Catholic theologian calls abortion “self-care”

In this episode Trent critically reviews a Catholic theologian’s proposal for a “new pro-life movement” that may be new but definitely isn’t pro-life.
Original article: ejournals.bc.edu/index.php/ct...
To support this channel: / counseloftrent

[@FreedomToons]

"catholic" "theologian"

[@saintsm]

So called Catholic Theologian

[@hacker4chn841]

Hey! Seamus watches this channel! Get Trent on Timcast!

[@andrewwohl3173]

When you see a youtuber (Freedom toons) talking to a youtuber (Matt Frad) and then see that same youtuber in the comments of yet another youtuber... I like the way you think

[@ladislausvmap]

If I study theology and am stupid I can still call myself theologian or expert. Sad.

[@alexpardon585]

Beat me to it

[@Emper0rH0rde]

It is not possible to be Catholic, and pro-abortion at the same time.

[@johnyang1420]

True!

[@GratiaPrima_]

Absolutely, the men should be spoken of more. When I was a young adult, my parents decided to replace the car my younger bro started driving with. They heard of a young adult couple who had gotten pregnant before marriage. Rather than trade my brother’s car in, they donated it to the young father so that he could get to a full time job, get married, and step up for his family. Everyone involved is so grateful for the way my parents, and a whole community really, stepped up in the situation. You better believe that made an impression on me when I was young.

[@thebestofmae]

Thank you for sharing! This is so inspiring. We need more of these kind of people like your parents. Hopefully I'd be one of them. :)

[@varginabrown852]

*The Right to LIFE comes BEFORE Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness for a Reason* 💯💯💯

[@willl389]

American values in general are antithetical to Christian. American federal agencies infiltrated catholicism and so this is why you get these "priests" promoting abortion, gay tolerance, and multiracialism.

[@patrickrooney971]

Technically no, there is no hierarchy of the rights. Notice that the pursuit of happiness to the writers means pursuit of christ

[@tomaszskorski6596]

@@willl389 you hit the very heart in this answer! Absolutely correct

[@tomaszskorski6596]

@@willl389 it's all about $$$$$

[@maxalaintwo3578]

@@patrickrooney971 This guy gets it

[@AClRCLEOFLlGHT]

If abortion is "Self care", why isn't a Father abandoning his child also "self care"? Same exact purpose right? Deciding you don't want a child and the responsibilities that go with it. Self care.

[@vaderetro264]

They'll tell you that being is not a person till it leaves the mother's body.

[@AClRCLEOFLlGHT]

@@vaderetro264 always creating their own new definitions.

[@Cklert]

It's in the name. It's "Selfish Care."

[@igorgaviano]

There should be quotation marks on the word "Catholic" as well...

[@elgatofelix8917]

" Catholic " More like Ko$her

[@kyrieeleison1905]

If Mary carried our Christ Jesus despite the adversity she must have faced from those around her then I don't see any excuse for anyone else.

[@dennis1662]

Kyrie Eleison. Mary was at the age for marriage and bearing children. At that time, 13 was the age at which young girls got married

[@vaskaventi6840]

@@dennis1662 Where do the scriptures say that Mary was at the average age for having children and not older?

[@sysprogmanadhoc2785]

Mary was raped

[@vaskaventi6840]

@@sysprogmanadhoc2785 kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHeTg6WwlNdnb9k

[@sysprogmanadhoc2785]

@@vaskaventi6840 Why did you send a link to a video by a Christian apologist?

[@chrismah6248]

Man, These arguments remind me so much of my mom. She constantly claims to be pro-life and yet gives every terrible pro-choice argument under the sun. Please pray that she sees the truth and repents.

[@uaenami]

While watching this, I was reminded of how Trent completely changed my mindset about this issue. I used to have no thoughts or opinions about abortion. I remember I once signed some sort of petition to stop abortion just because I was asked to in the Church, but then I also found the "my body my choice" slogan kinda logic, and some of my pro-choice friends at uni made me see things from their perspective (though I don't think any of them ever did it). The only thing I remember being told at school about abortion was that it was a woman's decision. Back then I didn't even know what abortion was. Thankfully, I now see the problem, how horrible it is and why it's important to talk about it. And it was through The Counsel of Trent podcast that I came to see this. Keep it going, Trent, it does make a difference. Is there an episode about why there is a right to life? It'd be good to have one. I think that's the basis for being pro-life, but other than it being a right in most countries, there should be a reason why life shouldn't be taken away. Many people around me don't even think that anyone's life has value.

[@charlisdad4460]

This reminds me a time I went to Confession and the priest, who is my Pastor, after confessing my sins asked: "Well, what have you been doing for you? Are you taking time out for yourself?" And, I'm like, in my head, everything I just confessed was my selfish acts done for myself! A week or so later, I went to another Parish with a more doctrinal priest, confessed and needless to say, I felt much more spiritually healed and rejuvenated.

[@storyisqueen]

The abortion issue truly the Holocaust of our day. There is no room for compromise. Anyone holding the position of safe, legal and rare is no better than the citizen of Nazi-Germany who thought that although not ideal the final solution was the only solution to what they called the Jewish problem. By the way a huge thanks to Trent for making this channel, It was one of the things that lead me to the Catholic faith. I also ask for your prayers. I’m going through a really difficult time and I need all the help I can get. Nothing helps more than prayers. Nothing.

[@lyntallon6325]

Saying an Our Father for you right now.

[@swoosh1mil]

"Our Father...." 🙏

[@shamuscrawford]

Except the abortion holocaust is real

[@takmaps]

Another proof that you don't need a degree in theology to be in accordance with God's moral law.

[@airbornkid245]

Yes! Our parish priest often says that his favorite theologian would be an Irish washerwoman! 😁

[@takmaps]

@@airbornkid245 he's a wise man 😁

[@dylanrunner2001]

@@takmaps it would be cool if Trent got his PhD though

[@takmaps]

@@dylanrunner2001 No doubt 🙏.

[@ThePhil737]

I’m very sick of pro-choice people changing the definition of “pro-life” to mean agree with them on every social and political issue. I’m not opposed to calling myself anti-abortion since it cannot be equivocated.

[@IWasOnceAFetus]

They're basically justifying their sin in the name of being pro-life. They want to apply the "pro-life" label to everything but they don't want to apply church rules to everything.

[@curiouslykristina]

Sooo so sad. Can you make a video talking about how our conscience isn’t a justifiable reason to support abortion? (Catholics For Choice hangs their whole philosophy on this principal- “we can dissent from Church teaching if our conscience doesn’t agree with the teaching”).

[@Powerfishmon]

This. Trent if you see this comment you should do a whole video on what our conscience is, and what it isn’t.

[@councilofflorence4896]

Please Trent make a video on this

[@John_Fisher]

For sure, I hope Trent covers this because of how easily people misuse "following our conscience". I think the key is that yes, we do have a duty to follow our conscience, but we have a prior duty to ensure that our conscience is well formed. "The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and *tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings* ... "In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path... We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others *and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church* " (From CCC 1783-1785).

[@sysprogmanadhoc2785]

The whole prolife argument is based on the disingenuity of ascribing identicality between a 1-hr old fetus and a born human being

[@councilofflorence4896]

@@sysprogmanadhoc2785 In reality you made the fallacious attempt at distinguishing between a fetus and a born baby to pretend the fetus isn't a human being. It is, by the way. That's basic science. I've never heard something so silly in my life, at least most pro choice advocates try to distinguish between personhood vs human being. You on the other hand, are dumber than most. Pick up any basic biology textbook and it will tell you, a human life begins at conception. "Human Embryology and Teratology, 3rd ed.," from publisher Wiley-Liss, asserts that fertilization is the "critical landmark" when a new, genetically distinct human organism is formed. A human, is a human. That 'fetus' you refer to is indeed a human being. As Harvard University Medical School professor Micheline Matthews-Ross testified before a 1981 U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, "It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception … and that this developing human always is a member of our species in all stages of life" (New York Times, April 26, 1981). In other words, Matthews-Ross was saying, a baby is a baby - from fertilization, to heartbeat, to birth. Yes, the baby of five weeks in the womb differs from the newborn, but so does the toddler differ from the teen. Scientifically, we pass through different stages as we grow, but we don't pass from person to non-person, or vice versa. At that same 1981 government hearing, Dr. Watson A. Bowes of the University of Colorado Medical School asserted: "The beginning of a single human life is from a biological point of view a simple and straightforward matter - the beginning is conception. This straightforward biological fact should not be distorted to serve sociological, political or economic goals." After examining the evidence, the Senate subcommittee reported: "Physicians, biologists and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being - a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological and scientific writings." (Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, Report, 97th Congress, 1st Session, 1981) The 37 years of scientific advancement since that subcommittee hearing have only confirmed its findings. Children survive premature birth today at younger and younger ages, demonstrating how arbitrary it is to argue life doesn't begin until a baby is "viable." And today's 3-D ultrasounds give us astonishing, heartwarming pictures, revealing that the little child in her mother's womb - is a baby. Dr. Bernard Nathanson, who co-founded the abortion advocacy group NARAL and personally presided over 60,000 abortions, later confessed in the film "The Silent Scream" that "Modern technologies have convinced us that beyond question the unborn child is simply another human being, another member of the human community, indistinguishable in every way from any of us." And at a 2014 panel discussion presented by the National Abortion Federation, Dr. Lisa Harris of Planned Parenthood of Mid and South Michigan put it even more plainly: "[Mothers] are not stupid. They know what’s in there. … It's violence. It's a person. It's killing." In his Roe v. Wade ruling in 1973, Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackmun also ignored the science, stating, "We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. … The judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate." The scientific community, however, is at virtual consensus as to when life begins. And it's precisely because Blackmun dodged that question in his 1973 Roe ruling that we're still arguing about abortion today.

[@ragelikecage4012]

The amount of times I've seen people make the violinist argument because of the Texas abortion law is "too damn high!" No one ever stops to think the difference between the nature of pregnancy and sex vs forced organ donations.

[@abotramp6199]

At least pro-choicers are actually forced to make arguments now in favour of their position instead of just dismissing anything that a pro-life advocate says.

[@MissPopuri]

I would look at the provision in the Texas Law where it supposedly talks about informing on people who escort a woman to get an abortion or suing private citizens. The panic involved in having someone take you to task for violating a bond of trust is actually rich coming off the mask mandate where everyone on the Left wants you to put on a mask and socially distance. My dad has said a number of times that if it doesn’t hurt you then you shouldn’t worry about it; of course, this is one of those cases, in matters of impurity, where a general miasma occurs in you learn to live with something even though it will drag you to hell. The Left want their side to be 100% pure, but no one will be able to if they keep digging up old wounds festering for years. Andrew Cuomo lost his governorship in New York because they were too focused on remedying situations that were more complex by any stretch of the imagination than some of modest inclination could accomplish.

[@josephmoya5098]

I feel like this conversation on a "new pro-life movement" is really co-opting the phrase, "I don't want abortion to be illegal, I want it to be unthinkable." What pro-lifers mean by that is they want to go beyond the law and change the culture. What these others mean is "ignore the legality."

[@nofragmentado]

Always learn a lot from you, the only thing is that my head doesn’t reten as I would like 🙃🤨😊 Thank you Trent

[@jorgemartinez123]

Thanks for sharing the talents God gave you. It helps a lot! God bless, brother.

[@SterlingJames]

Great talk! God bless you and your family. Love you Trent

[@jenzimmerman9079]

Totally agree about including men. When I bring this up in arguments, I hear such menbashing. There seems to be a default to blame men whether the decision to abort stems from rape or incest or neither, while I think of the men who feel powerless to protect their children in the face of their girlfriend choosing to terminate.

[@catholicrakelle]

Yeah those arguments hold no water. Great video, Trent!

[@jancegin2337]

The story with the two people that fell in love in to a "fairytale love story" while the woman had an abortion is one of the most disgusting things I've ever read up there with Baudelaire's A Rotting Corpse.

[@carynschmidt5061]

I'd like to know how often looking at their existing children causes them to think about the one they killed. They could have had that conversation that made them fall in love while that baby was still in existence It also makes me think how often my own kids ask my husband and I how we met and fell in love. What do these two tell their kids?

[@marypinakat8594]

Keep up your great work☆ God bless you heaps☆

[@bgonzalez3058]

May GOD continue to bless you, Trent, for speaking the TRUTH always. I pray for you always 🙏🙏🙏📿📿📿🙏🙏🙏

[@junacebedo888]

I'm skeptical about that "non-traditional fairy tale love story"

[@kirakira1212]

I've read some post from pro-choicers saying being pro-choice is not pro-abortion. Then it tried to justify this saying. While reading this, I thought to myself, which part of being OK with aborting a fetus just bec "you are not ready" or "do not want to bring another person in this world just suffer" is not, ultimately, pro-abortion?? At this point, they are really just trying to humanise this "pro-choice" movements when it's really a plain fetal genocide

[@moderncaleb3923]

I'm excited to hear you'll be debating Nathan Nobis, I've been following his blog for a little while ever since I read his co-authored book 'Thinking Critically About Abortion', I'm sure he'd be a great interlocuter.

[@IWasOnceAFetus]

I haven't read Nobis' book but Dr. Hendrik van der Breggen wrote a book ("Untangling Popular Pro-choice Arguments: Critical Thinking about Abortion) in response to Nobis' book. Pretty helpful, especially for beginners.

[@extract8058]

Have you spoken with Michael Voris?

[@gabrielebianchi161]

Excellent Excellent work here Trent!!!

[@tanjagantner6685]

Let her be anathema.

[@whaddup691]

The “Christian virtue of ‘self care’” I must have missed that virtue in CCD

[@buddytrevino8259]

Abortion is one of the most black and white issues that gets so much circle talk. Continue the good work Trent!

[@thomaskorah4115]

This is too much logic for the pro-choice defender. ;-)

[@xavieryounger1631]

I love Trent, but I cringe every time he says abortion goes against feminism when it’s actually a direct consequence of feminism.

[@aceraphael]

I am in a dilemma when some Catholics support feminism as a good thing which is distorted today. And some are strongly against it. I personally think it has long outlived its purpose.

[@tripkings547]

The problem with feminism is that it was hijacked by professional propagandists roping in a more gullible and spoiled part of many generations. When abortion was becoming a more hot button issue, Many feminists apart of the so-called "first-wave feminism" were actively against abortion claiming it to be a crime against motherhood and women. It was the idea of women being more like men rather than women simply having equal rights to men that gave birth to this twisted version of feminism that exist today. Or rather it's the idea that conflating being more like men(sleeping around without worrying about getting pregnant) with the idea of equal rights to men became more widespread in feminists circles, which these ideas are not the same things. I think Trent is attempting to reclaim that original first wave feel for the term feminism, however the term has become so twisted from what it once was, I don't know how feasible that is.

[@IWasOnceAFetus]

He's probably referring to actual feminism. Go check out the "Feminists For Life" organisation. They use the same line of reasoning that Trent uses.

[@xavieryounger1631]

@@tripkings547 The fundamental goal of feminism was always to disrupt the traditional role women and men play in society. This has proven to be unequivocally negative. Married couples are as likely to get divorced as they are to stay married, the rates of anxiety and depression among women have increased dramatically both relative to men and in absolute numbers, probably because they’re not biologically designed to be making spreadsheets for their boss but rather to raise children in the home, the nuclear family has been destroyed, children are growing up without a mom and a dad in the same house, the country is collapsing, how has feminism actually helped this country? China and Russia are currently on pace to overtake the United States as the leading world superpowers. It’s no coincidence that these *serious* countries promote masculinity and generally reject feminism. Remember in March when feminists were crying about China implementing a mandatory “cool-off” period for married couples trying to divorce, and divorces fell by about 70%? That’s because they hate the idea of a woman actually having to stay married to a man and raise her kids. No-fault divorce, promiscuity, single parenthood, abortion, gender theory, gay marriage, lots of American vices can really be traced back to feminism.

[@xavieryounger1631]

@Roger Mills Yeah, saying women should stay home to raise their kids instead of finishing up expense reports is unthinkable.

[@williamgibson2760]

Great job capturing the essence of the mind-set this supposed "Catholic theologian" Saw some reference she had in a footnote about her being a ("white") "cisgender, heterosexual" "well-educated, well-fed woman" etc. She's not a feminist, she's a whatever that has taken the hook line & sinker on CRT, so-called "gender fluidity", etc. Let's all pray for her and, Trent, please keep helping us all with this awareness and learning. I'm so far down the pecking order in understanding how incoherent the "intellectual/theological" arguments can be ...... and how this influences/pressures Bishops, priests, and us lay-folk.

[@carissstewart3211]

A "pro-life" essayist who thinks abortion should be legal is like an abolitionist who thinks slavery should be legal. I mean, Scarlet O'Hara had slaves in Gone With the Wind, and that's a romantic movie!

[@tell-me-a-story-]

Gone with the wind was an interesting movie because both the main characters are horribly unlikable, (Scarlett is petty, jealous, and spoiled, while Rett is abusive, manipulative, and really creepy to Scarlett while she’s still a teen) But it’s the only time where I’ve seen a movie with unlikeable protagonists where I actually found them sympathetic. I think it’s just because they suffer so much that you feel bad for them. They didn’t deserve what they went through, especially Scarlett. Not really related but I’ve had these thoughts in the movie ever since I watched it as a 13 year old.

[@protheroenigma4441]

Wow that's one way to separate oneself from reality. Just to justify a means, I find it sickening. They are on the edge of jumping off the Catholic ship.

[@VACatholic]

Don't let the devil convince you to run away from Christ's Church. Judas exists.

[@charlesthin4621]

Trent, with all due respect, and although I totally agree with all you say in this - I think you however fail to see and/or acknowledge to points that this person makes : - Yes, it is a cause for anger when strict rules are applied that get people fired like in her example, while at the same time the church is still coping with all the abuses from priests. Although that is not an argument at all for anything, I think she's crying to be understood in her righteous anger, and I think acknowledging that no strings attached (since it can't be an argument for anything) would have been charitable. - Yes, it's important to walk with women who came to the decision to get an abortion and tell them that you see and understand how they came to this decision, even though you now (and hopefully they soon) see that it was wrong. You can't just tell someone that something they did is wrong. You also must stand with them in their weakness - maybe also hash out with them the good motivations they had, despite the choice of bad means ! And also the evil motivations, if any. And all the while be vulnerable and say "I too sometimes am weak, have evil motivations, or come to bad decisions on the grounds of good motivations.". This goes for men too, and does not preclude the fact that abortion should be made illegal. But otherwise people just say "You don't understand why I did what I did, therefore I cannot accept you telling me that it was wrong."

[@iqgustavo]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:03 🤨 Catholic theologian criticizes articles undermining Catholic faith and morality. 01:02 🗣️ Pro-life advocate seeks to have in-person dialogue with pro-choice philosopher. 02:54 🚫 Being pro-life means believing abortion should generally be illegal. 05:14 📜 Discussion of a fired teacher's situation and implications on pro-life stance. 08:16 🙅‍♀️ Argument that restricting abortion is restricting women's agency. 12:51 🧠 Discussion of indirect vs. direct killing and citing references that support a pro-choice view. 18:29 😡 Disagreement with celebrating a love story originating from an abortion. 19:39 🤔 Exploration of the concept of self-care in the context of abortion. 21:57 💔 Critique of justifying abortion as self-care and its impact on women and men involved. 22:10 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 Involving fathers in addressing abortion and their responsibility is crucial. 23:21 💡 Rejecting efforts to make abortion illegal shifts the pro-life movement away from its core mission.

[@gonzaloderomana775]

Great job Trent!

[@Mokinono45]

"compassionate" "catholic" "conservatism" Also stunning and brave

[@halleylujah247]

Which one of those is odd to you? Tropes, and media assumptions aside give me examples of pro choice people or liberals that do half as much for society and women as the Catholic church or pro life groups do. Actual facts not your feelings on this. Feelings are not measurable scientifically.

[@IWasOnceAFetus]

@@halleylujah247 I'd like to know too. Pro-lifers do a lot of things for both women and children. The media just ignores it.

[@MM22272]

My former "Catholic" theology professor believed in "situational ethics" and fundamental preference of love for God, and regarded pro-lifers as "fundamentalists". Our course textbook referenced Catholics for Choice, a pro-choice Catholic organization. There was no way out with the professor. It was scandalzing. There wasn't any evident help or support among the clergy. I had no other recourse but to look to KZbin apologists for refuge.

[@theunknownone2189]

You should debate David Bernard

[@kyrieeleison1905]

No, I do not find common ground with these females who have rejected the honour of motherhood and have their children's blood on their hands.

[@ryanleclaire3948]

I thought it was Fr James Martin for a minute.

[@Giorginho]

Trent, are you going to be debating Jay Dyer?

[@myrddingwynedd2751]

It`s indicative of how far humanity has fallen that we have to debate whether or not murder should be legal or illegal.

[@JoKe27]

Two people bonding over killing another human being.. thats just sick.

[@jogo5660]

It seems my first comment was deleted. Is it not allowed to include links in a comment?

[@squirrels24seven]

youtube often deletes comments with links, because many bot comments have links, though sometimes they slip passed. just youtube itself

[@generalguy6211]

There are laws against labeling foods things that the food is not. Could we do it with the label 'Catholic'?

[@evaschroeder4020]

This will catch up with them if they ever realize what they've done.

[@ethanwork764]

Take a shot every time the writers in this video say “self”

[@tell-me-a-story-]

I’m five foot two and female, I’d probably die..😢

[@aahlstrom93]

SMH. Shaking my head.

[@ironymatt]

Ah, pining for those wanton days of yore, whence debates were done in person

[@johnyang1420]

Self care? Ok….the only problem is that someone dies.

[@DanielWoike]

I do wonder when Trent talks about how it is unjust for children not to have their biological mother and father, would that mean that Trent would be for using the state to force the parents to marry. Now later in the video he says that the father doesn't necessarily need to marry the mother, because every situation is different. Well I guess that means in that case, the child doesn't have a right (at least in the legal sense) to their biological mother and father in marriage. This is the thing with using terms like just and unjust, etc. I do think a parent of a child has responsibility to their child, how exactly the state is involved in this (other than of course not allowing abortion) is where things aren't clear. I say this, only because when we use terms like "rights" "just" and "unjust" we need to make sure we define these things and see where they go when you take them to their logical conclusion.

[@JohnEButton]

@Trent, I really respect you as an apologist for your willingness to debate anyone and really test the strength of your arguments. Genuine question: it's my understanding that the catholic church, being prolife, doesn't agree with the death penalty, except in some cases. Are there any cases in which the catholic church would support an abortion? (Even any conceivable case.)

[@danielpeters4302]

To my understanding, abortion in it of itself is not permissible. However, say a woman is pregnant and has terminal cancer, it would be her choice to choose to treat herself. However, the treatment kills the child, not direct killing of the child via Suction, Plyers and such like that. Intention of actions does matter in this effort. Other than that, no.

[@JohnEButton]

@@danielpeters4302 Interesting. It's interesting that there are conditions in which we are justified in killing in the Catholic Church (just war, certain death penalty cases, etc.). I wonder what the necessary and sufficient conditions are for saying when abortion is wrong.

[@st.mephisto8564]

@@EireAbu So imagine a drugged individual out of his senses, swinging at you with an axe do would you not kill him because he's technically not "Intentionally" trying to kill you and hereby innocent? This 100% ban on all scenarios is an unjust law and it was Aquinas who said that an unjust law is no law at all.

[@IWasOnceAFetus]

the answer is usually in the definition of abortion that they use. I've seen many Catholics refer to Pope John Paul 2's definition (direct abortion that is willed as a means or as en end). The disagreements come about in what constitutes intentional and direct abortions. For instance, many ethicists agree that salpingectomy is a morally permissible method for treating tubal ectopic pregnancy because it doesn't directly affect the body of the embryo and the embryo's death is only brought about as a side effect of removing the damaged maternal tissue. These same ethicists see Salpingostomy and methotrexate as impermissible. However, there are other ethicists who say that salpingostomy and methotrexate are also not direct and intentional and therefore justified. From what I've read in his book, I think Trent holds the former position (although I may be wrong about it).

[@ghostapostle7225]

@@st.mephisto8564 You should avoid to kill him, but if protecting yourself or someone else has the unintended side effect of kill him, then it's morally licit. Don't know how this example disprove anything Saints and Scholars said. Probably you don't know what "intention" really means. And who said that quote originally was St. Augustine, not St. Aquinas.

[@scurvydog20]

I've never understood the incest caveat. Either the incest was consensual in which case why is it it's own thing or if it was nonconsensual then it falls under rape.

[@jendoe9436]

Think it’s along the lines of ‘incest = increased health risks’ if I’m being charitable. Used to think that, but as mentioned then it’s either rape or consensual with more moral issues (sleeping with family is generally looked down upon, even in the Bible).

[@mariacisneros6114]

🙏

[@arthurdevain754]

Elective abortion is always, Always, ALWAYS murder -- murder most foul. One of the "Spiritual Works of Mercy" is to admonish the sinner, so I tell all abortionists, "God's gonna get you for that!"

[@calopsitamusica7752]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@vincentswift7]

Sounds like the lesser of two evils argument sorry my catechism used to say never right to commit a sin to save the world Trying to get around the obvious by dilution is typical of these people not a question of numbers one is just as wrong as many Once you start making excuses for sin you're going down the drain

[@AnthonyWiggle115]

Trent I know you may look at the comments here and there but I just wanted to say hi.

[@camilomontoya7412]

Cannot blame people for leaving

[@jpcorreag]

I'm always suspicious when someone introduce him/herself as a theologian. Most of them are more interested in being right.

[@hacker4chn841]

These people need to be excommunicated and banned from the internet for spreading fake news like us right-wingers are. Abortion is terribly harmful to women.

[@hacker4chn841]

@Roger Mills How do you know what's fake and what isn't? Do you believe the mainstream media line that Ivermectin is a "horse de-wormer"? This is the definition of misleading/fake news. While there is a version of Ivermectin designed for horses, it's also commonly prescribed for humans to treat a variety of parasitical infections and is currently being studied as a treatment for Malaria and Yellow Fever. This is all to say it's a drug that has approval for use in humans and that CNN is just as guilty of spreading fake news as anyone on the right.

[@Klee99zeno]

the debate is little different now because the standard slogan "My body, my choice" has an application to wearing masks or taking vaccine.

[@LuisOrtiz-uo4fr]

Has anyone commented that the choice of the woman comes at the time of engaging in an act that could result in the conception of a child? Just wondering.

[@kenhonea8340]

is the fertilized egg in a dish now part of the dish is the fertilized egg in a woman's body now part of her body.

[@kadeshswanson3991]

Along the lines at the 4min marker would it be feasible then to advocate for non abortificiate contraceptives? I ask because when I "debate" or talk with prochoice peoples I understand how multifaceted this issue is. Thats to say that there is an underlying cause to the phenomenon of abortion. Lack of sexual education, lack of community support or supplies for women that get pregnant.... etc So would it be ok then to say that in such cases one could be ok with contraceptives for the sake of reducing abortions overall? I just don't want to look like I'm talking out both sides of my mouth as a devote catholic.

[@annat4209]

The problem is that the end (fighting against abortion) does not justify the means (promoting contraception). Besides, widespread promotion and provision of contraception does not serve the purpose of eliminating abortion anyway, because a widespread access to contraception leads to behaviour changes (people are more likely to engage in sexual encounters they wouldn’t normally engage in if pregnancy were a probable outcome). Contraception gives people a false sense of security. Also, it would make sense that more people who already have their mind set against conceiving a life will be more likely to choose abortion in case contraception doesn’t work.

[@MM22272]

Great work, Trent! We need to hear this from God's ambassadors: the bishops who set or fail to set the moral tone for the entire country and world.

[@aretrograde7745]

The pic in the thumbnail is atrocious.

[@el4276]

there is a vid by paul and morgan on recent prolife/abortion news and it could really use some views an likes

[@biankapaloma]

Whenever a pro choice gives excuses for the murder of babies, they always use "injustice". But always focusing in the adult, the adult woman; the consenting adult, and NEVER the injustice towards the baby.

[@gussetma1945]

Fewer

[@niteal1255]

Abortion equals, I am too stupid to know where babies come from.

[@jorgemorales3784]

Back in the times of Our lord Jesus Christ, if you could not get pregnant it was a bad thing, but now it is switched. Just disgusting.

[@FirstLast-po8oz]

lol, un related but my mother is the only person I know who uses smh

[@MM22272]

If impregnating men are expected to provide, they can only do so with God's grace, but most are not accessing God's sacraments.

[@rationalraven8956]

I generally agree, but I also think we should not let perfect be the enemy of good. I am in favour of reducing abortions. Yes I would ultimately like to reduce it to zero, but any reduction is progress in my opinion. Sure it should be illegal, but in a society that doesn't value human life, we should look at other methods of protecting human life that don't rely on the legal system.

[@shepardabraham2574]

Jeremiah 2: 33 & 35 "Why trimmest thou thy way to seek love? therefore hast thou also TAUGHT the WICKED ones thy WAYS. Also IN THY SKIRTS IS FOUND THE BLOOD of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these. Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me. Behold, I will plead with thee, because thou sayest, I have not sinned." Pretty clear it is saying the nation of Israel (Jer 2:30-32) was unfaithful to God, like a wife cheating on her husband, that jumps person to person, then had many abortions. Clearly, God finds it 'wicked ways.'

[@frederick3523]

We need to stop talking about child murder in liberal terms like "pro choice" or "pro life". The whole pro life movement is a failure in concept from the beginning. I'm not "pro life" I'm anti-Child murder

[@shamuscrawford]

Dialogs with people that believe in abortion should never take place there's nothing to say to them. If someone says I believe there are circumstances where we should kill children, I'll tell that person to rot in hell. Not every opinion is a valid debate, some are just inhumane and disgusting

[@gxhcbchchvfhbxsddvp96trg]

"Feminist" is not a positive adjective, nor is the same as "being pro women".

[@cinnamondan4984]

I am glad that the Catholic Church stays whole while having opposing views within.

[@marinanguish9928]

I feel like Catholic should've been in quotes in this title.

[@MM22272]

Feminists may not agree with this view.

[@gabrielebianchi161]

When are you going to address the "J" Question, Trent??? LOL You know its a massive part of Catholic history that can't be ignored. LOL

[@squirrels24seven]

Whats that

[@gabrielebianchi161]

@@squirrels24seven look it up my friend lol, who has the church been brawling with for literally 2000 year. LOL

[@squirrels24seven]

@@gabrielebianchi161 I litterally did, and nothing about the church pops up.

[@gabrielebianchi161]

@@squirrels24seven you are very low information.

[@squirrels24seven]

@@gabrielebianchi161 ok, is the J question also called the Jewish question? something about that popped up.

[@JohnEButton]

@Trent...since you brought up rape and incest cases, does the church have a position on the parental rights of the rapist? Thanks for your answer

[@squirrels24seven]

hola trent

[@cerb4414]

Basado el Trent Cuerno

[@rainbowbananapencil1540]

Even if a child is likely to die soon after birth, we should let nature take its course and give the child food, water and comfort measures. Then the family will be able to hold the baby and love the baby, rather than violently end its life.

[@kyrieeleison1905]

Feminist twaddle barely covered with a flimsy garment of "Catholicism" that keeps slipping down exposing itself.

[@b4u334]

I think there is a problem to acknowledge with the case of the fired teacher who kept her illegitimate child. Jesus came most of all for the worst sinners. He showed the utmost compassion to sinners and even committed scandal (*gasp*, sarcasm) by spending time with them. Was not St. Paul potentially a murderer? If only the Apostles knew the full understanding of Catholic doctrine as understood today, they could have clued Jesus in. But seriously, I understand the prudential decision to fire this employee, however, it’s not as clear cut as Trent is making it seem as one could easily argue the opposite. Catholics are called to love the sinner and hate the sin. Keeping her on could have been a testament to God’s mercy. It’s not our job to provide her temporal punishment. We love to zero in on God’s justice at the expense of his mercy.

[@swoosh1mil]

We have to be careful not to sacrifice justice for the sake of mercy either; least mercy appear as acceptance. Rather, justice needs to be served with mercy; and mercy be demonstrated through justice. I don't think it is temporal punishment either. God alone can judge hearts(and be the judge of what the punishment is and for how long), but Christians do bare a responsibility to hold each oher accountable for wrong or indecent doings. We gotta call it to the sinner's attention when we see it...justifully and mercifully. She lost her job (sad and unfortunate) but she did not lose her chance at eternal life in heaven so long as she confesses contritfully to God.

[@b4u334]

​@@swoosh1mil Without getting into every point, I do not agree with your understanding of accountability and drawing awareness to the sinner's sin ("when we see it" - you didn't see it). Even if I did agree, that does not equate to her losing her job, her livelihood. Scandal sits at the heart of this issue. However, the fact that she is illegitimately pregnant is not intrinsically evil, per se, since the evil act occurred previously. She simply bears the physical manifestation of her past sin. I couldn't begin to think of the gasps if all sitting in the pews at mass bore the physical reminders of their past sin. Under your rule, everyone would be entitled to hold one another accountable and call attention to their sins. It would be just in fact, regardless of whether those individuals already repented and were in the state of grace. Further, the faithful need to be aware of the culture of death, abortion. This relative cultural milieu does lessen the burden of guilt from sin. It is a valid point that she did not get an abortion. The reasons mothers get abortion go beyond simple selfishness to the avoidance of mockery, scorn, and shame they endure from their mistake. Pushing this mother out when she most needed help is opposite of the example Jesus set. Mary Magdalene? Your reaction is that of the Apostles and Pharisees at Jesus' embrace of sinners, Gentiles, Assyrians, and Samaritans. How could Jesus condone these sins??? It's because he's not. He's converting them. Observers are the ones mistaken.

[@swoosh1mil]

@@b4u334 I mean when the sin comes to light - not literally 'see it'. I myself work in a field where there are high standards and expectations. I went in knowing what's expected and I agreed to meet that. She went in knowing what was expected of her and the consequences of failure when not met. We can explain our actions, but explanations don't excuse actions. Actions have consequences. And just as you said, her being pregnant is not the sin, but a physical manifestation of the sin (thank you for the clarification). She can always get a job in another school, it's not the end of her teaching career.

[@b4u334]

@@swoosh1mil What you are implying is that because the Catholic school has legal rights to fire this woman as they please, they were in fact also morally justified. The decision to keep this woman on may or may not have been a necessity, but just because the school created a policy and followed through with it doesn’t mean it was also a good Catholic decision. What is the goal here?

[@childasleepzombie]

I don't think the comparison of the moral responsibility of men who rape and women who have abortions are the same. This is because society recognizes rape as evil but generally considers abortion a moral good. There are women who are threatened and coerced into having abortions and many have been made to believe there is nothing wrong with it. When I was in college it was borderline celebrated. However almost every man knows rape is wrong. The rest is very helpful!

[@leonardu6094]

None of what you just said is actually relevant to the point and will easily break down if you meet even just one guy who claims he believes rape is a moral right he has. Just as liberals say abortion is a moral right.

[@anglicanaesthetics]

Killing your infant-oh ya know, self care. Chopping up your offspring so you can rest up a bit/work/whatever, just some good “self care”. Gross 🤮

[@jdoe7674]

I mean if popular Christian belief is correct then I’m guessing there’s a whole lot of people in hell right now wishing there mom had just chose to chop them up instead

[@leonardu6094]

@@jdoe7674 huh?

[@jdoe7674]

@@leonardu6094 Christian’s believe in an age of accountability for heaven which most think is 12 so after 12 if they say they wanna be an atheist there essentially screwed and going to hell so if that’s true it would have been better for there mom to abort them assuring that they go to heaven

[@kenhonea8340]

God said Mary was with child before she had given birth to our Lord and Savior. Biblical proof that God thinks babies in the womb are children.

[@love2o9]

I have a question: Why is it possible for God to kill people because He made them and not okay for a woman to kill their child because she made them? Don't get me wrong, I'm pro-life, I'm just not sure why

[@reggiestickleback7794]

What kind of fairy tales do these people read?!

[@sysprogmanadhoc2785]

Trumpt Harm, prolifer, and a prochoicer were having a fierce debate in a restaurant "A 6 wk old fetus has no consciousness" "Yes, it is a baby, an unborn human baby" "Its a fetus, an human egg" "no it's a baby, an unborn baby, killing it is murder" Eventually the sultry waitress comes over to take their orders "Steak n' chips(fries) please" says the prochoicer. "And I'll have the chicken n' chips (fries)" says Trumpt They continue their fierce debate 25 mins later the waitress comes over: here's your steak n' chips sir......and here's your chicken n'chips sir Trumpt exclaims "b...bu....but this is egg n' chips. I asked for chicken n'chips!!! Well y'see sir, says the waitress. I overheard your conversation with your colleague. You mentioned how a fetus is an unborn human baby "Yeah, so what ?" says Trumpt The waitress retorted "well, you see this egg sir....it's an unborn chicken baby"