Nurse practitioner clinics in Ontario are charging patients for primary care

[@slipdipwaterypoo5420]

It's crazy that provincial mismanagement of our healthcare system leaves us putting up with worse quality and higher prices.

[@alexg9727]

Did the provincial government bring 1 million immigrants per year here and overload the system?

[@alexg9727]

Immigration policy is 100% federal

[@yaa40]

​@@alexg9727 While I agree with you 100% that we do not have the services required for bringing in anywhere near a million immigrants annually (I don't know if we have 1% of those services), it would be a folly to attribute a fairly new issue with a long-standing under-funding and over-working our provincial healthcare system. This goes back at least a decade, maybe more. It's just that since the pandemic things have deteriorated, and quickly. Still, immigration or not, healthcare is a provincial responsibility. I do not blame the premier for immigration and I do not blame the PM for the healthcare crisis. Still, they are both helping each other make things MUCH worse. No idea what will be next, but I'm sure it'll be bad...

[@alexg9727]

@@yaa40 Just be honest with yourself for once. Liberals love using the immigrants like a human farm

[@ThomasGlen-fd9lj]

Thanks for this video, it pains me that after studding so hard I end up failing 💔😪, I've taken the exams for the 4th time now and still didn't succeed, i wonder how those who succeeded did it.

[@WilliamsAnthony-lc9xi]

You will pass Every one has their own season, just keep going, pray and believe you will receive, though The NP exam has a lot of new stuff in it

[@JacksonMichael-he4ps]

Took my NP-RN test last week and passed with 150 questions on my second try!!, Huge Thanks to mr Andrew, he is a game changer

[@roseStifler]

I have sat for NP Exam for the 6th time now and still failed, i guess license isn't meant for people like me, like what am I not doing right ?

[@แดบบี้แซตตี้]

So sorry to hear you guys complain deeply of failing the exam. But I will assure you that NP exam won't be a problem to you anymore,if you work with someone like Mr Andrew . he help me through my exam and I made it through.

[@JackPlus-e9n]

Really, you'll know him Too? I even thought I was the only one he has helped walk through the fears and falls of NP Exam, Mr Andrew has brought me out of the trenches and to a better living, I encourage repeat test taker to work with him.

[@ThermalThings]

The issue isn't the NP's charging patients... the issue is the government not allowing the NP's to bill them directly. There is a shortage of primary care providers. Allowing direct billing by NP's is a part of the solution.

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

I suspect they want to have nothing to do with OHIP

[@jptrainor]

You'd think this would be a no brainer.

[@lightbringer851]

We can thank the doctor groups for being excellent lobbyists to politicians in keeping the money to themselves. In 1998, US Congress passed a law to allow NPs to bill through Medicare from coast to coast this was legislated to alleviate access to health care in poor rural states, we need freedom and liberty in Canada and end this complicated bureaucracy once and for all.

[@WTlufd]

Manitoba NDP after only being in power for a few months opened up, taxpayer funded nurse practitioner lead clinics where people don’t have to pay out of pocket, but can get seen very quickly

[@cynthiameyers7529]

When I was living in Miramichi, NB, nurse practitioners were the way to go. Thank goodness for the many men and women who work in the nursing profession. We need you!

[@coco_k]

I worked at a clinic, and it's okay to charge people who don't have a care card (tourists, short-term students, etc.), aka private patients. But it is illegal to charge a fee directly for someone who has a care card.

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

During the eye doctor strike, my son was screened as possibly myopic by the family doctor. I could not get him an eye exam, even after offering to pay for it, because it is ILLEGAL, according to the front office staff. I couldn't believe my own ears. An illegal eye exam for a kid!!!!!!

[@jptrainor]

It's not illegal to change for services that are not covered by OHIP. It happens all the time.

[@discocesoir]

I’d rather pay $75 per visit but would get the help right away when it’s needed but not in 3-6 months for $0 when all could just get much worse.

[@gregjeffries361]

Clear leveraging of a loophole in the system to the max. This should be shut down in my opinion...let the NPs bill OHIP for services rendered and bring it in line with public health care...otherwise it is a steady erosion to two-teired care.

[@jptrainor]

It's not a loop hole. Just a hole. Easy to fix OHIP.

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

What does my relationship with my NP I pay directly have to do with you?

[@Marcus-ss4gn]

Why a nurse is acting like a doctor? We have foreign doctors driving ubers, in fact we have 30.000 of them in the country unable to practice medicine because of Liberal & NDP redtape. Let them work, bring a blue seal for foreign educated doctors.

[@lightbringer851]

Because you live in a western country, were western medicine was developed and health care technology is far advanced.

[@Marcus-ss4gn]

​@@lightbringer851 You're totally off base, you know? Medicine isn't necessarily more advanced in Canada. I mean, just consider those insane wait times - like 18 hours in emergency care or waiting over two years for surgery. It's absolutely ridiculous! If you ever find yourself facing a serious health issue, give me a shout. I can hook you up with medical care back in my home country in the East. And hey, just to set the record straight, medical science actually originated in the East, not the West. 😂advanced healthcare... my arse.. you must have never left Canada ever.😂

[@lightbringer851]

@@Marcus-ss4gn Canada is actually one of the leading countries with advanced medical technology on top of that a lot of medical breakthroughs in medicine originated in Canada such as insulin, HIV medication. Weather u like it or not the books you will study in medicine all originated in the western hemisphere which came from the scientific revolution in Europe. Eastern medicine is commonly based on traditional treatments such as acupuncture or worse quack healers doctors. I know its hard to believe but maybe try opening a medical book and read the authors.

[@Marcus-ss4gn]

@@lightbringer851 Keep going on about "insulin" as it's Canada's only claim to medical fame since forever. Seriously, how old is Canada, anyway? My home country is a hot spot for medical tourists, while Canada isn't even on the radar of anybody. And you really think healthcare here is top-notch? People are dropping dead while waiting an insane 18 hours just to see a doctor in what they call a "hospital." It's a joke. Funny enough, my home country sees its fair share of "Canadian" medical tourists every year. The sad truth is, if you ever get seriously sick, you'll be screaming for help in Canada while I can jet off back home for treatment. I wish things were better here, but it's big shots like you blocking immigrant docs and nurses from working here, and we're the ones paying the price. Waiting 2-3 years for emergency surgery, or spending nearly a day in emergency care just to see a doc. Let's not kid yourself, Canada's healthcare system is a mess, one of the worst in the world. Don't fool yourself.

[@JasenMacTurdsen]

​@lightbringer851 You are delusional... Healthcare system in Canada is maybe better than Afghanistan but not Dubai, Qatar, Saudi Arabia or any eastern European countries...

[@hhustlehumble1]

What kind of condition would you have to go to a NP run clinic? If you go for a yearly checkup, your doctor would be charging on average $60, but if you go to a walk-in clinic, gov gets charged $160… why can’t the government accept these NP clinics for less?

[@Shyamal-z6p]

Where do you get 160 figure? Doctors earn like 75 dollars for an annual comprehensive visit …and 37 dollars for a multiple issue visit

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

1. The NP clinics obviously don't want to be paid less 2. There are no more OHIP funded annual physicals 3. IMO NPs like this are getting more complicated patients who are disgusted with OHIP funded primary care providers

[@abdelhadikhadroune7273]

I have worked with NP they are very thorough and they know what they are doing. However they should bill the government not the password.

[@lightbringer851]

Since 1998 Nurse Practitioners were already able to bill medicare 85% of Physicians fee...... In the United States!!! 😅

[@jptrainor]

We're slow. Medical practice is calcified here.

[@koda3967]

3:47 The government move quickly enough on so called #IllegalPotshops, but they can't move on #IllegalMedicalClinics? 🤨😤

[@singlemom1089]

It's about time! I'd rather visit this clinic and pay 75$ than wait for several months before being seen by a doctor and be prescribed with the same meds and labs.

[@soniakorchynski]

The gov wants it both ways, The nurses want to be paid by OHIP, but are unwelcome. The patients want/ need the primary care, but there are no Dr's. Its a lose, lose. Maybe the bureaucrats win, they get good pensions, but health care and Canadians lose.

[@aeskaters1592]

No wonder doctor are leaving…twice the education and twice the debt, yet less than half the pay. A doctor gets 150$/year for each patient they look after. Look after 1000 patients pays 150K out of which you pay rent, staff, malpractice insurance and yourself. From a doctor who has had enough. 30% cuts to what the government paid us 10 years ago. Now you know why….😢😢😢😢I quit 2 weeks ago after 30 years. Can’t pay the bills.

[@bridgetwatson6268]

NPs & GPs want the same things, higher recruitment/retention which means higher billing fees for GPs. And Yes opening up access to allow NPs OHIP Billing capabilities, essentially "activate their Billing Numbers". Of Course FEE FOR SERVICE IS NOT IDEAL. However, when we have patients without primary care, sitting for on average 8 hrs in our Emergency Rooms for prescription repeats or referrals, etc. SHAME ON YOU HEALTH CANADA, to not have fixed this sooner for all of those people without care, and the NPs that have been here working asking, for you to activate their Billing Numbers (Especially during The Covid Pandemic) and yet still we wait... I am NP, I feel very strongly that we have been forced into a fee for service working environment, we have to have a way to be paid, there are only so many Publicly funded Clinics (25 to date). The one easy step is activate NPs OHIP Billing Number, increase GPs OHIP Billing Fees. We are Nurses, we Care!

[@investined]

Let me guse they ate still getying tax payer money. No private clinic should get a dime from taxpayer money.

[@k.c.sunshine1934]

IMO, the government of canada has an obligation to act (probably with sustainable Health Care improvements) because of the Canada Health Act which includes the following: "The Act sets out the primary objective of Canadian health care policy, which is "to protect, promote and restore the physical and mental well-being of residents of Canada and to facilitate reasonable access to health services *without* *financial* *or* *other* *barriers.""*

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

Canada is failing to offer these services to patients in the public health system.

[@k.c.sunshine1934]

@@MedicalAutonomyProject very true... In fact the courts have spoken and indicated that canadian people have the right to seek out Health Care elsewhere. Someone with financial and legal backing needs to bring the case to the courts in order to get some justice.

[@carlyar5281]

The Canada Health Act also lays out that is the PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENTS are responsible for the provision of healthcare. It is the PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENTS that are failing Canadians. This particular issue in Ontario belong to Doug Ford.

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

@@carlyar5281Healthcare is crap all across Canada and it sucked in Ontario before Doug Ford

[@hiamal-bayati4730]

Shame on such system Not sure why physcian accept such miserable condition. It it intentional in not hiring Doctors, not because no Doctors. Doctors shortage?. Doctors working taxi driver .. cashers.. Where us physcian rights?. We are doctors waiting .. they ate not hiring us.

[@teresawilson3893]

What the fk do we pay taxes for anymore? I’m so sick of this bs!

[@mgtowworldwideself-improve3469]

Service debt politicians run up for nothing

[@jgrizwald]

Wow, thats scary. Take the most complex part of medicine with PCP and turn it into a moneygrab.

[@dianepaulin5324]

I go to a nurse practioner clinic and have never been charged. It goes through my OHIP only.

[@wensisheng]

Nurse Practitioner in NP-lead clinic only got paid 1/3 of GP's salary by doing pretty much same work as GP and take same responsibility as GP. Government only pays NP on salary basis which is very minimal considering the amount of work and responsibility they take. That's why no NP really wants to work in NP clinic anymore.

[@7681411]

I am a family doctor practicing in Ontario and this is how much the government pays family doctors compared to how much this clinic is charging people: Pay per use: - Family doctor: $37.95 - This private nurse practitioner clinic: $75 Family practice (per patient per year) - Family doctor: $200 (on average. The pay varies based on gender and age) - This private nurse practitioner clinic: $450 "All access" Family doctor: still the $200 as above on average with some premiums for house calls (about $30 per house call for rostered patients) This private nurse practitioner clinic: $1200. Family doctors are responsible for paying rental, their staff and all bills. This is why family doctors are leaving the profession for hospital based work. It takes at least 10 years of post secondary education to become a family doctor. Family medicine is becoming unsustainable.

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

They are being underpaid! The solution is to raise their pay, not force NPs to be underpaid too.

[@NS-pn4sk]

​@@MedicalAutonomyProject if Family docs are paid appropriately, then more medical students would become family docs and there wouldn't be a need for nurse practitioners.

[@Welcometothesunnyside1989]

Oh wow that’s low I see y ur all leaving u deserve the higher pay ur literally saving lives and helping ppl u should be making the most money I’m sorry ur paid so little

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

@@NS-pn4sk The government throttles both the number of residency positions and funding. The government could double the number of residency programs, send out invitations Friday night to people, some Canadian born and other international graduates, who have already passed the board exams, and have every spot filled Monday morning.

[@NS-pn4sk]

@@MedicalAutonomyProject that's because family medicine doctors are expensive for the system as a whole and nurse practitioners are cheaper. Family medicine physicians are more expensive because they are the most highly trained. They also happen to be completely overworked and expected to see a ludicrous number of patients in a very short time. The system would rather have nurse practitioners see the patients and get "supervision" from a physician, rather than fairly pay doctors. This allows the system to care for significantly more patients at a cheaper price. Nurse practitioners exist because they are filling a gap in the system for a cheaper price and passing the liability to the physician, who is often unaware of this. If the nurse practitioner is conscientious, thorough, and aware of their own limitations, then this generally works out OK. If the nurse practitioner is arrogant and thinks that they're as capable as a physician, this can be disastrous.

[@phoreal22]

Sounds like we need to allow NP's to bill OHIP, they've been doing a phinominal job. The association also needs to do a little better with marketing their member services

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

They don't want to bill OHIP, they would get paid less

[@lizanderson1669]

We should be stripping the rich from OHIP and let then go to Private clinics

[@johnyliltoe]

The problem there is the clinics that then service them are going to take away doctors from the public service. Medical practitioners in private clinics are practitioners that could take the burden off public providers.

[@carlyar5281]

@@johnyliltoe finally the sane comment!

[@barcelonachair6487]

It is the rich who funds it. Do you realise how much worse our healthcare would be without their tax dollars? They are not going to pay their healthcare tax burden and pay private. I wouldn't.

[@hailmademodeG]

It's pretty clear that this goes against the canada health act. If this is allowed, what stops a physician from foregoing their OHIP billing, and opening up shop across this posh yorkville clinic and charging the patients double? They would collect patients right away given their more advanced experience. All physicians would do this, and the Canada Health Act is the only thing preventing such chaos. Where is the enforcement? Let these NP clinics open to relieve the burden, but prevent them over-charging patients for publicly funded care.

[@nikolaimanek582]

What is the issue with this? People that want faster service pay for it? It's a great service I think. Of course the NPs should be able to charge insurance as well. In the USA these clinics are everywhere.

[@javajoysnursingjourney4587]

Awesome congratulations NPs!! Great idea! If the ministry isn't going to pay you, patients will recognize u for what you can do and deserve!! Awesome!!

[@thedigitalquarry9466]

Its happening all over the place it seems. I wait till its critical and go to the hospital now. I refuse to pay to get only 2 ventolin puffers at a cost of 3 x the price if you count in the visit, plus only 2 units .

[@CertifiedYoutubeBanger]

Unbelievable

[@joept333]

Great Brian Mulroney introduced the gst to canada but yet we're getting worsening healthcare. Its still under the provincial government oversight but funding still comes from a chunk from federal funding

[@meowmiaumiauw]

The training to become an NP doesn't include comprehensive courses on anatomy, pharmacology, immunology, internal medicine, or most other issues one would expect someone diagnosing an illness to understand. Their job is to administer treatments someone else determines are needed, so that's what their training revolves around. Would you see a medical interpreter or someone who designs MRI machines instead of a family doctor just because they're well-educated about things that pertain to medicine, or do you want to see someone whose education explicitly revolves around correctly identifying illnesses?

[@lightbringer851]

"Patients reassigned to NPs experienced similar outcomes and incurred less utilization at comparable cost relative to MD patients. NPs may offer a cost-effective approach to addressing anticipated shortages of primary care physicians". Liu, C. F., Hebert, P. L., Douglas, J. H., Neely, E. L., Sulc, C. A., Reddy, A., Sales, A. E., & Wong, E. S. (2020). Outcomes of primary care delivery by nurse practitioners: Research Data from US veteran affairs from the US govt.

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

You say that but an NP at this clinic was the only person in Ontario to diagnose me, including a specialist and expert in my condition.

[@MCevis]

I just scheduled an appointment at a NP clinic like this in America! I had no choice! I’ve just lost my third primary doctor. They all leave. 🤦🏾‍♀️

[@Dru-zy]

I fail to see the problem here. If people WANT to pay out of pocket for immediate care let them. Its their own choice. This will also "lighten " the load for other doctors and emergency wards.

[@dorothyp5]

Are you thinking of those who cannot afford the health care to which we thought we were entitled?

[@Dru-zy]

@dorothyp5 They still get it though through the current set up.

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

@@dorothyp5 The person paying for this NP service is already paying money toward OHIP, so I don't see what the problem is.

[@zzfreddy]

No thanks

[@nicksky4642]

Soon all doctor will work in private. Quebec it's all most like that.

[@shauncameron8390]

I don't blame them one bit. Government-run healthcare = mismanagement, inefficiency, etc.

[@Welcometothesunnyside1989]

Ok but shouldn’t drs be the ones diagnosing and prescribing meds not nurses

[@kirkboivin4357]

So you didn't want to pay them, and when they are paid like any other service you're outraged. But you still want them to work? Sounds like entitled wailing. Little wonder we lack medical professionals who could work anywhere in the world 😢

[@FrEdmundScott]

I just got dropped by my doctor because she lost her NP in her clinic and can’t replace. Seems they are gravitating to private practice.😢

[@rosieverma3983]

Dr. Gets $40 patients and nurse with less skill gets $75 they are great for in team . Doctors have extensive experience vs NP online learning . If the pay dr. same pay the recruitment is possible.

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

NPs are superior in my experience. They don't have the arrogance of MDs, actually listen. They're also not too good to do a physical exam. My NP diagnosed something every other doctor in Ontario missed, including the specialty surgeon here.

[@chihochoi]

Because people would rather pay then dying without a doctor.

[@MT-yp1uz]

At $70 The NPs are charging twice as much as what a family physician bills OHIP per visit 🤔

[@michelleabutler5259]

This is disgusting!

[@CCCeeCee]

MDs can also bill for primary care services by opting out of the provincial medical plan. Many women's health MDs, radiologists, and Dermatologists, for instance have opted out (or partially opted out) and charge patients. If you want you can pay for a private MRI and get a paid consult with an orthopedic surgeon in a fraction of the time you would get in to see the same surgeon through the public system. In BC the Medical Services Commission (made up of Dr's and Politicians) decides who can and cannot bill MSP. It's a completely random list of providers and services, of which NPs are not on. The publicly funded primary care system was established only with MDs in mind and hasn't adapted.

[@crissytunks1924]

I work at an NP clinic in ontario, we bill ohip, there are some privates clinics. Our health care is a mess and unfortunately if you don't have primary care you go where you have to .

[@drkarenbukharibukhari9931]

I like NHS

[@jo.p82]

Ridiculous. Legal.to chage people whonate our of privince or non canadian but Canada has free health care .. our taxes fo to them... maybe they should lose out on that.

[@esparda07]

Good. Rebellions are needed to combat complacency. Canada to Immigrants: "Come one and all, we have free healthcare!" Also Canada...

[@Rsoul461]

This is a good thing. Two-tier health care separates people who abuse the system away from those who need genuine health care in a respectable time frame.

[@thepassionfruitdiariessuzi6978]

This has been around for years. I became aware of this clinic years ago and was surprised that there is a two tier health system. This clinic is in an expensive part of the city, people will pay

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

I drive an hour to get to this clinic because I cannot get a competent OHIP funded family doctor.

[@aaronbenhaggai973]

I am a patient at the yonge and lawrence location and i love it. No could i find a family doctor but i found this place and have been satisfied

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

I love my NP too, don't bother with family doctors anymore.

[@carlyar5281]

@@MedicalAutonomyProject move back to the United States

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

@@carlyar5281 I have actually forbidden my husband from buying a house here because I know it would trap us here another 10 or 15 years. It is in the plans. We will be bringing our three future tax payers with us. We have frozen embryos I will not even donate in this country because the healthcare is so bad, I don't want them being abused

[@CesarAnton]

It's important to have both, public (free) health care and a few private (paid) alternatives. This has worked great in Mexico.

[@jptrainor]

Works great in Europe, and Australia too. Europe has better public healthcare than Canada without the sacred cow freak out over private versus public.

[@carlyar5281]

@@jptrainor those are still government funded

[@jptrainor]

@@carlyar5281 You mean the public healthcare in both examples I gave? If so, then yes, if course, hence "public"

[@patthemens]

I'd pay more. I have no doctor or access to Healthcare. I would welcome this service in NB. People say Healthcare is free. It isn't. People say health care is accessible. It isn't. Peoples health mentally and physically is suffering. Old skool socialists should step aside and realize our government and system has failed the most of us and its time for a private system that can service the rest of us please

[@CoolsBreeze]

These places should be sued. And it would be a good case to follow.

[@jptrainor]

For what? They are operating within the law and providing a service that is in demand.

[@CoolsBreeze]

@@jptrainor They are also in a very grey zone of the Canada Health Act. Which is why I'm saying it would be a good case to follow if this goes to court.

[@jptrainor]

@@CoolsBreeze yeah, could be grey. I personally don't think so, but that's just me. What's clearly worse, IMO, is for public health services to fail to provide care and then at the same time penalize professionals who step in privately to supply the unfulfilled need.

[@maxlemusa3520]

Start charging for ER, I'd rather pay $500 and get attended immediately than waiting 12hrs

[@dorothyp5]

How fortunate for you that you can afford $500. A large percentage of people cannot afford $500 for rent and still eat.

[@hiamal-bayati4730]

How public accept to put their health in nurse knowalge hands. Never what Doctors studied abd learned in what nurses have got it.

[@Kizzmansky]

We need more of those clinics. 75 bucks to skip the wait is awesome.

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

My friend was charged $600 by a plumber for him to look at a clogged sink! Maybe we should stop expecting good care at $26 a visit. You can't get a good haircut for $26

[@JessT-vg7ib]

Private=Better

[@carlyar5281]

Every study looking at outcomes between private healthcare (even if publicly funded) and public healthcare has demonstrated that the outcomes are the same or BETTER with public healthcare, and at a lower cost. Not only that, there are more adverse outcomes with private healthcare.

[@furiousstormrage927]

I love private healthcare, its fast and quick plus your treated so well.

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

I find everybody in the fee-for-service system have better attitudes, including the front desk staff. The staff of my fired OHIP family doctors act like you are ruining their day anytime you dare to contact them.