Contact Patch: Motorcycle Tire Light Spot Paint Marks

www.DaveMossTuning.com
Most motorcycle tire manufacturers place a colored paint dot/mark on their tires corresponding to the lightest part of the tire to aid the tire fitter in mounting and balancing. Thus the heavy spot of the tire is opposite the dot.
www.DaveMossTuning.com

[@myrtlelittle4130]

Those dots have been standard for almost fifty years. I thought everybody knew this. Even guys who brought new tires to me to mount would remind me about dot location circa 1975 (as is I didn't already know). As for slippage, my 1967 Triumph Bonneville came new with internal bead clamps (not roofing screws through the rim) that weighed enough to negate dot placement. Any conscientious precision MC tire man will unseat the bead and rotate the tire on the rim as many times as needed to get best primary balance before slapping on a ton of weight at one single spot. Your video is very good. The only thing new is how many people don't know the basics from years ago.

[@dondavi5798]

You will be very disappointed if you ever found out how little general population/riders know about their machines. Whether it's a bike or a cage.

[@That_Cajun_Guy]

You do realize information isn't passed through genetics, right? There's new riders every day. Those riders didn't know this information before they watched this. Now they do. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[@dondavi5798]

@@That_Cajun_Guy Sadly in the age of information, we live in the most ill informed time so far as far as automotive goes. Even new techs seem to go deaf when they are taught this basic info. Which is why it's rarely matched up on cars or motorcycles.

[@maximusmax4557]

I thought so too, but common sense and common knowledge don't exist anymore. Us older dudes must have taken it all! 🤪

[@kamleshchand5982]

Stuff which comes with experience.. Your videos should be made a part of every bikers riding journey.

[@BMWSRR-yd6do]

And this is why I tell EVERYONE to watch DMT... Always great info.... and ever if he gets something "wrong", you can be sure by the time we all watch it, things will be "right".... Honesty and transparency... Thanks DMT

[@jplusosec977]

I'm always learning something new with your videos. Simple and straight to the point.

[@stinkerdoodle1737]

It would be interesting to see if you balance the rim first then mount the Michelin and see how far out it is or isn't. That would show if their quality control is that tight or if its just marketing. Great stuff ( your almost to 100k subs 👍)

[@canonbuff]

I have done this. Mounted a Michelin and then broke the bead and rotated / remounted the same tire several times and the balance point changed each time.

[@Red5]

I always check the balance on the rim before I mount my tires. The heavy spot is NEVER exactly at the valve stem

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Very important point. So glad you commented. You speak for many, and why I put "theoretically" on the slide. Imagine how perfectly balanced a MotoGP wheel must be.

[@wobblysauce]

Yep, there are a number of variables.

[@crf450rbulletdavid9]

Same here. My rims heavy spot isnt by the stem at all.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@crf450rbulletdavid9 hence making sure you balance your front and rear wheel first and epoxy the weights into place!

[@crf450rbulletdavid9]

@@catalystreactionsbw great advice! Im actually doing a rear tire now. Thanks for all your help! Im fairly new to the sport!

[@k.sjones9139]

Dave really knows his stuff. I have learned things from his videos and when I've put them to the test it proves that Dave is right!

[@brentseay]

Thanks for your remote video help again. My bike has never been so comfortable and given me so much confidence in the corners. I also learned a ton in the process. Thanks for offering remote suspension setup.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you Brent - I appreciate your trust in my skills and thank for wanting to learn more and reap the benefits of that understanding!

[@wadeblake3451]

Certainly didn’t know that. I wonder how many $15.00/hour tire guys also are enlightened by this knowledgeable? Much appreciated Dave.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

We all hope that they were given the correct training AND via taking pride in their work, went ahead and duid some self learning along the way.

[@hil3007]

Great video regarding tyre creep! Thanks for snapshots of the tyres before and after.

[@snowpirate1619]

I was told by a tyre fitter that Pirelli balances their tyres better than others? He mentioned whenever fitting tyres, Pirelli fitted wheels were always the easiest to balance.

[@tantojutsuninpo]

I worked in the car tire industry years ago, and Michelin tires on many occasions would mount up and require zero weights to balance them. I saw no other brand do this. Just looking at how smooth the beads were, they even looked better than any other make out there.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thanks for your contribution based on your experience!

[@maximusmax4557]

I *always* mount the tire with the yellow dot at the valve stem, except on my personal wheels, where I've determined (and marked) the actual heavy spot on my wheels (roughly 3 to 4 inches away from the valve stem). Since I started mounting and balancing my own tires in 2017, I've never had to use more than 1/4 oz. to balance my own personal tires/wheels, if that.

[@moonshinepz]

we used to mark tubed aircraft tyres with a dot by the valves to spot if they had moved on the rim at all. Interesting about michelelins. . Nice video Dave.

[@dbpool]

i was in the understanding that a red dot indicated heaviest part of tire, so to mount it far side from the valve (away), and a yellow dot indicated lightest part of tire, so you'd mount it yellow dot at the valve stem.

[@bootleggerr6471]

That's actually true about Michelin tires wether passnger, truck, motorcycle tires. I know cause i worked for them making the rubber for the tires. They do have a tolerance but it is so tight that if a tires doesn't pass it's trashed and they stop the mix number. That means all the way back to the raw materials gets put on hold till lab figures out why

[@shaolin224]

Thats a very bold statement from Michelin. It would be interesting to see tests or comparisons

[@garrycoates2147]

Its marketing hype and means saving money by not testing. The real question is what is the allowable weight variance in the tyre circumference because nothing is perfect?

[@denchua]

Tire may be well balanced but it's working with the imbalance of the rim. So two variables. You'll still need to balance (tune) it.

[@shaolin224]

@@denchuaThats assuming the wheel is balanced prior to doing the test, called "control", which is obvious in any test. Heck who said a wheel needed to be used, a balanced wooden dowel, to fit the bead of the tire, would do

[@dennisrkb]

No dots on Michelin are a joke. Replaced my M7rr rear tyre with a PowerRS. Had to go from 25g to 65g counter weight. Tried rotating the tyre, counter weight fluctuated up to 100g, clearly had a heavy spot..

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thanks for sharing your feedback. Was your wheel balanced prior the installation? If not, that would concur with your findings.

[@Gambo916]

Here in the UK, my trade tyre suppliers have always advocated that a yellow circle (as on Bridgestone) goes adjacent to the valve, but a red dot (as on Metzeler) goes opposite the valve, so that's how I've always fitted them.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thanks for your contribution based on your experience.

[@maximusmax4557]

The yellow dot identifies where a tire weighs the least - the lightest point on a tire. It should be lined up with the valve stem, which is theoretically the wheel’s heaviest point. The red dot identifies where the tire is flattest - the lowest point on a tire. The red dot should be directly across from the highest point of the wheel, which is usually indicated by a colored dot or a notch on the wheel. If a tire has a yellow and red dot, the red dot takes precedence when balancing the tire.

[@Geo_Okami]

Hi from Croatia, great informative video as always👍I'm a a new rider just shy under 12K on my first bike ever, and I wanna personally thank Dave and his friend for making and sharing so much knowledge for free, I've learned so much in past few months from this channel that my riding buddies looking at me like I'm some kind a experienced old rider🤣 Anyways, in next couple of days I need to replace mine worn out tires, please sir can you teach us is there any downside to a not properly mounted tire, dots not matching valve steam, I just wanna be cautious and know think or two when going to a tire dealer🤷‍♂️ Thank you form bottom of my heart 🙏

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you for the kind words and I am happy to read that your knowledge via my channel makes you seem like a long time rider! :) If a tire is mounted with the colored dot not exactly at the valve, you will have more wheel weights installed. If the wheel has been balanced correctly - that is all you will see. If the future, get the wheel balanced first and weights installed with expoy glue. After that when the tire is installed, very few if any weights will be used for balancing.

[@Stan_in_Shelton_WA]

2 questions. 1, How much does tire wear alter balance. 2. While balancing automobile tires a common practice is to spread weights rather than place all the weight in one place. The argument for this is that the heavy or light areas are not single points but rather zones. Also placing weights on both sides of the rim. I get a lot of negative comments about this while I ride my R1 on track.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

We all have ways that we find work for us. Trial and error or via advice/articles read. Many do not use weights but use beads instead inside the tire. Many choices - do what you find works for you!

[@freelancerider100]

Many rims have a dot on them inside that is meant to be matched to the dot on the tire... we usually take the valve stem as the marker to align assuming it to be the lightest point of the rim- not always true

[@catalystreactionsbw]

For track, all my wheels are balanced first and the weight expoy glued in place. That makes for no weights needed 90% of the time when new tires are installed.

[@freelancerider100]

@@catalystreactionsbw that is a grand idea! I am pulling wheels right now!

[@rodolfomienert8292]

so if a Michelin has no light or heavy spot, yet the rim does, it would need to be balanced as an assembly anyway

[@majormassenspektrometer]

Always. A lot of shops just don't care for the spot paint marks and just put the tire on and removing the dot marks. In 99,99% the wheel has to be balanced anyway.

[@seanviper99]

Dave at 1:20 that white sticker on the side wall is supposedly the marking for the heavy part of the tyre

[@BMWSRR-yd6do]

BTW, would you ever consider doing some commentary on MotoGP racing where tuning insights regarding speed, track temp, tire pressures, etc, etc come into play.... Just a thought...

[@catalystreactionsbw]

I have done the last 2 MotoGP races with exactly that type of information and presentation here: www.streamlounge.io/

[@BMWSRR-yd6do]

@@catalystreactionsbw Thks...off to view it now

[@raynic1173]

@@catalystreactionsbw I assume you have to already have access to the viewed broadcast. Like to view MotoGP would require a Video pass prior to accessing stream lounge?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@raynic1173 Yes, correct. You ust have your own video pass.

[@raynic1173]

@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for the response.

[@dirtgarageman]

Always some new knowledge to acquire on DM canell, thanks?

[@toomanymachines]

I have grown up in the tire industry my entire life. My father owned a tire shop for 39 years. I am now 54 and continue to change around 5000 tires per year. Michelin will never hire anyone from the industry, as they will brainwash the new employee. They tell everyone they make the best, and they never cover warranty as they are "perfect". If you balance a naked rim, it will be out very little.. it is almost always the tire. Yes tires will slip on a rim. from torque. That is why tractor tire rims are splined to prevent this. Some European tractors did not have this years ago and they would rip off the stems from the torque. Even atv tires spin on the rims. I see lots of people who buy used tires online to find that they are damaged. they put a tube into them to have them fail within a week or two as they spin and tear off the stem. Balance is for each individual, I have seen people feel a half oz. on a car tire, while others would not notice anything till it is 1.5 oz. Is it a reason to buy michelin? I think not.

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Michelin makes great tires, absolutely no question they are one of the best in the world... literally. You don't dispute that do you?

[@rsmiech6691]

This is exactly what I observed after changing the rear tire. Nobody belived me. After the change, the dot coincided with the valve. After 500km, it moved two inches. After 2500 km, another 0.5 inch moved. I guess it will stay that way. All the grease used in fitting has been used up and now the friction is sufficient to hold the tire in place depending on my driving style, frequent dynamic accelerations and wheelies when safe.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Wandering around the paddock checking tire dots leads me to agree with your theory.

[@warboyrb]

That's why I've been buying Michelin's since 2002.

[@DearMajesty]

lol

[@guitaristwagner]

So if we’re mounting a Michelin tire, should we put wheel weights opposite of the valve stem?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Wheel weights will go where they are needed based on the tyre and the wheel combined. Spin the wheel gently and let it stop. Mark the 12 o'clock position, then move that mark to 9 o'clock and see if the wheel rises or falls. Weights will go at the 9 o'clock position.

[@BikesNThings]

Learn something new everyday. Thanks.

[@specialized29er86]

Okay thanks for the clip, my new Continental TKC70 tyres have no dots.

[@RickyJr46]

Always the good stuff!

[@dancarlos1216]

I just mounted a Michelin after balancing the wheel first, the wheel alone required 21g of weight. I mounted a Michelin 2CT and the balance was definitely off, the Michelin required 28g of total weight in a completely different area on the wheel. I posted a short video on my channel. With this particular tire at least, it’s seems to be marketing BS.

[@ericsmith1737]

Excellent info thank you.

[@nickfountain8420]

Tell Dave to take it easy on those tires! He shouldn't be riding that Hard!

[@YooperDanKulka]

More to know. Thanks!

[@troywee4774]

just curious as to whom the other suspension/tyre guy was that couldnt make it?

[@ajun7254]

Sir..i want to know for my motocycle tire pressure that size 90/80(Battlax bt39) at the front and 110/70(Battlax s22) for the rear tire..Both of the tire is soft compound..my weight is around 109kg..my moped is 185cc and overall weight is 124kg..so can i get my tire pressure info so that i can ride and use that pressure in trackday..tq sir..

[@conservative-proud]

Perhaps using nitrogen in the tyres and set to the correct pressures would prevent tyre slipping on the rim, perhaps using normal air, the tyres are fairly low pressure until the tyres heats up to normal operating temp ? Does that make any sense ? Or maybe using an adhesive such as Loctite 515 Master Gasket to ‘seal’ the rim as well as prevent it from slipping... 515 is quite expensive though...

[@juanpasillo3971]

Great video as always, thanks and keep it up!

[@camarocruser69]

Idk I have slaped a tires on my harley with the dot method and have not noticed any vibration and I ride pretty hard.

[@djohnson3678]

@ ben g - ride easy , you might feel something .

[@justaguy4real]

0:50 gotta align perfectly perfectly? Or close perfectly? Mine is a couple inches off haha. From as much as I know, I dont think that close is detrimental as if it were on opposite side or quarter turn from valve. advice/thoughts? my tire off similar to this one in video 1:15 1:45 wow that says a lot about Michelin

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Each to their own - I prefer to get it right when the tire is mounted so I will get it as close as possible.

[@justaguy4real]

Agreed. If it were me mounting, I'd do it prefect. But when I had my recent tires mounted I see the dot is away from valve by about 3 inches. Should I have the installer redo it??

[@jeffh278]

How does anyone thumbs down his videos

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Unfortunately because people love to be negative and ruin other people's day.

[@Pictoru2]

Fuckin ell, i spent a good 5 minutes looking for a dot on my Michelin Power 5's (and online) and couldn't find a damn thing. Finally I can rest assured that I didn't fuck it up. Thanks Dave(s)!

[@ghost32087]

Dave, will you be at Pro Italia in Glendale, CA on Saturday? If so, do I need to set an appointment?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Already sold out. Your secondary option is here:www.signupgenius.com/go/9040A48ACAF23A3FB6-dmtthousand

[@ghost32087]

@@catalystreactionsbw signed up. see you Sunday, Dave!! :)

[@neilhamill318]

So if the painted dot/marks line up with the valve. The wheel is balanced ?.

[@Scugnizzu]

No you still have to test it and eventually add counter weights

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@Johnny Blue excellent point - we will be balancing wheels when we do the Michelin video

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying here. If you look closely at the photo of the R6 wheel (a front I believe), you'll see a strip of wheel weights covered by duct tape right there at the valve stem and the tire dot. So that wheel or tire or both was definitely heavier opposite the valve stem. But tire vendors with a stack of rims and tires to mount before the next session/race don't have time to figure out the heavy spot on every rim. They just go with valve stem and hope for the best, leaving it to the rider to balance their wheels if they care enough about it.

[@spar8334]

So it's common for tires to be spinning on the rim?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

On liter bikes with good riders, they will move.

[@AleksiJoensuu]

Usually when I install tyres, I simply check where the current wheel weights are and then align the tyre so the dot is opposite that. I don't think there's a possibility to do this exactly right unless you take the old tyre AND the weights off and then see where the rim's balance is before you install the new tyre. Another interesting feature is: does wheel weighing matter so much? I haven't balanced my ADV bike's wheels at all and certainly can't tell the difference. I don't think most people at the track balance their weights either. I did do it on my Electra Glide just in case, because it is like two hours each to get those out and in. I do balance all customer tyres except off road machines, since that's expected, and since sometimes it might matter. And yeah, Michelin's don't put that on there. I don't believe what their marketing says, I think they just don't care. And I understand that quite well, since realistically you can't really tell where the balance is for any rim. By the way, I BELIEVE the reason we CAN feel an out of balance tyre on a car is because on a car the wheel is at the end of an arm. As it's at the end of an arm, at certain speeds repetitive vibrations can start oscillating to create stronger vibrations. That's why you can tell an off-balance tyre on a car at certain speeds but perhaps not at some other speeds. And as motorcycle tyres aren't at the end of an axle but in the middle, that oscillation is much more difficult to happen. But I'm no physicist, so doubt my words. I'd love to hear a physicist's take on this.

[@maximusmax4557]

Ummmmm...

[@MotoMaximus]

My question is when manufacturers are going to start adding tpms on bikes? 🤔

[@naranjalorange8584]

Are you still in the 90's or something?

[@ericscaillet2232]

@@badgerman23 yep....you will feel it soon enough

[@suipful]

ahhhh Mr Willams is back in the video...

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, reply here. Is that a good or bad thing?

[@suipful]

@@catalystreactionsbw good thing... :)

[@Scugnizzu]

Simply proof balance the Michelin and paint a dot, see what happens

[@catalystreactionsbw]

we will do that as a separate video

[@somethingsomethingsomethingdar]

Dave Moss Tuning yes!

[@A.Doll.Fiddler]

I run Michellens myself and always doubted their marketing. If a rim is theoretically heaviest at its stem (for example, +5 grams) then adding a perfectly balanced tire means the wheel/tire will still be off balance by 5 grams. Conversely with a traditional setup, the imbalanced tire should offset some of the wheels imbalance, making for a more balanced wheel/tire... I dont believe us mere mortals could ever notice it but this is all in theory anyway.

[@liquidmccloud6590]

Interesting

[@cyclelife9179]

Haha, Are you directly telling me that my thruxtonR needs to convert to tubeless!?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Nope :)

[@gazmgow622]

Use all the tyre surface god damn it

[@parkeranderson5074]

Mitchelynn’s it is then.

[@marcusgeorge1825]

Interesting! I always assumed it was part of the quality control of each tyre, meaning if they were marked they had been checked and passed... 🤔

[@steve23464]

Knew about the dot but didn't know tires, though race tires, move on the rim. I figured if the tire moved it would lose air pressure.

[@conservative-proud]

Conti’s are the same, no dot anywhere...

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Great information, thank you! Need to add them to the tyre mounting test.

[@DmanGuitar327]

My dunlop Q4 have 0 paint markings either.. (yay its balanced..., its not a race tire i know)

[@ericscaillet2232]

maybe it wore off.

[@DmanGuitar327]

@@ericscaillet2232 brand new tire.. around less than 1000 miles

[@op3l]

Info I didn't even know was a thing...

[@AntaresSQ01]

Yea I see these videos and think: "wow I've never thought of that, I'll make sure that is considered next time I change the tyre" then i realise that it's probably meaningless on my ER6 that I ride on the street mostly with a few casual track days occasionally lol

[@philpfirrmann7729]

I'm surprised someone hasn't invented a glue like tacky tire mounting paste , so the tires don't spin on the rim. But again that couple of inch movement must not really effect how the bike handles.,,,

[@ericscaillet2232]

there is such a thing as a bead locks found on most trail or off road bikes.

[@AvenEngineer]

Just do what drag racers do. Throw a dozen self tapping screws through the rim into the tire, problem solved! ;)

[@recyclebills]

Can't feel a tire out of balance? I'm far from an expert and I have never raced but after almost 50 years of street riding I've straddled several motorcycles and quickly figured out that one or both tires were out of balance.

[@tomquaker]

man, they are all dunlops on the video :), and i liked q4s so much, darn it :((

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying ad nauseam here. I just randomly grabbed shots from bikes nearby in the same garage bay at Utah Motorsports Campus. There was no rhyme or reason to it. I was riding a track day there. I would ride the Q4's no problem. There are no bad tires, just pick one to ride most of the time. Tire hopping creates too many handling headaches. If you're serious about riding, pick a tire and sign up for Dave's remote tuning service to dial in the bike to you on that tire. Then ride that tire for at least 2 rear tires (usually get 2 rears per front). Then pick the same model from another brand and repeat (complete with remote tuning). Then a third brand and repeat. If you're up for it, do it with the 4th brand, but 3 would suffice. After that you'll know without a doubt which tire has the feel you want and best matches your riding style. Then don't change anymore until a new version from one of the manufacturers comes out. When they do, test a set with Dave's remote tuning. Do this until Dave retires or dies. This concludes today's lecture. Return now to your regularly scheduled life.

[@testbox3201]

Michelin, no dot no heavy spot? No!

[@dancarlos1216]

Next Michelin I install, I’m going to balance the wheel first and throw the tire on and test.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Excellent! Please reply with your results.

[@dancarlos1216]

Dave Moss Tuning will do, probably be awhile, most people get Dunlop’s or Shinkos.

[@claudebaron9525]

Yeah we used to call that the chicken strip, especially when you see a new guy arriving with a brand new bike with full aftermarket racing parts, and with the full brand new equipment of top quality and when he park, we see that theirs more than a inch left on each side of the tires, now we called that a pilot.😂😂😂😂😂😂 asking him how much does he turned the handlebar when he takes a curves.😂😂😂😂😂

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Who's this Dave Moss guy, is he even qualified to give bike advice?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Depends on your perspective. 40 years with motorcycles, 100's of thousands of hours of testing, coaching, training and riding? That might not be enough in your eyes.

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

@@catalystreactionsbwYou busted my sarcasm trap. Seriously, you can tune my bike any time.. I just don't have the riding skill to need it 😆

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@user-cx2bk6pm2f Respectfully, every rider needs it at least for sag and damping on an initial set up. If you do not account for oil aging and set damping, chassis balance is lost and we choose to adapt in a worsening situation. Try this video to see what you have now for tyre wear. Getting it right periodically can save you a lot of money in tyre wear: kzbin.info/www/bejne/moe8hJl_itOteM0

[@Konstantinos340]

well, youll get nothing then chatter in a certain range of speed then it'll go away again. i know people that fit them to compensate for the tire slipping on the rim so after they are done the tire moved from 2 o clock to 10 oclock for example past the 12 oclock valve stem.

[@AlexPtc89]

I mounted countless tires on cars (same idea with the dots) and let me tell you, that bragging on brands that their tires don't need dots is a bunch of bull crap. Its true, on motorcycles the effect is much smaller due to the tire beeing much smaller and lighter.