover for a political struggle on both sides of the debate.

[@KinLee919]

Just like in Singapore, none of the Singapore Chinese had Mandarin background, but they still teach Mandarin as standard Chinese, why? Because from many many yrs ago they realize China will become a huge market, if they want to do business with China, they'll need to speak Mandarin. HK in the other hand, already in the Chinese market, but they think they are above the mainlanders, they think they are special. This mind set is why HK is losing to Singapore.

[@davidwong5197]

Actually. HKers prefere English as a teaching medium. The political debate is nonsense. Island International school taught only in English and yet all these kids all speak Cantonese. Yes little blond kid speaking Cantonese.

[@ngvkhtnw22]

@@davidwong5197 HKers prefer English because that's a class symbol. The average HKers can not afford sending their kids to international schools, have very little use of English in making a living. Blond kids' themselves are a class symbol by default. And their parents are happy to let their kids learn Cantonese as a symbol of progressive liberalism, the same way that senior executives fry burgers for their employees in company parties, but make no mistake who's up there & who's not. That's why "political economy" is much more realistic than "economics." All language debates are political debates, whether it's done consciously or subconsciously.

[@davidwong5197]

@@ngvkhtnw22 You missed the point. The point is Cantonese will not disappear if instruction is in Mandarin.

[@KentTheExplorer333]

Already happening in Guangzhou, Hong Kong to follow. In Shenzhen most people speak Mandarin and it's a part of Guangdong.@@davidwong5197

[@MrTerence1970]

My parents both are cantonese but dodnt instill in me and my sibblings to speak cantonese. Regretably I had to learn on my wayand I am glad I did cos I find better enjoyment in cantonese movies (especially Stephen Chow's comedy) than in mandarin. Its a beautiful dialect. Now I enjoys English, cantonese and mandarin movies.

[@JL_hahaha0303]

Most people in Hong Kong speak Mandarin already esp the younger generation, we don't need schooling to be conducted in Mandarin in order to learn Mandarin, is it really that difficult to understand? However, those who learn Mandarin as a native language are the ones who have trouble learning Canto!😂

[@SeelkadoomTHS]

It's like French and German use latin like English so the same argument can be used on Chinese

[@WChocoleta]

I grew up speaking Mandarin and also learned to speak Cantonese fluently thanks to my college years in Hong Kong. As a language lover, I do agree that every language and its heritage it represents deserve to be well preserved, and I would love to see Cantonese continue to be the primary language of Hong Kong. But at the same time, proficiency in Mandarin is absolutely necessary, as the economic lifeline of HK lies in the Mainland. Although they are very distinct forms of Chinese that are not even mutually intelligible, native Cantonese speakers can learn Mandarin as a second language relatively easily thanks to the common linguistic framework. It’s a lot easier than learning a European language to the same level. However, during my years in HK and from my Mainland Chinese friends who have either settled down in HK or traveled to HK in recent years, I have observed a worrying trend of detestation towards Mandarin (as you can see from the protestors holding banners), and in my opinion it is because many HKers have unnecessarily attached too much cultural and even political identity to the Cantonese language. I understand how many HKers do not identify with Mainland China and its political system, and this political detestation has spilled over to other cultural and economic domains as well, leading to their irrational resistance to anything associated with Mainland China. Not only do they not identify with the Chinese regime, but they do not identify with the notion of being ethnically and culturally Chinese either. And although we always say that languages build bridges of communication, many HKers use language as a friend-or-foe identifier, and anyone who speaks Mandarin, be them immigrants or tourists from Mainland, would be instantly labeled as an “alien”, if not an “enemy”. Waiters and flight attendants can sometimes get excessively arrogant to Mandarin-speaking customers, and look how local rioters in the 2019 riots punched and bullied random Mainland tourists just because they spoke Mandarin. This unnecessary and somewhat pathetic abomination towards Mandarin is fueling their fervent rejection of Mandarin education. They really failed to realize that Hong Kong’s most indispensable value is being a middleman between Mainland China and the Western world, being able to understand both languages, different legal systems, and commercial practices. It is exactly by playing such a role that HK has emerged into a global metropolis. Without the massive Chinese market behind it, HK would instantly lose its importance. I recently traveled to Macau and Singapore. In Macau, which is adjacent to HK and also a primarily Cantonese speaking city, people are much more willing to learn and speak Mandarin and are significantly more friendly to Mainland travelers. In Singapore, local cab drivers and food stall owners were very kind and generous to us once they heard us speak Mandarin, and start small talks with us, and Mandarin was not even their true “mother tongue”. The ancestors of Singapore Chinese people all spoke Cantonese, Hokkien, Teochow, or other forms of southern Chinese dialects. They only learned Mandarin because Singapore promulgated its “speak Mandarin” campaign back in the 1970s to adopt Mandarin, instead of any other dialect, as the standardized form of Chinese across its ethnic Chinese communities. Aggressive and controversial as it was, this policy helped Singapore position itself to align with the billion-people emerging market of China, and Singapore’s economy has definitely benefitted from it big time. To summarize, I do support HK to continue to use Cantonese as the predominant language of education and daily communication within the city in order to protect its unique heritage. BUT, meanwhile, it is time that HKers curb their uncredited hatred towards Mandarin, learn Mandarin well as a second language, and embrace the cultural and economic reality that HK will only continue to be Asia’s World City as it has been through collaboration and interaction with the Mandarin-speaking Mainland.

[@YoKamonINFJ-T9-2004]

Very holistic perspective

[@Shionshowa]

Cantonese use old ancient dynasty pronunciation so yeah I rather kept that language.

[@KC-io2rg]

Interestingly the Hong Kong version of Cantonese has changed quite a bit from before. There are copious amount of English replacing traditional cantonese like "Boss", "Party", etc. As a cantonese learner it is sometimes hard to follow what they are saying in HK movies and TV shows. Ironically no one seems to noticed or complain about these changes in the HK Cantonese language. In the states fewer and fewer people speak with the southern accent to the media portraying the language as being backward and associated with racial misdeeds in the past.

[@fd2361]

Local dialects have been downgraded as uneducated in many places in mainland for decades. There were penalties associated with speaking local dialects in China in the past. It's not surprising that the official Mandarin or standard Mandarin/Putonghua will replace all local languages and dialects in a few centuries if this exclusive education with only standard Mandarin is taught in school continues.

[@YorgosL1]

What changes are u refer ?

[@jack19677]

@@YorgosL1 同朕check一下

[@TheVboy1]

What keeps a language alive is not the language itself. But rather the culture that it is associated with. The question is, what kind of association people make when you think of interaction with Cantonese speaking people? Shy? Warmth? Welcoming? Abrupt? Rude?

[@unvaccinatedAndPureBlood]

Cantonese is what gives Hong Kong it's identity. Switching to Mandarin makes communication easier, but I would argue it is the little differences that makes people thrive by forcing everyone to be more understanding to each other. HK is already a concrete heckhole, do you really want it to become another soulless Mainland satellite city where everyone is group thinking?

[@icet6665]

SOULESS ? SOUNDS LIKE ANOTHER DAY OF HONGKONGERS DISSING THE MAINLANDERS JUST BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY ARE SUPERIOR BECAUSE THEY WERE UNDER THE BRITS. LOL SO MUCH WHITE WORSHIPPING. THE HONGKIES HAVE A REPUTATION OF BEING RUDE TOO

[@manishgrg639]

HK is part of China, end of discussion

[@snowyy.5275]

If Cantonese is what gives HK its identity then HK has no identity. There are way more Cantonese speakers in Mainland in, guess what, the Cantonese region of China

[@tonyatgoogle6076]

Teach in Cantonese and the kids will grow up isolated, you will disadvantage them for life.

[@opusbay9529]

In The Netherlands we learn Dutch, English, French and German at school. Don’t see the problem.

[@rvat2003]

The problem here is that they're trying to replace Cantonese in subjects that it doesn't have to. You should be able to learn in school using your mother tongue. Mandarin's purpose is to be learned as a lingua franca, aka a language subject to learn Mandarin itself, not a substitute for Cantonese. The issue here is that China is trying to implement the same policy in the mainland where non-Putonghua Chinese languages are not used in schools. Understandably, HK wants to reject this policy as it shouldn't be happening in the mainland either. It's much worse when you see it's also the case for many non-Han ethnic groups in China whose traditional lands are within the Han pool. They're not even ethnic Chinese but why do they have to learn everything IN Mandarin instead of learning in their own language and learning Mandarin as a language separately.

[@ThePaulz80]

I do understand most European speak various languages but in China strictly use Mandarin only.

[@ywee3980]

Spreek je alle talen op hetzelfde niveau? De meesten kunnen nauwelijks een broodje bestellen in het Frans na de middelbare school.... In Hong Kong willen ze kinderen leren schrijven en lezen op basis van het Mandarijn. Alsof je leert en lezen in groep 3 dmv Duits of Engels.

[@luxeadawnlight]

@@ThePaulz80 It's TRYING to. Historically, it didn't. Guess what happened to all the variety. :)

[@MagicGreenSquid]

Thanks for this summary of an important and difficult problem. (As an outsider, I won't offer any opinion.)

[@hyeung1]

Both. It's not an option.

[@Wongwanchungwongjumbo]

Singapore 🇸🇬 English is the Main spoken language, Followed by Mandarin likewise to Malaysia 🇲🇾, Behasa Malay language is the Main spoken language following by English etc

[@dwchen1]

A lot of non-Chinese thought Cantonese is unique only to Hongkong and if Cantonese is lost in Hongkong that means Cantonese is extinct. What they don't know is there are 82.4 million Cantonese speaker across the border in Guangdong province, and Hongkong is once a tiny part of Guangdong province and will be a part again in 2047. Shenzhen metropolis alone had a population twice that of Hongkong and also predominantly speaking Cantonese, except for large community of migrants who came, work, and lived in the city's huge opportunity as a technology hub and manufacturing base.

[@shenghaodai8548]

Sorry but Shenzhen is majority Mandarin speaking, not Cantonese speaking. This was already the case at least 15 years ago

[@s._3560]

They are trying to create a narrative that ties Cantonese as a ''unique HK language and identity''.

[@habibcicero3833]

@@s._3560THEY ARENT WRONG, in guangzhou cantonese is being wiped out here by the ccp, and even abroad we wont last long in the west as more and more northerner immigrants arrive, hong kong is sadly the last bastion of cantonese culture

[@luxeadawnlight]

It used to be pretty much the whole southern China area. historical range. Guangzhou spoke it. but decades after the CCP got power, only HK speak it. It IS extinct in much of its range. HK could be said to be the last stronghold.

[@dwchen1]

@@luxeadawnlight it seems you never go to Guangzhou. Cantonese still spoken everywhere over there through out the entire province. Is Cantonese special...? Nope. Because there are about 10 Han Chinese dialects spoken through out China. Cantonese is just 1 out of 10 with around 82.4 million native speakers, while others like Hakka(40 million native speakers), Teochiu(10 million native speakers), Hokkian(23 million native speakers) spoken in surrounding Guangdong, Fujian, Jiangxi, Guangxi, Hunan, Sichuan. So if you said Cantonese is extinct in Guangzhou is a blatant lie. About Mandarin...? It's just a lingua franca spoken by 70% out of 1.4 billion people.

[@wynetsang]

Home = mother tongue. School = Manderin. Society = provencial dialect.

[@klubcj]

Keep Cantonese strong 💪🏽

[@Dave_from_Aust]

You just can’t swear and insult as precisely in mandarin.

[@Jason88215]

Both? What’s wrong with that?

[@Cantocourse]

Long live Cantonese! Stop the mandarin imperialism. By the way, Cantonese is not a dialect, but a language.

[@amiigose]

😂😂 lol, cabtonese is still china

[@peterretep1010]

Why not both? I would love to learn mandarin as well. We are all chinese.

[@user-oh6wb5rj2q]

So you want the teacher to speak in two languages for each sentences she made? It will be so tiring for her 😂

[@ImGonnaOilYouUp]

impractical, use your head a little

[@Revliss]

How is that impractical we do that in 3 languages in a sentence all the time, and all 3 are from deference language system

[@ImGonnaOilYouUp]

@@Revliss On account of what, cognitive psychology or your own anecdotal experience? Mandarin, Cantonese are very complex relative to most languages and adding an additional language on top of their pre-existing curriculum would definitely place undue cognitive load on students, hinder their language acquisition, and may not yield the desired outcomes in terms of language proficiency and retention.

[@Revliss]

@@ImGonnaOilYouUp it's common for people to know both mandarin and Cantonese, English and Malay here we learn that by just speaking to our friends and even just from watching drama from hong kong. And we are not genius. It's just that common that went you say it's impractical we feel pitty that you don't have any confidence in your self, at worse you looking down on other people

[@terrima4064]

I am a Chinese American who speaks fluent Cantonese. I grew up obviously speaking hearing english in school, but once i get home, its all Cantonese. Im 50 years old now and still speak fluent Cantonese even though i speak mostly English.

[@RaymondHng]

I'm older than you, but I can only speak Cantonese of a four year old. I can read Spanish better than I can read Chinese.

[@siusi]

Make MAINLANDERS write in TRADITIONAL CHINESE!

[@EpicThe112]

What's the point of that you already have the Taiwanese already writing in traditional Chinese note that the Cathay Pacific website has Zh Tw option which Hong Kongers can read easily. Aviation forums in Traditional Chinese Zh Tw seems to be the prevalent one despite the user from Hong Kong

[@adamang3655]

Old generation got no problem with that but young generation might understand because it is just the word they learn is simplified but the meaning is still the same

[@lilyho9808]

I think schools in mainland China should also be teaching students Cantonese as well. More often than not, Mandarin speakers cannot speak Cantonese.

[@latiendaca1773]

I am not white American, but benefited from been taught English since young. So I experienced the importance and necessity of having just one national language. Even though Spanish is still prevalent in the USA, but we should all learn one and just one national language. When I was in school, I saw Dr Sun Yatsen, in a film, talking about congressional voting and passed, mandarin as the one Chinese national language, 700 years in the making. So I agree for public schools to teach mandarin as the only instruction language, definitely not Cantonese. Just like here, in USA, English first and foremost in public, Spanish at home.

[@cashmerecat9269]

In Indonesia, the national language is taught across the country to enable each and every of them to communicate. The mother tongue is taught separately and learn from home and society.

[@yehuo2825]

why not just do like what other provinces are doing - as in hong kong educate in mandarin and cantonese?! mandarin is the official langauge of china, so there needs to be a standard language, but the locals cannot give up and forget their local language too. like in xinjiang, in the uyghur populated places, they are educated in mandarin and uyghur, while in places that are mainly tajik, they are educated in mandarin and tajik, the russian populated areas are educated in mandarin and russian, and so on... even in the usa, there is at least 1 school i know got approval to teach in english, mandarin, and cantonese. i dont know how they do it, but this school has been around and many parents love this school. some schools educate in english and cantonese and some schools educate in english and mandarin. these are categorized as alternative schools. xi also said in many provinces that even they learn the official language mandarin, but the locals cannot forget their own language, culture, and tradition, etc. too... so what is the issue?! did the hk local officials brought this up during the 2 sessions? this is where it needs to start! this is the purpose of the 2 sessions, where each place have their representatives to report whatever is necessary for their own place. i may have live in the usa my entire life, but i do know how the chinese system works too. in fact, from what i have witness all over china, china provides alot of freedom, right, and democracy to the people too. there is not only 1 form of democracy. usa and western countries is liberal capitalism democracy, while china is socialism democracy. liberal democracy is not the best form of democracy, since you can see what is happening in the usa and other western countries... the best system is being able to provide what is necessary for the common people... which country was able to lift 800m+ people of absolute poverty? so far i only know china was able to accomplish such a goal, while in the usa homeless is everywhere.

[@goldkwi]

maybe China can set an example by permitting the various regional languages (Be it Cantonese, Hokkien, Hainanese) to be taught in schools first together with Mandarin, instead of banning it completely in the classroom setting...

[@yehuo2825]

@@goldkwi like i said in my comments... did the hong kong officials brought this up during the 2 sessions?

[@truthboom]

"china provides alot of freedom, right, and democracy to the people too." if internet censorship and the right to vote insignificant county representative that can't change the country counts then yeah LOL. Especially county representative vote for the national representative all for it to get fired by the chairman for defying his will.

[@ianhomerpura8937]

@@yehuo2825 will the Politburo listen? Remember that they have been pushing for "linguistic unity" since 2013.

[@rvat2003]

The thing is, it should be like in Hong Kong. Cantonese is the language of instruction and Putonghua is taught as a lingua franca aka a second language to be learned separately like English. China is supposed to be a multiethnic country. But the Putonghua-only policy in the mainland just shows that they want only one kind of being Chinese, a homogenous China. So in this context, China isn't really the best democracy. Taiwan is way ahead of the CCP when it comes to language policy in education. They already use other Chinese languages like Hokkien and Hakka fully. And most importantly, they recognize, use, protect, and commit to the continued proliferation of the various indigenous Formosan languages in Taiwan for future generations.

[@araara4746]

In Indonesia we have many regional languages, but in general in formal matters we will use the national language, namely Indonesian. Everywhere you will hear people speaking their local language, but for formal matters such as school, office, government, we will use Indonesian. I myself use Minnan (Fujian) at home with my family, use Javanese with my surroundings, and use Indonesian in formal matters (or communicating with Indonesian people from other regions).

[@lordkent8143]

One of the fondest memories of a Canto Speaker like me from overseas (like me from America) is remembering all those Canto movies and dramas I grew up watching. And how it resonated with your daily life. It's your mother tongue (despite those who think Cantonese is just a dialect and the only true Chinese language is Mandarin -__-) and it sticks with you even if you assimilate to the dominate language in your area. Canto speakers are quite lucky that Hong Kong was able to make some great media in the past. When the education is affected, so will the media be affected.

[@icet6665]

WHY CAN'T THEY HAVE TWO DIALECTS? THE HONGKONGERS HAVE THIS SUPERIOR ATTITUDE TO OTHER CHINESE THAT IT IS RIDICULOUS.

[@louis3904]

Do your children or grandchildren speak Cantonese fluently or they speak only English in America?

[@rcharlesish]

Totally agree. So much great Hong Kong cinema once upon a time.

[@zuriyel5368]

There's also great Canto-pop!

[@DZ-bz1ww]

With 82 million native Cantonese speakers I don't think its dying. However, It would be beneficial to learn both and not prioritized any one. I would let English be an optional since HK should move pass its' colonial history.

[@JhaeJ]

Cantonese more popular.

[@edward7600]

The culture will not disperse like there's no ban of spoken Cantonese like Indonesia which ban Chinese culture and forbid it , there's is many languages spoken in China. Cantonese is spoken in many parts of foreign Chinese around the world they were brought from canton and Guangzhou.

[@williamlai29]

SCMP: Cantonese or Mandarin? Me: Why not both? Why must we choose only one? *It is a pride and joy to be able to speak and read Mandarin,* and on a cultural perspective speaking Cantonese just represent which group of races you belong to. China is a big place, I can speak Cantonese and Mandarin AND understand Hokkien and Hakka. *China is a multicultural super big family, I do not understand why SCMP had to make such a fuss about it!*

[@Blaze6432]

Why not let parents decide? Oh wait because controlling communists like to force language....

[@HihiC-k1y]

Mandarin is not a real Chinese Language!

[@randomtraveller8116]

Why would it be a debate? Cantonese is the mother tongue. There shouldn't be a debate at all.

[@chrisbach1533]

As a non-chinese (i am german) i like traditions, and i hope so much cantonese dialect will survive, i like it just listen to it :). Only one little thing i dont like so much, its the spelling of names. Cantonese people in Hong Kong have the habbit to seperate their given name in two parts, without hyphen etc., and this looks very confusing. If a western guy like me reads for example "CHOW Yun Fat", it looks like Yun and Fat are two seperate names (like Yun is a middle name, and only Fat his given name), but its his given name. And so it should be romanized either as Yun-fat, Yunfat or maybe YunFat, so its visible this is one name and not two names. So a suggestion for Hong Konger s or cantonese people: If you communiacte with western people, i recommend you to spell your given name togehter as one name, not seperate it in two, that looks for western ppl like two seperat names, since we in the west do have middle names, like John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

[@anglo-saxonconnor817]

The language you speak affects and shapes the way you think and form your thought process which give rise and shape to your own culture and identity over time. Throughout history thefirst thing all invaders and overlords will do when taking over a place is to gain control over religion,media and language so that successful social conditioning can happen.

[@ac-stingz]

Cantonese is the native language of HK and part of HK people's identity and culture. Under basic law, HK people are entitled to preserving the way of life and language is a big part of it, not to mention that mainlandize HK will not be the HK that's known to the world anymore. Don't change anything for the sake of changing.

[@Kitxne]

I speak tagalog and 2 more local languages in my country that aren't part of the educating system. People needs to grow up

[@andreastano7920]

Same as Indonesian, we study Bahasa Indonesia but we also study local language in each region. Besides, we study English and Mandarin too. No problemo. So we have subjects: Bahasa Indonesia, Local Language, English and Mandarin.

[@rvat2003]

And? I'm also Filipino and speak "Filipino" and 2 other PH languages. But the reality is, and I know since I'm literally a linguistics student in the PH, that the other languages are dying. Especially because they are gatekept from the education system, as you can see with the current developments of DepEd removing the MT subject. Children are starting to stop acquiring their own languages and either become L1 speakers of English, Tagalog, Bisaya/Cebuano, or any of the big languages. Filipinos in general are not really the best in being proud of their own languages. Even elders are obsessed with making their children English-speaking, aka conyo because they think it'll make their children smart when that's just another language but definitely not their own. If you can't relate to HK's dedication to ensuring that their language stays flourishing, then don't talk like you're the grown-up here. The PH is not really the example to follow because none of the PH languages (even Filipino/Tagalog) are currently available as the primary MOI up to college. Cantonese enjoys PhDs but Cebuano doesn't. If they want to protect that, support them. If not, shut the f*** up.

[@jack19677]

Ironic that all the Cantonese advocate are writing in English instead of Cantonese

[@cuteandfunnyearthlings2863]

If you want to setup business in china then you must learn and speak mandarin as it will make connections and relations easier when you are in china. Even countries around the world minus the western countries are making learning mandarin language mandatory, any future astronauts want to go to the chinese space station in the future must speak mandrain.

[@rvat2003]

They already speak impeccable Mandarin. But unlike other Chinese areas, they actually care about their own Chinese language's continued existence and flourishment.

[@luxeadawnlight]

Don't lie lol. Most of the world just mandate English.

[@rodneyinefuku3810]

Besides English, my wife and her sisters can speak Mandarin, Cantonese, and Taiwanese fluently. They learned Mandarin in school, Cantonese at home, and Taiwanese on the streets of Taipei. Whenever we go to a restaurant in any city in the US, my wife speaks either Mandarin or Cantonese depending if the waitress is from Hong Kong or mainland China. Always immediate kinship between my wife and the waitresses. My wife also found out that she could speak Chinese to our friend from Singapore... Our friend speaks Fukien... and Taiwanese is essentially the Fukien dialect. Why?... Check the history of the Chinese people in Singapore. The one time my wife couldn't understand the Chinese being spoken was when 2 of my aunties spoke to each other... they spoke in Haka. I was surprised because all my life, my 2 aunties always spoke English. I think if Hong Kong people spoke both Mandarin and Cantonese, it would be to their benefit. Then they can go anywhere in China. If my wife and her sisters can speak multiple languages, so can can everyone else.

[@RaymondHng]

Education costs money. The issue is that the PRC government will not pay for instruction conducted in Cantonese.

[@vishmanify]

I dont understand why they say HK's local dialect. If you travel to Guangdong province, cantonese is spoken mostly everywhere, even in bordering province at guangxi. In Foshan, Guangzhou, Zhongshan, Zhaoqing, Zhuhai, Shunde, Parts of Shenzhen (where the locals are) I get around with cantonese. For Example, cantonese is a local dialect in Foshan as well. I have met people in Guangdong just like in Hong Kong who dont speak any mandarin at all. So why does the news always portray cantonese as a HK dialect?

[@pjacobsen1000]

When they say Cantonese is HK's local dialect, it means that Cantonese is the dialect spoken in HK. It does NOT mean "Cantonese belongs to HK".

[@tedlovejesus]

The colonial government intentionally banned Mandarin and only made Cantonese allowed, in an effort to alienate Hong Kong from Mainland China (what an evil plan) Because the west feared China tremendously

[@goldkwi]

and it's not even dialect, Cantonese differs so much from Mandarin to the point it is technically and linguistically a regional language

[@wsant2872]

Exactly as you said, it's a dialect because it is "spoken". It is not a formal language that can be written. That's why it's just a dialect

[@pjacobsen1000]

@@wsant2872 " It is not a formal language that can be written". What an ignorant comment. Every language and/or dialect can be written, and indeed can be written using a number of different scripts. Just look at Mandarin Chinese which can be written with Chinese characters (complex and simplified both work), and can also be written with PinYin, a written language all Chinese children must learn in school. You could easily write Mandarin in Japanese Kana, as well.

[@andrewjohnkeogh4933]

Leave Hong Kong's culture, language and way of life alone. If mainland Chinese parents choose to put their children in Hong Kong schools, they should adapt to Cantonese, not the other way around.

[@JC-hl9nu]

Cantonese actually is a dialect of southern part China. Its not a language. While Mandarin the National language. Future global competitiveness Mandarin is a must.

[@mhkee7909]

Mandarin is a Beijing Dialect

[@dutmansan5487]

In history Cantonese precedes mandarin first used it was only when the north invaded and brang mandarin ruling as china mother tongue. I find the mandarin phonetic makes no sense where as Cantonese is clearer. Long live Cantonese.🎉

[@danleonhart1]

I'm born British HK and I too fiercely defend the native Cantonese language of my homeland 🇭🇰

[@icet6665]

GO TO BRITAIN AND WORSHIP THE ENGLISH. TOW THE HONGKONG ISLAND AS WELL.

[@manishgrg639]

you are whitetrash?

[@evangelion045]

Cantonese first!!! Don't let the language die. It is the seventh language I am learning and is such a complex and beautiful language.

[@prime3333]

Keep it to Cantonese please, it's so iconic too hong kong

[@misterbig9025]

How about English?

[@KentTheExplorer333]

English is already spoken everywhere in the world including in Hong Kong, no need to save English from extinction by CCP.@@misterbig9025

[@averykleon]

If HK people want to stay relavant, it has to be Mandarin.

[@danielvichetsok1084]

One city one language 50 city then 50 languages. So how do they speak to each other?

[@ianhomerpura8937]

Learn at least three languages. it's normal in the rest of the world.

[@rvat2003]

Simple. Learn a lingua franca as ANOTHER language. The issue here is that the SECOND language is being forced upon the city, replacing the FIRST language. They already speak high-level Mandarin so the proposal to replace Cantonese as the medium of instruction is purely a political move and an attempt to swallow HK in the Putonghua-only policy which is actively killing the local languages in the mainland for the future generations.

[@Krishna789.]

I love mandrain chinese language i like it i know chinese language 1)ni hao 2)ni hao ma 3) wo ai ni Last one : wo xi indu ren (kerala) i love china Malayali♥️chineses

[@adolphsow607]

wo ye xi huan yin du ren..wo ri ai zhu qiu..kerala blaster..😆

[@yeekicarinang1653]

Cantonese is our OFFICIAL LANGUAGE. The only reason there is a rise in mandarin speakers in Hong Kong, is due to mass immigration and invasion from Chinese citizens. Do not assume, we are the same. Our language is different, our culture is Different, and our community is different. There is NO DEBATE.

[@manishgrg639]

lol

[@manishgrg639]

effect of white colonialism

[@rainboworiental9521]

The vast majority of Guangdong's inhabitants considered themselves Han during the 600 years of the Ming Dynasty. Even when China was still dynastic, Mandarin was the language that all educated people had to learn in addition to their dialect (due to the imperial examinations and bridge language throughout different dialect regions). Preserving Cantonese does not conflict with promoting Mandarin.

[@ensiyeitu1012]

​@@rainboworiental9521Well said. It's not hard to understand.

[@etloo1971]

​@@rainboworiental9521Cantonese were one the Bai Yue tribe related to Vietnamese.

[@RustyRobot101]

Thanks for covering this interesting topic. I was educated in an English medium school in Hong Kong in the 80s. I was never taught mandarin at school. I have children in the UK and they learned English very differently from how I learned. They did phonics with the assumption that they are already fluent. I find the idea that we could learn Chinese easier using mandarin ludicrous. It will be like trying to teach Hong Kongers English using phonics and Biff Chip and Kipper.

[@samtoo8685]

Cantonese for life

[@MICN99]

I have no problem with Cantonese. However, every school in China (not just mainland) should use Mandarin as their teaching language. Language and text are really important in terms of national recognition, integration, and cohesiveness. 对粤语没意见，但中国包括港澳台在内的每一个学校都应该以普通话教学。语言和文字是国家整合、认同、增强凝聚力的重要环节，秦始皇两千年前就示范过了。

[@Wann-zo7rn2qn4i]

I absolutely agree. But I also have no issues to preserving any language. There can be specific language classes and activities after standard school hours for children to attend - Cantonese, Hokkein, Foochow, Shanghainese, German, Spanish , etc, etc. As a taxpayer, I would not mind my money to be spent for this at all. I have seen this done in many schools.

[@jonslct]

I have heard the example of Qin Shi Huang a few times. He has contributed massively to the unity of China, bu then he is also acknowledged as a tyrant. The extinction of a language (or dialect if you like) with as much clout as Cantonese can only occur under tyranny. There is at present, no issue with communication at all. Youngsters in HK all speak Mandarin, and this will only improve even without Mandarin-only education. Part of the reluctance to speak Mandarin to tourists is not for lack of understanding, it is the tacit recognition that HK is shaping up as the last stand for the preservation of Cantonese. If the Government enacts policies to promote Cantonese and secure its long term viability, I believe it would help to put people's minds at ease.

[@fd2361]

I agree that one mandatory official language like standard Mandarin is taught while having a local language education for locals. Currently, Foochow is mostly extinct in young generation as rarely spoken words are nonexistent in youth vocabulary. In next few decades, there would mostly be heard in museums. I strongly support Taiwanese and Cantonese education as they are now while Putonghua is also taught.

[@habibcicero3833]

yea china’s been doing that in the mainland and as a result languages are being wiped out, its so common for southerners to be unable to speak their mother tounges fluently nowadays like in guangzhou or shanghai (shanghainese especially is on the road to extinction) The promotion of standard mandarin is wiping out cultures! the ccp does not seem to care as it is their bejinger language thats being promoted after all

[@benjamin.0623]

From the traditional perspective, Qin has been called 暴秦.

[@betojye]

...Hong Kong should continue to teach classes in Cantonese....

[@worldlife9834]

Hong Kong isn't an international city. Bangkok is an international city with better English than Hong Kong.

[@JL_hahaha0303]

hm ... are you sure

[@lamsimon8458]

In Ipoh also use Cantonese to teach many subjects