What's The Difference Between a V5 and V13 Climber? (in-depth comparison)

[@abattisson]

This is brilliant - the video comparison should be a series. Eye opening seeing a direct comparison and analysis between two climbers really makes taking away workable ideas so much easier.

[@benbobben]

I agree this format is great, I hope you do more like this! I think it would be good aswell for sam to repeat the problems after the comparison even if you just show the parts were the biggest improvements can be made. Its so informative seeing other people being coached!

[@megamisterjimmyb13]

I couldn't agree more!

[@0-Will-0]

Yes, pure gold!

[@drummerjason]

Agreed!

[@hontes]

Agreed. This format is elementary yet genius. I hope there's gonna be more!

[@travisdudley4520]

Definitely would have liked to see Sam's follow-up attempts after seeing Louis' betas.

[@jacoba756]

Agreed

[@wtf9628]

Same I'm a v5 climber but have a few v7s and v8s when I know the betas

[@SleepayGui]

When they just cut straight to the outro after Louis literally told him to try the betas, I couldn’t believe it

[@harryjerks]

Exactly what I was thinking

[@Mr4CS]

YES

[@moritzmunchow1239]

Please make this a series! This is so interesting and helpful as an intermediate climber! ☺️ Maybe even on harder (over the limit) boulders. Seeing a pro do a hard climbs sometimes looks so easy and doable. So having a „normal“ climber to compare and pick apart is super interesting!

[@OnsightGames]

Highest Grade: V8 Weight on 20mm edge for 5 sec: 170% (105 lbs added) Hopefully this helps with your data collection :)

[@pazu2988]

ur a monster man 💪

[@palomeraleon]

Highest grade V8 Weight in 20mm edge for 5 sec: 142% (27kg added). I’m hella weak

[@Beanilikecheeeese]

damn man respect

[@Achlys384]

@@palomeraleonbut u climb v8 thats awesome good shit

[@lenzwe7775]

Highest grade: V9 Total weight on 20mm lattice test rung for 10s: 183% (+60kg) I think that would work out to ~190% for 5s on the BM1000 edges Really nice to see the small differences!

[@lawsong6663]

U need to work on other aspects of ur climbing I think lol

[@TheRealDrusty]

This is the type of content that makes me so enthusiastic to improve. Although I try to record my projects to look for bad technique I can improve, there must be so many things I must miss because of lack of experience or knowledge. would love to see more of this so I can apply it to my own mistakes!!

[@nogard8541]

Would love to see more of this kind of stuff! I would be willing to bet that most of your climbing viewing audience (myself included) is in the V4 - V6 range, so the things that Sam was doing are very relatable, and it's nice to get feedback on how to improve.

[@hkkrach]

Loved this. I'd love to see someone climbing who is weak and how to overcome that (aside from get stronger!). I can't hang on the 20mm edge at all nor do any pull ups, but I climb at V3 or maybe techy V4s. Sometimes it feels like very strong people just don't realise how much they can 'just pull up' when it's needed.

[@muhammadshaikh9927]

ahaha "just pull up bro" 😂

[@TimGallois]

Hahaha it is hard when you're trying to coach a weaker climber and the only thing that comes to your mind is "just pull up!"... not realizing you need a lot of strength to do it. I guess some climbs will always require a lot of strength, but focusing on more techy/delicate climbs will be the forte of a physically weaker climber. Obviously, slabs come to mind as walls that tend to have setting mostly around balance, stretch, and so on. I think there are some good techniques that are relevant to overcome a lack of strength (better use of momentum, maximizing biomechanical advantage by positioning your body correctly, etc), but they're more "case-by-case" than a general statement

[@WeItenspinner]

Yeah, I come from strength training quite recently into climbing and could do V6 pretty easily by just abusing a good hold and pulling me up with one arm. Feels like cheating and burns a lot of strength. So I fall off quite rapidly as I exhaust my energy. When it comes to technique and and foot work, I struggle quite a lot, but get better fast. So raw strength is an advantage, but it also can keep you from learning good technique and hitting a plateau in your learning curve.

[@bibblybopbops441]

I climb V5 and can only hang on a 30mm edge for about 8 to 10 seconds. I can't hang on the 20mm edge at all either. I have by far the weakest fingers of anyone I know climbing at my level, and not my a small margin. I have hyper mobility in my finger joints, so they're naturally weaker, but man I wish I could just magically have strong fingers. I genuinely believe if I had the finger strength of one of my friends climbing the same level as me, I could add a full grade or more to my climbing.

[@WeItenspinner]

@@bibblybopbops441 If you train your hands regularly by climbing or separate, get enough rest (48 h) between and have a good intake in protein and essential fats, your fingers will become stronger and stronger for years. So you will get better and won't reach a plateau for a long time. Just keep going! :)

[@BrettGilmour]

Sharing this type of analysis is helpful. Please do more of these. I'm a V5 climber and I probably can't do a body weight 5 second hang on a 20mm edge. So, I'd like to see these comparisons explore how people get to V5 with their various weaknesses and strengths. And how to improve those specific weaknesses.

[@octaneaandmusic]

I'd struggle at bodyweight too, on the 20mm. I've done a few V7 boulders, mainly V5 though, and sport climbed 7a+. I'm not sure he's a V5 climber TBH, seems like he's got all the strength to be much higher - just technique and confidence.

[@aviduke]

​​​@@octaneaandmusicI agree, if really is a v5 climber that doesn't use fingerboards, must do a ton of weighted pulls to be able to hang over body weight. edit: the next video is v5-v8 climber in 1 session so that says a lot

[@null-0x0001]

Pretty interesting how I also can't do bodyweight on 20mm edge, however I flash half of V6 problems and highest grade was V8 outdoors. I don't train with finger boards. Hangboard performance shouldn't indicate grade, but I'm really interested to see how much correlation there is. The variance is pretty high between campus board vs climbing grade, but I reckon climbing grade would be a good proxy to estimate finger board performance.

[@shadowkiller5667]

I can hang on 20mm edge pretty easily probaly could add some weight and im v5 climber in both boulder and sport but I’ve done one 7a on top rope. So what kind of style do you climb if you can’t hang in 20mm and climb v8 that’s insane to me

[@elihg3827]

The underrated aspect of finger strength is that it gives you more room for error to experiment with different moves and body positions on a climb.

[@DJHighHat]

Loved this! At first I thought the gap between v5 and v13 would be too wide to be interesting, but the analysis/comparison of movement was really helpful.

[@chrisembry3736]

Fantastic video. The side by side comparison is so interesting and shows the difference of confidence over time, mental problem solving over time, efficiency, etc. Terrific.

[@WilliamSurles]

Yes. do more of these. Movement is so key in climbing. Really interesting to see the toe vs heal, and how you can rotate it later. Thats key.

[@emac4d]

it would be nice to see Sam trying the boulders with the new aproach, and see how much he can improve just by changing small things, not just by geting stronger.

[@jimbob9086]

10:50 Every climbing gym needs a chill kitty like that! Also fantastic climbing advice!

[@satellitesam]

As a fellow tall V3-V4 Sam, definitely would love to see more Sam on the channel!

[@marksammon8925]

Would love to see more content like this - I find is really helpful!

[@ixuvia]

This was awesome! As a fairly inexperienced climber, super helpful to see the in-depth breakdown of the technique differences here. I've often noticed that people with more experience than me seem to do the same climbs much more efficiently, but it can be pretty hard to put a finger on what they're actually doing differently. Would love to see more like this

[@jasper7072]

This is stellar! Would love more videos like this! It really helps to see the same problems projected on different skill/experience levels. Seeing just really good climbers, do problems that I'll probably not do in 5 years is still good content, just way less helpfull and give less insight into climbing and possible improvements. The more of this kind of content with different climbers, experiences and body types the better!

[@driesvanoosten4417]

I'm confused. If he's the camera man, who's filming?😂

[@Captain-Jack-Climbing]

Camera man’s camera man

[@iainmason264]

The cat

[@Dug6666666]

Best video I have seen aimed at the competent climber looking to see what is needed to take it up a level. I see people breeze up problems I have just struggled on and think mainly, oh they are just stronger. Can see now I could gain a lot paying attention to every little difference in their approach. More of the same video please.

[@friendly.mammal]

This was awesome! Loved watching the side by side footage in slow motion; it really helps.

[@bruteforcebeta59]

This was a great video and props to the editor for visuals during the technique comparisons! Would love to see more videos in this style/manner!

[@leetlebeetle8917]

Super interesting ! Keep going on making this side by side comparison ! it's super helpful to understand mistakes that i make without even realising it 🙂

[@AidanXavier1]

You talk about being able to use confident, riskier beta because of experience and better strength. That reminded me of something my friend once said about gymnastics. "If you have technique, you don't need to use strength, but strength helps you get technique."

[@tobias_george]

Fantastic video. I've been thinking a lot about balance, body position, footwork drills, no-hands climbing lately thanks to Catalyst and Lattice videos as well as Libby Peter's excellent book Rock Climbing. Awesome seeing these ideas applied in a side by side comparison. Quality of movement is such a fascinating concept

[@longestbeann]

This is really helpful- I would love to see more coaching videos like this!

[@ekf20]

What an incredible demonstration of technique, stage, and teaching. Being able to analyse someone’s climbing and always find a really positive angle and yet also be able to show the possibilities of what that climber could achieve with better positioning is inspired teaching.

[@BenWiddowson]

Absolutely incredible. I feel I learned so much more from this video than many other ‘coaching-style’ videos. Also great to have the comparison gains someone at my level. But I think the format would work for Louis vs someone at all grades. Best video you’ve put out for ages. More like this please ❤

[@felixgriffin9472]

I really loved this, and would love to see more with different levels, and different climbing styles. Maybe super skilled static climbers with beginner dynamic climbers, or different level climbers on different types of climbs. Just a lot more, I really loved this

[@HaqueStreak]

As a V5 climber, this is a fantastic video!

[@trevorswayhome]

That decision for the toe vs the heel was awesome. I never like to opt for a high toe, but they always seem to be the optimal way to position the foot when your about to be standing on top of said foot. Thank you for this video!!!!!!!!!!

[@mickey_rose]

This is a great concept! I would love to see more videos like this. The strength and technique differences are eye opening. There’s a tendency to think harder grades are just strength differences. This needs to be a series for sure!

[@ayuminor]

I'm glad you focused more on the technique side of things in this video.

[@gerardsleftsock3946]

the most chill cat ive ever seen

[@FallLineJP]

Great video and definitely a lot of takeaways I can focus on as a V5ish climber. That said - I think the thing about readjusting your grip on the holds, and fluid motion is definitely something good to aspire to, but nothing to beat yourself up over. Clearly a V13 climber can waltz up a V4 (notice how Louis just campuses up to the finishing hold?), but that won’t be the case climbing at the limit. A 9a climber climbing 9a will have the same kind of controlled and methodical movements (IMHO 🫡) Also - Sam’s heel to toe hop swap was insane. I was like 🤯 when I saw that 😂💪🫡

[@kitarrikangelanejuzz]

Yes- please more videos like this 🤩 So educational to see how you analyze the climbs 🙈

[@stuartwebster2203]

Fantastic format, I’d love to see more analysis like this. Super helpful and the dynamic with Sam makes it fun as well as a great learning exercise.

[@smithjeff3002]

Thank you so much for this: have already subscribed! Just started this great activity (bouldering) a few weeks ago and it’s changing my life @ 52! Can’t wait to get mileage in tomorrow! Love from an NYC Yank in Osaka Japan!

[@JREV123]

very effective comparison of two climber abilities. Learned a few tips.Thanks!

[@GuyLNelson]

This is one of my favorite videos you've done. Absolutely top notch stuff!

[@hughoreillyy]

Louis this is easily the most helpful video I've seen from you so far, the side by side video analysis is huge. Make more of these please! 😊

[@mccandlessification]

that was really great, very instructive. I feel like at that level, it's nice to zoom in on specific examples to understand how to progress, because we've learnt to apply generic directions, et now a lot is about strengh -of course- but also subtle adjustments in applying those general principles -use momentum, positionning our body well, rockover...- in situation. Thank you.

[@seanmadden5313]

I have climbed for years and top,out at about V6. I know I have the strength to achieve more. This has given me a load of hope even at my ripe old age. Great video!

[@outandabout259]

Maybe flexibility training could help, I'm at the same level with weak fingers. Flexible hips and good imagination have helped a lot.

[@seanmadden5313]

@@outandabout259 wise words. My flexibility is very poor and means I can’t get into the right place to make any strength deliver results. I am working flexibility, and some times just trying harder. I do think a positive attitude is massive. I feel motivated to move it on. Cheers

[@santinosartoris]

I climb V8 outside and Sam has better finger strength than me lol (20mm for 5 with 25kgs = 135%)

[@jonnyscheibenhauer4059]

Always so impressed by people with less strength than me climbing way higher grades (160% but V6)

[@MiguelClimbs]

This video is going viral! Get ready for worldwide fame Sam the cameraman! This comparison was awesome though. 🙌

[@scriptjungle]

This is a genious video - the comparsions were really great and the explainations were really fund and well understandable too. Please more of these.

[@marcob981]

Loved the video! I feel like I always get some great info from Louis' coaching perspective and ability to communicate what makes movements successful. I think it would be very cool to see differences between climbers of different heights at similar grades

[@Abcguitare]

very very interesting! edit, I test myself again and now i lift 34kg on 20mm edge (my body weight is 69kg), V4/V5 outdoor, maybe V5/6 indoor. And hello from France :)

[@Abcguitare]

update, i have not train with weight since my first test but now my highest grad is V8, i weight 64kg and on 20mm edge for 5s i can add 32kg...less than before but my ratio is better because i have lost weight (150%)

[@giacomomattedi4326]

It's probably the best video you ever posted! Please make this a series

[@stevenweintraubjr.1228]

Love watching coach Louie climb! So floaty. The momentum is really on display here.

[@doremi8889]

I was in this exact climbing gym a month ago in London if not mistaken. Fun to watch!

[@cmcb634]

This style of video needs to be a regular thing. So often I follow the same line as a better climber, think I did the same things, can’t send and chalk it up to strength/conditioning. There were a lot of takeaways but just rocking all the way over before reaching for the hold and letting myself swing further out to better use momentum will make a huge difference for me. Thanks!

[@huntergibson9359]

This was fascinating! So cool to see those subtle differences between the two of you. A follow up video where we see Sam's attempt to use some of the differences found to improve his ascent of those climbs would be super cool. I think a video where you take climbs that a climber can already do and improve their flow and efficiency would also be super useful as well.

[@xXProTubersXx]

Would be cool to see him climb the blue rockover again and try it with the toe to see if it makes a difference

[@scottmalone4407]

Such good information in this video. Answers a ton of subtle questions I always have as to why experienced climbers seem to use such little force.

[@toshon]

Love this! More like this! The in depth video analysis is so so valuable!

[@MS-rx8it]

Regarding correlation between grades and finger strength, lattice training has that data on something like a thousand climbers. Also, what was going on with the weather outside? So windy

[@Rob1n1304]

Damn the editing is just perfect ! We want moooore

[@jsparger]

It would be interesting to see how much of Louis's beta is workable for weaker climbers. Definitely you can use skill to climb better, but there are so many times that the high-skill movement also requires a certain level of strength to pull off. If you have ever gotten weaker after a period of being strong, for sure you know that some beautiful beta becomes inaccessible to you.

[@saardean4481]

I am an absolute beginner in climbing. I just noticed something that i know from “back in the day” in sports. Regarding 5:44 in the video. Don’t start an strain exercise with an exhalation. Its like throwing away energy. Oxygen is your friend and it even is for free. Instead , take a good breath and try to control the exhalation when the strain appears and not before you even start. From this point on, of course keep on breathing. Cool video guys. Will try some of these things out

[@CaffeineStu]

Make this a series please!!

[@tevish7587]

I think this is the most useful and insightful climbing video I've ever seen (and I've watched a lot!) Not so much the strength comparison part, but the direct video analysis after, pointing out not only what the differences in technique were, but showing what those differences actually look like. Brilliant stuff.

[@stampatron]

Amazing content, thank you.

[@juhuuu4798]

Thank you so much for this great video again, Louis! ❤ You are always explaining so precisely all the differences and all the "small" things we can do to improve, that's so fantastic and always motivating! Would love to have you as climbing coach, if I wasn't living in Germany.. 😅❤

[@Greesher]

Genuinely love these style videos. Climbing is SUCH a spectrum of a sport. So many different styles and stuff. Thanks for all the interesting insight!!! Really appreciate it

[@ludocoker]

The Tenzing can placement is perfect in every shot, well played Louis :)

[@melissamantey7304]

Great video! The comparison was really helpful

[@Angus_fO]

V9 boulder/7b ish sport: 170%BW 20mm hang Would have been interesting to see a comparison in muscular strength similar to how lattice do their assessments to see how much that affects performance as well

[@z_mariani]

This was awesome! Really hoping you put more of these out! Thanks Louis

[@ManuelOctavio]

Loved it! More of this series please!

[@nicolasgauthier5359]

Really enjoyed the video! I am currently about at the same level as Sam (as most climbers probably are) so I can absolutely relate to this feedback. Cheers

[@johnmcho]

On that heel hook vs toe, the toe also allows your hips to rotate freely whereas the heel locks it in, limiting movement options. Sometimes it doesn't matter, but on that boulder, it made the shift harder.

[@dino0o0o0o2]

This is probably the most I've learned from any youtube video about climbing technique

[@em.is.cool.]

This is genuinely a great video- so interesting to see from a coaches point of view and i love the in depth analysis and comparison of the boulders, i feel like i could apply this to some of my own climbing!

[@librapower7810]

Yeah please do more of these comparison videos, learnt so much thanks

[@thomaspinches9518]

Great vid. The strength bit has been done before, as you acknowledge, but the skills comparison is really valuable. More like it please!

[@debbieforwood3688]

Loved this. As a 5ft2 shortie with a negative ape index I'd love to see a short vs tall beta comparison ☺️

[@sommer1982official]

Would love to see that too! Sometimes I’m slightly frustrated when a way taller person can leave out holds and I’m not even managing the route with the holds available 😅

[@robertpoirier4557]

Really great video! I’ve only been climbing for 3 months and I’m progressing fast but with these lessons I believe I can make my sessions last longer and use less energy on problems.

[@triplea657aaa]

Incredibly valuable video. Directly comparing like this is really enlightening for a plebian like myself.

[@thewateringwiz7118]

Loved the video, it's great to see the differences and your analysis Louis ! Would definitely love more !

[@simeoncheshmedjiev-shraik4719]

This was very, very interesting, fun and educational for me. I also vote for a series of these. Well done!!!

[@harumambaru]

Amazing, cat made it to the video! Great to see legendary content made in EustonWall

[@lukasobi]

Would love to see more of this. I finally understand how do pros make it look so easy!

[@kennethxing5380]

super helpful content, would lvoe to see a series. So many times when I'm at the gym, I see a more experienced climber do a problem I've just completed. But it's like what Neil said, a lot of the times I don't really notice the minute differences between our solutions. This vid definitely gave me a hint as to what better climbers might be doing compared to me.

[@rmazusa]

This was great. Loved the comparison! Makes it easier to learn.

[@LM_Scruffs]

I'm excited to see this comparison since I just got my 1st V5 a couple days ago and have gotten close on a couple others so it'll be cool seeing the differences. After having watched most of the video I'm curious as to why on the 2nd V4 they didn't go for right hand before left, on zoom it looked easier but idk since I'm not able to touch the hold

[@TofuRedPanda]

This was great to see, and really made me reflect on my own climbing!

[@blakes8901]

this video, in particular, is great for explaining to a layman what makes a good climber into a great climber.

[@patrickmdrew]

This is one of my favorite videos you guys have done! More of this kind of thing, please! It's so helpful for someone who's more like Sam than Louis.

[@TheKevinFanClub526]

Side by side comparison is very helpful for regular climbers to look for ways to improve.

[@thematrix3431]

I reached v8/v9 and could only crimp barely my body weight for 5 seconds on a 20mm board. The 9c strength test said my power was V9 and that was 100% accurate. I've sent 7 v8-v10 routes (my gym does boulder grades in ranges of 2) to date and 49 v6-v8s. I weigh 173 lbs and came into climbing with incredibly weak fingers. It took me 7 months of climbing and at minimum 5 of hanging just to reach the point where I could hold my own weight. That being said, because my fingers were so weak, my technique progressed incredibly quickly and I've learned how to do every possible thing I can to minimize the weight my fingers are actually holding, hence why the grade I actually Climb is consistent with my projected grade based off of my strength.

[@goncaloskim]

Yeah i had the same experience whit 9c test whit that coming out to 7c sport and i already had 2 7c but i could barely hang my weight, i bet u are realy stronger at 3finger Open drag right?

[@Fred-oz3tw]

Same

[@Fred-oz3tw]

Tendons are Holding me back

[@thematrix3431]

@@goncaloskim 3 Finger Drag is by far my strongest position LOL. I'm way stronger in Open Drag than Half Crimp and when I took the 9c test, in fact, did the first part dragging rather than half crimping

[@thematrix3431]

@@Fred-oz3tw That may be the case but I actually think for most people, body awareness and the ability to position themselves and use individual body parts holds them back rather than finger strength. I'm currently climbing consistently v7-v9 but my fingers ARE maxed out. My upper body strength is very high as is lower body strength, flexibility, body positioning (I danced professionally in Hip Hop) route reading, fear management and core strength, which, is kind of how I break down climbing. I'm not maxed out by any stretch of the imagination but BECAUSE my fingers were weak and I was coming from dancing professionally, my ability to use other body parts to get through routes creatively is how I got to v9. At this point, though, there are routes where you actually just have to be able to hold yourself on that one tiny crimp and there ARE no feet so my limiting factor IS finger strength, but for MOST people I see, they actually have fingers that are SIGNIFICANTLY stronger for their body weight than me, but they are stuck on V4/V5 because they only know how to "Pull Harder" on their fingers, rather than drive through feet and engage core and stand up through the body chain and maintain that heel hook for half a second longer to save 40 pounds of downward force on their fingers. So you totally could be accurate in saying your tendons are holding you back but, in my experience, you can get to v8/v9 before ever being even able to hold your own body weight on a 20mm crimp, and if you cannot then it's probably your technique (which really just boils down to body awareness/ control) and not tendons holding you back

[@ashhodson2063]

I started climbing at 30 years old ( 2 years and 4 months ago) and i currently climb V8 - V9 and can hang 32kg (150% bw) on 20mm for 8 seconds. Im with Louis on finger boarding however, it served me well for a few months to condition the fingers but climbing on different shape, size and style of hold has served me better in regards to finger strength. I can hang full crimp on 8mm comfortably as a result of just climbing alot.

[@dollsNcats]

How long did it take you to get to V8 ? I’m 34 and just started in June . So I’m only at a v1 🤣

[@MichaelMarteens]

Sam is a great sport, and did a great job hearing feedback!

[@masona952]

great video again Louis! If possible I would love to see more kilter board content.

[@SauceVinaigrette]

Very interesting and eye opening, I'd love to see more content like this!

[@sarahaddy1746]

Loved this video, and the super cute cat was an added bonus!! 😍

[@Chocomcbo]

Please do more comparison videos! These are really interesting and helpful for a beginner like myself.

[@anoobhey5798]

Love this style of video. More in-depth comparisons please!

[@carine742]

Such a nice video with very precise description of the big and small differences between both of you! The side-by-side comparison is sooo useful! I will add that it would have been nice to see Sam climbing again those boulders following your technique/advices to see if he was able to do it at his level