Cerwin Vega VS-120 and AT-12 Comparison

In this video I go through a few of the differences and similarities of the Cerwin Vega VS-120 and AT-12 floor standing speakers. If you are looking into maybe buying one or the other or both of these great speakers this is a good watch on the strengths and weaknesses of both of them.

[@mattieice2988]

Dear SV My Brother from another Mother! :) Your video was absolutely brilliant I love old school people like you. Im a big fan of CWvs120s aka party speakers!! you just cant find a better choice of older speakers, I was so blessed to have purchased the pair of vs120s and a Yamaha RX-V800 at an Estate sale both speakers for 60 dollars and the amplifier for 100 dollars as well! The sound as you know is pure clean THD is less than.08 RMS around 150 per C sounds Phenomenal, Im an Audiophile my whole life, MY wife says i have Issues LOL have over 10 sets of speakers amps my fav the proton, But anyway i just wanted to say thank you Bro, for taking the time to make your Video, and as far as Cerwin Vegas go?? I will buy them any chance I can !!! You know that Saying... Dont Sing it ! Bring It And thats what the VS120s Do! Have a great day bro, and thanks again for making this Video

[@SavingVegas]

Im glad you liked it and as for me I have a lot of fun making these videos and I plan on making many more. I am the same way when it comes to CVs. I currently own 9 sets of them at the moment but am always buying more and selling a few here and there. Thanks for watching, its always good to hear when someone enjoys my videos

[@lokerola]

I have a pair of VS120s in my system now. I've recapped them and replaced the tweeters. Excellent speakers!

[@SavingVegas]

That they are. Mine get used everytime I'm in the shop which is pretty much every day. I find they are a very well rounded speaker that play pretty much every genre of music very well. Never had any tweeter issues with mine but have had them cut out a time or two when I really push them.

[@fghjfghgj]

@@SavingVegas hi i have a pair of at 12,actally mine are the 60 the european version.need a power amp what do you suggest?now i have a yamaha ax 592 thanks

[@mathesar]

I was the original owner of a set of AT-15's back in the early 90s (purchased at circuity city) and I remember them having the same baffling layout as the vs-120 here where it runs across above the woofer, it wasn't a perfect seal it was attached to the cabinet bracing above woofer. Loved those speakers I also had a similar Kenwood receiver shown behind you mine was a Kenwood KR-V8010 and it was pretty crazy how well it powered the AT15's being it was only 100 watts per channel.

[@SavingVegas]

Mine is a KR-V7020 and my dad actually bought that back in the 90's. It pushed my VS120s pretty good for what it is.

[@jayweb702]

I used to drool over those!

[@conduit242]

Man those VS120s slammed, still have great memories of this speaker 25y later! If you love big box speakers, check out some Klipsch Cornwalls

[@SavingVegas]

I want to get some La Scala's one day when I get around to finishing my basement and some tube amp power. That's the dream lol

[@conduit242]

@@SavingVegas Same here! Keep dreaming bud

[@conduit242]

@@SavingVegas oh also, check out the JTR speakers, Youthman actually replaced his La Scalas with those!

[@DougMen1]

@@SavingVegas The La Scala is the best speaker ever made!

[@parkersgarage4216]

i have a pair of walnut at-12's. hands down my favorite speakers.

[@ericnortan9012]

I owned AT-12s back in the '90s/ early '00s. I currently own a set of VS 100s (kind-of) I picked up a full set of drivers and crossovers so I rebuilt the boxes to the closest specs in size as I cold come up with. Turned out pretty good for our shop speakers. AT-12s were great. I own SL-15s now, I agree on the big box 3-way sound. I love them, very comparable or better than most old school CVs I have heard. May be not as good of drivers but the cabinet is solid and they do anything I need them to.

[@SavingVegas]

One day I might try out the SL series but for now I will stick with fixing up every Vega I can get my hands on.

[@ericnortan9012]

@@SavingVegas that's cool. The reason I bought them was they had to be nice and new for the living room. They were th closest in looks, specs and sound to the old school CVs I could find anywhere. XLS numbers were nice, but I dont like all the plastic, could be a problem later on. Love the 61/4" mid though. Opted for the SLs, they handle all the power I can throw at them (I haven't tried to purposely blow them up). The boxes seem really well made, but it's not like the old school box's were great. Great design maybe, but standard materials. My only knock is the steal woofers, but that doesn't make or break a woofer. It's about sound, to me they sound great and make my whole block rumble. Even with "audiophile" hifi stuff they have a nice clean sound with excellent lows. I would like to see a pro put them through the test and see how they actually stack up.

[@hisWACness]

Ha! Mu wife may beg to differ on having too many. LOL. How's the bass of the AT-12 vs the VS-120? I've been blown away by the bass response of the VS-120s and RE-30s. Very pleasing. I want to get some 15" Cerwins, but wonder how they'll compare to my current 12s in the bass department.

[@Kibster78]

I had a pair of vs-8. They were so loud an the qualtity was unbelievable.

[@oldskoolbrawler]

Thanks so much for this video! Very helpful

[@tenehaglendening9246]

I have a set of dx9 and a set of mx400. I love cerwin vega. What's your opinion of the dx9 and mx400

[@SavingVegas]

The mx400 is a great speaker. In my opinion very similar to the vs-150 but with a way better tweeter. I'm a sucker for horns because they are in most cases much louder and thats what I prefer. Would probably be my everyday speakers for my shop if I could ever find a set where I live. As for the dx9s, I believe they designed these speakers to appeal to all the D series lovers but meant to be a little more well rounded for all types of music. Not taking anything away from the original D series that are popular for good reason. I love the appearance of the dx speakers.

[@josephsaucedo8691]

Thanks I have both but I didn't know it till you said what the difference was between the woofers I bought juat the subs off eBay both sets need work but they were still functional I got the parts from simply speaker IV wanted a pair of sv sense I was probably 10 years old I grew up hairing my dad and uncle always talking about them and seeing them in almost every tv shows in the 90s background and in movies. I couldn't afford them when sold in store's I could buy them now but the price for a pair in box shipping is still ridiculously averages about 500$ with shipping on eBay that a little pricey for old speak that are all original and would need up dating so I got just the subs actually a couple pairs I have tweeter and mid with cross over I just need to build or find the boxes so I probably will have some questions for you when I get time to build them good thing I took wood shop in high school lol and have the tools to build them have a great one till the next one save them all. 🎶💯👍✌️✌️🥂 Ps I had also bought a pair of the newer version 12 complete but there not the same as the originals and the foam black they sound good but I'm sure not the same.

[@Poppinwheeeeellllllieeeeez]

I was hoping you were going to get into a crossover rebuild on the AT12's....upgraded capacitors.

[@SavingVegas]

I plan on doing a AT-12 crossover video eventually. Just trying to get some past due projects finished up before I start my next few. Have some 12TR's coming for a restoration and some VS-150's to fix up.

[@ronennenga9471]

The yellow caps don't really need upgrades. they are mylar. No aging problems. You could replace with polypropylene, but they might not fit. The inductors they use are shite, though. Upgrades for those would definitely not fit on that crossover board ;)

[@nastynaz6033]

I have a set of U 15 head cerwin vega had them over 50 year's if you could believe tht they sill look new with Kenwood KR 9600 got them together now I like to Upgrade my crossovers Could you some advice please Just need to do the crossoversThank you John Naz

[@erickort1987]

bro,nice talk on these speakers,i subscribed to your channel

[@PradeeshPadmasenan]

Greetings man. Thanks for doing these vids. Am I able to contact you for repairs on my CV?

[@SavingVegas]

You can email me at [e-mail]

[@nastynaz6033]

Plus have a set of Beautiful UT12R HED WITH BLUE CONE WOFFERS 122T2 That ripped from A litter of kitty cats Just before I purchase them There given to me Can't find cones for them Simply speakers Did know what to tell me To have any ideas for me Please and thank you J Naz

[@gnawbabygnaw]

Thanks. Very good info 🤙🤙

[@Foderboxen]

Love your videos.. can't see any reviews on the vs150 - do you know them ? thinking about getting them :-)

[@SavingVegas]

I made a video on the entire VS series. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoizqKJneJWImK8 Here's the link to it if you haven't seen it yet.

[@mitchie747]

So awesome. Great review. Out of curiosity how would you know if the fuse was blown in these speakers ? I currently have a pair of the xls 15, they sure do sound amazing

[@SavingVegas]

The fuse is for the overall protection of the speaker. When that fuse blows there will be no sound from the speaker.

[@mitchie747]

@@SavingVegas thanks for the response 😎

[@BlindMan-ik5es]

have you checked out the cerwin vaga re 25?

[@mariodarkfire3145]

Qu'elle est le meilleur Amplificateur pour écouter de la musique sur mon pc avec mes certain Véga VS - 120 et surtout dans mes écouteurs Merci à l'avance

[@BorisKid]

I have at 12s. What would be a better speaker to upgrade from them. Non vegas.

[@ingenfestbrems]

The at12 was the at80 in Norway 🇳🇴

[@BigJip]

Hey brother, I’ve had a set of VS-120’s since the mid 90’s, and just got a set of VS-80’s. I have always used a Kenwood KR-a5070 receiver on the 4 ohm setting for the VS-120’s. Now that I have the VS-80’s also, I’d like to run all 4 together, but the receiver says only use one channel for 4 ohms. Can I run all 4 speakers using a and b channels on 8 ohms, or do you have a receiver you would recommend? Not looking to spend a bunch of money, just wondering what my options are! Thanks man!

[@SavingVegas]

I wouldn't recommend running them on A and B channels. I have learned the importance of impedance and overloading amplifiers the hard way. If I were you I would look for a bigger power amp thats in your price range to use for the 120s. Yes they are very efficient speakers and sound very good with just 100 watts to them, or in your case with a 100 watt at 8 ohm receiver it's probably capable of pushing a little but more than 100 watts, it may be closer to 110 or 115 watts at 4 ohms. Either way those 120s really come to life once you get north of that 200 watt range. Your Kenwood receiver would be sufficient power for the vs-80s and you could use the tape output on your Kenwood to feed signal to a separate power amp, preferably one with a gain adjustment on it so you can set volume levels separately for both speakers. That would would be a better cost effective option in my opinion.

[@BigJip]

@@SavingVegas so I could use one set of the av to feed an amp? And use the receiver to power the 8’s, and a 2 channel amp for the 12’s? Do you have a 2 channel amp you would recommend?

[@SavingVegas]

You could try using the tape output on your Kenwood to feed the signal to a separate power amp yes. As for choice of amplifier there are many options that would work great. Keep your eye open on used gear that comes up for sale, thats what I always do. Those speakers will take a ton of power and the cleaner the better. When I was looking for an amp for my 120s I ended up with an Adcom GFA-555. Price was right and came with matching pre amp. Just look up specs online when you see something you like and make sure its capable to drive 4 ohm loads. I would shoot for that 300 watt mark and at least be north of 200 watts. Be aware of amps with exaggerated wattage ratings.

[@BigJip]

@@SavingVegas just ordered a used crown xls-402! Hope it’s not too many watts for the VS-120’s! I bought a converter that gives me some preouts also. I’m going to do like you said and run the 120’s from the amp, and the VS-80’s from the receiver. Can’t wait to see what this amp does!

[@SavingVegas]

@@BigJipVery nice! I remember the first time I put real power to my 120s. You my friend are going to fall head over heals in love with those speakers when you get that amp hooked up. As for too much........nah, I have ran mine off of a Behringer EP1500 pro amp (450 watts rms per ch) and never had a problem. Maybe pick yourself up some 2.5 amp slow blow fuses lol. If you're careful and keep that damn bass knob centered you can really get some volume out of them like almost unbelievable. Everybody talks about the 15 inchers being able to take a butt load of power but the VS-120s are no slouch. The headroom is very nice to have to keep the power clean, watch those clip lights and enjoy 😉

[@derekboivin3288]

vs 120 is more on force of spl , while the at 12 are more on the quality side

[@HF-7DXM-6DXW-12]

Subscribed

[@JZ_Cars]

Great video!!! I wanted some AT 15s for as long as I can remember. I traded my EPIs for some D2s and then I ended up getting some VS 120s later on down the road. Still have the VS120 but just realized today the foam surrounds are toast after storing them for about the past 10 years. Curious what the best path forward is. I really want to keep them but not sure if it would just be easier to replace them altogether. Reached out to CV and they put me in contact with Speaker Exchange. I’m awaiting word from them on options. Do you have any suggestions? Are the new floor standing Vegas as good or better than the old ones?

[@SavingVegas]

I'm glad you enjoyed the vid. There are a few places to get new foam surrounds from. Simply Speakers, Speaker Exchange, Springfield Speakers, Amazon and Ebay have them as well. The foam needed for the VSW-12 woofer (which is the model number of the woofer for the VS-120s) are very common and are the same as many other 12 inch CV woofers. I have a few videos on refoaming speakers and there is also a lot of other videos on ut as well. Check them out and if you feel confident in doing ut yourself give it a shot. If you take your time they should turn out great!

[@JZ_Cars]

@@SavingVegas Thanks for the quick reply!!!! I might give it a shot. Do the mids typically rot as well? I checked mine but with that plastic grill on them it was difficult to tell. Will the grill separate easily?

[@SavingVegas]

The grill is glued to the basket of the mid. Sometimes they seperate easily and sometimes they are a little more difficult. The mid should not be an issue. Typically they have a cloth surround that will last a long time.

[@xtubalnet]

I have a pair of VS-150 and haven't hooked them up in about 9 years. I hesitate pairing the proper amp to these because of the 6 ohm rating. Is this a serious concern? Most amps I deal with are rated at 8 ohm. I have several Crest Audio and Peavey power amps I could use. What should I do?

[@SavingVegas]

The VS-150 actually has a nominal impedance of 4 ohms so your not wrong to be concerned about what amp to run them with. I have used many different amplifiers, integrated amplifiers and receivers with the 150s and most of them handled the load quite well. Many factors come into play here seeing as the impedance changes depending on the frequency being played. So the type of music being played can be harder on the amp if there's lots of bass involved and also if you like cranking them up that will also effect how the amp can handle them. I will always suggest using an amplifier that can handle low impedance loads over others but with that said it doesn't mean you can't use your typical AV receiver or amps that are only rated for 8 to 6 ohm loads. Either way you decide just make sure you are aware of the heat that is being generated by the amp especially when listening at higher volume levels. Most newer units will have a protection mode that cuts the amp out if too much heat is detected but not all will have this feature. I would recommend one of your pro amps simply because in most cases they handle low impedance loads very well over most typical home audio amps.

[@karendadd5118]

HI I HAVE A SET OF LS15 AND NOTICED THAT ONE SPEAKER MID AND TWEETER ARE NOT WORKING WONDER IF YOU KNOW WHAT IT MIGHT BE AND IF I CAN FIX THANK YOU ALSO I HAVE A SEGT OF VS12 AND ONE OF THE 12 INCH DRIVER IS NOT WORKING AND NOTICED THE SPEAKER ISNT FLEXING IF I PUSH ON IT ..ITS LOCKED INTIGHT WONDERING IF THE SPEAKER IS NO GOOD AND IF SO WHERE CAN I GET A NEW SPEAKER

[@williambanzhof9739]

EXCELLENT!

[@jankove2]

is it Ok to use woofer from 120 on AT 12??

[@tbone8839]

Do you happen to know if the AT series in black were only sold in Canada or something? I'm looking for a pair here in the states (AT-10's specifially) and i cannot find a single one in black. And every black AT on a google search is someone in Canada selling theirs.

[@SavingVegas]

Interesting, I have seen a few oak cabinet ATs for sale here but yeah for the most part they most I see are black. The last 2 sets I have had fornthe AT series were both black and later production (92' and 94').

[@toyotaguy75]

Can you tell the age by the serial number?

[@spenzee1722]

I have the vs120's and the dc1515's paired with a Nad receiver and amp they are great but they need new foam just struggling to get them in south africa their are some on eBay but i dont know if i can trust them can anybody help

[@SavingVegas]

The two companies I use are Simply Speakers and Speaker Exchange. They sell kits and all parts needed.

[@spenzee1722]

@@SavingVegas thank you will definitely check them out

[@GERALD_Featureworx]

I have the AT-12s and I’d like to make a better looking box for them. Any advise? Internal volumes, best wood for the job, etc?

[@SavingVegas]

Well I would aim to match the factory internal volume as well as port size and length. I would use 3/4" MDF because of its density. One thing I can suggest to improve from the original design is to build the cabinet with a sealed internal enclosure for the midrange.

[@georgesmith4639]

Does anyone happen to have or know where to locate Crossover schematic for the older (pre-1996) VS-120 models? I found the newer schematic with the 1996 update but the component values dont line up with the actual parts on the board. Thanks for any help.

[@nickb5091]

where can I get replacement fuse holders for the VS 120s? Also, in general, what’s a good site for general replacement parts for the speakers? Thanks!

[@SavingVegas]

Speaker Exchange has some used in good condition parts for Cerwin Vega stuff sometimes. I have yet to see just the fuse holder itself for sale, you would most likely have to buy the entire crossover assembly. Keep an eye on Ebay.

[@jorgem50]

Mr. SavingVegas, I have a question. I have a pair of Vega d5s and I am curious to know if I were to add new 3 way crossovers to each cabinet if it would make the sound better?

[@SavingVegas]

I have always wanted to get into building my own crossovers. I do plan on doing this in the near future to try things out. Of course there's always the option of buying pre made aftermarket crossover networks but I don't know how much better a generic aftermarket crossover would be. I always felt rebuilding the originals is the way to go. Especially if the crossover uses electrolytic capacitors because they usually only have a properly operating lifespan of 20 to 25 years or sometimes less. If you are handy with a soldering iron and can sorce out the proper values of new caps, the results of recapping the original crossover is the best option. Even if the caps are not bad upgrading them tends to help clean up the sound. In your case with a D5 the woofer is wired direct with no filtering, but it would clean up the sound from the tweeter a midrange. Newer caps will also have a tighter tolerance (depending on what caps you choose) than the old ones so you should be able to get a noticeable difference in sound quality. Even replacing resistors can help as well.

[@jorgem50]

@@SavingVegas Thank you for your reply. Two days ago I went ahead and did a complete upgrade of a pair of Bose 501 IV cabinets. I upgraded the woofer, mids and highs plus a brand new crossover. Let me just say the difference is night and day. They not only get louder but the sound is crispy and the bass is incredible. They are connected to an old JVC AX-44 receiver. My Vega d5s I will just leave alone.

[@SavingVegas]

I would recommend replacing the capacitors on the D5 crossovers.

[@richt7231]

Got a lead on a pair of at-12's for $50. Need refoam, and missing one grill. Thoughts?

[@SavingVegas]

For $50 buy them that's all I will say. Refoam is a fairly easy process and very satisfying when done.

[@nikhook1114]

You can sell them for $400 after repair however, once you listen to them, you will likely keep them.

[@anaxa4883]

Why didn't you compare the sound? Surly there are pluses and minuses to the sound of each that are worth talking about.

[@SavingVegas]

I know, at the time I made this video I didn't have any royalty free music to use in the video. I think there's enough interest to do a sound comparison video between these two. I just may have to do that soon.

[@anaxa4883]

@@SavingVegas I didn't mean recording both of them playing the same song - I honestly think most people don't get any value from those pointless kinds of videos. I meant just adding your subjective experience on how both of them sound. Like which has better bass, mids, highs, etc.

[@SavingVegas]

Ah I see. I thought I did give my opinion in that video but maybe not. I will say this, with having many hours listening to both of these the VS series has a much better low end response. When running them with my Yamaha CA-1010 I preferred the AT's over the VS overall.

[@anaxa4883]

@@SavingVegas Thanks for your insights. Which would you say has the best snare drum snap, vocal clarity, and high end sparkle?

[@SavingVegas]

I think both speakers hit that 100Hz to 200Hz very well. Which is probably right around where a snare drum would fall on the frequency spectrum. As for vocals the VS-120 crossover point where the midrange starts to roll in is 300Hz right at the at the lower end of your "vocal frequency". The AT-12's woofer to mid crossover point is 400Hz so demanding a little more from the woofer which really isn't a big deal. The AT demands the tweeter to reach further down the spectrum around 3kHz where the mid to tweeter crossover point is, which happens to be at the peak of vocal frequency. I don't know the individual speaker capabilities of each of these series but I think the VS is the better speaker.

[@stratkiller2531]

I'm in desperate need of a fuse cap for one of my cerwin vega SL28's any ideas?

[@SavingVegas]

No sorry I have never delt with the newer SL series

[@stevew321]

I love my AT-12s...

[@TommyboyGTP]

I saved a pair of VS-100's from the trash and refoamed the woofers from a Simply Speakers kit. They slap hard powered by my older Pioneer receiver.

[@SavingVegas]

That's awesome! I feel like some of the 10" model Vega's don't seem to get the credit they deserve. When I had some E-710s and LS-10s both running of my 200 watt per channel Adcom power amp they impressed everybody I showed them off to.

[@TommyboyGTP]

@@SavingVegas Glad i found your channel, subbed!

[@SavingVegas]

Much appreciated, I'm glad you enjoy the content.

[@pulpanochamaster]

Is that enough foam inside?

[@SavingVegas]

This is very common with most Vega's. Not very often you will see the entire cabinet covered. Some is better than none.

[@robertaucoin2651]

Hey man what fuse does the vs-120 use ? thanks

[@SavingVegas]

2.5 amp slow blow

[@123роо-в5ы]

Good video but bad foot in front of

[@lawxx6]

If you ever got your cones pushed in use a vacuum to suck them back out

[@SavingVegas]

My very first youtube video was actually on doing just that.

[@2nd_Channel]

If the VS-120 uses a Neodymium magnet, it is probably more powerfull than the big AT-12

[@SavingVegas]

Interesting, good to know. Thanks to the tweeter circuit breaker I have never blowen the tweeters when I push them with big power. I think underpowering these speakers and pushing the amp to clipping is the biggest reason people blow mids and tweets.

[@2nd_Channel]

@@SavingVegas Yes that's usualy what happens - small amplifires clip and kills the tweeter, way to big amp kills the woofer. I usually go with about 100W bigger amp if it's a big speaker, if it is a book shelf you don't really need more power than the speaker is rated for (they are almost always low power, so they vill handle a low poer amp that clips)

[@rubenp8750]

A neighbor was moving and put out a set of at-12s for the trash man. I quickly made a u turn and claimed them. Refoamed and now are ready for my man cave. I can’t believe he put them out! Cabs were in good condition.

[@SavingVegas]

Wow that's awesome. No better deal out there than that!

[@ericnortan9012]

What I have always thought was funny is when people say "party speaker" like it is a bad thing. Parties are good.

[@SavingVegas]

Yup my 120s stay in my shop, corner mounted on shelves about 7 feet up. My shop is 36'x36' with 16' walls and they never fail to impress. Drive these suckers with lots of clean power and they will put out. Prefect for parties 😆

[@ericnortan9012]

@@SavingVegas I have a Crown xli 2500 for my 15s. Nice clean AB power, and lots of it, sounds great for a pro amp.

[@thomasschafer7268]

😮😮😮erschreckend was man da gekauft hat. Blendwerk vor dem Herrn!!👎👎🇩🇪

[@user-hf4eh2ts3q]

why did cerwin vega take away the pots for the mid and tweeter anyway?

[@SavingVegas]

Some models had them and some didn't. Models like the VS and their Re for example didn't have them, both produced in the 90's and in the late 90's they had some models that did have them like the E7 series.

[@user-hf4eh2ts3q]

@@SavingVegas why do you think they didnt need them anymore?, cost?, audio equipment got better?,didnt care?

[@SavingVegas]

Cost most likely of they felt they weren't needed I not 100% sure really.