Caveat Emptor - "Refixing an 1886"

[@bbbcfitchburg2563]

From my perspective as a hobby gun stocker and smith, this was one of the most informative videos you have done recently. Thank you!

[@thecinnabar8442]

You're very welcome!

[@kanonierable]

You really deliver the good stuff! Greetings and best wishes from Switzerland!

[@rickrivers2909]

Mark, great channel. A man with passion that clearly shows in everything you do. I enjoyed every episode learning how it was done back in the early days of gunsmithing. Happy trails to you and Erin.

[@bhoges5145]

Well Mark, you made me do it. I found a nice 1873 3rd model at Collectors in Texas. It's in 32-20. She looks great and needs nothing. If there is anything in the future, you'll be the guy. Watching your videos really made want to finally pull the trigger on one. I can't remember how long I have wanted a real one. I have a knock which is fun but it's never going to replace good old American steel. You answered so many questions for me that would have taken years to research. Thanks!

[@thecinnabar8442]

That's great! Enjoy the heck out of that old piece of history.

[@southronjr1570]

I am really glad you pinted out the reason you need to polish a flat spring after lightening it. I have had to repair quite a few muzzle loaders with broken mainsprings after bubba went in and ground away at the springs and they inevitably would either break or cause the hammers to fall without enough force to set off the caps or not strike the frizzen with enough force to set off the powder in the pan. I have had to educate more than one person who did home gunsmithing on the problem.

[@WilliamJohnson-g6z]

Thanks again for another good video. I always learn something when I watch your channel.

[@claymiller1644]

I always learn something watching your video, very informative👍🏼

[@thecinnabar8442]

Glad to hear it!

[@johnmollet2637]

Great information Mark, I can say I never really contemplated the need to redo the heat treating on a hammer sear notch. I learned something new today.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Glad to help!

[@MChristianson-o5l]

Never cease to amaze😊 Thanks Mark

[@robr1656]

Very interesting. I look forward weekly to your show.

[@maddog6493]

a good smith is worth his weight in gold ,I would have been less than impressed to get a gun back in that state of repair ,nice job doing the clean up of someones mess .

[@johnnyholland8765]

I have built guns with set triggers over the years both muzzle loaders and smokeless so you learn a few things. As you stated angles of engagement on sear and trigger are most important as well as spring strength. When I assemble set triggers I built a simple jig with a small magnifying glass so I can clearly see the angles of engagement and make adjustments if necessary. You are lucky with the Winchesters because of the ability to remove the complete assembly. Some are not that way so you adapt using slave pins and other items. I also made some stoning jigs to accurately square up the parts and get the notches correctly stoned. Sometimes it is a touchy feely thing but always maintain that positive angle. If you are going to do these on a regular basis an optical comparator is indespensable. I had access to one for many years at my last employ but used ones can be found at a reasonable cost. I have a good idea who the shop "back east" was and for what they charge that rifle should have functioned perfectly and you never tell a customer "you don't know how to operate your rifle"...

[@adamw4469]

I was glued to every second of this video. Excellent presentation sir!

[@65LB]

Perfect timing! I have some 86 parts that need to get repaired and this shows me I can drop all of the parts in "one piece" and get them to you for the needed repairs. Two from LONG ago and one from a recent act of stupidity on my part! Trigger/hammer OLD and tang straightening (recent I will have to go look up address in Cody

[@nomanmcshmoo8640]

Excellent video, Sir! I learned a lot, today.

[@thecinnabar8442]

You're very welcome, thank you for watching!

[@markchoate9021]

I would have never figured out what was causing that. Very good work, sir.

[@sgtmajtrapp3391]

Excellent every time. Thanks for your fine work. Enjoy your presentations very interesting

[@thecinnabar8442]

Thanks a bunch, Sarge!

[@mikereinhardt4807]

Very informative, as always. Happy New Year and looking forward to more videos loke this...

[@ralphbernieri3362]

Very informative; you sir are a master gunsmith!

[@bavariasuhl]

there is a large number of gunsmiths (I guess like mechanics) who simply dont understand why certain things were done and thus miss the point when "fixing" guns ... and really dont fix anything ..

[@CandidZulu]

Theoretically the ideal sear engagement would be an arc. But that is very hard to design. I know of only one such instance and that is the Baikal IZH35M target pistol. I own two of them. Downside to this is that the trigger will not feel like "breaking a glass rod" but it will be exceptionally predicable and smooth, which is more important. Rounding off the sear (very slightly) on the trigger, or sear part engaged by the trigger is very important for trigger weight and to make he sear reset if force is backed off on the trigger.

[@digitalimager4946]

Notches? We don't need no steengking notches! Sorry. Couldn't resist. A very informative and enjoyable video. 😂

[@TODinWY]

Great informative stuff, Mark! Thanks.

[@jeffreygraf3358]

Good job Mark and crew!

[@johnross5909]

The last firearm I left at a gunsmith needed a trigger spring changed. I got it back completely dismantled in bags.

[@bearray57]

This was your best video yet! Thank you😊

[@redtobertshateshandles]

I remember when I was an apprentice mechanic, and we'd get motorcycles in who had been worked on by "expert" shops. A mates dad would always make the joke. 😂 This rifle has had the "expert" treatment.

[@Gunner-73]

Appreciate the video. I got one that has a heavy spring. I may order another spring and experiment on it. I have seen what too much positive can do. I had a CZ75 that I bought from Czechoslovakia in 1986. As I pulled the trigger, the hammer moving back would distract my eye. I over corrected it, which allowed the hammer to fall after a new round was chambered, which first time at the range I was getting 2 to 3 round bursts, then emptied my mag. Not quite the desired affect. Scared the Be-jesus out of me first time. I'll try that with the spring. Thanks for sharing.

[@thecinnabar8442]

It only has to be the slightest bit positive to be effective.

[@henrysara7716]

Great video Mark.

[@loupuleff571]

Mark, great work as usual and Happy New Year !! I just did some work on a single action revolver main spring not to long ago got it from 3lbs down to 2.5 with the same technique worked great. If I was the owner of that rifle I would have you go thru the entire rifle the barrel and chamber are probably not correct either what a shame I hope he get's some money back from that shop and if they don't I would go on every forum out there and let everyone know the crap work they do. I also had a dealing with one of the top 1911 companies a few weeks ago the quality of the work was so poor I sent it back and thankfully he refunded all my money I was lucky but it goes to show you the type of junk these companies will put out.

[@steveshoemaker6347]

Thank you Mark...... Old F-4 pilot Shoe🇺🇸

[@kenibnanak5554]

Enjoyable. I was waiting to see how you re-hardened a case hardened part that has been stoned down past the hardened surface. Do you do a whole new case hardening process? I am pretty sure that isn't a high carbon steel hammer (I don't think Winchester was using that steel in hammers yet) so I am at a loss without completely running it through the case hardening process again. But then the case hardening would look new and bright, so maybe another method?

[@Siskiyous6]

I wish I had known about you before I sold my 1892

[@lanedexter6303]

This is fascinating. I’m recalling an early 1886 Dad had (15xxx serial range) in .45-70. I shot it and even handloaded for it. Now I’m wondering if it could have had a single set trigger we didn’t know about. Dad is gone, the gun is gone, but I wonder…🙄

[@burgtaylor3469]

Well done

[@broncota2210]

Excellent vid coach. I learned some stuff

[@hxccomms777]

can you do a video on front sight height and tang sights?

[@wilberfifer5563]

Thanks Mark

[@chrischiampo7647]

Thanks Mark I Know Your The One I Want Too Work on My Rifles 😀😊😎👍🏼

[@thecinnabar8442]

Thanks, Chris!

[@doranmaxwell1755]

Perfect explanation of hardened hammer/sear in my opinion gunsmiths of the day would ruin Smith and Wessons by 'thinning springs' and or stoning said parts to get into the soft parts. On another note I have been nickel plating my BP clone Colts including the star and hands... Not sure how good long term but I no longer see bolt lines on the cylinder nor... any wear on the star. My thinking came from looking at factory nickel guns

[@thecinnabar8442]

That's great! So do I understand that you do the plating yourself?

[@doranmaxwell1755]

@@thecinnabar8442 yes... it really is not difficult or expensive. you will see more and more of it I think because chrome is so toxic you can make a setup for 'small' parts that would cost almost nothing and be very safe. it is very simple mostly... the most labor intensive part is the polishing of the metal if you want a bright finish.

[@jeffryrichardson9105]

Great Educational video thank you!👍🏽😊❤️🇺🇸

[@scotthagele3254]

Very interesting and informative video. It's too bad that that first repair shop messed up the repair. The gun's owner should have sent it to you the initially to have the entire repair done correctly the first time. Once and done!

[@jdhasty8660]

It’s paying attention to the details that make or break it.

[@picklesontheroad]

Is it possible to install a set trigger on an 1866? Or at least lighten the trigger? I have a new (Uberti) 1866 Winchester, just took it out to shoot for the first time this weekend and the trigger is ridiculously heavy. I don't really need a set trigger, but this rifle is a tack driver, so a much better trigger would be a huge benefit.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

It might be possible to pass on the knowledge, but how to pass on passion... that's another thing.

[@Tammy-un3ql]

👍👍👌👌

[@JimmyNorton-kh7lq]

Evidently the guy who did the Initial work was not a gunsmith

[@MichiganSilverBack]

well done sir. a true craftsman. any thoughts on occasional light hammer strikes for an 86 in 45/70?

[@thecinnabar8442]

If you're getting light primer strikes and periodic misfires, the culprit could be a light mainspring or too little firing pin protrusion. To stiffen the mainspring, tighten the strain screw in the lower tang. The firing pin should protrude at least .050" out of the front of the bolt. Best of luck.

[@CandidZulu]

Have you done any "fire cut" ribs?

[@estebanplaya]

Really enjoy your channel, I would really like to know what your favorite rifle and rifle caliber are.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Glad to hear you're enjoying the channel! I'd have a hard time choosing a favorite. It would certainly be one designed in the 19th century. I probably shoot more 44-40 than any other caliber, just because it was chambered in so many firearms of that era.

[@davidazar9090]

#1. Why age metal in the first place, unless the intent is to deceive? The intent at the video onset was to create or enhance The Shooter Rifle. #2. I would have liked to have been able to observe the re-hardening process of the small parts that were ruined by filing. #3. This Gunsmith is, in my opinion, top-shelf in talent and knowledge. He could work on my Firearms anytime!

[@thecinnabar8442]

#1. The customer had the previous gunsmith age the new barrel and magazine to try to match the finish on the rest of the rifle. It was just poorly done. #2. We posted a video on the color case hardening process on Sept. 22nd, 2024. Check it out if you get the chance. #3. Thank you very much!

[@davidazar9090]

@thecinnabar8442 #1. I realize the intended process was done poorly (a courtious understatement). I've seen people purchase a perfectly fine, brand new, knock-off of an antique (say S&W #3 model for example) revolver, and attempted an aging process. They screwed it up, but whether it was screwed up or not, to me it was a total waste. Just MHO. #2. I can't remember now if one of the parts being re-hardened was the piece that has a part that was soldered on. I have re-hardened blades with an oxy-aceteline torch and oil quench, but hitting solder with a torch? Well, I don't need to elaborate. I will definitely WILL check out your video of last September! #3. Seriously, I appreciate a good Gunsmith. It's unfortunate that I truly believe the field has become severely diluted. I don't know how well I trust references.

[@onmilo]

You did not cover the Kasenit reharden.

[@thecinnabar8442]

I've covered that in other episodes. Since we color case harden several times per week, we drop them in with other parts when we CCH. Covering the difference between the two processes may be a good idea for a future episode, though. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@dalearnold8918]

What caliber is your rifle in?

[@doranmaxwell1755]

Always learn something from your vids. I do 'repair' of the kitchen table type... I pride myself on knowing my limitations. lol... I don't... for instance work on valuable guns..mostly if I weld or grind etc on a gun it is a 'junk' gun that no one cares about and has no real value soo... who cares right?

[@thecinnabar8442]

Haha! That's exactly how I got started. Then my OCD kicked in and I just HAD to learn how to do as much as I could.😉

[@doranmaxwell1755]

@@thecinnabar8442 Oddly enough? I kinda sorta thought that may be the case lol

[@Brian.N]

I always look forward to your videos,you are a wealth of information.

[@debluetailfly]

I hope you will change your mind about showing how you age metal on guns. There are always going to be those unprincipled and fraudulent ones who will try to deceive others for filthy lucre. But such techniques are too valuable to take to your grave. I have learned some things about aging painted finishes on furniture and decorative objects. I have seen some techniques presented by some woodworkers for aging metal hardware, such as hinges, to make them look old. I once helped a faux finisher age a new set of kitchen cabinets. The cabinetmaker told us we ruined his cabinets. The homeowners and everyone else loved them! I still get a good feeling when I think about working on that job years ago. I just ordered another book today about aging painted finishes. I don't know that I will ever try to age gun parts, but I might want to apply the technique to something else. I intend to keep learning until the day I die.

[@grassroot011]

The reputable shop should not... be reputable any more. Eh?

[@thecinnabar8442]

They have the reputation of being the best in the restoration business, but their work has really suffered as of late.

[@bearray57]

This was yougf

[@inadequatefoodstuffs]

I'm in no way a professional at finishing, but that aging on the barrel and mag tube is shameful.

[@davidstuck2866]

Well, besides the trigger not functioning properly. The rust on that brand new barrel, and mag tube are HIDIOUS! I would NOT be happy about that at all. I also know first hand about what is (or maybe WAS is a better term) THE best gunsmith in Michigan doing substandard work on my rifle. If I had known it was going to turn out, I would have purchased the tooling to do the job, and I would have attempted the work (replacing the barrel) myself. At least my rifle would not have been sitting in a shop for 16 months, and I wouldn't have had to make 3 trips all the way across the state. Sometimes, at least in my opinion, it' better to try things yourself. At least if your mechanically oriented, and you research how to do it thoroughly.

[@debluetailfly]

I have never had much luck hiring "experts". Their work is typically done incorrectly. I have only known one auto mechanic I could trust, we became good friends, but now he is gone from this earth. That is why I have a lot of tools and books and videos. We could use a lot more honest people with integrity like Mark and the mechanic I knew.

[@MrZcotty]

why not call out the hamfisted smith that did the shoddy work. at least the town they are in. if i have to re-repair some crap work, in an effort to keep others from making the same mistake, i will call them out at every opportunity. subject comes up anywhere, i'm speaking up. "buy the seller" means nothing, if others haven't been told who the shitty sellers are.

[@thecinnabar8442]

I think you'd be quite surprised if you knew who did this work. They are the biggest and best-known restoration shop in the country. I don't want to start a war with them by calling them out by name, but their work has suffered dramatically after some major changes in ownership and leadership.

[@Mtbambeno]

@@thecinnabar8442 Sadly a new captain at the wheel can sure steer a place off course. Has happened to too many companies over the years.