Color Case Hardening at Wyoming Armory

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The Cinnabar

The Cinnabar

Күн бұрын

Join us as we take you through our process of color case hardening at Wyoming Armory.

Пікірлер: 97
@BigHornArmory
@BigHornArmory Ай бұрын
We appreciate the amazing work you've done for us over the years! We have many very happy customers who have purchased our color case hardened guns!
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Thanks! We're proud to have a part in producing those great Big Horn Armory guns!
@JamesThomas-gg6il
@JamesThomas-gg6il Ай бұрын
His philosophy on why the colors don't show up good , is because the calendar date changed. I'm an old school printer and that's the way I describe my machines some days, because it's today not yesterday and it's just not gonna run right. Love it
@davidwalter8576
@davidwalter8576 Ай бұрын
Absolutely stunning results!!! Mark, you Keith and your crew there at the Armory are true gunsmithing craftsmen. The attention to detail and dedication to producing superior results and products is quite clear in the examples shown in your videos. Thank you for another great episode!
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Thank you very much for the compliments.
@Copperheadroad1
@Copperheadroad1 Ай бұрын
I have been looking forward to this video.
@javaduke1
@javaduke1 Ай бұрын
You guys did color case hardening for my Winchester 73 receiver and small parts, about a year ago, it looks absolutely stunning and the price was more than reasonable. Never had a chance to really thank you for the great job so I'll do it here :)
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
You're very welcome! Glad to hear from a happy customer.
@oldiron3735
@oldiron3735 Ай бұрын
Super neat process. The result from that chemical reaction when the carbon adheres to the steel, is one of the very best looking features in firearms. Great video Mark.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
I agree! There's just something about the beautiful finishes of yesteryear.
@richardboquist1531
@richardboquist1531 Ай бұрын
Great video. Thank you.
@WilliamJohnson-g6z
@WilliamJohnson-g6z Ай бұрын
That was amazing. I learned a lot. It is truly a process. You guys get excellent results.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Thanks! As you can probably tell, we're pretty darn proud of the work we're doing here.
@33667406
@33667406 Ай бұрын
Tremendo vídeo! Felicitaciones!! Aclaró mucho mis dudas.
@daveclemons1225
@daveclemons1225 Ай бұрын
Hi Mark! What a great video, and very informative. I've always wondered what made Winchester's, Colt's and other manufacturers case coloring different. Steven's single shots seem to be the most different from the other's manufacturers with their tiger like coloring. In my opionon, and the work I have seen up close, you folks are the best in duplicating color's of the past. Thank you for putting out great video's! Watched it twice!😁
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Thank you very much. I've always been fascinated by the Stevens case colors. They certainly had a twist on the process that created those tiger stripes. Some of the earliest Colt SAA's had a similar look, although very few survive today with original colors. I'd love to figure out how they did it and reproduce it.
@flintrichards945
@flintrichards945 Ай бұрын
Thank you for the very interesting video it’s very fascinating how that color case hardening is done.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
You're very welcome, Flint!
@robr1656
@robr1656 Ай бұрын
Another great episode. Highly interesting subject. Thanks very much for sharing.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
You're very welcome Rob! Glad you enjoyed it
@robr1656
@robr1656 Ай бұрын
@@thecinnabar8442 I love the fact that fella took the time to perfect the old ways the hard way. I understand the obsession and appreciate it.
@freedomsmith
@freedomsmith Ай бұрын
Looking good!
@brivas3343
@brivas3343 Ай бұрын
thank you for a fascinatng episode of a dying art.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
You're very welcome! Thanks for watching.
@jeffgrier8488
@jeffgrier8488 Ай бұрын
That's a really cool process, thanks for giving us a peek!
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
You're very welcome, Jeff!
@Thekarlskorner
@Thekarlskorner Ай бұрын
Thanks again Mark for an extremely informative video on the gun smithing work you and your associates perform. Very clever on the dump process the young man used. Back in the late 1970's I experimented with case hardening on a .22 Winchester project doing the hammers and triggers. Using bone meal and leather on advise from the Dixie Gun Works catalog I did get good hardening, but not real bright colors. As always, your videos are a welcome sight for us all. Best regards, Karl
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Thanks Karl! As you found, getting the parts to case harden is a relatively straight forward process. Getting good colors takes quite a bit of fine tuning.
@morelanmn
@morelanmn Ай бұрын
Thank you for showing us QUALITY smith work
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
You're very welcome! Thanks for watching
@hercules1073
@hercules1073 Ай бұрын
Color case hardening is an art that not even the artist can predict. I wish modern firearms were still artistically crafted. I miss the old companies too...all that remains with them are trademarks... same thing with great old American knife manufacturers.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
We color case harden for a few smaller modern manufacturers, like the Big Horn Armory receivers in this video. Unfortunately, guns are made cheaply and in bulk on assembly lines by the larger manufacturers and craftsmanship is largely a thing of the past.
@33667406
@33667406 Ай бұрын
​@@thecinnabar8442. Si señor, gran verdad, su reflexión sobre como se fabrican las armas hoy...mucho plástico y poco acero.
@ricktaylor5744
@ricktaylor5744 Ай бұрын
Beautiful work mark and crew, thank you so much for sharing.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Thanks a bunch, Rick!
@udflyer98
@udflyer98 Ай бұрын
Thanks for another great video Mark. I'm surprised how low the temperature is for this process. I figured it would be performed at 1400 or so degrees to be above the recrystallization temperature of the steel. Especially for the annealing step. Learning new tricks that I can share with my engineering students.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
I intentionally didn't reveal the temperature we use for case color hardening, only for the annealing step. Sorry, but there are several details in our recipe that we consider proprietary.
@udflyer98
@udflyer98 Ай бұрын
@@thecinnabar8442 I fully understand keeping your cards close to the vest. I know enough about metallurgy to be dangerous. Would love to talk shop sometime if you come to an OGCA meeting. Hated to miss this weekend with WACA in town. Too many hobbies!
@bluescatreimer
@bluescatreimer Ай бұрын
Beautiful work!
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Thanks a bunch!
@bluescatreimer
@bluescatreimer Ай бұрын
@@thecinnabar8442 Your very welcome!
@jeffryrichardson9105
@jeffryrichardson9105 Ай бұрын
Beautiful work!👍🏽😊❤️🇺🇸
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Thanks, Jeffry!!
@davidstuck2866
@davidstuck2866 Ай бұрын
I REALLY DID ENJOY this episode! This is a fascinating subject that to be honest, I never really thought about how it was done. And those receivers are drop dead gorgeous! If I had the money, I would send you my Marlin to do. But, kids come before gun athstetics. so maybe after they are grown and on their own. I have also never heard of "bone charcoal. I'm going to look into that, just out of curiosity. I don't think I would ever try doing that on my own. Thank you for giving us a peek at how it is done. And NO ONE would blame you for not giving away your trade secrets. But somebody should write them down, and put those instructions in a safe, with very specific instructions that the information not be shared. It would be a shame for all that work to "go to the grave" again.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
All of the information on the process is readily available today. There are, however, differences in the exact combinations that different operators use to achieve desired results. We consider our exact formula to be proprietary.
@williamkaiser8067
@williamkaiser8067 Ай бұрын
The fact that it doesn't always come out right, or at all, just proves the point that it is, in part, a black art. Some part of the sacrifice didn't go as well as it might, or you had a stain (probably pizza) on your black cape, or you fumbled over the words of your incantation. But goodness, what color on that 95! Gorgeous. What interests me is 'how thick is that hardened section'? Is it measured in mils, millimeters. or what? And that tiny little faction of an inch will wear a long, long time? Amazing.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
The hardened layer is typically only around .005" deep. It wears very well. Hammers and sears were hardened with this method in vintage firearms. The hardened skins on them will still be intact after thousands of cycles and firings.
@errolpoxleitner9586
@errolpoxleitner9586 Ай бұрын
Very good show
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Thanks Errol!
@bradb.4570
@bradb.4570 Ай бұрын
STUNNING results. I am trying to figure out if color like this only comes from harder steel or whatever steel is used in firearms. I am attempting to make my own Cap Lock rife from scratch and I am trying to figure out what metal to use. I don't know if i want to case harden mild steel or if I want to use a higher carbon steel. I want this rifle to last obviously.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Most color case hardening is, and was done in the past, with mild steel. However, we are having good result with colors in some of the lower carbon through-hardening steels, like 4140
@bradb.4570
@bradb.4570 Ай бұрын
@@thecinnabar8442 Thank you for the reply, I might stick with trying mild steel, after all it will be easy to work with obviously, Thanks again!
@henrysara7716
@henrysara7716 Ай бұрын
Thank you Mark.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
You're more than welcome, Henry!
@garyb.4080
@garyb.4080 Ай бұрын
What would you say the penetration depth of color is? The reason I’m asking, is I got an old Parker S/S, that I bought at a sale, it has very little of the color left on it. It was in bad shape whenI got it, and in trying to clean it, I noticed some was rubbing off, and I truthfully was being gentle, I didn’t want to lose any that was left, so I just oiled it, and gently rubbed it down. It is what it is, it still exists, and looks a lot better than when I got it. Just eyeballing, I would guess 15% color left.
@chrischiampo7647
@chrischiampo7647 Ай бұрын
Very Interesting How The Process Is Done Mark What Type Bone Material Do You Use Does Different Animal Bone Create Different Colors or Does it Not Make a Difference 😊
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
The only commercially available bone charcoal we know about is made from cattle.
@JoeRiordon
@JoeRiordon Ай бұрын
Great video!
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Thanks! Glad you liked it Joe!
@clutchcargo1239
@clutchcargo1239 Ай бұрын
Good stuff, I enjoyed!!
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Thanks so much for watching!
@bwanalouie7569
@bwanalouie7569 Ай бұрын
A most interesting episode, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Now, how about nickle plating? Do you do that? I have a rifle and a revolver that are in need of re-plating.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
I'm sorry but we don't offer nickle plating.
@markcarew6724
@markcarew6724 Ай бұрын
I bought a Winchester model 1894 circa 1904, chambered in 25-35 Winchester with the close coupled set triggers. I should probably contact you about doing case colours for this rifle.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
We'd be happy to talk to you about it. www.wyomingarmory.com/
@BillB23
@BillB23 Ай бұрын
At 16:05 I've used a crescent hammer like that a time or two myself.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Haven't we all? 😁
@neilkratzer3182
@neilkratzer3182 Ай бұрын
Just like the art of damascus barrels. They make some of the most gorgeous firearms. If you find a nice original is there anyway to test the coating. I would be leaning toward the violin type coating
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Gotta love the look of case colors and damascus.
@loupuleff571
@loupuleff571 Ай бұрын
Great video you guys do you do small parts like muzzleloader hammers and lock plates ?
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Yes, we do. Our price list for CCH is on our website. www.wyomingarmory.com/services.html
@Almost_Made_It
@Almost_Made_It Ай бұрын
Do these parts need to be braced in any way to prevent warping while heated? I thought I had heard that the kilns will throw off tolerances/warp bolt channels if you don’t keep them rigidly in place with some type of jig
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
I've used blocking in the past, but we don't feel it's necessary. We do get a little movement at times, but no more or less if blocking is used. If it moves a little, we gently heat it and move it back. Remember, the steel is still malleable under the thin hardened surface and can still be moved without damage.
@dougdukes1039
@dougdukes1039 Ай бұрын
Can you reuse the same charcoal more than once?
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
You can, but we've found its effects on color and hardness diminish each time it's used. For that reason, we don't reuse our charcoal.
@asherdog9248
@asherdog9248 Ай бұрын
Is it possible to color case harden a modern replica receiver that has chemical case hardening?
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Yes, in most instances. Carbon steels can be case color hardened. Stainless steels an MIM steels can't. There are some very thin parts that we don't color case harden because they are more prone to warpage and usually won't take very good colors. Give us a call if you have questions. www.wyomingarmory.com/
@curtisvonepp4335
@curtisvonepp4335 Ай бұрын
SLIVERS OF LETHER ADDED
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
We don't use leather or arsenic (or any other gimmicks), only wood and bone charcoal.
@billhatcher2984
@billhatcher2984 Ай бұрын
I learned one thing the metal isn't as hot as I tried when I tried it
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
I intentionally didn't reveal the temperature we use to color case harden, only the temperature we use to anneal (or soften) the parts.
@MitchellRing
@MitchellRing Ай бұрын
Sir i have a question.....what do you do with a sintered( i think i spelled that right) metal gun???? i just redone a Winchester model 94 which had this and when i started it i thought i had really messed up ...couldn't get bluing to take at all...i ended up doing a rust blue on it and i'm happy with the results but i was wondering if there is another method to doing this...can the receiver on these be color case hardened or what would be the best option for those types of metals???...thank you for any advice you might give...i don't have the equipment as you do to do a case hardening but i would like to try if i ever could as i have a couple of single shot shotgun receivers that are case hardened...otherwise i will be shipping it to you....
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Sintered steel can't be case color hardened. Rust blue or Cerakote are probably the best options available.
@MitchellRing
@MitchellRing Ай бұрын
@@thecinnabar8442 thank you...i didn't know if it could or not but thought it was worth asking....it took me awhile to figure out this by trial and error..lol..i'm still learning and kicking myself for not starting this gunsmithing hobby at a younger age as fine old guns have always been my joy to own and repair...
@Oldtanktapper
@Oldtanktapper Ай бұрын
Have you tried annealing in an inert atmosphere like nitrogen, or using a protective flux on the metal? It might cut down the time it takes to prep for the next step if the metal doesn’t get so much scale on it when heated.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Actually, scale probably isn't the right word for it. It's just a fine dusting of what I believe is the carbon that's migrated out of the steel during the annealing process. It comes off in seconds with a fine glass bead blast and thankfully doesn't visibly effect the surface finish.
@ericschulze5641
@ericschulze5641 Ай бұрын
Have you tried adding hydrogen peroxide to the water ? That would increase the 02 level dramatically
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Interesting thought.
@MarkRobson-fq8pp
@MarkRobson-fq8pp Ай бұрын
You forgot to mention the camel urine. That's why most places that CC back east are near a zoo. Perhaps your formula uses bison urine? I've gotten decent results with LC Smith parts. Those are basically 1020. Would you give a hint if there are major temp differences between manufacturers ? I've been having a hard time finding the wood charcoal. I now one guy that has been using coconut charcoal. Can you share any sources for pre-ground wood char?
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
We get our wood charcoal from Humphrey Charcoal. They offer a wide range of granulation sizes.
@williamray3101
@williamray3101 Ай бұрын
I got a 25-35. Made1905 and a 30-30 made 1907. Both 26" octagon barrels.and great shape.nothinf beats more than 125 years of petina.
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Absolutely! But what about the hundreds of thousands (or maybe millions) of vintage firearms that have been poorly refinished or badly abused and no longer have their original finish? There are a vast number of firearms that are no longer wearing their original finish and deserve a better fate.
@curtisvonepp4335
@curtisvonepp4335 Ай бұрын
WHERE'S THE ARSNIC ```?
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Haha! I've heard rumors of others using arsenic, but you won't find any around this shop. We get great colors without it.
@curtisvonepp4335
@curtisvonepp4335 Ай бұрын
BEES WAX
@thecinnabar8442
@thecinnabar8442 Ай бұрын
Interesting thought. I'll give that a try, but I don't think it would be durable enough to last on guns that get used.
@curtisvonepp4335
@curtisvonepp4335 Ай бұрын
@@thecinnabar8442 ARSNIC GIVS YOU THE SURFACE HARDNES USED PROPERLY ITS SAFE.
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