Chainless Vs Chain Vs OChain | Which One Makes You Faster?

[@freedomcoast]

We have a local trail that is fast and flowy with tight turns all the way down. We started experimenting with runs where we were not allowed to pedal. (I know its not chainless, but it makes you have to carry as much speed as possible since you cant pedal out of the corners) The mental shift was amazing, and we all ended up with times within a few seconds of our pedaling times. I know that's not what this video was about really but it just shows how much speed is actually available on a trail. Also, I think Neil rides like we all think we ride in our minds...fun to watch.

[@dylan-5287]

Watching Neil ride is the best, so fast and smooth. I've always heard how different the bike can feel without the chain, I've always meant to try that at some point.

[@jeroenberger9064]

Training makes you faster

[@MB-jz3uu]

Thank you captain obvious

[@fradland2784]

What about chaining

[@DavidFoundCo]

Facts will make the lazy hate you 😂😂

[@n8_vel868]

People be like get this bike, get this wheel size, get these type of tires, get this type of drivetrain, itl make you faster. I think if you train more than change parts out on your bike, that would make you faster🤯

[@jeroenberger9064]

@@DavidFoundCo 😂😂😂😁

[@PeakTorque]

Buys high engagement rear hub, buys ochain to decouple the increased kickback caused by the hub. The biggest round circle of marketing pointlessness in MTB!

[@rotaryjesus9606]

I run an o-chain. It takes some mental adjustment imo. The place I saw a big advantage was choppy areas and choppy braking surfaces (more composed and braking grip = faster and braking later). It gave me more range of suspension adjustment, which resulted in more grip as well. I tended to over-brake initially and once I adapted and changed suspension settings I could carry even more speed and brake much later. It probably depends a bit on the bike as well. I didn't see too many sections on this test track that would have benefited as much as my local trails. I think more time and tweaking is required - but it's not life changing. 1-3 seconds per minute of trail is probably what I'd expect in most cases. I think another factor is fatigue and composure. I feel a bit less beaten up at the end of a run at the same effort. Again... not life changing... but... if you go back to a regular chain ring it's harder to adjust. It becomes pretty obvious what the o-chain is doing at that point.

[@yycmtbr5087]

Neil you’re such a great ambassador for the sport! Keep the videos coming.

[@riderCraig]

I think this test needs to be done with absolutely no pedaling even with a chain. This will show the direct effect a chain has on the drivetrain without the advantage of being able to pedal.

[@DavidFoundCo]

I disagree. For testing without variables it makes sense but in the real world the point of the chain is to pedal and that’s how most people would use it

[@staticshok3056]

Love watching Neil shred, inspiring

[@gmbn]

For sure! Neil has got insane technique.

[@ssjj9584]

What’s the difference between OChain and lower engagement hub? With OChain can you still feel instant engagement when pedaling with high engagement hub but it also gives rearward play for the suspension?

[@bentrudell297]

This... was going to ask the same. Seems like this would counteract the benefits of high end hubs, why not just save money on a lower engament hub and not have to buy an extra product?

[@BigBanana55]

@@bentrudell297 Does indeed seem somewhat convoluted. However, with o chain you have a pleathora of adjustment. so one day lots of float, then the next minimal rotation. meaning you can ethier keep the benefits of the high POE hub, or go full 12 degree float- very useful for different tracks.

[@bentrudell297]

@UserBanana yeah I guess I could see if you wanted high engagement for a trail with a lot of technical climb sections, and suspension benefits on more downhill heavy days... probably not for the average rider though.

[@EV_Jojo]

I'm using OChain in my E-Bike and I feel the biggest advantage in rough conditions while cornering. I feel the suspension works smoother and the feet on the pedals are quieter, so less unsettling and more confidence to ride corners faster. Overall it's more noticeable, than I thought and expected.

[@sane3913]

Which ebike do you have?

[@EV_Jojo]

@@sane3913 Bullit

[@martinsim9881]

Wouldn't an ebike give similar advantages to the OChain anyway with the way they work, as the chainrng can spin back without affecting the cranks? I suppose suppose the bit of resistance from the motor may affect the suspension slightly but would guess that is very minor!

[@kevinxodemonth]

@@martinsim9881 maybe it’s the PlacebOChain? 🤪

[@charlesdu9941]

Ochain + i9 hydra hub for the ultimate chaos build lol

[@lsugimoto8361]

Ochain R on a Evil Insurgent is a game changer. It feels like a completely different bike. I had to go up 15 psi on the shock since the switch

[@playadelcarmenkiteboarding5677]

to my experience, on top of making the suspension work better, the o´chain provides a lot more confort and control by canceling the pedal kick back, so I can go faster

[@klstrucker930419]

1:27 do you run any volume spacers in the X2? How much sag, 30% when seated?

[@freddycrabbs1033]

maybe instead of o chain a system to disengage the chainring so you can have completely normal pedaling for climbs

[@markappleyard8467]

Doesn’t the O chain negate any advantage gained from a faster pick up rear hub?

[@fABIO-cs3un]

Exactly, also you can get close to chain less feeling if you've a low engagement points hub and run with a low gear (like in 1° or 2°) since it effectively increase the dead zone of engagement

[@andynelson1977]

To an extent yes - but I've found the way my ochain works is way better than just a low engagement hub, especially in really steep, loose terrain where the wheel is locking/gripping continuously. Plus of course there's the hidden benefit of a high engagement hub just sounds nice too 👌

[@ThisGuyRides]

O chain with 18 POE DT Swiss hub... hurts my knees just thinking about it

[@dozloveseme]

​@@andynelson1977 you mean the complete silence? 🙂

[@davidburgess741]

You'd think. Something else to spend money on.

[@SepehrNaserkhaki]

Rear mech is unsprung mass but it can also act as a mass vibration dampener to some extent

[@chantsmantrasandrelaxation5079]

Remember when no-one imagined a seat dropper? Is there a future where you can 'switch' between chain and no chain?

[@dOoMnX]

Sure! Just make a cog that is not engaging the freehub! Drop the chain in that cog, do the descent and then shift back to a normal cog again!

[@stujm8376]

Excellent to just watch Neil riding. The no chain surprised me, though thinking about the physics of it, it really shouldn’t. I wonder what would happen if you tried with a single speed setup and no derailleur.

[@unclewickedmtb2023]

Good vid. Ultimately, for the non-racer, wouldn’t you just be putting an O-chain on for how much better it makes your bike feel in chunky conditions? For me, personally it would be a feel thing, not so much a time thing. Great watch though.

[@francisdee9955]

Nice thing, the ocain. If i have a mechanic that takes it apart and does a service regularly. Again just something that will start creeking…

[@chaseweeks2708]

If you're already pulling off the rear derailleur, why not push it to the next logical progression? I wonder if you could pick up even more time by ditching the entire rear cassette, front sprocket, and front derailleur as well. Would be pretty much useless for anything other than lift-serviced runs, but could be interesting to test.

[@nateberd]

Front derailleur? Looking to get better suspension feel out of your road bike?

[@chaseweeks2708]

@@nateberd right... Duh. I'm tired.

[@DickVanPaiton]

You should have taken the cassette off! That would have been super interesting in terms of rear shock efficiency.

[@anitalandkroon]

Great video 😃 nice jacket 😃

[@gmbn]

Thank you! 😁

[@kendrickcarroll680]

I kinda think the difference in time would have more to do with being more careful about line choice and when, where, and how much you are braking than with what the suspension is doing. Maybe Niel might notice the subtle differences in the suspension, but the average person probably wouldn't. That, and the fact it was his third run of the day down the same run...

[@justmtbandgaming4518]

Tbh one time i went chainless and the difference in suspension supleness and feel is very noticeable even just by seating on the bike bump absorption was amazing,with that being said i did it on a vpp bike and i'm not a very good rider. I'm for sure faster with chain overall but the bike felt amazing without chain.

[@19nolram82]

Does ochain has the same feel with a low engagement hub?

[@vxracing380]

What bike computer you got?

[@fomrug]

Such a waste. If the rear triangle rotates say ten degrees through the full range then if you're rolling fast enough for the wheel to rotate that much during the compression the freehub decouples these two things. So be rolling more than 10mph and this subject is irrelevant.

[@WilliamrikerNCC1701]

Where’s Doddy? Can’t find him anywhere these days

[@henrikerdland578]

If you don’t want pedal kickback. Go after a bike with Horst-link Suspension (4-link)

[@flashfive23]

Trek fuel ex

[@smileyhelps]

Horst-link even has more pedal kickback. Check out the analysis of the Specialized ENDURO from Trail POV

[@kurtmccann137]

Yeah horst link is good for “brake jack” not pedal kickback

[@OldBeanMTB]

Great rider 😮

[@DirtlovR]

That's it guys, time to break the chain! It only slows us down.

[@griffincontracting]

I use a bluetooth, wireless, carbon-fiber chain.

[@akaraikiriakatsuki3157]

Chainless = Less Friction on rear hub. If pure gravity trail chainless would be fastest.

[@TheButlerNZ]

Neil.... How about trying some runs with/without front/rear brakes... (I feel a lot of riders are actually held back because they use rear brakes too much, including myself). Some of my fastest (cornering wise as I had way faster bikes later) trail bike riding was on an old IT200 with a drum rear that when fixed would last maybe half a days riding... I got good at full speed up to a corner, so hard on the front that the rear was off the ground, release the brake and throttle round the corner... Years later on my YZ250's I was back to feathering rear brakes in the corner that sat me more upright in the corner and ruined exit speeds. I've tried a couple of DH runs keeping my finger off the rear (think I still feathered a couple of turns) but found i was a lot more focused on getting the braking done pre corner and found I was rolling through the corners smoother. We've seen Pro DH riders do comparable times with a broken chain... so how about sans rear brake. (Bit of useless info, A friend who was top F3 moto race bike NZ back in the early 90's put an alloy disk on the rear of his bike with huge (basically just smaller than the pads) holes to make the rotor nearly weightless... but would pass scrutineering... he reconed that if he actually touched the rear brake in a race the rotor would have just melted/disappeared... IE Road race bikers don't even use rear brakes at all. (If only I knew how actually dangerous rear brakes are on a road bike I would have been a far better rider... on a road bike all they do is lock up or sit you upright in a corner at speed. They are really only good for pulling up at the lights... and the front still do a better job of that. (I used to ride a GSX750ESG, long bike, tiny wheels, rear brakes just made that slug go straight.)

[@RedDaemon69420]

Stronger brakes may hinder some people who have poor technique, but with proper use, stronger brakes should always be faster (provided the brakes are well suited to the bike). It means there is more time they are travelling at a high speed before a corner.

[@larrystandridge]

I guess DT Swiss is right with their low engagement Hub concept. Seems like you should save the some money not buy an O chain and just buy a standard DT swiss 20 degrees before engagement hub.

[@max-eb9vi]

Very interesting results. I recently went single speed and can feel the suspension working smoother and faster. Its much more responsive now. The weight of a cassette and rear mech was clearly a big factor in suspension performance. Plus i have the perfect excuse to walk up hills now😀

[@kevinmortimer1883]

surprising that no chain is faster

[@HugoRobo]

You could have been faster chainless because at that point you had done the track more

[@mrvwbug4423]

I wonder if that just came down to how you were riding. O-Chain run was your second run, so you had a better feel for the conditions on the trail and were more warmed up. Chainless I suspect you were adjusting your riding style to do everything possible to avoid using the brakes.

[@denesk2794]

You can so much spot the nervous body language when riding without a chain. Minus Aaron Gwin...

[@JustCallMeWeei]

Fav moment, Adolf Silva's nearly crash

[@athishmarutharaj6001]

idont known if would be a good idea but for like a negative test, maybe on a hardtail?. just to eliminate any other factors besides rear suspension

[@Metal-Possum]

Why not just have a clutch for the crank/chainring interface and yet another remote on the handlebars?

[@SWFBrickbox]

Just buy a low engagement hub

[@bod3000]

Screwfix. Great selection. Much cheaper

[@HShaud]

Neil rips

[@nathankovach7414]

When you try a new product, you should do a run without it after the run eith it as well. This would take away any potential error from knowin the course better.

[@dit4963]

Complete nonsense. On such a fast track, actually on most of them, you cannot feel any pedal kickback, because it's not there. The wheel is moving and the cassette can rotate freely to compensate for the chaingrowth without engaging the hub. Learn some physics kids to not get fooled by the bike industry trying to sell you a useless device. This after they already sold you fast engagement hubs 😅

[@markdavies3151]

Ride it again with the chain without peddling.

[@marknorton3951]

Do the same series of runs on a hard tail.

[@marknorton3951]

Or three runs on a standard bike.

[@marknorton3951]

Or [a lot of things] to prove a point

[@gmbn]

That would be cool to try! The whole point of the OChain is to have rear suspension but we'd love to try chain vs chainless on a hardtail. 👍

[@Ghostina1]

so what is the point with O Chain. Just get a bike with "high pivot"

[@levingamm5956]

Brakeless makes you faster :)

[@gmbn]

You're not wrong! 😂

[@andreasbibo25]

Don´t you think it is more the mental aspect that makes chainless faster ... knowing you can not pick up speed again after braking makes you braking less?! I think a comparison of chain/chainless/o-chain without using the cranks would be more valid.

[@drewlogan4341]

lack of respect for your safety makes you faster until it doesn't

[@SnootchieBootchies27]

Remember kids, absolute speed is the only important guage of how good you or your bike are.

[@kevsknavs]

Isnt the argument chain vs ochain? 🤔

[@overseer_grimal]

Chains are overrated

[@bobothericefarmer1878]

Riding more makes u faster

[@gmbn]

Practice makes perfect!

[@kingklr1]

Statistically those times are not significantly different to make a conclusion. Friction in your cassette, or differences in weight due to no chain and derrailer may have play a factor, line taken, amount of mud sticking to your bike, how wet you were between runs changes your weight, etc. Good try.

[@YippeeSkippie426]

Those cassettes are getting comically ridiculous. How about a 72t? 90t? Why not? jeez

[@davidburgess741]

Something else to buy. UCI will ban it soon.

[@ChrisPBacon6969]

First!!

[@gmbn]

🥇🙌

[@FilipMatacin]

I am sorry, but when your chain drops you should be dnf.. It must become regulated..

[@kingflynxi9420]

Why?

[@FilipMatacin]

@@kingflynxi9420 why? Have you ever seen a bike without chain if is it not broken at the moment?

[@Jack-zi6tl]

No just no. Why should this be regulated that makes no sense, also what would even be regulated?

[@FilipMatacin]

@@Jack-zi6tl it is senseless to argue.. the bike is not operable without chain and this is the only point.. Imagine a XC racer loosin his chain an then sprinting by his bike on the track..

[@robintraina6385]

I disagree.

[@MaYbYl8eR]

Rear mech is unspring mass