Unboxing the TRUTH on Haggis Pinball - Part 1: The Customer Experience

Cary begins this series with getting feedback from a couple of customers that had a less than desirable experience with their Haggis game. This info will tee up an upcoming episode going over their issues at the factory.
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[@CaryHardy]

FACTS ARE STILL COMING OUT. SOME INFO IN THIS VIDEO IS ALREADY OBSOLETE.

[@tyarnold4088]

@CaryHardy more people need to be like you and expose bad people like this. You should be at 100k subscribers in my opinion. Keep up the good work!

[@IanJacobyandcompany]

Honestly the most amazing part of this video is you found the most reasonable man in pinball to interview. Super interesting, balanced reporting here. Love the series so far.

[@seangriffin5644]

Sounds like Flippen Out is honest and a first class operator!!

[@gopooalreadyplease5842]

I will always give zach my money. He is a great guy

[@blawicki]

The real takeaway here is how amazing FlipNOut was throughout all of this. Thanks Greg and Zach for being pillars of the hobby.

[@Wolfanoz]

I always go to them or Cointaker. Chris and Melissa are great people as well.

[@johngr34]

We were the laser cutters for haggis. Not sure if we were the only one, but they were still ordering parts from us mid to end of June. They did owe a fair amount beginning of the year and went on a payment system and had paid what they owed by the time they ordered the last lot from us and paid that bill as well.

[@dugmar01]

This is why I bought my Pulp Fiction with Zach. True enthusiast and outstanding customer support.

[@gwildor8543]

Great production on this series. Also, kudos to Zach at Flip ‘n Out for going above and beyond. It seems Haggis wanted to do the right thing and then things got away from them and then went to the wrong side.

[@ElGatoLoco698]

I gotta give you extra credit on this video. You went above and beyond. Great video man.

[@retrodave79]

In the 80s and 90s many spanish pinballs came with an "special" type of playfield, something similar to Haggis idea, some kind of methacrylate with the art printed in the inside, and sandwiched with a very bad particle board (waaaay cheaper than actual wood). After 40 years most of those playfields are still close to perfect, only the ones exposed to direct sun light suffered the same problem you see on Haggies pinballs...

[@madmack_back_to_the_arcade]

that's how it is! search for the manufacturer INDER, for example. You find machines with more than 300,000 games, and 40 years later you polish methacrylate and the playfield is PERFECT I had several of this pinballs.

[@damonddannaldson4677]

Cary this is great work! The video was done top notch and I really appreciate what you’re doing!!! Gotta say William is so awesome to talk with every month and I’m so glad he was able to be a part of this also; as his being new to the hobby and just jumping in feet first into such an awesome collection!!! Great job and thank you for what you’re doing for the hobby.

[@davidcohn7531]

Steve Ritchie talked about dimpling and said it is really not a big deal because after a while there is so much dimpling on the play field it evens itself out. This doesn't effect the play in any significant way, and all pinball machines dimple is basically what he said. He is a pinball legend and has no reason to lie about that, so I believe him. I really hate to see good people get scammed like this. I think a lot of people saw this coming, which is good thing.

[@CaryHardy]

@@davidcohn7531 It would level itself out if the dimples occur all over a playfield - they don't. They only occur where the ball lands from being airborne. Which isn't all over the playfield.

[@jussss100]

i spoke to Damian out side his factory 6 months after the release -saying if there is a fathom mermaid up for grabs i would be interested-because i missed out on mermaid was so exited talking to the man ,then he walked off with head down -hands in his pockets -now i look back back -and relised -his thinking how the fk -how the fk am i going to do this-i thought it was odd at the time ,but . thought what ever ,then upgraded to classic-then three years later after promising all would be finished i paid ,and when i paid in Jan 24 talking to his sister i was saying how good centuaur was -she said do you want ti put a deposit down -i did not

[@fragpinball5194]

My engineering experience would be telling you it happened because of SHRINKAGE. So in the Heat, the 98% cured Laminate playfield timber shrinks another 0.00xx% and the Plastic doesn't shrink. If I had to FIX one, I'd strip it and separate the two layers, spray Contact Adhesive on the Wood surface, then lay the plastic back down CAREFULLY/EXACTLY like doing Cabinet Decals, then replace the hardware using a torque driver set appropriately, after a few days for the C.A. to bond/set (under clampage; sandwich pressure/plates, playfield glasses would do). That would give a positive contact across the whole surface, and with Good Quality non-volatile contact glue and the Playfield now well cured, I'd say there wouldn't be too much further problems with it. I thought the Reinvent the Wheel playfield thing was a bit dumb from the beginning. It's what sank them besides the scamming. They should have just done what everyone else does re. printing, and just printed it on some good quality Hardwood Eucalyptus laminate, which is much more affordable here than Maple, and generally on par I'd say. I don't know what they were using for the timber though, but it's pretty clear that it Shrinks, so EVERYONE may well end up with it EVENTUALLY. I was in the deposit and 1.5k on top. Lost my job and couldn't pay invoice since mid 2023. Lots of people in Australia couldn't Pay thier Invoices I think you'll find. Became Jobless due to 'Mandates', and couldn't pay for something they could have afforded if things hadn't Changed in the world. I could easily afford to have paid them, before suddenly losing my job due to non compliance with 'insane stuff'. It's a con.

[@DanSchuhrke]

This is a great deep dive cary. Thanks for this!

[@Jesselovespinball]

Awesome. The amount of time and work you have and will put into this is fantastic. You really knocked it out of the park and look forward to more . Thank you Cary !

[@WarriorTier]

Great video! Lots of work to get this made, great job!

[@adamaglionby7438]

Shipping crate standard plywood and aluminium flightcase, cnc cut foam inserts. Used for everything from stage lighting to medical equipment. Specialist turn one round for any odd shape within couple of days. May have origiinally built for shipping prototype playfields around.

[@RafConUSMC]

Great video! Well done! Nice tease at the end! Can’t wait for the other episodes! This one is ready to go!!

[@tyarnold4088]

If he told me to pay in full and in 6 weeks you will have your machine. Then give me nothing. I would be buying tickets to Australia. Im 100% serious. I swear to GOD!

[@ThemMightyPies]

Sure tough guy.

[@sailingsvzara]

I wanted a Fathom and Centary so badly. :( I would have been a customer.

[@nellen55]

Zech seems like the most stand up guy

[@Wolfanoz]

Great video, my man. Sad that people invest their money when quality, much less guarantees, go out the window. Zach is a great dude. He and Cointaker (Chris and Melissa) are all great honest people.

[@Lorenz.Machine]

Good to see the truth behind it exposed 👌 Just don't go ahead and write off Australian manufacturing because of that tool. He was clearly inexperienced in manufacturing.

[@stringerfilms.]

"Huge shout-out to American Pinball"

[@MidniteClimax]

Excellent video Cary. Glad you can see now, like I said in your previous video, Covid was not a big contributor to Haggis going under. In fact, it was likely the best thing that could have happened to them

[@ExpressoMechanicTV]

This is a really sorry affair. When it comes to the build quality issues, it puts me in mind of the photos you see in fast food restaurants, showing their food. When you get what you order, it isn't quite as pristine as you have been led to believe. As for the people who went direct and never saw a machine, my heart goes out to them. Terrible situation.

[@bradwilliams1691]

I guess that I'm one of the lucky ones. I only live 20 minutes away from thier factory in Melbourne, Australia. So I just went over and tried a Celts for myself. At first I had a few teething problems which Damien handled under warranty, but since then I've had no problems whatsoever. Damien always came across as a straight shooter to me but after watching this, I'm not so sure. Feeling so sorry for those people that have lost money on this, I hope that they will get something in the long run.

[@robertmachen4364]

Great video Cary! New company, foreign country (to me I'm in the US), no track record of quality or consistency. Who buys a game sight unseen, with no games in stock from a company like this? Not to mention this has happened more than once in the world of pinball.

[@peparcell]

This is another horrible story for the Pinball community. I'm sad for the people who trusted Haggis to deliver their pin. I got in to pinball in 2016. I've purchased three NIB games and I will never buy a NIB pin again. To see your investment drop 3k or more is not exciting to me. Thanks Cary for your support and kindness to the people who love pinball. I don't think their will ever be a new start up company in pinball again after this failure with Haggis and the other companies who have failed to deliver a pinball machine and the people who are out thousands of dollars.

[@lucky6666]

Only buy a game you're gonna keep then you lose nothing and have the best game you can. But the best game is for people with money. Save money by looking for used deals! Some risk of course but pinside helps with that...

[@zillelben8742]

Do you really believe that there will not be another start-up in pinball that takes customers' money without giving them what they paid for? 11 days ago, Tom from Foxcitiespinball posted a concise video listing at least 5 potential pinball start-ups that committed similar misguided red flags as Haggis, and in the end wound up ripping many customers off of thousands of dollars, and yet there were still a significant number of long time collectors that were willing to ignore history and jump in to take the same risk, only to be ripped off in the end once again. These ill-fated startups are able to take advantage of the abundant passion & emotions that fuel this great hobby that also motivates the willingness to take an expensive risk for the now unfortunate victims who were baited by impressive prototypes. It's a sad story as old as time, as once ambitious, yet inexperienced startups continue to turn good honest pinheads into regretful suckers. I hope they all eventually see refunds & justice.

[@peparcell]

@lucky6666 I agree with your statement but my wife wanted Halloween and Scooby-Doo when they were announced. We should have waited for the used ones to become available. No more NIB games for us. My wife daughter starts college this fall and we are out of cash 💸 💰

[@lucky6666]

@@peparcell ooo starting college, 😶. All I'll say is that might be a worse bet than a pinball machine.

[@ssdobbins]

Dateline with Cary Hardy! A new pinball genre....Investigative Journalism. For what it's worth, I loved this episode! I almost bought a used Mermaid Edition at a ridiculously low price, but a wiser person said.... Don't do it! So glad I listened.

[@doctoroctos]

I don’t believe Damien took deposits to get rich. Taking $1.4M (pinside estimate) from 60+ people is not strategic scamming. Having 100 people pissed at you is a terrible idea, and $1M is not enough to hide forever. He was trying to keep the company dream alive by taking funds and buying materials and time. The real issue is poor quality, money mismanagement, and deception in requesting people to pay full amount when machines were nowhere near complete.

[@AdamGtr86]

Turner has the same escrow pre-order: "Additionally, deposit money will be separated from operating funds and will not be used for parts or other business expenses until your machine has shipped." The good ole "we don't even need to touch the money, but we are still asking for it for no reason". Buy now.

[@pinballshenanigans]

Congrats on almost 10k subs!!!

[@mikefitzee8189]

awesome piece of journalism.really enjoyed this video. Its shocking to see the wrath of angst and financial pain that has come as a result of Haggis. I feel so sorry for all involved. Looking forward to part 2.

[@carmoney4444]

I am one of those who ordered a Mermaid Edition, first paying the deposit and eventually wiring the entire balance to Haggis. I know it's unlikely I will ever recover anything, but I am wondering if there is anything I can do to receive my piece of whatever the liquidation generates. Has any information been released about how the creditors' claims will be handled?

[@CaryHardy]

@carmoney4444 I doubt you will see any money. Just sayin..

[@chairmannow2297]

Watching you describe the p.f. lift issue, etc, just adds to me not wanting to open my NIB Mermaid from early last year and instead let it go.

[@jumbosinbad360]

It’s not the first time a pinball manufacturer has done this…. Skit-b, Heighway, Deeproot, Zidware.. The list goes on.

[@kevindurigon5433]

Great interview, Cary! Also, I closed my eyes, and the first guy (AC/DC) sounded just like Nick Saban.

[@jurgenfrey1570]

…I also love the dramatic music and the black and white scenery

[@Rich_Ice]

Note to self. Never buy a foreign pin.

[@stevenbowser3308]

Where did you get the lights fir youe Foo Speakers!?!?!

[@CaryHardy]

@@stevenbowser3308 I have a video on my channel going over install and everything.

[@Mo_Ketchups]

Zach is a HERO. 🤘🤟 C.H., you’ve really outdone yourself. This is outstanding on all counts. 👏👏 P.S. Bet Zach didn’t predict the irony of his company name before this. 🥸

[@-COZ]

Very interesting video-

[@JK-fv9xk]

the Cary Hardy expose’ 😂❤🎉 #1!

[@gregdunn5518]

Awesome stuff. Looking forward to the next episode.

[@stringerfilms.]

Love the 1up dramatization!!! 😂😂😂

[@chrisjsmithtx]

Excellent Video Cary!

[@ScottyPinball]

Great job Cary!

[@dougpdx76]

Great work Cary!

[@BootsORiley]

Oh boy

[@kevgret]

I keep hearing zac and flipping out be mentioned.. what do they have to say about of this?

[@CaryHardy]

@@kevgret that episode will come later

[@Johnny-Five]

I wonder how the people who were contracted to make the parts for those machines feel about this whole deal.

[@CaryHardy]

@@Johnny-Five Most of the parts they made in house. The other parts people are owed some money.

[@Johnny-Five]

@@CaryHardy I just hope it doesn’t make it hard for other new companies to get contracted parts for their machines due to Haggis.

[@dukesamouce5463]

Why don't you start one on how Pinball Brothers has been screwing all who bought (paid in full FEB 24) Alien toppers. Most still have not received theirs with the distributers now having them IN STOCK!

[@bohsekarl9854]

by the look and sound of things,,haggis new things were not going good cash wise !,,but still taking deposit money !,,,just wandering if anyone is feeling (deep rooted)

[@gearheaddroppings]

I would be willing to buy one of these at a deep discount and fix it myself.

[@DeathSavePinballStreaming]

Is this entire series just going to be shilling for flipnout? Kidding. Holy smokes the production quality of this is top notch. Can’t wait to see the next part.

[@chadcowan8130]

Definitely a reason Damien isn't making any statements. He knows he is in deep shit after this whole ruse. I'm sure the advice of his counsel is to keep his mouth shut.

[@sadboi7537]

Excellent interview. This really opened the floods gates, information wise. Feel bad for Zach having to take a massive bath on possibly having to refund everyone. What an absolutely massive shit show. Thankfully I never pulled the trigger on a Fathom.

[@neilmcrae1]

Something wrong with your playout it goes a wierd black and white every now and again.

[@TiltingT]

Wow, it keeps getting deeper...had no idea they were shipping games in this condition until after all of this came out... In a world where "sustainability" is considered with anything you manufacture and a key step to successful business plans, it seems they completely ignored it.. Think you nailed Cary, this manufacturing process was never sustainable and they created their own downfall. All the time they spent in developing these playfields while Hardtops are being used everyday with no major issues whike still not showing any signs of dimples onthe ones I have seen and they can still use stock parts!

[@tnpatriot7468]

Well, this guy only ok with this since he was made largely whole.

[@craigcomparato9115]

All playfields dimple, it’s fine, everything ever done to stop this fails. Play it 3,000 times and it will be smooth again

[@lucky6666]

Those criminals were put on that island for a reason 😈

[@tonymangraviti8114]

lol 😂 You think it’s an island for criminals? That’s a cheap shot! There’s actually allot of people down under from the pinball community who lost thousands $$$ on their season passes and games not received also.😢

[@lucky6666]

@@tonymangraviti8114 haha, yes I'm joking. I love outcasts and outlaws! Odin owns you all 🤘. 💩 happens.

[@loubilly]

​@lucky6666 South Australia (where in from) was a free-settled state (like USA), the rest of the states started as penal colonies..... just sayin lol

[@bradwilliams1691]

​@@loubillyNew South Wales & Tasmania were the only penal colonies on mainland Australia.

[@joecaglitz8518]

I have to honest, these 2 themes as remakes do nothing for me. My money was never in danger here. Stark reminder though when an actual good machine comes out (IE AIW) beware. Not paying an FN penny unless the machine has been tested and 🎉a distributor has it in stock. You can ALWAYS buy anything on the 2nd hand market, nothing less s sold out ever

[@jussss100]

great job Cary, i am one of the unfortunately ones ,paid up. in Aus