Cards We Used to Hate | EDHRECast 216

These cards once activated a lot of emotions, but we've cooled off on them since. Let's talk about some of the historically most electrically-received cards in EDH.
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[@rockandrolljew89]

Jeweled Lotus' impact has also been blunted by the fact it has been prohibitively expensive for most people pretty much since it was printed.

[@timbombadil4046]

And I've found no one has regarded it as fair when it enables a turn 1 Grand Arbiter.

[@seanmachlan3282]

@@timbombadil4046 Thanks. I've been struggling to figure out what could be the most impactful place to put the one that I pulled. :)

[@mikedenn3854]

It was kind of sad to not see them interact with Jeweled Lotus's cost in their discussion of how much it is played. Budget fundamentally impacts cards playable and play patterns of players so much more then most content creators talk about.

[@rylanchampion5972]

Just proxy it. Like the professor says"Command P" which is a rather old way to say it.

[@chaseladely2253]

nnnnbbnn

[@craig1287]

Jeweled Lotus is an $80 card, it doesn't show up in a lot of games because a lot of players can't afford it. If it were a $5 or less card, then I can nearly garrantee it would see so much more play. If it were $2 then it would see near Sol Ring levels of play. The advantage gained, the appeal to so many players of getting their Commander out on turn 1 or turn 2 is just so high that the price of the card is basically the only thing stopping them from running it more.

[@yugioh1870]

just like mana crypt

[@aleix2012]

At 0,70€ like a sol ring it would be in literally every 4cmc commander deck

[@Ubermunki3]

​@@aleix2012this isn't true. 1+3 color mana commanders don't need it that bad nor do 4c commanders with 4 color pips

[@poipoi9816]

thank you for putting up specifically Wilson, Refined Grizzly, haunted by his Criminal Past during the background chat

[@jacobbrown9894]

I tried to guess the big twist of the "I used to hate Red" story and actually hit the nail on the head because the focus on impulse is also what helped me finally make a MonoR deck I liked as someone who wasn't interested in making five trillion goblins or some big dragon swarm.

[@brianlinden3042]

Regarding Unwashedington: I believe they call that New Jersey.

[@pauldyson8098]

Primal Surge, for me, is THE example of thing that you do once, just to do it, then you take the deck apart (or find another wincon).

[@selkokieli843]

an option is to put like a couple of things that stop the flipping to add variance to it. makes things exciting again and you get to put some instants in the deck again!

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

I did it once int mtg online. It was fun. I don’t need to do it again.

[@itsmikeyouknow]

Dana's line about how being excited to go wild is more of an indicator than being scared of opponents doing it . . . I don't know if it's actually true by the numbers, but it *feels* totally correct.

[@lordofgarbageprogenitoroft4147]

I can't wait for saw in half to double my dockside treasures!

[@Razdasoldier]

@@lordofgarbageprogenitoroft4147 I can't wait to use titania's song after this set is released. ALL THE TREASURES... die on creation.

[@seanmachlan3282]

I too have a bias against red. I also don't understand it. Maybe it's the subpar removal.

[@andrewpeli9019]

Omnath Locus of Rage was a card that I never wanted to see at my table back in 2015 and 2016 when the card was first printed. He was going to dominate the game and it was just braindead easy to build that deck. But in 2020 or so, I began to realize that this commander no longer was dominating. Power creep had caught up to it and he's fine to play at casual tables now.

[@notveryoften]

angry jelly bean go brrrr

[@hughjass5494]

Even Derevi is somewhat 'casual balanced' now, so long as you're not playing stax.

[@pixelbomb97]

I think one card recently that had this sticker shock immediate bad reaction was bootlegger's stash. I honestly think that card is just an overcosted kruphix or horizon stone.

[@maybeisuckatlife]

Yeah it's not even good in 95% of decks

[@WUBRGer_King]

I thought more of the negative reaction was to green getting treasures more than the power. I don't think many folks thought that card was busted.

[@PrimeEnLightenedShadow]

@@WUBRGer_King Yes! THAT is what everyone is pissed off about! How the hell do people keep thinking that everyone is saying that it's overpowered?!

[@fastydave]

@@PrimeEnLightenedShadow because people literally were. Its early high price tag wasn't because people were mad green had a treasure generator outside of old gnaw..... 🤡 🤡 🤡

[@nik700]

"...dumb dragons and dumb goblins and lightning bolts..." And what more could you ever need?

[@g4greed502]

stimky countermagic and bounce spells and combos

[@waynefeller8824]

@@g4greed502 - Red has counter spells, removal instead of bounce spells, and plenty of combos. So you are saying it has everything you want?

[@sorchahannah288]

I was just thinking- “Man I’ve been listening to too many negative things on KZbin lately.” And then I saw this video- cards I USED to hate! There’s the positivity I was looking for 💕💕

[@andrewpeli9019]

The very first commander deck that I build was Jund, and Dana is right, red brought relatively little to commander back then. By far, the biggest benefit that having red brought back in the mid 2000s was the card "Insurrection". But the majority that jund deck was green with some black and a splash of red. I think that they did a really good job of flushing out that color to make it work in EDH. Red has shifted from the "rush down" color that worked very well in standard to a significantly more multi-faceted color.

[@silvermyr]

Perfect timing, cheers! Just as I start working

[@TenshoKai721]

Happy Pride to you Joey and all the EDHREC crew!!

[@trevorkroon2163]

14:36 As someone who built a Tergrid deck, she's honestly not that great. I think the main issue is nobody likes getting their stuff stolen. You aren't going to get powerful cards from your opponents, only their scraps. Instants and sorceries will go first, then ramp, then weak bodies, then extra support, before finally getting to the good stuff. You'll basically have to have people discard 4+ times to get anything good, and even then, you don't have the pieces to make it good. Say there's a Niv-Mizzet Parun, sure you got his Ophidian Eye, but that doesn't really do anything for you. Oh, stole the isochron scepter from the Kinnan value deck? Cool, I guess you can cast Doomblade every turn. As you struggle to get any sort of value out of the random garbage your opponents send your way, they're also plotting to kill you off because THEY want their stuff.

[@Turkin4tor]

I also have a Tergrid deck, only seen it really pop off once so far in like 5 games, and I wasn't even the one playing it. It always gets targeted and you're right, you never get the best pieces, just blockers and etbs mostly. I still like having the deck tho, there's always the threat of it having the dream hand and just going ham

[@danielscully449]

I actually have Blood Frenzy in my Karazikar deck. My first hipster points

[@edwardjrackley]

Really got into red this last two years. Agree with Dana impulse draw and making instinctive decisions has been really interesting 😊.

[@EpicGamerz01]

I play Jeweled Lotus in a few decks, but they’re my decks where my commander is 6+ cmc and it’s simply so I can play those commanders a little early the one time and have fun with lesser-played commanders

[@Mayoh-WTP]

Once at a LGS I countered a guy’s Jeweled Lotus with Annul…. He was pretty salty about it but I was pleased lol.

[@hermesthenerd]

Dana's comments this episode has been banger after banger after banger.

[@Jerhevon]

Agree on Expropriate being a bad design. Atop of the non-choices on voting, there's no When a player votes money, or other newer tech to enforce targeting restrictions. They cast it, you choose money, and even if your killer card is all shrouded up... nope, they just wander off with it. Not a fan of any of the council's Dilemma cards. All just groaners. The Will of the Council cards were pretty cool though.

[@Jerhevon]

And I agree with coming around on red. There was quite a while where I'd have decks that "included red" and basically had 3 red cards in a 3-color deck. Other colors provided resources, abilities, cards, and answers better. Those impulse draws, or even those Tormenting Voices and newer and newer iterations that take being copied so well. And now we're getting cards that let us play arbitrary discarded cards as well? As in play Tormenting Voice, discard our next spell/land, and play it? Amazing!

[@alexmacgregor5265]

Vadrik is one of my current favorite commanders, clockspinning is definitely an MVP in the deck, definitely should be in more than 70 decks.

[@collinbeal]

LMAO I've been in the same boat as Dana. I'm just now coming around to red with Boros and Gruul. I still won't build a mono-red deck, and Izzet and Rakdos evade comprehension, but Dana is absolutely right. Impulse draws and treasure synergies are what brought me around to red as a color. I'm a Dimir player at heart, and I've recently grown to love Selesnya. Red is rocky for me, but I'm starting to appreciate it. In two years' time, it'll still be my least favorite color, but perhaps the gap won't be as wide between it and green.

[@caasIsirhC]

Huge fan of how Dana takes swings.

[@emerson685]

"... if your favorite spice is flour." 🤣 Dana is amazing. I'm totally going to start saying that to people running good-stuff decks.

[@me12345635]

Dad jokes are always on point. Love it.

[@dustinchang5089]

Spoiler: Tasha’s not that into Tasha, and that’s okay.

[@ssjAnnaPaquin]

How do you look at opposition agent and see anything other than a slightly better aven mindcensor?

[@aklepatzky]

By being good at the game and understanding the implications of the cards

[@adriano7444]

The fact that nobody wants to play with people who have jeweled lotus in their decks doesn't make it harmless to the format. People hating a card out of their play-group shouldn't be used as an indicator that everything is fine.

[@towelociraptor]

Strong agree. Jeweled Lotus breaks games in the earliest stages - it's very unhealthy for the format

[@adriano7444]

@@raedien "Politics" is a bad argument, because if a game has become archenemy, then it is already broken. And when the entire format revolves around who becomes archenemy first, then the format breaks. Vault and Crypt adds. colorless mana, and ritual adds. 3 black. They're not even close to be as useful on turn-1-- tough they ARE strong cards, and banning them is not out of the table. Personally, i don't think having these cards separately is an issue; but when you put them in the same deck, then your "over-ramp" becomes too reliable. The format is supposed to be unpredictable.

[@TheMMC100]

I'm glad to hear Dana vent about the color red, because I used to be the same way with the color blue. I used to think that blue = counterspells, bounced permanents, extra turns, and overall non-fun magic. While not untrue, I've recently discovered that blue can lead to some interesting combinations in Dimir or Jeskai, so now I have some decks that have a solid blue presence.

[@plain6677]

29:10 yes Matt! I play Verdant Command in all my token decks and it’s actually one one the best card.

[@TheSandurz20]

I've built a few versions of vadrik, and I would like to challenge the challenge. In the buyback storm version I built, I actually cut clock spinning, because of one very important note. Once vadrik hits the board, it will almost always stay day, unless you intentionally pass while doing nothing. It's actually a huge downside, and part of why I don't build it that way anymore. It's way better to use temporary pump and go for single explosive turns rather than rely on vadrik sticking to the battlefield for multiple turn cycles accruing value over time. The only buyback spells are the draw for U with buyback 5 and haze of rage, because one is a combo piece and one is card advantage, that can sometimes draw your deck with storm kiln artist. The most reliable way to win in those decks in my experience, is using pump, rituals, and x damage spells like crackle with power or fall of the Titans to win on the spot.

[@TheAngelRaven]

Jeweled Lotus with Urza: Literally terrifying. Jeweled Lotus with any Commander with 2 or more colors: Eh.

[@nerd2death899]

When you guys mention bolas's citadel, I full stop was super confused that you have not seen it subscribe. I think there's not been a game night that I've been to where someone hasnt cast bolas's citadel.

[@jdogbemple1]

I used to hate to build mono-red decks because of how many time I’ve lost to mono red in other formats. But now, Neheb the Eternal and Rionya are some of my favorite decks.

[@shlack]

Tegrid is really not a fun experience.. opting out when the your friend only wants to play his new deck isnt an option sometimes.

[@mightyone3737]

I used to hate stuff that creates Chaos in games, being of the opinion that a deck can't consistently benefit from Chaos effects, and thus shouldn't be running them beyond fairly low power level (I viewed Chaos effects as very much 'fun' cards that weren't actually fun, and thus actively disliked them). Then, I tried to actually level up a bit and look at things differently, and I've learned that it's very possible to build a good 6-8 power level deck that uses Chaos effects to win games. The poster child for me is Thieves' Auction, a card I once detested on principle I now run as a win con, and it does indeed have the capacity to win games. I find it easier to set up wins with Auction than I do with Cultural Exchange, a card that can do similar work potentially, but Auction is usually much, much more potent. The further ahead someone is, the further they are inevitably going to fall, and I get to pick first, which is usually the key to making it work. Don't get me wrong, Exchange is an amazing card, but it's not as versatile or large of an effect as Auction. Auction however is also the more Chaotic effect of the two, usually turning the game on it's head, the key is that Auction just requires someone else to be ahead, which is not a big ask if you're running a deck that is designed to not have a very significant board presence. Related to finding an appreciation for Chaos in Magic is also finding value in Political cards, cards that I once would have disliked a great deal I tend to like. The Advocate cycle is a great example, you get to give a player back cards (which can include cards that will do things helpful for you!) and you get a usually very good ability, so these do not have a real downside very often, they're just two upsides on an undercosted body. I also love Flumph, and stuff like War Tax/War Cadence, things that can disrupt the normally optimal play patterns by doing (arguably) worse things to yet somehow win. War Tax for example can easily leave an opponent unable to swing (or only swing with 1 creature if they do nothing else), which is a much bigger effect than Propaganda, and it can be used to lock an Archenemy down period, something your two allies might appreciate. While you usually want to advance your position in a game, it can be a much better play to help someone else who is behind (while helping yourself!), but I'm still not sure about Secret Rendezvous (but I don't play any Mono W decks), but I'm starting to see a plurality of situations when it's a 3 mana Draw 3 with upside, in W of all colours, and then it starts to sounds like a better card than they usually give U. Politics are powerful, but you do need to learn how to use leverage (IE if you've got a War Tax out, you can choose not to use it vs someone who promises not to swing at you, or offering to use War Cadence if an opponent will attack who you want them to). Stuff like Goad is wildly better than people first thought, me included, even Agitator Ant is starting to look like an auto-include in mid power Red, which seems weird since it's mostly buffing your opponent's creatures. It helps that Red has good wipes, but if you pump stuff enough, your Red wipes won't work anymore, so it's also a potentially dangerous card. That brings me to my last point, I like cards that are skill testing to an extent, I like to build decks that if an average (or even above average) player had to play them with very little explanation, they'd probably do terribly, I like cards where you can screw things up. Politics and Chaos are both a bit like that, you can play those kinds of cards hilariously badly and be quickly convinced that they are just bad cards. I find I like actively cards now that are actively hard to use, it's one thing to win a game with a Craterhoof, but what if the deciding card ends up being some ultra-stinky cheese like a The Dark Banshee? It feels extra good when something that most people consider ungodly bad becomes a pretty strong card in any situation where someone has a low toughness creature that matters (their Commander for example haha). I think there is a Gatherer comment saying something like 'you can tell if a player is good if they think Orcish Artillery is a good card'. Hitting something for 2 is incredible repeatable value for only 3 mana, but it's the kind of card that many players would look at and just laugh at, even knowing how many 1 and 2 toughness creatures people ran back then. Anyways, a card doesn't have to be old, but I like finding ways to make chronically underplayed cards into gems. Knife to a gun fight? HA! Try bringing a banana to an atomic war, but you know who the real badass is when the banana ends up winning it all.

[@n8divers]

Last week I shredded my friends tergrid deck. Turns out the war of the spark tamiyo just shuts off the whole deck strategy. Plus song of the dryads is like a hard lock on tergrid herself :D

[@hanschristopherson8056]

My problem with expropriate is when you have the opponent who king makes and just gives them an extra turn

[@chaoticdrewtral]

Interesting tidbit about Expropriate, there is a reason for the person who casts it to choose money, because it says choose a permanent owned by that player, not controlled; so if a theft deck steals your combo piece you could Expropriate, choose money, and select your combo piece to gain control of it

[@gingrsnap1951]

I love bolas citadel in my prossh deck! Such a fun card

[@pyrowumbo]

I think the reason why no Vadrik decks run clockspinning is because in vadrik decks its hard to generate a lot of blue mana compared to red, as well as most of your win conditions are in Red

[@vioussy]

I used to hate prismatic bridge but then I played against it in paper with my friend playing it and it's pretty fine tbh

[@JustABrokenToy]

looking at the high-cmc counterspells as ramp and card draw makes them much more palatable. it helps if your deck is able to cast other high-cmc spells at instant speed as well so you aren't just passing a turn cycle holding up mana. always interesting to see the trends of cards and mechanics. I also love how WotC has used partner-esque mechanics that restrict the card pool, it's a shame the initial iteration is so open-ended.

[@Hexatomb]

I have a big, impactful reaction to every new Edhrec video

[@AuraXars]

Joey "THE WHOLE COLOR?!" Shultz

[@EvlEgle]

If Jinnie fay is out, and you use Verdant Command is cast, using the create token option, you will get the replacement effect and the replacement tokens wont enter tapped.

[@dominicsandoval2214]

Is this actually true? I been making tapped tokens in game for a long time

[@EvlEgle]

@@dominicsandoval2214 Thats how replacement effects work. But its up to the person that benefits from the to understand how replacement effects happen, and be able to explain it to your opponents. You can't forget your own triggers on purpose. But your opponents can let you forget them if they choose to, except at Competition REL where that shit will get walked back if someone notices it on replay or whatever.

[@dominicsandoval2214]

I only play casually, that does benefit me alot but I did actually think they came in tapped so that's really cool and helpful, thank you

[@EvlEgle]

@@dominicsandoval2214 It just has to do with how replacement effects work. Sometimes the replacement gets rid of negative effects for you. Similar to how replacement draws work with teferi's ageless insight. If you have that, and sylvan library up. It turns sylvan library into Draw Six cards every turn, pay no life, keep all 6. Because you are Drawing 1 card 3 times. But every time you draw a card, you instead draw 2, and forget that the rest of the trigger ever existed. Similar thing here. You create the token, and forget that the enters tapped ever existed.

[@colinramsey6578]

So. Whats with that rad Syr Konrad art with the gold head?

[@lokumo13]

Lol, I see a thumbnail of one of my old commanders(Now Yawgmoth), a spell I have in all my blue decks (4), and a green spell I have in my green go wide decks (2), and I click to hear what you guys' take on they are. Loving the content, keep it coming! Edit: 100% on the same boat as you Joey re: Overwhelming Stampede vs Triumph of the Hordes. One more mana and I can get very large and take you out, or for four mana I still take you out. It's not the infect that's taking the kill, but rather the large board state. Dana, my Tergrig was a lightning rod since day one and was only able to work out 5-6 games out of the 10-15 I've played it. One game it worked really well and it was my last one. I was happy I had built it though after cracking two foil showcase versions of her in a collector pack hehe. I am a lot more scared of Tergrid when she comes out in the 99 out of nowhere before a wheel. Ikoria free spells are hated a lot IMO. Sure the price point is a warranted point for that hate, though the space is pretty restricting considering you have to have your commander out. And as Dana said, it does not hit a creature. I also think that the Ikoria spells actually reward playing around your commander, rather than an eminence/oloro or a goodstuff-don't need the commander-out play styles. I do agree with Dana's stance on Rift and Expo. Rift at this point is kinda expected and is "good stuff" whereas Expo is not as expected and is somewhat "oh I don't have anything else going on so here is my win card". Yeah, Matt, JLotus was nowhere near as common as people thought it'd be, due to the number of multicolor decks out there. Dana, on red, word by word my experience with red. Impulse opened a new page instead of constant burn burn burn. Although have to say, the space in red I am looking at and enjoy testing online is abilities like the cards Jaxis, Feldon, Rionya, and Delina have. Hofri is similar, has white additionally, so can use stuff like Anointed Procession. Edit2: CTS Section, Joey, Searing Touch Seething Anger, and Haze of Rage are the only Buyback spells I run in my Vadrik deck. I do have an Orvar deck as well, and Clocksinning is great there, especially with stuff like Coveted Jewel. However other than increasing the storm count, I can't really see many other uses of Clockspinning in Vadrik. But still, a great suggestion nevertheless, especially if you have managed to toss a counter on Vadrik to buff him even more!

[@mibbzx1493]

Opposition agent is needed in all formats, since the only people who hate this card are combo players who try to win with 2-card wincons life thoracle/demonic consultation or something. Otherwise Its just a 3/2 regular ass creature who can at least buy you time until you get some interaction/removal and it tells me exactly who the combo player is as soon as it shows up since they’ll want it off of the table asap 🤣 so i know exactly who to kill first.

[@andrewsparkes6275]

33:09 Blood Frenzy will not interact with Kardur's second ability in any way, since the creature will die at end of turn, and Kardur only cares when a creature dies while it is attacking.

[@simoncss1]

On the disagreeing side that (as an example), “problematic” players who choose this “problematic” commander have done so with a lot of intentionality & there’s no exception. I’d actually built Tergrid to be Fear-themed (& Intimidate & Menace, “Fright” in card name, etc. Maybe an Order of Yawgmoth to link up theme & mechanic aspects) - practically no efficient sacrifice spells to lock opponents out. Yes…maybe I’m the exception & not the “rule”. Is actually quite disappointing to believe that any1 who gets hold of enriched Plutonium, will only intend to stuff it into a bomb… h-u-m-a-n-z-z-z

[@hozz1014]

I'll admit, I was one of the ones on the Doom Whisperer is too op train.

[@guyatanosavia8487]

It's funny, I had the same exact thing as Dana with hating on red for awhile. But for different reasons. To me, red as a color seemed to wholly disregard things like board-states, given that it was an entire color that is partially centralized around dealing direct damage to a creature or someone's face. Alternatively it had one-sided lockouts in things like Blood Moon or Blood Sun that just really irked me; 'ah yes, let me lock you out with one card because you just happened to not gave the right counter in your hands! And then I'll melt your face despite having way more value on the board than me! MEHEHEHE' Now? I'm fine with it. If red is really giving you trouble, the answer is almost always to run more interaction. Red doesn’t like being interacted with, which I think is fitting. Unless they're copying everything, but you can usually predict that in seeing someone playing Izzet colors Just as an aside, I think if ANY major/common gameplan is giving you trouble, the answer is more interaction. Seriously, don't just turn your deck into an engine if you're not putting it into a car. Engines are what get a car going but you still need wheels to get anywhere. And everyone enjoys driving in style so make sure your deck has some flair to it!

[@PawzBrownMTG]

You guys are just so cool 😎 funny and entertaining ty to all here

[@Izanur3]

I felt exactly like Dana about red, and now its my favorite color in MTG. I cant stand green though... :/

[@andrewsparkes6275]

Are the listener Challenge the Stats always from Discord now? I've sent a couple by email and I'm not sure they even get looked at. Don't get me wrong, they might be a little too niche and out there as picks, but...that's kinda the point of the segment no? Take a niche, unplayed, out-there card and explain how it can actually make a deck more interesting/better. I get Patreon funds the show and the Discord is linked to that, but it'd be nice for fans that can't afford it yet still support the pod via viewcount to get a chance to spread their knowledge too (I'd honestly be happy if ANY email submission was chosen, not just one of mine.)

[@beepboopkendo4206]

Don't waste your time. They always pay lipservice to "community" but only care about money. "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

[@Spike-hl2mw]

The funny thing about red is that what Dana says he hated about red is what I've come to love about it. I love my Purphoros deck because it's just so dumb and simple and it just wins games. It is exactly like the big stupid popular highschool football player who shoves nerds into lockers, and that's why I love it.

[@jefferymuter4659]

I think I just sold 20-30 cards simply because I think those cards are so good and or broken that the reaction at our tables have driven me into severe boredom just playing them. Ie, I had to take out all of the tutors in my Orvar deck. Or else Im just going to go get Coveted Jewel, take 15 minutes but almost certainly win if it isnt countered. My deck called 'The Ever-Changing Dane', super unplayed Esper commander. But almost all of the fun in that deck is about using a super roundabout way in those colors to make an aristocrats deck by stealing my opponents creatures and sacrificing them for hilarious value. Using Coffin Queen to recur an opponents creature, then exile it with Altaar of Bhaal to get back my Kokusho, then sac my kokusho with my commander and my commander becomes a Kokusho so my opponent has to let it hit or else the whole table will get drained for the second time? It's a fun deck. But no one would ever look at that deck and say 'wow this looks op'.

[@happybrain2674]

the last thing from dana i could completely understand. For me it was artifacts, esp cause it is easy one way to push all other colors to be far more effective. all the moxes, sol rings, manacrypts, signets, swords of animes and more on ramp side. but esp cruel its that aristocrats get far stronger if you replace a lot of pieces with artifacts. Dont get me wrong, today i appreciate artifacts, for being the glue needed to be able to do a little more than the nature of your colors let you do, but a long time this is the only option for some colors, color combination. And still without it some strategies also would crumble apart like voltron, aristocrats or just monowhite angel tribe cause it needs the colorless support ^^.

[@loorky2126]

I am no Tergrid fan for sure but for me Tergrid is not too bad to play against. I mean its a 5 mana commander that if it sticks you are probably loosing... like we dont have more of them(not saying its good but there are others of them that dont get that much hate) like Korvold, Kaalia, Niv-Mizzet, K'rrik, Winota, or Kinnan just at 2 just to name a small portion of them(discarding can be anoying and I wouldnt want to play against it all the time but same goes for korvold eg.)

[@kamakazi339]

My Xira Arien deck features bolas' citadel and it is filthy. Also, Hullbreacher was never an issue....

[@S0ilStudios]

YES!!! Blood Frenzy! Thank you!

[@chef2chiefchef2chief61]

What if partner was changed to only partners with something that shares a color with it. So they all can be 1,2, or 3 color builds.

[@leviangel97]

Interesting, but it really nerfs the mono colored partners

[@unimaginative_artist]

I hated partner at first and came around eventually and now have 2 one janky and the other one more or less a place holder but still!

[@PrimeShifter]

Dana I appreciate the fact that you play turgrid when you really don't want to and it gives that person a chance to play his deck that maybe nobody else will let him play pretty cool man

[@PrimeShifter]

Myself as a turgrid player I don't play it because I know how people don't like it. And I don't usually ask but if someone was to say Hey you wanna play that deck ....Dang right!

[@DoctorOctoconapus]

Joey your hair is incredible

[@welbenn]

My problem with red is not what the color does, but how red players play the cards and "plain" their resources. Specially on 1x1, in almost all the cases is: oh, that another player that is not a red player setted a card on board? Pay one red and bolt it! What was that Card again?

[@paulcurtis2380]

Dana I too hated the colour red! Never played it in any format because it just felt like cheating. Nothing to hard about bolt, fireball, blood lust and the such. I have been playing since 1994 and just now in the past year I have started playing red for the "downside" of cards to make it interesting.

[@troylambert1601]

edgar gets way more hate then he deserves. thats the entire take.

[@someguy1ification]

yay for replies after a year. I saw the suspend cards in MH2 and honestly saw them as unplayable. Telegraphing that you're bringing back your graveyard for two turns will jusr see it get exiled right before your spell comes off. The Warp World especially, there's no way I'll have a board when that finally comes off suspend. Most of the value from all of thoae spells is that the controller has sole discretion over "what state do I cast this into".

[@Haschlatte42]

Bolas Citadel and the divining top regulary win me games.

[@mibbzx1493]

Bolas citadel is a kill on sight card. Im not letting somebody play their whole deck. I keep a outland liberator or disenchant on deck in case i see these wild ass artifacts/enchantments like this 🤣

[@Bongus_Bubogus]

I really didn’t like the internet’s overreaction to Xander, the reasonings never made sense to me.

[@mateocossani8231]

Damn, im building a vadrik deck and just realized that clockspinning+vadrik+ storm-kiln artist= infinite counters and storm count

[@AlsonamedDennis]

I disagree about Jeweled Lotus. If it was around $15, I think it would dominate the format. Also, I despise Tergrid. I WOULD opt out of games with it, if I had the option. Do you just scoop before the game starts and make your friends play 3-player? Seems rude.

[@mibbzx1493]

This is crazy but i don’t mind tergrid if its kept off the field and i see it in your command zone and i see you got 4 mana available i keep removal ready cuz i gotta discard anyways, so i gotta use it 🤷🏾‍♂️ me personally i would never play tergrid as a commander because making ppl discard puts a huge target on your back so you cant really be mad if your trying to make everyone discard cards and top deck

[@selkokieli843]

Perhaps they would agree to only play one game of Tergrid each night?

[@vendaircharles1619]

Wouldn't it be rinseington?

[@adamwarehime6444]

For me it's any mono blue deck doesn't matter what's at the table I always take out the blue player before looking at other players that's the one thing I won't get over.

[@skyguytomas9615]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Jinnie Fay would replace verdant command's tapped tokens with untapped ones.

[@unlimitedsweettea2508]

I hated red for 5 years never played it, I’ve also come around…same same

[@csurrette2038]

If red is the "dumb Jock" then blue is the "Hall Monitor Snitch" that doesn't want anyone to have fun.

[@jamesg7520]

...Ok, my turn: "Extravaganza-fest-a-palooza!" Ok, your turn :D

[@chadanenberg6454]

My favourite partner is the kediss lizard and the kobold for 0

[@Naturessightsandsounds7040]

I remember trying to convince people that jeweled lotus was a good card...alot of people thought it was just bad.

[@chaostrife44]

Expropriate has an edge case where the caster may vote MONEY. Expropriate says choose a permanent OWNED by the voter. It can steal back a stolen commander, for example.

[@geoffwilliams6072]

Berserk and bloodfr3nzy would be good in ziatora

[@K_Pank1028]

Im with Dana, any deck that i had that ran red, ran it as an after thought. Rielle increased my attraction to red from least fav. Built torbran but scrapped it as soon as Rionya came out. I cant get over how explosive and crazy red feels playing something like her! Joy

[@maybeisuckatlife]

The Cultivator Colossus hype really had me confused that card is so obviously terrible...

[@notveryoften]

combos with abundance to get every land in your deck into play tapped, so now you have a beefy 30something p/t trampler and all the mana in the world for when you untap. which, is niche and situational, but still great if you can pull it off. not to mention the fact that landfall decks can abuse that soooo easily. it's far from terrible, just not necessarily the greatest choice in anything other than a lands-matter deck. get better about evaluating cards :)

[@maybeisuckatlife]

@@notveryoften yeah no. It's not even close to good, even in lands matter decks. A seven drop french vanilla that wants you to have multiple lands still in your hand when you cast it? Yeah amazing 👏. Oh it combos with a 4 drop do nothing enchantment that you wouldn't run otherwise? Wow sweet. You don't even get the basics and you're trying to come at me lol.

[@nickgizzi5891]

“Flamplers” 🤣

[@ellesimmons730]

I had a proclivity against blue because i was told it was really hard and shouldnt play it while i was learning and then I hated it cause i thought it was prohibitively hard. Now I play mostly blue. Dont trust everyone who teaches you lol

[@mikaeljordan]

Casting bloodfrenzy on the zada an opponent owns 8)

[@viciousveras1648]

I couldn't disagree more about their views about Jeweled Lotus. PRICE is the ONLY thing that's holding back the card and the community didn't overreact "because they saw lotus in the name" -.-

[@nickleewright]

I actually have a few decks that are 4 color partner and all of them have distinct goals. I have a no red deck that is almost all cantrips (only exceptions are board wipes and a couple cards with retrace) I have a deck that has no white and the theme is "4 color math"... basically everything is a x/x so people have to constantly ask me how big any given creature is. I also have a deck called "Inspired Drivers" that has no green and is centered around the Inspired mechanic and using vehicles to tap said creatures. The final 4 color deck I used parners as the commanders has no blue and is my one deck I own that is all about the combos. I packed it full of ridiculous creature based combos. I also put a ton of tutors but not much card draw (on purpose to limit its power). As a result I named it "Glass Cannon". (If you were wondering about my no black commander, I simply used K and T)

[@Haschlatte42]

100% agree on expropiate. If someone pulls that out i scoop. Even if iam winning. Just ruins the fun. Extra turns in general if they dont win u the game right then and there, are just rude

[@maybeisuckatlife]

I'm sorry but isn't a turn 1 Mirri pretty good? I don't understand saying Jeweled Lotus isn't good in every deck. Card is still dumb.

[@GrahamFoxDelta]

Expropriate says own not control, so there is actually a reason to vote money as the caster to regain control of your permanent someone has stolen.

[@RadDuck7]

Suspend cards are broken af in Codie decks

[@MadMage86]

I wish you guys would stop singing the praises of 'rule 0 conversations'; they don't work and the rule is crap. It is nothing more than a codified 'house rule' to exempt the rules committee from having to actually make rules that serve the section of the community that needs a level playing field established by the rules. Ironically, the purported 'benefactors' of this rule - private groups or those with a strong social contract - didn't need a codified house rule to tell them they could make variations to the existing rules.

[@PrimeEnLightenedShadow]

*SO. MUCH. THIS!!!*

[@fastydave]

This format isn't for you then. 🤡🤡

[@plain6677]

Yeah I stop playing this format until a clear rule is set. The rule 0 only works for influencers.

[@dialupsyndrome1910]

Hating the colour red? Okay bluemer

[@HomeCookinMTG]

What I will say about nyxbloom ancient is that when the card comes down the person who plays it usually wins the game. Granted it's seven mana and your seven mana spells probably should do that, but the card is absurdly powerful. I frequently see it cast with a gaea's cradle still left open which subsequently taps for 90 plus mana. Edit:. Also I think Matt's logic that because players would want to opt of games against it means it's problem would mean that counter spells, mill, and a slew of other things are problematic, and I don't think that's the case.

[@exquisitetoast3859]

Obviously this doesn't work thematically but I wish they just errated tergrid to be a non-legendary creature instead or brought back banned as commander