Caverna: the Cave Farmers Review - with Tom Vasel

[@mozsiman]

You are a pleasure to watch Tom, you seem like such a genuine guy with a beautiful family. Thank you for your. Videos.

[@petec3250]

Hey Tom. Just wondering in 2016 what is your opinion now - Le Havre compared to Caverna? If I can only buy one of the two, which one should it be? After playing Caverna many times, some said that they really miss the focus that your cards give you at the beginning of the game in Agricola. Do you agree after having Caverna for 2 years now? Or do you stand by your review - That Caverna kills Agricola and is one of the greatest games of all time?

[@marzzbar]

If there was a Tom Vasel review drinking game, I think one of the rules would be to take a drink every time he says "As the game progresses" :D

[@whothennow24]

Or every time he says "pwayer."

[@NeoGenMike]

But what if the game progresses?

[@BrianGeringer]

NOTHING will replace Agricola.

[@TheWarmupLap]

I can't tell. Did he like it?

[@GeekControl2MajorTim]

"You're in trouble: spend a ruby." Oh my god, they've put micro-transactions into a boardgame :o

[@princeedwin4386]

I guess Im asking randomly but does anybody know of a trick to get back into an instagram account? I was stupid lost my password. I love any assistance you can offer me

[@kianzechariah9181]

@Prince Edwin Instablaster :)

[@princeedwin4386]

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[@princeedwin4386]

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[@kianzechariah9181]

@Prince Edwin Happy to help :D

[@Bandgelo]

So Tom, any word on Caverna against Le Havre?

[@brianbowles4385]

Okay Tom, I watched your video, bought the game and... I feel like you do. This game is amazing!!!! My only complaint is that it ends too soon. I want to do so many things and I'm having so much fun I want to shuffle up the cards and keep going. Thanks to you, Zee, Sam and the whole Dice Tower team for helping us find the best games for our money! Oh, and just so you know, next I am going back and picking up Le Harve based on your review of it. Brian

[@bvelhacob]

The name is not dumb. It means "cave", in Portuguese (and I think in some latin languages)

[@harald851]

For someone who hasn't played or doesn't own any of those two games (Agricola and Caverna), which one would you suggest I get? Thanks for the great review Tom!

[@Kajotex]

I also wonder if the interaction between players is high enough. I never played agricola and don't know if players are interacting enough. If it's minimal I'd rather play a game that has more. Games with minimal player interaction feel like singleplayer.

[@crsunik567]

Tom, does anything changed during the year since review? Do you still enjoy it more than Agricola and/or La Harvey?

[@crsunik567]

La Havre *

[@Matt_Sorensen]

Played this for the first time tonight with four others (2 of whom love Agricola, the rest of us haven't played any of them). It took us several hours as 3 of us were learning from scratch and the other two had only played Caverna twice. You are right about the weapons thing, I was the only one who didn't go for them and I won (even got an 8 point room because I didn't use weapons). My strategy was to start collecting sheep and planting crops and making babies asap. Then once all that was established I started worrying about filling out the cavern spaces. This game is awesome.

[@DerekMcDow]

New drinking game: every time Tom says: “As the game progresses!” Great review, btw! :D

[@josephengelhardt]

I also added in every time he says "Dunkey"

[@blueeyed32]

Hi Tom. First of all let me congraulate you for your channel. I think this is the video I needed to see. Let me explain: I'm new to boardgaming, but there are 4 games that caught my eye, 3 of them are in this video, the other is Robinson Crusoe. I was uncertain if it was better to get Agricola or Caverna. No more doubts. But Le Havre seems to be very cool also, even if it seems to scratch a different itch, maybe it's because of the theme, or the different mechanics, I don't know. Just a question, if I may ask: Considering I'm mostly a solo gamer and have a very tight budget, what do you think is a better game to get first, Robinson Crusoe or Caverna?

[@fnord3125]

Wow. Tom is often enthusiastic, but I've never seen him gush like this. Pretty amazing. The price on Caverna made me hesitate, but only a moment... I always knew I was going to get this, and the couple videos I've watched on it, just made me more confident about it.

[@alexmatusiak]

I think I'll miss drafting cards and building strategies/backup plans before the game. Also I don't get the Dwarf theme - seems pointless to sprinkle fantasy theme in this. That aside, there's no doubt this will sit beside the other Uwe titles on the shelf! For me it won't replace Agricola because the tension and difficulty of vanilla Agricola is what keeps me going back to it, not unlike punishing cooperatives etc. Great review as always!

[@alanricker]

I received the water expansion, but no rules to it. Do you know where I could find those?

[@lordsplodge]

Caverna is a brilliant game, it really is. However Caverna and Agricola can co-exist on your game shelf. They're different enough and Agricola + Farmer of the Moor is much more hardcore and so suits the need for a knife-edge style game.

[@watchmaker17]

Tom, I feel like you didn't have a strong enough opinion on it and was left wondering if you would recommend this game or not.

[@StyxTBuferd]

So glad to get it for $62 with free shipping at cool stuff. I wanted to try Agricola, but I have to admit it's probably much easier to get my friends to play this one due to its similarity to Minecraft. I LOVE the solo game too. A bit long to clean up/put away, but it's a great time killer.

[@HvaZaDe]

I talked to a friend about this game, and as I described he called also called it Minecraft: the Board Game. Cool.

[@KaeptnButterbrot]

I did get myself a copy at Essen Spiel and had not played any Rosenberg except Bohnanza before. Caverna immediatley became one of my favorites. I have to totally agree with Tom. Caverna is one of the best games (if not the best) I have played so far. I have played it with every possible setup between 2 and 5 players and it works awesome in every situation. Would not go higher then 5 though.

[@spiderfingers86]

what about Agricola revised edition?

[@NemoNint]

Caverna is so much fun!! I was inspired to buy it partly by this video, and partly by its high ranking on BoardGameGeek, and my local game store owner's review of it being the "heaviest" boxed board game.. haha. Sometimes I watch this review video when I cannot sit down and play the game with friends. Kinda silly, yeah. Great review video :)

[@big1joey]

Let me start off by saying, I've never played Agricola. I heard about this great new game was coming out named... you guessed it, Caverna. It is a beast to learn and probably harder for me because I didn't have a background in Agricola. There are soon many little rules that it does take a bit of time to play the first few rounds around. But let me tell you... this is my favorite game by far. There is so much room to let you explore and build in any way you want. Do you want to mine more or farm more? Plus it's nice that there is a certain number of rounds so there is known time limit. After watching this video, certain things popped out at me. Firstly, some of his explanations are not correct but I think he was so excited he was just rambling at times. i.e., you level up your weapon after each exhibition. also dogs are not counted as farm animals. secondly, there ALOT of pieces that make the game almost unbearable to set up. However, there are sites online that provided instructions to make a hard board dividers that hold all your pieces in a nice orderly fashion and allow it to fit in the box perfectly. I know this because I made it within weeks due to how much of a hassle pulling bags out of the box are. All you need is a sharp knife, hot glue, and hard black board. Easy! Overall, this game is sooooo fun, My wife was able to learn it within the second time around and she's is not nearly the gamer that I am so don't be discouraged if you hear other comments about its complexity. I was able to pick it up a local game store in Richmond, VA for HALF PRICE because it was in the scratch and dent section. So lucky but I was willing to pay full price as well. I never tried it solo, Only played it with 2 players so far. Get it, you'll never regret it.

[@jakewilliamson9741]

Him: drops stuff My frames:ima head out

[@dominges297]

Hi Tom So, pls tell me now which game is Your favorite (Caverna or La Havre)

[@AndyVandercoy]

first time playing this game at game night. It's really great even with 6 but is a bit to wait for your turn, therfore the first player spot with the Ruby is always tempting. I totally forgot about animals and filled the cave but with the Ruby mine, ore mine and the building that let's you feed your people with ore...super great combo. Buying this game asap

[@razzledazzle15]

What's the name of that little tinwhistle tune that plays during the component pour?

[@Arbie812]

So for sleeving purposes, does Caverna use the same sized cards as Agricola?

[@jecabreradc]

Great video, thanks for the in depth detail on the comparisons.

[@arturbies]

I suppose that Dwarf Fortress (computer game) could be one of the inspirations here.

[@Telmdal]

That's what I thought of when I saw this.

[@marke4834]

I knew the component drop for this game was going to be epic.....I was not disappointed!

[@NicholasLA1]

Great review as always Tom. My wife hated Agricola because the feeding her people thing stressed her out too much but I think this may be something we'd both love.

[@bradymccann]

what's a dunkey?

[@plynch5349]

What music is that being used during him dumping out all the pieces?

[@SirEtherealOne]

I bit the bullet on this and bought it after reading a bit about it. Haven't got a chance to play it yet but glad to see I'm unlikely to regret the purchase.

[@Platonick66]

My birthday tomorrow and hoping (likely) to get this - so have planned a day of gaming!

[@chrisgallo2236]

If you don't want it I'll take your copy of Agricola Tom.

[@BenWalker]

Toppling the great Agricola will be hard to do I think. It does look great - although a bit more complicated...

[@Ziraffo]

if Tom is 6 foot 4, then Melody is a taaaallll girl! Because she doesn't look that small beside her dad.

[@lguilhermedds]

Hehe, I loved your co-reviewer Tom. Keep up the good stuff.

[@Kajotex]

I'd really like Zee's and Sam's opinion on this too. We know you love games like this, but do people who are not _that_ into agricola also like it?

[@pepagacy]

I played this game at a convention a year ago with 7 players learning how to play it. The game took over four hours to play, and we still did not finish it. I will never play this game again with that many players. Like Tom says, I will probably stick with 4 to 5 players at the most.

[@tttucker15]

hahaha. Love the part when you dump out the box w sound effects! Amazing!

[@ikesteroma]

Oh great. Another board I gotta add to my collection. All well. Life is always better with another good game.

[@ikesteroma]

...but then again, Amazon has it listed for almost $120. WTF?!?

[@ikesteroma]

Thanks for the heads up. It looks like the price is sky high because it is out of stock.

[@ikesteroma]

Thanks bro!

[@pastorpainter]

And I did get it! Couldn't even wait for Christmas to open it.

[@grog3514]

All my games of agricola have only seen one person have to take a begging token. Its also easy to house rule that each worker only needs one food per harvest instead of two. Then you never have to think about food and you can build massive sheep farms if that's what you want to do. Caverna is bloated and there's no place to put the room tiles where everyone can see them well. We always end up putting them in a central location so everyone can be equally frustrated.

[@smoothcriminal28]

Tom... Have u played keyflower ?

[@HeirToPendragon]

Finally played this. Was a two player game with my girlfriend. It is, by far, better than Agricola in every way. It is like Agricola 2.0 and so so so much better.

[@afriendofafriend5766]

Please play Fields of Arle and tell me if this or Arle is better.

[@tomasspipass]

I don't believe you will never play Agricola anymore Tom! any other game you would throw to the floor without a seconds thought but Agricola, even replaced was carried out the room with reverence :)

[@MrJustintreat]

I love this game. I could play it ALL DAY LONG!!!!!!!!!!

[@rttmx]

Dunkeys

[@davekoehnlein4575]

Tom, I don't know that any other slo-mo pour will compare to this one

[@pinoyed]

Will Tom have to re-do his top 100?

[@TyphoidBryan]

In no way would this replace Agricola. The tiles are a step back from the interesting randomness of the cards. The Occupations/Improvements were more or less a strategic path for you to head down when improving your homestead. In Caverna, everything is plopped down on the table offering every player essentially the same choices. Replay value on the game drops due to this, in my opinion. Uwe kept the progressive revealing of cards from round to round, but even some of those are predetermined. Agricola is great from its variability, this one seems fun, though likely a bit "samey" after a few plays. This game is no longer on my wishlist.

[@dannydoesright]

Looks good, but the slightly discounted price at CSI is...81 bucks. I am usually not that concerned with price since value is based on many things, but this is stretching it.

[@GeekedupgamingTabletop]

Hey guys. Check out the all new thrashcar now on kick starter

[@KingOfNormans]

I played my first game of Caverna yesterday, and won because the player who'd be ahead of me got a Begging tile :D

[@ixi8]

"As the game progresses" count: 10

[@Arbie812]

Ha! Great to see Tom so excited for a game.

[@winterplum]

Wow...not sure if you like this game or not...(just kidding), ;) I can't afford this game currently, but it is certainly on my 'to buy' list. I am glad to hear that this is not exactly an 'Agricola' clone. Great, (and timely), review. Boy, you have sure been busy with the videos this week, I just don't know how you do it. Thank you for your dedication to the hobby.

[@thecroseknows]

I've never seen a review like this by Tom. I must have this game now.

[@thecroseknows]

But maybe I'll wait to see what Zee says about it.

[@digitalbeing]

Absolutely epic component drop this time!

[@JevousGaming]

Is Agricola really pronounced "A-greek-ala"? I've always pronounced it "Agri - cola" like "Angry - cola".

[@xD3adKl0wnx]

a-GRI-coh-la is probably the closest proper way. though a lot say a-GRICK-oh-la as well

[@Ulfnarr]

i confirm the right pronunciation is the one heard in the video.

[@SirEtherealOne]

So I may be going out on a limb here but somehow I get the feeling you are not of a fan of this game? Did you actually play the game?

[@rorirants9468]

So surprised it replaces Agricola for you. Interesting!

[@TheEsse999]

I played Agrigola and I hated it, it was boring and "claustrophobic". Than I played Caverna and for me it's totally different, much of fun, more easy to learn and much less "claustrophobic".

[@paulamoss26]

I think Tom likes this game.... it's now on my list to get....

[@Guibsx]

Tom, its "le havre", not "le havra". For none French speaking people, just forget there is an "e" at the end and you will be closer. Anyway, your review made me add this to my wish list. Not a fan of agricola and Le Havre but this one might add what was missing for me to give it a try.

[@textkestrel]

We never have enough stone/rock in our games. The game only ships with 25 stone compared to 45 wood.

[@benanaman]

You could just go outside and get some actual rocks.

[@EmmaCastro87]

Of course you talk me into wanting this game, and then it's sold out on Cool Stuff Inc and Amazon... bummer.

[@wroot_lt]

So, Cosmic Encounter finally dethroned? :D

[@juliencote78]

This is the MINECRAFT version of agricola!

[@biglar155]

Funny, I thought exactly the same thing. Not that that's a bad thing.... :)

[@juliencote78]

Indeed!

[@StyxTBuferd]

That's exactly how I get my friends to play this :P I tell them it's Minecraft: The Board Game.

[@thephantomhennes]

I think he likes it.

[@TRez5000]

Best component drop ever!!!

[@FenrisChosen]

Sold! Thanks Tom!

[@bookaddict777]

Oh, yeah. Christmas here I come!

[@Icagel0]

What's dumb about the game being called "Cave"? You are building your cave and surroundings after all... you could make a point for it being called Cavernas, as there are multiple caves... It might be referred ti the subtitle, but I think it just gives further clarification for the game style.

[@somegoblin]

If you have two or more Dunkeys you'll get an extra Dunkey..wow three Dunkeys that would be quite the world

[@giantlobsterboy644]

I believe Tom when he says "X game" is the best he has ever played. He says it so much that I am starting to get disillusioned to that claim.

[@TapCat]

What he actually said was "this is one of the best games I have ever played." That's a very different thing from declaring it the single best. And in the year since this review, as he has continued to enthuse about the game it's clear that this was not just initial excitement, he really loves it. And this disillusions you because...?

[@HarfangX]

Well this game looks very lackluster to me... I've only seen the art in videos but it's not the kind of art that usually appeals to me... the theme is very meh to me... But after that review I feel I need to investigate the game now and give it a chance :)

[@jaxommm]

Yes I did...and I pre-ordered it (without paying) for Essen purchase. It just wasn't innovative in any way and wasn't worth the exorbitant price tag! I am much happier that I went home with Lewis and Clark, King and Assassins, Steam Park, and Legacy, to name a few. However, if you liked Agricola, you'll likely love this one. I thought Agricola was super boring. Caverna is a slight step up!

[@HarfangX]

sooo... I'm looking at Tom's top 10 worker placement games. www.dicetower.com/top_ten_lists/current-top-ten-list-worker-placement-games.html Agricola is not in it. Le Harvre is not in it. Looking at his top 100 for 2013... Lords of Waterdeep (his #20 for 3013 is number 10 in his top 10 worker placement list)... Le Havre didn't make his top 10 worker placement list, Agricola didn't make his top 10 worker placement list... Now you might be saying it's an old top 10 list... well it's from April '13 so at this point is exactly 7 months old. . The bottom line is... the level of excitement you see in the final segment of this review just needs to be put into perspective. Lets put this game in your top 10 worker placement game... is it number 17? 18? 32? Is this better than Lords of Waterdeep? Better than Aliens Frontiers? From this review I almost feel like I need to drop everything and go buy this game or pitch a tent outisde my gaming store until it comes in.... But then if you would not get rid of Le Havre for it... does it mean I should really look at other stuff in your top 10 worker placement list instead of this since Le Havre is not even in your top 10?

[@AlexTheUruguayan]

It's possible that, even if it technically is worker placement, Tom doesn't consider Le Havre in that type because you only have one worker and it doesn't feel like any other worker placement game...

[@Medsas]

lol Zee said it was good not great, I assume Tom played with him :)

[@Mifoi]

Wow, with a review like that I will try it! lol :)

[@dmpsodapop]

can't believe tom forgot about mentioning ora & labora

[@zmikers]

Hmmmm, I wonder if Tom likes Caverna????? I just can't tell!

[@Medsas]

there's no occupation or improvement cards in this game... i suspect it is more like ora & labora than agricola...

[@ghorticus]

dat component drop tho :O

[@dboussios8694]

At least the game seems to be progressing quite a bit! ;) thanks for the review... Me thinks this game is not for me tho.

[@stefanobradamante3293]

nothing is better than agricola!

[@theeponym]

Even if Sam and Zee hate it, I'm sure they'll be happy to never hear about Agricola again.

[@Fergit_]

Looks like quite the clusterwhoops.

[@wroot_lt]

I hope Ruby was not around while recording this review and didn't hear all these "spend the ruby" :) And, we will probably never see Terra Mystica review :))

[@chanm01]

Wait... replaces Agricola completely? Will never play Agricola again? I gotta say I didn't see that coming.

[@jaxommm]

I couldn't justify 60 Euros at Essen for an Agricola redo...not when there were great new themes out there!

[@pmc07pro]

Looks Awesome.

[@andrwsl]

As the game progresses.