Karen Read murder trial continues testimony with Jennifer McCabe on stand

[@hankenson]

Permission to treat the witness as hostile.

[@paulhill9495]

Thank you!!! I've been saying that since I started watching. Not to mention,she's changed versions countless number of times. This broad is full of sh*t! Checkout her reaction when defense attorney brings up the family dog that they got rid of right after....

[@knowthispodcast9182]

Sustained

[@cdnkate9902]

Overruled

[@HaveNoFearRealityIsHere]

please restate the question

[@ecalose6785]

Absolutely. Shes a piece if work and a LIAR,

[@arielle4201]

The fact they went to the first responding officers house and completely left that meeting out! This is insane! Defense attorney is fire!

[@davidculhane4388]

Her demeanor is reprehensible. She is 100% hiding something.

[@smh8-n1e]

The judge saying “I’ll give it to him” after prosecutors objections is disturbing to me. I’ve never heard another judge respond this way. Her Choice of words, to me, seems as if the judge and prosecution are a team - working on the same page. Also, Constantly rushing the defense and complaining about his questions telling him to hurry, move it along or last question. I’ve never heard a judge behave this way. The judge also hasn’t said One word to Jen McCabe as she doesn’t answer questions properly as she is asked and is completely disrespectful. Other judges I have heard would have addressed the witness to set the stage.

[@judyisapunk7928]

I thought the exact same thing today. Bev saying I’ll give it to him was a major red flag and makes it seem like they are on a team together.

[@andreagomes1209]

The judge is friends with some of these people she shouldn’t be allowed on this case

[@izmac9146]

Meanwhile the prosecution can ask if it was snowing 38+ times and what people had to drink…. multiple questions that had NOTHING to do with anything. I have to put the prosecution on 1.50 speed. or how the door opened about abuse when it wasn’t the defense that opened it.

[@ForeverPositively]

Welllllllll Saidddddd!!! So agreeeeee the Judge is being Favoring with the state very DISTURBIBG!!!!!!

[@mitchalderman1776]

Administrator not a judge theres not one judge in America not one

[@hankenson]

I havent heard the judge say “over ruled” to the prosecution, only “I’ll let him have it” what the heck?

[@prisonersdilemma939]

Yes, sounds almost like she’s folding a poker hand rather than ruling on an objection. How unprofessional and biased.

[@daviddavis3389]

To me, the Judge is fair and objective and I certainly have not seen any biased at all!! She is definitely hiding some key information .. from what I have watched, that poor Cop is gonna get *Railroaded" police are there to serve and protect the public....in sorry he got caught up with is person ..

[@roxdarmurray6634]

She DOES NOT overrule the prosecution. 99% immediate sustained! Biased, unprofessional, ARROGANT! She didn’t allow A LOT in & her awful behavior towards the defense is a huge reason for a now hung jury. Her biased behavior toward the defense confused the jury, imo. The evidence was so BLATANT. Reasonable doubt at worst!!

[@Aqwtiny]

Yeah, these things can get pretty casual- but.. this ain’t the case to do it lol.

[@Kimmykimmy2002]

Defense never asks a question , not knowing the answer

[@silvioalgieri6218]

😊what a great defence lawyer. 👏👏👏👏👏💕💕💕This is Good for Mr O Keefe so as to discover the real truth.

[@truecrime98]

I agree the real truth will come after Karen is found not guilty

[@MyMomo17]

Lol​@@truecrime98😆😆😆

[@josephinedimercurio5012]

The real truth is Read did it the rest is a bunch of invented lies

[@MyMomo17]

The real truth is it's a hit and run DUI and everything her Defense is saying is manufactured by the Defense to try help her get away with it as all Defense attorneys will do. He has no evidence that what he is spinning is true. Justice for John.😥

[@marshapieroni6677]

​@@MyMomo17that's not true everything he's asking about is straight out of the reports

[@pradalove22]

Wow the fact that she needs to look back at records for every question lets you know what a liar she is! You can't get your lies straight! Wow!!!! I hope the jury notices that!

[@westbeach400]

I think it’s because he keeps trying to trick her and put worlds in her mouth. Like him saying she said accurate. She looked back and it wasn’t there 😳😫

[@lorisuhr7326]

Yes such a liar

[@aslansgirl9014]

Ok, her testimony on when she burst into the house and not remembering anything about Chloe, a 70 lb GSD is TOTALLY unbelievable to me. I have a 60 lb Belgian Malinois who hears EVERYTHING and will alert LOUDLY. No one would ever dare to barge into my house, let alone my bedroom, in the dark and expect NOT to be greeted by my dog. GSD’s are much the same as far as guarding their territory. I call BS on her story…all of her stories.

[@dawnmills6755]

The dog knows her so it's unlikely to bark at a frequent visitor to the home.

[@danalamb8398]

Keep the Faith Karen Reed...there's an incredible amount of evidence and statements in your favor that shows you are not responsible for Officer's O'Keefe passing.

[@izmac9146]

At minimum she’s responsible for knowing something and lying

[@TamiFowler1]

Well, by her mentioning the harassment over and over and over again, at least the jury knows who the Publix siding with.

[@jumpforjoy6]

Lol true

[@xygenzy]

This attorney has made me laugh out loud a couple times….him saying the prosecutor sauntered out of the room got me lol

[@tobydean7097]

What time did this happen? 😅

[@elliea520]

Defense lawyers are amazing and this judge needs to go to jail!

[@jeffreyedwards1174]

Her look to the jury, says everything.

[@izmac9146]

Her attitude and evasiveness says everything lol

[@Johnske1234]

Jen from the block is a liar

[@stevenprice6957]

Is she ? Evidence suggests she isn’t. Karen is the lying killer.

[@kaymusictaylor7214]

In a real court, no judge will allow anything but yes or no answers, unless the attorney asks the witness to expand or explain something.

[@maria04769]

It’s a disgrace!

[@momsdiva71]

Unfortunately, Judge Bev Cannone doesn't operate this trial like a real court. Both attorneys requested the trialto be held at a later date and she declined. Her bias is clearly evident and she doesn't care that the world is watching this train wreck.

[@dawls07]

3:14:44 The part where Jen McCabe says that they were trying to figure out “what happened, together”. Well if she heard Karen say three times I hit him three days earlier, she wouldn’t have to figure out what happened. And if Kerrie Robert said that Karen told her that John was dead, they wouldn’t have to figure out what happened together. Right???? 😳

[@Krystal_Kleer]

Yes, that's exactly right. I'm typing this after the hung jury outcome. Why they were hung is beyond me. It's so obvious what happened that night.

[@dawls07]

@@Krystal_Kleer I’m still baffled by the hung jury as well. Some of them must not know the definition of reasonable doubt. I think if they do go to trial again. They need to list every reasonable doubt issues one by one then say “that’s grounds for reasonable doubt”. Now that Proctor was released from duty, hopefully the CW will be smart and fold their cards. Also, Jen made that search at 2:27:40. Had to throw that in there. Officer Goode’s testimony on day 5 shows that she is full of it.

[@SadAmerica1434]

It’s chronological EXCEPT FOR THE CALLS THAT WERE DELETED!!!

[@truecrime98]

That is not standard procedure for allowing her to delete anything including her daughter as she was in on it too

[@janeferguson4455]

I KNOW that perjury is Rarely charged in the courts in America... but this woman is SO hateful and full of disdain that I hope that the FED's go after her for perjury.... the local prosecution won't... even thought she has made them look like idiots. Have you NOTICED that prosecution is not making ONE objection to how she is being questioned? THAT says a Trillion words in itself !

[@Brenda08]

People that arent hiding stuff dont act this hostile.

[@janeferguson4455]

Exactly ! ALL DAY LONG FOR two, now going into THREE dAYS.... SHE LOST HER credibility with the jury a LONG TIME ago !

[@ConnieGMK]

She bloody had a disturbing scene thrusted upon her and is being expected to recall every detail about phonecalls and times she looked out the window... i'd be less than pleased at the way someone was trying to say i was a liar also

[@billyc768]

I would be a little hostile too if I was being asked questions the way they were being asked.

[@EmberRN]

Ppl who are being spoken to in such an accusatory tone when they are innocent may become defensive.

[@JS-pe7uc]

​@@ConnieGMK google how slong to catch a liar lying.

[@lorisuhr7326]

Liar liar liar, so obvious, pretty sure the jury sees this too. So unbelievably infuriating

[@Ms2unique4u]

This is yet another example of how arrogant Jenn McCabe is…… Several times when Attorney Jackson is asking the JUDGE, “May I approach?”, Jenn McCabe, with ALL her arrogance answers, “Yes!”. 🤦🏾‍♀️ I could not believe that she had the nerve to think that Attorney Jackson would NEED to ask HER if he could approach! WOW!! 🙄 Timestamp( 1:26:40 )Listen!

[@immadforit]

This woman is absolutely insufferable. Ew.

[@beckiehickman1312]

Justice for John I think Karen is innocent . They are lying with an attitude. If John was such a good friend he would still be alive

[@CraigAvenMusic]

This lawyer is incredible.

[@icedcelery9548]

Why does Jen McCabe have to argue about every single question? Just answer yes or no my ģosh and why does she need to see the transcripts on every single question. Can she not remember the truth is it that hard ohhh waitttt it's cause she's lying so she's having trouble with the lies. 😅

[@MyMomo17]

You can't just answer yes or no can you recall all of your conversations from 2 years ago. attorneys always try to say you said something you didn't say. If you don't remember you're exact words you better check the source because they will lie to fit their narrative.

[@adamquinn3235]

@@MyMomo17Right, but how many times does he have to show her the transcript?? She’s directly disputing what she is on record having said 😂 She would rather perjur herself than be made to look like a fool. Bad look.

[@janeferguson4455]

Because she is LIAR, LIAR, Pants on FIRE !

[@MyMomo17]

@@adamquinn3235 If you believe a police officer takes down your words verbatim like a court transcriber you are wrong. Ever see the tiny notepad they use to take notes they paraphrase everything. They are human and get things wrong.

[@MyMomo17]

@@janeferguson4455 Super grown up thing to say. 😂

[@marshapieroni6677]

Right when he is getting to the point, the judge calls a sidebar. If she noticed that suv like that, she would have noticed a man standing there.

[@MEMELIFEBABY]

If I ever need an attorney, Alan Jackson is the man to call. Clear, lucid, concise, likable, everything you need to sway a jury.

[@dawnmills6755]

You forgot slick.

[@KristenNicole616]

Hes not boring with his questions like he's interesting to listen to some lawyers are just so monetoned

[@xygenzy]

Doubt you can afford him lol. I know I can’t😂

[@MEMELIFEBABY]

@@xygenzy I could keep Allen Jackson on retainer, if you know what that means.

[@Lh-wq5gc]

ITS OVERRULED NOT " I'LL LET HIM HAVE IT" SO DISGUSTING AND TACKY

[@cleew8762]

Agree

[@SadAmerica1434]

Mrs. McCabe assumes she runs the show….Imagine the amount of manipulation she dished out in Brian & Nicole’s house where everyone returned after John was dead. I’m nauseated!🤢

[@hugostiglitz5976]

The real conspiracy here is, why in the world do all these people have duck faces?

[@catloverd3671]

😂

@@catloverd3671 Jen McCabe is fed up with defense BS and lies and being wrongly accussed.

[@nicu_danciu]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Lendingyourlight]

She looks like a lying sociopath

[@ethanshusband8913]

inbreeding.

[@jeffreyedwards1174]

What I don't understand, that the investigation was done at the houses and was there any recording done in those.

[@Zen_Postman]

The detective in Canton is the homeowner’s brother, and the trooper who conducted the interviews is best friends with the homeowner’s nephew 😂😂

[@jordanhatch]

I’m with you and flabbergasted that all these conversations and not one cop was wearing a body camera that was turned on?

[@tobydean7097]

The home video surveillance disappeared?! 😮😮😮

[@paulphillips684]

When asked a question...did she say "you tell me"!? Wtf I've never heard that

[@lindasherman5885]

She had to get vicious harassment in 😮

[@Beverlydame]

So I thought the harassment stuff wasn’t supposed to be allowed? Also I’d be a crying mess if my friend was what I was actually fighting for, to find the truth. Definitely not defensive snarky and adding onto the yes or no answers. She’s trying to hard.

[@ginafederico5771]

This attorney is fabulous

[@emmdavid910]

If the adults have no respect, what would you expect from the kids! Gross family

[@Journey007a]

Jennifer McCabe looks like she got caught in a lie and then suddenly thought of a quick way to get out of her lie by going back to “we just lost a friend” 🙄

[@momsdiva71]

Exactly, the same way Karen Read was a "friend ",

[@tobydean7097]

They were not friends to JO or KR

[@tobydean7097]

With friends like these? Who needs enemies??? 😅😅😅

[@pamelamac2879]

Karen’s team and the facts have easily created reasonable doubt already. I believe in her innocence.

[@angiehayes7397]

I have only one word~Chloe~

[@pamelamac2879]

@@angiehayes7397 Hi, Angie. I thought that too at first but after the trial w/ pics, my theory is Chloe’s only role was after John was already knocked out. His arm injuries were called superficial scratches by the coroner. I think Chloe was pawing and mouthed his arm to arouse him. If she wanted to shred him, it would have been worse, and I can’t buy that she caused huge swollen black eyes and head trauma, which was trial testimony. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@angiehayes7397]

@@pamelamac2879 that's plausible 🙂

[@judithcooke1482]

NOT GUILTY!!!!! From 🇬🇧

[@beckiehickman1312]

She acts like she may be jealous of Karen with John.

[@janeferguson4455]

It has crossed my mind that that Jen McC may have had "the hots" for John and wanted to try to divide him and Karen !

[@karenpayne2583]

Or Brian.

[@philmorden3499]

Agree, she was obviously rejected by John and never went to help him, because she already knew he was dead when they dumped his body there ! Her whole actions was to point blame at Karen as they had planned !

[@tobydean7097]

They originally were going to blame the tow truck driver?! 😮😢😢

[@babs3652]

​@@philmorden3499Is your story from a crime fiction book?

[@Zen_Postman]

Do they all go to jail for lying under oath!? 😂

[@JoJo-vv9rs]

I've had to testify before and I can promise you I spilled all the beans because I was so afraid to go to jail but all of these trials have all these witnesses that lie under oath and I don't see anything happened whatever happened to perjury and whatever they need to start being held responsible because why wouldn't they lie nothing is going to happen

[@janeferguson4455]

That is EXTREMELY rare and the local prosecution sure doesn't want to indict their own witnesses for perjury BUT with the Fed's looking at this, Jen McC is such an obvious liar and so full of disdain and hatred that her whole testimony is a JOKE! I HOPE the Fed's go after her 1

[@andreagomes1209]

This judge is AWFUL She should be speaking up and telling her she hast to answer yes or no.

[@Zen_Postman]

Defense attorney is being respectful through it all, kudos to him 👏

Lying about what?

[@chrislanciani1165]

Omg why does the judge let her talk ro him like that?????

[@KrisCorby-iv8dg]

I wonder, did this witness take the short bus to court?!!! Its amazing, isn't it, what she "cannot recall!" I'm so happy this Ref Attorney, is NOT allowing this control freak, to run the show here in court!...She's a head case!...

[@maria04769]

She remembered everything yesterday when Lally questioned her. She’s such a liar!

[@aliveinheels4540]

Why was she calling him so much?

[@mariepalardy5172]

Judge Bev should’ve stepped in and told this one to answer the questions she’s just letting this go on and on and on

[@chrislim7615]

Something's very wrong,devious n,calculating abt :Jenn Macabe(she's protecting)some1or a group.....

[@atousavali5988]

She is an absolute liar. She was jalous of Karen Read. It seems she was supposed to lure John into the Albert's house to be attacked by someone.

[@tobydean7097]

It does seem like she was trying to get Karen away from John that night?! 😮

[@adamquinn3235]

The way she turns her emotions on and off reminds me of Wendi Adelson.

[@danicolew84]

Or amber heard

[@maria04769]

Why didn’t the interviews take place at the police station?

[@tobydean7097]

So unprofessional?!!! 😮

[@tobydean7097]

And they usually record interviews?! Especially a fallen officer?!!! 😢

[@jillyaus]

Why was she even texting John

[@zackboudreau1834]

She made it a lot worse for herself… after the 3rd mess up I would have said I plea the 5th and lawyer up.

[@Kimmykimmy2002]

That person coughing needs to go

[@Sherryann-w8p]

This back and forth is fascinating. She is clearly making sure that her words are accurately reported. I don’t blame her for that.

[@lisalopez8639]

That’s what happens when he’s trying to defend his innocent client

[@MyMomo17]

Or it's what happens when he's trying to spin a false defense too.

[@janeferguson4455]

Oh ! She THINKS she is EINSTEIN ! But her performance proves quite the opposite!

[@LatinaLatina1011]

@@MyMomo17he doesn’t spin anything . The judge won’t allow it.

[@MyMomo17]

@@LatinaLatina1011 The entire defence is a spin , it's a huge conspiracy theory sure the whole town every cop every witness and every firefighter are all in on a frame up 😂😂

[@SadAmerica1434]

How in the heck did she ( Jennifer) pass off that she was asking John , Here? Hello? When in fact she answered two calls @12:14 am & @12:17am WTH is going on!!??

[@BotchedInvestigation]

At 3:00:50 the "AUUGHH" is priceless! Why am I the only one commenting about this lol 😂?

[@zt5547]

This must be the most hated woman in America Nice job Alan for exposing her

[@marshapieroni6677]

No one can remember anything

[@texasproud8822]

Don’t forget they remember exactly what they told the trooper that was writing notes!!

[@Ofwaterandclay]

She’s not coming across like she thinks she is. She’s awful

[@tobydean7097]

“I’m a very chatty person”?!!! That’s an understatement?! 😂

[@chellebelle3538]

I could not convict based on the shady characters in this trial they have given me more than a reasonable doubt.

[@marshapieroni6677]

It would seem if she was watching the suv, she would have seen a PERSON outside the suv

[@motherformerlyknownascoope883]

Between the window and the truck. Smh

[@texasproud8822]

Dang I hate it when an open and honest person gets busted by the Feds 2 years after a car meeting outside of an officer’s house that she didn’t report!!!

[@ginapafitis1966]

Karen is running around freaking out and her so called friends are telling her to SHUT The HELL UP.. Sounds like they were bossing her around they were narsty to karen that night they make out they loved John..BS

[@debranagrocki4952]

Karen was hysterical and they were trying to give CPR and concentrate on trying to save his life That was their friend way before Karen met him Screaming and running around wasn’t helping

[@stevenprice6957]

Karen the killer you mean lol.

[@AngelaFW]

Hat tip to your great audio feed!

[@dawnmills6755]

He's got to be kidding that anybody could make out who is in that video.

[@chuckrafiki8649]

@@dawnmills6755 they can see it better than on here. i agree that on here its terible!

[@truecrime98]

Well she knows who’s in that video cuz there can only be 3 people it could’ve been. No one cares if you can hear it clearly

[@spiritualrabbitt3765]

For someone whose "friend" died....she seems pretty hostile.

[@Jmmw25]

Exactly

[@debranagrocki4952]

Hostile over the 2 years of harassment to her children and parents by Karen’s supporters

[@roxdarmurray6634]

Why’s Karen the only one hysterical that night??!🤔 I was in a “state of shock.” Rehearsed.

[@alyshaalberts5694]

Jenn, this wasn’t a difficult discussion when you had to get the timeline correct. Now it’s too painful to discuss??? I believe you Jenn! Lying and getting caught is painful!

[@saixiong7420]

The judge seems nicer today

[@janeferguson4455]

She is up there just writing away and letting the defense annihilate the LIAR on the stand !

[@tobydean7097]

Nicer???? 😂😂😂

[@vybeauthentiq]

When Jackson was showing her the footage from outside the bar he was deliberate in describing Karen as “petite” I believe he has info that Jen (the liar) was jealous of Karen. And I believe so too!

[@otisbuttress8576]

Damn if there is a second trial you are done.

[@Peppermint-o4r]

Is it possible to put a microphone on the attorneys’ lectern instead of on the jury box balustrade ?? Does anyone here happen to know the pool video camera operator or audio person?

[@user-bo1rj2xu2s]

I'm late to the game and don't know much about this case, but this attorney is who I want to defend me if I'm ever in trouble.

[@tobydean7097]

Me too!!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@tobydean7097]

I can’t believe they still bother with the swearing in at trials?! 🙄🙄🙄

[@andreagomes1209]

She is totally lying omg it’s sooo obvious and her attitude is not helping g her lol

[@paulrust5924]

Implications can be terrible.

[@icedcelery9548]

Oh my gosh I can't take it...... SHES SUCH A LIAR.... JENN YOU ARE LYING.

[@AngelaFW]

You spelled lying incorrectly 🫣

[@batchelerjr]

Karen will be ok hopefully. Unless they rule against her and look totally corrupt. People just move away these days from alcoholic areas like this for more peaceful environments. Bars on all corners

[@batchelerjr]

​@@AngelaFWit's phonetics! Come on!

[@hugostiglitz5976]

@@batchelerjror ignorance, but I understand how the weak minded have incredible imaginations

[@stevenprice6957]

Is she. Wake up

[@tobydean7097]

The Albert’s actually moved their Ford Edge in front of the flag pole before the plow driver came back for his second run on Fairwiew around 3 am and they still didn’t see the body? They tried to hide the body with the Ford?!

[@gingerwoo5589]

This woman is.....HARSH

[@elliea520]

Judge needs to go to jail! Absolutely bias

[@dsradventure2233]

She's hiding things, what all, I dont know. Obviously they have proved she has lied through this testimony. This case was doomed from the start when the police ruined the scene.

[@Random-gt7pm]

Whenever the question didnt follow her narrative she wanted to see her statement, true characteristics of a pathological liar and narccassist.

[@texasproud8822]

Dang somebody needs to train Trooper Proctor better because 1 have only listened to two witnesses and they both say Proctor’s notes are WRONG. But nothing is suspicious here.

[@anitafowler622]

Does the sister have voice mail

[@texasproud8822]

I love the way this witness pretends she can’t remember her grand jury testimony like no officer or friend showed it to her or gave her a copy recently in my opinion.

[@motherformerlyknownascoope883]

She even admitted that she went over it. It's harder to recall a lie than the truth

[@Jmmw25]

Wow she really wants people to believe she’s telling the truth! Then asks to see what she said last time. She can’t get every story straight. This is appalling. Then brings up her supposed harassment! Sorry John dying was so inconvenient for her. She was so nervous at one point she said proctor trooper. Instead of trooper proctor. Yikes

[@ConnieGMK]

Yikes at you... I hope you are never called for Jury service ever.

[@triciathedisha85]

Why is the court reporter holding that thing over her mouth?

[@hankenson]

She is repeating verbally the testimony, for the record, not typing

[@janeferguson4455]

Some court reporters work verbally rather than typing.

[@ashadecastro276]

It’s so obvious she’s hiding something

[@mpark8435]

She said she had a clear view of the vehicle 5-6 times. Then she noticed it was gone, but didn't notice a body on the lawn🤔🤦🏾‍♂️ She's lying

[@tobydean7097]

Everyone was looking outside?! And nobody saw anything? Lies?!!!!

[@tobydean7097]

And none of these witnesses were friends with JO!!!!

[@anitafowler622]

Why would she mislead unless they are involved. Just say it was only cracked, not broken like that. Let Proctor explain how it got completely broken. She is covering.

[@anitafowler622]

I do not understand how the Okeefe family can have anything to do with these people. I would be very suspicious that they were involved. Just to much inexplained.

[@stevenhardway7650]

This lady has so many lies she has to be shown before she can answer the question ask 😂.

[@lisalopez8639]

I know John looking down thanking Karen lawyers and turtle boy for bringing the truth to light

[@elliea520]

This will be the worst judge I’ve ever seen ever! So disrespectful and such a waste of justice! Every person with proctor and this judge should annul their verdict if they were found guilty

[@AngieLea]

You should have a look at the judge in YSL rico trial. He is absoloutely shocking. He sentenced a defence attorney to 20 days in jail. 😂

[@Beccaboo502]

@@AngieLeaI seen that trial also. His lawyer was a savage and took his coat off to get ready for it 😂 he ain’t no snitch

[@ginapafitis1966]

This Judge Should make her answer the Questions Not Sustain jacksons questions all the time

[@mikeokla01]

The Accused & her attorney will not be able to "Cover-up" her gilt.

[@roxdarmurray6634]

27:50 the only one arrogant enough to ignore this judge. She does this more than once.

[@Needtokknow]

She is struggling with times seeing KR car that’s because Jennifer McCabe saw KR hit JO. She wasn’t sure and didn’t follow up allowing him to die in the cold. She would never admit she saw the hit and didn’t help him.

[@lynettemacvicar1034]

Such an odd thing to do..to go into John o.home to look for him.whose idea was this? Karen would know if he was home?or had Karen left to get the women then came back?