The Gnostic Jesus

[@centre-place]

We will address your questions in our upcoming podcast "Let There Be Answers!" Please leave your questions below 🤩 kzbin.info/www/bejne/nanGgHZugtqFa5o

[@ALavin-en1kr]

It is not so much a question as why Christianity, which was revolutionary then, and is at any time, had to be filtered by the Church. The Church likely had to do it as Christianity deals with consciousness; Christ Consciousness. Even today consciousness is referred to as ‘the hard problem’ by philosophers. What the Church had to convey had to be done symbolically in the ceremony of the Mass. The two things to be conveyed by Christ Consciousness were: Transubstantiation and Transfiguration. At any time, even at the cusp of a quantum age and with consciousness being ‘the hard problem’ these are difficult topics to convey, except symbolically. So it is symbolized in the Mass where ‘bread’ likely symbolizing the body and ‘wine’ likely symbolizing the blood are transformed and transfigured into ‘the body and blood of Christ’ which is likely both Transubstantiation and Transfiguration and deals with consciousness. Not consciousness itself, which if fundamental does not need transformation but human consciousness does. Christians see Christ as the one and only embodiment of Christ Consciousness; although in the East there are Avatars who have had, and have, a similar state of consciousness. There is plenty said about physical or elemental evolution and maybe a little about psychic evolution; but much less about the evolution of human consciousness; likely as what that means, or would mean, is not easy to comprehend; especially as consciousness itself is not comprehended; hence its designation as ‘the hard problem.’ The implications of this, as we are still material-age bound; although we are now in an automatic age, having left the material age behind with splitting the atom, and are moving towards a quantum age at some future time. Will Christianity still be relevant then? If it has to do with consciousness it will be, as we cannot think of an age when consciousness will not be relevant. In its absence there may be something but it would have no meaning without consciousness. Little wonder it is ‘the hard problem’ for philosophers.

[@JamesBarry-j7m]

It's interesting because he is a composite of several different belief structures he has been molded into something.

[@JamesBarry-j7m]

​@@ALavin-en1krit's very interesting how Christ is a composite of so many different belief structures and that Christianity then fine tuned his outline

[@ALavin-en1kr]

@@JamesBarry-j7m True. Christ consciousness; Krishna consciousness. Consciousness is universal. As I mentioned before it is ‘the hard problem’ for atheistic philosophy.

[@ALavin-en1kr]

@@JamesBarry-j7m Post next to what I am responding to. Christ consciousness or awareness of consciousness not just in the body and environment but in the whole universe and is not a composite. Cosmic Consciousness or Christ Consciousness is; it is not a composite of anything as nothing exists outside it.

[@ZoneGhostGU]

I love John's style of delivery and abundance of knowledge. Many thanks to the Centre Place team for another great lecture!

[@brotherjongrey9375]

Lol, started reading this thinking you were referring to John the biblical author.

[@mariom6982]

It's so much better without live audience which always use to interrupt the lecture instead of waiting till the end

[@garymensurati1631]

Agree 💯👍

[@austinhertell5634]

Yes

[@hamnchee]

Seriously, Covid was the best thing to happen to this channel, as insensitive as that may be to say.

[@mikecook8667]

I couldn’t agree more. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[@dantallman5345]

For sure better now. I liked hearing the questions, some of them were very good. However, sound level was too variable and taking questions mid lecture disrupted the flow.

[@garymensurati1631]

Thank you John and Centre Place. As always, excellent content and delivery. Appreciate your time and efforts !

[@fastballflakes5385]

Another wonderful Hamercopia of Knowledge tonight. Can't wait for the Q and A stream next week. See you then, Hamerheads!

[@bard_of_dundee]

I love these videos too! Proud Hamerhead here 🙋‍♂️

[@hamnchee]

Hamerhead! Love it. Put it on some merch, I'll buy it!

[@centre-place]

@@hamnchee oh that's an idea

[@bard_of_dundee]

@@centre-place I'd buy it too!

[@Merlinkhoo1959]

Thanks

[@centre-place]

Thank you for your support!

[@VSP4591]

Mulțumim!

[@centre-place]

Thanks for supporting our lectures

[@Incredabad1337]

Would love to see a lecture on Emanuel Swedenborg. As always this was excellent 👌

[@pebystroll]

Thank you so much for the community you've helped build. I haven't missed a video in months 🎉

[@paulastrange3343]

Missed it live but always catch up eventually.

[@bgp001]

Would love to hear a lecture comparing and contrasting the Christian, Muslim and Gnostic versions of Jesus.

[@Flapperjaw]

Top shelf presentation....thank you

[@NealBones]

Fantastic stuff as always my friend 😁 cant wait for the new series with you and Leandro

[@paperback10]

I look forward to Hamertime.

[@austinhertell5634]

Hamer the homie !

[@justmoritz]

@centre-place, I wish you had a playlist or database that can be sorted by date of lecture and topic. It's hard to find on KZbin and the website.

[@joshuagrant3821]

In the questions you spoke about Joseph in the 'traditional' views and Mary being raised in the temple. From what source is that, if I wanted to read more? Thank you for the excellent lectures.

[@Facerip]

This content is like fine dining for me. Thanks!

[@venusjordan7440]

I would love to hear your thoughts on the Shroud of Turin given recent scientific findings.

[@achristfollowingturnbullma8237]

If you read scripture it tells us that Yeshua had a face cloth so the Turin doesn’t fit in with the Bible verse

[@Steve-u9k4p]

Superb as always. Thank you

[@superneko99]

I don't care if it rains or freezes, long as I got the gnostic Jesus

[@Kartoffelchen]

1. Those who wrote the gospels and who never had met Jesus, belittled his disciples, although he chose them. Why? 2. They made up a story and the disciples knew the truth. 3. Story: Bodily resurrection. Truth: Resurrection is a spiritual event (Luke: heaven is within you).

[@masada2828]

‘If the Christ be not risen, my faith is in vain & we are yet, in our sin’. Salvation revolves around a bodily resurrection.

[@Kartoffelchen]

@@masada2828 That is what they told you.

[@juliusmanjengwa6465]

Paul did not experience a bodily resurrection

[@Kartoffelchen]

@@juliusmanjengwa6465 Although he reduced the message of Jesus to bodily resurrection. However, he had never met Jesus.

[@tookie36]

I think marks gospel (and all the early writings) show the early schisms in the church. Mark, as a follower of Paul, is lessening the importance of the family lineage, as well as the disciples as a way to show “personal faith” is superior than the rest. It’s a bit polemical but it makes reading the gospels and letters fascinating

[@RadioFreeHammerhal]

From what I have seen it appears that the Gnostic gospels primarily focus on cosmology and the knowledge of that being the source of salvation and don't seem to say much at all in terms of moral teachings. Is that an accurate interpretation, or is that just what gets talked about most because that's where the divergence is?

[@Akshfkep]

Yes, you are correct. That's why they are not in the Bible.

[@tookie36]

Imo it’s both. The texts focus more on knowledge as the path to Christ but these texts do offer ethical teachings as well. But then we do focus more on the differences bc the church has been trying to shut down the gnostics for 2000 years lol

[@hamnchee]

Early Christians had a lot of hot sects.

[@NealBones]

😂👏

[@DivoGo]

Let’s hear it for hot Christian sects!!!! Yeah baybee!🤣

[@ramkitty]

Anger magic the aggression applies the affect

[@kengemmer]

In the Gospel of John, Jesus identifies with the light of pure conscious saying “I am the light of the world”. In saying 77 of the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus says he is the light over all and he is the All. This nondual not dualistic as is often claimed about the so called “Gnostics”

[@Kyleology]

21:10

[@Philip-bk2dm]

Perhaps Mark meant that Jesus was angry with the "demon" of leprosy, not the leper?

[@CandidZulu]

Isn't James Jesus' half brother?

[@jefrolievertinitz7836]

Jon I'm asking for behavior advice. I was invited to Amish church tomorrow.

[@jussikankinen9409]

Helping the poor is what modern christians hate

[@garymensurati1631]

Sometimes seems that way unfortunately.

[@hamnchee]

Very true. Many of them want to outsource their charity to government.

[@paperback10]

Big government small church!

[@dbarker7794]

O God help you. 😮​@@hamnchee

[@noorzanayasmin7806]

Where did you get this source? From my experience, Christian are the one who seems to want to help the vulnurable the most. According to research, people who are religious or Christian tend to give more away in donation or what not to poor than atheist

[@ElkoJohn]

Luke.4:5&6,,,(agrees with the Gnostics on who rules the world),,,THEN satan led Jesus up to a high place, showed him all the nations on earth, and said, ''I can give you all this power and glory because it has been given to me. If you worship me, I will give it all to you.''

[@kylemaher4811]

I wouldn't want to be associated with Jesus either after he was arrested in a park with a naked boy (Mark 14:51,52). claiming not to be a pirate/human trafficker. And I think Pontius might have gotten it right, and when I revisit these stories with the perspective of Jesus being guilty person, who comes across as a highly educated in philosophy, with knowledge of medicine/drugs, seeing Jesus as a con man healer who manipulated the poor, the lost, the prostitutes and the sick with knowledge, secrecy, drugs and antidotes, the stories and miracles make more sense to me as plausible. So my question would be, is there any evidence that supports Pontius and his case? Super rough question I know but I can't help but wonder

[@Kyleology]

50:00

[@konstantinNeo]

John your analisis is great and I like these videos a lot. However the complete lack of a "non dualistic" view, limits understanding severely. A proper non dualistic model will integrate a lot of what the gnostics describe. If there is a need I could provide you with the basic non dualistic model.

[@jussikankinen9409]

Who those asian soldiers in picture

[@longcastle4863]

The gnostics sound wonderfully full of themselves

[@maxhung69]

one of biggest ironies in western history is Paul's distortions of Jesus' teachings. without Paul, Jesus and his movement would have been a very minor sect of Judaism instead of the dominant religion of the western world

[@Bluesruse]

The irony is that we might have it backwards: Paul's teachings distorted into Jesus'.

[@Sungod77777]

West should be Pagan/Polytheist as it was before cult of christianity. All nations were Pagan/Polytheist worshipped many Gods, before creation of monotheism (false doctrine that teaches that there is only one god).

[@YeshuaTaughtTheTorah]

no pictures of God, please

[@garymensurati1631]

When did the commercials start. 1st time in a year they appear for me.

[@centre-place]

Unfortunately KZbin automatically adds tons of ad breaks as soon as the lecture ends. We go and remove most of them as soon as we can. We always leave 2 or 3 ad breaks per lecture because this is one of the main sources of income for the channel since we don't have a pay wall.

[@Eric777-r1h]

The disciples didn't understand because God didn't want them to understand 🙏

[@WayneBraack]

Well that seems like a bad plan

[@Eric777-r1h]

@@WayneBraackit happened the way it happened.

[@tookie36]

@@WayneBraackor it was a narrative device used by mark as a metaphor for how israel dropped the ball

[@elyknavillus777]

Comment

[@ate410]

WHY PEOPLE arue on the real picture of a man who is a character of a story/fiction....2000 years is very close past for archeology, the myth that he has no evidence of timing and place is bc he did not exist but created by the romans,, period

[@Joshua_Froschauer]

Creating Christ is a very compelling book/documentary

[@Bluesruse]

*Original.

[@gabrielgarza2294]

Burn a piece of toast; I am there

[@jefrolievertinitz7836]

I'll look later. I'm serious

[@jefrolievertinitz7836]

Ok I'll b unobtrusively graceful

[@ate410]

there was no man called jesus,but in case there was he was jist a rabi Jew, nothing more

[@tookie36]

Couldn’t he of been a Jew that was crucified and then his followers said they saw him again after his death?

[@gsr4535]

But as Bart Ehrman points out, if Jesus called himself "God" (in the flesh), why doesn't the earliest Gospel (Mark) mention this? How could Mark possibly not point this out? Suspicious.

[@tookie36]

Marks gospel is very “secret knowledge” oriented. Def comes off as you have to be initiated to be told the secrets. That being said it does not answer the question haha

[@Chad2baddd]

Christ is LORD

[@TheRataman1]

so wrong yeshua never was crucified read more

[@kaudjar]

Can you use punctuation please? Defining your sentence depends on it.

[@najamulghanikhan]

Anger in Christ's response was due to the misplaced healing request. God Almighty is the sole source of power and healing. Inspite of His teaching folks were approaching him for prayers request. This dependency on others than God Almighty what Christ was looking to break

[@sparrowthesissy2186]

Are you talking about the story where Jesus doesn't want to heal a little girl because of his prejudices against Gentiles?

[@denaisaacthiswasgreat.thum7598]

No a leper.​@@sparrowthesissy2186

[@tookie36]

I thought it was an allusion to the anger of God in the OT. Like much of Mark it has Jesus walking through the OT to show him as god in the flesh

[@Auset003]

​@@sparrowthesissy2186 Which story is this?

[@konstantinNeo]

John, stop beating around the bush. Non dualistic Jesus is what you must explore.

[@benokaston1440]

This river to the sea Palestine will be free professor is confused about life, truth and consequences.

[@JohnAllenRoyce]

No, disagree. Sounds like you're upside down though.

[@EdwardPalmer-u9r]

I love Gnostic Jesus because he is evil and sinister

[@tookie36]

How is he evil?

[@prodfresh8094]

Huhhhhh?