Cartomancer Feat in the Book of Many Things (D&D 5e) | Nerd Immersion

[@NerdImmersion]

Also I now realize, apparently Warlocks can't take it because they have Pact Magic and not Spellcasting

[@pederw4900]

That is a glaring oversight, maybe they’ll change the name of the feature in UA or the final version.

[@serenitysilvermoon]

Yet Paladins and Rangers can. My prankster warlock would ADORE this

[@richardgarrettjr4431]

This feat is integral to my warlock character's flavor. Oh no. What am I to do? 🤔 Oh right. I'm the lead DM. I grant myself permission to use this feat. 😂

[@Taven03]

As a dm I would definitely allow warlocks to have it as it seems like a typo rather than a rule.

[@mrthor8273]

I'd let my players that can cast a spell use this. No matter what the name of their spellcasting is.

[@candroid4789]

The eldritch adept feat also has the spellcasting feature as a prerequisite like Cartomancer. Funnily, the way it’s worded, Cartomancer actually can’t be taken by Warlocks because they have the Pact Magic feature, not the Spellcasting feature. This is strange to me because I always imagined Cartomancer as fitting for warlocks thematically.

[@TheJeSTeR7530]

Personally, i think it has the best thematical fit with the Bard, but Warlock would be a close second to me.

[@alfonsovallejo2665]

You can multiclass into any other class with spellcasting feature and you are good to go.

[@bittergeek]

If you have to give up a level in warlock and thus push back the point where you can choose the feat, then it is still a poor choice for warlocks. You - like most everybody else - is probably only playing to level 10-12, so you are getting at best 3 feats/ability increases. Throw one of those levels into some other class just to get the spellcasting feature, which will have crap spells since your levels in warlock won't stack, and you guarantee you'll never see that third feat before the campaign ends. And you're losing 8-10% of the levels you'll ever get in warlock for it. Yay?

[@alfonsovallejo2665]

@@bittergeek you get 2 spellslots and 4 spells from a good spelllist that differs from the warlock's... all that just for 1 level in bard... taking a single level of bard (or even sorcerer) is a good feat itself. And no, you can get the benefits right away and at lv 6 you are as potent as any other straight class but with more options. I master and play 3 times a week with different leveled parties... 1 level multiclass is a great idea for a warlock... so no yay, sir, stay humble.

[@weswtf]

pact magic is what grants a warlock their magic so they can take this. you can't if your race grants you spells a your class doesn't

[@davidburesh]

Actually, the most powerful thing I think I can see with this Feat which obeys rules as strictly written, but totally breaks rules as intended, is multi-classing. Say, for example, I am a Level 5 Wizard / Level 4 Cleric. I have access to level 5 Spell Slots, but I can only prepare level 2 Cleric spells and can only learn / prepare level 3 Wizard spells. This magic item would let me take a 5th level spell from either the Wizard or the Cleric list, and be able to cast it once as a Bonus Action in the next 8 hours.

[@staudd]

good catch

[@Pentten]

While I'm not sure how much demand there is for 5th level Ranger and Paladin exclusive spells are, you could probably use this feat to get those much sooner than you otherwise would. Same idea as you mentioned, 2 level in Paladin/Ranger and 8 into a full caster gets you those 5th level slots.

[@davidburesh]

@@Pentten - I think the real potence isn't in the Ranger or Paladin class, but rather the one level dip into the class of your choice (Wizard, Cleric, Druid) to snag a high level spell of your choice. Don't need to be a Wizard to get Wish anymore - Cleric 19 / Wizard 1 can do it just fine.

[@pederw4900]

The wording is similar in the Magical Secrets feature of Bards, but there are two differences: the bard feature says “of a level you can cast” which is easier to blow over in multiclassing restrictions than very concrete spell slots; and the feature is on a particular class, where the Hidden Ace can be part of a feature earned by any class at 4th level. If you interpret “your class’s spell list” to mean the spell list for the class with which you selected this ASI, it could ease some multiclassing woes

[@envytee9659]

​@@pederw4900Feats, unless explicitly saying otherwise, apply to all of a character's classes.

[@davidjohnson4657]

Also a weird interaction with multi class. If you have access to a higher level spell slot but not that level of spells known you could access that higher level spell. Like level 1 wizard level 4 Druid could use hidden ace to cast fireball. Even though they don’t have access to 3rd level wizard spells.

[@Lord_zeel]

The problem with the wording, is that if we compare to any other features that do similar things, this feat is quite different. Whether it's a ring of spell storing, or Arcane Abeyance, this type of thing usually uses the word "Cast" when putting the spell into an item/statis, while the feat doesn't. For those things, it's clear that the spell slot is consumed at the time of storage, while here "imbue" doesn't really mean anything. But then when we cast the spell from within the card, it's arguable that we're casting a spell from an item - which would not consume a slot either. I think they probably intended that this is where you consume a slot, but it doesn't actually say so. Thing is, if all it does is allow you to pick a spell in the morning, and then cast it later as a bonus action... the feature sucks. Compared to what a Sorcerer can do, or the Meta Magic Adept feat, it's really underwhelming. This makes me think that maybe they intended it to be a bit better than that. Furthermore, the UA version had this weird limit placed on it that the spell level had to be at most your proficiency bonus. That rule really made it seem like they were compensating for giving you an extra spell per day by limiting the max level - another 9th level spell wasn't possible in that version. Over all, looking at the feat as written, the UA version, and other comparable stuff... I just think they screwed up. I think what got printed might be a sort of half-way chimera of more than one version of the feat that ended up being ambiguous and frustrating. As is, it's either the BEST feat any spellcaster can take, or basically terrible if you aren't just taking it for flavor. And it all depends on how you interpret it. Oh, except for Warlocks. They aren't allowed to have it for some reason.

[@exturkconner]

Imbue does mean something. We have a lot of things that can imbue things in the game. It means putting magical energy into an item and allowing it to do something. I would say the fact it says imbue and not cast makes it pretty clear. This doesn't consume a slot. You can't create it if you've used all of your slots because then you don't have magic left to imbue into it. But as long as you do you can. Artificer infusions are imbued. The new Barbarian Giant themed subclass imbues magic energy into weapons to give them elemental damage and turn them into returning weapons. Eldritch Knights imbue weapons to allow them to be summoned.

[@lightbringer1979]

@@exturkconner you're correct. The wording was intentional and it makes the feat very powerful. The missteps I'm seeing in people's thought process is: "This shouldn't be this way, therefore I'm going to read it in this other way, because that's too powerful." This process is called eisegesis, where you project what you want onto text. But the feat says it clearly and if the authors wanted it to require a spell slot, they would have said so as they have done time and time again in other texts.

[@williamgordon5443]

@@lightbringer1979 Part of the problem is that most magical items say something along the lines of "while holding magical item you can cast a spell from it", specifically implying that the spell is cast from the item with the "spell from it" part, but this feature says that you flourish the card "and cast the spell within" and doesn't specify if the cast is from card or you use a spell slot when you flourish the card. So, yes i agree that you don't use a spell slot to imbue the card, but it is unclear if you use a spell slot when you flourish the card.

[@lightbringer1979]

@@williamgordon5443 fair enough. I believe if it intended for you to expend a spell slot it’d state as such. This transaction would be mentioned either when imbueing or when cast, but that transaction, which would be important to mention if intended, wasn’t mentioned. This was intentional and not an accident.

[@chipan9191]

​@@williamgordon5443 I don't see how the spell could be "within" the card if you have to cast it yourself. It seems like it would be within the card in the same sense as spells within scrolls.

[@dungeondojo]

The funny thing about this feat is it already needs like 3 sage advice rulings. It is NOT worded very clearly.

[@ATMOSK1234]

Isn't sage advice dead?

[@because4337]

As written, it is a free spell without using a slot. Imbuing the spell does not cost a slot, and you cast it from the card like a magic item.

[@jackharington3126]

That would make it a much better feat and I think more viable as an option. The ability to cast on Action spell as a Bonus Action, while still using the same slot, with no ASI - pretty mid. But giving you essentially one bonus spell slot that can do that, that sounds more like a 4th level feat.

[@bradleyhurley6755]

The card isn't a magic item though. No one other than you can use it. So you would have to expend a spell slot. I don't think the rules support it being a magic item, because it is a feat and it is limited to only you. But if it was viewed as a magic item, then I suppose it would not take a spell slot.

[@Mayham719]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@bradleyhurley6755though being able to imbue a card and giving it to someone else to use would be cool.

[@dennisddt1146]

@@bradleyhurley6755 The OP comment isn't arguing rules as intended, they're arguing as written. And as written, it never states that you need to use a spell slot.

[@bradleyhurley6755]

@@dennisddt1146 I disagree, as it is not a magic item, so the rules as written means a spell slot is used. The only time in the game a spell slot isn't used is if you use a magic item.

[@mlhcomics]

The issue is that you can cast any spell on your spell list. This means a wizard 1/Cleric 19 can cast Wish, or ANY wizard spell once.

[@reflectivevagrant5531]

Indeed. Or a person that multiclasses into several full casters could cast any of their lvl 9 spells. a lvl 1 artificer (Half caster, yes, but their contribution rounds up, not down) lvl 9 wizard, level 1 cleric and level 6 sorcerer could potentially cast a lvl 9 style spell through the card even though they can't cast one normally (not counting up-casting) They don't know/can't prepare lvl 9 spells, but they have a lvl 9 spell slot and multiple spell lists with level 9 spells.

[@mrinfinity5557]

Start a level as paladin, and suddenly you also get find steed and find greater steed, and can have both a warhorse and unicorn in combat alongside your familiar (and maybe a few animated dead and a planar binded greater demon too). All while wearing plate armor

[@andyenglish4303]

It doesn't mention anything about expending spell slots when you imbue it or when you cast it. It honestly looks like the intention is that you just have this extra spell. I think others are rightly pointing out the big problem is with multiclassing--a Wizard 1, Cleric 17 gets a once-per-long rest bonus action Wish because they have a 9th level slot and Wish is now, by technicality, on their class list.

[@jasonsumma1530]

For me, thematically, I can see this fitting in well with a bard due to the entertainment value. I'll admit I never thought of bards as on stage magicians but probably could be done well.

[@Mirdas343]

My view to this feet is that it indeed lets you cast one spell for free, all possible interactions seems like it. Rule for some magical items states that you dont expend spell slots when you use charges, it simply depletes magic in those items. (Like in this card you create) Next thing i am thinking of is, that it is at the end of the long rest, basically long rest is sleep or some light activity and it recovers your spell slots. What i am thinking about is that as part of that long rest (light activity), you just store some of your magical power into the card beforehand as you are normally recovering your spells. Last thing that in my opinion supports this is that 8 hours timer, this is not perfect spell storing item like artificers have, so magic is fading away from the card and it is cool way to not let it be too op (little nerf feature for otherwise good feature) Some people argue that its just not possible from 4th lvl feat, but it doesnt give you ability increases and at 4th lvl it just gives you one more 2cnd lvl spell on a timer. Its more versatile, sure but its still has enough downsides. Is taking feat like Shadow Touched at lvl 1 as versatile humand and got 2cnd lvl spell and one 1st lvl spell + 1 ability score increase less op then this? Cartomancer is 4th lvl and has better scaling but its comparable Its just my personal take, but i would love some sage advice on this too :D

[@xiongray]

Eldritch Adept, Metamagic Adept, & Rune Shaper also have the prerequisite of Spellcasting.

[@Lord_zeel]

The first two also have Pact Magic as an option, which goes to prove that the Cartomancer is for some reason specifically NOT available to Warlock.

[@xiongray]

@@Lord_zeel You've got an eye for details.

[@weswtf]

@@Lord_zeel it is read pact magic

[@X20Adam]

Card tricks says you can use prestidigitation to create ILLUSIONS that duplicate the effects of magic. So no infinite bunny dupe glitch lol

[@Lord_zeel]

Exactly. There are still some really cool possibilities that go beyond what something like Minor Illusion can do with its limited size and lack of motion. But it won't let you totally cheese reality, as it is still an illusion in the end. I feel like anyone that likes watching Penn & Teller: Fool Us would have a lot of fun with this. How can the GM argue with anything you can show them someone really did on stage? And most of the performances are on KZbin.

[@MrRichardCopeland]

My first impression was that it doesnt use a spell slot at all. I was thinking of something like wand of magic missile, you cast magic missile with no spell slot

[@Wheyfarer]

The difference is that Wand of Magic Missiles is already a magical item. The card itself isn't magical by default, you need to use the spell slot to make the card hold a magical spell. That's how I'd rule it as a DM. However you want to interpret it aside, the feat already needs sage advice because the wording on it sucks.

[@AzureSomething]

Yeah, I think it's intended that a spell slot is consumed when the card is used to cast the spell. That way you're not out of a spell slot if you don't cast it that day, but you also don't just get a free spell. That said, I am a bit salty that as written, Warlocks can't take this as it doesn't work with Pact Magic.

[@dew-it8744]

Yeah, it would have been really useful because it would have given them an additional spell slot. However, that may be the reason why it wasn’t allowed for warlocks

[@alfonsovallejo2665]

Read it correctly, you only need the spellcasting feature, so you can get 1 level of bard/sorcerer and you are good to go. "Hidden Ace" doesn't restrict from which class you have to cast the spell.

[@VikCachat]

​​@@alfonsovallejo2665the feat requires that you must have a spell slot of sufficient level to cast the spell. Do pact slots qualify? If not then you will only be limited to level 1 spells for bard/sorc.

[@bradleyhurley6755]

I mentioned this on another comment but I'll restate it here. The rules for spellcasting state "When a character casts a spell, he or she expends a slot of that spell’s level or higher." You only ever expend a spell slot when you cast the spell. The rules require you to expend a spell slot when casting a spell. One would need something in the feat description to override the normal rules of the game, and there isn't anything there to do so, so you have to expend a spell slot.

[@bradleyhurley6755]

@@alfonsovallejo2665 I think that would work, but Warlocks only ever have 5th level spell slots. Seems more useful if you were going Sorcerer primary with a touch of Warlock instead. So you could get access to all those Mystic Arcanum spells without being a Warlock. Really this spell is just a Sorlock's best friend.

[@alfonsovallejo2665]

Also, keep in mind that all the new material is supposed to be more compatible with one d&d. Cartomancer is the first feat with a level prerequisite that doesn't have a +1 in a stat, its kind of weird.

[@xiongray]

Do we know if this Spell imbued-card ignores spellcasting components? In particular, Material Components. Say for instance, Revivify (300G & consumed) or Summon Beast ( a feather, tuft of fur, and fish tail inside a gilded acorn worth at least 200 gp)? Or would flourishing the card still demand the other materials or even, all of the Spell Components? This reads more like an Instant Spell Scroll, item, original Spell Level. Honestly, all it should say mechanically is, "turns a 1 action Spell into Bonus action."

[@DavidGonzalez-wd4gu]

As I'm understanding it you're allowing it to be imbued with a spell not using up your spell slot but once imbued you'll only have 8 hours to use it otherwise it's lost and you have to wait a long rest to be able to do this again. I'm pretty sure that you don't have to imbue it immediately after a rest.

[@exturkconner]

It implies it. "When you finish a long rest" and it doesn't speak about how long it takes to actually do it. The rule is frankly pretty open to interpretation on several points.

[@bradleyhurley6755]

The rules of the game state that you expend a spell slot when you cast a spell. You don't expend a spell slot for any reason prior to casting a spell. (unless something specifically said you had to)

[@alfonsovallejo2665]

That feat is kind of neat, specially for warlocks (you can literally have an extra spellslot because you can get a short rest and get your slot back while still having your 8hr long card). I know the wording says "Spellcasting Feature" as a prerequisite, but you can multiclass to have it.

[@atomicash2475]

1 level of divine soul sorcerer, get cleric and Sorcerer spell lists

[@bradleyhurley6755]

Unfortunately Warlocks who would probably benefit from this the most, can't actually take the feat, unless they multiclass...which is another reason you should always multiclass your warlock.

[@sharingheart13]

The interpretation that would make this broken in my opinion is that you don't even have to be able to cast the spell. You just have to have spells slots of the appropriate level and for the spell be a 1 action spell in your class. So if my character is a multiclassed level 19 Wizard/Level 1 Sorcerer, I can imbue the card with a 9th level Sorcerer spell. This makes sense as cartomancy is a form of divination, so it'd give you knowledge you don't have, but still, powerful stuff.

[@chrishandsome7012]

Bonus action cloud of daggers, then cast thunder wave goes hard. To hell with one leveled spell a turn, that rule’s been outdated for years

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

So the newest "game breaking" feat gives a single casting of a pre selected leveled spell once per day. So no one is using their downtime to scribe scrolls. Sure sure. The action casting time down to a bonus action that's not technically a spell casting action is nice, but creating spell scrolls to get free spell slots is something every spell caster should be doing anyway.

[@brittanyanderson97]

Yes, but the feat lets you do this instantaneously, at seemingly no cost of a spell slot (which I don't think was the design intent) where as crafting a still scroll requires time, money, and the ability to cast the spell or getting someone who can. Personally, I just think it's a hot mess of a feat and WotC really screwed up when rewriting it. The playtest version was fine because the spell had to be equal to or lower than you PB. If they kept that part in people wouldn't be as up in arms about it 😑

[@almisami]

I think ''imbuing the spell within'' is what makes it use up the spell slot.

[@mechanizedMytha]

the way I'm interpreting this, the spell Comes from the card, so if you, say, imbued a fireball into a Towers tarot card, and then Galder's speedy courier it to the BBEG, if they take it, you could theoretically bonus action blow it up in their face!

[@Intender]

That's how I read it too, like how Artificers imbue items with spells and get charges. This just isn't worded as carefully as the Artificer feature.

[@mechanizedMytha]

@@Intender probably gonna get a sage advice or something of sort clarifying sooner than later

[@jt6546]

I don't think this works this way as written. The description says you have to flourish the card as a bonus action to cast the spell. How can you flourish a card if you are not in possession of it? Keep in mind it says you have to do it, not just anyone. This also would prevent you from imbuing the card and giving it to an ally to use.

[@mechanizedMytha]

@@jt6546 ok, but it says you use the bonus action to flourish it, doesen't say you have to have it on your person, else it would say "while you are holding X"

[@jt6546]

@@mechanizedMytha how would you be able to flourish a card you are not holding? It would be really redundant to say you have to hold it, when that is part of the definition of flourishing a card.

[@arc4382]

I like the feat, though it doesn't mention anything regarding costly material components not covered by a spellcasting focus. My assumption there is that you still need to have them in order to cast the spell.

[@bradleyhurley6755]

You would. As a general rule you need the material components unless something explicitly says you don't.

[@OliverK1]

If you were "casting " the spell, but your not according to the wording. So, no components, not necessarily

[@bradleyhurley6755]

@OliverK1 I believe the feat says specifically that you cast the spell. Therefore, you would need the material components.

[@LanceLaytner]

I plan to use this for a spooky Spirits Bard using a tarokka deck. For even more flavor do a 1 level dip in Undead Warlock to pick up form of dread. Imagine your fortune teller transforming into a ghost while reading your fortune.

[@CoyoteGris]

the fact that the new feats had to specify "with the spellcasting feature", only because people will consider spellcaster a barbarian thats specifies a tribal ritual to cast one single spell per day, is why crawford cannot close its twitterX account.

[@bradleyhurley6755]

The way the rules work, everything has to be specific. MtG works the same way, and is still the hardest test I've ever taken in my life and I have a master's degree. A lot of the official rulings go back to specifics. For example, you can sneak attack on multiple turns per round. Which means a rogue with a Battlemaster buddy is way more powerful (also note that currently no longer works in the 2024 edition).

[@ArcheryGeek]

I love that you do these deep dives and very thankful for people like you in our community, I will always keep watching your common sense videos but I am definitely moving back to basics with my games - we just started a new campaign and all players and DM are using the original books only. It is so much less stressful not having to have a degree in D&D to use all the books, it keeps the game tight and fast with a more of a game feel which we like. As always really love you content!

[@godofzombi]

Hidden ace + Fireball. You are now Gambit.

[@deanospimoniful]

Thanks for the hot tip on Chains of Asmodeus. My gaming group is starting the campaign tonight.

[@vulcorethegreat1220]

I played a rouge/wizard using the unearthed arcana version. It worked very well and wasn't op at all. Other then being able to cast fire ball twice in one turn, but that is because of a house rule with spell casting we run. In the several months of play testing this feat my DM, other players, and I (also been a DM for like 8 years or something) We all agreed based on the wording both the current and UA. The card acts like a ring of spell storing. You do not use a spell slot to cast it. When you imbue something you are imparting, giving, or storing something within the card. The 2, 9th lvl spells thing really isn't a problem because the feat scales with your spell slots. So it is only a problem at lvl 17+. As a dm I would just say you can't store wish in it. Also if people are worried about power scale use the rule in the UA version. The spell lvl limit for the card imbue is equal to your proficiency bonus so you max out at 6th lvl spells.

[@OliverK1]

Hehe, I'd say you should be able to have more than 1 wish spell in a ring. The wish ring comes with 1-3 wishes... they got there somehow right?

[@EliSlacker]

Im so excited. Thanks for this breakdown

[@nicholasdallman4518]

I saw Cartomancer in the title and clicked thinking it might be related to a homebrew class, of the same name, that I made for a spellcasting battlefield controller. Sadly, it had nothing to do with that. Still, it was an informative vid worth the notification I got for subbing and having the bell rung.

[@weswtf]

For all of you who are saying this won't work with warlock (Pact Magic Your arcane research and the magic bestowed on you by your patron have given you facility with spells. See Spells Rules for the general rules of spellcasting and the Spells Listing for the warlock spell list.) WOTC! Spellcasting in other classes bard, cleric, etc. are all the same flavour then the same text.

[@envytee9659]

Pact Magic and Spellcasting are both worded similarly, but they are still different features. Other feats specify that you can have either Spellcasting or Pact Magic. Because this feat just has Spellcasting, pure Warlocks can't take it.

[@SerasXHarkonnen]

So the best use of hidden ace is with a multi class. Technically it just says you have to have an appropriate level spell slot and it be on your spell list, doesn't say you need to be able to cast spells of the level in that class. So you take a one level druid or cleric dip on your wizard and now you have some healing options, revivify even.

[@DanielTose]

Multiclass. A single level in divine soul sorc, maybe 4 in Bard, 2 paladin, 1 hexblade, rest wizard and you can cast very nearly every spell in the game. It would actually be possible to have access to every single spell other than Shadow of Moil with 1 aberrant mind, 1 pali, 1 ranger, 1 cleric, 4 druid, 6 wizard, 2 warlock, 4 bard along with 3 ASIs and potentially multi attack

[@keithcurtis]

As written, the somatic components are required to be "card handling". I take this to mean that the type of stage magic being reproduced is close magic involving cards. Hence the name, "Card Tricks".

[@lordcoyote2000]

I built a warlock/bard build and while it's true that you don't get a really high spell slot if you go many levels in warlock, it's still pretty potent.

[@rexringtail471]

Most bardlocks only take 1-2 levels of hexblade. So this would let the tier 3-4 bard drop a very high level warlock spell they normally would not have access too, in addition to many of things.

[@killersatellite3838]

Is it possible to share the card to an ally? Like imbue haste onto a spell and give it to my monk?

[@joshraney5723]

This video is a few months old now, so I am quite late to the comments, but felt i would raise some points. This feat is so good, that you suffer as a spellcaster for not taking it...I will explain. "Hidden Ace" lets you "choose one spell from your class's spell list and imbue that spell into a card." 1) Important to note is that is says to choose one spell from your class list, NOT one spell you know. This means that every long rest you can snag a free spell from your class list and use it (at least) once per LR. 2)Note once again the wording in the feat, you "imbue" that spell into the card. Nowhere in the feature does it say that you expend an actual spell slot to imbue, just that it is imbued. So not only do you get to pick ANY spell from your class list (regardless if you know it or not) you get to cast it for free once a LR. This feat, albeit in a roundabout manner, essentially grants you an additional usage of your HIGHEST or choice, level spell slot. 3) It does not have a limit to the number of cards you can have at one time. Just that the player can imbue only after completing a LR...so if one is playing a race that requires only 4 hours to complete a LR, it is possible to have two of these cards active during the same adventuring day. So if one was a 20th level elven wizard, you could cast 3 9th level spells in your adventuring day. 4) Because this feature does not consume a spell slot to imbue the card. Should a sufficiently powerful caster have "Simulacrum", their duplicate can subsequently do points 1-3. 5) It changes the casting time of the spell you imbue from "one action" to being cast as a bonus action when you flourish the card. This is applying the metamagic feature "Quickened Spell" to each use of this feature...inherently and at no cost. I have no earthly idea how this feat actually got published as it is.

[@happiestcheese5915]

not sure if point 3 works because: "A character can’t benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period, and a character must have at least 1 hit point at the start of the rest to gain its benefits."

[@iantracy2843]

Gonna add in my two cents here. People for some odd reason do not want this Feat to give out a free casting of a spell. I don't know why, because we have to add text or words to it for that to be true. In order for it to consume a spell slot, it would say it. It says imbue. Which to me comes across like it is turning the card into a temporary spell scroll. Which, as I understand it, does not require the spell to be cast when creating said scroll. So why does everyone think it does with this Feat? It uses wording like, "cast the spell from within". Which is like all the magic items that let you cast from the item, not your spell slot. It takes far less effort and mental gymnastics to see that it does not cost a spell slot than trying to shoehorn in that it does. It does not come across as all that game busting. It gives you one casting of a spell that doesn't need to be prepared a day. It's not all that different from Feats that let you cast a spell once a day, spell slot free, until you long rest again. We just get to pick the spell every day.

[@piedpiper1185]

With this feat, a high level wizard or sorcerer can imbue a tarot card with Time Stop and then draw Za Warudo!

[@beefytaco6374]

This feat is so beyond broken. It gives you a spell equal in power to your highest spell slot. Peak example. A wizard casts wish using the card which you can do due to being level 17 and then as an action cast wish again. In addition as written you could multiclass one level into cleric and then prepare mass heal for your card since you have the spell slot for it. Don’t need to be able to prepare or know it. Also as written the card would lose its spell after 8 hours after being imbued with the magic if the spell isn’t casted by then.

[@Deathmvp1]

Hiden Ace on a Celestial Soc would give them many spells to pick from.

[@TheBahamaat]

I would imagine "stage magic: in this context means card tricks. And hidden ace is completely broken as written... sigh. Another example of why they really need to write and edit these things better.

[@Wheyfarer]

Precisely with the stage magic. The sawing people in half trick is a bit of reach considering the context. Regardless, the feat definitely needs clarification already.

[@jamesmartin8005]

@CodyM1990 Actually, "sawing someone in half"..is perfectly within the reach of the feature. Since its an illusion. You can pull a rabbit out of a hat too. its not real, but you can do it. And while Hidden Ace is good. Really good if you let people multiclass with it. Its not super broken. you get an addtional spell you can cast once in the morning/afternoon. (since it only lasts 8 hours). Personally id rule for multiclassing, you can select any spell you could normally cast. so the 19 cleric/1 Wiz, couldent get Wish, but could get earthquake.

[@Wheyfarer]

@@jamesmartin8005 To each their own, but I disagree with sawing someone in half. How you pull that from a cantrip and attempt to make it believable just doesn't work for me. I'd limit it to card tricks, which is much more in nature with the description of the cantrip and it's functionality with the deck of cards.

[@dragonmk123]

I kinda wish they would have done the same thing they did for theros when we preorder our books at our LGS. Tempted to get it on dnd beyond but all I want is the deck of cards.

[@johnpaullogan1365]

i think an errata or sage advice will clear up that you still spend a spell slot when you cast the spell. to me that seems to be the intention

[@OfficialAge]

Kinda good for Multiclassing. It just says from your Class' Spell List. So if i'm 1 lvl in Cleric and 19 lvl in Wizard, i could technically store something like "Mass Heal" in there. Because i have a 9th lvl Spell Slot

[@andya5456]

Also bypasses the built in limitation of multi class casters. A level 10 wizard/1 cleric has a 6th level slot but cannot prepare a 6th level wizard spell.

[@rexringtail471]

The Card Tricks feature is one of the most powerful ribbons of all time, campaign and build dependent. An eloquence bard with telekinetic feat, gloves of thievery, and cartomancer comes very close to being completely impossible to beat at gambling. Gambling is, in my experience, usually part of the story world, and being the best gambler IN THE WORLD has obvious implications for the campaign and gold/magic item economy of the party. And that's not even considered the powerful part of the feat...

[@Itachi45481]

feels like yes a free spell because of its wording which is strong but not op warlocks have access to free cast spells so I do not see the issue here

[@envytee9659]

A free spell only becomes OP at high levels. An extra 8th or 9th level spell slot is crazy strong at level 15+. But until then, it's not a major issue.

[@Itachi45481]

exactly@@envytee9659

[@delroland]

begs the question about multiclass spellcasters: technically they have higher level slots even if they don't know/can't prepare higher level spells

[@rexringtail471]

Also-- are components consumed? When? It would only make since to have them consumed during the imbuing process, as it would be pointless to make something a quick-draw bonus action if you had to fumble around for your 1000 GP cost chalice or something. Then if you don't use it, are the components still consumed? Or poof back into existence? To me the only practical way to deal with that would be to have there be no need for material components. But that is super easy to abuse at higher levels with expensive spells, or spells that have very difficult components to acquire. Like a free heros feast every day, although I think that is longer than 1 action to cast. You get the point though.

[@artmaton112]

So I imbue card with wish and then I cast wish from it than its just a magical item rule not mine. So Do i still go under rule o 33% not casting it ever again? Or I cast wish from my standard spell slot to multiply this imbued card and than i Got a deck of wish cards :) ... Deck of Many Wishes.

[@sealedtugboat9965]

The feature still says you’re “casting the spell” when you flourish the card. Otherwise it would say the card casts the spell. And that would mean you couldn’t use spells with a range of self, you wouldn’t be able to use your spell-casting ability modifier/ spell save dc and you wouldn’t have to concentrate on spells.

[@SplotchyInk]

With the ace thing, 'normally' if your going to be using a spell slot the rules tend to say "use a spell slot to..." So it sounds like a free spellslot. Really feels like another case of "WotC didn't proofread it". Because honestly, it feels rules as written to be a free spell slot of any type. Because you can 'cast' stuff from a wand that has the spell already in it without requiring to spend your spell slots, but in the 'creation' of the magic card item it doesn't ask you to spend a spell slot. Though yeah, it just seems that WotC just didn't have a normal person read it and see if they interpreted it right...

[@godofzombi]

Wizards needs to come up with a list of keywords. What does "imbue" actually mean. But Yeah, I agree with your interpretation. So it's basically the Metamagic Adept feat where you only use the quickened spell option. And you get prestedigitation as well.

[@cendresaphoenix1974]

Yeah but you can also use multiple 9th level spells up to 3 if you ahem... Play your cards right. 😅

[@godofzombi]

The DM will need to come down on the "illusions" part of "that duplicate the effects of stage magic", otherwise your players are gonna pull infinite platinum coins from their ears.

[@KolmManison]

As poorly written as it is, my favorite part about it is the first bullet "You can use a card deck as your spellcasting focus" it's basically Ruby of the War Mage as a feat which is a godsend for weird, wacky multiclass builds (yes, component pouch exists but this is cooler, shut up). And it gives you a free cantrip, one of the best ones in the game too. And it gives you quickened spell metamagic once a day with the freedom of choosing spells you dont know or have prepared. I might just like it cuz Im relatively new to d&d but this feat is cool.

[@PixelsPirate]

Physical release have already been delivered , got mine a week ago, on 18 nov

[@DonRaynor]

+1 spell at my highest level? Mu wizards suddenly got interested in Card counting.

[@mr7oclock346]

I would allow a player to do stage magic with slight of hand, or performance (magician). So, if a player comes to that, we'll ended up doing a full on David Copperfield build. I see this as a Bard thing rather than a sorcerer build. Instead of playing a song of rest, he puts on a little magic show his companions. Imbuing an item with magic isn't allot different from what am artificer does

[@trexdrew]

As per the current RAW wording of this feat until otherwise revised 1. The feat doesn’t consume a spell slot. Neither when you “imbue” a card with a spell nor on the casting of the spell does it ever say a slot is used. Anyone saying “oh well imbue it means you used the slot!” Then why doesn’t it say that plainly like every other mechanic? Oh well casting a spell as a general rule of 5e means you’re using a slot! That’s not how RAW works and there’s tons of things that cast spells and don’t use slots. Also if it did use a slot as Ted mentioned what happens to it if it goes unused? Every mechanic in the game that uses a slot on a timed basis explicitly states what happens when that time limit runs out, but this one doesn’t. So the only conclusion we’re left to draw on the RAW of this point is it doesn’t use a slot because it doesn’t explain what happens when time runs out and the word “imbue” is useless fluff like any other piece of flavor that you naturally cut through when examining RAW. 2. You don’t have to have the spell prepared to “imbue” a card. That means you can have one spell prepared on your list while storing a spell that isn’t prepared but is on your class spell list. All it requires is that it’s on your spell list. Pretty straight forward and it states this directly it’s class spell list not prepared list. Very powerful distinction that adds a whole new level of utility to the feat and spells you might take. 3. The spell can be one with a specific gold cost or a consumed material component. This is completely opposite of how most abilities like this work as they usually restrict you to spells that don’t have those requirements. Or maybe it’s better to say that there’s really no way to tell if it would or not because it doesn’t require you to have it prepared and doesn’t restrict you so you wouldn’t necessarily have those components anyway if it’s not prepared. Every spell storing thing in 5e that I know of explicitly restricts these things in their text. Foci of all types do and from what I can tell this is strengthened by the fact a ring of spell storing does NOT stop you from storing revivify in it for example. All in all this feat is worded TERRIBLY and I smell an immediate errata because of it

[@brianreynolds2359]

Love this on arcane trickster

[@williamgordon5443]

I think that you don't use a spell slot when you imbue the card, but I don't know if you need to use a spell slot when you flourish the card. If you don't use the card, then you don't use a spell slot.

[@WilliamRoop-xt6rp]

I don't believe that, RAW, you can have two 9th level spells... It takes a long rest to regain it: 8 hours. This fizzled the card. It basically lets you preload a quick cast without spending sorcery points

[@klebermarchand]

Just after I make a fiend warlock with playing cards

[@michaelrizzo7342]

just take one level of sorcerer

[@xiongray]

​@@michaelrizzo7342or two levels in Paladin

[@bora7494]

If you think about Fey or Shadow touched they add a +1 on an attribute plus a free cast of 2 spells. Giving out a free cast of a spell doesn't seem to be that OP then.

[@justinmcglathery7979]

Our table reads it as if you assume the rules are written for a single classes only, as multiclassing is an optional rule. Our table would not allow a wizard 1 / Druid 4 to cast a fireball with this feat. We would allow that wizard1/druid4 to imbue the card with a burning hands upcast to level 5 though. It can up in our game that out Wizard 8 /Bard 12 wanted to cast Foresight with this feat, and our DM denied that. I agree with our DM. How could you imbue a spell that you don’t know how to cast in game into anything? You don’t know how to cast it! That’s how we play it

[@rantdmc]

Talking about Warlocks not being able to take Cartomancer - needing "Spellcasting" rather than "the ability to cast one spell" so "Pact Magic" doesnt work - was this written when 2024 UA Warlocks were not getting Pact Magic? Is this why the wording is so messed up, that they weren't sure which wording was going in the 2024 PHB?

[@NerdImmersion]

A very good question

[@jamestaylor3805]

So, wanted to make the ultimate card shark character with combat as distant concern for the build. But... Here it goes. Halfling Rewarded background Cartomancy and Telepathic as additional feats. Divination Wizard level 2 Quandrix Sorcerer 5 Fiend/Pact of Chain Warlock 6 Armorer Artificer 7 List of Bonuses to use during poker night... Halfling Luck Cartmomancy Lucky Tool Expertise Integrated Tool Guidance spell Magical Guidance Functions of Probability Portent Dark Ones Own Luck Flash of Genius Enhance Ability spell Detect Thoughts spell Subtle Spell metamagic Extend Spell metamagic A flying, shapeshifting, invisible quasit familiar to spy on opponent hands. A fistful of other potentially beneficial low level spells. Should be able to breach a total skill check roll score of around 60, with critical failures being impossible, and lot's of selective bonuses.

[@f.a.santiago1053]

Hey, I'd REEEALLY like to see your TMNT RPG video. The Kickstarter is DANGEROUSLY close to being over and still no one has a good video reviewing the rules of the previous one.

[@punishedwhispers1218]

No power gamer would take this feat. War caster and Telekinetic are the only two feats in the game.

[@tailfire666]

9th level killing word as a bonus action for free. The issue is they're using the wording "cast the spell within" which they've never used before, but like if you're using a wand and you're casting from the wand, you're not using your spell slots. So presumably this would work the same way because the wording is just not great

[@bradleyhurley6755]

It does not work the same way as magic items. The magic item description for spells specifically overrides the normal requirement to expend a spell slot (In the DMG under Magic items/spells). The feat doesn't override the normal requirement.

[@MisterDiceGuy]

Its unfortunate. This kinda feels like the quality review from a mechanics perspective doesnt exist. We've now seen it in several things they've released in the past year. It just feels like either they are not quality checking or the turn around required is so fast that they just arbitrarily check mark these items. Also there is the fact that this may not be evergreen. If Pact Magic doesn't change to a subset of Spellcasting, it won't work for Warlocks. But that also means if Wizards release another class with another version of spellcasting that isn't called Spellcasting they can't use this either. The funny thing about Hidden Ace having that ambiguity is that they could have just had you expend the spell slot prior to storing it then cast it at that level, giving a limit of 1 spell stored at a time, and then a time limit and you can avoid the whole "When you finish a long rest" issue. Just feels a little sloppy.

[@JJRodriguez]

The way it's worded makes it seem that the card is treated like a spell scroll until you use it. It would mention that a spell slot is needed, if it's needed, wouldn't it?

[@Lord_zeel]

That's the "rule" of 5e rules. Things do exactly what they say they do, no more and no less. But boy is that OP if it works that way.

[@hannahleith52]

Interpreting it as an extra spell once per day is not that broken yes it's powerful but all it allows you to have is one extra spell of a level you could already cast possibly up even a ninth level spell potentially but realistically it's not giving a ninth level slot at level 4 or even level 12 you wouldn't be getting the extra ninth level slot until you cast them anyway at level 17 at that point the entire game is broken anyway so no big deal and most games it will end before that point anyway so no problem the whole feat self regulates quite effectively. If one extra spell slot could ruin your game entirely then your DM is at fault. There's no point having this feat if the function requires casting the spell into the card if that was the case all the hidden Ace part of the feat would be is a nerfed Metamagic Adept with only Quickened Spell.

[@aaronhebert7092]

I completely ignore the leveled spell/bonus action rule for all characters, every time. Been playing this way for about two years now and it hasn't broken our game. One extra spell a round, once? Meh. I'm not scared. Haha.

[@_skirdybirdy1788]

instant tiny hut in combat

[@chameleonx9253]

If it allowed you to cast the spell without using a spell slot, it would probably say that. The vast majority of effects that let you bypass spell slots specify that you can do so, iirc.

[@bradleyhurley6755]

Technically when you cast a spell, you expend a spell slot of the spell's level or higher. This is always true, regardless of how you cast the spell. The only way it is not true is if the ability that grants you the spell overrides the requirement. This does not override the requirement, so it would indeed expend the spell slot when you cast it.

[@xiongray]

Summon " Monster" -Yu-gi-oh!!!

[@animewatcha]

So Wording as it is now. You can 'cast' 2 9th level spells within an 8 hour time period.

[@FlameHead1984]

Clearly the card tricks stage magic is only card tricks and not sawing people in half. It does specify you hide the verbal and somatic components in ordinary conversations and card handling

[@ManlyPicnics]

I kinda hate that you would have to multiclass to get this on a Warlock. I don't like multiclassing, never use it in my games, and most of my players don't when I DM. With how busted it already is, I'd happily let a Warlock take it. I just like the idea of a Fiend Warlock who specialises in poker cards.

[@DoomedPaladin]

So, could you give the card to someone else? All that it needs is to "be flourished" in order to be cast, although it _does_ say "you" do it. I like it. I'm sure there's some savage combos just waiting to be exploited, but that's just how the game goes at this point, really.

[@jt6546]

The "you" implies only the one with the feat.

[@Artemisthemp]

Techically your statement about been avaliable to People who Pre-order is incorrect, as Digital Pre-order wouldn't have access to, only Physhical + Pre-order and reading Issue thread that wasn't even true.

[@acelegna]

So....what's to stop players from imbuing ALL the cards in the deck with a spell each? Wording says "imbue that spell into A card" and no where does it say: "you can only do imbue one card per long rest" or anything like that?

[@jt6546]

It does clearly say you pick ONE spell and imbue it into A card. Both words I capitalized are grammatically singular. So it clearly states one spell, one card.

[@ryanscanlon2151]

This feat bothers me so much becauae I love it and its very cool but we were asking all these questions when it was UA and its practially unchanged and not clarified at all.

[@xiongray]

It seems half-baked is what it is, using language that only raises questions rather than settle them.

[@jasonr.6123]

As written it doesn't cost you a spell slot, so it is super powerful indeed.

[@BoCEnterprises]

no where does it say to actually use a spell slot.

[@MatthewBreck]

Obviously based off the wording of the feat you cant do anything more powerful than prestidigitation

[@bakuiel1901]

I know some people are saying this doesn't take a spellslot and I don't think that's rules as intended, I also don't think it will use the slot unless you flourish the card and cast the spell. Still turning a action spell to a bonus action is interesting.

[@bradleyhurley6755]

@bakuiel1901 I've mentioned this on several other posts, but the rules specifically require that you expend a spell slot when you cast a spell. So you have to spend the spell slot and you don't spend the spell slot unless you cast a spell. You never spend a spell slot in advance of casting a spell. Many feats, abilities, and magic items remove the requirement to expend a spell slot, but their specific rules must override the default rules of expending a spell slot. For example, the description of magic items that allow you to cast spells, specifically states they do so without using a spell slot.

[@bakuiel1901]

@@bradleyhurley6755 yeah that's exactly what I was trying to same

[@godofzombi]

LOL stage magic is such a loose term. RAW I can use prestedigitation to make a statue of liberty sized object vanish.

[@shadowhell8378]

2 fire ball spells

[@NapalmMoose]

Why does he keep talking about Stage Magic? The feat doesnt talk about that at all, or am I missing something?

[@NerdImmersion]

Yes, apparently. "use it to create illusions that duplicate the effects of stage magic."

[@jt6546]

Re-read the first ability. It mentions stage magic

[@DM_Jimmy]

If the feat essentially just gives you 1 extra known spell for 8 hours (that doesn't cover an adventuring day, just sayin...) and you still have to spend a spell slot for it, then the feat is not good. Adding an extra spell slot for the level of the chosen spell is not game breaking (speaking from experience, I've run 8 campaigns in 5e to at least 15th level starting from 1, and 5 of those have been to 20+). It is amusing to hear so people complain how this would be game breaking giving someone 2 9th level spell slots, when supposedly not many people play to that level.

[@THEdeadlynightshade1646]

if it does take a spell slot basic 3rd level fireball bonus action or unseen servant to go do things while you're distracting them if no spellslot 9TH LEVEL BONUS ACTION FIREBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[@TheJeSTeR7530]

The Hidden Ace feature is not "boderline" busted, it is straight up busted. It does not have a spell level requirement other than you having to have a spell slot of the level, but from the way its worded, it does not require you to expend that spell slot at any point, meaning you can absolutely use it to cast any spell on your spell list once per day without expending a spell slot. If it would require a spell slot to cast the spell it would say that you have to expend the spell slot (like it does with many other abilities and features), but it does not do that and therefore with this feat, i am pretty sure you can now effectively cast two 9th level spells per day... one of which you can cast as a bonus action.

[@kajetanmazurkiewicz5459]

Warlocks don't have a spellcasting feature....

[@nicholascasey6473]

Cartomancers true trick, it allows the casting of 2 leveled spells in one turn. The official ruling is that you cannot cast 2 leveled spells, only either a spell and a cantrip or 2 cantrips if possible, as the source of a spell cannot cast spells twice; being hasted you cannot use the wand of magic missiles twice or the staff of power but can use the object then cast a spell (this also works with the rune shaper feat because you are casting a spell from an object imbued with the spell).

[@fmaia9]

By my understanding, RAI, you only "quicken" a spell a day, that you may or may not have prepared in your list as long as you know it.

[@DaisZX]

even if it works in the tame 'prepare a spell off your list in the morning and quicken it in the evening' way, it is a busted spell for multicalass spellcasters whos slot progression outpaces their spell prtogress. This one is a mess of unclear wording, unclear intent, and unintended knock-on effects.