Denna's Patron | Kingkiller Chronicle Theory

[@coleton7048]

Imagine how popular your videos will be when Kingkiller hits the "mainstream" because of the movie and tv adaptions. If you continue with this kind of quality your channel will be one of those huge places known throughout the Kingkiller fandom.

[@CapturedInWords]

Haha it would definitely be awesome if that happened! Not gonna lie, that thought did occur to me. Only thing is once it hits mainstream with the adaptations, it will probably turn out that I've pronounced 90% of things wrong and will get a bunch of hate XD

[@coleton7048]

Captured in Words Rothfuss made a video where he pronounced all the names and I'm pretty sure you got them all right.

[@CapturedInWords]

Glad to hear that! I've watched that pronunciation video a ton of times and I still get people commenting that I pronounce Kvothe and other names wrong. I can't really hear the difference, idk I'm probably slightly off on a few but hey at least I'm trying :P

[@rds4629]

Well, if there's not a 3rd book, then to hell w/ this series... been waiting a while, and I'm doubting now. Look at GRRM's series and there's been a notable decline since they went past his books, and no word from him either...

[@gustanoid]

having tv adaptation is intriguing indeed but I really dont want this universe to become mainstream bullshit like Game of Thrones or something like that

[@GregoryHathornMusic]

"Sometimes a person is actually more than one person, technically speaking." - Bredon to Kvothe TWMF page 419 (second page of chapter 62) hmmmm...

[@jamesschroer5315]

What if he is all three?

[@wfvart]

This was said more in regards to certain nobility holding more than one political position and/or title. But perhaps hidden meaning and such haha. Who knows :)

[@Tony-jw8vj]

"He beats her, not all the time but often." "Its a game to him.". "He used his walking stick thats new.". Its tak. He moved a piece with his stick.

[@CapturedInWords]

I think so too!

[@Djcm00137]

The thought of Dennas patron absolutely obliterating her in tak, just destroying her so bad it makes her cry is kinda funny to me

[@pantalaimon1982]

I'm with you. Braedon is her patron who is also an Amyr

[@odahimaable]

I knew it ever since she got beaten by a stick and he holds a stick and always away when she is away.

[@kutaykuzucu712]

I believe Braedon is her patron but I dont think he is an amyr I believe he has some kind of connection to chandirans

[@kutaykuzucu712]

btw denna tels kvothe that he is a good dancer and braedon says kvothe that he is interested in dancing

[@therezafaria8514]

Another clue is that when introducing Braedon, Kvothe says he kinda regrets trusting him

[@michaelxz1305]

well hopefully we'll find out soon... soonish... sometime...

[@CapturedInWords]

I meant to get this up way earlier but life got in the way. Stayed up till 4 am last night to edit and get this uploaded for you guys though! Heads up I might pronounce some things wrong but it's how I read them in my head while reading the books. So who do you think is Denna's patron? Feel free to comment any clues that I left out or didn't mention! (I had to cut a few small ones) And let me know which theory/lore I should talk about next!

[@dougnavarrone123]

Captured in Words Cinder is a skin dancer. That's why his sign is cold. Cinder can look like anyone, ever think its weird that Kvothe recognizes the mannerism of the bandit leader and not the face? Edit: What if the reason Kvothe kills the King is because the King WAS Cinder at the time?

[@CapturedInWords]

Ahh this is really interesting! I never thought of Cinder being a skin dancer, but that could definitely be the case, which would make sense with Kvothe recognising the mannerisms. Makes you wonder who else Cinder could have been "wearing/possessing". That's a great theory!

[@bibianamorenovalle5325]

I think that the ones that killed Denna's family or separated her from her family (I think they are dead, or that she could be a Lackless (her similarities to meluan, and she has a ring with yllish knots as the lackless box with Yllish knots) were the Amyr, and she is looking for them to kill them, or something like that. That's why for her Lanre is the hero and the Amyr are therefore the bad guys (Maybe they did it for the greater good). It is very odd that she is performing in that wedding where the chandrian kill everybody, and that she's trying to learn secret things like Kvothe... She knows another kind of magic that her patron teaches her, she says that she knows secret things that kvothe doesn't know and only her Patron could teach her....Also, she asks Kvothe and his friends if they know a kind of magic that is like writing things to make them real (Yllish knots I think). And I think that her ring is very important to the story but I don't know why.... I'm sorry for my bad English.

[@bibianamorenovalle5325]

So if her Patron is Cinder, It all makes sense, and if Bredon is Cinder it also makes sense for me

[@jt364]

Captured in Words He's definitely Cinder. During the farm scene it was quite blatant when PR mentions "Ash and Cinder". Think it was said multiple times across 2 pages.

[@gkakak]

It would be really interesting to have some parts of the story from Denna's perspective

[@FCPaufUror]

"Beating her with his walking stick" could mean that he's beating her in Tak, using his walking stick for maneuvering his tiles. Rothfuss is very precise.

[@CapturedInWords]

Yes! It could definitely be hinting at this!

[@ms.laurenv8738]

Well, except that it also tells him about the welts on her skin.

[@jordanprado5806]

OR, and stay with me, he giving throwin' down some funky beats!

[@abigailslade3824]

Karl Money or that he is training her to fight.

[@amjadnawaz5122]

but how would the "welts" tie in to that theory?

[@juanventas]

So in english he is called Master Ash, well, Ash is translated as Ceniza in Spanish, which is literally Cinder's name in spanish. It may be a coincidence but I find it hard to believe

[@chillaxboi2109]

Yo lo sé... Se lo acabo de decir a un tipo aquí. En la versión inglesa, la canción de los Lackless tiene una Nagra mientras que en la versión española dice Blaca, cosas así los lectores ingleses pasan por desapercibido.

Yes, that's a major clue. He's Cinder.

[@isa-ji5lb]

But ash also translates to Fresno, so that could be the reason

[@ChristmasLore]

Rothfuss is not that subtle, so that's probably it. No need to look further.

[@CoopHawke]

@ it's far to obvious even in English. If he is Cinder I'll be extremely disappointed in the secret being basically revealed the second they named him master Ash.

[@ThisAintAStupidName]

I have to say, I love your videos. High quality and well-researched. You mention that if we have any other theories, we can share them. I have a few that haven't been mentioned: -Auris identity -What is behind the "Valaritas" door -Why Kvothe changed his name, and how I have some proof for all of these, and would love to discuss it further :)

[@byrlgaloucura7660]

after kilvin's workshop catches fire, kvothe comes back and talks to him and kilvin says "expect a misfortune every seven years", but this is said in another language, Kvothe says he didn't know what KOTE said he understood "Wait ... every seven years" and then kilvin translates the seventies, then Kote means "misfortune." We know that his life so far has not worked out very well and that he must blame himself very much for something to call himself that

[@FlintMcroy]

"when the third book comes out" Good joke.

[@surveysays8335]

Rothfus is washed up. I don't think he has the ability to write another book that could live up to expectations. Fame does that.

[@ch4rl3magn38]

@@surveysays8335 only time will tell but I know that you will never create anything in your life as good as NOTW you little scamp. You should have been spanked.

[@Darth_Bateman]

I think Rothfuss grew up out of his twenties mentally, realizes how much he hates Kvothe as a character, but he is already in this too deep and no amount of development or course correction will change that. Do you notice how many L's Kvothe takes in The Wise Man's fear? After being literally perfect in Name of the Wind? Further, how is he supposed to close all of those plot points and answer the questions that he brought up in one book? It's like instead of doubling down on the fact that he created a Mary Sue asshole in an EXCELLENT world filled with potentially EXCELLENT people but failed to tell you the dreams and goals of anyone who isn't Kvothe he realized what a mess he made and is REALLY not sure what to do next.

[@CarlosBenjamin]

@@ch4rl3magn38 book 2 certainly lends credence to your assertion.

[@JerBear0328]

@@Darth_Bateman listening to Rothfuss talk about his story makes me think you impression is pretty far off the mark. It seems to me that youre projecting. Also I dont think Kvothe or Denna are Mary Sue type characters. Both have very apparent flaws. The critique about Mary Sue is that there is no internal conflict to make the character interesting. Kvothe may be good at everything he attempts, but he constantly makes poor choices, acts recklessly, and antagonizes authority figures, causing trouble for himself and others. As we found out in the beginning of book one, his poor choices eventually lead to him essentially ruining the world. We probably ought to take a look at what Mary Sue actually means.

[@justbankstanding]

This is awesome bud! I'm loving your vids, it's great to see fans out there making content!!

[@karenhunt7035]

A detail not about Denna but about the Amir: the girl who saw and drew the pottery, the unearthing and showing of which resulted in the Chandrian showing up and killing everyone there, felt the Amir with his hand raised against the Chandrian was more terrible than they were. Also, back in time to the prior Chandrian attack - the one on Kvothe's family, Kvothe himself escaped. The Chandrian who were going to kill him fled because the Amir were coming. Soon after, Kvothe goes to sleep in the family wagon and wakes up to it in flames. The Amir are known to destroy evidence of Chandrian work and to not much care about individuals. Perhaps Kvothe is wrong to believe he caused the fire by not tending his candle - instead the Amir burned it down. What happens when Kvothe learns *that* detail of his life?

[@jacksonbarrett5561]

Holy shit I didn’t think about that!

[@rowanz74]

amyr.

[@alepartidav.7664]

This videos are amazing and have helped me to put so much in context! There are just so many details that I hadn’t analyzed till now. Keep it up!

[@VSValeant]

If Master Ash is Bredon and Amyr, he might be using Denna and her song as bait, to flush out Heliax. The fact that Lanre comes off as a tragic hero might be Denna's romantic notion and Ash might just not care. Or maybe even that is part of a plan, to get some sort of response from Lanre. I also like the idea that Denna is being trained... maybe even to become Amyr herself? Won't that be something...Kvothe and Denna fighting the chandrian... So she might even be in on the plan to bait the chandrian, maybe that's why she is so keen on keeping her patron a secret and dismisses Kvothe's notion that her song is about the chandrian.

[@CapturedInWords]

Yes exactly! The idea that Denna is being trained by an Amyr fits with the fact that the cthaeh told Kvothe to 'stick close to the Maer and he will lead you to the door of the Amyr', Bredon is in the Maer's court and could very well be Denna's patron, and an Amyr who has access to this 'door'. I think this is such an interesting theory and would be really awesome if it turned out to be true!

[@Timboyxxx]

But why would he randomly beat her? Unless the The Cthaeh tells him this to trick him into distrusting the Amyr.

[@Rille922]

Yeah but you best believe that Kwothe will take on cinder alone and haliax. That is s personal fight

[@ramzysheri]

He could also be training her how to fight. You get bruises when you're training this way. He would still be beating her, but it would be in the light of training, not abuse.

[@TheLoudestRager]

Lol no one knows who denna patron is, And it's either someone evil or someone we have never met. My thoughts is that its cinder. Or someone connected to the 7

[@jean-danielboudreau3190]

Just discovered your channel today and I'm enjoying it IMMENSELY. Keep it up! Love the content! ... which is surprising because I usually dislike theory stuff on upcoming books and such

[@CapturedInWords]

Thank you! I really appreciate your comment, and I'll definitely make more videos like this one :)

[@Mariamart2024]

Every time I watch one of your videos. I feel like reading the books again to look out for these hidden clues again. Great videos, keep the great work :)

[@parkerkelevra4817]

One of the best book reviewers! Loved this video and such a great book. Hope we get that third book soon.

[@bunnerkins4165]

I wait on the edge of my seat for each one of these new videos. Awesome work!

[@CapturedInWords]

Thank you! :D

[@shellyjelly5975]

Love hearing your fan theories about the name of the wind. I hadn't given very in depth thought to the identity of Dena's patron so this was really interesting to see. I agree that there is a lot going towards Braedon, I think more because Rothfuss put in the gossip about him which Kvothe ended up giving back to him as a joke, but the specificness of not giving it attention while focusing on that at the same time seems to fall into his style of life; Considering that Rothfuss is an incredibly spoiler free person. Honestly though I think that the mystery behind the greystones is my favorite thing in this universe, here's hoping more is revealed about them later on.

[@ladylizcreates7719]

It has been implied that the Chandrian can mask their sign - I'll try link where I read this. And also, what if Denna is Kvothe's opposite - what if her parents were killed by the Amyr and book 1 and 2 have set her up as Kvothes antagonist? That would be in support of Cinder as her patron and explain her strong feelings towards the song with Lanre as hero.

[@nanorrrRRRrrr]

Agree. I think that's the cause for Denna to disguise as Bast.

[@ProfessorElz]

Love your videos. They hold me over while we wait for book 3.

[@Shovelchicken]

“When the third book comes out” haha, good one.

[@Benjaminreillyevans]

I like the idea that the patron was just training her, makes the Brendon theory go down a lot easier

[@togetherbewell]

I just found your channel and I really like your videos! Super well edited, thought out, and interesting. Can't wait to binge all of these videos 😂

[@CapturedInWords]

Thank you! :D

[@dalycedoes]

I really like the way you laid these theories out! I believe on first-read, it's almost impossible NOT to suspect Cinder of being Denna's patron, but if you look at the text at a deeper level, it does seem more and more like Cinder is a red herring. I never even thought of Bredon being an option, but the way you lay it out, it makes sense. He is most certainly an Amyr, and why not an Amyr AND Denna's patron?

[@jimokane9891]

Are you planning a video about Puppet. He's one of the strangest characters in the series although he's only been in it a bit so far so i guess you wouldn't have much to go on. He seems to know a lot of things he shouldn't including whats behind the doors of stone.

[@CapturedInWords]

Jim O'Kane Yes actually I plan on making a video on what's behind the four-plate door soon, and I'll definitely take some time to talk about Puppet in that, he's *very* mysterious

[@jedediahhopkins6051]

I think her patron is none other then.... *_DALINAR KOLIN!!_* before his reform, duh. Did I spell that right?

[@neocyte85]

Jedediah Hopkins yes! and Elodin is Actually Wit?

[@jedediahhopkins6051]

nEo Pastafarino yes pls

[@frogthing4401]

Close, its Kholin

[@EvilLabStudios]

Oh my god... I just found your channel and I have been looking for some kingkiller lore... I love it... And you have changed the entire books for me... I think your right and that explains why the sword is named folly... I bet it was either master ashes sword or denas...

[@moniquebryson5076]

I am so so happy i've found a booktuber who favours Adult Fantasy! I've been struggling to find one for ages but they're all YA!

[@xospideyxo]

Your videos make me happy

[@TheKyfe]

There are 2 important things I think you neglected: 1 - It is HEAVILY implied that (at least in Kvothe's mind) Denna betrayed him; 2 - Her patron obviously DID NOT tell her to stop singing it, as Kvothe mentions to the scribe (his name escapes me off the top of my head) that he's probably heard the song as it's quite famous. Other than that, very nice. Subscribed :)

[@pairot01]

He said he was betrayed, but never is it stated Denna was the one who betrayed him.

[@alperensarac856]

This actually is a quiet good theory fellow friend. Keep up the good work.

[@CapturedInWords]

Alperen Saraç Thank you! :)

[@rangiapeehugardiner8638]

Theories about bast next

[@shizu96]

Rangiapeehu Gardiner please please please

[@inepthornet3671]

Bast is kvoths son his mother is felurian

[@ulfr77]

@@inepthornet3671 how?

[@inepthornet3671]

@@ulfr77 he did alot of Stuff with felurian. It wouldn't be suprising if he had a kid. Bast seems to be very loyal to cvoth. Hes loyal to the point of almost worship

[@inepthornet3671]

Remember time moves different in fae so he can grow up all the way where everyone else only lives a few months or years

[@PhilosophiPie]

The Amyr's symbol is a TREE( Ash is a kind of tree), C'Thae pointed out that the easiest way to come in contact with the Amyr would be sticking to the mayor( Bredon is part of the mayors court) and his Beard's colour is described as ashen pointing towards Master Ash being Bredon. I think we've got ourselves a pretty clear cut solution here folks...

[@CapturedInWords]

Ahh interesting! I completely forgot the Amyr symbol is a tree! I wish I mentioned that in my video, as this is a further clue that Master Ash could be an Amyr. Thanks for the comment!

[@tannermeche7968]

I thought the Amur symbol was a burning tower

[@kalig1787]

"I've never thought of 'The Broken Tree' as very significant. Although in retrospect I suppose it could be considered at least partially prophetic." -Modern Day Kvothe, page 53 TNOTW

[@danaecancino7796]

One of the spanish translation said Master 'Fresno' instead of 'Ash'. Fresno is a tree.

[@pagebypage1840]

Seeing you in my feed almost gave me a HEART ATTACK!!!! 😍

[@nielspetterthomsen1710]

On the question on Denna's song - it might be that the story Kvothe has been told about Lanre, is the wrong one, and that Lanre was not evil but that Selitos was the evil one. This would mean that Kvothe is on the "wrong" side of things, while Denna is on the "right" side of things. Also because Kvothe has been influenced by the Cthaeh.... So Kvothe might think he is on the right side, and this might make him take some wrongful actions in book 3 - such as killing someone from the Amyr (an angel) before realising what he's done..........

[@sahilkaushal7199]

About That song thing - I think i remember that, kvothe said that denna's that song became quite popular in the future.So, his patron must have allowed her.

[@Rick2367]

I know I'm late to the game, but I'm really enjoying hearing your theories. It reminds me of the time before Harry Potter Bk 7 was released. Based on careful study and thought, I was SURE who/what the last horcrux was and I was gratified to be correct. It will be interesting to see if/when PR finishes Bk 3 who was right on these theories.

[@ddusty53]

Her patron is at least working for one of the Chandrian, in not a Chandrian himself. Remember Denna was asking about a type of magic where you right things down and it comes true; this is something her patron has told her he can do. What I think he means by this is in song. And he is doing it by trying to change the history of Lanre with Denna's song. Kvothe also mentions that Denna's song has become quite popular, something like "i'm sure you've heard it".

[@cefippog2140]

wow !!!!! i'm sooo impressed all what you said just make soo much sense i wish pat could hear all your theories !!

[@Natures-Pathfinders]

Just Finished the books, just found your vids lol Very nice. subbed

[@jessicaash9719]

Love being able to have a discussion of sorts regarding this series thus far. Fun to wrap my mind around the theories: Cinder is playing a "beautiful game" with Kovathe. He has tracked him for most of his life as he wanted to kill him when he was younger but had to flee before he was able too. So he toys with him in his own way. Befriending him, watching him, and twisting things that work against Kovathe. He knows that he loves Genna so takes her. The idea of glamour works. He can hide in plain sight. There was the guard in the mayor's employee who the mayor describes as a mad dog who could be Cinder. The Cthave(sp?) said that the mayor has seen him, stay with him and he will show. Cinder was seen at the camp, during this time Brayden was gone as well. People can hide in plain site, take Kovathe for instance. It is mentioned that fire red hair isn't common in this world but people don't connect him to the stories they tell of Kovathe. If Brayden is Cinder, his comment about playing a beautiful game is his subtle way of playing Kovathe. He toys with him until he reveals himself and kills him. The idea of Brayden being an Amry is also interesting, they both share an interest in Genna. If the Amry are the good guys they may have some rules about hurting the innocent that is why he asked Genna if he could hit her. Another thought, it was mentioned I think in another video about Kovathe being a Lackless. What if his father was an Amry? He jokes that she ran off with a god. It is questioned what happened to the Amry, Kovathe and the mayor had concluded that the Amry could be still around. But maybe they just become part of the world. Kovathes father was allowed to leave the Amry because he fell in love with Natalie. That is why he follows the path of the Adema Ru`. His father was a talented musician, singer, strong, clever, and knows things he aught not to know. His father is killed but Kovathe is still alive because he is a Amry of sorts. But since it is theorized he could be a Lackless which I heartily believe he could also be connected to the Chandrin side of creation. So back to Brayden being an Amry could all tie into his connection with Genna who also hunts for information that her patron is helping her with along with her music which seems to be important in this world. So Breydan playing a "beautiful game" is his way of trying to help Kovathe down the right path however he isnt aware that Kovathe was poisoned by the Cvathe who thinks the worst. This path could lead to the war or the theory about Kovathe becoming a Chandrin once he killed Cinder. That is why he hides. He choose the wrong path which I think happened after Genna perhaps dies and in his despair he unleashes or perhaps creates what is happening that is why he blames himself for the war. He is to heartbroken to do anything but feel bad for himself and the loss of Genna. Apologize for the rambling the book is fresh in mind but it is also 1 in the morning so hence the rambling.

[@lalithanagarajan1055]

You have actually studied the book. A hat's off for your research. I was thinking about Cinder being the patron. But your arguments about other two are quite plausible. Where did you get pictures for this book? I'm going to see all your videos. Keep up yout good work..

[@RTbookworm]

When Bredon first came into the picture, I was convinced he was Denna's patron. I'm glad there's actual evidence to back up my suspicions.

[@aedankor2961]

if i may be honest, keep continue your hard work i mean you will do anyways but you do have the quality of some of the big youtubers even though you are ''small'' right now and that will change in the future for sure. maybe in years but it will happen so keep going ill root for you :)

[@CapturedInWords]

I really appreciate comments like these, as they're what motivate me to make more videos and to try and improve the content I put out there :) Thank you!

[@aedankor2961]

thats really good to hear as i would love more and more content from you haha :) and btw, i can only recommend the Demon cycle and the Sword of Truth series if you haven't read them already :)!

[@CristobalBragagnolo]

I think we must pay attention to the "tragic love" figure of present Kote. He said “I trouped, traveled, loved, lost, trusted and was betrayed.”. I think he was betrayed by Denna in some sort.

[@wingracer1614]

Possible but "trusted and was betrayed" could be totally separate from "loved, lost" which would seem to be Denna. He has trusted many people so far and may yet come to trust several more. There is ample opportunity for betrayal from someone other than Denna.

[@gregsquires6201]

I agree. His tone in the present speaking of Denna is one of bitterness, not sadness. To me it feels more likely that he is betrayed by her, not that he lost her.

[@marcelomochel9410]

Amazing video. Keep Up the good work!

[@KALEIGHdoscope]

Bredon's estates are also in Northern Vintas, and described as having remote woods outside them. Probably not too far from the road through the Eld.

[@evilemuempire9550]

On the song point, I’m pretty sure there’s a scene of Kvothe saying to Bast and Chronicler that they’ve probably heard Denna’s version of Lanre because it’s become so popular, so maybe not discouraged from singing it.

[@Luiz_Alberto.P.K]

I must've read the books 12 times. Never even thinking about her patron being an Amyr. It does make sense, if the c'taeh says Kvothe is close to the Amyr, being with the maer. But I think that Bredon is close to the Amyr, not a member, but a servant. Cause Felurian says that there is no human Amyr...

[@gokcan83]

I think it was Felurian who said that there was never human Amyrs to begin with.

[@Luiz_Alberto.P.K]

@@gokcan83 Damn, you are right. I'm gonna fix it. Thanks.

[@jt364]

I believe the greystones are gateways to the Fae aswell.

[@jt364]

When you need KKC content so you just come back to the good stuff. That art is just beautiful.

[@dovielandau4464]

ctheah says make an impression whens stop to get a drink (referring to deoch not noticing and only notices hair?)

[@sashacampbell3513]

Didn't watch the video because I've only read book 1 but the thumbnail image had me laughing IRL. It's perfect

[@Dank_Engine]

The drawing at 2:05 is so good.

[@BMS1151]

Just to answer the interrogation about deoch being able to recognize cinder when he saw her leave with denna, the ctaheh (i think it was him) mention the fact that the sevens are very good at hiding their distinctive signs so it's not proving anything Denna says though that she's learning things with her patron that she couldn't learn anywhere else

[@ihappentofly]

Love this theory about Bredon & the Amyr! And I really like the idea that she is being trained in combat, and not being beaten. Two things, however: when Kvothe is talking about the song with Bast and the Chronicler, he mentions that they probably have heard it before. That means that the song got famous, which can only come from her singing it. So I don't think her patron told her to stop, which is confusing. And two: why wouldn't Denna tell Kvothe that she's being trained for combat? It's a lot easier to say that than to lie every time about falling off a horse or something. And I believe Kvothe brought it up to her. Why would she rather him think that she's being beaten than being trained?

[@CoopHawke]

Because her patron is very secretive. If she was being trained as an Amyr it would probably be under the rule that nobody can know at all as the order has hidden it's modern existence. If Kvothe knew she was being trained in combat she knows he'd assume she's doing it out of fear of someone attacking or hunting her down and would probably keep a closer eye on her movements.

[@Tipejote]

Good video, I liked both the art and the reasoning.

[@terawinter3076]

Have you read "Lightning Tree?" Bast explains glamour in it- you can change all your features but one. So, Cinder could've left the white hair and nothing else.

[@LumpiDerLump]

Just to add one thing. Denna actually sings the song later again. It was mentioned that everyone knows this song when his story get written down

[@jmcalcy69]

1:20 Do you think the accident in the Fishery was one of Bredon's Chandrian signs? It shouldn't have broken when it did

[@z0mb1e564]

You brought up some interesting points I hadn't considered but ultimately didn't sway me. My theory is that we're being built up for a battle between Kvothe and Denna. Go back to the very beginning. Devin said something like, "this is the man who killed an angel." I think Denna had a tragedy at the hands of the Amyr for the greater good. So Denna is hunting the Amyr with the Chandrian and Kvothe is going to end up fighting the Chandrian with the Amyr. And Kvothe is going to kill Denna with his magic. And that's why he can't use his powers.

[@kevinferreira6608]

A question: what the bloody hell Ferule was doin' on the woods with a briganderie troop? Why a chandrian would be with a bunch of bandits on the middle of nowhere?

[@jaidyannepodsobinski3589]

You mention thinking that waystones will be a part of the third book- I think they might be the Doors of Stone. The books seem to hint at doors that lead to the fae realm based on the moon phase.

[@scrapxiron]

Man I was like nooooooo way he's an Amyr. But that "beating" her by way of training really resonates with me. Good call.

[@saraaslesen2874]

With the way Rothfuss has said that there are “truths within truths” (or something to that effect) and that multiple readings of the books are required to really dig at the truth of all the mysteries in it, I too feel like Master Ash being Cinder is too much of a giveaway to be the truth, or at least the full truth. After this video, I really like the theory that he is Bredon, who is an Amyr. Then again, maybe all of us are still looking in the wrong direction…

[@dylanthony1]

It could make sense that cinder would stay in the maer’s court as maer alverone is actively trying to find the Amyr and itd probably the best interest of the chandrian to get as much insight on the amyr. I haven’t read the story in a while and I might be missing

[@blakesecondemail9944]

Not sure if this matters or not, but when Chronicler first arrives he mentions he has heard some news about "her" which I think is referring to Denna (or Auri). So Denna is secretive and travels. Maybe she did train to be an Amyr ....

[@TheRustyPlace]

I think Bredon is an Amyr, which are of the Fae. They describe him as dark eyed and graceful, both of which were also described of Bast. He also uses the same quote about a freely given gift as Bast. He has a great love of Tak, which Felurian also plays and is quite good. Not wanting to touch iron, he makes sure that Kvothe uses a silver ring to call him. Rumors of pagan frolicking. I think Bredon is also Denna's patron with the ash description, cane, etc.

[@Ζήνων-ζ1ι]

KZbin recommended me this even tho I haven't read these books. Could it be the ASOIAF theories I watch? It's also cool to realize the obvious existence of theory videos for other fantasy novels out there, it makes me wanna read these other fantasy works.

[@hillwin10]

0:05 -- yeah done that a dozen times over the past decade lol (book 3 plz)

[@mfralick3]

To your point about the song Dena's patron has her write. If Braedon is her patron this could be supporting evidence. He mentions when teaching Kvothe Tak that he likes to play a brilliant game. That there is beauty in drawing someone into a trap, that person knowing it's a trap and coming with their own plan, and then having a counter plan. Maybe Braedon is drawing out the Chandrian by having Dena write the song...

[@kirasampson6019]

Great video. Why do you think Denna was so interested in magic? Had she seen some?

[@erickeller1677]

Not sure if you'll see this after over a year or if anyone has commented (I read through about 50 before posting) but I've came to the theory that Bredon is also her patron as well, and is toying with Kvothe knowing full well who he is and what he means to Denna and she to him. I believe the words when they first met on page 430 "Oh yes, I'm going to have quite a bit of fun playing with you." Mean more than just tak.

[@Whoopvideo1]

I believe you're correct in that Bredon is her patron and also an Amyr. How about the theory that Lorren is also an Amyr? That's quite a good one. I've read this series over 100 times in the past year and know it like the back of my hand so I love videos like these exploring things I've thought about many times.

[@CapturedInWords]

Ahh glad to see someone else open to the theory of her patron being an Amyr! I think I'll make a video soon on Lorren being an Amyr, as that's one of my favourite theories and I think he knows things about Auri, maybe even using her to clean the archives of information. Soon I'll be making videos full time, and will make sure to work on a lot more of these Kingkiller videos :) I'm still a newbie to the series but I can tell it's one I'll be re-reading for many years

[@Whoopvideo1]

Captured in Words On the subject of Auri... do you have any theories on who she could be? I have a couple but I don't have a very solid theory. Only very circumstantial ones. I'm not sure if Lorren would have her cleaning out the archives, I'm thinking that's puppets job if I'm perfectly honest. I also think the curtains in his room are hiding a passage to somewhere but I'd need to read through yet again to think more on that.

[@CapturedInWords]

Hmmm I'm not quite sold on any theory about Auri yet, but there are a few I like.I definitely think Auri is older then she seems, as she's mentioned knowing what a Ciridae looks like despite them being hundreds of years old. It's also evident that she's from some royal family, I think there's a strong possibility she could be princess Ariel, sent to study at the university under an alias but driven mad or something similar. Kote mentions that he knows "the truth about Princess Ariel" which is quite interesting. I also thing there's a possibility she could be a Knower, or perhaps even Lyra herself. Maybe when Lanre tried to revive Lyra by going to the Cthaeh, the result was that she was given immortality but became stuck in a dream-like state like what we see Auri in. Auri's identity is another theory that I want to make a video on soon. She's one of my favourite characters, there's just so much mystery to her. Oh and yes that's right, it's most likely puppets job to help with the archives, and I forgot about the curtains in his room!

[@Whoopvideo1]

Captured in Words I was thinking along the same lines as you with Auri being the princess. I'm unsure about her being Lyra as I can't see much evidence to support the point, though it would make for a very interesting plot device. I do believe she is a great knower especially after reading the slow regard of silent things and getting a small window into the machinations of her thoughts. Perhaps she knows of the Amyr because the royal line is still somewhat tied to them? And speaking of the royal line, kvothe is obviously closer to the throne than Ambrose unbeknownst to both of them, but one idea I've been tossing around on pure speculation is that Ambrose is the king that Kvothe kills. It would be a very interesting comeuppance. Or perhaps Ambrose is the current king fighting the war and it was his father kvothe killed

[@Whoopvideo1]

I just realized something. That bone ring stapes gave to Kvothe. I think Kvothe will use that life debt to get the lochless box. Or something of that sort. As he saw the key, he may be able to circumvent the second lock. It seems obvious but I've never heard it voiced before.

[@ifatreefalse]

I'm going with a "kinda". First off: he's literally the King of Vent. The King that Kvothe kills to become the Kingkiller. But it's also possible he's Haliaxe. Cinder was busy in the woods stealing taxes.

[@kaelae6237]

One thing you got wrong, Denna's song "the song of seven sorrows" Kvothe says "you've probably heard of it, most folks have." Which means her song did get out into the world. It's a good point about the cthaeh says, because the tree tells anyone information that sets the path for the worst possible outcome, very true that it could be a manipulated story.

[@whutzat]

12:42 is the image of Denna I go by. That one looks most like an actual person.

[@msfeldstein]

Yep im 100% sold, bredon/amyr. Him beating her with his stick actually being part of training was the key, so many paralells between her and kvothe actually, even he realized it towards the end of TWMF

[@CapturedInWords]

Glad to see another person who is sold on this theory! :)

[@ardasth]

I want to add something about the song. When Kvothe is telling the story about the song and the fight to Chronicler and Bast, he also mentions the song title, and says "but you may know it as...", meaning that the song actually became popular, so... the song must have been sung.

[@bjornthorgudmundsson2781]

The cthae cant lie so in what context could: how far can he go before she cries? How far can he push her before she tries to leave and he has to lure her back again? Relate to training her? If he was training her to fight then he would push her around sure but not to the point of her wanting to leave him and he certainly wouldnt try to lure her back he would just find a new person willing and capable of surviving his training I do buy that bredon is her patron but he is just an abusive asshole who has power over her i would guess his gain from kvothe is that power over denna, he got something that could kill kvothe like a piece of his hair or something and he is using it to lure denna back a stay with me or your love dies kind of relationship Which could be one of the reasons why kvothe cast his life away i remember one theory that the locked chest he has in his room houses the v and the h of his name turning him litterally into kote instead of kvothe it could be a way to get out of bredons strangle hold and freing denna in the end

[@erikortiz2706]

👏👏👏

[@beatrizpennachin]

Well, I don’t know if you already know this and updated the theory, but I think it’s cool to share. I'm brazilian and I read the portuguese version of the book. When I started watching some videos on the subject I found out that they translated the name of Cinder to Gris. And well, when Denna refers to him in the book, she calls him Freixo Gris (Freixo being the translation for Ash, the tree).

[@pairot01]

I think that the hints that Bredon is the patron are much more on the nose than the hints that Cinder is the patron. And besides, we didn't knew of Bredon on book 1, so there's no need for such subtle misdirection as the Feran, Forue, and Fordale hint. If THAT is a red herring but the "he's in the Maer's count, you might already have met him" was not then it'd be a super weird on re-reads.

[@joshmalone7494]

One thing to note, denna's song did get released. Kvothe remarks "no dought you've heard it." That doesn't mean the song didn't get revised however it seems unlikely, to get the revision kvothe would have to tell her everything and I just don't see that happening. So i have doubts about the Aymr camp, unlikely a member of the Aymr would want such a song to exist.

[@anthonyprevost3968]

I’ve always had the impression from Denna that she has a split personality. Idk if anyone else has gotten that impression from her but I can pick up a dynamic difference in her when she’s her normal self vs when she acts more provocative etc. my theory is that her breathing problem should’ve killed her long ago and when she was in that state of in between another personality was forcibly injected into her to make her more controllable. idk maybe I’m just overthinking it but it is what it is

[@NateSonnenfeld]

For some commenters: Bredon =/= Cinder, as Kvothe would have easily recognized him as he did in the forest. Cinder is one of his strongest memories, so no getting confused there. Also, being Bredon would be way out of character. Also, as mentioned by others, Lanre was a hero (up until he became Heliax after speaking to C'thae) - so D's perspective in her song is not very farfetched. In fact, if we go with the very nice theory that Master Ash = Amyr, then perhaps having D sing about Lanre as a hero is one way to have more people (especially Kvothe) become aware of the truth behind the story of Lanre & the struggle between Chandrian/Amyr without getting the singers hunted down / killed by the Chandrian. Maybe. My first instinct about Bredon was that he was D's patron, just like my instinct when I first read Kvothe's mom chastising him about the Lackless song was that she was Lady Lackless, so I'ma go with that. Overall, the idea that Master Ash = Amyr makes more sense than if he were Chandrain, the C'thae is a manipulative jerkoff that would try to convince Kvothe and play on his insecurities to get him into conflict with an Amyr, and Bredon just fits the bill as a hidden mentor figure in that capacity... idk.

[@chillaxboi2109]

I am still thinking that her tutor is Cinder. Master Ash? Doesn't that really equate to Cinder? As a Spanish reader I have found that Rothfuss loves to play with words to mislead the reader, he usually changes words to Spanish in English and in English for the Spanish version. I'm pretty sure that Denna's patron is a Chandrian and that she is key to open the door of stone. Afterall, conversations between Bast and Kvothe talk about her as if she was long gone or not the same.

[@PatrickTeachestheWorld]

If you read the speculation on the Erlus fandom wiki page there are even more clues that Ash is Cinder (and the Priest Justice from Tarbean). Also, I have a small one to add: When Denna mentions that Ash picked her Lyre, kvothe calls it an archaic instrument. This might suggest that Ash is very old (Cinder).

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

that thumbnail is top tier.

[@kraftykatie55]

Can u do a Theory on who betrayed Kvothe? It says multiple times in notw that he was betrayed. What if Denna's patron is cinder and kvothe figured that out and labeled that as his big betrayal? What if simmon turned out to be that terrible king in the modern world kvothe lives in? It'd make for a SUPER cool video. (PS, thx for doing this, I'm desperate for some rothfuss book theories and fan art)

[@CapturedInWords]

Thanks for the idea! I will for sure be making a video on this at some point!

[@felipercalvo]

one wrong detail, we DO hear about the song later, when kote is talking with the writter he says some thing like "you problably already heard the song, although with slight changes", só her patreon did not tell her to drop the song

[@CapturedInWords]

Ahh I completely missed that, my bad!

[@joelfahlberg2679]

Thanks for an interested video :) I just came to realize something else while going through The Wise Man's Fear. Rothfuss keeps hinting at Ambrose being quite close in line to kingship and somehow I feel like he's setting things up for him to be the king that is going to get killed. Knowing Pat, that's probably way off the mark though :)

[@bwilhelm4214]

She helped gather all the folks at the farm then her boss has her step away while the Chandirans wipe out the farm then beat her up and knock her out. they found no tracks away from the farm and she was left there alone. The song for Lanre is pretty on the nose as well.

[@yori622]

I haven't seen any theories about what she said while she was dosed on denner resin. Kvothe tried waking here and she whispered "malkev" like it was a person she knew trying to wake her... Thoughts, or has this already been explained. If so, link please.

[@gert_kruger]

I think the grey stones function as portals to travel quickly between.

[@LynxieDove]

When I 1st read NOTW, I thought her patron was mostlikely Chandrian, but I've also considered that he isn't Chandrian, but working for them, or somehow being manipulated by them.

[@maxbaugh9372]

I was thinking Master Ash was Bredon until Denna's song about Lanre, now I'm less sure of it. Ash is obviously interested in the Chandrian in some way, but the impression I got was more "trying to figure out how to defeat them" than being one himself, though of course I could be completely wrong.

[@DougCachaca]

Also, the Cthaeh mentions that the Maer Alveron had just met the Amyr, which may imply that maybe he was talking to Bredon...

[@snowi8]

I really need to reread this series tbh. It's been too lang and these kind of theories are sooo interesting. I just don't remember everything...

[@codywachsmuth8169]

she did not "stop singing the song" it is specifically stated by "present" Kvothe that it is a widely popular song now and that just about everyone has heard it.

[@CapturedInWords]

Ahh yes I misspoke with that part, as a few people have mentioned. You're right, it's mentioned that the song is widely known.

[@Mr.ScentSational]

They come up with the name Ash but is Ash also not known as a cinder