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How a Non-Canonical Gospel Shaped Christmas

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Centre Place

Centre Place

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 60
@fastballflakes5385
@fastballflakes5385 19 күн бұрын
Another fine Hamercopia of Knowledge tonight. Thank you to everyone at Centre Place for everything you do.
@pebystroll
@pebystroll 18 күн бұрын
Hamerhead reporting in
@ameren110
@ameren110 19 күн бұрын
Great lecture! Merry Christmas!
@centre-place
@centre-place 19 күн бұрын
Thank you for supporting our content production!
@AnthonyArena-g7l
@AnthonyArena-g7l 13 күн бұрын
In both the minimal manger with only the Holy Family, and the more elaborate manger with the traditional full cast, you missed the white dove of peace in both sets, which is quite an important figure that's usually there, and I am surprised that you omitted mention of it both times. Sometimes it's on the roof, sometimes inside the manger, or sometimes it's attached with a little wire post so that it looks like it is flying above it, and sometimes it carries a communion wafer in it's beak. I have also seen many Nativity sets which include the litte drummer boy and either the drummer boy's goat or his dog companion. Some sets have two angels instead of one, and one or two more shepherds. I've seen some that, along with the ox and donkey, include a horse, and some with two more camels for the other two wise kings. There was also one set that I saw with a couple of chickens, and a mysterious little girl holding a goose. (I assume the designer of this set felt it would be nice to include a little girl counterpart to parallel with little drummer boy.) The more elaborate the set, the more figures you may see in the scene. There is a Fontinini set that has 16 figures, and if you look up the Italian set called the Ulrich-Bernardi, you can see there can be as many as 106 figures, including, even an elephant! (Two magi ride a camel and the third rides the elephant.) Nativity sets can be very interesting. It would be fun to know which set holds the record for including the most pieces.
@kiflelk
@kiflelk 19 күн бұрын
Thanks!
@centre-place
@centre-place 19 күн бұрын
Many thanks for your support!
@bard_of_dundee
@bard_of_dundee 19 күн бұрын
Thank you for the lecture, I always look forward to Tuesday evenings. Merry Christmas, John and Leandro!
@valmarsiglia
@valmarsiglia 10 күн бұрын
As the one guy asked in Life of Brian: "If it's not a personal question, are you a virgin?"
@ElkoJohn
@ElkoJohn 19 күн бұрын
Merry Xmas !!
@centre-place
@centre-place 18 күн бұрын
Thanks for the support and merry Christmas to you!
@carnidafoe
@carnidafoe 18 күн бұрын
We wish you a Non-canonical Christmas and a Happy New Year ❤
@danielmalinen6337
@danielmalinen6337 18 күн бұрын
I don't know if it's an interesting fact, but the Finnish Evangelical Lutheran Church's Christmas Gospel is mostly Luke alone, while the Matthew version gets less attention. However, there has been a recent debate about whether "kataluma" should be translated as "inn", "residence " or "upper room" and was the place a courtyard house with animal shelter.
@SepulvedaBoulevard
@SepulvedaBoulevard 19 күн бұрын
Wonderful! Would love a presentation on the Gospel of Nicodemus/Acts of Pilate, with its account of the harrowing of hell❤
@robertsirico3670
@robertsirico3670 16 күн бұрын
The entire book is preserved in the lamentations hymnography of Holy Friday matins of the Eastern Orthodox Church. I have included this in my doctoral research on pre-canonical literature and the Holy Tradition.
@TheNikean
@TheNikean 19 күн бұрын
15:10 Shepherd be like: "What's wrong with you, man? That's your son in there, right?" Joseph's like: "Yeah, well, actually..."
@centre-place
@centre-place 18 күн бұрын
@Kevin_Fiol
@Kevin_Fiol 19 күн бұрын
Was the Daniel episode added to the lectures playlist?
@HamerToronto
@HamerToronto 19 күн бұрын
Thanks, I think it hadn't been added, but it should be there now!
@VSP4591
@VSP4591 18 күн бұрын
Mulțumim!
@alangriffin8146
@alangriffin8146 18 күн бұрын
I love John so much. Thanks for another great lecture. Merry Christmas!
@jamesdewane1642
@jamesdewane1642 18 күн бұрын
Thanks, John. I love how you lay this all out so cogently! Here's my speculation for your consideration. The emphasis on the virginity of Mary has a spiritual interpretation about who or what Christ is. It is that which is born within each of us as an epiphany or revelation or awakening. Therefore, it has nothing to do with sex. The virgin birth in Mark takes place in chapter 13. "This is the beginning of the birth pangs." And it culminates with, "Then they shall see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power." In my opinion, Mark13 was meant to be read as a description of this awakening of the Christ within. It's "hidden" within escaralogical language, but there are detalis that do not fit with a physical and temporal end time, most notably, the warning not to believe those who tell you to "look here" or "look there." Also, "All this will take place before the present generation has passed away." This is either the hardest failed prediction ever, or the author is very aware of what he is doing and leaves this sign for the reader. "Pass away" here is a verb different from that used just before the transfiguration, where "some standing here will not taste death..." Again in my opinion, Mark's Little Apocalypse is an anti-apocalypse meant to help Paul's followers recover from Paul's failed predictions. Merry Chistmas!
@funnythat9956
@funnythat9956 18 күн бұрын
Caspar Melchior Balthasar; from a Bavarian perspective, I was told that the 3 young men came round to bless every house in the village around the beginning of the year; they wrote Christus mansionem benedicat (Christ may bless this house), written as CMB; since the feast of the 3 wise men (holy kings) is celebrated on the 6th January in Catholic tradition these young men often dressed up as the 3 wise men; this may have led to these names which alliterate with CMB. But I am not sure whether there are other explanations.
@N.Y.C.FreddyBling-z9u
@N.Y.C.FreddyBling-z9u 19 күн бұрын
Centre Place :: Mr. J. H. ~ THANK YOU so much! {CANADA) :: Nice to hear this~! :: (*Peace*) .,.
@Melrose51653
@Melrose51653 18 күн бұрын
Too many of the manger scenes include snow
@langreeves6419
@langreeves6419 18 күн бұрын
I think not enough of them have snow.
@billpalmer174
@billpalmer174 18 күн бұрын
There are Jewish stories with snow. And real snow. Not sure what eras they come from. One big one has a spy who gets caught because there is a lot of snow on the roof. But , yes, we change stuff around! The Catholic Church openly edited the " Bible" and the new testament books were chosen as any modern catholic would expect : with a bit of complications. We did add Daniel in the Lions Den!
@llma777mawia
@llma777mawia 17 күн бұрын
Only after watching this presentation, I realise that the recent Netflix movie "Mary" is based on the Gospel of James.
@Ambassador2theworld
@Ambassador2theworld 19 күн бұрын
What is the date of the livestream with Q&A? There is no date given. Thank you
@FireEverLiving
@FireEverLiving 19 күн бұрын
These live lectures+Q&A are always on Tuesdays at 7 PM Eastern time (CA/US), but they're not every single week. When there's one coming soon, you'll be able to see it scheduled in the channel's "live" tab; it looks like there won't be one next week.
@adelaperezdelviso1
@adelaperezdelviso1 16 күн бұрын
thank you dear Friend
@drgeorgek
@drgeorgek 14 күн бұрын
I find it weird that because a young girl was to start menstruating, the priests of the temple preferred to effectively give her away to an old man she didn’t know so as to avoid the temple become ritually unclean… and that same old man went off to work for 6 months in a different town, leaving her home alone
@funnythat9956
@funnythat9956 18 күн бұрын
Would the Herod mentioned be Herod the Great? Or one of the other Herods (Antipas, Agrippa)?
@Mark8v29
@Mark8v29 13 күн бұрын
I enjoy finding ambiguity in statements and especially in the text of the bible as it creates a variety of beliefs and variety is the spice of life, and I'm somewhat surprised that few people point out ambiguities in texts as present or a beneficial thing. I like that the four gospels do not reveal whether Joseph fathered children by other women before those he fathered with Mary, and there is plenty of significant (to the plot) precedent in the old testament for men fathering children by more than one women, including the story of Josephs namesake. I suppose the James author of the gospel of James saw this ambiguity and maybe attempted to eradicate it as some are want to do when they find ambiguity,
@RiggenbachDE
@RiggenbachDE 17 күн бұрын
Two comments: a) referring to minutes 2:21 and 3:48, How comes that you are referring to the bovine animal as a "cow"? As long as I can remember (living in Germany), I have always been told that this was an "ox", and as an adult, I have learnt an explanation that this is to depict Isaiah chapter 1 verse 3: "The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master' crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider." So, the whole picture underlines that the world does not understand the significance of what is happening, i.e the Son of God, the king of the universe is arriving on earth: There is not any space in the hostel, and also King Herod postpones his worship to a later day, and will actually never come. But those who do appreciate the extraordinary moment, are the foreigners (the Three Wise Men), the shepherds (who normally are not considered as the brightest candles in society), and the animals ox and donkey (whom the prophet Isaiah chooses as good examples to follow, other than the majority of the people). b) referring to minute 1:03:35, How comes that Mary swears she does not know whence she was pregnant in her sixth month? Did we not suppose that the author of Pseudo-James knew the gospel according to Luke, and would not want to contradict against that; and did we not read in Luke 1 verse 38, that the angel Gabriel had explained to Mary what was about to happen to her, and she agreed? Did this Annunciation not take place before Mary was already pregnant in her sixth month? Now when I think about this, it occurs to me that Luke writes Lk 1,26 "And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God..." I would have thought that this "sixth month" referred to the Jewish calendar, with the first month of the year being "Nisan", and the sixth month "Elul". But this causes another inconsistency, the month "Elul" extending from August to September, which is too late for a birth on December 25th.
@AnthonyArena-g7l
@AnthonyArena-g7l 13 күн бұрын
Also, in the Christmas Carol "The Little Drummer Boy" the lyric goes "Mary nodded, pa-rum-pa-pum-pum, the ox and lamb kept time, pa-rum-pa-pum-pum." In some Nativity sets there is both a cow and an ox figure. The cow will typically be painted light brown and the ox will be painted gray, to differentiate between them.
@marymagnuson5191
@marymagnuson5191 19 күн бұрын
The story in the Infancy gospel of James is not in the Bible but mentions a cave.
@firmlyplantedcj9962
@firmlyplantedcj9962 18 күн бұрын
I recently moved to Western Mexico, I was surprised to see that one of the wise men in the city Nativity had an elephant with him. I probably just need to study geography better...
@frankburklin1116
@frankburklin1116 17 күн бұрын
Joseph is like most new fathers ,another mouth to feed. Not sure if Jesus was older or younger than his siblings/ sibling.
@timothyrogers1964
@timothyrogers1964 18 күн бұрын
I find it odd that a sign is something everyone can “see”. Being a pregnant virgin is nothing you can see, it can’t be a sign as she would look like any other pregnant gal.
@nathanlowry3764
@nathanlowry3764 18 күн бұрын
Sounds like the Shakers!
@carefullychristian8657
@carefullychristian8657 17 күн бұрын
Whay i find lucking is that always the gospels can be linked up with what the law,psalms and prophets said. Everything else doesnt count
@adamchapman6530
@adamchapman6530 18 күн бұрын
There's another reason why it couldn't be written by James and couldn't be historical. If Joseph had been around the age of 70 at the time Jesus was born, then James would have been about 50 or 40. Then, he would have been over a hundred when executed by the high priest in the sixties. That doesn't make any sense.
@TheCiphernet
@TheCiphernet 16 күн бұрын
Myths, stories and made up narratives mainly.
@TheZinmo
@TheZinmo 7 күн бұрын
Not a cow. An ox. Always an ox.
@kaloarepo288
@kaloarepo288 18 күн бұрын
The Muslims have a different perspective and think it happened under a palm tree and things like that - they believe that Jesus had a virgin birth as well. Interesting to find out what their sources were! The flight into Egypt narrative also gave rise to a host of legends. Some scholars believe that the 3 wise men were based on an actual embassy to Rome from one of the Indo Parthian kingdoms who were Zoroastrians whose priests were called magi and excelled in astronomy/astrology. The name of the king of this Indo Parthian realm is rather reminiscent of the names of the 3 wise men in tradition-Baltasar, Casper and Melchior - all 3 and variants thereof have become fairly common names in Europe -well we have Casper the friendly ghost don't we !Baltsasar is probably based on "belshazzar" in the Daniel story and "melchior" would be related etymologically to the word for "king."
@mariakarayan9997
@mariakarayan9997 18 күн бұрын
Hi and thanks. I have always wondered why Christians celebrate the birth of iesous because he never celebrated his birthday. Xristos was not the only virgin birth. This reveals angels are involved in the conception. Gabriel overshadows Mary and conducts ivf. Xristos is son of the god of heaven. Xristos prays to our father in heaven. As a man he is under the god of earth/ground/soil and the ruler of this world/planet earth demands souls and blood sacrifices. I don't believe xristos is the creator/first cause but a firstborn son of elohim. The gods over air; water, earth and fire control humans. The word ouranos means heaven and skies. The fact that demons spoke to xristos to tempt him suggests he is God being tempted? This reveals he had no power over the rulers on earth who are men. If god had to die to buy back persons for eternal life a millennial reign of the god of air/heaven/etheric realms/space. We are created in the image of the elohim. El emental gods created elemental beings humans in their image and likeness. God the father is etheric/spirit omnipresent and infinite. Father has no image, he dwells in unapproachable light. We are not made in the image of the word as logos is speech, sound/ voice/ communication, there is no image. We are not made with the image of a holy spirit as holy spirit can be either the breath of the original cause/father or a holy spirit being a goddess Sophia. We cannot be made in the image of father, son and holy spirit/breath as there is no image. The kingdom/age of aquarius is the rulership of the god of heaven/skies after the age of pisces. The sun moon and stars/planets/gods own a planet. The elohim created us in their image and xristos is a son of the goddess sophia/wisdom.
@raycrossley5398
@raycrossley5398 16 күн бұрын
I know that before Abraham knew God . The ancestors of the hebrews the Samarians had hundreds of gods . Abram had about a hundred idol clay gods. Then God spoke to Abram from them on he knwew God he become Abraham father of nations .
@aaronbaca
@aaronbaca 17 күн бұрын
Jesus is the son of God. Jesus is not God.
@Okaydokie001
@Okaydokie001 17 күн бұрын
Jesus is God
@aaronbaca
@aaronbaca 17 күн бұрын
@Okaydokie001 good explanation. Enough said. Please don't elaborate 🙏
@EvilXtianity
@EvilXtianity 14 күн бұрын
@@Okaydokie001 Jesus cannot be God: "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him." (Rev 1:1) "I have not yet gone back up to my father and your father, my god and your god." (John 20:11) "This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God..." (John 17:3, while praying to God) "God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind." (Numbers 23:19) "For I am God and not a man." (Hosea 11:9)
@EvilXtianity
@EvilXtianity 14 күн бұрын
@@Okaydokie001 The Bible makes it clear that a human descendant of David, not God, was the father of Jesus. The terms, "seed" (σπερμα = sperm), "flesh", "root", "fruit of his loins", and "offspring" means that Jesus was the biological son of Joseph. "This is the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David." (Matthew 1:1) "They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?” (John 6:42) "Therefore being a prophet [David], and knowing that God had sworn an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne." (Acts 2:30) "For Jesus took not the nature of angels, but the seed of Abraham." (Hebrews 2:16) "Of David's seed hath God, according to his promise, raised unto Israel a savior, Jesus." (Acts 13:23) "Concerning his son Jesus Christ, who was made of the seed of David according to the flesh." (Romans 1:3) "Remember that Jesus Christ is the seed of David." (2 Timothy 2:8) "I, Jesus have sent my angel to testify unto you these things in the churches; I am the root (progeny) and the offspring of David." (Revelation 22:16) “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote; Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.” (John 1:45) "When Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, thou son of David, have mercy on us." (Matthew 9:27)
@ddennison001
@ddennison001 19 күн бұрын
Thanks!
@centre-place
@centre-place 19 күн бұрын
Thank you for your generous support!
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