CFI-NYC | Michael Shermer: The Believing Brain

[@Phobos_Anomaly]

Michael Shermer is one of my favorite educators. He is my role model as a skeptic. He really makes you question your own thinking. I have had the priviledge of reading this book, and it is fantastic, and his others are great reads too. In fact, if there is anyone who calls attention to Richard Feynman's quote that the easiest person to fool is yourself, its Michael Shermer. My favorite quote from him: "The reason that smart people believe stupid things is because they are very skilled at defending ideas that they arrived at using non-smart methods." -Michael Shermer describes me to a T, back when I was an Evangelical Christian and a fan of apologetics.

[@Phobos_Anomaly]

***** to what are you referring?

[@Phobos_Anomaly]

***** oh that crap. From what I understand they were just baseless accusations by PZ Myers and there is no real evidence to support the claim.

[@Phobos_Anomaly]

***** well I would hesitate to pass judgement so soon IMO. Perhaps my personal admiration of shermer is clouding my thinking but I never like to make knee jerk decisions in these cases anyway.

[@jeffcolorado]

***** Could you point me to some opinions outside of the 'freethought' community regarding this, please?

[@marcocalarco7575]

Tim Woodacre Shermer is a horse's ass - he often violates logic in his blanket pronouncements and CSIOP has been accused of being a cia front group doing disino esp re ufos. Makes sense to me they might be co opted. The truth is that science and metaphysics are going to blend some day soon because physical reality is a small part of what we are entangled in. People like Tesla were already there. Serious research and funding for psi stuff has been miniscule.

[@barefootID]

THANK YOU FOR UPLOADING THIS! Shermer is REALLY fantastic!!!! Thank you so much for sharing!

[@Poetikaliz]

I'm on page 135 of The BB and I am fascinated by the context of the book. It makes for a somewhat interesting self help book in what not to believe anymore!!!!

[@lazurm]

He had mentioned his "racing days", referring to the time he participated in RAAM, the Race Across America, one of the most difficult bicycling races on Earth. A medical term:Shermer's Neck came out from this event. Named after Michael Shermer, this malady results from one's position on a bicycle where, after overuse, one loses the muscle functions in the neck rendering them incapable of supporting the head.Yes,Mr. Shermer suffered from this greatly,but still finished. Amazing, interesting life.

[@chrlpolk]

I had the experience of laying in bed and seeing the statuettes on my chest of drawers wiggle around, almost life-like attempts to move, everytime I started closing my eyes. Because I was so deprivated of sleep, I was convinced that they were waiting for me to fall asleep! That was the most logical conclusion, until after a full night of rest (which was initially hard to get, out of paranoia of what my statuettes were up to while I slept!)

[@valsopuseight]

Messner summited Everest twice without using supplemental oxygen. He also was the first to climb all 8,000 meter peaks.

[@sambutler9927]

And you wonder why they think we have no immaterial mind. People like you come along and prove it to them on a daily basis.

[@Ematched]

@alokprakash demonstrate that "nothing" ever existed and list it's properties and potentialities, so that we may assess whether "something can come from nothing."

[@centerforinquiry]

Correction: Michael Shermer is not executive director of NYC Skeptics, but of Skeptics Society. Our apologies.

[@mygad]

Brilliant discussion, getting this book for my Kindle now.

[@SmokerBuddy]

I laughed when he said "Sort of like the Tea Partiers, except (ahem) we're right." Not because I disagree with him but because the Tea Party is "right," in a different (and far worse) sense of the word. How high I am probably has a little something to do with the laughter, as well. Shermer is the man and Skeptic Magazine is awesome.

[@ZachRose88]

This is great! Thanks. I'm going to buy this book for sure.

[@selinakyle4054]

And great talk btw :) When Shermer compares the height of N Koreans vs S. Koreans is he saying that opppression can make people physically shorter?

[@BattousaiHBr]

thank you, sir. adding up, the latest example of that was the higgs boson which was only proved in 2012 but the scientist community was pretty much sure it was there even decades ago.

[@MetalAnimeSword]

This video is too short. Please upload more =)

[@PaulHarrisonVideos]

Given all of the interesting subjects Shermer covers in his book, notice in the question and answer period that God and religion are still the most popular topics of interest.

[@MariposaRedimida]

I would like to ask Micaehl Shermer, how do you explain something like what I have, which I still don't know what it is: panic attacks. Doctor's haven't found anything wrong in my body, I have tried alternative medicines, I have prayed to God, I have tried positive thinking, ten years have passed, and I still FEEL I can't breathe, is it NOT REAL? Why do I feel it?

[@jacopman]

I pushed myself in a job once for over 48 hours staying awake without any mind altering chemicals and while fighting off sleep in the last couple hours of my driving I saw all kinds of strange things crossing the hightway...........from cartoon characters to bizarre monsters, angels.....you name it. I knew it was the result of sleep deprivation but if I didn't know that I would swear to others under oath that I saw them and they were real.

[@water0xFF]

which part exactly of zeitgesit the movie you dont disagree?

[@jacopman]

You are welcome...........stay curious and study especially what is coming out of the LNC...........confirming the HB will be huge in its application someday to technology we may not live to see that but creating something out of quantum vacuum at will would end any resource problems.......that is the potential of such discoveries. It is a tragic that this was not built in the US............the discoveries will leave us in the dust.

[@TheAnubisDrake]

I once stayed awake for 6 days and 7 nights for an ROTC function. By the end of it everyone was invisible to me unless they were directly interacting with me. One of the strangest experiences of my life. Though in no way supernatural.

[@awesomeluciano78]

Interesting :) thanks for uploading

[@D3nchanter]

Where is that study and what is the sample size?

[@josephgoodrich]

GREAT TALK!

[@Discern4]

I would be more inclined to say it's a psychological effect on the person sneaking up. They are focused on the back of the guy's head, they get nervous thinking he's going to turn around at the last minute, then they get sloppy and screw up the attack.

[@MyContext]

I will leave the concept life (lots of different interpretations) untouched for the moment. However, I am challenging the notion of free will as well as what is a mind. If we do create a machine capable of emulating a person. It would be clear that free will is indeed an illusion directed solely by processes (algorithms)...analogous to the complex chemical processes of the brain (an aspect of which we call mind). I contend that this would prove the idea of free will to be illusion.

[@coolgreyoneabby]

@reefergladness So is your theory that Lee Harvey Oswald did not do it alone or that he didn't do it at all?

[@QueFregados]

I'm sure you don't have a choice in the ad shown before your video but I thought it was a little odd that I just saw a Levi ad that mentioned god a few times. Regardless, brilliant speaker :)

[@josephgoodrich]

Shermer is Rock and Roll. (That's a metaphor, folks.)

[@Godslayer1975]

sure more like left wing garbage of lets blame everything from TV to music instead of blaming the people who are weak and do the stupid shit but thats left way blame programs tv anything . funny 80% of people who watched x files and near 100 % who worked on it that i dealt with and i dealt with thousands did not believe in any of the BS on the show , unlike liars like this who take a show and act like they know if you watch it you must think its real and he has no facts or study in that point . no i dont either but i did work on set for years on x files and few other shows filmed in Vancouver so i have bit more knowledge on there fans and the other workers and it makes me sick when here made up garbage like this its same as if he says all super girl watchers think there is a super alien on this planet its pathetic

[@proslice56]

When people don't believe in god anymore...god ceases to exist. When there is no more god to believe in, human beings grow with knowledge and wisdom. It is at this point as an intelligent specie we regain our human dignity and moral superiority.

[@Mercerium]

oh wow i was just laying listening didnt even notice it was an hour

[@neilmcintosh5150]

I am a retired British Army Colonel and during my service in the forces we were trained in the art of how to sneak up behind the enemy and carry out a suprise attack on any given individual. We were taught NOT to LOOK anywhere at the individual's back, especially the back of their head. Reason being that 9 out of 10 assaults fail due to sneaking up behind someone and LOOKING at the back of their head. Conclusion; you are compromised because the enemy can SENSE being stared at from behind. Spooky

[@neilmcintosh5150]

I agree entirely, only I would make a slight concession and say that I wish we could listen to Michael Shermer with the voice and cadence of Christopher Hitchins. Hitch, now their's a wordsmith if ever they were one!

[@werecow2003]

@FaganRoberts Libertarians generally seem to be reluctant to accept AGW. That's not a huge surprise, since this problem is particularly hard to solve without government intervention. "Believing" in AGW doesn't require faith, just a willingness to put in the effort and educate oneself on the science - which takes a lot of time, since the subject matter is so broad. Reading through the literature, though, you'll eventually find there's really no sense denying the reality of the issue.

[@MyContext]

Currently, all life as we know it are chemical processes revolving around carbon as a major element in the process. So, I ask you - IF we make machines capable of intellectual and physical interactions on par with the average person, would you consider such a machine to have a mind or to have free will? What would your notions be if we get to the point where we can make such things?

[@BattousaiHBr]

just because there is no meaningful way to experience nothingness doesnt mean it isnt out there. just like there is no way to experience another universe in the multiverse doesnt mean it isnt out there. saying something is completely out of reach to even test directly for its existence is very different from saying its a myth.

[@amandine512]

I wish we could listen to Michael Shermer speak about this with the voice and cadence of Sam Harris.

[@MyContext]

I don't see you objection as valid, however, to move things along... What is free will such that it is NOT deterministic? Since, I find nothing about our existence that is not intrinsically deterministic. - Note: Free will, mind, life, money, etc. are concepts as such it is questionable to consider any of them as existent. They are descriptors of various notions.

[@frightenedsoul]

I don't think you understood my point. The point isn't whether or not that definition is true (it does seems to be fairly accurate). The point is that that definition, although it might be accurate, it isn't universally accepted. If it was universally accepted, my psychology textbook would surely mention this definition, correct? The word "mind" originally referred to a DISembodied part of a person, although this new definition is accurate, it isn't UNIVERSALLY accepted.

[@mbalagueraj]

First Goedel's theorem: every "knowledge" is always based on a believing.

[@sambutler9927]

Hmm, I didn't catch that quote. I mean, I go back to 'words are slippery things'. If consciousness can indeed be reduced to the list of things that Shermer said it was (which is what I suspect), it's still consciousness, and still mind. That's like saying that chocolate isn't chocolate because it's composed of various alkaloids, monosaccharides, lipids, etc. That's just silly - emergent systems are still emergent systems, even if they can be reduced to basic components.

[@RebeccaMorningstar]

I don't think he's really an eliminative materialist, but more of a reductive materialist or a behaviorist. Reductionists hold that what we call pain is the stimuluation of certain neurons, etc, while eliminativists oppose even using "folk psychology" terms.

[@MyContext]

Scientific image is about reality. Our perceptual notions can be fooled and we use a multitude of other pieces of information to get past our various limitations. If you are claiming that free will is only a perceptual notion (illusion), then we are in agreement. If you are claiming that free will is reflective of reality, then please present what you are claiming as free will. Since, it seems that EVERY aspect of our choices at any dimension is deterministic - leaving free will as illusion.

[@D3nchanter]

That has been done. Vacuum theory, the big bang theory, abiogenesis ( not exactly from nothing). And you actually have to be really careful about what you mean by nothing, because as it currently stands even empty space isn't really nothing.

[@alokprakash6492]

Science requires some control variable, repeatability, predictions and applies to vast areas of our everyday experience. However, not every thing is deterministic, repeatable. And, some questions will forever remain beyond science - How did somehing come from nothing?

[@D3nchanter]

From what I can surmise we won't know if we can't know until we do not know. Even what science cannot answer it manages to do well ( Heisenberg uncertainty principle).

[@AgusPcb]

Inspired

[@TurboDally]

@glennd7962 Which again is looking at everything at the simplistic/black&white approach e.g: A: govt = good, company = bad! B: govt= bad, company= good! This is not how I see issues, though I've already pointed this out, you seem to still play the same game and I expected it.

[@kingrobert1st]

There is a priest in Zeeland, Nederland who doesn't believe in God which worries me because I can't find anything wrong with believing in something that doesn't exist. It would be like a magician who says: "I don't believe in Magic" or a romanticist who says: "I don't believe in Love".

[@guntherleonhardt9425]

If people would only believe instead of trying to impose changes to legislation based on their irrational beliefs, there wouldn't be a problem. Your comparison is wrong, by the way. You can actually witness proof that love really exists. God fails the burden of proof every time.

[@kingrobert1st]

Gunther Leonhardt Yes and you can actually witness that magic exists too!

[@jeffcolorado]

+King Robert For me, it would be wrong to believe in something that has no evidence for its existence. I'm also a magician, and do not believe in 'magic'. I believe illusions can be created which appear to be magical, though.

[@kingrobert1st]

+Jeff B Magic does not need evidence!

[@jeffcolorado]

It does if you want to convince me it exists. A belief without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

[@sambutler9927]

They're talking about the ludicrous immaterial concepts of mind & free will. And we can't explain free will, at all. It's been a problem in philosophy since people started asking questions.

[@CdrRogue]

But the universe isn't slave to our failures of language. Unfortunately the word Universe has become a bit fuzzy due to the philosophical and theoretical nature of it all. In multiverse theory, the term universe tends to refer to our "bubble" of spacetime, rather than "all that exists". Universe could be used to describe the multiverse, but that often leads to more confusion.

[@Vorgaloth]

Watch Lawrence Krauss's lecture "A Universe From Nothing".

[@ItsJakeTheBrake]

That has been researched and is found to be wrong. Someone guessing if he's being stared at from behind or not is doing just that, guessing. If the person staring is not in the field of view the person stared at is unlikely to notice it.

[@reefergladness]

@coolgreyoneabby LBJ.. he enlisted the help of a few buddies like his long-time neighbour J. Edgar Hoover; personal friend Edwardo Clark (a powerful lawyer/mover and shaker); Cord Meyer of the CIA and at least one of the gunmen was a deputy sheriff from the DPD named Harry Weatherford.. Johnson had the most gain from his death - and the most to lose.. had Kennedy lived.. a man named Barr McLelland lays it all out in his book.. also of interest is CIA lifer (and Watergate burglar) Howard Hunt

[@SovincPeter]

It is difficult to do hard work and get real structured knowledge, based on evidence. Step by step, no wild guesses. It takes at least a decade of hard study to get any proper knowledge (in any field). On other hand, it is very easy to listen to some “big story”, how main stream got it all wrong, how there was a cover up, how life could be so much better if some knowledge would not be suppressed…. and instantly get a feeling "I am so much smarter than “them”, I know what is going on"

[@redtihor1]

I'm not a Mathematician by any stretch of the word but I don't think that's what Gödel's first incompleteness theorem states...

[@ponhand]

Interestingly simpleminded :)))

[@MtgVeteran]

Thumbs up in Colbert brought you here.

[@selinakyle4054]

Even The Animal Planet has a show about ghosts and hauntings.You'd think it would be safe there.

[@berrytrl1]

Here, let me try this. The words you say are empty. They are meaningless, they are nothing. That's exactly why we love them so much. They take us out of our modes of thought. See, I can say stupid things as retorts too. Good for you.

[@LOCOMOTIONNUMBER1]

Yes, but they never found out the scumbags that vandalised the Blue Peter garden. Percy Thrower went to his gave a broken man.

[@reefergladness]

i'm a bit skeptical about skepticism..

[@coldmountain1986]

Shermer's eliminative materialism should be regarded as fanatical (see at about 21 and 54 minutes in). It's discouraging to see him received so well.

[@Tsnore]

The hindsight bias seems to drive conspiracy-loving minds.

[@reefergladness]

@coolgreyoneabby the evidence? it's all coming out in my book! Oswald's prints were not found on the Manlicher-Carcanno - no prints were ! At leqast by the FBI's initial examination; however, (miraculously) Oswald's palm print WAS found.. about 72hours later.. (it's nearly impossible to take prints from a 'stiff' due to rigor-mortis).. a nitrate test was performed on Oswald's hands (before he was conveniently killed by Ruby) - it came back negative.. cont...

[@Ubaby_Hey]

..."either it's science or it's nothing" lol :D

[@ECabot22]

@edd345 Not true. 207 persons are skeptical of him, because they're skeptical in general. :)

[@serephim56]

thank you Michael for all your brilliant work and for sharing that insight with us all. As u well know it ain't easy to live among all these stupid idiots living an unquestioned life. so thanx again for sharing truth as we can know it n lets get this revolutionary evolutionary knowledge movement going !

[@GoblinWeenog]

some good information. but alittle overly skeptic for my taste. i like to keep an open mind and refer from from placing definite truths or falsehoods lables on most of my world views. i'd like to hear this man talk about the paradoxical elements quantum physics has on our accepted world views.

[@Enyce1011]

Wrong, what failed was his delivery in what he was saying. not the crowd itself, their quietness is the result of his awkwardness.

[@coldmountain1986]

@isleofyew1 I think materialism is a metaphysical commitment and as such adds nothing to empirical reality. We can just as easily do without the Cartesian concept of matter, or mind, for that matter. We'd do better without any kind of dualism, whether explicit or implicit. Materialism belongs to the latter.

[@lonewolfmtnz]

How is it that CFI-NYC can't figure out/locate someone who knows what a microphone is and how to connect/deploy same? FKN HUH?

[@vinylsoup]

good talk...horrible camera and sound work

[@leinadolso]

Deepak know where the "mind" is, so when we all die. This is where we will end up: 0:21:57

[@MyContext]

"dimension of meaning which has no physical limitations" - This is not true given what we understand about various cognitive issues.

[@hopperthemarxist8533]

Loved the talk but I think Michael goes out of his way to bash people and basically thump his chest. This work has been done by others Mike. A little humility is in order.

[@vovomtb]

The "knowledge" is based on evidence.

[@FaganRoberts]

@glennd7962 Agreed. Well stated.

[@isleofyew1]

Born sceptic, born rational thinkers vs born believers, born more or less irrational thinkers : I saw, some years ago, a BBC doc. about identical twins. They where pretty convinced from decent research that these things are DNA based since Identical twins, separated from birth were both, once grownup and independent, rational sceptic thinkers or irrational believers no matter what kind of people raised them. Personally I believe as a materialist also there is no mind and no free will at all.

[@chrlpolk]

Evidence such as...?

[@coolgreyoneabby]

@SaveTheWorldRadio JonasSalk is correct. I have all his books and have met him in person. He has many stories of his undergrad years, post graduate work and such. You don't know what you are talking about.

[@MyContext]

I left the notion of life (lots of different notions) alone, just focusing on free will notion... - "...possibly determined w/ a bit of random noise" - ??? What is the "possibly determined" and what is the "random noise"? - "that is not the same as saying free will is an illusion" - Very close... - "compatibilist" - I have heard the claim, but it makes no sense... One can't claim "free choice", when it is determined by all manner of forces in operation...

[@frightenedsoul]

"An embodied and relational process that regulates the flow of energy and information" That's just the definition that that ONE guy came up with after the word already existed. So he tried to give a nonsense word some sense by basically saying the mind is something the brain uses to control and filter information. This definition is not universally accepted nor is it well defined.

[@berrytrl1]

If that's not direct evidence, then what do you consider direct evidence? Evidence beyond evidence? Meta-dence? Just because a term is a placeholder, which is what you claim, doesn't mean there isn't evidence. We only know much of physics through such types of observation. We only know things about what goes in electronics due to these kinds of observations, but somehow, we made electronic circuits that allow computers to run from such observations. Odd, huh?

[@BattousaiHBr]

first of all, dont play dumb, you know i meant "admit" as in "acknowledges" secondly, WHAT? we didnt "invent" stuff to account for other stuff. we have PLENTY of evidence for dark matter and about halfway through understanding it. as for dark energy, we've known its there since Hubble. Einstein did indeed "invent" a constant to fit the data in his equations, but Hubble found out not long after the cause of expansion. the terms "DE" and "DM" are merely placeholders for what we KNOW is there.

[@BattousaiHBr]

1- Our understanding of words change as generations go by. Scientists themselves came up with the word "multiverse" to better describe what it might be. It doesn't matter if you or me don't think it makes sense, because the people that actually study it and actually work on it think it makes sense. 2- Care to prove your second statement?

[@BigIdeaSeeker]

I want to be first to comment but I don't have an hour to watch this whole thing right now. So if I say anything it'd be irrelevant but if I wait until after I watch it I may not be first any longer. Having said all that, "First!"

[@coolgreyoneabby]

@reefergladness Your story is what the conspiracy theorist would have us believe, but what is the evidence that Oswald fired no shots? That he was an FBI or CIA informant?

[@pn558]

Joshua- do not call conspiracy what these peoples call conspiracy...

[@AdrianCalgary]

Michael Shermer is great for what is doing, but I wish he would bring up newer examples and jokes and all that good stuff. This one with Lucy (and others) he keeps repeating at all of his appearances.

[@BattousaiHBr]

are yoy saying string theory or the multiverse are myths? we cant hope to directly detect for it nor are there any evidence to support these ideas, yet some mathematical calculations point out that maybe its true after all. "believing something exists BASED ON MATHEMATICAL PREDICTIONS, however lack of evidence or way of detecting or experiencing it is NOT called a myth my friend. :)"

[@MyContext]

You presented the idea that meaning has no physical limits, however, our understanding of mental defects resulting in various cognitive disabilities does correlate to physical limits. Although, I grant that our ability to measure is poor at this time.

[@PositivelyTakingCare]

I see a use of humor. When the audience can laugh with you, they are more prone to accept and/or retain information that is accompanied with a good feeling. Having conflict with the statement: "It's ether science or nothing". That is the same as saying it is man's understanding or nothing. The funny thing about such a notion is that at one time man thought we knew the world was flat. If what we think we know can be wrong than how can it be all there is?

[@laalki80]

Shermer rules.

[@D3nchanter]

So you don't actually have the evidence for what you claim? I can't say I am surprised. I've never heard of any evidence along these lines, and frankly I doubt that that phenomena occurs because someone looks at the back of a subjects head. I hope the study you'll actually link has some rigorous controls in place.

[@edd345]

1 person is sceptical of Michael Shermer

[@saintlybastard]

Maybe the audience are all Vulcans like that first guy?

[@waltermh111]

The only thing I would have to say, and I am not defending anybody here, but if we are to go on useful info, his comparison of N Korea to S Korea for benefit of democracy, its hard to say when N Korea is sanctioned to high heavens and height has nothing to do with anything. He doesnt need to try so hard and as a result make bad analogies.

[@GrinOlle123]

@MariposaRedimida We dont have answers for everything, therefore people created 'God'.

[@Dieuaimebeethoven]

The cost/benefit equation sounds nice in theory. Logically, it should work. But as evidenced by history, humans do not think logically. On a very basic, familial level (be it an extension of the family, like the tribe, neighborhood, or state) we will cooperate with one another with minimal coercion. But the threat of death isn't nearly as big of a deterrent to rapine & plunder as one might think, especially when money &/or religion is involved. People are willing to go to great lengths to enrich themselves at the expense of others, danger be damned. And fanaticism & self-rightenous can break down critical thinking altogether. The tribe also reduces the chances of any individual death -- mob mentality. There is also a correlation with the standard of living. If a people are in dire straits, they'll be far more likely to resort to antisocial behavior than those of us living in comfort. And from a biological perspective, testosterone & adrenaline can also affect men's behavior in rather extreme ways. Never mind adding things to fight for into the equation, like finite resources, or the natural fear we display when encountering alien peoples. At the very least, the equation & threat of death never compelled Genghis Khan, or the Vikings, or the Hatfields & McCoys, or the East India Company, or the Sunnis & Shias to cooperate with their neighbors. It didn't stop slavery, or serfdom, or tyranny, etc. The history books, and indeed the modern world, are littered with examples. Our urge to lord it over others for the benefit of the tribe is far stronger than our urge to cooperate with strangers. Otherwise there wouldn't be tribes or nations at all.