Cat Genetics for Writers & Artists part 9: Fur Length & Textures [CC]

[@Frostfern94]

As a Brit, hearing you pronounce Devon as “De-von”- I don’t. If it helps at all, it’s pronounced “Devin” or “dev-un/dev-n” btw (depends on where you’re from. There are SO MANY different accents in the UK), since the Devon Rex originated from the place in South West England, Devon, which is pronounced “Devin” or “dev-un/dev-n”. At least to everyone I’ve heard say it.

[@littlehungrywarrior]

Ahh, it's named after a place. Makes sense - thanks! :D

[@arrawolf]

Thank you for saying this

[@doe4003]

Never knew lykoi was so painful for the cat- thank you for education on that, as well as all these genes.

[@prcervi]

i feel like i shouldn't be surprised that a hair pattern like that come about in such a way, but hot damn is this the first time i'd heard of how the cats get that way

[@rq1nzor]

8:39 ive never seen a cat that looks more like an old man than bro

[@phoenixpheothers3525]

It's so great to see someone else so passionate about both genetic exploration AND the health of the animal. Seeing the reptile scene and the overabundance of ball pythons with morphs like Spider, super cinnamon, champagne, etc, continue to be bred and sold en mass as if there's nothing wrong with them. Just like you described with the Lykoi and its skin conditions, Spider balls will inherently have neurological issues (the "wobble") that many have attempted and failed to breed out because it's tied to the gene. It may be less severe in certain individuals, but no "resistance" can be bred and yet the morph remains hugely popular. Rant over, basically, you're doing fantastic and I greatly appreciate you ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@LavenderGPCBF]

I’ve only known Lykoi cats as “sparse-haired” and have a character named Mist who is a Lykoi. I didn’t know life was so hard for the poor guys :(

[@ZoeHerron-hf7zt]

I can't wait for the day when someone looks at a hairless cat and goes "ahh, a sphinx!" Only for me to laugh maniacally and say "no you ignorant fool, for that creature has whiskers, making it but the majestic Devon Rex." Then they will stare at me with immense annoyance as I look at them like an idiot.

[@JudgementJury]

So in addition to genetics we talk about breeding ethics? YES! L (short) > l (long hair) N (normal) > hr (sphinx) > re (devon rex) Hi = Ha (Hi increases the amount of hair, Ha decreases it) Rubberbald is scary (WHY DO YOU HAVE SUCH A HIGH INFANT MORTALITY RATE?) Slk > N (might be Slk = N but only one source) Cornish Rex (N > cr) German rex breed has the same gene as Cornish. LP > N (Bec lp makes it harder) Oh boy, Lykois. Such an unethical breed. N > Ly. It has mutated independently several times in the world.

[@JudgementJury]

Punnet square time 1. Normal phenotype. Devon carrier. X Sphynx phenotype. Devon carrier. 50% normal, 25% Sphynx, 25% Devon. 2. Heterozygous Hi/Ha parents. 25% Hi/Hi kittens. 25% Ha/Ha kittens. 50% Hi/Ha kittens. (I forgot to take notes on Donskoy dominance with normal. So this is just the modifier)

[@JudgementJury]

Also definitely agree with the ending. Even if stuff is sad and upsetting, it's important to be educated on topics. Guess for the next episode: Ear floppiness OR cat size genetics.

[@littlehungrywarrior]

@@JudgementJury I'm glad, and I always love to see people taking notes/following along in the comments! Would you like an answer or would you rather wait & see if you're right? ;)

[@JudgementJury]

@@littlehungrywarrior I think I'd rather wait and see. Because it's like a fun surprise that way.

[@prcervi]

the description of rubberbalds brought to mind an show i watched years ago going over rare and weird medical conditions in humans some condition where the skin never got to the stage of developing hair follicles (the most notable trait), and then also didn't properly form sweat pores or nails with a generally terrible ability to thermo regulate also from watching way too many vet shows when x isn't formed properly, y and z need checking to make sure this isn't just part of a bigger mess

[@prcervi]

i'd heard before that long hair was the dominate gene over short hair and as a person with very curly short hair but wavy long hair the answer for laperm is somewhere in the same ballpark i'd expect

[@littlehungrywarrior]

That makes sense! Shorthair/longhair differences in nonstandard hairtypes are interesting. If you have a source for dominant longhair I'd be interested to see it :)

[@prcervi]

@@littlehungrywarrior i had heard it from some video that was doing a warrior cats accurate genetics that was about 5 years old i think? they had mentioned they did their research but weren't an expert so it might've just been a detail they got wrong

[@littlehungrywarrior]

@@prcervi It's possible! I generally don't trust those "warrior cat genetics" videos done by hobbyists; they're very fun but tend to make...a lot of errors lol. but! that doesn't mean they don't sometimes have accurate information. If you can find a source on the interactions between donskoy & longhair loci, do let me know! :3

[@danj8892]

st i c k y y y y y y? ?? ? ? ?

[@sarahloomis2034]

These naming conventions are stressing me out. Please cat fanciers, I'm begging you to pick trait names that are different than breed names and give them 1 or 2 letter allele designations.

[@littlehungrywarrior]

I'm with you 100%. and man...holy shit I'm researching dog genes for the next series and dogs are SO much worse about this.........

[@Delulu_2]

My cat is half donskoy/half canadian sphynx. And since both of her parents are hairless we expected her to be hairless too, but she strangely has fur. Her fur is like a donskoys but she doesnt have any bald spots. It was confusing at first but now that ik more about cat genetics i understand why. Great videos.

[@Carlie_flower]

Thank you so much for this series ❤️ i just binged them all. You blew me and my husband's minds with the color point color changing stuff 🤯 we just adopted 2 kittens, one is white color point with blue eyes(Cotton) and the other is all black with deep yellowish eyes(Pete). They are from different litters for clarification. Theyre so cute. Pete looks like he has tabby markings "under" all the black, i thought maybe im crazy 😅 maybe not tho! Anywho again thank you so much this was such an interesting watch. Love the warrior cats and actually about to read them to my kids again. Cat genetics are wild! This is all on top of the possibility of multiple fathers for one litter right?? lol

[@rebeccab719]

Have you heard of the Tennessee/Satin Rex? It’s a pretty new breed (like, discovered in 2004), but it’s introduced the satin gene to cats.

[@littlehungrywarrior]

Ooh, I haven't! :O time to look into a new gene!

[@b3nnefits]

The way you pronounced Devon Rex caught me so off guard, because my cat is a Devon Rex and we pronounce it like the name Devin 😂

[@mochamonster6956]

I’ve always pronounced it like the town in wales 💀 (dev-an)

[@Frostfern94]

Because that’s how it’s pronounced. It’s pronounced Devin. It originates from the place Devon in the UK, specifically in South West England, which is pronounced “Devin”

[@vegafantmaier1792]

This was a great video I wonder what secrets the next one will hold. (Ps I have two Laperms and to Cornish rexes their all amazing cats)

[@DaydreamingRatMan]

SCREAMING!!! ITS BACK!!! LETS GOOOOO

[@jiremm]

WDYM THE NEXT EPISODE IS GONNA BE WORSE

[@littlehungrywarrior]

WE'RE GONNA COVER ALL KINDS OF UNETHICAL GENES OH BOOOOOYYYYY

[@rawr1131]

@@littlehungrywarrior I’m kinda excited, not gonna lie.

[@bluewolf6465]

Im going to guess one of them as the Scottish fold i always wonder if the Bone gene that cause the ear to fold is dominant or recessive.@@littlehungrywarrior

[@littlehungrywarrior]

@@bluewolf6465 you'll find out ;)

[@Seeatree]

Fading kitten syndrome is such a sad name D:

[@SpringStarFangirl]

That brown LaPerm looks... it's making me uneasy. It looks too human.

[@skygazer6082]

Thanks for such an informative video, even if the end.. isn't that fun. A few quick questions: Do we have info on how some of these phenotypes interact? As in, La Perm and Selkirk, or Cornish Rex with Devon Rex or Sphynx? (Not planning on using lykois ever.) Are curly whiskers harmful to a cat? They seem to pop up a lot with these breeds, so I'm just wondering how they're different than normal whiskers. Is all the genetic info for "Hi" and "Ha" present even if the cat is N/N? So then, if it is, they would be able to pass it on to any Hrbd/N kittens. And finally, do "L" and "l" affect the hairbald gene? You gave specific hair lengths for all the modifier genes, so that's probably a no, right? Thanks so much for this series, it's a literal life saver, and I'm excited for and dreading the next episode, based on that outro. My guess is we're talking about eyes and ears.

[@littlehungrywarrior]

Aw, thanks! I'm glad I've been helpful to you :3 >I wasn't able to find anything on how the different fur genes interact :( I would assume the hairless phenotypes are epistatic to any fur type but that's just a guess. >As far as I can tell, curly whiskers are fine as long as they don't break off/aren't brittle. I haven't found anything saying curly whiskers are painful or severely limit natural behaviors. Even wildtype (non-special-fur) cats will sometimes get curly whiskers from age, and they seem to be okay. I'll update you if I learn otherwise. >The locus that has Hi & Ha as alleles exists in every cat, we just don't see their effects unless the cat displays a donskoy phenotype. >I don't know; I couldn't find any data on interaction between L & Hrbld.

[@skygazer6082]

@@littlehungrywarrior Thank you! I wish some of the specifics were well documented when they do occur, I'll just do what ever feels fun when I'm drawing. I'm glad the curly whiskers aren't harmful as well, since so many of the breeds have them. That makes sense, I guess it would be weird for every modifier gene to just be missing just because the lightswitch is off. Weird; you think that would definitely be very apparent when comparing hairbald cats.

[@Zer0_Soul]

8:36 WHY DOES THAT CAT LOOK LIKE A HUMAN

[@littlehungrywarrior]

my favorite kind of cat is the kind of cat who looks like a disappointed father

[@rq1nzor]

LMFAOO i literally just commented about this crap!!!! he looks like my fuckin dad

[@rawr1131]

Just for some clarification:are Selkirk LaPerm unethical like Lykois and sphinx?

[@littlehungrywarrior]

Not to my knowledge, as long as the owners are aware of special hair-care needs & keep good grooming schedules. If I learn otherwise I'll update you.

[@ubin6155]

Is the presence of multiple alleles for the recessive longhair gene, rather than a single allele, the reason for cats having an in-between length of fur known as "medium" longhair, or is it due to polygenes?

[@littlehungrywarrior]

As far as I can tell? Both!

[@ubin6155]

@@littlehungrywarrior interesting! thanks

[@sneakybugzz]

Yahoo!!!!

[@leonineKelter]

I don't have a LaPerm, but I have four mixed barn kitties, one of which is long hair. She's a blue tortie beauty, and while most of her fur is long and straight, her tail fur is kinky! I think while this definitely has some kind of genetic root it's also just. Different thickness of fur in different areas of the body will end up being curled differently. Long-furred LaPerm tails might be straighter just because of how they lay on the tail versus the rest of the body?

[@littlehungrywarrior]

Probably! That's so cool about ur cat too :O

[@leonineKelter]

@@littlehungrywarrior thank you! I love her so much. She's got a bunch of weird sinus issues but she's so sweet 💖 Your video was also really helpful and informative! I've loved cats and cat genetics research for a while now, but I've never found such a concise, quick, and informative source! I really love so much of your work here

[@littlehungrywarrior]

@@leonineKelter thank you!

[@eclipsedmoon87]

Would there be any way to have a cat with a localized different fur length? Bc i have an idea for a cat from clan gen. His name is Squirrelstar, so i thought of giving him an extra big fluffy tail like a squirrel. *But he's a shorthair*. So is there any way i could still make it work? If he can't have naturally long tail floof, i can just have him puff up his tail 24/7 bc he's an anxious kitty

[@littlehungrywarrior]

Ooo that's so fun! Personally I'd say he's a chimera lol. unrealistic since there'd be more patches of the longhair genome than just the tail but eh, we can pretend. alt: genetically a shorthair but very thick fur. the tail wouldn't be nearly as poofy as a longhair (tails are the main way to tell between short/longhairs) but my cat's always looks puffed up & anxious even when she's calm bc her hair is thick, despite being short. like...she's visibly a shorthair, she has a shorthair tail, but it's always fluffed.

[@eclipsedmoon87]

@@littlehungrywarrior brilliant! Thank you :D btw I sent you an ask on Tumblr about one of the clan gen cats I actually made a design for that I'd like your thoughts on

[@littlehungrywarrior]

@@eclipsedmoon87 Oh lemme go take a look!

[@eclipsedmoon87]

​@@littlehungrywarrior the solution I went with for the Squirrelstar problem was making him a chimera and giving him long hair tail and long hair chest. Would you like to see him once I finish his design?

[@littlehungrywarrior]

@@eclipsedmoon87 Sure :O my tumblr's linked in the desc, you'll probably have an easier time sending it there than here :3

[@danj8892]

~*softest*~ hair

[@eclipsedmoon87]

Is ginger still rude and doesn't solid correctly on hairless cats? I'd think it would be consistent like that, but I'm designing a solid ginger hairless cat and i need to know if i need to agouti him

[@littlehungrywarrior]

Yep, still consistent :3

[@eclipsedmoon87]

@@littlehungrywarrior (to the ginger allele, not you) curse you ginger for being so rude and not soliding correctly

[@eclipsedmoon87]

​@@littlehungrywarrior good to know. Also, Google has been very unhelpful, do you know what a cream hairless cat looks like? I'm very unfamiliar with hairless cats and Google doesn't help, unless cream looks the same as regular skin color for hairless cats

[@littlehungrywarrior]

@@eclipsedmoon87 Yeah I'm not surprised they look the same pink as white, cream is so light that it might as well just be the same pink tbh

[@eclipsedmoon87]

@@littlehungrywarrior Tansyleg's gonna look weird af then, but that's the way he was generated. Unrelated, Hollyface, the final Alderclan torbie sister, is in your tumblr inbox

[@sparklykittez]

Just curious are you going do other animal genetics? like rabbit or dogs

[@littlehungrywarrior]

I plan on asking people in the last (non-corrections) video asking people what animal they want to see next. We'll see which one ends up being the most popular!

[@sparklykittez]

@@littlehungrywarrior well I loved to see a rabbit genetics series! Also I have a question that relates to that topic that i might make me look like weird lol but you know the show max and ruby right? Well what would they look like if they were genetically accurate? The family of the characters are grandpa bunny & grandma bunny(the grandparents),mr and mrs bunny(the parents) and finally Grace bunny,Oliver bunny,max and ruby(the children) (Feel free to look up each character to see what they look like)

[@littlehungrywarrior]

@@sparklykittez What a fun question! but I'm afraid I haven't familiarized myself with rabbit genetics enough to go into detail on that. Maybe if people want a rabbit series from me, I'll use those characters as examples in punnett squares :3

[@sparklykittez]

@@littlehungrywarrior that would be fun to see in a rabbit genetic series!

[@littlehungrywarrior]

@@sparklykittez I'll count that as a vote towards rabbits!

[@GoldenKitty9]

If I wasn't expecting to be dissapointed I'd be sad after watching this video. At least it basically eliminated one of my two main guesses (Lykoi seems much more unlikely now that I know more about it). Oh well, at least now I know that there's only one contender for "best educated guess I can make about what in tartarus is going on with my cat" and that is that she maybe has some Donskoy ancestors. To give more context: One of my dad's collegues on basically the other side of the country (not a big country but far enough that the same one cat won't be traveling on it's own between both places even if it has no owner) had a breedless regular farm cat who looked very normal get preggers on accident, and noone has the slightest clue as to who the father could be (kittens from the same litter can actually have multiple fathers, this applies to many animals, so that means we have even less of a clue), and the kitten seemed normal, but then when she was about something 4-5 months I think she kinda lost her butt fur and then she slightly got it back when we started feeding her the highest quality gourmet shit we could reasonably afford to buy but it's still so short her butt is about the same nakedness as a sphynx's (she had an even bigger spot before, and it was COMPLETELY hairless) but we can't even prove it had anything to do with the food because we aren't changing her diet and her fur isn't changing either. She has 2 (1 boy 1 girl) kittens that have reached 6 months old and are still completely normal, but 4 (all girls) that we gave away at around the same time we got the mom, so I am not informed about whether those have developed the same issue. She's just kinda... weird. And I can't find any other cat with the same thing online, and I have no idea what's up with her siblings.

[@littlehungrywarrior]

Oh that's really interesting... developmental condition? novel mutation? chronic disease? I'd be very curious if you ever figure it out :O

[@GoldenKitty9]

@@littlehungrywarriorI wanna know what it is, too, let's be confused together? oh btw after that rant thing I forgot for a bit, but I wanna share a theory: If noone has proved that the different lykoi mutations are actually DIFFERENT from each other, and they're recessive, could it maybe just be that a cat a long time ago, that either didn't encounter humans or was written off as diseased (or maybe didn't even express it? If it's possible for them to not be expressed in the original at least when recessive?) mutated it, and it's been floating around gene pools? And only finally was it noticed as a MUTATION when it popped up in someone's kittens?

[@littlehungrywarrior]

@@GoldenKitty9 I believe the lykoi mutations have been proven different from each other, but that theory still works! a lot of recessive mutations stay hidden for generations before they finally "show up" so it's entirely possible that any, or several, or all of those lykoi alleles have been hanging out for a long time indeed :3

[@GoldenKitty9]

@@littlehungrywarrior oh. Well, still! :D I like guessing based on what little I already know about a topic and then being proven either right or wrong, it helps me learn... One of few ways I can learn efficiently seeing as I'm the only thing here that's both from a different planet and does not still look like a ball of adorable fluff. I used to be a cat-like being, but there's so little I knew about earth cats... I even believed the people who said cats divide into shorthair, longhair, and mediumhair. Actually, how DOES that work? I've even seen some cats in real life that had fur a bit too long to be short but a bit too short to be long.

[@littlehungrywarrior]

@@GoldenKitty9 It's a good way to learn! :D Cat fur length is one of those Secret Complexes (like just about any "monogenetic" trait lol). There's a ton of polygenes that affect the exact fluffiness/puffiness, thickness, weight, etc of the pelt. It can give a shorthair cat a fluffy, thick coat that can be mistaken for long, or a longhair cat a droopy, "flat" wet-looking coat that can be mistaken for shorthair :3