Carbonating a Keg with the Rapid Carbonator - Start to Finish

[@Eeeishhh]

Somebody, please give this man a handkerchief.

[@TimTrabold]

Update. I realize why it was so over-carbonated. I realized this after retracing some steps I had done a year or so ago and forgot about (due to a question by MSULOCK3191). I put a pressure gauge in between mine and the keg. I realized that I was reading and using the wrong scale on the gauge. There are two scales (I am not sure why, but I think one is for flow and the other for pressure). One goes from 0-45, the other 0-100. I was using the 0-45 scale and should have been using the 0-100, scale, which coincided with the other gauge I put in line. So, instead of 11 lbs of pressure, I was putting it in at somewhere around 25 lbs. DUH.

[@TimTrabold]

I have recently learned something about carbonating with a stone I thought I would share. I didn't really know of a concept called "wetting the stone". What this is, is the pressure it takes to get CO2 to start flowing through the carbonating stone. Blichmann, in their Quickcarb instructions, recommends setting your pressure 1-2lbs greater than the carbonating pressure. I suspect this is to account for this with their 10 micron stone. I hadn't really taken into account that my stone, which has 2 micron holes (smaller), needs more pressure to "wet". Having just learned this, I haven't checked what that is yet, but if you are having issues with your stone not flowing and your beer not carbonating this could be why. Figure out what the wetting pressure of your stone is by putting it into a bucket of water or Starsan and cranking up the CO2 pressure until it flows. Whatever this pressure is needs to be added to the carbonating pressure listed on the carbonating chart. I have read about people who have .5 micron stones having a wetting pressure of 4 lbs. I suspect that my 2 micron stone's pressure is around 3 lbs based on how my beers have been carbonating and watching the bubbles flow in the tubing. Again, I haven't calibrated it yet. I have also read that you should add 1 lb of pressure to account for the weight of the beer. So, if the carbonating chart says to set pressure at 9 lbs pressure for a 36 degree beer to reach 2.3 levels of CO2, and the wetting pressure is 4 lbs then you would set your quick carbonating CO2 pressure to 9 + 4 + 1 = 14 lbs of pressure. Once equilibrium is reached you should have perfectly carbonated beer. Let me know if you try this and it works for you.

[@1978garfield]

Nice looking Keezer.

[@smntsn]

Thank you so much! I like every minute of watching you. I learned a lot. Thanks again... :)

[@TimTrabold]

You are very welcome. Thanks for watching! Cheers!

[@peterowens290]

OK thanks for the video & the effort to describe your method(s). I have to say that I see little purpose in fast carbonation. Most commercial brewers will say that beer needs some time (normally a few weeks) to "condition". As home brewers we may not do this, but in my experience some yeast will continue to fall out after kegging & that time (maybe a few days) can be used to allow a more gradual carbonation. In my case I usually pressurise the keg to about 50/60 psi & repeat after a couple of days. Then maybe 20 psi until I see the pressure stabilise at about my pouring pressure of about 8 psi. This whole time my keg is at about 4 deg C. Simple, minimum investment, less gear & less opportunity for contamination. Finally removing oxygen by purging a dozen times at 30 psi seems both unnecessary & costly. My approach seems to work well enough - 4 purges from 10 psi !

[@TimTrabold]

Thanks, I tend to agree. Since I built it I have only used it a few times. I typically just set it and forget it in the keezer. But, it is nice to know that if I need to get a keg done fast for an event or I am just impatient, that I can do it. It wasn't expensive to build and is another tool in the arsenal.

[@JCMCNL]

Thanks for this vid. Please keep them coming as you learn more!

[@TheSaint135]

Your sniffing is very distracting 😅 thank you for this video it was very educational

[@debernardez]

Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge!

[@santiagomarquez7414]

I used this Quickcarb to carbonate my beer, but when bottled (with a BeerGun) I get too much foam in the bottle and almost no beer, after finally filling the bottle I tap it. And when I try my beer it does not have almost gas or sometimes nothing ...... do you have any advice that can help me with this? I would greatly appreciate it :).

[@drYord]

Hey Tim, first of all, thanks for the video, I made my InLine system by your instructions, now I have an idea that I want to try out, and I would like you to give me an opinion. In principle the workflow should be like this, primary fermentation is done in a plastic conical fermentor, where after cold crashing it with glycol immersion chiller, I would transfer Beer with a pump to a pressurised stainless steel vessel (custom made Brite essentially), but in between I would be transfering the beer through a 1st chiller with a copper coil dropping the temp to 2C, 2nd Filter (made from inline single pass water filter) and in the end an inline carbonator. After complete transfer from Primary, i would reattach the hose from the primary to the Brite's OUT and recirculate until reaching equilibrium. This is basically the same principle as if I am using a keg, so please answer, your advice and opinion would be helpful. best regards, George

[@TimTrabold]

Thanks for the comments and question. I think that would work and it sounds very similar to the way a lot of micro-breweries do it. I do know that in lot of the commercial brite tanks they just hang a carbonation stone connected to the top tri-clover connector into the beer and crank up the pressure to force carbonate. Most of the time this is in their walk in fridge to keep it cool. When you say "and in the end an inline carbonator" are you disconnecting the filter and connecting the carbonator to re-circulate or passing it through the filter while carbonating? I have thought of filtering, but usually just rely on finings and cold crashing. How do you purge the filter of oxygen and sanitize it? Do you run sanitizer through the filter and push it out with CO2? Getting all of the oxygen out of the paper or charcoal has always worried me with house filters. But, a lot of people use them. I would also make absolutely sure that your chiller is clean and sanitized. The most important things I would watch are sanitization and Oxygen getting in somewhere. It only takes a small problem with either of these to effect the beer.

[@michaelwiebe6522]

Thank you for this Tim, I had not considered using a pump to help speed up carbonation. Seems so obvious now.....hindsight lol.

[@TimTrabold]

The gas hose that I used for the carbonator is not what I use for gas line in my keezer. Without being there to look at it, I think it is a smaller diameter hose chosen to match the fitting on the aerator. I believe it is really beer line (3/16''ID x 7/16''OD). In my Keezer I use thickwall 5/16" ID x 9/16" OD gas line. This is standard. The standard for beer line is 3/16". I have used 3/16" beer line in both thick and thin walled. The thickwall is 3/16''ID x 7/16''OD and the thin walled is 3/16''ID x 5/16''OD. Both work OK if cut to the right length.

[@mitchbob8]

Hey mate, love your vids! Just wondering if you notice a more consistent carbonation using this process? I’m currently just hooking up to keg the standard way and leaving it but some glasses come out active and others not. It’s a pain when folks come over and think my beer is flat cause of lack of activity. Just wondering if you’ve experienced this thanks in advance, Mitch

[@JDWebb]

I put a system together exactly as you have. I started carbing, but after 3 or 4 minutes, the out line runs clear. I am carbing at 10 pounds PSI. It doesn't seem like it's carbing at all once the pressure equalizes in the keg.

[@TimTrabold]

I have found that it seems to work best at a couple lbs higher than the charts and then I dial it back later.

[@RobertJonesSilum]

Did you ferment in the bottling bucket? When you transfer do you have any trouble sucking up trub during the pour to the keg through that faucet? I only ask because that was so much simpler than the way I do it and you seemed to have really good results.

[@TimTrabold]

Robert, Thanks for the question. I ferment in buckets with spigots. I usually keg and bottle. I typically transfer to the keg first, then to the bottling bucket on top of the priming sugar. I like using fermenting buckets with spigots because it makes it easier to take gravity readings and transfer. I take extra special care to make sure everything is clean and sanitized every time. Going to the keg first I usually don't have any trub transfer there. After transferring the rest to the bottling bucket I let it sit for a while, maybe a half hour or more, so any transferred trub settles. If I was going to the keg only I would still do it the same and be careful at the end. The only real danger would be a little trub in the first pour or two, which is not really a big problem.

[@maraiskotze9241]

Good video, question of carbonating the Keg can you put it back in kegerator, without Connecting C02 on it en leave till you wanna drink it or should you still have a 5-8 PSI C02 on it

[@TimTrabold]

Once you carbonate the keg, it will be under pressure. The CO2 infused into the beer will stay there unless it is allowed to escape and the beer allowed to go flat. So, unless you release pressure before putting it into the kegerator and it doesn't leak, it will stay under pressure and it should be fine for months until you are ready to tap it. You don't need to leave it connected to your CO2 tank. Also, even if you do release some pressure the CO2 infused into the beer will escape into the headspace and build pressure back up to some level (but less than what it was). That is how you fix an over-carbonated keg. You let it sit, then let some pressure out. After doing this a few times, the CO2 is released out of the beer and the carb level is reduced. You just stop when the level is good.

[@96driver]

Nice video. I'll be doing this

[@cesarsosasolis5041]

Hello Tim, I am new using kegs. I just bought my first pair the last week, I want to know what kind of hose do you use for de CO2. It does look thin when you put the CO2 on the bottles and you got red one on the kegerator. Is it the regular one if not, what kind should I get? thank you.

[@TimTrabold]

Slight update. I checked the lines on the carbonator today. The gas line from the tank to the aerator is 3/16" ID x 5/16" OD beverage line. It is sized to the aerator. The lines to and from the pump for the beer are 5/16" ID x 7/16" OD. I sized them to fit the input/output on the pump. I had to buy fittings for the "T" to match them.

[@cesarsosasolis5041]

Thank you!

[@krwilson77able]

Hi Tim. I see your priming pump has electrical wires to it. In your previous video you have a AC adapter. Can you elaborate on what the pump is wired to?

[@TimTrabold]

I am not totally sure, but I think in the other video I had it wired to another power supply. That power supply failed (it was only 1 or 2 amps). I got a 12v/4a power supply and it works well (it is actually a replacement flat screen TV power supply). It is wired to the red & yellow wires (the white wires are just screwed into the board to be used to hang it).

[@p3brews736]

awesome lab amigo. cheers #p3brews

[@TimTrabold]

Thanks! Cheers!

[@WA8QFE]

Tim, I just ordered the same pump your using...thanks for that info. Have you seen or used the keg lids that have the third gas fitting, attached to a 2 foot tube and a stone on the end ? I'm going to try that, just ordered on on Amazon for about $29. Lee, Indianapolis

[@TimTrabold]

I have seen them, but never used them. I do know breweries that use them in their Brite Tanks to force carbonate with much success. Let us know how it works.

[@patrickroyal2420]

Francis Thompson did that keg lid work?

[@MFD3D]

I've been using carbonation lids for about 3 years...they work great. I just suggest getting 1 for each keg. That way you don't need to keep switching lids around

[@ReverendRobin]

The B brand uses a 6V power supply and its pump is listed @50 PSI. Did you use a 12V power supply? If so, your pump's spec is 100 PSI at full strength. I guess if you switch to a 6V power supply like the B brand, your pump's PSI will drop in half to 50, which may solve your over carbed problem.

[@TimTrabold]

Yes, I did get a 12v/4a power supply and it works well (it is actually a replacement flat screen TV power supply). I don't think the pump's PSI would make that much of a difference, if at all. It is just recirculating and there is no real resistance or back pressure, other than the CO2 going in. That would probably come into play if I was pumping up a hill. That is interesting about the B one, I maybe could have saved some money on a smaller sized pump (it was only $16, so no big deal). Their instructions say to run for 30-40 minutes at 1-2 psi above the chart. I may try that next time. FWIW they also use a 10 micron stone compared to my 5 micron one. I think part of the bad pour was due to the beer still being a little excited. I waited about 30 minutes after moving it to the Keezer to pour one. I probably should have waited a little longer. I poured a glass the next day and the carbonation was pretty good. I also think I should have carbed it at a little lower PSI, on the lower end of the range for 2.2 vols. I probably should have checked it at about 45 minutes too, when it started to slow down. I don't know. Having only used it twice, I guess I am still in the live and learn stage.

[@TimTrabold]

Update. I realize why it was so over-carbonated. I realized this after retracing some steps I had done a year or so ago and forgot about (due to a question by MSULOCK3191). I put a pressure gauge in between mine and the keg. I realized that I was reading and using the wrong scale on the gauge. There are two scales (I am not sure why, but I think one is for flow and the other for pressure). One goes from 0-45, the other 0-100. I was using the 0-45 scale and should have been using the 0-100, scale, which coincided with the other gauge I put in line. So, instead of 11 lbs of pressure, I was putting it in at somewhere around 25 lbs. DUH.

[@breyton490]

So if I were to build this system now, should I be searching for a 50 PSI dc pump or just pick up the 100 psi pump and use a 6v power supply? I am also thinking about using the pump to push beer thru a cartridge filter and use to transfer beer from fermentor to keg..

[@evertfabianparrasilva1486]

is a closed system, there is no danger that in the constant injection of CO2 can increase the pressure in the system, making explosion?

[@TimTrabold]

Good question, but it is nothing to worry about. The pressure on the tank is never set to be at more than 12-15lbs pressure for beer serving. At that pressure all the CO2 that can be absorbed is absorbed into the liquid, no more. The pressure in the tank will never rise to the level higher than that, or to a level that would ever cause any issues. That is not to say that the tank pressure would never go up. If the temperature of the tank of beer was raised, some of the CO2 would try to escape from the liquid, but not enough to raise the pressure significantly. Since it is in a closed tank it won't go anywhere. Pressure would increase because lower temps allow the liquid to absorb more gas, but, even when this happens it would never rise to a pressure level that would in any way be dangerous. The beer in them would never generate that much pressure. Finally, Corny kegs are designed to hold 120-130 lbs of pressure. They have pressure relief valves that would never let the pressure raise to that level. Also, the seals would give out before it got that high.

[@evertfabianparrasilva1486]

thanks for your time, you have tried it with barrels of 50 liter and type D system?, I think that these have more endurance than the corny

[@msulock3191]

Am I mistaken, but it looks like your output pressure gauge is setup for cubic feet per minute instead of pound's per square inch?

[@TimTrabold]

You are right and initially that confused me too (this is a $35 Harbor Freight Tools welding gauge). I did some research (it has been a year or so). I believe I found out that the gauge is printed wrong or that it is the same thing. I can't remember which. I tested this by putting it in series with an air tool pressure gauge and they measured the same (inside ring). I think the outside one may measure flow and the inside one pressure. Thanks to your question I went back and double checked and realized that I was using the outside ring and should have been using the inside one. I totally forgot that and it explains why it was so over-carbonated. Thanks for the question, you just helped me to solve a big problem.

[@TimTrabold]

I used it for the third time a couple nights ago on a WIt. I ran it for about 45 minutes at about 11lbs to get the 38 degree beer to about 3.0 levels of carbonation. Well, it seems like 45 minutes is still way too long. I tried a pour and it filled the glass up with foam. Once the foam in the glass subsided, after about 10 minutes, it tasted good and was still carbonated OK. Last night I let the pressure off from the PRV. I re-attached the CO2 and set it to about 4 lbs. It still came out 2/3 foam. I think I am going to need to let pressure off a few times to get it settled down. I was pouring through a picnic tap with about a 4 foot line, maybe it needs to be longer. The beer in the line only had a few bubbles, but boy it expanded when it came out.If you are going to use one of these make sure your keg lid has a pressure relief valve, just in case.

[@TimTrabold]

Update. I realize why it was so over-carbonated. I realized this after retracing some steps I had done a year or so ago and forgot about (due to a question by MSULOCK3191). I put a pressure gauge in between mine and the keg. I realized that I was reading and using the wrong scale on the gauge. There are two scales (I am not sure why, but I think one is for flow and the other for pressure). So, instead of 11 lbs of pressure, I was putting it in at somewhere around 25lbs. DUH.

[@evertfabianparrasilva1486]

Hello my friend, Could you carbonate with this method with nitrogen gas?

[@TimTrabold]

I would say no, since nitrogen doesn't actually create bubbles (aka carbonation). "Nitrogen" gas for beer is really a beer gas that is actually 75%/N2 and 25%/CO2. Unlike carbon dioxide, nitrogen is insoluable in beer. It will not bubble like CO2. The nitro taps used have a restrictor plate filter that the beer is forced through at higher pressures to release the CO2 as tiny bubbles to create the cascading effect. The nitrogen allows you to push the beer at a higher pressures (30 lbs vs 10-12 lbs) to get it through the plate without over carbonating it (since there is only 25% CO2 in the mixture). It does not actually create bubbles, it just allows for the miniaturization of the CO2 bubbles already carbonated into the beer.

[@CaoHernan]

Could you give me the pump info please? What type of pump is it? thank you very much

[@TimTrabold]

hernan cao I don't have the specs handy. But if you check in the comments area of the video I believe I have it listed there with everything from eBay

[@TimTrabold]

Sorry, here is a link to the video with all the specs: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hamvkq2fn8-aprc

[@Pheenix9900]

useful information....but sniff sniff sniff sniff sniff

[@TimTrabold]

I guess it was a winter cold.

[@DIYBrewing-drinkbeer]

That's a gluten allergy right there.

[@staziodome]

soffiati il naso :)

[@totallyrandomlocksandpicks]

Was looking forward to learning something potentiality.... Not sure if you have a legit medical condition or neglect your health? this is a problem....this is the third/4th/5th video I've seen where you have the sniffles? Are you aware of cross contamination? at all? As for the content...it is good information wise however the constant nose snort/sniffling is impossible to watch (read disgusting to listen too) not shitting on you mate I swear a lot in my videos some folks don't like that. I would suggest from a viewer standpoint re accessing when you make ya videos from a health perspective. Otherwise happy brewing!

[@TimTrabold]

Interesting. I think I remember someone else commenting on that. It might have been the time of year or a cold or something in the air. I'm typically healthy as a horse. Thanks for watching. I will keep this in mind in the future. I'm also trying not to say umm or aaah or uhh but that's more of a preparation thing. Can someone make a bump key using JB Weld or would it be too fragile?

[@totallyrandomlocksandpicks]

@@TimTrabold All good mate I was probably a bit harsh in my commentary hygiene freak side of me perhaps? Ah never mind the um's and ah's I'm just as guilty of it, I just turn the camera on and film almost zero prep, that's how I like to do it :) As for a JB weld bump key? don't know *probably doable with a silicon mold (dental putty) impression of a bump key that the JB weld would be poured/injected into. That said there is a high chance it may be too fragile and break "in use" destroying the lock/key or ability to open it.( as bumping is considered a fairly violent kinetic attack) ....Interesting thought none the less, if I ever try it and it works I'll make a video and let you know ;) Bear in mind never to mess with locks you do not own or rely on ie in use. Hope you are well :)

[@TimTrabold]

I agree the JB weld might break being that thin. It might work for a emergency key copy with a mold, but why bother when there are hardware stores and locksmiths everywhere. I once went to a seminar where a guy, Kevin Mitnick, spoke. He came to fame in the states years ago as black hat computer hacker who got off on breaking into government computers to show he was smarter them them. After he was caught (and got out of jail) he turned into a security expert and now is making bank. He hands out business cards that are screen printed thin sheet metal that have been punched out with lock pick patterns. I never separated them off the card sheet but they were cool nontheless. Cheers.

[@totallyrandomlocksandpicks]

@@TimTrabold Interesting you met the Phreak himself cool story ;) If you really wanted a key copied "spook" style woods or fields metal works I've opened Abloy, Medeco's and Lockwood cylinders with woods metal keys as described above....Me thinks you may have seen a blue box back in the day :) Btw going to try this method as you described at some point thanks for the video!

[@dirtyblond2332]

Doing so many thing wrong here, but #1 dont disconnect the co2 and leave it flowing. Its a blatant waste, and makes you look foolish. #2 2-3 short bursts will clear the extremely small amount of headspace of oxygen. #3 To wet the stone, put it in a glass of water and slowly add pressure. 1psi, 2psi, 3psi, etc u til you start to see bubbles. You will likely be around 3-4 psi. Now, take whatever psi you would normally carb with, say 10psi as an example, and add the 3-4 psi to get 13-14psi. The first 3-4 psi is overcoming the stones resistance, so the 10 psi can get to the beer. But for the love of all things sacred, dont allow the co2 to freeflow...

[@TimTrabold]

Thanks for watching the video and the constructive criticism. I do have some responses. #1) As foolish as you think I might look, I will continue to use the two to three cents of CO2 when it is necessary to keep O2 away from my beer. be that from a line or from the keg. Lines need to be bled too and you need positive pressure when attaching fittings and connectors. I am not totally sure where in the video you are talking about, but if I did it, it was for a good reason. #2) Regarding bleeding a keg, this is simple science Each time you start to bleed a keg you are introducing CO2 into a regular atmosphere in the head space consisting of about 21% O2, 78% N , .04% CO2 and other gases (unless you are doing low-ox transfers or using other methods to reduce this). I have read and surmised that these numbers shrink by about half each time you bleed the keg with CO2, which is almost non-existent at the start. This is providing you are using about 14 lbs pressure (twice regular atmospheric pressure). So, a simple geometric progression tells you that it can take up to 15 times of bleeding, adding what amounts to about 50% CO2 to the keg reduce your O2 down to the 15PPM you want (and what commercial breweries strive and test for). If you are only doing it 2-3 times you are leaving a lot of oxygen and your beer will oxygenate in the keg. It may take a while and you might drink it faster than this, but it will happen of the keg doesn't kick fairly fast. Why take the chance? When I was studying and taking classes for my beer judge certification we tasted a lot of beers, mainly commercial, that were oxygenated. It was surprising that it was noticeable in beer between 6 months and a year old. #3) You are correct in your explanation of "wetting pressure". I actually went over this 6 months ago in the comment previous to yours. Please subscribe to my channel.

[@dirtyblond2332]

@@TimTrabold - Very well stated, however the consideration that co2 is heavier than O2 didnt enter your equation for the keg, though it did for the bottles. With only 3-4 inches of headspace in the keg, 3-4 short bursts of co2 fill the space a couple times over. Co2 being heavier than O2 means the O2 is pushed up and out the PV first, leaving a blanket of co2 (just like the bottles) If it makes you feel more comfortable doing 15-20 purges, and the waste doesnt bother you, have at it. Its certainly a "better safe than sorry" situation I could come around to understanding (like life insurance), but in my opinion and experience of having made thousands of gallons, it isnt neccessary. To each their own. We both probably make damn fine beer that the other would greatly enjoy, and ultimately, thats what counts.

[@TimTrabold]

@@dirtyblond2332 You are assuming that the CO2 immediately settles. I think it takes quite a while for the gasses to separate, a lot more than in a few purges time. Otherwise, we wouldn't really worry about it. Every time some gas enters the keg during serving it mixes up what is in it and some of that left over O2 is going to touch your beer and may stick to it. Just like CO2 in atmosphere doesn't all settle to the ground on a closed room, it mixes in and is turbulent. I just think it is better to just dilute it down and not worry. As you said, better safe. Brew on. Cheers!

[@hoho-k8w6l]

your pump is not food grade. you should change it for your health.

[@TimTrabold]

Thanks for the concern, but I think I will stay with it. It is made of hard molded plastic with rubber seals. The pump is made for pumping water. Once the pump was initially cleaned to remove any manufacturing release agents it is as clean and sanitary as a plastic fork, knife, measuring cup, etc.. I seriously doubt that there is anything in that is going to leach out and contaminate my beer with anything harmful in the 45 minutes to an hour it is in contact with the small pump assembly. "Food Grade" is a misnomer. In my very limited experience and research I believe that pretty much all plastic is food grade unless it is specifically labeled "do not use for food". If the plastic was dissolving at such a rate to cause harm, it would stop working. People worry way too much.