Cessna 172 30mph Direct Crosswind

Flaps 10-15, come in a little fast for better authority over controls and see what happens.

[@desertshooter007]

Great to have you walk us thru your 'go around' mentality, helps ease the nerves on short final i bet. Low time student pilot here and thanks for posting 👌

[@echosierraenroute]

talking your way through any situation is always really good self practice and especially for your CFI or DPE to hear where your head is at during the events.

[@JoshuaTootell]

Go around is always an option

[@peanuts2105]

Excellent decision making. I personally love a go-around. If in doubt, push the loud stick. BTW, you fly in a beautiful part of the world. Cherish it. Carry on.

[@harambevechain6899]

those gusts pushing your tail hard left during the go ground were wild.

[@hillcrestannie]

Great Video. I fly a C170 and I’m a low time pilot. Had to land on a narrow strip the other day with a 12 knot direct cross wind. VERY challenging!

[@echosierraenroute]

narrow when you're new is definitely something that really gets your focus. id love to own a 170B someday. direct is WAY different than a small x wind component! be careful and never let go of those corrections once you touch down. flaps over 15-20 in something like this is bad deal.

[@richardgreen7811]

Go get an Ole Pro to consult you. I'm not picking on this pilot, but just a few things. #1. He lined up on center-line for his approach. I always line up on the windward side in case you get a gust (which can take you all the way across the runway before touchdown). #2. He was fighting to maintain a level attitude over the numbers. I always have an upwind wing low and touch down on the upwind tire, then let the speed bleed off slowly and allow the plane to seek level as it slows. #3. More important than I originally thought ... you're not done flying yet during taxi. Make certain the aileron on a quartering/following wind is down. This keeps your wing from lifting as gusts occur while taxiing. Bush Pilots and Bank Pilots (check carriers) are a great resource for this kind of stuff.

[@johnmajane3731]

Good work, going somewhere else for a while is always a good strategy.

[@davidmeyer4192]

basically a test pilot

[@Matt-mo8sl]

28kts was the most I've pulled off in a 172 and it took 3 tries. I was going to ask the tower (jokingly) if i could land ACROSS the runway instead. At 300' wide and in that wind, i coulda done it. Nice video. Took me right back to that day.

[@echosierraenroute]

talk about a being in the zone moment. that woulda been fun landing across the runway with 30mph ground speed! good story man, cheers.

[@lw216316]

I take off and land diagonal and even 90 degrees across the runway often. Our runway is 400 feet long and 75 feet wide and I fly remote control airplanes !

[@true.north.aviation]

Great Job Man! That airport is a fun one to go into, I love going into there

[@TeachAManToAngle]

This was me 3 days ago in Oregon at my home airport. Fun but really got my heart pumping.

[@echosierraenroute]

It was rowdy. Stabilized GoPro footage makes it look alot more tame

[@TeachAManToAngle]

@@echosierraenrouteI bet! You had some massive yoke movement. Good video. Thank you for posting.

[@togacruiser]

A great video from a great pilot.

[@user-vi2ue6nf8c]

I had a 30 knot cross wind in my pa 12 super cub build, so I landed cross runway that was 150 ft wide. Took off cross runway in a hundred foot. There was a taxi straight across from me had I overran, but didn’t need it

[@flyer5769]

You're right. The heavy cross wind you do want to keep a little more speed. Now I'll let you in on what I was taught when I first went to Alaska. I was told to practice pulling flaps up upon touching or just before touching on landings. And on takeoff I was told to wait until the airplane got light usually or up in the white Ark. And then put the flaps down. Now this is just for excessive crosswinds practice. the Cessna 207's will easily handle 30kns straight across. If you pull the flaps up just before you touch. believe it or not the airplane does not fall out of the sky, or doesn't do anything weird, remember you're still in ground effect. Except it's far more stable on landing rollout. The airplane doesn't have that light feeling where it slides around. The gusty wind don't bother you anymore. It was a little different in Alaska because you had to get these people home. And the winds would go for weeks on end. And they don't have roads they can take as a backup in case the weather turned bad. They had to get home to bring the medicine and vittles everybody needs to live with. I don't know why this isn't taught to everybody. As PIC your supposed to have the ability to do whatever you need to make a safe landing. If they don't tell you all of your options-how are you expect to do your best. Remember you're in ground effect and pulling the flaps up isn't going to make airplane suddenly stopped flying. Now what I'm telling you is when you have no choice but to land in very high crosswinds. Flying GA is different than flying FAR135. Your not supposed to be taking any chances because of training and you can wait. Now that doesn't mean I went to the airport knowing the winds were that high. Never did that. But when I got there if the winds were high I give it a shot and found that it was fairly easy. But that's because I practice. So when the winds got high it was just a natural response. Again if you need to land above demonstrated cross wind speeds. Consider doing this with your flaps. But Cessna's are the only ones that are easy do this with. Because Cessna flaps go wherever the handle is positioned. So if the flaps are down 20% you want to raise them, all you have to do is lift the handle and put it in the raised position and the flaps will follow. But Piper or Beechcraft you need to hold the lever the whole time and this doesn't work as well. I'm not trying to change your flying I'm just trying to give you more possibilities for a safer landing. This really work for me. Believe it or not it even works better in the grand Caravan which I flew in Alaska as well.

[@sqd37l]

nothing wrong with going around. good job!

[@richardgreen7811]

Two incidents at El Paso International Airport during my 1st year as a pilot (1975) ... both in a Cessna 150. #1. While landing on Runway 26 on a breezy day, I learned about "mechanical convection's" when the wind whipping around the hanger area blew me completely away from the runway (150' wide) at an altitude of about 50'. Totally shaken, I went to the public phone at Southwest Air Rangers and called my ole flight instructor. For the next hour, we practiced cross-wind touch and go's. I became very proficient at it. One of the best things you can practice. #2. I was returning to El Paso from Deming, NM one day and noted a "major" wind direction and speed change on the East side of Franklin Mountain. I had contacted ATIS and couldn't believe the report. The wind was 50mph and coming right down Runway 26, where I was cleared on Runway 8. Fortunately for me it was a steady wind and my approach wasn't treacherous. It wasn't until I was close to the ground that I realized my airspeed read 70mph but my actual forward speed was less than 20mph. So weird I still remember it today. I touched down short of the numbers and just stopped directly in front of a Continental Airlines 727 and a Turbine Commander sitting on the apron. I immediately asked the tower if he wanted me to pull off at the apron or taxi to the 1st Runway Exit. He was in such disbelief that he stuttered for a second, then had me taxi to the 1st exit. That was a 10 on the weird-o-meter.

[@jakew9887]

Great example. Thanks

[@GoofballFlyer]

The 172 can do a 30 mph x-wind. The 152 can too. No flaps, long wide runway, 75 knots in the flare, full ailerons into the wind at touchdown, no brakes, coast to a turnoff, "fly" to the tiedown. Not easy if you have never done it. My instructor demo'd for me.

[@echosierraenroute]

the main concern here is the x wind component. ive landed in 30-40xwinds when its 40 -50 degrees or so. this one was direct 90 degrees, very different situation than a 45 degree x wind of same strength. if you have truly done what you are writing, those direct xwinds in a 172 especially 150 will lift the upwind wing off the ground and skid you sideways sitting still, not cool and stupid to interact with.

[@chrisprimavera7607]

Seeing as the max demonstrated crosswind in a C-172 is 15 kts, your "instructor" is an idiot.

[@bhc1892]

@@echosierraenroute Cool video. He's right, the plane can definitely do 30+ direct. That second approach would have worked, but no harm in working your way up to it. Props for getting out there and playing in it.

[@mkosmo]

@@echosierraenroute I've done >20kt direct cross exactly once in my Skyhawk. It was not pleasant... went around once, used the entirety of a 3900' runway the next try. And it ended up on youtube because somebody was recording that day! It probably wouldn't be so bad if those kinds of winds weren't always stupid gusty.

[@ricklederman]

I've landed my Stemme S12 self-launching motor glider with a direct crosswind 18kts gusting to 24 kts. Fortunately the runway was 150 ft wide so it was a bit easier even with the 82 ft wingspan of the Stemme. That was during my transition training after taking delivery of the S12 a couple days earlier. I never want to try that again though!

[@theOnly_Gatsby]

nice.

[@SMcda]

great video, that's a frisky xwind in all light GA planes, ESPECIALLY a 172. well done

[@echosierraenroute]

definitely! i was tempted to put it on the ground with the first few but the risk is just plain dumb. crazy how a field 8 miles north it was dead calm. thx

[@SMcda]

@@echosierraenroute yeh, very isolated local winds. you did the right thing, felt the wind all the way day. beneficial training for sure.

[@robertriggs75]

Yes i think its easier in a Cherokee - had to do 22G36 at 30 degrees and it was a challenge but doable

[@marshamcgowen6826]

Nice video....

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

Slips are your friends.

[@eonslimafoxtrotgolf1759]

Nice

[@brent1041]

Highest cross wind I’ve landed my LSA in was 36kts out of necessity. 22kts-26kts is usually where I call it and wait for a nicer day.

[@echosierraenroute]

spice

[@burritoboi6620]

Just got my PPL up at KMSO!

[@echosierraenroute]

Nice! My Instrument checkride is tomorrow with Perry B. Did he do your checkride?

[@joem.7307]

🙌🏼🙌🏼🤜🏼🤛🏼

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

20mph direct xw was max for me in C172. 29 mph in RV-10.

[@russhartley4964]

Been there done that many times. If there’s enough runway, and you have to find a long wide runway, I used partial flaps and add the speed to make it work. Got to continue to fly the plane all the way in to the tie downs.

[@echosierraenroute]

Setting down a 172 with 30kt direct 90° xwind typically has the plane skidding laterally on the tires and extremely hard to control on touch down and the slow down. Wouldn’t scoff it off as such a simple task. 30kt x wind with a smaller component maybe 45° sure no problem. This scenario you very well may need help getting the plane back and tied down safely and have to immediately turn it into the wind etc.

[@russhartley4964]

@@echosierraenroute not a single scoff in my comment. It’s a very demanding situation for all pilots in all aircraft types.

[@echosierraenroute]

agreed and understood, just that your first sentence can be perceived to imply such a thing. cheers@@russhartley4964

[@McStebb]

Awesome video. Question: how do you feel out when it's appropriate to put in the crosswind correction like you did at the end of the video? Do you wait for both wheels to touch down? What helps you know then to do that?

[@echosierraenroute]

in good practice, you are always keeping that upwind (right) wing lower as well as the right main wheel lower upon touchdown in strong x wind. in doing this the controls are going to be thumbs into the wind prior to and on touch down unless its crazy gusty and you have erratic micro adjustments, which happens alot too. with that happening, the moment touchdown is felt you are slowing and losing airpspeed fast and losing control authority so full deflection into the wind in strong xwinds is very necessary. if i had landed in the first attempt and not held corrections, the right wing and wheel would completely be lifted way high causing a dangerous situation. TLDR, youre holding them hopefully during the flare and especially during touchdown, landing upwind main first and holding them even stronger as you slow and lose control authority. what helps you know is just getting out there and starting small then working up, i remember a 5kt xwind scaring me and now i enjoy practice in 20-30 cheers

[@jimmydulin928]

I have never understood the reduction from full flaps and faster airspeed for crosswind component. We have to decelerate to well below Vso for the wing to quit flying. That can be done early or late. Late can become its own problem, which we don't really need. Wind management would assume we land slower in a headwind component than in a no wind or downwind situation. That seems not to happen, however, and crosswind can be blamed rather than poor wind management. I flew the 172 on pipeline patrol for 10,000 hours in all wind conditions. Because my default landing included full flaps and deceleration on short final bring throttle fully into dynamic control of glide angle and rate of descent and because I default used dynamic proactive rudder to bracket (nail) the centerline between my legs and because I used the apparent rate of closure with the numbers to further decelerate coming into high ground effect, I always arrived at the numbers all slowed up and ready to squat as Wolfgang put it in Stick and Rudder. Given say 40 mph direct crosswind, which would give me say 20 mph of headwind component if I angled into it, I simply angled across the runway from the downwind corner to the upwind large airplane touchdown zone white square. In only a couple hundred feet of the thousand feet available, I would come to a complete stop without use of brakes. The wind is our friend if we manage it.

[@echosierraenroute]

in high xwind small plane situations, flaps beyond 20 becomes dangerous as it gives the wind so much more authority to throw the plane off in erratic small shifts when you are so close to the ground. it changes the wing acting as a kite force dramatically on that upwind wing that could violently toss it up much harder than if it had no flaps or 10deg. its windy, you likely already have the airpeed so factor in your gust factor and come in a little faster etc. the go around i did i would probably truly land in that with 0flaps or maybe 10deg.

[@jimmydulin928]

When a gust just flips a plane, what really happens is that aileron rather than rudder is used first to level the wing. This just slows the down wing more and yaws it back, thus the flip. If we muscle memory dynamic proactive rudder (walk the rudder pedals) and lead rudder when we need to turn, we avoid this. The gust may cause greater lift on one wing, but it does not turn the airplane. If we use the steering wheel we do nothing to end bank and yaw the nose the wrong way. If throttle is already dynamic, we can easily use more for sink and less for balloon. In strong gusts, all and then adjust for sink and close and then adjust for balloon. Much less damage, and fewer fatalities, occur at 20 mph ground speed than at 60 mph or greater. We lose pilots who go faster in a headwind component than in a no wind component.@@echosierraenroute

[@EricEsser]

Well, you have 20x more time than me, but a couple of things. A “40 mph direct crosswind” does not have a “20 mph headwind component”, it has a zero mph headwind component. Nevertheless there are at least two reasons why a pilot with perhaps less stick and rudder than a 10k hour pilot might have should follow the POH for crosswind landings and not use full flaps- higher approach (and touchdown/stall to runway) speed gives you more rudder authority to counteract the crosswind, and at full flaps the downwash from the wing can reduce elevator authority especially in cross controlled situations, which is exactly what you’ll be in as you transition to forward slip in a high crosswind.

[@yamkaw346]

What model 172? Never seen one with those bars over the windshield

[@echosierraenroute]

It’s an India model, this one is unique as it was a factory floatplane model kit from Cessna. All Cessna floatplanes have those bars required by an STC for structural rigidity.

[@rinzler9775]

If the wind was any faster you could have hovered it down sideways.

[@Never_get_off_the_boat]

Where’d you do your float plane private ? Talkeetna or Moose Pass?

[@echosierraenroute]

I got my float rating with James at Seaplane Scenics on Lake Washington outside Seattle. He got it done for me quick which was cool. Flying floats is infinitely more fun than wheels!

[@markor2476]

Why do you yank the yoke so much?

[@georgehunter2813]

Pilot flew mostly straight down the runway because he wasn't going to actually touch down. If he were to settle into a landing he would have to point the nose toward the wind and fly severely sideways in cross-control. It's amazing that airliners do this when they touch down without snapping the landing gears in crosswinds.

[@lucasbeebe5349]

What’s your reasoning for “poking” at the controls?

[@echosierraenroute]

the constant nudging the nose down on the yoke forward? i think i do that during periods of aggressive wind/gusts acting on the plane to keep a constant attitude as im coming in, especially so the nose doesnt ballon (from gusts) up if theres a risk of windshear and sudden drop in lift where higher aoa is dangerous. these winds were really intense, footage doesnt make it look that way, but watching myself again i think i do it to keep punching the nose low and never let it get high with such strong gusts. good question

[@Kaktus965]

@@echosierraenroute There’s no need to pump the controls that way though. Did someone train you that way? In effect it made your job more difficult. In addition to the gusts, you also had to work against your own PIOs.

[@echosierraenroute]

main thing to be observed is the attitude im achieving during all the yoke pumping. stare at the cowling relationship with the horizon during the entire approach, it stays pretty fixed which is where all this "pumping" is coming from. these winds had some shear and were violent. attitude stays quite fixed for the conditions from all the forward/back yoke movement. no its just weird instinct habit. keep in mind this gopro is stabilized a ton, it was very rowdy in the plane, yoke should look erratic in a skyhawk with 30kt direct.@@Kaktus965

[@EricEsser]

So, with respect, I’m not sure I’d spread the idea that “90 degree crosswinds are a whole different ball game”. The crosswind component even of a 45 degree crosswind is a full 75% of total wind. Even a 30 degree crosswind is 50% of the total wind. So it’s not the 90 degree part that’s significant here, it’s the 30 knot part. Even if the crosswind component was 30 degrees that would be a 15 knot crosswind component which is the max demonstrated for the 172 as listed in the POH. I’d say it’s more like 90 degree and 45 degree are basically the same ballgame, and any high wind situation with a crosswind component calls for clear understanding of the crosswind math, pilot caution, and good technique.

[@muhammadsteinberg]

@EricEsser The demonstrated 15kt crosswind in the 172 POH is not a limitation.

[@crjetpilot]

Too much yanking on those controls.

[@echosierraenroute]

Very stabilized go pro footage. It was rowdy air. But yeah not sure why I pulse the nose down like that. Keeping nose low with wind shear factor in my spectrum brain Go try 30kt direct with skyhawk!

[@crjetpilot]

@@echosierraenroute been there a few times! Lol

[@JB-nt5lu]

Not worth posting. *yawwwn*

[@echosierraenroute]

Okay boomer