A panel of libertarians discuss their views on a host of social issues, including gay marriage, immigration and abortion.
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@eliechallita10 жыл бұрын
Dear Lord Cthulhu that audience is annoying. The panel's there to share their knowledge. Shut up, listen until they're done, and then feel free to ask questions.
@DCUnderdog300011 жыл бұрын
As a libertarian i think we should still just regulate immigration as minimally as possible. Im not really for "complete open borders."
@Scharlarntz3 жыл бұрын
I'm a libertarian too. Actually the key is LEGAL immigration. Those who come to the US to contribute to the economic and social aspect. Those who intend to commit crimes (child prostitution, drugs, etc.) should NOT be allowed to enter, and those who are already in the US should be DEPORTED. It's not a "racist" thing, it's a national security thing.
@aetas45003 жыл бұрын
I don't think anyone including Democrats and Libertarians advocate for complete open borders.
@29-arnavsamant973 жыл бұрын
@@aetas4500 the Dems do tho. That is only if it makes the republican look bad. That's why Biden is discouraging illegal immigration but when trump did it, he was called all sorts of things
@tommyanomaly61933 жыл бұрын
@@29-arnavsamant97 Theirs's certainly an unhealthy level of partisanship in mainstream media.
@wfjhDUI2 жыл бұрын
@@29-arnavsamant97 Can you give even a single genuine and non-hyperbolic example of a high-profile Democrat advocating open borders? I've never seen it. The only cases I've run into of people genuinely advocating open borders were either libertarians or leftists.
@wfjhDUI5 жыл бұрын
The Fox News audience would lose their minds in incoherent rage if this was broadcast today.
@LSMitchell3 жыл бұрын
And even more today! LOL
@thatboii30942 жыл бұрын
@@LSMitchell America always gets worse. I don't know why
@tommyanomaly61932 жыл бұрын
@@dadaismotienekasepta Both sides hate Libertarians. I get it all the time online from both sides.
@gregvaldez12692 жыл бұрын
@@dadaismotienekasepta I'm far left but fuck both CNN and Fox , both are propaganda networks .
@crobeastness2 жыл бұрын
fox news has always been centrist. that being said, conservatives don't care about immigrants, they just care about legal immigrants.
@iamgodofhumancollective596810 жыл бұрын
Vote Libertarian or our Constitution is lost.
@JoseMartinez-ig4lx4 ай бұрын
It's a gradual process, but it's getting there.
@Gabe-qc5ji4 жыл бұрын
Can the audience shut up. I’m trying to listen, even if I might have some disagreements it’s a valuable discussion
@conagri50004 жыл бұрын
Wtf?
@conagri50004 жыл бұрын
Stossel getting the bug too?
@Codad14 жыл бұрын
Great interviews, but it would be much more enjoyable if the guests weren't always being interrupted by the audience.
@cloutiec5 жыл бұрын
Super obnoxious crowd response
@Porelorexeus11 жыл бұрын
My favorite is the black guy. :)
@distritofederal71873 жыл бұрын
Nah Deroy is a conservative
@myles90752 жыл бұрын
I was just thinking that, Deroy is great, I agreed with everything he said, he was the best
@myles90752 жыл бұрын
@@distritofederal7187 and no he’s not a conservative, he’s more libertarian
@WhyIHatetheWorld11 жыл бұрын
I like how the audience is to the right of the Libertarians.
@nathaneccleston9711 жыл бұрын
Friedman was in favor of immigration. He identified two different forms of immigration, immigration to jobs and that of welfare. There are 3 different ways to deal with the problem of immigration to welfare that are consistant with his views, get rid of it (welfare ), allow illegal immigration (turn a blind eye), or make it so that immigrats cant apply for welfare for X number of years. "Its good (immigration) so long as its illegal"-milton friedman.
@AlexG-nr4eh11 жыл бұрын
Making an abortion impossible is also a restriction of freedom.
@jektonoporkins50259 жыл бұрын
I would agree that immigration needs to be streamlined. The first guy had a great point...there was no such thing as a legal immigrant. Most of my ancestors were Englishmen, Dutchmen, and Germans that came here before 1700. The rest were Germans and Scots that came here in the 1830's and 1840's. You know what my German and Scot ancestors that came here in the 1830's and 1840's had to do to become legal immigrants? They had to step off a boat. Now it takes 10 years and $10,000, and a Mexican laborer working for a few dollars a day cannot save up $10,000 for himself, much less his family. We ought to streamline the immigration process, have check stations on the border, and give them green cards. If they become productive citizens and have jobs, give 'em citizenship. If they're lazy and collect welfare the whole time, don't give 'em citizenship.
@emil.jansson Жыл бұрын
Dude, I don't give a f about your "ancestors".
@YorickReturns10 жыл бұрын
I think it's excuse-making to say that we shouldn't have free migration because of the welfare state. You could make that argument against the libertarian position on every other issue. We allegedly can't legalize drugs, as long as tax money goes toward drug addicts in the form of health-care, unemployment benefits, etc. If the welfare state is stretched to the point of collapse by free migration, good! Let it collapse. This excuse-making is like saying that, as long as the welfare state exists, there should be restrictions on the numbers of children we, or some of us, can have, because government has a legal obligation under the welfare state to provide 'free' education and that costs tax money.
@YorickReturns10 жыл бұрын
"you're delusional pal". Great argument, 'pal'. "Last time I checked..." When did I say I was American? The argument nevertheless applies to America, albeit with slightly different details here and there. For example, America's health-care is mostly socialized, and was mostly socialized even before ObamaCare. It is very likely that legalizing drugs would lead to more drug-related health-care costs payable by the tax-payer. In fact, Ann Coulter gave that as a justification for why she doesn't want drugs legalized. Libertarians who oppose free immigration are not libertarians at all. They just can't bring themselves to admit that they're fundamentally conservatives, albeit with a greater orientation to liberty than many other conservatives. That's fine, but leave us libertarians alone, because your pretence is not doing us or you any good.
@YorickReturns10 жыл бұрын
Ewhelden So, I can't know anything about America because I'm not American? I'm sure I know more than you do. If my opinion means nothing to you, why do you keep replying? You're an angry conservative in denial. You want to believe so much that you're a libertarian, but you're not a libertarian, as your anti-foreigner words have made so very clear. It's not good to be in denial. The sooner that you accept that you're a conservative, rather than lurking around libertarianism, the better for you. There is no libertarian against free immigration, just as there is no libertarian argument for the War on Drugs or for restrictions on numbers of children, despite the costs that each of these may impose on the welfare state.
@YorickReturns10 жыл бұрын
Ewhelden Well, your anger is pretty obvious. Non-angry people don't go around calling people's opinions 'shit'. And, if you oppose immigration but learn towards liberty in other areas, the accepted label for that is 'conservative'. And, if you're watching a Stossel clip about libertarianism and immigration, you probably fancy yourself as being a libertarian.
@YorickReturns10 жыл бұрын
Ewhelden "And as far as welfare,food stamps and what have you,people coming into the US illegally should not have access to funds paid by US workers". I agree. But, there shouldn't be any welfare for anyone, because taxation is theft. "(open borders mean companies can exploit cheaper labor)". No one's being exploited. Slavery is already illegal. Just because you disagree with someone's life choices, that doesn't mean that you should get to forbid such choices. Otherwise, why shouldn't we also ban unhealthy food, ban having 'too many' kids, ban dysfunctional romantic and sexual relationships, etc?
@YorickReturns10 жыл бұрын
Ewhelden If 'exploitation' is to mean anything, it has to mean lack of consent. As I said, slavery is already illegal. If we give it some other meaning, then it's basically just the arbitrary imposition of your opinion through law. As I said, why not give some bureaucrat the power to ban 'unhealthy' foods or 'dysfunctional' relationships or having 'too many' children?
@BearFan0912 жыл бұрын
As someone who considers myself pretty libertarian, I would like to say that the libertarian position should be pro-life. Libertarians believe that the government's main role is to protect individual rights. Three of the rights listed are "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." I think that the libertarian position aligns with the pro-life side as the government's responsibility is to protect the right to life of the baby inside the womb. The mother has her rights as well, but nowhere do
@chriskb249511 жыл бұрын
first time i'm annoyed with stossel's crowd
@independentRestorationServices3 жыл бұрын
I think they’re a Fox crowd and not necessarily Stosell’s own crowd
@trime185114 жыл бұрын
Great series! Thank you for posting!!
@ethan35375 жыл бұрын
1. Immigration should be greatly expanded but the border should still continue to exist and some vetting of immigrants should take place. That said it shouldn’t be as hard as it is to come here. 2. Gay marriage is not the business of the government to regulate however neither is religion. Gays should be allowed to marry and religious people should be free to refuse to bake gay wedding cakes. 3. The constitution asserts the importance of Life. One of the few roles of the government is to protect the lives of its citizens including the unborn.
@JakeRosen6354 жыл бұрын
What if a religious person refused to bake a wedding cake for an African American couple? It's religious freedom, right? (btw not saying this is ever likely to happen, just trying to play devil's' advocate)
@aubot876811 жыл бұрын
There's too much conservatives who they're libertarians and when they hear what real libertarians have to say they act like the audience.
@tommyanomaly61933 жыл бұрын
Too many people have a binary mindset
@carultch12 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Ron Paul. Glad someone understands this inconsistency.
@Prenna2312 жыл бұрын
Interesting option. My emotional and pre-conditioned response to your question would be "Well, if they've waited till the 3rd trimester to act, they need to take responsibility for their inaction and at least see it to term." Clearly though that is me projecting my own expectations of "taking responsibility" onto another person. I'll have to give it some more thought.
@amgxpat4 жыл бұрын
I find it interesting how no one speaks up for a man's choice in the abortion discussion. If two consenting adults procreate together, then she unilaterally ends the future fetus (his child too), he has no say in the matter, a violation of his parental rights. Conversely, if she refuses to abort, he has no method to sign away his parental rights coerced by the state to pay unconstitutional child support.
@independentRestorationServices3 жыл бұрын
From a libertarian standpoint none of that stuff matters for the two major arguments. The main two views for libertarians are that it’s either it’s a life and needs to be protected or it’s the woman’s body and therefor she’s got the right to decide what she does with her body. Occasionally some prolife libertarians will bring up contract law and the implied contract between a man and women when having sex. The resulting pregnancy is a result of that contract and therefore the man has a say. But that’s kind of a weird argument to have with mainstream America. It’s worth bringing up to turn pro-choice libertarians into prolife, but the “saving a life” thing usually carries more weight.
@tcskips2 жыл бұрын
@@independentRestorationServices the question being when does it become an autonomous individual with the same rights as you or I.
@EpicTrollingCentre11 жыл бұрын
Libertarians and conservatives alike are big believers in personal responsibility. The formula to a baby is simple: sex= baby, no sex or condom = no baby.
@ca1cifer12 жыл бұрын
It pissed me off that so many people were booing the harvard economist when he was talking about opening the borders.
@thebandwagoneer11 жыл бұрын
@xdiesel76 So if two men get married it's sonehow negatively affecting you is it?
@solomon883311 жыл бұрын
What is with all the moaning and groaning from the audience?
@ThomasEdvalson10 жыл бұрын
Wendy McElroy, as brilliant as ever.
@SchuylerPickren4 жыл бұрын
Lmfao she's a straight up moron
@yamamotoyamamoto18 жыл бұрын
I'm from Brazil and I wish my country had political debates like this.
@erikmunoz5510 жыл бұрын
I am a Libertarian but I tend to disagree just a bit on the Immigration issue.
@snim95154 жыл бұрын
Then you are NOT libertarian.
@S1eeperServ1ce4 жыл бұрын
@@snim9515 You don't know what this person disagrees with yet because he hasn't said. The panel do not agree with each other for various reasons. Why so glib?
@snim95154 жыл бұрын
@@S1eeperServ1ce if you disagree with immigration, you only want freedom for yourself and not for others. Freedom for few is no freedom at all. Libertarians have been highjacked by neo cons.
@asantico4 жыл бұрын
@@snim9515 I would like to know where to buy that Libertometer. Surely you have one because it is the only fucking way you can know what Erik Munoz thinks without having expressed his arguments yet. I would like to buy one so I can boast of my libertarian moral superiority.
@snim95154 жыл бұрын
@@asantico I don't need a meter. I just need the definition of libertarian.
@punxride0249 жыл бұрын
When did this air on Fox? This is the first quality material I've seen come from them.
@trayvondindu63319 жыл бұрын
this is what libertarians actually believe
@hughtub14 жыл бұрын
It's in our interest to only open immigration to those who will add to the wealth and strength of the country, as James Madison generally put it. We and our ancestors built a nation that made others want to come here, so immigrants should have skills or traits that increase our country's survival.
@HarryNRubin14 жыл бұрын
I wish the audience wasn't there, but this was a great panel!
@52000rightwing12 жыл бұрын
Who needs to attend Harvard School of Economics when you can listen to Jeffrey Miron any time you want, right here on youtube?
@alastermyst11 жыл бұрын
I have a question about libertarian principles/stance on something that try as I might, I can't find the libertarian position on so I'll ask you. Libertarians seem to generally be for peoples rights as long as they aren't hurting anybody (ie they would allow prostitution, drug use, etc.) which I agree with. And they generally seem to be against "Big Government". What exactly is your party/your stance on companies? Should they be treated as individuals and be given more or less complete
@janhelfeld12 жыл бұрын
John Stossel, host of the Stossel show, on Fox Business News is interviewed on journalism and the Socratic interviewing that Jan does. He says that Jan is right to ask questions that reveal a contradiction in a politician's thinking and that we ought to show the public when they are mistaken. Jan explains the Socratic interviewing technique offering examples and claims it offers an intellectual and entertainment value. John Stossel says that he is open to having some of Jan's stuff on his show.
@asleeperj13 жыл бұрын
@Zackerybob A fetus does get rights at conception, for instance, as a grand parent you can write your unborn grandchild into your will, giving it property rights. If you are in an accident with a pregnant woman, and she loses her child because of that accident, you are liable for manslaughter. My point in all of this is consistency. Do not make a fetus property of the bearer, and in the same sentence give it protection under the law. This is how the law is written now.
@aubot876811 жыл бұрын
Well, not exactly. The fetus is not removed through a C-section, it's literally torn apart in the abortion process. So if you count fetuses as humans it's murder. That's why I would advocate for fetuses that are able to survive to placed in incubators instead of being aborted. The entire abortion issue would be resolved with artificial wombs.
@RosannaMiller5 жыл бұрын
I have a question for the woman who believes in open border: does she sleep in a house without locks? Does she have a fence around her house? UPDATE: She's a Canadian? Who the hell cares what she thinks about borders around America!
@philippf21364 жыл бұрын
I have a question to you. Does your city has walls?
@philippf21364 жыл бұрын
@ShadowboyTV Yes from behind.
@richierich8245 Жыл бұрын
You are conflating private property and government property into the same thing.
@tehsuperepicpwnzor13 жыл бұрын
That was a terrific debate.
@Lobocito874 жыл бұрын
The first statement on U. S. identity and the best idea at all! 😊
@4TIMESAYEAR14 жыл бұрын
@HubertPaetz - Excellent analogy!!!
@notyourtypicalfarah71948 жыл бұрын
Gay Marriage- No logical reason to be against it unless you’re using your religious views. Abortion- Personally only in the first trimester or up to 18 Weeks after Fertilization, after that it has feelings, and it’s just wrong. Immigration- I don’t feel good about open borders, I’m not white or believe in nationalism or superiority. But I do believe that culture matters. We know that every culture does not believe in freedom. So why have open borders? I’m open to hear other thoughts or be educated in this If I’m wrong.
@simonjesusbeliever34672 жыл бұрын
Some cultures support freedom. Also even with immigration the culture wont seize To exist.
@authenticallysuperficial987411 ай бұрын
Who cares whether or not the baby has feelings? There's plenty of ways to murder an adult without causing him or her pain. The crime in murder is not the pain caused by the injuries, it's the murder.
@gideondavid3013 жыл бұрын
I would agree with you about the state level thing. What I am saying is that it is not UNLIBERTARIAN (or unconstitutional) for the STATES to create such laws that regulate x or y. State power is unlimited - BILL OF RIGHTS. My position is that when the government gets into our private lifes (except in the case of HARM to another human being) it only creates more problems than it solves, costs too much money, and tramples on civil liberties.
@SuperNache11 жыл бұрын
the idea is that you can only have entitlements as long as there are enough people who can afford to pay for them. Entitlements are already more than our govt can afford with tax revenues as they are.
@BearFan0912 жыл бұрын
...but nowhere does the constitution say that she has the right to terminate another human being's life.
@Eincrou14 жыл бұрын
@HubertPaetz: That's a good analogy to show the absurdity of her moral argument. I find that abortion is impossible to justify morally, even when in response to rape or incest. However, intellectually, I would be against banning abortion simply because government bans never work, especially when the "crime" is hard to detect, whether it's smoking weed or vacuuming out a fetus. Banning it would just make it extremely deadly for both fetus and mother alike when performed on the black market.
@Synthmilk11 жыл бұрын
"Yet the baby is dependent upon mother's milk, mother's love, and so on, without which it'll die." Incorrect, after birth the baby is not dependent on the woman who gave birth to them, they are simply dependent on a certain level of care. This care can be provided by others.
@Personmr12 жыл бұрын
libertarian discussion, pepsi, and everquest: good times. :)
@Skapo14 жыл бұрын
@HubertPaetz Well said.
@marienzasokau8127 Жыл бұрын
I wonder if, any of these guests are living and experiencing what's been happening today 2022 since 2017 in regards to the border issues and caravans of come one come all immigrants. Ie ; Does it jive with their thoughts and ideas ???
@carultch12 жыл бұрын
How do you feel about interfaith marriages?
@rugs72914 жыл бұрын
why is jerry springers audience in the studio
@blackmagicchampion11 жыл бұрын
I appreciate the fact that I have life, and I extend the respect given to me by others- so we live peacefully and respect the lives of each other. I still don't see how this construes any sort of 'right'. :/
@sphumelelesijadu3 жыл бұрын
I felt like she had a good point about abortion
@Libertarian177610 жыл бұрын
I'm a Libertarian and I do NOT agree with open boarders, 95% of the Libertarians I know feel the same way.
@GuyIncognito888810 жыл бұрын
Borders are just lines drawn on a map, by old men, from a time long before we were born. If a family wants to move across the sea to America, why should they have to wait in some kind of process? There is no purpose to this. If the family wants to live in America, they have only to find a house, and actually make the move. All of this bureaucratic paperwork bullshit is completely unnecessary. Freedom of movement is a fundamental human right.
@Tetzukai9 жыл бұрын
***** Stick to just production of public goods? What do you mean?
@reachforacreech9 жыл бұрын
you do know that free markets require open borders,hence the reason why Friedman was pro open borders.
@Tetzukai9 жыл бұрын
reachforacreech It doesn't require open borders, people need to demand open borders for whatever reason in a market which is exactly what will happen when there's a "free" market if not always the case. Open borders is just an obvious consequence of free markets since we know people want it.
@reachforacreech9 жыл бұрын
***** try acualy reading some economic text and you will see that you need open borders,there is no middle ground with free trade,either you have it or you dont.if there is free trade a cuban can sail into any port with his load of cigars and marijuana and compete side by side with any domestic business.no tarrifs,no regulations,no visas plus your comment seems contradicting.
@JamesonGraber12 жыл бұрын
This whole "you can't make my uterus property of the state" rhetoric is out of hand. My house is my property; the state doesn't own it, and can't come control what I do in it. Except, I'm not allowed to kill my kids, even if they're in my house consuming my food. Just because you own property doesn't mean you can kill people within the confines of that property. So if abortion really kills a human being, this whole "my body my property" argument still doesn't win the debate.
@alastermyst11 жыл бұрын
"when the fetus is a recognizable human being" So I'm assuming you mean about or after 12 weeks in (which is when the life-form officially becomes a fetus. That seems reasonable. As for the sleeping person analogy, it seems extremely flawed to me to compare a sentient being to non-sentient one.
@ethankerr19193 жыл бұрын
I don’t know if I agreed with it, but that woman gave the best argument for pro-abortion that I’ve ever heard. Most Democrats just say “My body, my choice!” and claim you’re a sexist.
@asleeperj13 жыл бұрын
@Zackerybob If you feel that way, then the laws should be changed. Though at this point in time an OBGYN can be sued if an abortion is believed to be carried out improperly. An unborn fetus still has property rights of it's grandparents will. All i ask for is consistency. There is non in the US legislative, or judicial system. Unborn babies have rights under certain circumstances, and non under others. This is a major problem.
@HSR10712 жыл бұрын
The fetus is not the "property" of the bearer; the bearer's own body is her property, Think of it the fetus as more of a tenant. Just as a property owner has the right to evict someone from structures a woman has the right to evict someone from her body. Just as no one has the responsibility to give shelter to homeless people no one has the obligation to provide a womb to a fetus.
@tmac993814 жыл бұрын
LOL i love the crowd in this show
@105Mittens13 жыл бұрын
@KenMacMillan Others states not wanting to recognize marriage in other states is why it became a federal issue...you're right, it's dumb. Does no one remember "Loving vs VA"?
@Zackerybob13 жыл бұрын
@asleeperj I completely agree; if those laws are inconsistant, than there is a problem. If they want to consider the zygot/fetus a person, than not only should they ban abortion outright, but they should also ban chemical contraception, since they can also cause spontaneous abortions, hell, ban jumping, jogging or any physical activity for pregnant women.
@liveoak1443 жыл бұрын
we don't have enough jobs for all our citizens, so I see no point letting more people in to compete for jobs that don't exist.
@-PURPLE-HEAD3 жыл бұрын
Immigrants can also create new jobs.
@Th3Wab314 жыл бұрын
the immigration view points are great it's strange that Canada has such strict immigration laws...
@Zackerybob13 жыл бұрын
@asleeperj You find what hypocritical? Your statement that males have no say on the abortion issue? The abortion issue is not something that only women have a say in, since the question is whether the fetus should be endowed with personhood. This is a debate that involves both men and women. This is a human issue.
@BenjaminWirtz8 жыл бұрын
I don't like that Wendy lady, she is way too snide while the others are discussing disagreements with respect. Also, er arguments seem more emotion based rather than logic based.
@Amateur_Pianist_4726 жыл бұрын
How? She's describing bodily autonomy. Which is very logical in a free society.
@josephp21095 жыл бұрын
@@Amateur_Pianist_472 She said "I'm glad you didn't call them an individual with rights" about babies. You and I both were 2 week old fetuses at one point. We, along with the 52 million people who have been aborted, would not be alive if we had been aborted. That's logic. Abortion is murder, murder of 52 million people who should be walking this earth right now! It's genocide, and all she has to argue off of is emotion. I really hope you can see how inconceivable it is that people are arguing for "my skin" and "my choice" and "they aren't an individual with rights".
@raycirx12 жыл бұрын
Very interesting video. I am NOT a liberterian so this was educational. It shows what liberterians believe and that they do disagree on many of these issues. I also agree this audience is annoying!
@gorgonzolaaa14 жыл бұрын
@vladimirstanislav what does that have to do with legal vs. illegal immigration, and immigration law, KID?
@mainstreetdesign485812 жыл бұрын
There is a HUGE Difference between Liberals and Libertarians... Please Learn the Difference
@patsflysfan212 жыл бұрын
Deroy Murdock is right on every issue in this video.
@105Mittens13 жыл бұрын
@KenMacMillan I agree. Peace.
@johnc10148 жыл бұрын
I am for legal immigration, but not for wide-open boarders. I want to get rid of welfare. I want to completely secure our boarders. And then we can make the process far more efficient and allow pretty much anyone willing to come here through that process legally. I do not welcome criminals or people seeking to simply live off our welfare. Secure the boarder to keep them out and then we can let everyone else in freely.
@johnc10148 жыл бұрын
juscurious Firstly, what environmental impact are you speaking of? Secondly, are you are arguing for there to be zero immigration? To answer your question: Yes, I do care about the environment as I kind of need it in order to stay alive. Anyone who does not care about the environment is either kidding themselves or has some sort of death wish.
@teddypgray12 жыл бұрын
Oh, and BTW, libertarianism isn't just a federal issue. It is an ideology, therefore; it has to be applied to Federal, State, and Local government.
@gorgonzolaaa14 жыл бұрын
@vladimirstanislav what did you miss from when I said "immigration laws go back to the early 1800s", KID?
@asleeperj12 жыл бұрын
@Zackerybob You missed the point completely, a zygote (you misspelled it.) has property rights, period the end. They can Inherit things from their parents and grandparents (Trusts/Wills.) I asked for consistency. So the life form that lives within a woman, has rights, so long as those rights don't bother the woman? Look at it from an OBGYN perspective, an OBGYN has 2 patients, not one.... why is that? If an OBGYN harms a zygote, and not the woman they can be sued for malpractice. OOPS.
@david5287511 жыл бұрын
"Tree" is to "seed" as "adult" is to "fetus". Definition of "seed": "A seed is a small embryonic plant in a covering called the seed coat, usually with some stored food." So you're right, a seed is not a tree, a seed contains a tree, in the early stages of development. It's like if I said "and adult is a human and child is not an adult, therefore a child is not human." It is an invalid argument. But this has nothing to do with my original argument.
@hydrolito12 жыл бұрын
He's saying we have only so many we can support and not to have more move in than we can sustain with jobs, houses, etc. So limited legal immagration would fall within the range of the substainable.
@lwglwglwg14 жыл бұрын
@Th3Wab3 No, they don't. Canada's policy for legal immigration, whether it's for skilled workers or through business investment, is MUCH MUCH more friendly and welcome to immigrants from other nations.
@bdonovable3 жыл бұрын
The whole panel knocked the gay marriage issue out of the park. I appreciated David Boaz and Deroy Murdock's opinions on immigration and abortion. I didn't care for Wendy McElroy's takes on immigration or abortion. Jeffrey Miron's take on immigration was backwards; ie, Milton Friedman got it right: opening the borders and expecting the welfare state to disappear afterwards is mistake. Allowing anyone, including non-libertarians into the the United States would hardly guarantee that libertarian policy would be enacted.
@Prenna2312 жыл бұрын
It's less disagreement than just being too economically illiterate to understand how a lot of Libertarianism works. I have my doubts about completely ending the welfare state, having no state funded education, and ending public health care (I'm originally from the UK, now living in Australia). Other areas such as removing wages and conditions legislation concerns me as well. I'm from a lower socio-economic/working class background and struggle to see how Libertarian economics won't screw us.
@Porelorexeus10 жыл бұрын
How about infants, are they children? I'm sure they wouldn't feel a thing with a quick ax to the neck. When does a fetus become a child, or infant? Fetuses are humans too.
@josephp21095 жыл бұрын
100 percent! Murder of 52 million people who should be on this earth right now!!! The only difference between a fetus and a baby is they can't make a noise.
@voluntarism3353 жыл бұрын
@@josephp2109 the only difference is location, no libertarian would ever support abortion
@repfreedomforce14 жыл бұрын
Listen to the Fox news crowd react to these issues. Libertarian panel on Fox, priceless! Anyone familiar with these people?
@asleeperj12 жыл бұрын
@Zackerybob You misread, I find it wrong that a male, who donated a part of his property (sperm) to another individuals property (an egg:) has, no say in the matter, in which, that collimation has created a human being. It's like me giving you a wing, and you provide the hull, and you call the plane yours....HMMM.
@jacobgunter85353 жыл бұрын
The black guy was awesome!
@Zackerybob12 жыл бұрын
The argument I'm making is that it is okay to terminate a life that is not yet a person and should not be considered murder/illegal Preventing the existence of someone is not the same as taking someone OUT of existence once they are already here (ie murder). Therefore, it is a lesser ethical dilemma and at worst, should be considered a necessary evil A woman has the right to prevent the existence of something that she doesn't want. The inconsistency of these types of laws is a whole other issue
@kubush11 жыл бұрын
Most states had laws that criminalized abortion before Roe v Wade. So yes, it was made legal. I already addressed her argument and how it shouldn't be taken as a logical absolute that necessitates the legalizing of late term abortion. Don't just repeat your argument as if I never addressed it.
@teddypgray12 жыл бұрын
And all issues as well: immigration, abortion, homosexual marriage, social welfare, etc. Bottom line is EVERYONE has freedom of choice! Period!
@carultch12 жыл бұрын
Legalization of abortion causes the erosion of its own support. It is called the Roe Effect. Legalization of gay marriage causes exactly the opposite, the growth of its own support. Call it the Waals Effect, in honor of son of lesbian couple, Zach Waals.
@Earley8611 жыл бұрын
What about the liberty of the child? That child didn't choose to be born in you. Why are you making the decision for someone else? Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness. Life. Yes... O what about your own liberty? What about the liberty of the baby? Under your own liberty you chose to have sex. Therefor you open yourself up to the result of that situation. (Excluding Rape etc etc...)(I'm also aware this is a bit redundant)
@asleeperj13 жыл бұрын
The problem with abortion, is that the baby already has property rights before it is born. A fetus gets rights at conception.
@Synthmilk11 жыл бұрын
I do not see how defining when a fetus becomes independent, and thus an individual, allowing us to separate it's rights from that of it's mother, is splitting hairs, especially when you have yet to propose when a fertilized egg can be considered an individual. So tell me, when does a fertilized egg become an individual?
@kubush11 жыл бұрын
I'm a progressive liberal and I am pro-open borders. Security checks would solve the security problem. Stricter oversight over welfare programs would solve the moocher problem.
@MB-ke9mi4 жыл бұрын
Children outside your body also rely on parents providing food, care, and protection.
@david5287511 жыл бұрын
If we are to believe that a womans right to life implicitly gives her the right to have an abortion, then we must apply that logic consistently to late term abortions and even abortions up to the moment after birth.
@Zackerybob12 жыл бұрын
@asleeperj ....you've already mentioned this earlier and I have responded that if there IS inconsistancy, then this is a problem. You're just repeating yourself....
@gorgonzolaaa14 жыл бұрын
@opacid Nothing wrong with being sympathetic to foreigners, but it's the way of being sympathetic that is the issue. The best way to help foreigners is to spread the message of conservatism to their home countries, to make their countries into lands of opportunity, so that people want to move there.
@Rensune13 жыл бұрын
@MegaKobraKai The issue is not right to life (which it indisputibly is) or independence (which it won't be until they can support themselves) but self determination. China used legalized abortion as a backdoor to saying that they have a say over it's legality, and then made it mandatory (and make no mistake, population will reach the point where control is a legitimate issue). At best I would say it should be a state issue, not federal.
@enotdetcelfer14 жыл бұрын
Yea I actually liked a little audible input from the audience! I'm surprised. I think as long as they don't make it hard to hear what the person is saying it actually might help keep the comments integral. Intelligent conversation with a little parliamentary jiding/cheering might be constructive.
@jms5609js11 жыл бұрын
If a woman in her first trimester of pregnancy is murdered the perpetrator is charged with 2 counts of murder for the woman and her unborn child. If the woman decides to kill her own baby then it's not considered a crime?? Doesn't make sense to me