Catan is PURE LUCK

If you've played Catan as much as I have (way too much), you've probably complained about how much luck and randomness affects the game. Well, worry no more! Here are 7 ways to reduce or eliminate the random nature of Catan.
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0:00 Catan is TOO Random!
0:50 #1 Event Cards
1:43 #2 Pre-Balanced Catan Boards
2:11 #3 Pity Tokens
3:37 #4 Fairest Dice
4:05 #5 More Dice
4:41 #6 Crucible
6:03 #7 Real Talk
Event Cards
boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2...
Helpers of Catan
www.catan.com/helpers-catan
Pre-Balanced Catan Boards
www.boardgameanalysis.com/wha...
Crucible
claycrucible.com/2014/07/clay-...

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Subscribe! Or don't... It's completely random anyway

[@alexs.5295]

This is a very well edited/produced video. I was shocked half way into watching to realize you only have 55 subscribers

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Thank you, that means a lot. I am still early in my YT journey, but these kinds of comments are very encouraging to keep going!

[@orendafni]

Agreed! Didn't notice until I read the comment

[@KenPlaysCatan]

@@orendafni Appreciate it, makes me feel like maybe I'm on the right track

[@matthewfinis6723]

My live reaction reading this comment: 🙂👍😮🤭🤭😵‍💫

[@KenPlaysCatan]

@@matthewfinis6723 Dude it's nuts, I really didn't expect this video to get this kind of reaction.

[@epopb]

I have played countless games of Catan over about twenty years now, and it has never seemed to me that it needed adjusting (I am a Method # 7 all the way🙂). Great video, btw. I thought it was well edited and presented in a quick, yet followable, fashion that I really enjoyed.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Incredible! It truly is a timeless game. And yeah, it didn't occur to me either until I saw the thread, but I am also pro-homebrew rules if it makes the players happy. Even tournaments have modified the game for improved gameplay (some tournaments adjust the initial board state, like #2).

[@samueldickenson2062]

Yeah I play alot and I was pretty wound up by this video until I watched it all the way through!

[@GrzegorzPalian]

A note regarding the "perfect information" of Catan, it's not exactly a perfect information game because some of the moves are hidden. To be specific: - drawing a random card from another player after rolling 7 or using a knight card - development cards

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Too true, but I think you get 'enough' information that it was worth trying to make that point. Also, it wouldn't sound as cool to say "almost perfect information" lol

[@johnmickey5017]

The randomness of the die rolls goes against having perfect information as well, it really isn’t like chess and definitely isn’t the right use of a very specific term.

[@johnmickey5017]

@Cory Burns Lol projecting much???

[@jeremyarcus-goldberg9543]

For #3 Pity Tokens, my group also has the rule that when you choose to cash in your tokens you have to spend all of them. For instance, in the beginning of the game you can easily get 4 tokens after a few rounds. But that would not get you two resources. You would have to spend the 2 for the free resource but also have to give the extra 2 back to the supply. That way, there is less of a problem with collecting a lot of free resources even though the player picked poor numbers.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

That's a nice adaption. It sort of forces players to purchase sooner instead of waiting for a perfect opportunity, or worse, buying multiple resources with tokens.

[@AlpineMeeple]

Nice video! I liked the roll three dice idea. Personally I like the randomness but that doesn’t sound game braking and makes for some interesting tactics.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yeah that is my favorite. The combination of balanced boards + 3 dice seem like a really clean 'fix' without breaking the overall spirit of the game.

[@gaboderflinger7854]

Naa, three dice is overkill, basically you get rid of both luck and a huge bunch of the strategy factor. The game is already very predictable as it is and by adding that you make it even more predictable.

[@gabrielwinston330]

My experience of playing with 3 dice is that especially for the beginning of the game, there are a ton of 7s. It's nearly always possible to choose a 7, and so it happens way too often. I think next time I'm going to say you can't choose a 7, or maybe, you can, but only a certain amount of times or only above a certain game score. But that was just my experience.

[@AlpineMeeple]

@@gabrielwinston330 Am yet to try it myself but if you had a third die of another colour, you could then say; You can not ever pick a 7. However, if a 7 is rolled on the pair of "Red Dice" then you can not use the "yellow die" to chose your number and the robber is activated. This keeps probability of 7's the same as they have been but adds the flexibility of picking a number on your turn if a 7 has not been rolled.

[@milosmarkovic3154]

Agree. Also, if you want to reduce number of options a player have (and thus the time he/she needs to make the decision), if red dice don't give 7, you can play that a player has to use a yellow die, i.e. he/she has just 2 options: yellow+red1 or yellow+red2.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Like #7? This video will help you get started: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3SupnWaa8iBbNE

[@dgermain001]

Hi I'm the author of the page with the pre-balanced Catan board. Glad to see that you like them. Cool video !

[@KenPlaysCatan]

David, it's an honor! Thank you for your amazing contribution to Catan.

[@WheelUpTime]

This is excellently cut and animated. I wish I had this level of professionalism on videos for my game. Would make creating a tutorial way better than me clicking around in tabletop simulator :P

[@KenPlaysCatan]

I enjoyed your rap battles. I used to make some too, really fun to do.

[@WheelUpTime]

@@KenPlaysCatan thanks so much! Just a huge nerd here who loves wheel of time and board games :D and rap music

[@ScorpioIsland]

Dude, amazing content. Staggered that you're making videos this well this early. Keep it up

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Thanks homie, much appreciated. I put a lot of time into it but really didn't expect much from it so I am really caught off guard lol

[@13277769]

#7 is very well said. Great video actually got me to comment for the first time after 10 years on here.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Oh wow. I'm honored. Glad it made that impression on you.

[@firox9757]

I am really amazed how well edited this video is. You rock bro! And I love your video, as a Catan player, some of the rules sound really interesting.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

:D If you liked it, I just dropped another Catan video for your enjoyment.

[@opwith6608]

Subscribed brother!!! Keep it up! I like these ideaa tbh. The d12 is funny I think.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Thanks bro, I won't let you down!

[@ghostyboyofficial]

Awesome vid , good job and really thanks!

[@Gavinwad]

Great video! Subscribed!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Thank you sir, hope to do more like it, I won't let you down!

[@calebboyer6262]

awesome video, great editing

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

Ahhh I love this kind of video with easy house rules for increased interaction, layers, or fairness. Can't wait to see more I also love how you mentioned that ending for the game already being mostly fine. I think the social aspects of targeting each other or trading each other has value, of self balancing a bit. I think the only thing I would use is the pity tokens but maybe where it costs a minimum of 4 or 5 or something just so the pity isn't too strong in early game.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Thank you for noticing. I'm trying to make games more accessible and be catalysts for people enjoying each other's company, it's encouraging to hear you caught wind of that. Yeah the pity tokens would be really strong in the early game, you would probably find ways to refine it as you try it out.

[@sloopdoopyh1493]

This video is so good you Fr deserve more subs!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Aw that's really nice, okay fine i'll trade you the ore you wanted.

[@courtneytrammell9474]

I would love to hear about #7! I'm tired of dry catan videos, yours was great!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Today is your lucky day! I'm about to drop the next video which is about improving your Trades in Catan.

[@salfontana5712]

I can tell this channel will blow up. Keep up the good work!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Thank you! Just happy to hear people are enjoying it.

[@BradKesling]

Time to end the many many Catan games that end in yelling, fighting, and pouting. Looking forward to tryin out with my friends. Especially the tokens one!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

May these ideas bring peace to your table.

[@dershwans]

In an attempt to speed up the game we have started playing with the pair of six-sided dice, as well as a singular 12-sided di, re-rolling the 12-sided if you roll the same number with both

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Interesting. Allows for the outlier numbers to get some attention too.

[@Kojimalosophy]

my man! please keep this up! this here was a really well done video, I just subscribed to your channel. hey, have you had any thoughts on how to fix Dead of Winter?

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Thank you sir. What problems are you having with Dead of Winter?

[@leocarlton4364]

This was a very good video. Focusing on these topics is really interesting and a nice little unexplored pocket of youtube. Unlike video games, board games cannot be 'balanced', hence if a meta strategy gets discovered then the game gets stale. I would love to see more videos like this on games that have this issue: Secret Hitler Ticket to Ride One Night Warewolf

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Duly noted. And I agree, I think there is a lot to discover in this world and I have a long list of videos to make haha

[@TylerAndToast]

I love the 3 dice idea. And getting gold when no number is rolled

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yeah big fan of the 3 dice idea too. Give way more control to players.

[@catanblunders5113]

Cool video dude! I like lots of these ideas

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Thanks man. I just checked out your 'development cards ranked' video.

[@hectorjavierrodriguezmonto9908]

This is a great video.

[@user-kx3zg5bj9o]

I like the idea of combining (3)Pity tokens with (5)More dice. Every time you get no resources, you will get pity-token. Before rolling the dice, you can exchange tokens to extra dice(the cost of extra dice is equal to player score), and then you can select 1 dice to discard.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Oh wow, that is a really interesting combination, nice idea.

[@teratoma.]

amazingly edited

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Thank you, good to hear. Let's me know if I should keep doing things this way.

[@jimmydunn9210]

A lot of really cool thoughts here! I have always felt like the dice can make this game seem unfair at times. I have been playing this game with family and friends for 7 years now I think? Sometimes I feel like even if you've done everything right in a game there is still that chance factor that can throw you off but I really like the idea of method 5! Additionally methods 2 and 3 seem alright as well. I really liked your video and hope to see more neat content like this on your channel!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

I am also a fan of #5. I feel like it stays true to the spirit of the game but also significantly reduces the the 'severity' of the random element. I'm glad you like the content, I'll try to keep it interesting haha

[@reedbowden1478]

Great video

[@lidorajcher]

Can't believe you have less then a 1000 views. A YT gem.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Thank you, your comment energizes me.

[@greenatom]

Learning to deal with unfairness is an essential life-skill. Tired of not having your numbers rolled? Make sure you select a decent spread of numbers to start off with! You'll never learn to do this if someone gives you (yuck) pity tokens.

[@10thmountainmax70]

Thank you for this as it’s nice to see we aren’t the only ones that feel the game needs a bit more balance. Yes, the original is a GREAT game but after playing about 100 games with different combinations of people it was hard to ignore the fact that more often than not, one player gets left behind to such a degree that it doesn’t take long before it just isn’t fun. I set out to fix this and over the course of about 3 months and a lot of trial and error came up with a set Catan board that uses numbers 2-11 in which two D12’s are rolled each turn. When a 1 is rolled every player rolls Catan dice & for 12’s each player gets 2 gold (pity tokens). There are far too many tweaks to the original rules to get any deeper into an explanation but note that about 90% of the time if player A doesn’t win on their turn, player B (etc.) will noting no player is ever more than maybe 1 round or 2 from victory with only a need for a little bit of luck to achieve such.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

That sounds really interesting and is something I haven't heard used yet. It sounds like you did a lot of tweaking just from that short explanation, but the fact that it produces close games is a huge deal. If you find the time, I wouldn't mind a full explanation.

[@MrSteakable]

I lost that bet. 7 decks in the house. Liked, commented, and subscribed.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Muhahaha. Excellent.

[@el_jhona8945]

This looks Nice... I already have the PDF file of Helpers of Catan, I should try that one and maybe the 3 dice method 👌🏼

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Big fan of the 3 dice method, really adds something to the game.

[@SavedByGrace_CitizenEmperor]

Nice vid. That's the reason why me and my friends don't play the standard Siedler boardgame but the Cities and Knights Edition. I think that version is more balanced and the green, yellow and blue cards make the game a lot more exciting.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Sounds like I have to get this expansion. A lot of people have mentioned it's balance.

[@jamiehackl1231]

Great high quality video. Number 7 is the real truth!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yeah, hard to argue with a 27-year old game. Clearly it's doing something right.

[@thewingett]

Please make that next video about Catan strategy. Your video is great! I like your format.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

(writes in Journal) A complete stranger enjoyed my video today, I can't begin to express that satisfaction. I must thank him by fulfilling his/her request!

[@mattrix4200]

Yes these are definitely some creative and innovative ways to minimize the randomness of the game (thank you for the list)... At the same time, I'm very glad that you recognized at the end there are higher levels of strategy and skill that can be studied and implemented. Now I personally wouldn't devote that much time into one game just to claim I win despite the randomness, but if winning this one game does matter that much then who am I to say a person shouldn't do it? I play games to compete hard, to have fun, to try and out strategize, and to enjoy time with others... Once the game is done I don't want to pursue personal time to study it at a higher level than my friends. Again, nothing wrong with that, but once it hits that level it loses its appeal and its purpose for me.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yeah I know what you mean. I also do the same (compete hard, have fun, strategize, enjoy time with others), but there were a few games where I tried to go pro. It was fun in it's own way but it was kind of lonely because my friends didn't share the same drive and so I ended up playing a lot of strangers.

[@mattrix4200]

@@KenPlaysCatan that's why I tend to keep my game groups filled with skilled players who love to play, but won't go home and spend hours trying to game-hack for the next time we play...the moment people try to game-hack and become pro-players, I'll move onto something else.

[@JosephLachh]

That guy was so considerate to wipe the game off the table before he smashed it so that he didn't damage the game. What a nice guy.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yes, excellent sportsmanship.

[@zachindes]

I feel called out when he guessed how many decks of cards I have…

[@KenPlaysCatan]

And I was being polite with the number, as I'm sure you know.

[@revimfadli4666]

Really nice vid! The thing about mitigation via trading is that you can only do it if the dice gave you anything you can trade with in the first place. And strategic placement can get nullified by very non-ideal rolls(I once had 12s show up more often than 5s). Would you address these in the next Catan video? Also there's tip #8: find another game which suits you better lol. Maybe it's Concordia with the controllable handbuilding. Or even Scythe where you just choose when to produce everything you can. Or maybe it's Chinatown which is all negotiation. Or maybe Container for the dynamic supply/demand control. Or perhaps Space Base or My Farm Shop

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Insightful comment, thank you. You really know your stuff. I've heard Concordia and Chinatown come up before when talking about Catan-adjacent games. As for the first paragraph, yes I'll try to account for those realities in the next video.

[@VMan776]

Funny how you said you had a game with more 12's than 5's. Just a few days ago I played a game where the only wood spots were 2, two 5's, and 11, which rolled once, never, and ~three times, respectively, while the 12 no one was on rolled at least seven times. It was horrible when no one had any wood, but at least it was a unique experience.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

@@VMan776 That sounds brutal. Game must have taken ages lol

[@caniuse3]

The more dice is a really cool method, would love to see how it plays out in my future games

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yeah, it's like a simple solution that doesn't change the game too much.

[@DyrianLightbringer]

"I'll bet a like and subscribe that you have at least 3 decks of cards in your house." Close! I only have 2.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Bah! Maybe next time.

[@CerealKiller143]

There's already a "pity token" system in Catan. It's called the Welfare variant. But works exactly as described in this video

[@TheSchaef47]

2:00 this highlights the real problem with random resource gathering. It's not just the randomness of the dice, it's also the random layout of tiles and random distribution of numbers. It's threefold.

[@hweidigiv]

My intuitive sense of game design suggests that allowing the player whose turn it is to also collect one resource matching the die roll. It ensures that you always get at least one resource every round.

[@xenlight8675]

I don’t know what catan has to do with my having decks of cards in my house but the absurdity Of that statement combined with the fact that it is indeed very true… Well I guess you won that bet take my sub

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Hahaha, perhaps some method to that madness eh?

[@bastian8001]

In the beginning you can let randomness decide which position you have to choose your settlement. However you can also let randomness decide your position to choose your position to choose your settlement. That way skill plays a more important role too.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Interesting. How would you use randomness to decide position? My idea: Roll 2 dice, whatever the number (12 for example), you have to place a settlement by a 12 hex. Then you keep rolling 2 dice until you get a number that matches a number beside a 12 hex so that you know more specifically where to place. Roll a third time if needed.

[@bastian8001]

@@KenPlaysCatan no, what I meant is you roll the dice, then the person with the highest number looks at the board and decides whether he wants to place his setllement as first, second, third or fourth. Then the one with the second highest does the same, then the person with third highest and last the person with the lowest number on the dice is only left with one.

[@trevoraustin1062]

That was good, I bet you a like comment subscribe that you got 3 decks of cards🤣 brilliant. It’s refreshing and clever, most KZbins 3 seconds into the video say like and subscribe without us watching the video or understanding the quality of the content.

[@benkentucky4380]

This was a quality cover of the topic with great editing and pacing, going to try a couple of these out for fun. But to counter your "skill trumps random" a bit, tourneys are best of 3, often with multiple qualifying rounds to attend to carry only your "best score" to semi finals. Tourney and home play in most games aren't very comparable because they're formatted specifically to try to emphasize skill over RNG - see "losers brackets" Still a fair ending point tho, Catan is far from "broken" just not the home experience some players want to stick with because of the frontloaded RNG.

[@codyallen43]

I love the event card deck, so much better than the 2 dice and adds an extra element to the game. We also use the fish mechanic from the same expansion and it makes the game much more fun (even if fish are somewhat OP and whoever controls the lake usually controls the game)

[@laurilehtiaho9618]

While we have not done anything about the resource production, our family has a house rule where only every second 7-throw will result in someone getting robbed, and on every second time the robber moves back to the desert instead. We still have had the "discard extra cards" rule happen on every throw of 7, though. You can think of this rule as the robber returning to his lair with his newly-gathered loot for a small respite before striking out again. We have also done some pre-balancing, with a rule that no two red numbers (the most probable ones) can exist next to each other on the board. Despite the heavy luck-based element, Catan is a game our family has returned to time after time.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Really like the flavor of the robber returning to his liar. And yes, there is a reason this game is still so popular after being around for decades.

[@TheAzorg]

I don't even know catan but i find this video very interesting. Might have me some ideas to "balance" other board games I'm more familiar with ;)

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yeah true, some of the ideas can totally be adopted into other games.

[@uncledeath2246]

I made the mistake of complaining too much when I was younger and hotheaded about the dice and now my friends dont want to play Catan anymore :) However as time passed and I tried out multiple forms of randomness(in other tabletops or in video games) I found that I am not a player who enjoys having base functions of the game tied to random chance. I enjoy games where I am certain whether or not it is strategy or lucky dice that yielded someone their win(such as chess) or where randomness "incapacitates" you only on occassion/strategy helps better diminish unfair random chance(I like Eldritch horror in this regard). I will admit when I lose fairly and there will be no moments where there is discussion over the loss being random or a skill issue. I liked the proposals, and while i understand number 7 I also feel like it diminishes the fact that luck is unavoidable in performance, but that is my personal take. Good video regardless!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

I think the random element is a core component of what makes a lot of games interesting. It's just to what degree the randomness helps or hurts the game. There is probably a graph somewhere where X is amount of randomness and Y is enjoyment factor and it's probably a bell curve lol. And you're right, luck is unavoidable in performance if you only consider a single instance of the game. But over 100's of games, the luck factor diminishes greatly.

[@KeysoftheLord]

I ALWAYS do pre-arranged boards. It makes the game 500% more fun and balanced.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yeah, makes a big difference without really modifying the game all that much.

[@francescognerre2408]

the 3 dice solution seems pretty cool tho

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yeah, it was probably the closest to keeping the true spirit of the game.

[@PelicansPress]

I have seen it suggested that instead of dice, you draw a card with a number on it. Certain numbers(6,7,8) have more cards in the deck than others. (1,12) keeps randomness to it as well as not changing any part of the game but the dice itself.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Solid idea. You can do like Ace = 1, Jack = 11, Queen = 12

[@LuisBarrim]

@@KenPlaysCatan Also keep the Kings to reset the deck. So people would no be so sure that all numbers will be rolled evenly.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

@@LuisBarrim Neat use of the King.

[@trequor]

Card counting ruins the fun

[@Vearru]

As someone who’s won almost every game of Settlers of Catan I’ve played I definitely like method 7.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

EVERY game of Settlers? You need to start joining some tournaments!

[@Vearru]

@@KenPlaysCatan Almost. I’ve mostly played with friends and family, but I tend to be very charismatic and I’m great at proposing deals where everyone wins. I also tend to lay low to appear as non threatening as possible until I know I can get the points I need to win relatively quickly (a big part of that strategy is using development cards in order to have information that my opponents don’t know allowing me to continue to lay low). The times I’ve lost have been when the people at the table either give the leading players whatever trades they’d like making it very easy for them to win, or when I’ve been embargoed by the entire table from game start because they know I tend to be very strategic in my game play. Also I might do some tournaments one day when I’m a little less swamped with life obligations.

[@JusSomeGuyOnInternet]

my ideas I just came up with: most of the game is regular rules but you give each player Ace-6 playing cards, at any time during a game you can replace one die with one card. I think on average you get like 15-20 turns per game so you can't do this every time and you are further limited by only using each number once. It's really only there to prevent the table flipping turn.

[@dariorisaliti8020]

Very inetresting and well edited video. I really like #5 solution (triple dice), but how do you manage it with cities & knights expantion? Maybe you can use double red dice. Or you can be forced to pick the red one (and one of your choice from whites). Any ideas?

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Unfortunately I have not played any of the Catan expansions (except 6 player base game), so I don't really know the rules. But it sounds like I'm missing out on some interesting things.

[@ibandribew]

Starfarers of Catan has a very good way of making sure you get some cards.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

I need to play the expansions, I keep hearing good things.

[@itsnottylor4011]

I think the best resolution is the balanced boards option, but I also think that crucible Catan sounds really fun. I'm gonna give that a try because it sounds cool!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yeah Crucible would feel like a whole new game.

[@JuanFelipeCalle]

I think Catan is fine the way it is if you play it often. It's like any game that mixes luck with skill -- enough plays, and skill wins out. However, that randomness can be really unfun if you only play on occasion, which is where some of these mods make sense to me.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yeah agreed, I talk about that in the video at #7. And have pretty decent reasoning to back it up.

[@erix4erix]

Thanks

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Welcome

[@pokefrosch617]

Interesting Video. My seven Ideas to fix this problem: 1. Ruins of Arnak 2. Le Havre 3. Furnace 4. Castles of Burgundy 5. Power Grid 6. Concordia 7. Insert your favourite Eurostyle Boardgame in here!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

I keep hearing good things about Concordia for people transitioning from Catan.

[@pokefrosch617]

@@KenPlaysCatan to be honest, i prefer playing a different game every or every second game night. Im more curious about games in general then perfecting playing a single one.

[@TheLoserface45]

I was very intrigued by this video bc while I do get frustrated at the dice, there are so many other controllable factors. There have been a few games where a friend and I were both a turn away from winning and a dice roll determined who it was but that the fun of it.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yeah too true. You can do everything right and the dice will decide the final result. But you can also decide how to react to that dice roll!

[@TheLoserface45]

@@KenPlaysCatan a lot of less experienced players will get lost in the rolls but having multiple avenues of strategy and adapting is HUGE in Catan.

[@xCDHx]

Quality video !!! Do more of these, like in monopoly

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Dude, that is a great idea. A lot of people don't like the randomness in monopoly either.

[@xCDHx]

@@KenPlaysCatan been researching ideas and other things but honestly the best version of the game IMO is monopoly deal

[@KenPlaysCatan]

@@xCDHx Noted. What search terms did you use to research ideas?

[@sm5574]

Well, yes. It's kind of like Backgammon. If you really love the game, you'll play it a ton and learn the strategies that help you maximize your chances of winning. But if you're a casual gamer, you aren't going to do that. Catan sits on my shelf because the randomness makes it not fun. And since it isn't fun, I don't feel compelled to get better at it. I think it could be fun if the randomness were dealt with, and I like the 3 dice idea, so I'm going to try that. As long as it's more fun than frustrating, and it stays casual, I'll play it. I have too much going on in my life for games to be anything more than a light time with family and friends.

[@jeremiah4267]

dude i love the randomness. Ive been playing with risk pieces and treating settlements and cities like territories in risk and you can take other players cities XD.

[@GForce4]

What burned me on Catan was I had a few games where my numbers did not hit AT ALL even with some good numbers picked and at that point I felt like I was taking up space. I couldn't build anything cause I had only 1 or 2 resource cards meanwhile no one would trade with me cause I had nothing to offer. I had entire systems and paths just shut out because I didn't have the bare essentials to even participate. It also didn't help that I would get robbed so the few turns my numbers did hit I would get nothing> Given your higher level catan knowledge was there anything I could have done to crawl out of that hole? I really don't want to be stuck in 2 hour game that I can't leave or affect the outcome.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

First thing to remember is that not all games will go that way. Sometimes you just get REALLY unlucky (like what you described). But as for strategy. Your first 3 resources are your first opportunity to trade. Either you go for a road+settlement, or save up for a city. Either way, you should use the #7 concept and make a lot of promises so that you can get quick early resources. And keep your promises as best you can. Hopefully this will get you past the early struggles.

[@cptnquick]

Fair bet.

[@adamstewart247]

There's also a Catan Dice app for Android that does the same thing as the event cards in perfect bell curve dice distribution. It's possible to do the event cards with just using the dice rolls

[@dustinhersey7449]

Also grabbing ports and making offensive plays. ( You know someone is gonna build roads that block a certain player and trading them supplies they need to do it, or supply blocking a valuable resource.) I won by supply blocking wheat whilst being targeted by the other three players. No trading, thieving only me, trying to block my routes.

[@cptnquick]

Fair bet

[@mirandakuhlmann6927]

You have less than 500 subscribers? Let's fix that stat. Sent this video to my local game stores discord server!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Wow.. that's really kind of you. I appreciate it.

[@deborahburkhardt9284]

I like #3 and #7! Mainly because my frustration comes when, despite well placed settlements, I go 10 or turns without a single resource and fall hopelessly behind. The game isn't fun then. But I like utilizing the Catan strategies, so I feel that pity tokens is a decent fix.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

My stance on Pity tokens flips around a lot. It can greatly speed up the early game, and that spirals into an overall shorter game. Catan is fairly long as it is. This also means you can get in a lot more games in a game night, and that ain't bad.

[@Doubleranged1]

The last point actually kinda proves how randomness breaks the game. If the top performers can't even get to the highest stage consistently (2 times isn't consistent) it means luck is a major factor. Look at (e-)sports. The top performers there are able to consistently get in the top rankings, because luck plays a smaller role.

[@acebojanglesable]

I like the randomness. It can be annoying, but it keeps the game interesting. Like poker

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yep, that random/gamble feeling is partially why this game is so successful.

[@ErgoProdigy]

I have two decks... I was about to like your video too.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Two decks? You gotta pump up those numbers homie, those are rookie numbers!

[@benji-menji]

I think if I found that my games of Catan in my play group were not very fun for one reason or another, these methods can help create a meta where everyone can have fun. I haven't played Catan but if I do, I'll have these in mind for freshing things up.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

I like your channel banner. "If you talk over new players, you might die in the night."

[@benji-menji]

@@KenPlaysCatan I actually got Blood On The Clocktower from Crowd Ox because I wanted to make amazing social gatherings and learn some game design and DMing skills with some self learning for fun.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

@@benji-menji That's the dream dude. "Amazing social gatherings" is pretty much my north star too. Only recently started DMing for D&D5e, my goodness that was fun.

[@realmless4193]

One of the things I do is take a port that will be useful for every one and then tell them I'll let them use my port on my turn if they give me one of any card. Some games, this gives me the largest hand, and other times it is barely used.

[@valtjaz5691]

Got Traders And Barbarians to try less "randomness" with event cards and it was pretty ok, just strange, that my event cards don't have "red dice" printed on them for Cities And Knights - still have to roll one dice. Actually think that Pity Token could be nice, will surely try it on the next Catan game

[@CerealKiller143]

Just use the welfare variant. It's literally what is described in this video as pity token

[@roflattheworld]

We play up to 11 points instead of 10 and it has absolutely revolutionized the game for us - initial board placement has to take much more expansion opportunities into account, games almost never feel like they ended "too early", and when four people are playing, the lowest end score among us is staggeringly high - north of 7!! It's not entirely uncommon to have games end with three other players at 10 points, with a majority of games having a summed point count of at least 37 (which is ridiculous)... Can't recommend enough that players give it a try!!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

That is a neat idea. Getting that extra point so late in the game must be pretty difficult with everything going on.

[@leoff7]

Liked for #7. People place a villain mark on randomness without weighting the possible depth in strategy that it ends up bringing about when done right.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yes. The other side of the 'coin' of randomness is the the joy of the unexpected it brings to the game.

[@VagabondTurtle]

I think I have every possible expansion on Catan :D

[@KenPlaysCatan]

I'm really lagging behind on expansions, played so much base Catan it's hard to imagine doing anything else lol. P.S. Thank you for your feedback on reddit!

[@VagabondTurtle]

@@KenPlaysCatan No probs mate, absolutely my pleasure :)

[@PriZ0nM1ke]

Awesome video! Only two minutes in and the quality is great! Only one suggestion: the quickly scrolling text during the reddit part and the pre-balanced catan boards makes me a little nauseous. I would avoid that editing style in the future!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Super useful feedback, thank you.

[@mauriciogerhardt3209]

#10: every hexagon gets activated every turn

[@randomflexi8019]

I like the gold coins in the pirate extension its just pity tokens

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yarr, did not know it was a real thing.

[@gebozinhomalvado9086]

Excellent video! To put a more personal view on this, I'd say that I don't dislike Catan per se: contrary to what you suggest, what keeps me invested and hopeful in finding new ways to play this game is actually the area control, strategy, building and trading. The dice... not so much. For dice results and that feel of "you don't know what you're gonna get" I'd much rather play something else. So... I enjoy like 95% of Catan, but heavily dislike the remaining 5% which are the dice, and they unfortunately end up tainting (in my personal opinion) the rest of what is otherwise an amazing light strategy game. As such, I'm definitely not a method #7 guy! There is also another thing I will address, which is using the tournaments as a way of proving that the game is skill-based. I'm not saying it isn't, I'm saying however that most people who played and now dislike, or get mixed feelings about Catan are far from being tournament level players. Most of the time they will be playing Catan as a gateway, family game and treat it as such, instead of a game where you can get really, really good at. Point being that the game will be played mostly by casual players, rather than just pros, and as such the game should not require high levels of commitment (which is a problem in other games, both board and videogames) to be enjoyable despite the luck factor in the dice. The game already does that in many ways, but unfortunately a single dice roll has since proven to be a rather unforgiving mechanic which puts many people off the luck factor of certain games. Not to mention that Catan tournaments, as you stated, have tournament-approved layouts, while families will be mostly using the default layout in the manual or a completely randomized board. So technically the pros tend to play with a variant as well, which is using pre-determined layouts. So when even the pros don't play default Catan... you know something's up. That said, I have to agree with you: 3 dice rolls seem like the least intrusive way to modify Catan without it losing the feel of it, while also enhancing the negotiation aspect of the game. Some may put forward the argument that the dice being unforgiving means resource scarcity, so that way you are motivated to trade. In response I'll raise this: how can you negotiate when you don't have a single resource to begin with, or resources that are of value to other players? In such cases you can't neither build, nor trade. And the least fun thing that can happen in a tabletop game is a turn where nothing happens: you don't roll the resources you need, you can't trade with anyone and you can't build anything either. It's boring. So rolling 3 dice gives some room for the resource-less player to negotiate, even when the dice roll numbers they don't benefit from. So this enhances negotiation, which is good! I will have to mention a little problem though: say you're rolling 3 dice. If you're rolling 3 dice, and one of the combinations is a 7... why would you pick that, unless somebody else has put the Robber in one of your fields? Doesn't make any sense: suddenly picking 7 becomes a very intentional thing (which can be good for a more cutthroat game) and will earn you bad rapport during the match. The default rules solve this by making the Robber something that's unavoidable. With 3 dice, you'll only benefit from the Robber if you're nearly victorious and need that one resource that one specific player has in spades. Which means the Robber becomes mostly useless, and that's not good if our intention is to improve Catan. Not only that, if nobody picks the Robber... everyone will be loaded up with cards, which means they can trade with the bank directly. We want players to build and trade as much as possible! That's the main draw of the game! I've seen 2 ways of further adjusting the variant in a quite simplified way, but I am yet to test them: - roll 3 dice, but the moment a 7 is possible, you are forced to play a 7. This makes sure that the Robber gets used, player cards are cut short (so hoarding stops being viable) and doesn't feel as confrontational since it's dictated by the dice; - roll 3 dice, but players decide on one specific die (the red die for example) that must ALWAYS be used for the final pair (so you potentially get a max of 2 choices instead of 3). If one of the two resulting combinations is a Robber, you are forced to play the Robber (contrary to the above variation, which would trigger the Robber as soon as a 7 was rolled). These open up room for negotiation and give players some control over the dice, so that way it doesn't feel like you've done nothing. At worst, you've negotiated with players, or made it so that the current leader gets less of an advantage, thus fighting off the "the rich get richer" problem Catan shares with Monopoly. The welfare/pity token is also nice, but the official version of it is a tad better: instead of picking a resource, you pick a number. It doesn't go as wild as the 3 dice variants, but still keeps it constrained within the already established rules of the game, thus preserving the feel of Catan. Might be more troublesome though. It's easier for someone to have a random die sitting at home than a poker chip set for example.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

This is incredible well thought out. Thank you for such an thoughtful comment. I think you are spot on with a lot of things, but the one that most stands out to me is your focus on making sure that whatever changes are made, the experience of Catan from the social/trading component of the game and should not be hindered. Consider yourself pinned.

[@gebozinhomalvado9086]

@@KenPlaysCatan Glad to know that you enjoyed my ramblings! Much appreciated. In the meantime, even though I couldn't test this out yet with actual players (and a couple of good ones at that), I did try to go for a few "test runs" to see how a possible game could play out. I still am not so sure about the 3 dice at this point, especially given how frequently a 7 was rolled (and made obligatory by the aforementioned house rules), but one thing's for sure: if you want choice and tough decisions that could be easily turned into negotiation opportunities, I can see the 3 dice doing their job and the Robber still being somewhat of a possible threat, while the official version of the pity token would be better suited for people that don't like to trade that much, without completely throwing the trading aspect out of the window. It's also a safer option since it was, at least at one point, supported by the creators of Catan (they did take the variant out in later manuals, but you can research a bit on the topic for a bit more of insight). But there's only so much I can test on my own by simulating plays, actual playtesting is what's needed :)

[@merevel436]

Technically not wrong. My favorite deck of play cards is missing. The other deck we have is missing a couple of cards, though there are several magic the gathering and pokemon decks laying around the house. We also have Uno, exploding kittens, trash panda and a couple more.

[@KenPlaysCatan]

You're right, I didn't specify a type of deck! Does that means the resources and development cards count too??

[@merevel436]

@@KenPlaysCatan Yes. Even my monopoly chance deck counts!

[@peterick5418]

Yup, that's a sub!

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Rub a dub dub, some likes and a sub.

[@aaronsmith6632]

Instead of Pity tokens, we played with Gold. 2 Gold = 1 resource if your choice. Very simple, very fun!

[@crownlexicon5225]

Honestly, the randomness doesn't bother me. Though, I haven't played the base game in quite a while. My family always plays with the Cities & Knights and Seafarers expansions, which, eventually, give you a resource when a number is rolled you're not on (and not a 7)

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Cities & Knights are getting a lot of love in the comments, I gotta give it a try.

[@Hailey-hh7jp]

...with skill 😯☠️

[@KenPlaysCatan]

I mean, I had to right? lol

[@wren5413]

I do have more than 3 decks of cards in my house… but only 1 is standard playing cards while the rest are Yugioh and 1 is a Pokemon deck 🙃

[@KenPlaysCatan]

I didn't specify the type of deck ;)

[@Stuffthatsfunny1]

The app is definitely fixed in a way though. If someone puts the robber on a number it will roll within 3 especially if it hasn't rolled yet

[@dutcherrct3]

My friends and I once had this horrible idea (which we actually tried): Have two 12 sided dice. One red and one green. When the green is equal or lower than red ALL numbers including the value of the red and green dice, with exception of 7, are activated. Whenever red is lower than green count the outcome as a 7. The idea is as horrible as it sounds and is even worse in RNG as there is a 50% chance of rolling a 7, but profits can be insane if you roll a large range in your own turn. It's fun to try it once, but don't expect a serious game. Depending on the roll the pain can be real and so much harder than normal Catan

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Hahahaha. I'm picturing players getting half the deck of resources on a turn, then losing them all then next turn before they can buy anything with it.

[@dutcherrct3]

@@KenPlaysCatan It gets even worse as more cities are created. At one point I had three cities connected to wool tiles. A single roll caused a nearly complete deck to instantly run out of wool. It was hilarious 😂

[@jsterdawg72]

Is it still perfect knowledge if you cannot technically track what someone's dev card is? (At least until enough are played)

[@KenPlaysCatan]

Yeah, that are a few other things, but hopefully it helped make the point.