CATL's sodium batteries will be 30% cheaper & revolutionise the world

CATL's sodium batteries will be 30% cheaper & revolutionise the world.
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[@MichaelSmith-px1ev]

Game over coal, Gas, Nuclear, Hydro, if you can get batteries to do grid storage at 40.00 per kWh and manufacture it at mass scale it is transform a lot of grids world wide

[@electricviking]

I’m pinning your comment.

[@MichaelSmith-px1ev]

Thanks let hope this is a commercial viable option for companies to act before “they” put that gas plant in

[@garry8390]

Hate to burst your bubble but reneawables and superpower are total bulls*t. You and the guy the who made the video are clearly new to all this but with enough reading it will become obvious to you as well. NUCLEAR IS THE ONLY LONG TERM OPTION at scale.

[@MichaelSmith-px1ev]

@@garry8390 sorry Barry you obviously missed the cost element. Nuclear is the most expensive option it is cheaper to invest in coal than Nuclear and before you start talking about the smaller nuclear reactors yes I have considered those as well.

[@garry8390]

@@MichaelSmith-px1ev Reactors are only expensive to build in the West. In Russia and china they can build them for a fraction of the cost. Nearly half of the cost is the cost of capital which is ridiculous. The only reason nuclear is expensive is because of politics and corruption. We could be carbon negative worldwide in a decade if engineers were given political support to make it happen.

[@AllenTaylor-lu9bu]

I was an electrical apprentice back in the 70's. At college we were told about the advantages of the sodium battery but the following year all mention of this future technology was removed, always wandered why...

[@wakannnai1]

In the 70s, they were actively researching between Lithium and Sodium. Lithium made the breakthroughs first, so it became the dominant technology.

[@Buzzhumma]

Magnesium batteries also show great promise. The ion is snaller than lithium and half the size of sodium which translates to energy density along with abundance.

[@Buzzhumma]

I like the idea of renewables along with abundant ion storage like sodium but the liquid metal battery by ambri is really great for suburban communities storage and don’t forget the tokamak reactor. If that keeps progressing at the rate that it is then humanity will not have to worry about energy storage ever again!

[@devonbikefilms]

Been watching a few of your presentations. Very much enjoy them and your really good analysis of the electric market, not just EVs. I agree these are exciting times and the implications of the coming change is huge.

[@electricviking]

Thanks Brian. :)

[@curtissharris8914]

Byproduct of desalination is salt need a market for that

[@maxwellschaphorst8050]

Keep in mind there's lots of contaminants in the saltwater besides Sodium.. lots of magnesium as well, and others I can't remember. There will be more steps to the process to purify the brine.

[@Ebbrush3]

that was my first thought

[@peterjol]

I would just be happy if I could easily afford to keep warm in the winter :)

[@bernardfinucane2061]

You have an insulation problem, not an energy problem.

[@lowrads3653]

Thermal mass works extremely well in dry climates.

[@kenknight4560]

Get a rescue dog.

[@magellanmax]

Get an electric blanket.

[@TecnamTwin]

Using the latest in efficient housing design could reduce heating and cooling costs to almost nothing. It’s a real shame that almost all new housing is still not using basic efficiency principles that would save owners so much money. An extra $200/mon. on my mortgage to save significantly more than that in gas and electricity would be most welcome.

[@davefroman4700]

Ok first of all? Lithium is NOT a rare element. If you look on the periodic table of elements you will find it directly above sodium amongst the rest of the common elements on the left hand side of the chart. Rare elements are in the bottom right of the quadrant. Secondly new direct lithium extraction is already in implementation that will reduce the cost of lithium extraction by 50% while increasing production efficiency 8x, while solving ALL of the environmental issues currently associated with its extraction. It can even be used to extract lithium from sea water. The oceans are full of it. It is a metallic salt itself.

[@lowrads3653]

We have lots of industries with brine waste discharge issues, so domestic diversions would be an attractive alternative to dumping in the Mississippi River basin. My overriding interest is end of life prospects for NIBs versus other options.

[@martinthacker]

I'm not so sure these are cheaper than LiFePO4 though, I was reading that they have a cycle life of only 1000, and LiFePO4 cells are often rated at 4000+. so these will need to be more than 4X cheaper per Kwh than the Iron Phosphate to even consider them in grid storage. Am I missing something?

[@electricviking]

CATL says they will be much cheaper after a few years. We’ll see.

[@trungson6604]

Many applications that has low-cycling requirement like back-up batteries for homes or for RE installations or like lead-acid car batteries with very shallow cycling...would be perfect for Na-ion batteries. Lead-acid batteries are very popular yet very low cycle ability in comparison to Li-ion.

[@wakannnai1]

They're not going to be used in Grid Storage (except maybe in China). You're not missing anything. Currently there are other battery solutions (that are significantly better) like what Form Energy (Iron Air batteries at 1/10 the cost per kwh) or Ambri (liquid metal batteries) are doing. These are true Grid Scale solutions built from the ground up for grid integration. Sodium Ion batteries are projected to be cheap, but these grid scale solutions are far cheaper at scale. In regards to EVs, I expect this to fill out the lower spectrum of EVs in the $10-20k range. There's a definite market for these in these lower income developing markets and maybe even the west. With a cost of say $36/kWh mixed with higher end Lithium Ion technologies, you can dramatically cut costs on the packs. Something with 32kWh would now cost $1561.60 vs $3200 (at current prices) for the battery pack with no exotic cooling necessary. Of course, there's still a lot of questions here. Solid Power is projected to hit a cost of $56 per kWh with their solid state battery technology at 350Wh/kg in 2025. The $640 of savings might not be worth it for US or European markets where the weight savings might allow for cost cutting on other components like the motor or the required safety features because it's a much lighter car.

[@joe7272]

@@wakannnai1 no way a battery using *table salt* is going to be dirt cheap once production scales. At that point the manufacturing and copper become larger costs

[@Dave5843-d9m]

@@joe7272 Copper is also a cost for all the transformers and interconnect cables between the diffusely located wind turbines, solar farms and grid batteries. A 3MWH battery sounds great but a 100 megawatt nuke makes 33 times as much power - CONTINUOUSLY. The Moltex waste burner has a thermal store so a 500MW reactor can power 1500 MW of turbines that ramp up and down to meet daily demands and/or fill in for renewables. Fuel costs are negative because it reduces stocks of the ultra long lived stuff that we really can’t deal with build and operating costs are low because it’s intrinsically safe. All nukes are incredibly safe but none can rival that.

[@matthewmanzi9504]

I would have to see more specific information and see how it is in real life. Li PO4 is not far behind in cost and should only keep getting better. This could free up some lithium in the short term but time will tell if it can make a dent in the market.

[@kennedy6971]

Im 50 and i think its a big stretch to think we will have more energy then we need anytime soon. Lets try and get clean energy sustainable first. Its baby steps to the finishline if we are to maximize its potential.. Super conductivety at room temperature could honestly make us clean in 10yrs.. Think of the earth as one giant grid. Its always sunny on half the planet.. Sodium ion is one piece of a giant puzzle

[@bru512]

Cheap renewable energy technology is here today. We are now in the scaling-up phase. It will scale faster than many people realize because it is now cheaper than all of the alternatives.

[@tatradak]

Could this be used say on a trailer behind a car.. So the trailer becomes the range extender?

[@TKevinBlanc]

I didn't know that the metric shit-ton was a common measure in Australia, as it is here in the U.S.

[@geodun]

It is a shit-tonne, get your units right :)

[@kieranh2005]

The shit-ton is a fairly common measurement across the English speaking world. Two variations exist, the Metric Shit-tonne and the Shit-ton, which is the imperial equivalent and is slightly larger, using the long ton measurement.

[@electricviking]

Hahaha!

[@TKevinBlanc]

@@geodun Many countries, separated by a common language.

[@frithsteadfarm904]

Do they also use the C hair system? I need answers

[@whosayzwhat]

Would be nice to have production in the West,....

[@jerrymoxlow8249]

The biggest question is home battery storage? How much will it cost, how low can you discharge, how long do they last?

[@vanekirk]

Nice job. First time seeing you. Liked and subscribed.

[@jianyang6281]

does it burn? I mean i am still a bif fan of BYD blade battery.

[@oatlegOnYt]

There is a factor even more important than just raw material costs. It's scalability. While lithium mines could take time to open and new technologies to lower the extraction cost take time, sodium came from salt which extraction could be immediate as a byproduct of sea water desalination. In other words... sodium availability could grow triple digit without bit problems, while so big growth ratio on lithium will bring volatile prices for sure. For the market of low/medium energy density, sodium will be the reference as soon as the costs break the starting barrier and turn cheaper than lithium. Of course, that only be true if no new battery chemicals arrive with even better characteristics soon.

[@johnmanderson2060]

Very good video! Thanks 🙏🏼

[@electricviking]

Thanks John.

[@chrisgriffiths2533]

Absolutely We Need Large Scale Grid Batteries. Hope these Sodium Batteries can Deliver.

[@mreyesonthelies4386]

With more energy than is needed, I think the priority will be withdrawing the co2 out of the air as fast as possible, to get it down to a safe level! We can worry about other uses once the biosphere is safe and stable.

[@willm5814]

Great information! I agree this is an amazing time have been waiting for it since the OPEC oil crisis of ‘ 72 - it’s happening!!

[@electricviking]

Cheers Will.

[@kennedy6971]

This is huge! If they have worked out the problems with the number of charge cycles then the future will be sodium ion (zinc should be next)

[@Alrukitaf]

There is already zinc in flow batteries. Too heavy for use in cars though.

[@beakytwitch7905]

Zinc is a scarce metal as well.

[@vinhqngouoc]

@@Alrukitaf intended for home solar system

[@royalmontpark]

They just did lol

[@tatradak]

Could this material be used for super or pseudo capacitors

[@dharma2035]

I would love to see water desalination plants powered by renewable energy with the waste brine used as raw material for grid level battery storage.

[@mkvenu7474]

You are right... World will have more energy than required... Only the time line given looks a bit early

[@danc2014]

We were supposed to use the old li batteries as storage because it not sufficient for car use but ok for storage. Hope the li recycling plan works soon else there will be lots of batteries in the trash soon.

[@stevenlilley8045]

“What would you do with extra energy ?” Whatever is needed most for the most people, the first priority ensuring clean water for all the Earth Next, preserve and conserve natural systems rather than exploiting and developing the land or sea for just human use There’s more living mass today than yesterday so this trend must continue, requiring we clean up the mess we have already made End violence and war

[@georgemacyn5317]

Would you please make an updated video on Imperium ET5 Electric Vehicle, with specs, and price range, and when it will be sold in the USA. Great thanks

[@MarkSmith-ym5td]

All the time you think nothing is happening momentum is building. Then everything happens in a rush. The glass is half full people.

[@viking1au]

This one seems to somewhat resemble the original Edison batteries that were used to power, amongst other things, the original Baker Electric, like the one featured in Jay Leno's Garage. --

[@fredfrond6148]

Great content. Can you buy CATL on the Shenzhen exchange in Australia?

[@electricviking]

Sadly I haven’t found a way yet.

[@curlyjoh9055]

Have you done a video on the Reno Nevada molten salts battery.?

[@electricviking]

I haven’t. But coming soon.

[@16YOPC]

This guy sure is optimistic.

[@1978rayking]

Nice because it would not hurt to clean some sea water and have a little more fresh water for dry parts of the world.

[@someoneelse7629]

Yeah, it's like the situation with solar power, there is a race to make more efficient solar panels, and there is a race to make cheap panels. Nasa will pay twice the price for a 10% increase in efficiency for space use, homeowners with big roofs will cover the entire roof with panels that are 10% less efficient if the price is 50% lower. Both are equally needed, this battery for grid storage and cheaper vehicles with plenty of space (under a truckbed for example) and less need for range. Lithium batterys for smaller cars with the need for long range and sports cars with limited space but a high price.

[@electricviking]

Good examples mate.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@electricviking Here's one which slipped under the radar (or, under the full vision 😉) 24m / Kyocera semi solid state. 24-m.com/pressrelease/

[@gigabyte2248]

I see you point, but you've got those vehicle applications backwards. Large commercial vehicles are heavy, moving them is difficult and inefficient, and adding extra batteries both compounds the effect and brings the vehicle closer to the legal weight limit. Battery electric vans all have ranges of

[@NeRa101]

This is first generation of sodium batteries, their range will probobaly go up, just like with lithium batteries.

[@tsamuel6224]

My favorite grid scale battery is the Ambry Liquid Metal battery. It achieves low cost by lasting 300 years, requiring insulation to keep it hot instead of requiring cooling to keep it cool and being made from cheap materials. Of course, lasting 300 years simply means long enough to outlast whatever it is built for.

[@1978rayking]

Honestly I hope big salt batteries are sold for homes and businesses, for sure charging stations would definitely benefit.

[@jean-francoismagnan3824]

SAM, the 3.2 V to 3.7 Volts I see in the video suggest that the CAM(Cathode Active Material) is sodium vanadium phosphate. An idea somehow similar to LFP…Vanadium is a messy toxic element that you only want cast in the alloyed steel. Vandium can replace phosphorus in the DNA of all sort of life. We dont want to have vanadium everywhere…. I hope this is mainly to keep investor going on CATL at the moment it became obvious that BYD develop a significantly better LFP cell to pack battery pack… Do you know which CAM chemistry CATL intend to use in their Na-ion cells?

[@TMTFT]

Would this mean that the 'waste' material from desalination could be used as a resource for these batteries?

[@willienolegs8928]

Very cool. Hope it happens.

[@andrewcarr3650]

Power to the people, all over the world. No more chopping down trees for warmth and cooking. King Coal is dead and Big Oil shrinks away.

[@RS-ls7mm]

To be replaced by big lithium or big sodium (or big solar or big wind). The powerful goes where the money is. Its why lithium is already rising. If you think the people are in charge your are delusional.

[@joedennehy386]

If coal was dead why would China be building dozens of coal fired power stations . You are getting ahead of yourself. But the future is looking good

[@RS-ls7mm]

@@joedennehy386 Actually its not. The resource wars have already started. The elements needed to make solar panels is expected to be depleted in 20 years. Lithium is controlled by the most corrupt countries on Earth and the cost is rising. Not to mention that we are getting record heat waves over the entire country way too early and only expected to get worse.

[@joedennehy386]

@@RS-ls7mm luckily the rest of the world, and most of the us had a very cold start to the year

[@barryevans5232]

@@RS-ls7mm Silicon used in solar panels is the second most common element in the earths crust. According to the Minerals Education Coalition (not me).

[@gregedmonds7152]

Fantastic news cheap energy storage here we come I will be first in line .well presented as always

[@electricviking]

Thanks Greg.

[@joe7272]

sodium battery technology has the ability to save us from a large CME (if costs can be reduced through the floor, which I think is possible)

[@Dave5843-d9m]

Old nuclear would be game over but once built the running costs are low. New molten salt nuclear uses 99% of the fuel, against 4% for old nukes. That means a short life waste that’s easily managed. They are also simple to build and intrinsically safe so build and operating costs are low. Check out Moltex and Elysium.

[@simobonev4511]

Love this video, very informative

[@electricviking]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@bradleyoneill5563]

Love to see it, how many times have world changing batteries been announced? Must be approaching 50 or so!

[@electricviking]

That is true. But tis is CATL, they are the worlds largest battery manufacturer.

[@bru512]

CATL (Who is a supplier to Tesla) is going into production, not theory, not pilot program, but production. This is a huge announcement! Going to watch their progress closely.

[@tomjcarty]

BlueSky Energy of Austria are opening a new factory making them in Germany soon. Of note is American firm Aqion was bought by a Chinese firm, and I'm wondering is CATL tech based on Aquion research? Either way it's all good progress

[@陈庆德-b9d]

Catl is based on TDK technology developed by Japanese

[@陈庆德-b9d]

And the battery technology is dominated by China Japan and South Korea

[@icannWong]

I really hope the EV industry adopts the sodium fast as the climate warming is getting faster and Artic Ice has been melting faster than anybody thought.

[@earthkind]

CO2 drives up the Methane release. We need to cut CO2 emissions ASAP! Start by driving gas/diesels less and turning off the lights when not in use. Everyone can make a difference :) Climate Change Sucks!

[@don.timeless4993]

Could Na Ion be efficient & reliable in solid state battery form?

[@donflash1128]

STEM is the largest battery, energy storage company in the US.. great stock..check it out.. Without storage the green energy movement is not feasible..ie: Texas.

[@JGoodwin]

@Electric Singularity, thanks for the video. One suggestion, if I may. At around 8:30 you started to hit your desk which comes through strongly in the microphone.

[@electricviking]

Thanks John, I'll keep that in mind.

[@viking1au]

Sound like the Edison batteries that, in 1900, powered the Baker Electric car.

[@Peoples_Republic_of_Cotati]

What is the likelyhood that NiBs will be able to replace jet fuel? LiBs are not quite there yet except for short flight routes.

[@eugeniustheodidactus8890]

I wonder if *NIO's new SSB* is 100% dry.... and wondering why the range wouldn't be higher with a massive 150kWh pack. _"Nio isn't going to be offering the new battery until 2022, so there's still some time to go, but the new 150kWh battery will offer 620 miles in the new ET7 from a single charge. That's considerable range and a healthy step forward over the current offering."_

[@philv3941]

Wonder in wich way this CATL Na-ion cannot be in conflict with uk J.Goodenough and French TIAMAT/CNRS sodium-ion batteries patents already produced ?

[@Tore_Lund]

F... Patents, we're savings the World. Patents for batteries are usually for manufacturing processes, the chemistry itself is a nAtural phenomenon and not patentable.

[@philv3941]

@@Tore_Lund precisely, Na/ion is a known chemistry, the problem is the assembly, it's very complex to obtain a working cell that can cycle > 500 times.

[@Tore_Lund]

@@philv3941 yes, Some process Will be the preferred one, but to get around a patent, adding Some extra steps supposedly improving the technique, is hard to prove as a violation of a patent. My point was that worrying about existing patents is not holding devellopment back. Most kinds of battery and fuelcell was patented a century ago if you only consider the base chemistry, so they have expired.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Unless I'm mistaken, John Goodenough sent a message of congratulation.

[@steveblomefield9513]

There are not only LFP batteries and sodium batteries. There is also 1 fusion 2 Terrapower using discarded nuclear material 3 Rolls Royce small scale nuclear plants 4 Molten salt reactors 5 cold fusion Now that we are building AI terra computers, the rate of innovation will accelerate. Room temperature superconducting magnets will accelerate cheap energy. In 30 years the price of electricity will be 1 c/kwh.

[@rickibaron4816]

You don't really think that a cost savings will translate to the customer do you? The companies buying these will get a cost savings, but the customer will still have to pay a high price!

[@ramonmichaud3004]

More theme parks .rollercoasters use a lot of power.

[@bru512]

Sam, this is a gamechanger. Cheap, reliable energy storage will enable Wind, Solar, so we can retire coal, gas and nuclear faster than ever. I will be watching CATL develop this technology.

[@Dan-jg3fg]

I would love to be a Beta tester for these in an off-grid setting!

[@vanekirk]

If I had an over abundance of energy, it would be 68°f in my house as long as I live!

[@raystone4673]

Great info. When will the rapid development and innovation stop? Answer, IT WON'T. I noticed you had #calt above video title. Shouldn't this be #catl ?

[@electricviking]

Thanks Ray. Yes, you’re right.

[@cabasadefogo9533]

Let's go green and give more of the planet back to animals! Go EV!

[@deejayrelapz6903]

all this info good but reality is everybody still getting charged for power when finances could be used elsewhere, for example better advancement on water filtration plants and research development studies on agriculture and aquatics for example. thanks for sharing overall good info

[@benny14993]

Even with more energy been created & cost saving in batteries & technologies for consumers but cost of living is not going to come down by 2X ! The governments expenditures throughout world are not going come down instead they will increase through other taxation revenues . So it still not going to help very much unless energy can create super efficiency governments with expenditures decreasing or in tandem with energy cost saving year in year out. It only help the generate more revenues for few peoples or organizations who have capitals to exploit the cost saving. Even with energy efficiency increase by 2X , we can expected usage will increase by 3X~5X as more energy will be increased for travels, transportation, home & industries . Switching from LPG to electric in most application & appliances. Unless energy budget revenues can turn into compensation for people income , maybe this will be good news !

[@booobtooober]

Salt is cheap yes, but I wonder about cell longevity? Salt is very corrosive. Btw lithium is fairly common just in low concentrations. Tesla / Elon on battery day explained how they could leach enough lithium from the Nevada clay to supply all of North America

[@prof.crastinator]

My sodium-ion powered tesla semi is, imho, the best vehicle for my mars colony.

[@johnmyviews3761]

These technologies are very promising, however our government is still backing gas, CCS and seriously lags in electrification of transport despite home industry opportunities and reductions in importation of refined fuel products

[@hadtobe4502]

So vote them out next time.

[@yuaanrai6058]

They did official launch Plss follow up video

[@Robertnight888]

Sodium batteries at ambient temp ?? Our sodium batteries were heated and with ceramic separators SAFT! So are CATL sodium ambient temp and if yes what electrolyte.. inflammable or not?. Many more questions ?!

[@9kilsyth]

Excellent point. Sounds like these sodium batteries or a hybrid lithium/sodium battery pairing would be ideal for boats where weight is less of an issue.

[@electricviking]

Good point, agree on boats.

[@donnairn3419]

Excess energy as an Australian who has spent time in the deserts some sort of desalination of water sounds attractive. Could sodium batteries even increase the demand for the salt that this would produce? Electrified freight trains may also be an interesting thought.

[@electricviking]

I 100% agree on desalination enabling huge amounts of land to be more productively used. Train idea is good too.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

It needs Imaginative Government. Good luck with that!

[@chadlymath]

I wonder what the discharge & recharge variables are, for charging, as well as comparison to red flow batteries for storage (or hydrogen, for longevity or other source needs retainment). As well as molten salt energy solutions, with solar. Those will all be factors, I'd gather, while good to see more readily available & cost-effective solutions coming left & right.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

One more time. "Or hydrogen..." "Or..... Take every KWh of baseload and throw away 700w getting it to do useful work" (while still using some fossil fuel for baseload, which the 700kWh could have removed)..

[@chadlymath]

@@rogerstarkey5390 Or planes, trains, ships, and flying cars that just won't cut it running on batteries & can't stay fossil fuels (since hydrogen can be blue or green) so no need to waste the momentum or your breath?

[@tribulationcoming]

It will still take some time to make the transition, maybe 50% electric on the road. But this will happen in time. Long time down the road, the energy climate is changing at a increased rate. There are many other changes and all won't be beneficial.

[@Topsiekku]

same idea as in broadpit batteries?

[@TheCort1971]

seems like every month there is some article or video about some "new battery tech" it never actually comes to fruition. let alone takes over.

[@electricviking]

Not from the worlds largest battery manufacturer there isn’t, if CATL says they are doing something, they generally do it.

[@TheCort1971]

@@electricviking believe it when i see it.

[@Andrew-rc3vh]

Storing energy on the grid with a battery is uneconomic. You could slash you storage costs by at least a factor of ten if you stored the energy as heat. There is not a cycle life issue with heat. It would keep going forever.

[@irwane1817]

Thanks for sharing. Subs your channel

[@electricviking]

Cheers mate.

[@montypalmer4556]

Seems like the real need right now is more batteries. Why don't we have enough? Not enough battery factories. Why don't we have enough factories? People haven't become demanding enough already of a new paradigm battery world. The old world has resisted the change but people will become demanding sooner than we think.

[@john_blues]

CATL says 2023 for commercial availability.

[@user-sl5bh8kr8h]

Edison was promoting sodium batteries in cars in 1910 !!!!!!

[@BlondieSuperdog]

30% cheaper batteries won't do too much actually. The impact on car price will actually somewhat counter the rising price of lithium; which is up 1000%. It does nothing to improve the availability of Lithium which is the critical problem facing EVs now. Production this year EV industry wide hasn't even hit 2 million in a market of 140 million vehicles.

[@Alrukitaf]

New international standard unit of measurement “a shit-ton”!

[@siamshen]

this is just a bluff，the energy density is much lower for nibs than li ，therefore calt stock price didnt change a lot after the announcement

[@johnsavage6628]

Who are you kidding? I'll believe it when I can buy it and use it myself. Everyone has the next greatest battery. The old batteries work. They are affordable, and I can recharge them. That's right you can recharge batteries people. I don't run out all the time and buy new batteries. I recharge them for a while. Sodium ion battery. Great, or so you say.

[@callumbillington8395]

Though I mildly agree, you live up to your name 🤣

[@LightSpirit24]

I heard that BYD makes more batteries than CATL or any other battery makers. And they are claiming to be much cheaper than others.

[@electricviking]

BYD is fourth, CATL is first

[@grizzybear9111]

Sodium-ion batteries costs more to manufacture, they need oxygen free zone to put together. 30% of battery cost is material, the rest is manufacturing. Sodium-ion batteries hare 3x heavier.

[@dogphlap6749]

Lithium is not expensive, in short supply or particularly damaging in its extraction. It only constitutes 2% of the mass of a lithium-ion cell. Lithium is as common as lead, nickel on the other hand is expensive and a lot less abundant in the earth's crust. Nickel is found in many lithium-ion cells including those that Tesla uses both in the internal chemistry and the stainless steel jacket. Sodium is even more common than lithium but we will never run out of either element (half the salt in our seas etc is sodium after all). Plenty of scarcities to worry about, not just nickel but the price of copper in particular is starting to reflect its rapid depletion so copper wire is likely to give way to some aluminum based alloy wire within a couple of decades purely from cost. Sodium batteries may be the future but if they are it will have nothing to do with the cost (environmental or financial) of lithium.

[@electricviking]

Interesting analysis, enjoyed reading it. Thanks for watching ;)

[@crhu319]

So can Mercedes, NIO, Tesla lap BYD LiFePo4 with this NaFe tech? Can BYD license ultra phosphates from A123systems? Loving this battery war. GM was wise to make Ultrium chemistry independent.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Ultium is LG, with GM building the factory.

[@anydaynow01]

I'm all for large scale battery tech since it allows us to even out stress on the grid, use less renewables (less waste) and allows more power from fission plants to be used to keep them at constant power 24/7 (fission plants operate most efficiently when kept at a steady power level). The big question is if we start pumping these out on a global scale, what happens to all the chlorine? Fix it to potassium to make another stable usable salt?

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Chlorine?

[@chrisvanderburg5568]

I'm intrigued as to what is written on your dry erase board lol. Is it a secret formula for the Cadbury chocolate bar. Is it the honeydoo list that your wife wanted done before you make a KZbin video? Ohhhh the mystery of it. I screenshot it and expanded but it went all pixelly . you must tell me.....pleeeaaassssse.

[@jcjensenllc]

Volume production of sodium-ion batteries is not close to being perfected - years away.

[@buzz-9x]

I hope u r right!

[@brane2379]

Sure, sure. Just like 273.932.576 other contenders.

[@electricviking]

That’s funny! There is only one company in the world in first place for global battery supply. Google who that company is.

[@brane2379]

@@electricviking Hmm. You are right. I knew about CATL, but have thought they are doing LeFePo4 for Tesla. Didn't know it was Na-Ion. Last time I checked Na-Ion had lower energy density. Nice to know. Wait -this will not replace Li-IOn ? So I was right - Na-Ion has lower energy density. Lithium isn't really that big of a problem for Li-Ion. Lithium is relatively minor ingredient. Primary problem of Li-Ion is cycle life and safety. There are other contenders that are adressing both problems. In a year or two, for example QuantumScape is to have their first solid-state models out with metallic Lithium, way higher energy density and cycle life. As Jagdeep Singh says, they are on their finishing stretch toward it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqW8YpqZnN5ohJY

[@electricviking]

Way too expensive for utility scale storage. That’s the point I am making in the video.

[@brane2379]

@@electricviking Prices will fall dramatically. and energy density is to increase big time with solid state. This one might be an "also ran" that managed to catch its market niches, but it hardly looks like an revolution that is to "change everything". Even its big initial claim is that it is to COMPLEMENT and not ECLIPSE current Li-Ion. Which has no intention to stand still...

[@ubermenschen3636]

This macho dude has muscle to spare, including in his head.

[@strategicgamer1466]

More energy than we need? - May I suggest we use it to build machines to clean up our environment; capture the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, trap them and bury them. Clean up the river, lakes and ocean. Clean up the land, especially the nuclear topic waste dump.

[@electricviking]

I like that idea!

[@pragmatist165]

The research has gone nowhere (as at 24 Oct) . There is little to work on now re the cathode. I expect CATL will quietly shut the door on sodium in batteries. So solid state will regain the focus. And as I write this, I am unsure whether CATL has a grip on solid state battery r&d. I am guessing not. I don’t know enough except what we have heard all the time in that Breakthroughs in solid state are announced but go nowhere. Nothing happens that is feasible. So have engineers and pharma gurus hit the wall? And we are left with unsatisfactory areas to review, viz lead batteries, a no no no , and aluminium batteries that you can’t recharge. You’d think not. It seems that a new physicist with the IQ of Newton is needed, but is this all beyond science now?

[@paulsutton5896]

I am not sure I like the encroachment of the Chinese into any field whatsoever. We have seen what they did when they got their hands on western discoveries in virology. I would prefer to see the success, and wide-spread deployment of MSR technology. It is the only really controllable source of clean energy. MOLTEX has the most promising technology for the first step towards MSR technology, called the stable salt reactor. But I agree, sodium could displace lithium if you don't want it to power mobile devices.