Cartridge Case Designs & Shapes

[@SteveM0732]

My understanding is that the main advantage of staying out of the neck-shoulder junction with your bullets is that it means not having to worry about doughnuts or having to ream the inside of the neck to remove them. "...easiest and ultimate way around them [doughnuts] is to shoot a case short enough that no portion of the full diameter of a bullet ever gets seated into the neck-shoulder juncture." - Glen Zediker, Handloading for Competition, pages 265-266. He gives the Tubb 6mmX/6XC as an example of this since you can seat the bullet to magazine length while still touching the lands and staying out of the neck-shoulder area.

[@Gdone]

This man’s knowledge is remarkable, if we can absorb 1% of his knowledge we are very fortunate

[@davidsalsedo]

Thank you Randy, Once again a clear explanation of why brass is important and the quality aspects to judge them by. I and many others would truest enjoy a conversation between yourself and Fclass shooter and newby machinist Erik Cortina of “Believe the Target” some time. My hope is he will reach out for an hour of your time. You have so much knowledge and I believe the interview would be prosperous for both of you. God bless you and your family.

[@paulhazel5754]

i love listening to common sense. its in short supply lately. and this one of the few places to find it. thanks randy and kathy

[@rpmorrisjr]

Always a pleasure. I trust the new year is beginning wonderfully and safely for you guys.

[@jasonweishaupt1828]

I tripled the life of my brass for my SOCOM when I switched from civilian brass to mil spec. I had to adjust the load down 2 grains as well.

[@mikeleschber33]

I always enjoy hearing you speak. You remind me of someone I knew who was very knowledgeable like you. It is like I am sitting and talking to him. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. God bless you and the Mrs.

[@paulsimmons5726]

Great explanation of cases. At least now I have a greater understanding and appreciation for the European brass and why it’s more costly. Thank you for sharing your experience, it helps to understand the why’s that many of us have!

[@raymondminks1772]

I enjoy the way you separate fact from fiction Mr. Shelby. Merry Christmas again Old Timer.

[@walkercustoms]

Love the wisdom you share with us. Thank you.

[@jeffreyhall838]

Another great video Randy! ...Thanks

[@nickmcgee6438]

Randy, as always I love to hear your insight on all these great topics. Thank you for sharing and keep on letting people know the truth!

[@daflea66]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom in these videos

[@nebraskaman8247]

Great video!

[@jimpalmer4916]

The 338 winchester magnum is an absolute killer. Firing a 200 grain hot core bullet at 2900 fps plus a few will do in anything inside of 500 yards with appropriate placement. I still can't believe that this combination doesn't destroy enough meat to mention if it doesn't hit bone. I highly recommend cartridges of this class for the longer shots on the biggest game in the beautiful United States of America.

[@paulhazel5754]

the 200 hornady works to

[@olegkrikunov5218]

Как приятно послушать умного человека, спасибо за познавательное!

[@formulajoe2]

I’d like to see Erik Cortina interview Randy on his channel.

[@terrywagner7551]

I agree with your comment 100% he’s cartridge companies today are trying to reinvent the wheel all of these cartridges have been tried years ago and just have been forgotten

[@jgvermeychuk]

Thanks for your knowledge and experience. Do you recommend annealing the brass with every reload? I load my own 270 WSM with 140 gr Nosler Partition for hunting. I use Lapua or Norma brass whenever I can get it.

[@TheRealGunsmith]

No. Thanks for watching.

[@alinawazsyedkirmani2696]

As always out of this world stay blessed with your loved ones Aameen

[@Ben-Wah]

I would love to hear your detailed take on the 220 Swift.

[@chrisjarvis4449]

i have been told that if you draw a line along the angle of the shoulder of a cartridge from both sides were the two lines cross [the middle of the X] if the middle of the X is inside the neck of the case that cartridge will have less throat erosion due the the focal point of the burning powder . lets say i 6mm pem. inside vs 243 win outside . your idea on that.

[@aidos99x]

I would like to see all of your wildcat cartridges with dimensions. I would also like to seem them in comparison to other cartridges in a photo. Great videos! - From young Aussie shooter & reloader.

[@TheRealGunsmith]

My wildcat cartridges are proprietary information, and since there is no one making the brass for them [I've asked] it won't be put out there. To get the cartridges I developed there were up to 13 steps to forming the cases. Thanks for watching from Down Under.

[@jasonbroom7147]

It's interesting hearing you put a lifetime of reloading, shooting, and gunsmithing into a short discussion like this. It can't be easy trying to condense those concepts down into just a few words that convey what you have learned over the years. With that said, you mention a lot of different aspects of cartridge design, along with other factors that influence overall performance, but your main point was that you have an ax to grind when it comes to the 7 PRC. You just don't like it, because of how it is being marketed, but then again, there is nothing "wrong" with that cartridge design. Maybe there's nothing wrong with older designs, either, and you don't like that Hornady (or whomever) is claiming old cartridges weren't designed well. That doesn't mean the new cartridges are bad, which is what you're basically trying to say, here. If you go all the way back to the line of Newton cartridges...he had it right. No rims, no belts, no rebated heads...just good case diameter and a rimless design for each cartridge. If that's what newer cartridges are doing, then that's great! Don't hate them just because they got it right.

[@SteveM0732]

Not to mention that it is a whole lot easier to get into a 7 PRC or 6.5 PRC than some wildcat only chambered by a select few gunsmiths with load data only for one powder and a few bullets and no option to buy ammo. The marketing may be misleading or even dishonest, but lowering the bar for entry is a big deal for the average gun buyer. I can buy a 28 Nosler or 7mm PRC Savage pre-fit barrel, go/no go gauges, a set of dies, some brass, and be up and running with a set of reliable load data (Hornady and Hogdon have 7PRC load data available for free on their websites) in 2-3 months for little cost. What does it cost and how long does it take to do the same in 7mm-404 WE?

[@dawwlo]

Bunch of BS my friend from your side since don't listen and pay attention to whole video and exact words used, but if it makes you happy to be a sheep then go for it...Randy is honest and straight foreward with facts, manufacturers are reinventing the wheel and you're buying this nonsense😂

[@jasonbroom7147]

@@dawwlo - Randy is obsessed with the 7 Rem Mag. There's nothing new under the sun when it comes to cartridge design and manufacture. I've probably forgotten more about cartridges and handloading than you'll ever know. Get back to me after you've designed your own one-of-a-kind wildcat round, signing all the checks and going through all of the rigamarole, knowing that in the end it will be just another round, like so many others.

[@dawwlo]

@@jasonbroom7147 Good for you, now I understand why you need another round to eventtualy be forgotten in time

[@jasonbroom7147]

@@dawwlo - That's the point, though... ALL rounds will be forgotten, in time. The only thing priceless is knowledge, and I gained a ton of it developing a true wildcat. Life is too short to whine when newer, better things (like the 7 PRC) come around. If you understood why belted cartridges exist, you'd also understand their limitations and why a beltless round, with a larger case diameter, is actually a better design. When a very experienced, but stuck in his ways gunsmith can't grasp that value, it's kind of sad, frankly.

[@emanennis8992]

I'd like for you to do one on Winchester's failed WSSM rounds 223,243 25 WSSM I have one in 223 and 25 just because I've been loading since I was 12 and like odd ball rounds plus their relatively cheap because ammo is pretty much non existent

[@briankelly2886]

👍

[@randlerichardson5826]

Hey Randy sir

[@wyattgraham5711]

There is a lot of anecdotal information given. There could be a lot more quantitative data explained to support the claims made. With the rockwell tester example, good information, but there is missing information regarding consistency. What’s the standard deviation of the hardness for each brand? What case was tested? At what point in the case was the hardness tested? Were there multiple points on each case tested? And there are more and more questions that could be asked to help us learn more beyond what you say. I would say this circled the bush a lot when it comes to having a consistent shooting rifle. With a case, what lends to more consistentcy? Is it the shoulder angle? Is it the volume and type of powder? What is the quantifiable evidence to support each claim? The anecdotal may be true, I do believe that today’s average shooter is looking for more of the quantifiable data to back up each of these claims. Going forward could you show it somehow please?

[@TheRealGunsmith]

Hardness of the cases is always measured at the head. Always. Thanks for watching.

[@jerrymartin5100]

Mr. Selby, thank you for so much excellent information, I'm wanting to load 270 Winchester with 150gr partition bullets, what powder would you suggest.

[@terryhenry8243]

IMR 4350 OR IMR 4831. either are perfect for the .270 Winchester. There are others as well but those 2 are the old standbys.

[@1HeavyHitr]

RL26

[@terryhenry8243]

@@1HeavyHitr Yep, if you can find it, R26 is hot!!

[@nickcannon1558]

He would tell you there are three he feels work the best and those three are Hodgdon’s H4831 then Reloader 22 and lastly the very best Reloader 26.

[@terryhenry8243]

@@nickcannon1558 Yep, you are probably right. H4831 will give the slowest velocity with that bullet if that's a concern. R22 is pretty temp sensitive and R 26 is great but very difficult to come by, at least right now. Good call!!

[@Peter-od7op]

Randy why is the would not listening to you. You are rt on. I reload im 66 still learning. Ty

[@psubond]

Love the videos. I hope to have you build a rifle for me one day (can't do it right now financially, but i will one day)

[@vdog4799]

I just bought some 38 spcl brass. Starline. Is it normal for the trim length to vary by .005 or thereabouts? It's my first time buying brass and I thought it was a bit sloppy. I have to trim alot of them

[@michaeldoe4805]

I shoot revolvers, and shoot centerfire bullseye competitions with revolvers also. Variation is normal, you may want to fire them at least once, then run them thru your sizing die and then measure several to find minimum length and trim all to that size. If you are shooting target loads with low pressures, you may never need to trim again, and that starline brass will last pretty much forever. I taper crimp my target revolver loads, so little variations in case length have little to no significance. But if you are shooting high pressure magnums, the cases will stretch, some more than others, you will find yourself needing to trim that batch of brass, especially roll crimping to the bullet groove. Case length matters if you are trying to align that heavy roll right into the groove in the bullet. Lee makes oversize sizing dies, or you can send your sizing die for them to open up a little. This way it will be much less effort during sizing and will work the brass less. Depends on your chambers, of course.

[@vdog4799]

@@michaeldoe4805 Thank you. That was really helpful. I have the Lee Factory crimp die and that taper crimps. Im shooting low pressure target stuff. I was thinking that the variance of length would affect crimp strentgh in the longer pieces and result in less accuracy. If they are not that sensitive thats so much nicer. I havent done all the testing yet just figuring whats best to do. I didnt want to load the brass once then trim it if I should be frimming from the beginning for exact equal length

[@TheRealGunsmith]

I don't believe .005 to be of any great matter. Thanks for watching.

[@steemerxaxon1643]

When are you going to make the PERFECT BRASS for the HUNTING CARTRIDGE across the board

[@nickgironda8932]

If a shooter has the equipment and practices out to those distances AND is confident… why not? Not in SC or IL or MI perhaps. Out west? Go on, take and make the shot!

[@TheRealGunsmith]

Because there are so many variables in wind currents between the hunter and the animal and a shot just a bit off can mean the difference between a dead animal or a wounded one that the hunter may or may not recover. Have fun shooting at targets that don't bleed and suffer if you are off a bit because all of the gadgets and gidgets most "hunters" now rely on, can't tell anyone the difference in air currents. An example. From my place to 800 yards are several gullies and a creek bed, and by looking closely at grass movement it is possible to see that the wind is not consistently blowing the same direction or velocity at all, but changes drastically by terrain. So, yes, all the practicing at the range is all fine and good and a must. But shooting at gongs or paper is NOT the same as taking a chance on a bullet placement not going exactly where you think it is. And the gong or paper can't take a step in that fraction of time it takes for impact. Our majestic animals deserve better than being ego targets. Thanks for watching.

[@mikesauer7775]

Loading mixed brass for 308 and 223 brass is problematic. Shoulder measurements in same brand,different vintage and shot counts can vastly change in consistently. Even after annealing. I've rejected brass for going .005-.010 shorter and shoulders were no longer straight but radiused

[@dhoward8702]

Although we do not know each other you are Welcome at my camp fire any time ….

[@mark-wn5ek]

I love it…..that’s a bunch of crap!!!!

[@NCWoodlandRoamer]

I can’t believe you suggest shooting animals out to 700 yards after speaking out so much against this long range ‘hunting’ bs.

[@Peter-od7op]

Randy is not your average guy. Vmost average guy keep it under 500

[@NCWoodlandRoamer]

@@Peter-od7op So it’s do as I say not as I do. Got it.

[@jimpalmer4916]

@NC Woodland Roamer this man ain't kidding. He's got just as much experience if not more than some smart alek culedo ever had.

[@123tl]

He claims not to promote long range hunting, while saying he builds long range hunting rifles, go figure

[@terrycalvert7812]

I saw a Hornady podcast a cpl weeks back where they were saying that unless your doing 30 shot groups with any particular load factory or reloads that you don’t have any idea of the capability of that rifle load combination! I have always worked with 3 shot groups every from the start and iv handloaded my own rounds for about 25 years now and have never had the problems that they were explaining in this podcast you will have if your not doing this 30 shot test. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this and how you feel about the 3 shot 5 shot 10 shot 30 shot or how ever many shot group testing to validate a particular load! Would make a wonderful video to hear you talk on this aspect! I have done tests something like this over the years where I have set up a target at 200 yards and left it there for several weeks and come home after work everyday and fire one cold bore shot at that target and maybe taken 15 or 20 shots at that target over that number of days and iv have never seen a load I have loaded shoot a .25 or maybe even .50 inch group with three shots shoot a 1.5 or 2 inch groups as the number of shots went up unless iv heated the barrel up after say maybe 8 9 maybe 10 shots just to see the effect with a particular rifle load combo. Hornady claims a gun shooting .5 3 shot groups shoot 2.5 even up to 3or 4 inch 30 shot groups I could see this if they were fired one after the other non stop but who shoots like that? NO ONE!! I don’t even shoot my gun 30 times without cleaning it after 15 shots maybe 20 or 25 shots for something smaller like my 223 or 22-250 everything else is cleaned after 15 shots!! Anyway curious as to your take on the subject. My take is I think there a bullet company and sure they want everyone to think they need to shoot 30 shots to verify a load because they will sell more bullets that way. I think it’s a claim to make the gullible shoot more of there bullets!!

[@chadperry4021]

They admitted early on it was their data they were sharing and their methods were infeasible to the average shooter. 😊

[@terrycalvert7812]

@@davidsalsedo Agree with you 100% just look at the benchrest and F-class crowd if they have a barrel that isn’t shooting .25 or less and many expect half that that barrel is no good to them and onto the next one. Those shooters agg in the 1s and low 2s over a whole season hundreds of shots and Hornady trying to say that’s not possible how is it not they do it every single day. I have several guns some of which are even factory rifles that consistently shoot down in the low .2s sometimes even smaller and I never once had to shoot 30 50 or 100 rounds to verify these loads were as good as they are. Now I have seen times when I may work a load say in December when it’s 20 degrees out and that be a 3 tenth load then shoot it on a 80 degree day in June and that load will be then a 6 tenth load but as soon as the cooler weather rolls around it’s right back to normal. Hornady is a good company I think I shoot some of there bullets the interlock the and the new CX bullet good bullets but when your dealing with people and a company that will feed you a line of shit just as quick as anything you have to be able to read through the hype of say a new cartridge. Understand ballistics and that one cartridge with less powder can’t possibly push bullets faster than one with more case compacity all things equal. Hornady has made a boat load of money since the creedmoor with lies and false advertising and then I saw that podcast I thought come on Hornady more lies and playing on the gullibility of your customers that don’t know any better makes me wonder if the bullets of there’s that I have been using if I will continue to use!! I don’t see any other bullet and cartridge manufactures making these wild claims look at nosler and there line if cartridges they have there not out there every day bashing everything that is competition for the cartridges they know they made some great rounds and they let the end user do there advertising because I feel word of mouth makes a much stronger impression on someone than hyped up false advertising!!

[@davidsalsedo]

Not excepting the existence of a .250 gun is an error. Saying no gun is .250 aggregate is like saying; No man is a four minute mile runner aggregate. During the life of the barrel or a marathon aggregate test maybe not just like during the life of a man or a marathon run maybe not but for long periods in between to deny the possibility of a four minute mile or the existence of a quarter minute barrel is obviously an error. Benchrest guys do it and better as a standard to compete these days. As do track stars running the mile these days. A determined disposition to reject objective truth is almost the norm of human existence these days. Years ago there were philosophers that discussed the objective existence of universals and particulars. Plato and those who adhere to his philosophy are followers of the universals. However a student of Plato by the name of Aristotle showed the error of not recognizing the existence of particulars and the procession to know things through simple syllogism; A diagram from particulars to universal. Aristotle understood the importance of not denying either but what we could come to understand now as subordinate autonomies. One is foundational and necessary the other is specific to a particular. Erik is a man (correct particularparticular)