Best Hot Hatch? Ford Vs Renault Vs MINI - Carfection

[@Rade363]

I fell in love with MINI JCW since I watched this particular video several years ago and finally got my own one a couple of months ago. Thank you, Carfection :)

[@Whiponized]

Congrats baaby boi? Whow is it now?

[@brennanderek3104]

You all prolly dont care but does anybody know of a way to get back into an Instagram account..? I was dumb forgot the login password. I love any assistance you can offer me.

[@leonelquinn9106]

@Brennan Derek Instablaster =)

[@niklasnevesrensen5679]

Really good video! A bit of Top Gear without it becoming too awkward/wannabe. Just 2 blokes who likes cars and are able to talk about them without getting crazy boring or too technical. And last but not least, what a cool line up of cars!

[@robz1471]

Niklas Neve Sørensen yes but he called it a "stick shift"...

[@CampbellZeroOne]

I tried all of these and was more than happy to pay the extra for the Mini JCW! It oozes quality and makes me smile every time that I get into it. I recently paid Mountune money for a Superchips ECU remap which has given it a huge leap in performance and surprised quite a few people who thought that it was 'just a Mini'! I also opted for the auto box which I had absolutely no intention of trying, liking or buying because real drivers don't need them... Dunno if I'll ever go back now!

[@jacobreising817]

You described it perfectly, no buttons. Eco mode is your right foot, Sport mode is your right foot. That is the kind of car I love daily driving.

[@hartsickdisciple]

The ST twins are still the best hot hatches. They're the most fun to drive, and yet you can live with them every day. Ford captured lightning in a bottle with those cars.

[@hartsickdisciple]

***** The Focus ST has a better interior. I've owned 2 of them. They don't have top of the line quality, but they're not bad. Good for the price. It's not a rattle box.

[@ThexMJT]

Don't mind the interior of the ST think its a nice place to sit and be in

[@nigo1787]

"you can live with them every day" you can, but you have to make compromises. I'm OK with the interior, but not OK with the ride. The Clio is at least good at one point : it's a LOT more comfortable, with its hydraulic suspension bushes thingy, without compromising the handling

[@inkno701]

I'll bet if the Mini was a manual transmission it would have been the most fun. You guys should do a test of manual vs automatic transmissions, with both manual and auto versions of like an inexpensive car and both versions of a faster higher end car. And see whether the cheaper car with a manual is more fun then the high end car with an auto.

[@thelegendthatismatt]

Really loved this. Multiple presenters gave it a top gear feel which is never a bad thing!

[@bbkangs]

I love my 2015 6 speed manual MINI Cooper S 🇬🇧

[@JuanCostanzo]

I've bought a 208 gti a month ago and I have to say that little hot hatches are super fun.

[@giovanniares1895]

I love the way british people can keep calm even before a crash (almost), and then smile too, hahaha great. ^_^

[@Blackgriffonphoenixg]

This was as fun to watch as a Top Gear segment, I'm not kidding.

[@Tiger5672]

+LIMIT CYCLE I agree! It was filmed really well and the guy was fun to listen to :)

[@AndresMilioto]

I was looking for a comment like yours after I heard him say "you brought a Renault Clio". It was hearing Clarkson pissed off at Hammond's mustang, or May pissed of at Clarkson's alfa...

[@matgee8892]

I still maintain that you cannot have a hot hatch with an automatic gearbox.

[@kma198199]

k

[@ShadowFalcon]

Agreed. The Clio R.S. Sold its soul (fun) to the devil (all out performance). Fiesta for me.

[@ShadowFalcon]

***** Not really. The 991 GT3 RS, is in an entirely different league from your normal hot hatch. It's a track-toy, not an everyday fun-mobile. Track-toys, and supercar (and hypercars) are allowed to have "race" gearboxes (because, in my mind, a DSG or Sequential isn't an automatic).

[@dino130395]

+Mat Guest True. I wouldn't have it in any car for that matter. A Dual-Clutch on the other hand is okay

[@jimmychanga4130]

+sax0joe the difference between the 911 and the Clio is the power. when these hot hatches have under 300 whp it makes it so much more involving using a stick. I get the paddles in a 911 although I would still rather have a stick lol. IMO isn't the whole point of owning a hot hatch to enjoy it?

[@philip771]

What an absolutely brilliant video!!! Gotta love Alex - "you are the sport button". I'm thinking of buying a used ST now and his summary has really helped me get over its shortcomings (interior, looks). Just so brilliantly filmed and compared, well done Carfection.

[@vincentadema]

Gut wise I'd choose the MINI JCV, but the arguments you both make for the Fiesta ST are solid. Pleasure to watch.

[@Mugtree]

I have a 2003 Cooper S. Had it from new and love it. Wish I could afford the JCW. Until I can I'll keep loving my Mini

[@sharinganwarrior2017]

Had my fist st a week running around 230bhp and yet to not smile when u give it some amazing machine and handles so well

[@carswithluke]

I just love a Hot Hatch

[@nr92cp6]

Interesting your thoughts on the looks. I think the FiST looks by far and away the best. The Renault has little style to the design, while the Mini looks bloated with a bunch of funny-shaped ducts.

[@Mathis092]

he's right, i would buy the fiesta st and the money i saved i would get some mountune upgrades and not void the warranty and have an awesome car

[@piero914]

Yaaaay longer vids! I still won't forgive you for the name change, but I enjoyed this video. Thumbs up.

[@Xyzabc998]

Small, fast Fiascos have always been great. Avis used to rent out the old Fiasco S with the 1.6 Zetec. Just so much fun like the Pug GTi's. Mini's always seem to contrived not to mention big, especially the new ones. The MK I with the supercharger would be tempting though. Another great review.

[@nopenope250]

Non comparable cars. Ford ST is all, fast, beautiful, tunable, reliable, practical, economical.... While other two are missing one or more above mentioned things... Ford simply made best car and future legend.

[@edward92128]

Awesome video guys. Really like where this channel is going.

[@malcwells9147]

Great review guys.I'll be honest. I was a bit sceptical about flappy paddles in the JCW, but they're actually a lot of fun. Makes great noises when you downshift. Just can't wait till Wednesday when mine gets the new Pro Exhaust for the JCW with the controllable valve for a bit more noise and a few more horses, a smattering of carbon thrown around it and a few other bits.You don't buy a MINI for practical or economic reasons though. It's all about having a laugh, and that's exactly what this car is.

[@Autophorie]

Are you comparing the new Focus RS to its rivals any time soon? Looking forward to that :)

[@iansoderlund3539]

I would pay to have Renault in the U.S.

[@marvinmaro1633]

Great test guys.... But I missed one care in the test Peugeot 208GTI 30th hope that you test the car also, and the fiesta ST200..

[@mwuuuu]

Finally, a proper review/comparison vid! Great to watch, bit of top gear in there :)

[@dalomusic5509]

Got a JCW F56 few days ago. Glad i spent the extra money. I frkn love it!

[@RandomVideosFirst]

10:40 "Because the wheels are at each corner of the car" opposed to being in the middle of the car I guess lmao lol

[@jupitersamjk]

Great review Zcar, more of this please!

[@RussNicholls]

Fiesta and with the saved £5k take it to Mountune :)

[@JSPE13]

Great video, i reckon a manual mini would have been the winner, depending on weather the interior justifies the extra price, which in my opinion it does

[@belgianbushrc7934]

I used to hate on automatic transmissions, saying I would only have one if I had no choice. Having driven the Clio Rs 220 trophy 2017, I retract my statement, and am picking one up on monday!

[@PaulHojda]

The Clio is by far the best looking of the three. Renault just need to listen and give it a bloody manual gearbox. Then it will be perfect

[@dahorn100011]

+Paul Hojda Exactly, I don't care if its slower, its just the feel and sensation of using a well sorted clutch and gearbox.

[@PaulHojda]

Admiral_Awesome Well, the Clio doesn't have a well sorted double clutch, it's a terrible double clutch. They should at least give people the option to chose between a manual or automatic, like most manufacturers do

[@PaulHojda]

Janner Jan I have driven cars with VW's DSG, and they were lovely. I have also driven a Mégane EDC, which has pretty much the same gearbox as the Clio RS, and it was nowhere near as good as the DSG. It was slow and always seemed to be stuck in the wrong gear at the wrong time, and shunted at low speeds. A lot of it has to do with the fact that the Renault gearbox uses a dry clutch, while the DSG is a wet multi-plate clutch

[@YZJB]

+Paul Hojda VW actually have three main DSGs: the DQ200 7-speed dry-clutch, DQ250 6-speed wet-clutch and DQ500 7-speed wet-clutch. Cars such as the Polo, low-powered Golfs, petrol Passats etc. use DQ200 while the Golf GTI and 2.0L diesels use the DQ250. DQ500 is used in Tiguan, Multivan, Caravelle etc.

[@TheBioSkunk]

+Paul Hojda The Megane's gearbox is not the same. If you did not try the Clio trophy's gearbox then you just don't know. It is very-very quick and responsive. What you are saying has nothing to do with the fact it is a dry clutch. Dry clutch gearboxes are even quicker than the wet ones. This renewed gearbox is from Getrag, not from Renault and it is brilliant!

[@w-james9277]

No hot hatch should EVER have an automatic gearbox imo

[@cosminpopa8630]

+Leopard95 I agree with you but the GTI double clutch is pretty damn good.

[@w-james9277]

Cosmin Popa Im sure it is but imo, hot hatches are about making the car fun and engaging to drive aka, taking a boring car and making it interesting. A double clutch doesn't do that. I understand why supercars use duel clutches but not a 2 litre hatchback.

[@chung729chung]

Not everyone live in areas that hv no traffic and no mountains.

[@Kai_ST200]

@@chung729chung living in Aachen, a quite old city, where the streets are really narrow, much traffic due big car competences here and many many cyclists from the big university RWTH. Also there are not many big hills in Aachen itself, but for sure Aachen is a city where it goes up and down all the time and has many small hills. Also the Eifel (where the Nürburgring is) is right next to Aachen, one of Germany's biggest mountains. I do not need any automatic or double clutch 😉

[@matts1083]

A hothatch is whatever the manufacturers want it to be. I'm pretty sure my automatic could kick most manuals buts. And I have more fun seeing them in my rear view mirror than you have using more components to gain less rewards. Pointless :)

[@alpinosnipes]

Really felt like I was watching top gear :) great video!!

[@ExoNavi]

I love my ST. It's a steal at the price point

[@motorrecon200]

I have a Mountune ST with the Cat Back exhaust and the Mountune Suspension and it makes the best car by far even better well worth the extra money.

[@x58evo2puma7]

What horse power is your fiesta st I have one mine is 215 hp ford has done a good job on this new Firsta better then the old fiesta

[@motorrecon200]

wayne allan its 215 with the Moutune MP215 kit on :). They have indeed its hands down the best car I've driven specially on country roads it just grips and flays along

[@AzimSF]

Was that sheep brake noise added in or was it pure natural delicious braking?

[@MidhunCM]

+Carfection What vehicle is used for the camera crew?

[@d0718]

+Midhun C. Manohar Focus ST diesel

[@TDarKKiller]

+Midhun C. Manohar the defender... They've made a review of it

[@pedaorm]

+Yehonatan Lindell not anymore, its a focus now.

[@blvk_sky]

All 3 are awesome, but I'd take the FiST.

[@ThexMJT]

ST is crazy fun, love mine

[@lancevanamburg3924]

I own a mini jcw. Proud as hell to say that. It’s so fun to drive.

[@Afgelope1]

Almost couldn´t agree more, Fiesta ST is just perfect fun, for anyone at any Age.

[@chrismilly]

Excellent video really enjoyed watching !

[@trevorbarrett5507]

I own a 2017 Fiesta ST with a Stratified Stage 2 tune with the accompanying modifications. Looking to go Stage 3 when my decatted downpipe arrives. It's an absolute joy to drive! But I have to say, that JCW sounds amazing!

[@lgliam]

Whats the song playing during the piece on the ST? It's so catchy

[@kma198199]

the shitz by diarrhea tribe.

[@kma198199]

lgliam hopefully millions. No cunts, no babies.

[@emrico]

like the new format guys. a last gen 200 cup clio will with recaros will do me fine, a bit too hardcore for everyday but then it's very cheap in the used market...

[@77GR1982]

Fiesta ST: The New KING Of The Hill...

[@93455Driver]

How much do GT86's start in the UK?

[@newamsterdanm]

Jooou jooou, martes. What is the Price Tag🔖. How can I get in the USA?

[@stephane_edouard]

What was wrong with the XCar name ??

[@Gasinduced]

+Spike Club There would have been a some kind of licensing or network issue.

[@Dutchforces1]

Are you guys planning on moving to 60fps soon? It's the only thing lacking about the great video quality.

[@jameslowther5227]

I bought my ST-2 Fiesta with the Mountune MP215 upgrade upon collection. Not that I have driven a std ST, I have to say the smile factor is immense. I have ordered the new Focus RS to replace my much loved Fiesta ST.

[@SDMTB14]

Im not saying the Mini is better but giving the prize to the Fiesta and the reason being just the automatic transmission of the Mini is just stupid. You can buy it with a proper gearbox and a bit cheaper.

[@Mantenner]

A bit cheaper? Yes. Cheaper than the highest trim FiST? Still no. The cost was the main point, not the auto transmission.

[@peterdurnell3325]

@@Mantenner Cooper S is arguably the direct rival to the ST though, not the JCW...

[@higurro]

8:50 is that a blanked out vent I see? Let me guess, it wasn't needed after they got rid of the supercharger but everyone was used to it by then?

[@copperandradium]

Why is there no GTI?

[@daveyboiyeah]

What, 208 GTI? The 208 is probably the best all rounder in the UK at least as a hot hatch

[@matts1083]

No he means the real GTI. Volkswagen.

[@YounesLayachi]

@@daveyboiyeah 😂 what are you smoking

[@nansmp1112]

205 gti > golf gti

[@xOMastaPOx]

Could you guys do a video on the new Polo Gti

[@Riklinkable]

My Fiesta ST has a sport button! I am in Aus but sure the UK ones do too?

[@Cain353]

No, EU version has a ESC button. Same function though. Press it to turn on sport mode, hold it down to turn off all assists.

[@Riklinkable]

Yeah cool same same then. Cheers

[@ScottZ370]

Still would take the last generation Clio RS 197

[@Gasinduced]

+S Miller The 197 is good but the Clio III 200 fills the gaps of the 197.

[@ScottZ370]

Gasinduced​ I always forget the differentiation between them, your right the 200 is the one to get

[@Gasinduced]

+S Miller The Angel & Demon/Raider (Matte finish paint) and the 20th Anniversary (White or Yellow with the black roof) are the ones to get.

[@neilmc5704]

excellent video guys, keep up the amazing standards!! :)

[@roguedogx]

completely in agreement on the analysis, and I would totally have the ford.

[@Yathuprem]

4:23 Looks exactly like Topgear !! When they do the challenges in their episodes, Miss them Cant wait for the amazon show

[@slywind30]

You guys always forget the Ibiza Cupra!, own a 1.4 tsi Cupra 6j pre facelift! It outruns the st any day, dsg7 box is superb and the power delivery is incredible! The limited slip diff works superb and can throw it into any corner!, they've changed to the 1.8 turbo now but still heard the 1.4 tsi is much more fun even with its known problems! Give it a chance sometime!

[@Nakke144]

I don't get what they have done with the new Mini. The first new Mini looked really good, this looks like a small SUV that has been shrunk in the wash. Fiesta ST, yes please.

[@MegaGasek]

You don't have to go to the most expensive one, to get the feel and fun of a Mini. The Cooper S is good enough and has the great interior the other 2 cars can't touch and it handles corners really well, plus it is fun to drive.

[@johnjackson12]

How big is the mini now? not really living up to its name lol, Kudos for mentioning the 182 clio, i had one years ago and they are amazing fun

[@joerandall5072]

What about the polo GTI?

[@atc37]

Anyone else love how the "Mini" looks like it's the biggest of the three cars?

[@rfouR_4]

I too had a Supercharged Mini Cooper S. Mini is far too bloated now so I went with the Fiesta ST too.

[@bingoberra18]

How about just buying the Clio 182 and call it a day :)

[@russellwoodhouse1102]

^^^^^^^^^^ this guy has the right idea!

[@bingoberra18]

***** Thats really what I wanna do, im driving around in a phase 3 clio 1.2, 75hp...

[@russellwoodhouse1102]

Yeah and the repair bills. I drive an R27 as a daily and it costs a bomb when summut gives up on it and it's very hard to get our child in and out of the back.

[@jmcphee7]

I had the R27 and I can back you up there. The recaros were impossible and the ride was bone shatteringly hard. I swapped it for the 200 and that was even harder lol

[@cameronmilne3590]

bingoberra18 because I don't want to die.

[@lk57ejn]

Where was this filmed ?

[@cameronmilne3590]

Hello constable

[@richarddutchholland4780]

It's in South Wales...

[@KevinpDouglas]

Having test drove many hatches end of last year. I plumped for a fiesta st-3 in blue. It really is a great car. I also bought it on Black Friday securing £3k off list. My with change, I ordered the Mountune upgrade to 215 bhp for £500. Making this fast ford probably the fastest Bargain out there and be interested to see how it performs against its rivals figures now!!!

[@richardhurr31]

I'm about to buy one £4200 off list 😄

[@KevinpDouglas]

+Richard Hurr that's a great deal.

[@richardhurr31]

+Kevin Douglas yeah sure is! And think 2016 is the last year of the MK 7 ST? So I'd be crazy not to.

[@GT-gt4bf]

Great video. Agree 100% that the Ford is the best.

[@brianmogle1121]

Seriously? So, the only reason he likes the Ford better is because it is cheaper.... I thought this was about what car is most fun to drive??? Hands down it's the Mini. Way better materials and quality than the Ford and it will last a lot longer.

[@WhitewalkerII]

Next time add the Peugeot 208 Gti to the comparison

[@MrBillyboyroge]

Why?! The Fiesta ST has already won the battle. That's why in this video they are comparing a 3 year old car against the latest 2 'new' hot hatches

[@WhitewalkerII]

MrBillyboyroge Because the 208 is one of the best in its class and its engine is similar to the one of the previous Mini Cooper S/JCW.

[@MrBillyboyroge]

+WhitewalkerII as you say, the 208 is 'one' of the best in it's class The ST is 'the' best in the class the 208 is in... No need to compare it again

[@WhitewalkerII]

MrBillyboyroge As long as the cars are not compared you can't tell the Fiesta is the best. It's the best of the cars in the video. The 208 has been updated since its launch.

[@MrBillyboyroge]

+WhitewalkerII well maybe that comparison can be made when ford release the limited edition Fiesta ST200 (in uk June 2016)

[@SuperJoyful10]

I'd rather have my car, the clio 172 cup!

[@whitewalker9622]

Wich is the best version of the hot hatches basic siblings?

[@sheep4life97]

Brilliant review!

[@Lo10Wi]

I would have really liked to also see the Seat Ibiza Cupra in this comparison and hear your opinion about it. I feel like the Seat is always forgotten... Is that because it cannot compare to the high levels of the competitors?

[@skylineXpert]

you forgot the 208 gti peugeotsport

[@jameslloydcole8783]

Have you driven a GTi, they're super bland...

[@dgbservices6049]

James Cole no they’re not mate.

[@JULIANDORMER1963]

Do the test again with mountune 230 please

[@savke1982]

Fiesta just needs a little wider wheel arches

[@TheDustyaman]

I know the veloster is a black sheep of the hot hatchbacks. But dam its still fun. and for a 500 dollar tune. its 260 to the wheels is plenty.

[@TheDustyaman]

+Carfection Wow didnt know that. Thank you for letting me know. Looks like they will have a 2017 model here also

[@Luke121201]

awesome video... Next up... Super Hot Hatches please 🤘😜🤘

[@j.a.g.8689]

The Gti would beat all of them, but the JCW should have won.

[@baileybonce7267]

I test drove a polo gti before I bought my 2017 fiesta ST, and in every single way the fiesta was better, even overall the interior was because of the polo's dreadful seats

[@dgbservices6049]

kirky 951 I think J.A.G was referring to the 208 GTi by PS 🤷‍♂️

[@SeandeDios]

Top Gear starts at 4:22 and I ain't complaining.

[@bfcricky]

Add the £599 Ford approved Mountune upgrade and the Fiesta will trounce both of them.

[@SnakeyUk08]

+BFC Ricky My brother has that fitted makes the engine sound a bit throatier too

[@ksedgwick5173]

BFC Ricky Or stage 3 Revo and take it to 300bhp

[@elliotalderson6239]

BFC Ricky You mean the MT215 kit which only ups the power to 212bhp, you would need the £1,995 MR230 kit to keep up lol. Stage 3 ha. Just remap the mini and boom you've got 300bhp....

[@alexandrefernandes9233]

You can use the stick instead of the paddles. You only don't have the clutch pedal. But well... it is more engaging the manual shift, but it also take you of the wheel... I think it is a matter of likes!

[@scottishfanta]

This was fantastic!!!

[@meganjay30]

i have heard from other videos that the fiesta st shades the JCW's chassis....

[@van_der_lindeDA]

The only man that can give good advice on a car is Chris Harris...and all the clio gearbox haters have no clue how amazing it actualy is to drive

[@Cain353]

Well Chris Harris said they're both brilliant for different reasons. The Fiesta has a wonderful gearbox and feels more lively. The Clio has the better chassis. He couldn't name one over the other as the clear winner unless he did a comparison, which he never did. All in all it comes down to preference, you want a manual? Fiesta ST or 208 GTI. Auto? Clio RS.

[@benanderson89]

+Dale Anthony van der Linde -- I've driven the clio 200 with the DCT and its slow to respond, gets easily confused and just feels lethargic. Its not a nice gearbox at all.

[@kianabrishami5146]

You guys should do a film on the Lamborghini LP750-4 Aventador Super Veloce

[@Polomissen]

Can't wait for the Ford Fiesta ST200 😎

[@truestar1995]

yay finally... but I still haven't forgiven y'all for changing your name from XCAR

[@andrewbateson7795]

i have an st2 with the mountune and it's the most fun I've had with any car. so much fun for the money. but nearly a year later I'm craving comfort and relaxation haha i still fear for my life everytime i decide to give it some though and that feeling is irreplaceable for such a cheap price

[@dedelabinouze5110]

Please for the love of god Renault give us the Alpine A120 with a stick shift ! Don't mess up like you did with the Clio 220 !

[@FakeSTi555]

carrément, mais sur la vidéo d'introduction j'ai vu une boite auto ...

[@dedelabinouze5110]

eX Luucky Je sais je me suis fait le remarque aussi, c'est pour ça que je m'inquiète..

[@FakeSTi555]

+Dédé LABINOUZE y'a plus qu'à croiser les doigts, au moins en option quoi ..

[@FakeSTi555]

+Dédé LABINOUZE y'a plus qu'à croiser les doigts, au moins en option quoi ..

[@marram101]

+Dédé LABINOUZE Renault will fuck it up, don't worry. They have managed to do something stupid to every decent car they produced for the last decade.

[@ThomasHarrisonLord]

Would have been nice to see the Peugeot Sport 208 GTI in this comparison too :)

Enjoyed watching this

[@ponygt6629]

Great to see the Fiesta still remains the hot hatch king of the

[@jannerjan8553]

+Ponygt 662 your Hot Hatch king is the slowest :D Try to hold its crown strong if you are beaten by the Clio in corners, in straight line and basically everywhere. But yeah, it is the king :D :D

[@ponygt6629]

Janner Jan Never under estimate man, see its more than enough fast, probably just 0.2-.1 s slower than Clio, Mini JCW, but that wont even move a hair f the ST, The ST is superb in makimg one a proffesional driver, other cars flatter U, Fiesta ST teaches U to drive, I find that the best trait ever on a car, see U can spin a ST if U r too much into it, it will do a pooppy over steer, and undet steers as well, but while doing so, it manages to give the driver options and time to think and gives us perfect control, not so with the Clio nor the Mini

[@TheBioSkunk]

+Ponygt 662 It is actually a bit more than 0.1-0.2 :) Accoring to the tests the Fiesta ST does the 0-100 (62) in 7.2, the Clio trophy does the same in 6.5. And from 0 to 200 there is a gap of more than 5 seconds ;) Just to make it clear. That is a huge gap! And similar results around tracks. It is a HUGE performance difference between these 2 cars. And yes, in the straight line the Mini JCW is even faster, but around the track and so on B roads the Clio trophy is the real king. It beets easily the Mini JCW and the old JCW GP as well, and destroys the Fiesta ST. So why do you underestimate that car? Oh, and about handling :) especially there you shoudn't comment if you never have driven the Clio Trophy. Its handling is just wonderful. Perfect! So never underestimate man, never! Especially not if you don't know enough about the other one ;)

[@ponygt6629]

TheBioSkunk Well again U ve under estimated the Fiesta ST agaain, Remember the auto express track battle between Fiesta ST,Clio RS, and Peugeot 208 GTI, The Fiesta ST despite having 0-100 in 7.5 was fastest around loop,.and I ve driven Clio RS b4 picking the ST, the Clio RS is fat and easily succumbs to under steer, the ST fights it with rotation, NO the Clio dosent have that magic, the ST is almost like a fwd car that has some rwd chara...no Clio dosent have it, Then there s the steering, The Clio has a faster rack but lacks progression, its more precise but tye feel is an issue,ST communicates better and has more progressive feel, Then the srock tires of Clio r better, I changed em and boy the ST s too damn awsome with better rubber, Clio has another chara that I hated, the unwanted up shifts, it shifts up on its own even in manual mode,and dont even talk about down shifts the DSG is light years better than Renaults shitty Dual clutch I will agree that Clio has better top end and mid range torque,but ST nails the low end and mid range, i personally think low mid range is what hot hatxhes need most Then the price sets the deal, The ST is unmistakably king, I think top gear too made a track battle between ST and Clio and there too the ST won,

[@TheBioSkunk]

+Ponygt 662 But is it clear for you that the car you have driven (Clio 4 RS) is not the same we are talking about?????? Is it clear?? The Clio trophy is by miles better and quicker than the normal Clio 4 RS Cup. Is it clear for you? Do you know that what you are saying is not true for the Trophy? For example it has a chassis set up which is much more willing to oversteer than in the normal one. there is no understeer at all in the Trophy. And the Fiesta ST has the same rubber the Renault was using for the Nordschleife record run on the Megane RS 265 Trophy. Did you know that?? And the gearchanges are super fast know, also the dowshifts. Not comparable with the normal CLIo RS's gearbox. The whole car is a different kind of animal and it is a brilliant piece of kit now. And none of them shift up by itself in RACE mode. That is also a fact. The steering is also better and even faster, etc... It is clear know that you don't know anything about the car you are talking about. And the top gear test... oh man, the normal Clio 4 RS Cup has beaten there the Fiesta ST. :D and as I said and as test were proven it as well the Clio Trophy is by miles quicker than the normal Clio RS Cup. Performance wise the Fiesta ST is just no match for the Clio Trophy. Not in the straight line, not around track and not even on B roads. Bye bye

[@robble69]

Carfection - do you think you would have had a different conclusion had the MINI had three pedals?

[@bingoberra18]

+Carfection I think the Mini will hold its value better though so looking at it 5 years from now, plus considering all the advantages, I would probably spend that extra bit of cash and get a more mature car.

[@robble69]

+bingoberra18 I don't know how the clip holds its value since they aren't sold in theUS but MINI badly beats the ford in resale value.

[@robble69]

+Carfection I gotta agree about the price. It's pretty easy to make a $40k JCW if you check of all 9 zillion available options. At the roughly $31k starting price there is a lot of track worthy competition although none with as much character or style (think Subaru, VW GTI). Once you get into the upper 30's then it would compete with the focus RS (which isn't sold in the US yet). MINI is a very capable track car but it's obviously not the fastest for the money. Perhaps that is why MINI is shooting more for "upscale" vs all out track performance. Also note that a simple intercooler upgrade and ecu flash can add significant power to it (although that can probably be said about most turbo'ed cars).

[@robble69]

+Carfection what BMW/MINI should do for the JCW (or at least the next GP) is make it awd and tune the engine the same way it is tuned in the i8. If the i8 gets 228hp from the 3 cylinder version of the engine I bet the 4 cylinder could be a beast.

[@robble69]

+SuperSayanFitness frankly, I agree with your assessment on Ford quality - 10 years ago. They are much better than they used to be. It's also obvious you have never visited the US if you think everyone drives fords, Cadillacs, and huge cars (maybe you're just jealous that our gasoline cost's less than two dollars a gallon right now). You also show your extreme ignorance and forwards financials. I don't see how you can say they're losing hundreds of thousands of dollars when they made over a $10 billion profit last year. Really, you are a disgraceful example of ignorant European snobbery. Before making outlandish claims you should do your homework.

[@evofan1113]

No GTI?

[@HexaSquirrel]

+Michael Anderson Which one, Polo or Golf?

[@VisioRacer]

Guys, I think he meant Polo GTI which is just perfect for this comparison

[@VisioRacer]

No problem, I just pointed out what Michael probably meant by GTI