CARBY VS SNIPER EFI - on the dyno.. it didnt quite go to plan

In this episode, we have a crack at tuning both the Sandman and the HQ on the dyno to see how they both go, we didnt quite get the results we were after, but we did learn alot from it.
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Nathan - @crazycamo

[@Dig163]

Hey fellas' with the vacuum gauge "Hg" is Mercury. It measures vacuum in inches of Mercury at 60F. If you put a volume of Mercury in a glass tube and then apply a vacuum to the top of it and the height to the mercury surges up 15 inches it's said to have 15 inches of mercury.

[@andrewthrelfall5326]

Love the "It's such a dirty engine bay" ... and it looks completely detailed lol

[@honestpat7789]

The green Q sounds like a really well tuned engine. Grunty. It gives the impression that it’s making a lot more than 108-110kw 👏

[@JuStDaNsViDs]

My 39 yo VH 253 with 3 inch exhaust and stupidly oversized 1 and 3/4 inch pacemakers sounds grumpy as fuck. Unknown motor and cam, but a Suzuki swift would most likely smash it from the lights...

[@dannork1240]

Maaan do I wish we got more Australian cars up here. That green one looks awesome and I’d drive the wheels right off it👍🏼

[@threefiftyone4726]

I've always been a big carb guy myself. If you don't buy a crap $50 one from a swap meet that's had 20 "expert carb tuners" drilling stuff out on them they work well right out of the box.

[@drad81]

I just swapped out my 650 brawler for a Sniper EFI on my VH with a 304. Best thing I did. Car runs great, feels smoother with better power across the rev range and I get an extra 50kms out of a tank. Sure the carby may have needed a better tune but I'm no mecahnic and have no idea how to do it. Sniper EFI just works

[@adelaideinvigilation5230]

That is a fifty year engine possibly designed in the early 60s, so pretty good that they are still going

[@paulthompson1654]

Remember dynos are great for full throttle pulls but pretty average for part throttle acceleration and cruise . Always check fuel mixtures on the road test

[@slawski81]

Hey Legends, I run a sniper on my F100 and it’s been faultless. I went for the Hyperspark setup straight up though. I also put a four hole phenolic carb spacer, 1/2 inch under the sniper and a metal 1/2 spacer under that. This got rid of the whistle on tip in and smoothed the whole thing out. Go’s better too. Best of luck with it. 👍🏼😎

[@hayden6056]

Sandman made the same power as an Ecotec does with gumtree headers and a towing cam , not bad haha.

[@Robert-mn8gc]

Owned a 1978 Sandman Van in Green with the purple 💜 Stripes. 4.2 ltr with extractors & a 350 holley . Including a $1800 sound system. My parents could hear me 2 ks away . Wish l never sold it

[@dazaspc]

Glad to hear the Hyperspark is working for you. I was going to suggest a a MSD box and maybe a blue or black motor dizzy. But even with a points dizzy the MSD boxes really clean up idle as they spark duration for about 15deg of rotation so no idle misses. You can set the timing a bit more advanced and they still start easy cold because of the 15 deg of spark. It made a huge difference to my Hemi 6 even on a dirty old single barrel carb. It no longer needed an idle up for the AC and improved the economy a bit. I was able to set the timing back to allow it to run nice on normal unleaded without loosing power. Been running one for over 10 years.

[@grimreaper6112]

A Hemi 6 could make a good artificial reef.

[@ianlewin444]

Scary times for those engines - but seriously how good was the 253 at full noise 👍🏼👍🏼

[@grimreaper6112]

253 where junk in there day now there are no words.

[@JuStDaNsViDs]

Sings the song of our people!

[@seanalexander9531]

"WHY WON'T YOU WORK!!" Never-before-heard words in any other home garage 🤣

[@BluesShed]

Great stuff boy's I've now had 4 sniper units fitted to my XC 351CLEVELAND I'm getting rid of it I keep getting cts low Err which runs the engine really rich because it thinks its neg 40f Drove it the other day and it wouldn't fault and it's really strong I had one unit just die altogether I agree with you that holley are a generation away from sorting it out I'm moving to a system with a stand alone computer Keep up the great work Cheers

[@jpstrim]

Another great ep gents! Glad to see the sniper is coming along and you aren't afraid to show the ups and downs.

[@lukeberne428]

How good is the bright rod run👌 I'm lucky enough that my old boy lives in bright.

[@benjohnson7170]

Great comparo boys. Love the nitty gritty. Also the idea that a really old small capacity engine can sound so good and looks like fun. Smiles for miles. A bit scary in the seat indeed. Cheers

[@ruffenuff9017]

Both cool cars guys. And I’m a Ford man! I’ve heard of people having dramas with Holley Sniper systems on dual plane manifolds. Maybe keep an eye out for a single plane inlet manifold for it and give that a shot. Engine Masters on Motortrend did a full episode on it and found that made a massive difference. Great ep. Well done 👍

[@halayeous]

Great video lads - takeaway from me is that you need to go all in on the Sniper to really see the benefits, can't wait for the next ep!

[@callum898]

Ive had lots of dramas with dual plane intakes and Holley EFI. I went to a Weiand single plane that came with one of my old clevelands. Night and day difference. It cleaned the idle right up. Have seen people run phenolic open spacers or notch the divider in the intake for balance as the map sensor in a sniper is only on one side.

[@hsn5150]

Thanks for the great comparison, as you mentioned at the end an update on how you got the Sniper running better with as much detail as possible would be awesome.. I am restoring a HZ ute and was going to go Sniper but I want to be confident on getting a good result with the money that's involved... Great content and well presented guys, love watching each week to see what you are up too and I have learnt a lot and applied it to my own build, currently putting the 308 and T5 together after re watching your efforts... If it's not Scary you are not trying hard enough, Cheers.

[@matthewpickering9270]

Just beautiful cars love the content keep the amazing work up lads.

[@rodwhite293]

I agree with the comments about the dual plane manifolds/spacer.. You might also have the same IAC issue I recently had with a sniper where the secondaries stay open at idle because there isnt enough spring tension to hold em closed against the engine vacuum. I had to wind the spring another turn to get enough tension to hold them closed and then I could tune the IAC (bit fiddly but you guys look like expert fiddlers!!). Cheers and thanks for the content...

[@rhiannonniallromey652]

Good to see you persevere with the Hollywood Efi project. If the promise is it works well out of the box, then its a good way to show people what to expect for the different aspects and additions that may still need to be made. Hope you get some development credit from Holley. Love the 253 4.2 litre. The baby Iron Lion

[@stevenmarshall3312]

I finished my two fiddy tree sniper install about 12 months ago and complete with hyperspark ignition it hasn't stopped once on me. Like jumping into any late model car now, turn the key no matter what the temp is, and it fires up 1st pop.

[@southerndiy1]

That’s the best sounding 108kw I’ve ever heard 😅🔥

[@BensSightSoundandAuto]

It would be interesting to see the difference a multipoint manifold would do. Like an Edelbrock Air Gap dual plane with rails, injectors and 4bbl TB. Run from a Haltech or similar. End of the day the Holley is still a single point EFI system.

[@GarageItYourself]

Glad you decided to let the Holley control the ignition too. I like the Holley Sniper but it is still a compromise due to how the injectors fire into the 4 barrel body and relying on fuelling to overcome an ignition issue cos the advance curve is too much or too little here and there. I don't think they were ever meant as a balls out power product but more something to give slightly better performance than a carb with better reliability and economy in mind. Plus if you aren't confident with electrics and figuring out issues then problems will arise. Old electrics can cause real issues for modern electronics that need good stable voltages to work properly. A carby can never be tuned to match every single engine load and perfect fuelling like EFI can but when jetted correctly they'll produce great power at wide open throttle. Fingers crossed you find the little 253 trouble free now and the next step up would be a port injection manifold and stand alone ECU with LS coil packs 😉

[@directorwiechern1474]

Sure sound good for ole girls, Sniper needs at least msd 6al to control timing then im sure it would run even better, Holly stil make carburaters for a reason though, aye.

[@paulthompson1654]

hi tuning efi and carbs are all about vacuum . How much fuel and when . Measure the profile of vacuum at idle in gear ,,,,,,,, set idle mixtures to highest reading A/F ratio wherever it runs best at light throttle cruise 70---90km/h vacuum reading ,,,,set primary main jet here 14:1---14.5 A/F At the vacuum reading you get at 85-90kmh have your PCV opening here Set the PV restrictor/jet to mixture of 13.5:1 A/F air bleeds its all about shape of the fuel curve low speed if u want a fatter early acceleration think richer transition port mixtures ,, more trial/error high speed,, bigger hole if fuel curve gets fatter the higher the rpm high speed smaller hole if mixture gets leaner the higher the speed emulsion bleeds go bigger or smaller holes at specific rpm range fine tuning . Good tuning principles come from many weber tuners .

[@TURBOTRISTO]

I’ll watch this after work but I predict this will go viral for sure great comparison

[@kevinhamling1963]

G'day guys, Awesome video. The HQ certainly sounded the best. Thanks heaps for the walk around of the beetle. Maybe chuck that on the dyno next time I'm guessing 40kw. So thanks for sharing ✌️ Peace from Melbourne 3810. Scary

[@marcgrogan572]

My mate went from Holley to FI tech injection. Was a massive improvement when he changed!

[@brettfletcher165]

Make sure you don’t have any exhaust or vacuum leaks. Smoke and soap test the exhaust. Any leaks will cause issues. For timing control, there’s a cheap way to do it using an early commodore dizzy and the coil driver module.

[@alohabobbylaguna1702]

you might consider getting extra Power valves for the Holley carb maybe 10.5

[@philward6152]

Gents love the content. To get 108 out of a stock 253 is not to shameful. A fully sorted one with a lot of money spent get around 350kw natural so not too bad

[@CatFox2017]

It was great to see these older cars back. I think you should start a new project with a carburetted engine. Like put a 253 in the gemini maybe.

[@MixMasterMark]

That 253 DESERVES a two barrel stromberg and a flat blade screwdriver you pair of chachi's :D Love the video!

[@rockbiterhd]

Put a carby on the Q and play with jet sizes and check your plug colour after each pull to make sure it’s not leaning out enjoy

[@killawattautoelecandsound8683]

Glad it's not just me whos had a bit of trouble with these.

[@mitchsmith87]

You dont need to update it thru the screen if you have your laptop cable. (Which are on the shelf at a few different warehouses in aus) Just open the new software, click on the connection button and firmware update

[@1080LT]

Nerve wracking 😮

[@davidevans6045]

i have been toying with idea of putting a holley sniper on my rotary

[@sqwizzi]

How much rpm out of both? Great video boys

[@bigal878]

What RPM did you rev the Sandman to to get your 137KW? What size cam is in the 308? Thanks

[@leithalchin]

Scary love the 253 HQ There use to be a bloke in Sydney in the mid90's that built 253 and boy did that hj move and sounded like nothing I've heard before I remember talking to him and he said that the 253 was a better engine then 308 to build he use to build engines for bridge to bridge I'd love find him and buy 1 off him lol

[@steben01]

I am just debating now if i should get the efi for my fairlane with 351 clevo.

[@anthonywhelan8373]

Hq 115hp Sandman 158hp

[@AndrewMSS]

I've never liked the fact the sniper brains sit right on top of the engine right next to the dizzy and coil. The Holley Terminator is the same idea as the Sniper but the brain box can be mounted in the cabin away from any electronic interference

[@farkenfigjam8732]

It always freaks me out when I watch dyno videos where they don't have an air filter on.

[@Frontman936]

Big video this week. The channel is better for having a week without a video here and there

[@loueyhowell3796]

Looks scary!

[@haveric24]

could the holly sniper be too much efi or carbi for the 253?

[@adam3842]

Was this a great opportunity to film a video to update the sniper for the most recent way?

[@VLcuzzy]

I’d rather have a carb then a sniper haha. I feel like it’s part of the experience having difficulty starting it. If it just fired up and ran perfectly what’s the point would feel like a normal car hahaha

[@jamesmedina2062]

My carbed car(Holley 351C) started just like that. No choke tower either but started in freezing temps and hot temps. No issues. I think many issues can be traced to old fuel tanks and old carbs not gone through and refreshed.

[@VLcuzzy]

@@jamesmedina2062Yeah. In my comment though I was trying to say I like having that "character" of a carbed car. Makes it fun pulling it out the shed and spending a bit to crank it and let it warm up. Part of the fun

[@blackieforster7018]

I’m a carbi fan but my fuel injected VFSS goes hard lol

[@Bigcountry1099]

Multi port injection for the win.

[@bret2222]

Michael has to be the most edited person on KZbin 😂

[@JoeDirt-ok2hm]

I’d chuck an edelbrock avs2 500 carb on the 253 and rip all the junk off

[@seanb250]

Possibly running a small single plane manifold with the sniper may help.

[@anthonyfagg3778]

correct or at the very least an open spacer between the manifold and throttle body.

[@hydro5832]

Where is this dyno located?

[@timwhalan6417]

👍🏻👏🍺

[@AndrewMSS]

Firmware update 1.03?

[@toddaikman3259]

stack injection on the 253 haha?

[@Stolencamaro]

Find a good carby tuner and forget about efi.. its a hit@miss tends to reset itself and extrnal pumps are prone to failing

[@james22939]

If the sandman up for sale hit me up

[@andrewkirk8687]

Get frank to hook you guys up with a fitech He seems to be the wizard with them

[@shaunhinton3691]

Io exander ❤

[@bryaninwood683]

A tune up without touching the distributor ,if you don't know what your doing buy a commodore

[@petercunningham3469]

Carbs hands down easy

[@Ben-bj3ev]

Haltech it

[@markcraine-white4024]

The Sandman needs a second pipe lads..............................It just dont look right.

[@ldnwholesale8552]

EFI?? Electronic carby,, 1980s tech!! As has been found they do not work on dual plane intakes. And many will tell you they dont work very well on single plane either. Put the Q jet back on. The modern carb has adjustments in jetting, airs, idle mixture, acc pump shot and secondary opening. THEN it depends on wether you have the right size carb for the appliction. And no carb adapters,, that kill power. With modern fuels you really need better ignition. Personally a multispark is the best,, and you can trigger them with points the an electronic dissy is better. Though MSD or Crane I have had them fail. BUT far better sparks over far more crank degrees. In my case with electric choke Holley it starts like a efi vehicle should,, but often do not!! And is driveable cold. No 2 footing it to keep it running. This is valid for most leaded fuel engines. Factory HEI from a 80s engine is also quite good

[@darrenfrauenfelder5997]

After paying so much for that holley system you should not have to work out bugs and faulty parts, holley have been rooting around with the system for over 20 years and it still isn't right.

[@MikeJones-bj1cn]

ThongSlapper Garage 👍

[@hmayerv8]

Carby all the way ... been proven many times even in the States. Oh well!

[@craigmandall9420]

So what I'm getting from this is that the holley efi is garbage

[@1080sucks]

Sounds great