CeramicSpeed OSPW Busted! (the truth about watts gained)

[@Fastfitnesstips]

New ceramicspeed busted video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKrbZqZ6hdCAi7M ps pls join us on fft.tips/strava and fft.tips/patreon. thank you!

[@cypherdelic]

Is there a way to check out that pulley loss estimator from you ( 5:17 ) on my own, link? Or do I have to buy that?

[@Fastfitnesstips]

@@cypherdelic if you enter your own data , your personal result will be shown. Email me if I am misunderstanding

[@cypherdelic]

@@Fastfitnesstips I like to enter my own data... but where do i find that mask to enter data? That was my question. I tried to google "FFT Rear Derailleur Power Loss Estimator" but nothing found. Where do I find it? Please offer me a LINK

[@Fastfitnesstips]

@@cypherdelic either this one: fft.tips/ospw or this fft.tips/drivetrain are the ones you probably want

[@cypherdelic]

@@Fastfitnesstips I think i found it in the cycling apps, you called it there "drivetrain efficiency savings"

[@desoi]

$500 for two pulleys and bearings = insanity

[@kalijasin]

For that price you can get a High-End Single Speed Bike or Titanium frame set and build your own custom Gravel bike.

[@tomdarrington]

Yeah, but they make you look more pro, which is worth at least 25 watts in the coffee shop.

[@umah.]

Lol, damn it gives 100 watt boost!

[@jhands1988]

I disagree. I think they make people look dumb.

[@D.Eldon_]

Well explained. Another factor to consider for those of us who do our own maintenance: Even though high-quality ceramic bearings can last longer than high-quality steel bearings, the ceramic bearings have a shorter service interval because they do not handle dirt as well. This is partly because the races are usually steel and when dirt gets into the bearing, the harder ceramic balls will score the softer steel races. This problem is less with steel-on-steel bearings. Because ceramic-on-steel is subject to greater damage from contamination, some manufacturers who supply ceramic bearings with their drivetrain components (like SRAM Red bottom brackets and Red rear derailleur jockey wheels) recommend that you clean and regrease the bearings every time the bike is ridden in the rain. And there's one more factor that many fail to consider: weather seals. The better the bearing is weather sealed, the higher its friction. The super low friction of a ceramic bearing can be quickly undone with good weather seals. This is why choosing bearings is often a choice between trade-offs. You can get the lowest friction with ceramic bearings, ultra-thin oil and no weather seals. But the environment of your route needs to be very clean and dry. As soon as you hit sandy, dirty or muddy road conditions and any kind of rain, the friction of your bearings will quickly rise and you will have wasted the money and effort to achieve such low friction. Because of this, the best application for these kinds of marginal gains is indoor racing and time trials in fair weather on clean roads.

[@mf0u3021]

The last 5 seconds says it all really. Keep your drivetrain clean.

[@forevercomputing]

...and oiled

[@havefunandbikestuffOver40]

Thanks for this myth buster here for ceramic jockey wheel pulley systems. I'll just continue to work on my aero position and flexibility of producing power in that position. thanks again.

[@herosstratos]

I really apreciate your videos. Thank you for your work!

[@thepromrk]

POINT TO MORE FULLY CONSIDER: You mentioned Alberto Contador's mechanic taking out the factory grease in his pulley wheels and replacing with a lighter oil. I guarantee that CeramicSpeed tests are against competitor wheels with factory grease. I've been doing what Contador's mechanic does with my Sram "Blackbox" Ceramic pulley wheel bearings and, like ceramic speed, they now will spin forever (I take out factory grease and replace with low friction oil). I do clean and re-oil the pulley wheels every 500-700 miles (depending on conditions), but they've (SRAM"'blackbox" ceramic pulley bearings) lasted me 2 years without any perceivable performance loss. I would love to see a segment testing this on other brands to see the performance gains we can get without breaking the bank when it comes to the bearings we have (or minimal upgrades to SRAM or Shimano ceramic bearings). Thanks for all your amazing content!!

[@johncontreras2643]

I'm going back to regular stocked pulleys. My experience is that OSPWs catch debris (twigs, leaves) for those occasion off road or from road debris. Past 6 months of running OSPW, I've had numerous things getting caught in my drivetrain (never experienced this in 20yrs) and two snapped off derailleur hangers from the debris getting caught in OSPW system. Just my experience, but a snapped off derailleur hanger leaves you stranded.

[@maxe2820]

I buy them to demonstrate I'm utterly clinically insane. Any saved wattage is a bonus

[@maxe2820]

Actually I'm not that insane

[@scubascott1098]

When I looked in to oversized derailleur pulleys I figured that their obnoxiously huge size would cause at-least a watt or 2 of wind drag, striking out any marginal gains in drivetrain efficiency. Thanks for your videos! You save a lot of people a lot of cash :)

[@bobmajew53]

It looks cool. Perhaps it's easier on the chain?

[@jdslfc]

In the world of cycling where 100g of weight in a frame costs thausands of dollars, a product that potentially saves a watt or more of parasitic loss is more than welcome.

[@Fastfitnesstips]

Quite true Scott. The aero losses have been measured at around 1 watt at 40kph...so subtract that from the efficiency savings (see comment by cyclefacts)

[@raptuspl]

Great video and channel. I can't believe I have not seen it earlier. Keep up the good work and those videos coming!

[@Fastfitnesstips]

appreciate the feedback!

[@MattDion]

Nice one! I'd be interested in diving into the real savings on bottom bracket and hub bearings. I understand while they might not be spinning as fast as the RD, they are more load bearing, so there might be a higher wattage loss there that could potentially be minimized.

[@ReinhardSchuster]

So buy a KMC DLC Chain lube it with Wax and save just 420$ and have a loss of 0.5W but no issue at rain and 3 times longer a super clean Chain. but the 420$ in a better Front wheel and save over 10w.

[@reginaldscot165]

I have been saying this for years... thank you for proving it. I tell my customers not to waste their money on this stuff

[@MidgenTwentyOne]

What did he "prove" exactly? He's not providing any data to prove or disprove anything. Just like the rest of us, he's only postulating and doing his own (non scientific) speculation about what he thinks is happening.

[@panzerveps]

Their*

[@RiceKingDeep]

me too ! I'm gonna inform all my customers :D

[@mostmug]

if you really wanted to help. you would tell them to shop online instead.

[@epicmtbtrails7107]

Good video! Though, even if those pulleys did save you 2.4W, it's a joke for almost $500! A solid used road bike can be bought for around that money!

[@kangzosa]

Epic MTB Trails Pretty sure you could buy some serious drugs for 500$ that are gonna give you a lot more than 2.4 watts. More like 50 watts if you get on a serious drug program.

[@epicmtbtrails7107]

Lance never rode to Stelvio!

[@martinj9647]

daAnder71 totally agree. Honestly companies like this just prey on some people's snob factor. If you put a high enough price tag on anything there will be enough idiots that buy it solely because it's expensive, and to those idiots a high price creates the illusion of value, quality, or performance. I also agree with the sentiment of just putting that $500 elsewhere. Even if you have nice wheels, if you're looking to burn $500 sure you could spend it on a bunch of the cheaper stuff to shave enough weight to gain the minimal, if any, gains you'd see from using giant $5-650+ pulleys. At least in my case I could.

[@TheMattynaught01]

I think these gains are aimed at professional cyclists

[@casualguy393]

And this is why I bought Campagnolo Bullet 50s without springing for the USB or Ultras instead of Boras. 500km on them already and spent the extra money at Hooters. Big smiles all around :)

[@GreatWhite7]

Latex tubes save 5w per tyre according to new research. Good saving for about $10-20.

[@RixterNow]

Well stated. I guess $500 to save 1 watt makes it just as expensive as the new Mavic shoes that are $1000 and save 2 watts. Between those two products you could save 3 watts and pay more than what most people pay for an actual bike 🙄

[@Fastfitnesstips]

hi Rixter isnt the Mavic comete claiming 4.2 watts? anyone seen any data on this?

[@RixterNow]

GCN had a video. I thought 2 watts, but could be wrong. 4 would make it a real value in the watt per dollar equation

[@Fastfitnesstips]

We are going to do a feature on marginal gains very soon.

[@teamgearmen7129]

Researching regarding Ceramic Speed and look who i bumped into :D

[@RixterNow]

You found me. DON'T bother with anything ceramic

[@cypriano8763]

they look cool and thats all middle aged men with a lot of disposable income care about. the blingest bike when you show up at your weekly group ride

[@EvilBambo0]

I see you did alot of research on this matter and I appreciated your input re the DA pulley wheels actually got worse. I got one of those digirit pulley wheel system on my etap but I couldn't notice any difference from stock. I have got rid of the writing on it with actone however, I think it looks better now. Keep up the good work, just subscribed to your channel.

[@rogerhonacki5610]

I Clean the chain really often, oil with T-9, and you'll get pretty close. For $500, you can afford to change the pulley wheels periodically too. I like the CeramicSpeed concept, and when the price comes down to about $75, I'll be jumping on the bandwagon. Till then I'm afraid I'll be cleaning my drivetrain.

[@littlegoobie]

There have been very similar arguments coming from high end baitcaster fishing reel tuners for years. The result is selling/marketing extremely high dollar ceramic bearing upgrades, reel parts, and aftermarket ported line spools with larger internal diameters. The reality is though that there are so many other factors that it generally doens't make a huge difference. And exactly like your video showed, the reel tuners often show how long a reel will spin and freespool after the upgrades, and they also run bearings DRY as you said these guys do. A very good reel, is very good right out of the box, any improvements will be extremely marginal at best with low returns per dollar.

[@bernhardhirschauer6466]

Nice review. Did you also check the aeroeffect of the OPWS?

[@CyclespeedTours]

Good video that helps to expose the 'ceramic bearings for bikes' myth. In any case the differences being talked about for jockey wheels are so tiny as to be almost immeasurable. And bigger cage = more drag. In the light of this, though, don't you think your 'Save 37W with a clean, straight chain' was overdoing it a bit?!

[@Fastfitnesstips]

Hi Andrew, thanks for the positive constructive feedback. Regarding the previous chain video I don't think 37W is outside of the high end of savings that can be made against a fully (hopelessly) unoptimised chain. I thought you would know by now that these savings are dependent on lots of factors all of which cannot be known to FFT. This is why we put out a calculator (aka *coughs* estimator this time). Did you have a look? The highest watt savings are going to be with the more powerful riders (high speed high watts) with lossy systems. I did not claim 37w is the average saving but then not to quote the high end of savings would be odd. FFT is not promising anyone anything because I have no way of knowing their bike nor what they intend to purchase, I am providing information....which may be known or unknown to the audience. So the bottom line for your provocative comment (which btw I don't mind at all as I know we are adults treating each other with respect) is that do you have data that my facts are wrong in relation to my chain video? Or do you want to me make a chain loss estimator? Or do you think we should do more lab tests before going public......if so you are much more qualified than me!

[@CyclespeedTours]

I just think that some of the elements in that chain video were overstated. Finding and using data off the internet is interesting, but you're putting a lot of faith in it. I am an engineer, but common sense plays a big part in telling you that ceramic bearings are really not going to save you anything significant, and that a different chain will not give you 8W or whatever it was. Common sense also tells you that high end cyclists work very hard for a 10W FTP gain, and that even just a 15W gain from 'chain optimisation' is not realistic, as that cyclist's results would suddenly leap. I realize that '37W' makes for a better headline than '5W', but realistically, for the vast majority of cyclists out there, the gains to be had are very small. Just keep your chain reasonably clean and lubed and replace it when it's worn out, basically.

[@Hambini]

I agree with the comments above, 15W from chain optimisation is unrealistic. You don't appear to have any hard data to back up your statements but have convinced a vast number of the viewing public that everything you come out with is true. All of your data is in the public domain and not your own testing. As a professional engineer, this strategy is questionable.

[@Fastfitnesstips]

Hi Hambini. It is not a question of convincing anyone of anything we are providing data interpretation and data interpretation tools. What did you think of our pulley loss estimator model? ps. I was not aware you held an oinion that we can only talk on youtube about topics concerning our own generated data. On this basis youtube is going to be pretty empty.

[@Hambini]

I cannot download your pulley estimator because I don't have a facebook or twitter account.

[@DCassidy42]

Just keep your drive train clean, and train hard. No amount of super slippery bearings is going to make you into a world class athlete. Peter Sagan could out sprint me on a BMX.

[@stephmiller6403]

did you add in rolling resistances and smoothness? Have you used it? can you fell how much smoother it is? You did ride the product right?

[@richardstewart5499]

Great video, as usual! Best drive-train advice my German Coach Klaus Wolfe gave me: Wax your chain and inspect it often.

[@leviusx3591]

Funny is that on the Graph the tacx ceramic are 4/5th Place and they Cost like 25$ :D

[@fmc6338]

True for many things, cannot trust manufacturer to test products and give objective view. thanks for the work.

[@waynosfotos]

Thanks for speaking truth against a big manufacturer. Cheers

[@sodalitia]

What about us mere mortals with limited budgets? Remove the seals from steel bearings and reduce the fill rate to 25% using light oil, not grease. What is it? You say you wear out your bearings fast this way? So? Considering you have to service your ceramic bearings frequently to maintain performance, its more cost and time efficient to just buy medium price steal cartridges, strip them off original grease and seals and replace them periodically.

[@MrGoodaches]

I remain baffled that there's a perceived benefit to 15T pulley wheels when cassette cogs have shrunk to 11T. The cassette cog has far greater load (therefore more friction) than pulley wheels. Has anyone done the math on the watts penalty of adding a link or two to the chain to accommodate the wagon wheel size pulleys?

[@bobmajew53]

Try 'Slick 50' in your normal bearings after exposing and cleaning the balls and race. Slick 50 is a Teflon based hydrophobic automotive oil additive, but it works amazingly alone on high stress bearings as pulleys.

[@budesmatpicu3992]

imagine someone once counts all the manufacturers' claims and puts them together on one bike... frame, clothes, shoes, helmet, drivetrain, wheels, tires, etc... could easily "save" you more than hundred virtual watts

[@rogerhonacki5610]

Based on the claims I've seen, the bike will pedal itself!

[@massoedarmaji7257]

Hi, what if i changed stock pulleys with cbear ceramic, how much savings that i will gain? 1 watt or even less?

[@steffanzwerg3424]

Where can you get the R-ACE. Do you have a website for me? Where can I find information about the R-Ace? Thank You

[@Fastfitnesstips]

Steffan we cannot find it either...maybe it is discontinued!

[@georgejgilles.3999]

Thank you for making this video; you saved me hundreds of dollars.

[@happydays8171]

My SRAM Red rear derailleur had holes drilled wrong for the pulleys. My mechanic could not adjust out the stuttering that happened intermittently. The CeramicSpeed, with it's 3way adjustability took the stuttering out. Now it shifts better than I could imagined, killing any desire in me to go to an electronic system, which saved me $1500-2000 smackaronis. I think it was worth it.

[@TheJdcanfield]

Nice resourceful and efficient story about making good use of this product. You can't go wrong when it's necessary. Enjoy the rides...

[@johndef5075]

Ace mechanic couldnt get a new derailleur under warranty? Shouldnt even need a warranty actually for a defective part. Im calling bs....

[@Halfdead80]

Interesting! Any chance you can throw a link to the R-ace system? Having trouble finding anything through Google. Cheers.

[@Fastfitnesstips]

www.indiegogo.com/projects/world-fastest-oversized-pulley-wheel-cage-system-bike#/

[@loopie007]

I think the engineer behind the product has some good ideas, but the real results come from testing, not estimating. I do like how he wants to use thick sprockets to hold and align the chain for best shifting, but doesn't want the drag involved. Good to see he is thinking with different ideas on how to solve the problem. Unfortunatly, it looks like his project is dead. I cannot contact him..

[@jensenhealey907efi]

at 00:41 there is some green text at the bottom of the screen that says something about "Editor: how do you know they are...." but it is not readable due to the color of the text on the dark background. Can the makers of this video please clarify what that text says?

[@Fastfitnesstips]

The editor's comment is regarding "selling to pro teams" we don't know if anything is being sold to pro teams vs giving away products to pro team in return for product placement; product placement deals are pretty common practice in sport and may not be disclosed by the manufacturer.

[@jensenhealey907efi]

OK, thanks

[@sunshinecycling]

Do you add back 1 watt with the extra air resistance of the larger wheel? :)

[@Fastfitnesstips]

in some circumstances yes! see fft.tips/ospw

[@adolfrichtar3731]

I just replaced the wheels and I felt the difference. So I bought on Merlins cycle the whole Ceramic speed for OSPW and I CAN NOT complain. I paid 350 dollars.

[@SimSimon87]

I believe that the ceramic speed rear derailleurs with the enlarged pully wheels are a good pice of equipment. But at a price tag of roughly 500,- EUR / USD this will definitely be the very last upgrade I consider. Even if its performance meets my expectations we're still just talking about 1 watt for 250,- EUR or so. That's bloody expensive!

[@z1522]

I can experience several lost watts, through a dirty, crusty, dry rear derailleur that I've neglected for a year. If I were to swap out to one of these, I suspect I'd clean and lube everything else at the same time, and sure, guess what I'd gain? I gave up on Aftermkt ball bear pulleys decades ago, after I found them to get clogged worse than every bushing pulley I ever used. Cutout lightening holes also just get full of greasy road dirt as well.

[@fiddleronthebike]

good video, well explanation! I think in practice the most important thing is what you say at 11'25" ff, the grease is extremely important factor, and that can turn the best bearing in the laboratory into a very poor one on the road and vice versa, because the best bearing with some dirt in it is by far worse than a midclass bearing with heavy but clean grease. May be that is the reason for the high W with Campa and new Dura Ace jockey wheels? Campus grease is very chewy (if you clean Campa jockey wheels and put just oil in the bearings, they run as almost as the Ceramic Speeds in the video), but it is a great barrier against dirt, and may be Shimano has changed the grease for the new DA (cause I can't imagine they have downgraded the wheels...)?

[@petercklauhk]

Great video and good analytical skill

[@ke0kie]

Was there a testing methodology used here that led to measurements supporting the claim against CS?

[@philcavaleri3698]

Legend.. excellent information.

[@kalijasin]

If I had that kind of money to spend I would Not spend it on ceramic bearings. Total waste of money!!

[@raresmircea]

honest and well articulated content 👌

[@manuelbelteton7503]

everybody have a watch but not everybody can have a Rolex ceramispeed 👍

[@maartenholsboer50]

Nice theorie, now it's time to test it and see if it holds true

[@Fastfitnesstips]

which theory are you referring to specifically (from the video); and....are you willing to help with the testing?

[@davidtydeman1434]

Thank you for the video- there has to be a good reason why the big manufacturers don’t offer oversized pulley wheels as standard or as an option

[@Juanparrastudio]

Not worth $500 for 1.4w... they charge this mostly for the looks. I bet they pay like $20 to make this and sell it for $500! Great margins guys!

[@enotracoon9244]

Great vid, thank you !

[@se7ensnakes]

Never mind the watt gain or lost I like the way they look.

[@simongeeves9662]

Did anyone take into consideration the weight of the jockey wheel system from CeramicSpeed? usually bigger is heavier, the larger wheel may look lightweight but the frame to support it is larger and possibly heavier. I read in a Japanese cycling magazine a pulley system from Carbondryjapan actually adds 16g (compared to DuraAce Di2). 38000Yen for a 16 grams weight penalty sounds like a farce. How much does one kilo in weight loss add to your KW output? I also saw the cheapest way to save watts was to slip on some shoe covers.... but that's a secret right?

[@fiddleronthebike]

well... that 16 g cost you about 0.0066 W at 40 kph

[@dymbag1]

Great vid by these guys. I have been a bike mechanic for 21 years and i have fornd there are better and much more affordable ways to get less drag from your bearings than buying ceramic bearings and buying into the BS of ceramic bearings.

[@liam8301]

Shimano tourney saves (roughly) 2.78766w over Campagnolo Ultegra Red Edition

[@junjani]

Pls share the links to r-ace

[@MntRprznt]

Debunking that ceramic nonsense deserves a sub at least. Ceramic is good in machine bearings with RPMs going into tens to hundreds of thousands [because of heat]. Ceramic elements other then bearings just make your bike more expensive and less sturdy for marginal weight gains.

[@drampadreg1386]

Talk about the point of diminishing returns! It's all too distracting, I ride for fun these days, and so I don't drive a car when I don't need to which has turned out to be around 21 years now. So screw watts, how much smog have I saved the Earth from?

[@marcc1824]

In each system (large or small) the chain ends up making the same bends. So wouldn't the amount of friction in each bend end up equalling each other? Sure the smaller tooth increases the bend in the chain but the larger pully has more chain links that are bent to run the same path. Did I miss something that explains that?

[@fiddleronthebike]

but that chain bend happens only twice - when the chain enters the pull wheel and when it leaves the pull wheel; it does not matter how many teeth are in between those points, because no further bend does happen, the chain stays in the same configuration

[@U20101954]

my shimano 5600 rear mech and its original pulleys are good enough for me.

[@makantahi3731]

what will happens when dirt comes into ball bearings- it is in stream of dirt air . i use shimano dura ace from 1995. with ceramic slide bearings-it will last forever, does not rust and it is still as new but it has pay attention on torque when screw

[@MickJabber]

Another great video

[@Fastfitnesstips]

thanks, appreciated. its an area where people have strong opinions!

[@rocketboyxbb]

Ceramic Speed, it's their way of marketing and over hyping it up. Unless you are a racing professional, you will want to do anything to gain an advantage over your rivals. But for the rest of us mere mortals, this marginal gain just ain't worth the money. This video is great, 2 thumbs up.

[@makantahi3731]

dura ace from 1995 had ceramic bearings in puley but puley were smaller and coster 10-15 usd

[@fultor7846]

Thank you for this analysis.

[@georgec2894]

Silly marginal gain conundrum: I have dura ace 11t pulleys with 7000 dry kilometers in them. Teeth look in good shape. Would I find better watts/£ value buying some Tacx T4065 pulleys (0.1w faster than DA and fresh teeth, bearings etc.) at around £25 or buying some ceramic speed pulley oil for £5.50 for the dura ace ones I already have?

[@Fastfitnesstips]

George C email [e-mail] and I'll give you a preview of our calculator which will give the answer

[@georgec2894]

Sent the email. Look forward to receiving the preview of the calculator.

[@Fastfitnesstips]

ok got it

[@georgec2894]

much appreciated. Thank you

[@allesiofondressi2602]

I installed my Ceramic Speed bottom bracket, a new YBN chain and an OSPWS and I can tell you for sure it all adds up to free watts. I have zero resistance in my drive train, none. I also fitted my race wheels, I hand built them, with special coated ceramic bearings in the hubs. I tested all of the changes against my tried and true benchmark testing course(s). One of my courses is 14 miles and I saved 6 minutes and 30 seconds. Additionally, no matter where I ride my bike, I am consistently able to use two harder gears and am moving faster. I'm happy I live in a time when I can enjoy the amazing technology that is fun, exciting and very, very fast. My bike/drive train are always spotless.

[@CyclespeedTours]

Are you really trying to tell us that you went from doing a 22km course in, say, 37.7 minutes (35km/h) to 31.4 minutes (42km/h)?? And all down to some ceramic bearings and a new chain? Sorry but that's just delusional. Assuming a flat course, that's going from 210watts to 345watts. A 135W difference....no way.

[@ggdd1299]

then you woke up...

[@thehandleiwantedwasntavailable]

I think if you’re buying this stuff simply to be faster on a Sunday coffee ride, then it’s worth looking in the mirror. The best reward for being faster on a Sunday morning comes when it’s earned through riding more and training smarter :)

[@grahamtricker4103]

Another point to mention is the enormous amount of extra noise these large alloy pulley systems make over the smaller plastic types used by Shimano/SRAM/Campagnolo. This to me would negate any possible savings in power (if there were any) as the extra noise produced is very fatiguing...

[@Fastfitnesstips]

Graham Tricker That is a very interesting point Graham Tricker because extra noise is usually a sign of wasted energy. However I love a quiet bike too that why I like the SRAM RED 1190 cassette not necessarily because of the weight.

[@steviemarco7353]

Sram 1170 is quieter and not much heavier. Can't justify the price of another Red 1190 over an 1170.

[@EditioCastigata]

Buy a 1170 once (I don't know if it applies to the 1190, too), and when you need to replace it, go for the 1130 and just swap the spacers and lockring. Voila, you upgraded your 1130 to a 1170.

[@steviemarco7353]

Ooh, might give that a try, cheers :)

[@Fractal80Y]

It must be all about feel and feedback from the drivetrain as a system rather than having noticeable gains.

[@dex2]

I use a 15 tooth ceramic bearing pulley, the company is not ceramic speed but another brand name called Fouriers; I think they are great and I felt a difference. The difference is not that much but surely I could feel the chain less tensed. I really think the difference is more than 1 watts. It's jus my opinion.

[@DCassidy42]

placebo effect?

[@crypto_que]

Don't over sized pulley wheels, offer less parasitic loss & the chain follows a path of less resistance?

[@takegoodcareoftheforestdew5339]

What you don't talk about is whether potential increases from aero-drag due to a bigger cage and jockey wheels offsets any frictional losses. As a mountainbiker I care not, but as an engineer, I'm curious.

[@Fastfitnesstips]

Quite true! but actually I do talk about that! (in the follow up video, see the unlisted one at the end too) kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZuQf2ulgrV1oJo

[@takegoodcareoftheforestdew5339]

@@Fastfitnesstips Nice one. Snake oil then.

[@MIHALMICHAEL]

thank you, excellent video

[@zwamman]

We all knew of course that these CS OSPW's are total BS. However, I'm running campag chorus 10sp and I'm getting slightly annoyed with the pulley wheels - really bad design. Does anyone know of a good after market option? It would be nice to save a watt, but what I really want is some decently sealed bearings there instead of a metal cylinder that gets corroded.

[@AdamQueen]

Without the ceramic bearing and wattage saving bullshit, large pulley with reasonable price (50~70 USD) is not bad, as it makes cleaning much easier. The small default cogs make it a little hard to clean, as the only way to clean them is to disassemble them from derailleur, while large pulley don't. Despite that, I see nothing else worthy.

[@dymbag1]

Grease = drag = less power, this is why Ceramic Bearings seem to run more freely. if you remove the grease and less friction on the bearing seals you will save power

[@dymbag1]

Also Ceramic is designed to work best at high temp and high speeds upwards of 7000rpm which you could never attain on a bicycle

[@Gordanovich02]

Can't help but think that if you're gonna spend c.$500 on upgrades there are better places to spend it.

[@TheMattynaught01]

Way back when I was a lad, we had jockey wheels with no teeth, has anyone tried deleting the teeth altogether?

[@bobmajew53]

There's another point the lightweight aluminum rollers have a very short life. I typically have to change rollers annually to be sure

[@davidturpin9135]

9:59 I bought the Rockbros system on Wish.com for $80. Installed it on my TT bike. Did not win. But... what can I expect when I am probably seeing like 1W savings? BTW these use true ceramic bearing and ceramic race... but they come DRY. So you probably give up some of that Watt just by putting grease in them.

[@alvaropadillla7275]

You have tu do a test where you put your bike without ceramicspeed, an another with ceramicspeed.....knowing the power input and the power output you really can know how many watts are you saving

[@anthonybrown5655]

That's lucky then, even I realised you are not head of marketing😊

[@Dvearncombe]

I wonder if there is an adverse aero impact of having the larger pulley system? You talked about the savings from skewers and aero brakes, how ironic would it be if the mechanical savings where then offset by aero penalties

[@Fastfitnesstips]

CeramicSpeed claims no loss, but they have not released this data. Independent testing is urgently required!

[@ca5ualm3dia]

why do they put the front brake behind the fork ....

[@Fastfitnesstips]

to save 2-4w.

[@dalezapple2493]

500 USD for a few watts is pricey indeed

[@RelentlessC2C]

No grease left in my ultegra pulley wheel. Spins better than Alistair Campbell on a carousel. I just pop a bit of Teflon dry lube on it after every wash. Eventually it will die, and I shall replace it with the new set I have in my spares drawer that cost £15.

[@testblustacks5799]

Summary: for bigger savings at no cost use light oil on the pulley wheels and keep drive train pristine clean.

[@barrymonaghan6593]

A clean and properly lubricated drive train will save you watts and money!

[@happydays8171]

I get it, doesn't look like it would save watts. But, I bought a SRAM Red derailleur new on ebay, gears would grind on occasion, mechanic thought it was pulleys, replaced pulleys, no change, my mechanic said CeramicSpeed oversized wheels have 3 different adjustment angles that can be made and we were able to adjust out the clash of gears. With the CeramicSpeed I am faster, maybe mental, but when I push my bike through say stops, the bike gets noticed, especially by mechanics comment on my SHIV, so I'm happy. Note, all other comparable big wheel pulley systems he mentions are non adjustable if you derailleur is off like mine. And it has to be serviced every 6 mos like he says, but we'll worth it in my application.

[@johndef5075]

Wouldnt you just align your derailleur?

[@happydays8171]

@@johndef5075 Stock derailleur pulleys only have one angle of adjustment, CeramicSpeed has 3, was able to correct the weird angle. It was bought on Ebay, so don't know how to get mfg to fix it.

[@Choc_Chilla]

Im just wondering if you can take the cheaper ones and replace the actual bearings with bearings from another industry. like RC Cars and skateboards. Some skateboard riders have used ceramic bearings for decades. Also, when you picture RC Cars, please dont picture the toys you get from the supermarket. Rather, picture a almost 4kg car made from high quality alloys and carbon fiber worth approx $3000. These guys use Ceramic bearings sometimes too, esp in nitro engines. but there is very little difference in the wheel bearings, but arguably more benifit in the engines. In the picture, the beaings casing seems to be pretty much industry standard. So long as the sizes are the same as other industry's. I say it would not hurt to try. you can get ceramic bearings for RC Cars for as little as $50. So it depends how many would be needed too. $500 for a set of beaings seems like a bit of an exploit to me. I highly recomend someone investogating the use of bearings from other industry's to chaive the same result as these guys have.

[@scottshowen]

Or you could just ride your bike and have fun..

[@Demon09-_-]

does it say what kinda power it takes to save ? 1000watts lol ? I think nice tires /latex tubee should be much before this as some of those high end tires can save a few watts

[@Fastfitnesstips]

hi, Try the calculator and you will see the possible savings (if any)

[@Demon09-_-]

Fastfitnesstips it should be marketed as if you can spin 53/12 you could save 2.37 watts

[@James-zu1ij]

isn't it about time that flexibility is engineered in to rear derailleurs i.e. so that jockey wheels point along the chain. And maybe the teeth on the front chain ring could have teeth that swivel on a needle bearing. Or have a solenoid controlled rear cassette that moves itself into the correct position. And a flame thrower on the back is essential.

[@z1522]

At 3:40, the huge reveal that CeramicSpeed bought Friction "Facts." The only clear revelation from that group which has been corroborated is the benefit of paraffin as chain lube; other tests are pretty debatable and conveniently overlook things like "100% gain" from a 0.02 watt drag is only 0.01 watt. Pros get paid to win, team budgets cover silly tweaks and the mechanic hours to service or replace, and parts often are from sponsors. If you aren't paid to ride, why are you concerned about at best trivial benefits, for extravagant costs, unless it is to impress your heart surgeon buddies? As to Contador, if his team had the funds to budget for both clenbuterol, blood transfusions etc, they could surely afford such frivolous extras. For the newbies, Campagnolo for decades had a small port thru the middle of hubs, where oil could be directly added to grease-free bearings, in special events like time trials or track. No strong evidence indicates proof that any wins hinged entirely on this practice, based more on tradition, anecdote, placebo effects and superstition. The industry today is sadly driven far more by marketing and hype, than real attention to the plebian needs or desires of most riders. Bike shops have regained business, because the tech-heavy machines are harder than ever to maintain, and the service intervals for external BB bearings is a hundred times more frequent than for the sealed canisters from the 80s thru the 90's. As to the obsession over pulleys: What happens to the shifting traits? The pulley cage is wrapping extra chain not used in other gear combinations, and the lower chain is only under the tension from the pulley arm spring, not that of the upper segment feeling the rider's full leg power. Mis-shifts and jams and dropped chains can be traced to problems with the pulleys and cage, beyond simple weight shavings.