Home Rule, Violence & the Irish Question: The Prime time Debate

Claire Byrne hosts a Prime Time discussion with John Bruton, Kevin Myers, Michael McDowell and Éamon O Cuiv on the centenary of the Home Rule Bill becoming law in 1914. Broadcast: 16 September 2014.
For all the stories from 100 years ago, visit www.rte.ie/cent...
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[@1969JohnnyM]

If Bruton went back a 100 years he'd be in Westminster and a loyal subject of the Queen.

[@f.b508]

He would love that

[@henrymagennis6518]

Lackey he is.

[@jakenconor]

a bootlicker

[@michaelharlowe4406]

@@henrymagennis6518 qàaaaaaàààààaààaààaaààaàa

[@stephenstewart2280]

"If Bruton went back a 100 years he'd be in Westminster and a loyal subject of the Queen." Well, actually it was a King back in 1914, not a Queen, which shows how little you know about Irish history! But even so, most of Ireland at that time were loyal subjects to the Crown (73% of the RIC were Catholics), and separatists were only a very small fringe minority with no widespread support... what changed between then and 1918 was the British executions of the Easter Rising rebels, failure by HM Government to implement Home Rule because of Unionist threats of violence, and the attempted extension of conscription to Ireland. Had the Third Home Rule Act been expeditiously implemented upon Royal Assent being granted in 1914, with the first elections to take place sometime the following year, I have no doubt that Ireland would STILL be an integral part of the United Kingdom, with eventually a devo-max devolved settlement, to this very day. There would have been no Rising, no War of Independence, no Treaty, no Civil War, no permanent partition, and certainly no Troubles. John Redmond and the IPP said over and over again during debates on the Home Rule bill in 1912-14 that they were NOT for separation from Great Britain, they only wished for Irish self-government within the Union and Empire, and that they accepted Home Rule as "a final settlement"... they repeated this time and time again. When the Home Rule bill became law, Redmond responded to someone in the House of Commons shouting "God save Ireland" by replying in turn "God save England"... he was a decent and honourable man and a fine parliamentarian who, unlike Eamon O'Cuiv's grandfather, was not a reckless fanatic with a delusional view of his own country. So John Bruton is right that the 1916 Rising was an unnecessary act that did more harm than good, but he's wrong that Home Rule would have led to eventual Irish independence... the British would never have willingly given Ireland the same status as other Dominion states without a war (as happened), but had Home Rule been implemented immediately, there would never have been the appetite nor inclination nor support across Ireland for such a war... simply put, it would never have happened. Speaking as a unionist, it is my contention that the failure to implement Home Rule in Ireland is the singular tragedy of Irish 20th century history... and it is the wellspring from which all the bitterness and bloodshed has flowed from this past century.

[@dpj1]

Interesting debate, shame it wasn't longer!

[@An-Chliste]

Troll!! Or, are you a BOT????

[@johnnylackland3992]

Americans and Irish-Americans in particular need to see this video. Video muy bien hecho , mi amigo.

[@1969JohnnyM]

And see why Northern Irish nationalists felt betrayed by the South's political class who betrayed all the ideals of the Easter Proclamation for a tiny bit of power. If you know Irish history some of mental contortions and spin by some of the guys on this stage is amazing and talk about fairness, on stage is 3 of the most pro British anti Republican politicians that you can get whilst there's no room for one anti partition Republican and their views especially as more Irish people support unity than don't, but we get cowardly gutless types like this on stage. Its even funnier Myers is on stage an extreme right-wing guy with the most repugnant extremist views possible and whose views historically have change like the wind depending on whats financially best for Myers.

[@dannunakifuque7795]

​@@1969JohnnyMCuckery is all I hear.

[@oneman4412]

Listening to Micheal Mc Dowell is a breath of fresh air, one of the finest and diplomatic, political debaters we ever produced.

[@paddyt4043]

Is that supposed to be a joke?

[@Brendeenoful]

🤣

[@stpat7614]

2:30 Michael McDowell says Home Rule was no good because it didn't provide full independence. Yet the 1921 Anglo-Irish Treaty was basically the same thing; not complete freedom, but as Michael Collins put it, "The freedom to achieve freedom." Which begs the question, wasn't Home Rule also the freedom to achieve freedom?

[@jakenconor]

Home rule didn't offer anything like the economic freedoms that the Free State won. Home Rule tied Ireland completely to England's exchequer.

[@PaddyWardeBand]

Home rule given royal assent in 1914 and eventually enacted in 1920 was nowhere near independence. The dominion status achieved out of the Anglo-Irish treaty granted the free state it's own constitution, it's own army and it's own foreign relations. Sovereignty was granted to the free state before Fianna Fáil entered government in the Statute of Westminster in 1931. Issue of the treaty ports were claimed back by De Valera in 1938 and the last sole issue was the presence of the crown which was officially eradicated in 1949. Dominion status was the best deal Ireland ever could have hoped for during the peak of the empire. Would we have eventually broken away from the UK within a home rule Ireland? More than likely we would have gotten closer to it etc. but highly unlikely before the second world war which would mean some form of insurrection or civil war possibly would have occurred in that time.

[@stpat7614]

@@PaddyWardeBand The free state was nowhere near independence either. The violence of 1916-23 caused the many socialist and anti-clerical voices to be killed, flee, or be marginalised. The result was a state subservient to the Church and apathetic to Irish poverty. Institutions were built to lock up "incorrect" people, and contraception and divorce was banned. How is that freedom?

[@PaddyWardeBand]

@@stpat7614 I don't disagree with you with regards the church, although that's a another kettle of fish, my point was solely on freedom of sovereignty. By hook or by crook any form of devolution or sovereignty would have the involvement of the catholic church. The fears that Ulster protestants had of home rule and further independence was proven right with the rhetoric of "Rome rule". Even when the constitution of Ireland was being drafted in 1937 it was first sent to the Vatican for approval before it had being presented to the Dáil. What specific violent events from 1916-23 are you referring to? I'd feel both the free state and Northern Ireland did not treat minorities that did not fit the laws that those states adhered to all particularly well.

[@stpat7614]

@@PaddyWardeBand Rome Rule was not inevitable. Many of the early Irish nationalists were anti-clerical, but the wars that followed delivered Ireland into the hands of the DeValera luddites. A peaceful Home Rule handover could have avoided this. Also, had Home Rule included all 32 counties, the Protestant Northeast would have been a bulwark against Rome Rule.

[@tomgreene8480]

Was violence not threatened y Lloyd George?? Contracts carried out under duress?? Any barristers out there??

[@mattybt400]

+Tom Greene It was alleged that Lloyd George 'threatened' war. Of course he pointed out the obvious - if he did ever say the statement. If truce negotiations break down then a return to war would be 'bleedin obvious', would it not? Why would a threat of war put someone off so easily? A person who had fought in 1916 facing certain defeat. A 'threat is enough to make him quit? Also the Dail voted to pass the treaty and there was no threat on the TD's then. A very weak and pathetic, argument that belittles the men of 1916.

[@tomgreene8480]

Thanks for reply.

[@aor3220]

@@mattybt400 Lloyd george threatened war!. It is in the hisotrical records and is a fact. Your suggestion that it was merely an allegation is innacurate.

[@f.b508]

Bruton is a typical west brit

[@f.b508]

@MsMissy it’s someone that’s Irish. But is sides with British more than their own countrymen and women in the north of Ireland. Ireland is to the west of Britain. Hence west brit.😂

[@matty9460]

why aren't the historians on the panel?

[@ainemairead4542]

Because the Historians keep truthful. Ex. It waasnt 1916 that prevented Hone Rule. WW1

[@carloshannon8346]

How the Irish Free State treated returning Irish heroes from France and Flanders was a disgrace

[@f.b508]

Get a Sinn Fein TD on the panel. Home rule.

[@DMG118]

Look at how Irish Catholics were treated in the north between partition and the 1980s. That's how Britain would have continued to treat all the Irish people. These West Brits have a revisionist view of history.

[@paddyt4043]

A panal of shitehawks Maybe excluding emmon ó cuiv

[@professorplums722]

Ne Temere, genocide, state sponsored and endorsed by the Vatican. If Protestants were not murdered in the ROI their women had to bring up their children as Catholic if out of wedlock, men were forced out. Go to ant map and search for Irish demography from late 1800's to present. Check from 1921 to now how Protestants were wiped out.....and you go on about the North? Are you 14 per chance? Genocide was what took place. All hushed up like the fallen women.....Shane.

[@malsmith1618]

@@professorplums722 shouldn’t have been there

[@philiprufus4427]

Anyi idea how many Catholics are in the senior officer cadre of The British Army ? Miisinformed Chump !

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@@philiprufus4427There were probably a few by that point. If we mean Irish Catholics, not sure from what I understand Irish regiments had British officers.

[@ethanomcbride]

I appreciate what was said about what was said about avoiding violence. And the IR research we have today does show that non-violent independence movements are more effective But that doesn’t mean that Ireland should be assumed of its past. There was violence, and it probably wasn’t the perfect way to win independence, but it worked all the same. Just be glad that we got what we got & we know better now.

[@1969JohnnyM]

Independence for some, for others in the North there was discrimination and being treated as third class citizens with rampant gerrymandering and discrimination in everything from housing to jobs. As a youngster i can remember the old Mackie's factory a major employer on the Springfield Rd in Nationalist West Belfast as the workers left work, they 100% walked towards the Woodvale and Shankill areas, despite being in the biggest majority Nationalist area of Belfast it was a 100% Protestant workforce like all the major employers work like housing and political representation did not exist in the North East of Ireland for Nationalists. Ireland won its independence or more accurately you won your independence, others were deserted to live in a sectarian state or as Ulster Unionist leader and the North's first Prime Minister James Craig put it roughly "Northern Ireland is a Protestant Parliament for a Protestant People" and that they would only appoint people on a religious basis and they must be loyal to the crown. This is a Protestant Government for a Protestant People. Doesn't sound like winning independence if you were deserted to that fate.

[@f.b508]

@@1969JohnnyM exactly it was an orange state for an orange ppl. Protestant NOT Catholic. Ireland unfree shall never be at peace 💚🇮🇪✊

[@professorplums722]

Well at least in the North there was no Ne Temere.....genocide of Protestants. Perhaps all yous in the South and those complaining in the North shoukd reflect. Still state vscked btw to the 70's....all hushed up just like the fallen women....Ireland's BIG sectarian shame. Have a nice evening. From one of those you would seek to join the South. Much easier if Church and IRA kept out of it but that won't happen. A prayer for the fallen women and those victims of genocide.

[@philiprufus4427]

Yet Collins hlmself said the IRA would eventually lose as The RIC and The British Army were getting their act together. Men who had faced The Germans and Turks were hardly going to be outfought by the IRA. Michael Collins and Aurthur Griffiths delivered Eire. The Anti Treaty People would have delivered 50'000 British Troops,with aircraft and warships, of which there were no shortage of at the end of the war

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@@philiprufus4427 He is not necessarily correct but leaving that aside, the war in Europe was nothing like the war in Ireland and it was beginning to advantage the rebels inasmuch as the people liked them more. By this token even Bernard Law Montgomery wrote: "Personally, my whole attention was given to defeating the rebels but it never bothered me a bit how many houses were burnt. I think I regarded all civilians as 'Shinners' and I never had any dealings with any of them. My own view is that to win a war of this sort, you must be ruthless. Oliver Cromwell, or the Germans, would have settled it in a very short time. Nowadays public opinion precludes such methods, the nation would never allow it, and the politicians would lose their jobs if they sanctioned it. That being so, I consider that Lloyd George was right in what he did, if we had gone on we could probably have squashed the rebellion as a temporary measure, but it would have broken out again like an ulcer the moment we removed the troops. I think the rebels would probably [have] refused battles, and hidden their arms etc. until we had gone." Was he correct? I do not know.

[@Jacktheripper27]

We are not going anywhere.

[@westbrit4714]

My grandfather voted SF in 1918 because he thought if they got a strong showing the Brit's would move forward with home rule , this was a vote my grandmother never let him forget as bloodshed , partition and Irish poverty and falling population ( particularly of us Prods) resulted for the rest of their lives

[@longmemory1620]

my brother votes SF because he thinks supporting the IRA makes him a hard man

[@f.b508]

@@longmemory1620 Sinn Fein are not the IRA. Mabye at one time not long ago they were one and the same. But times have changed. The IRA are gone. Apart from the small minority of dissidents. That are not a threat to anyone really. Sinn Fein is a political party. Ur brother is silly if that’s what he thinks

[@professorplums722]

@@f.b508 Bollox. "Dissidents", " the Real", "unreal", what us this "Spartacus"? Why don't the "Real" IRA wipe out these other groups looking to continue the hatred and sectarianism? INLA for example - they could wipe them out.....or are they all one and the same under different avatars? "We haven't gone away you know" as the ink dried on the GFA.....sickening....

[@professorplums722]

West Brit....NeTemere was not our friend either, all State and Vatican sponsored. Perhaps Leo will offer an apology....that would solve everything.

[@conr16]

@@professorplums722 There are people in the nationalist/republican community here in the North who want paramilitaries to keep guns in case Loyalists/RUC b specials attacking areas like in the late 60s and 70s. Even the 70-80 year old "stickies" have a few wee spud guns about lol

[@sonnyirish3678]

To the eternal shame of the Irish people John Bruton was its leader.

[@timpatjoe]

John Bruton sits up at night crying that he wasn't born British

[@johnharrington1294]

+timpatjoe It must pain him to the point of total despair. He wants to change history to suit his narrative.

[@timpatjoe]

He has no problem taking a massive pension every year from the Irish people the pain in the hole

[@MrStoneyburke]

+timpatjoe Bruton should be stripped of Irish citizinship and deported in a horse box to England,WWI was supposedly fought for the freedom of small nations,yet the English after 700 hundred yrs of murdering taking land from and committing genocide during the famine yrs continued to oppress this small nation and its misfortunate people,that traitor Bruton and his ilk if they were Americans would be shot at dawn for high treason.

[@johnharrington1294]

+Stoney Burke Bravo, sir well said, so true

[@longmemory1620]

IRA supporters hate Bruton

[@aor3220]

'Home Rule was achieved in 1914 and there was no going back on it'' Except the British government introduced a massive amendment to the Home Rule Bill in 1915 and that was partition wherby Ulster would be excluded from Home Rule & simultaneously the Ulster unonist veto over the majority population of Ireland is introduced which was uttelry disastrous for the remanider of the 20th century. I think people like Bruton are so determined to believe whatever the hell they want to believe that they simply discard all evidence that contradicts the conclusion theyve already come to without doing much research.

[@oneman4412]

John Bruton makes a very good point which we haven’t always lived up to in this country. ‘’Violence is a last resort’’ we should never compare ourselves to the British, to make excuses for choosing violence.

[@malsmith1618]

It’s just as well he wasn’t on the wrong end of it then

[@patrickbrady447]

Did I really hear Mr Bruton say India got their independence whitout voilance

[@KR-us9pj]

Fascinating discussion. Highlights the complexities. I do believe 1916 was a mistake - and has made for a bumpy road since. I'm also not convinced that Ireland should have remained neutral & passive when all of Europe was on it knees. It is almost shameful considering what was at stake at that moment - and the letter of condolence for Hitlers death was unbelievable. As the saying goes.. Evil prospers when good men do nothing.

[@LOGOS422]

America didn't join WW2 until Japan attacked them. They didn't join when London was being bombed by the Luftwaffe.

[@KR-us9pj]

@@LOGOS422 Correct, but it was only a matter of time. The US was actively supporting the war effort with military supplies and food convoys. You cannot wait to be attacked personally, and ignore the suffering of others. Sometimes it is morally wrong to not take action against such evil. The new Republic got this badly wrong and many Irish people knew this by volunteering in their thousands - ironically in British Army uniforms. One thing often overlooked much to republican frustration, is that the British set in stone the forever right of all Irish people to live work and vote in the UK - no other country in the world has this arrangement with the UK - it highlights the deep but complex connection that exists beyond politics and governance. It is sad that we are the only nation which has an angry denial of these connections. 1916 created and stoked this culture. A UNITED Ireland was already on a peaceful path to devo-max or independance. But we chose civil war.

[@LOGOS422]

@@KR-us9pj The military supplies and food convoys weren't for free. America wanted to stay out of it for as long as possible. Barely 20 years after the Black and Tans and burning of Cork, partition etc..The mood in Ireland wasn't going to be to rush to war with Churchill, an imperialist. De Valera's actions were stupid, but he was a stubborn man.

[@pauliewalnuts100]

So you want Ireland to join a war they had no business in yet you say they can't fight for their own freedom. You're a massive hypocrite.

[@pauliewalnuts100]

@@KR-us9pj **A UNITED Ireland was already on a peaceful path to devo-max or independance. But we chose civil war.** Do you not know anything about the Home Rule crisis? The northern unionists set up an army just to oppose Home Rule which was a small form of devolution simply because they hated Catholics. What absolute bollocks are you on that you think an independent United Ireland was on the peaceful path.

[@DMG118]

Even by Fine Gael standards, Bruton is a hardline West Brit.

[@petercochrane6506]

I have to say I totally disagree with John Bruton on so many levels...

[@An-Chliste]

Peter Cochrane… Hear, Hear!!!! ☘️🇮🇪☘️🇮🇪

[@robertewing3114]

De Valera would not agree, he totally agreed with the British Empire leadership in September 1938, he accepted that Chamberlain abhorred war and risked his premiership in the event of Hitler invading Czechoslovakia that month. Generalisations are colourful and harmful, Dev himself spoke for war in a way Chamberlain would not have. Agus we don't have to accept the UK and USA bias against Chamberlain, we are not Czechoslovakia, we can say Munich was Canning in action, and we can indeed think for ourselves and agree with Roosevelts simple telegram to Chamberlain, Good man. We can also say that alleging others love violence is violent language, and that the idea that allegations of that nature in Southern Ireland have a statutory right of application irrespective of reply is war not peace. Evidently the Republic needs to examine why such allegations have profitably been made where they are unfounded, because religiously made political ideological type allegations must subordinate to hearing process, and it is a problem for the Irish people that those allegations are indeed too readily accepted. Mind sets are fueled by generalisations, and that allegation too cannot have statutory rights, misquotation must be corrected, character assasinations are evils, and indeed evils should not have statutory-like power.

[@thetruth7386]

Four ol fellas talking Politics. Very diverse.

[@pauliewalnuts100]

What the fuck does that matter? Who gives a shit about diversity?

[@charlespirate1]

Old white fellas

[@JOHNNIE1916]

Bruton has to be the most disgraceful in attitude Irish person ever. More British in thought than even Thatcher. Padraig Pearse et al, Dan Breen, Tom Barry and many of their ilk achieved in a few short years (through enormous personal and collective courage and sacrifice what gobshite Redmond and Bruton wouldn't have gotten in a thousand years. And what we shouldn't even have had to ask for, the rights and freedoms should have been and should be ours anyway. Bruton's and Redmondites' outlooks are flavoured by the privileged few who stood to loose heavily in a material sense when British domination of Ireland came to an end. Everything in their vocabulary and arsenal is thrown against those who fought for Ireland (and not for Britain's empire). The rising memorials should have been strictly for those who fought to light the flame of Irish Freedom by whatever means necessary as long as it was attained.

[@sirjimgreen2275]

For goodness sake Home Rule at that time was a stepping stone because of 1916 every half baked group of patriots has a right to use violence and I must say including Loyalists if a border pole doesn't go there way. Think about !

[@stallthedigger2599]

@@sirjimgreen2275 If not for the actions of the IRA we'd still be waiting for home rule. John Redmond was a fool he sent thousands of Irishmen to their deaths fighting in a war that had nothing to do with us.

[@An-Chliste]

JOHNNIE1916… Pardon my late arrival to this “party”…however, to you, Sir, I say HEAR, HEAR!!!!!! Go raibh maith agat!!!!!!!☘️🇮🇪☘️🇮🇪☘️🇮🇪☘️🇮🇪

[@DennisLove-qs3uj]

So many traitors gathered together.

[@Jamie-sv4hw]

Home Rule was the correct way for Ireland, a stepping stone towards independence in a proper, legitimate form.

[@lucastaylor2321]

At the time in 1914, wasn’t Home Rule nothing just tokenism? I believe it was said that a devolved Irish Parliament would have no more influence than that of a parish council....

[@conor5211]

Eamon O Cuiv is a legend. He should of got party leadership of Fianna Fail instead of Martin

[@RobertK1993]

No, Irish nationalist/Republican should apologise for who they are.

[@KimPhilby203]

Bacon , Egg , Chips , Beans and a Glass of Orange Juice

[@An-Chliste]

Robert Kelly… Pardon my late arrival to this “party”…but… AMEN!!! And, HEAR, HEAR!!! ☘️🇮🇪🤣🇮🇪☘️🇮🇪

[@weneverstop.4640]

Home rule was a joke thank god it never happened. At least the 1916 rebellion eventually got Irish freedom.

[@An-Chliste]

We never stop… Amen to THAT!!! Meaning, both to your comment and your Headline name!!!! Ha! ☘️🇮🇪☘️🇮🇪

[@willv2011]

vat and children's shoes

[@TT_1221]

+will vickers That sums up Bruton alright.

[@jackmurray3630]

Redmond didn’t win shit

[@jeffoliver2298]

Some facts. John Bruton descends from English invaders or settlers who arrived in Ireland, this is proven by the fact Bruton is an English name, it comes from Somerset in the west of England. Also, rather ironically Patrick Pearce, one of the leaders of the 1916 Uprising, his father was from Birmingham, England - so Patrick Pearce was half-English. Next, this business of 'Scottish independence': independence from what exactly? Britain was ruled by a Scottish Prime Minister from 2007-2010, before that the same guy was Chancellor for 10 years, and the Government from 1997-2010 was about one-third Scottish, Scotland makes up ten percent of the British population. So Scotland was over-represented in Westminster, per head of population, for all those years, and England, per head of population, was less represented. Britain is run FROM England, not BY England. Per-capita it is more run by Scotland. Maybe England should be asked if it wants to leave Britain. Lastly, people should remember that it was a Welshman who partitioned Ireland, not an Englishman (David Lloyd George) - he is described to this day as the only Prime Minister Britain has ever had who had English as a second language, he only ever spoke Welsh apart from in his official duties.

[@taintabird23]

The Fine Gael Party was formed when pro-Treaty, rump Home Ruler Nationalists and Southern Unionists merged. John Bruton comes from that Home Rule strain of the Fine Gael party.

[@f.b508]

I can’t wait till the English want to leave Britain. Then Scotland will get our freedom and Ireland will be reunited.💚🇮🇪🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@professorplums722]

@@f.b508 Thst does make sense. How can the English leave Britain? The only time Ireland and Scotland were United was via the kingdom of Dalruada which includes most of Ulster and a large swath of the West of Scotland and Isles. Ulster always fought with the other 3 provential Kings, always got on better with Scots Gaelic.. Still do today. Yes, geography is a factor but it goes back a long, long way. Google Dalriada land......

[@philiprufus4427]

Gets better,thirty percent of The RIC Auxies were Irish ,Australiens.New Zealanders,Canadians,Scots,Welsh could also be found in the ranks,there were even some English. They like to call them (erroneously) The Black and Tans, they were actually men recruited to replace police. The Auxies were all ex officers,therefore could NOT have a criminal record.

[@jonathanwhite5688]

yes and a scotsman caused the plantations james i, so lets face the facts it simply isn't "england"

[@Derryman63]

Bullshit England would never haven’t given up Ireland

[@eamonxofarrell]

John Bruton the Intellectual Wing of fine gael. I suppose compared to Enda Kenny he is. Remember the best day of his life, better than his marriage, birth of his children, welcoming charley windsor. Sad bastard. His wife and children must despise him. e

[@An-Chliste]

Eamon O’Farrell… Pardon my late arrival to this “party”…but… BRILLIANT!!!! 😂🤣 ☘️🇮🇪☘️🇮🇪

[@conor5211]

John Bruton is an embarrassment to Ireland to think a former Taoiseach is saying all this. Just makes me hate Fine Gael much much more

[@jimmy27paul]

He was a good Taoiseach though, but hes too West Brit.

[@longmemory1620]

hey Conor please remember out of every 10 killed that week 7 were irish

[@aidanjoyce3248]

Bruton you're a bollix

[@garycoss5783]

I agree

[@Iguazu65]

Intersting to rewatch this after the Scottish Referendum on Independence and of course Brexit. Home Rule for Ireland would have resulted in very little above a feeling. It was devolution of the kind an Empire grants, not like devolution today in Wales and Scotland. Both countries are less than happy with their far more benign levels of control. Ireland would have been a vassal state, hugely dependent on GB trade and with a Governor General (aka control of military, police and intelligence). It would also be part of an Empire that was in decent and that had massive economic issues due to costs of WW1. Anything more would have been an affront and risk to British Empire at the time. Remember, Gandhi saw Ireland as a template to attain independence. So Home Rule would have resulted in a lesser version of what Scotland is now. Dragged out of the EU by English voters. Ironically Brexit was about two factors. The concept of sovereignty (borders and laws) and xenophobia (towards EU citizens and even its own “Commonwealth”). Ireland choose independence and the price was the 6 counties. It proved that right choose as WW2 ( and many wars since) would have devastated the country and having our own seat within the EU has hugely helped Ireland advance economically. Finally, the Good Friday Agreement exists for a sole purpose of letting the people decide the future. Not governments.

[@philiprufus4427]

Scotland by the standards of the past is now a wasteland,ask any Scot who like me has lived here for over fifty odd years. SNP have trashed the place in a way Thatchers cronies NEVER did.

[@nigefal]

Even hardline Republicans eventually all come around and cop on that the parliamentary method is the way to go, as they mature and grow as people.

[@pauliewalnuts100]

We didn't get Catholic emancipation until the British realized that there would be massive violence if we didn't get it. We didn't get the Good Friday Agreement without the Provos campaign (shameful as it was) which is our path to a United Ireland.

[@beehanmitchell9691]

Free state hypocrites

[@nev123123123]

wow you guys don't like or respect freedom of speech, by the way you insult everyone who uses it

[@paddyt4043]

Oh I'd like to get my hands on Kevin Myers 😏I'd give him what he needs 😉

[@andysmith5077]

Stop being a dominion of the British empire Start being a dominion of the European Union Priceless!!

[@1798UnitedIrishMen]

Andy Smith You idiot yous are in the same boat as us any eu law which affects Ireland affects Britain you fucking idiot hahaha Secondly Ireland was not a dominion of the British empire Ireland was equal part of the British empire. Dublin was the Empires second city you fucking idiot.

[@RobertK1993]

Andy Smith Ireland rather be state of Europe then a British colony in the commonwealth or member of UK.

[@RobertK1993]

Andy Smith The IRA killed all who oppose united Ireland any Protestant or interfering limeys thought they could stop wish of majority of people Ireland voting for independence. Many Protestant fought bleed fields with catholic comrades.

[@andysmith5077]

Robert Kelly and catholics? Plenty of catholics remember that

[@1798UnitedIrishMen]

Andy Smith Andy you miss the point, its nothing to do wth religion my own uncle was shot by the IRA, he was catholic, relgion has nothing what so ever to do with it, the fact is the IRA didn't care about your religous beleifs, it did not target protestants as combatants like the Loyalist paramilitaries nor did they target unionists in general. the IRA killed roughly 780 innocents of which 400 were catholics, deemed informors or working for the British state. Its regretable any innocents had to die, but before you start talking shite about the IRA be informed with the real facts about it. My uncle was shot leaving church with his wife, does that mean I have hatred for the IRA ? No it doesn't, its his fault for joining the police service and becoming a prison guard. Doing this meant he became a target thus he made his choice he pickled a side and it's just unfortunate he picked the wrong side. Spies informors and traitors in general should be shot on sight. for its them who keep the goal from being achieved. You have very little understanding about the IRA. You presume the IRA hated protestants but the fact is there were many protestants in the IRA my Grandfather being one. You may think you know something about the IRA but the fact is your understanding of the IRA is as indebt as mans understanding of life in general. Basically you haven't a clue what you are talking about and instead of actually looking into it you come on here spouting absolute ballox.

[@johnanthonyfingleton2954]

A disgrace that Bruton was ever a "leader" of this country......we had enough traitors.

[@Bridmaire]

Corporal Myers wittering again

[@johnobrien1206]

the irish wow ww1 fact!!!!

[@novo611]

Nut we have been sold out to the EU Awful

[@pauliewalnuts100]

We joined the EU voluntarily you imbecile

[@eamonxofarrell]

Michael Mc Dowell accquits himself well. Left fine gael.

[@henrymagennis6518]

Invade the north get the huns out back to Scotland 😎

[@professorplums722]

I thought it was the Englush you wanted out? Get the Irish out of Scotland, Wales and England then....agreed? You would say yes and be back over in seconds.....

[@henrymagennis6518]

@@professorplums722 you are full of shite. We did not invade England Scotland or Wales..read your history clarence!

[@amysands8925]

​@@professorplums722 The huns are going no where. They are home and have been for hundreds of years. Get used to it.

[@jonathanwhite5688]

@@professorplums722 no the uk government we want out not the "english"......