How Have XC Bikes Changed? | Modern Vs Retro XC Edition

[@cra_55]

Si and muddy stuff is an underrated combo. Would love to see him do more MTB content.

[@benconnelly5246]

Ditto

[@keanermitano477]

Si looks like his having a blast in the woods with MTBs as well! Looking forward to seeing these two.

[@cra_55]

Here's another idea for "Old vs. New". Since you guys have a decent 26" bike in your fleet now, how about old vs. new tires? WTB still makes the Velociraptor and Panaracer still makes the Dart and Smoke. It would be interesting to see them go up against more modern tires on the same bike.

[@afanleor]

Hai

[@MiketheBassMan]

I’m still running velociraptors on my 26” hard tail and they seem excellent, but I haven’t tried new designs. I would love to see a back to back with modern tires.

[@fangxx456]

This goes to show that older bikes are still extremely capable. One does not need the latest and greatest bike to have fun and safely ride a trail. Obviously newer bikes are faster, but you can still do well on a much older (and lower end) bike.

[@sadiejones7991]

It's always good to see the two channels joining forces. Love seeing bikes that contributed to today

[@darrylmorgan]

Loving the XC content.Great to see Si on the channel having a right blast with Rich!Super fun Guys!

[@petersauer94]

When I started watching GMBN it was Simon Richardson, Marc Beaumont, Neil Donahue, and they had Santa Cruz mountain bikes with 27.5 wheels ❤

[@afanleor]

Hai

[@Bob_Shy_132]

And they did prettty much voiceovers....

[@Radioinactiv]

I really enjoy these crossover videos with GMBNxGCN. Not only due to the high quality of the content and the interesting chemistry between the different presenters but also because they help spark interest in different cycling disciplines for people who may not have otherwise been exposed to or chose to watch one of the other Global Cycling channels. Thanks for all the entertaining content, keep up the great work!

[@stujm8376]

Would love watching more of these crossover vids, they’re brilliant. I still ride a 26er and absolutely love it…

[@afanleor]

Hai

[@whateverbikes]

Me too, and the friends I ride with also. It's great because they are simple, cheap, easy to maintain and fix, and a hell of a lot of fun. Mind you, I live in The Netherlands, and our trails only have a little height difference, but they cab be pretty technical and twisty, and we hold our own quite nicely between all the 29'ers on the trail. My grip with modern bikes (apart from the fact that they are expensive, complicated etc.) is they actually are too good. They re so capable, that you need ever more challenging trail to actually challenge yourself and have fun. That makes it more dangerous too. Me, I easily get all my kicks on my '94 mtb, and my family is glad that I come home safely.

[@afanleor]

Amazing

[@andyamos8594]

Pricing comparison would be interesting 😉

[@muchamadichwan7273]

Si is on point with retro xc's replaced with gravel bikes

[@afanleor]

Hai

[@oliveralldridge4385]

Add a dropper to the scott scale and its more than capable I still ride a 2007 scale 10 and leave some mates on 29ers for dust on regular trails

[@straubinio_styo7768]

The twitchy and nervous rides on the classic XC bike make even the easiest of trails a blast to ride, perfect for the average beginner and veteran regarding smiles per Dollar.

[@barriobarranco]

I've always had 26" just picked up a 2021 Rockhopper for £100 in mint condition, looks like the huge 29" wheels will roll over anything, aka "skill reduction"...

[@theymademepickaname1248]

I disagree. I started mountain biking a couple of years ago, and it was on an older "twitchy" bike. I almost quit because I wasn't having much fun. I didn't start to enjoy mountain biking until I got a more modern bike with better geometry and a dropper post.

[@lanuyey4593]

@@theymademepickaname1248 sounds like skill issue.

[@theymademepickaname1248]

@@lanuyey4593 sounds like you're a turd.

[@J0bix]

@@theymademepickaname1248Being scared shitless is part of the fun. Floating around fast might seem cool, but is less of a memorable experience.

[@patricknolan1991]

Pop a dropper on the retro bike and see how much faster the laps are when they don't feel like they are going to go OTB the whole way 😂

[@amandanorth6526]

Love having Si on the channel, great vibes with Rich, and interesting content. Would love to see more

[@afanleor]

Hai

[@autisticlife]

My first mountin bike was a Saracen Conquest from 1985. It was wide long and slack. Not long after it was made Kona popularised the short steep angled mountain bike. My Saracen was "out of date" very soon yet it went and handles well on rough ground. I find it interesting that in terms of geometry and length maountin bikes have gone back to early set ups. Of course components and suspension have made a huge difference in the last 38 years.

[@afanleor]

Hai

[@chrisridesbicycles]

Interesting to read that it was Kona. I had expected that the MTB was „cyclocrossed“ as soon as it made the way to Europe. Didn‘t expect that this came from Canada.

[@alex_mcclay]

I'm surprised to hear it was Kona because I think of their 1990s-2000s bikes being slacker and more chuckable than a lot of other bikes from that era. Maybe other brands took the concept too far. Or maybe I'm just wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

[@Foxtrottangoabc]

Great to see Si always entertaining , owned that 26 like a boss. I was thinking watching Si negotiate the downhill bit that his Gravel bike skills will come in handy . An old school 26 er with an external dropper post would be good. Funnily enough my Beone 26er still holds my time trial record going uphill which I have been doing since 2010 up a boxhill bridle path.

[@X41N3]

I have always had 26. 29 is comfy and easy but it lacks the playfulness imo.

[@markturner-smith5309]

Si raced XC back in the day (2000’s) and was successful and handy shows a good riders skill set always stays no matter what on.

[@johncrouch5778]

We had those narrow bars bc trails were also narrower. They’re are still trails around me where handlebars get caught frequently

[@billmccaffrey1977]

It was great to see that Si could still handle a good trail run. I'm way older than both of you and you would be shocked to see what we used to ride trails with. Try ridding a 1965 Schwinn Sting Ray bike with coaster breaks down fire roads and single track. We all knew to take bailing wire and pliers with us because master links would snap under stress and tying the chain back together was the only way home. I don't think helmets had been invented yet.

[@aerickvesereu1796]

I remember owning a 26 in carbon mtn bike in 2012. It was from Univega and I was so excited to take it out. I took it on a trail once and absolutely hated every second of it. I sold it shortly after. Fast forward 10 years and I went mountain biking on a 29er for the first time and absolutely loved it.

[@afanleor]

Hallo

[@MikeGlorfindel]

How about a proper “retro” comparison with a fully ridged MTB from the late 90s. I had short bars, 120mm stem and no front suspension on my Orange Clockwork and although it meant stopping to qr the seat down we went down some steep knar back in the day!

[@YippeeSkippie426]

I used to hang off the back of the seat with my stomach literally on the seat for those gnarly, steep downhils I'd sometimes come across. Guess I could've just lowered my seat, lol.

[@phillipthebigj8971]

Totally agree that gravel bikes are old school mtb,s with curly bars

[@ldorman]

I always enjoy this crossover videos, be it GCN or GMBN. 15 to 20 yrs ago i got the feeling there was quite a rivality between mtb and roadies but in the recent years all the people I meet tend to be into both, just like me. When going into the road i generally do around 60+ km and when going mountain biking i do often less but go up and down at bike parks and having a good time.

[@canyondmrdreamteam5809]

Brilliant really funny more GCN collab vids please

[@barriobarranco]

I've got a 2006(?) Carrera Vulcan with 100mm recon race forks on it.... took a local KOM climb on it last September, and that's with Schwalbe "Black Jack" tyres rated for beginners and children lol

[@austinj8335]

Great collaboration GMBN/GCN! Always love a chance to see Si on a MTB!

[@Cameravastleggers]

More of this please! Full GCN and GMBN crew perhaps?

[@tr4nnel752]

I like that they compare something like a 15 year old bike. Makes it way more relevant than stuff from the 90's.They should have found a top-end bike from then though.

[@stevesullivan9377]

Rode my 2016 Giant Trance today for the first time in god knows how long after riding modern geometry hardtail and Ebike. Felt like I was perched on top of it. Did a downhill bit I’ve done hundreds of times before and it was terrifying. Bike has gone on eBay and new bike ordered. I’m too old to be crashing.

[@przemyslawgawel8501]

List of upgrades to a 26 bikes that make it as fast as a new 29er: 1. Dropper post 2. 2.35 front 2.25 rear tires with foam inserts to drop the pressure by 0.5 bar 3. 700mm bar and 2-3cm shorter stem. 4. Thicker oil and increased compression damping in the fork since the front tire will do the high frequency stuff.

[@nukedathlonman]

Love that old Scott 26er

[@X41N3]

that old xc bike is still better than my 2010 era xc bike. Just that reba fork alone...give it to me when ur done xD

[@Paganiproductions84]

I would love the same but whit a modern xc hardtail added

[@sonofkingofallkingssss]

Thanx, I've found this channel. It's so entertaining for me. I love it.

[@kunzworld2309]

I want a test where you take the same bikes, but give the old one a dropper seat post and more modern tires. I would be interesting to see how much difference that would make.

[@DiGiTaLdAzEDM]

Does 'modern' tires always mean wider? I ride 26" wheels, and am using Maxxis 2.2" Ikons tubeless on one bike, and WTB Wolverine 2.2" (killer tire) and Maxxis Instigator 2.1 on my other bike. Both hardtails.

[@alexguiver815]

A dropper post on that hardtail would transform it going downhill. Also those 1st generation Rebas, it would be good to time the bike on the same course before and after you've given them a full service.

[@yokaiofwater]

Omg!!! I loved this! Si, I am thrilled to see you having some fun with the GMBN crew!!! ❤

[@MUTP-zq1oc]

Swap those straight bars with a gravel bar and some gravel type tires on that old geometry hard tail and it will look like and feel like a gravel bike. Dont sell your old hard tails guys. There is still a lot of fun in building and riding those things.

[@MartyGold]

My 2005 Specialized Stumpjumper M4 Comp has 26's with fox float 80, Shimano Deore XT, etc and I do just fine on XC courses. People just enjoy spending new money on the shiny thing. 99.9% of people are not world class riders. Just ride what you enjoy.

[@InstaLabSparti]

That Scott is not retro! for some of us it is still a dream bike

[@88davidw]

Love the XC content and mix of GMBN and GCN. Modern XC bikes are starting to look very tempting!

[@SonnyDarvishzadeh]

Funny how 2.1 inch tires are "narrow" for XC :)

[@BRMCaptChaos]

Still on my 09 FSR XC, Wife on her Myka, just refurbished a 08 Rocky Mountain ETSX with Fox Talas 32 and Float RL for my 10yo (£180 eBay + 1x drivetrain, headset, paint, contact points and Racing Ralphs). The old ones are still golden.

[@Matthew-jr5kd]

Rocking a scott spark 20 full suss i love it its old now but still great

[@voladel]

Needs 80mm Sids, 1.8 mm tyres and bar ends for the full effect

[@voladel]

Ideally onza porcupines!

[@VinceWatches]

great and fun video, but you should compare this modern 29er versus a Kona King Kikapu 2001, a Rocky Mountain ETS-X or a YETI ASR SL and perhaps the gap with these type of 26er would not be huge as 2000's full sus are still amazing bikes to ride.

[@rbsmuffinman]

My dad XC raced a no suspension Trek in 1991. I recently revived it as a commuter bike with fat road tyres and it rides brilliantly. Most of the components are original. 3by and bullhorn bars were an education for me though!

[@youngstadan4999]

Ive got a 2000 rockhopper fsr still , xc bike still pretty quick, also still got stumpy 07 hope pro evo hubs wheelset 140 mil fox floats, still a great bike. Only difference is the wheel size really yypu can feel its hard gping sometimes, the big 29ers cover ground better for sure. Love my old bikes though reminds me of the old days

[@omniAK]

Love these crossovers.. more please!

[@CalQaida]

I ride a 2011 Cannondale Flash ultimate 26er and I absolutely agree with the extra feeling of agility and speed vs 27.5 or 29er

[@przemyslawgawel8501]

Oh and that Reba SL can be easily converted from 100 to 115mm travel by removing a spacer in the positive chamber!

[@curtvaughan2836]

Good presentation! Would have liked to see an early 2000's vintage full sus. in a comparison, sort of like my 2002 Klein Palomino.

[@kcrymble]

I've a 1993 Scott Team Racing, steel, 3x7, Scott integrated barends, fully rigid sitting in the garage waiting for your next test 😁

[@CLEARRTC]

Always need more Si and Hank on GMBN :)

[@hoooooops]

Now i know what to do with my old rusty 26" Rixe MTB without any suspension, bought around 1985 - convert it to a Gravelbike! 😅

[@gamby16a]

I still ride a 2005 full suspension Decathlon Rockrider 9.1 (with a bunch of upgrades) and I keep up on group rides just fine.

[@denistuohy6420]

Nice to see a gcn presenter on gmbn, which reminds me i haven't watched gcn in a while, 😅

[@Bonky-wonky]

Now take a race level 29er ht, put a shorter stem on it and a lightweight dropper and you have the best of both worlds. Old fashioned zippiness but way more capable. I can guarantee you it’s a blast to ride and makes xc riding fun..even for a retired bmxer.

[@gaborfeher741]

Take part in a today's XCM (marathon) race with the old 26er XC bike, that would be the real test.

[@lio220]

2007 bikes had Shimano Dual Control, best invention ever for me! But not for all

[@glennpettersson9002]

Great fun to watch, I hope you didn't get too cold. It looked cold 🥶

[@The_One-Eyed_Undertaker]

I believe a face-off between Tech giants Doddy and Ollie is way overdue at this point...

[@Beamish32]

My late '90's Marin Team Issue still climbs better than my 2021 Nukeproof Reactor Carbon Elite. The drops are a bit sketchy though with a very long stem and a seat post seized in the tube with my arse higher than my elbows

[@kimoarmstrong3519]

Love these crossover episodes! Like Anna and Mannon sand racing.

[@rolfeaalto7387]

Put decent tires on the old-school MTB and it will go a lot faster! Running 3.5" Maxxis DHF/DHR on my 2000 Moots and it flies over roots and around muddy corners! And put a dropper on it, it's easy and makes a huge difference.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

Loved every minute of it. We all knew that Si would go slower without proper bar ends. I still have the top of the range Scandium Scott from around the same age as used by Thomas Frischknecht back in the day. If you want to rematch during the festival, let me know. A 26“ MTB might be the fastest option in the car park crit.

[@noelius4481]

Ah yes the good ol' pre-slack XC. Also known as the modern gravel bike. Jk. Lol Great vid as always

[@bat_fastard4525]

Si had balls of steel…until he dropped in then, bye bye balls 😂 long live the dropper 🤣

[@CC-zm9fw]

How long was the whole XC lap? I would be interested to calculate the % quicker that the modern bike was over the whole lap

[@kirkwoodbharris5110]

We've seen GCN do some mountain biking. Are we going to see GMBN folks on roadies and time-trail bikes?

[@Shoegaze88]

I have a Yeti ASR from about 2000 stashed away. It's a death trap on modern trails compared to any modern bike. It was scary as hell even compared to when I was riding a Salsa Mamasita in about 2011.

[@jonquinlivan4208]

Si needs to come back and do an Enduro race with Rich now that would be awesome. Please bring GCN back for a race on equal bikes

[@McSchwabl]

The GCN guy should do some enduro with the GMBN guys

[@hugomundo4826]

This is gonna be my new warcry. MOUNTAIN BIKING!!!🤟

[@gingerb36]

Enjoyed the competitive banter, good sports

[@serendipity24000]

I think the history lesson was a bit off. Marin single pivot suspension bikes (suspension designed by British engineer John Whyte) were very popular in the late 90's and early 2000's. And John Lasenby won the British XC Championships on a Marin FS in 1999. So it wasn't all just hardtails 15 years ago, plenty of full sussers around as well.

[@tonymc90]

Si doing well on the MTB. My XC bike is from 2016 and is pretty bone shaking, down some of the downhill trails at Forest of Dean - think you were on Sheepskull

[@Pienimusta]

You must be new to the channel

[@rubemdariorole]

Vontade de voltar a andar, parabéns pelo trabalho.

[@afanleor]

Hallo

[@przemyslawgawel8501]

The real difference is component spec. If you take a Scott 10 and Scott 50 from 2012 there surely be a large difference. Each component adds up!

[@tomislavkrsic2153]

Love this video, very nice challenge🎉 also i love XC bikes, I live in cit and XC bike for commuting is must have for long terms

[@OlayerB]

1996 was the first “rear suspension” bike atop a world championship podium. Thomas Frischknecht on the Ritchey Softtail in Cairns, Australia. Only recognized as such after Jerome Chiotti gave up his gold medal after admitting to being on EPO for the race.

[@owensnicholas]

Heck yeah. More GCN/GMBN crossovers.

[@raff5604]

Love it!!! I can't believe the sketchy conditions you guys ride on, muddy and wet makes for a slippery ride.

[@markairey1986]

You must be American 🤔🤣 welcome to UK riding, if we didn't ride in the wet and muddy conditions we would never get to ride at all 😆

[@raff5604]

@@markairey1986 Canadian, we have trail "Karens" that get angry when we ride on muddy trails. Kinda like today.

[@markairey1986]

@@raff5604 in which case please accept my apologies for calling you American... 🤣🤣 I thought Canadians rode in the wet, especially north shore area as you have the same problem as we do in the UK with the weather!

[@thelionskiln]

@@raff5604 ya I was about to say these close the trails when it rains over here lol :D

[@raff5604]

@@markairey1986 LOL!!! no apologies necessary brother

[@LLeoBan]

We all feel like Rich on our bikes but really we all look like Si.

[@orvillealdrich7601]

More GCN riders please! Good vid fellas!

[@andrewjohnson9896]

Wonderful video guys.

[@gmbn]

Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers!

[@ekims_echoes]

Fun comparison. Now I'm really curious how a lightly modified older XC bike would compare. I'm thinking something as simple as taking a bike from about 2005 and fitting a short stem, wide bars, and a dropper post. Might have to size up too for that. Then how would that compare with both a stock 2005 bike and a modern one.

[@TheAverageDutchman]

Tried that on a cheap-ish old bike, but the geometry just doesn't really work that way very well. Shorter stem and wider bars do help a bit in terms of riding comfort/position but the old style frame geo still just doesn't make for as nice a ride.

[@ekims_echoes]

@@TheAverageDutchman I've actually done it with a few bikes myself with decent success too. I'm mostly curious how it compares with stock and modern bikes. My guess is it would fall somewhere in between.

[@AlistairBrugsch]

The shorter stem needs to go with a lengthened frame and slacker head angle or it doesn't work. You can do the head angle a bit by adding a longer travel fork but you're never making the top tube longer (otherwise you just make a short bike shorter)

[@ekims_echoes]

@@AlistairBrugsch This is why I mentioned possibly sizing up the bike. I've done these changes to at least three older XC bikes - one of which I still ride regularly. The point is to change the ride characteristics and each time I've done so it's felt like an improvement to the bike. What I'm curious about is how a bike modded like that would compare with bikes like in this video on the same tests.

[@torist043]

Si do have a point, easy stuff I used to love riding on my hardtail 1988 is still fun on my gravel bike and the gnarly stuff I really enjoy on my enduro bike would not be possible on the 1988 XC bike.

[@zenscapeUKmedia]

Great video. But one huge aspect hasn't evolved with tech & courses. Its the XC clothing. All the WC riders look like they're still wearing 90's weekend-warrior spray-on Lycra, pervy-shorts and silly, tiny road helmets - yet they're flying across rooted single track, gnarly rock gardens, jumps & bridges. I watched all the Red Bull races and the riders are picking up horrendous gouges and both men and women are finishing seriously bloodied on dirty, infection risk trails. I realise that riders have to comply with UCI rules, but enduro and downhill features proper protective Moto-X jerseys, longer shorts and side-protection headgear. We could have lost Nino last year to a head injury. Things have to change.

[@Devenrefix]

I want to see more videos in that scott 26er i have a 26er bike its all lot fun its nimble very easy to pedal on steep climbs and its lighter conpared 29er and i realy want ride 29 inch bike but its very expensive i Dont want to upgrading or buying 29er to impress or to be fast high tech parts bigger wheels its all about having fun and feeling the bumps and happy on 26er bike 🤘🤘

[@randyhale4181]

How about vintage hardtail against a Modern hardtail?

[@clarklowe5632]

Would love to see then try and ride a real late 90's MTB on these trails. Mag21, narrow bars, 3x, and 2.0 tires. Love to see the younger crowd struggle.

[@przemyslawgawel8501]

What they did not say is how faster Si was on the climbs. Because the fitness difference would overshadow any gear differences.

[@DonFather]

That was a great comparison to watch and that kit. Oh my! Lol

[@andymonis5368]

Good vid and Si is always good.

[@adamsandler4076]

Si gave perfect explanation for gravel bikes

[@Derekforeal]

Collaborations are always welcomed.

[@mojaavantura]

Is 30 or so seconds worth the price difference?

[@junka1975]

Always a fun time when GCN and GMBN cross over. There's a video that needs to be done and that's a challenge video of an XC hard tail vs XC dual suspension. Have them run the same front forks, wheels, tyres and drive train. See which is more capable. I have found on certain things the XC hardtail will beat the dual suspension suspension and vice versa but my two XC bikes are quite different set ups.

[@madtownangler]

I believe that maybe three worlds in a row were won on a full suspension pro flex bike in the 1990's back when I lived in Colorado.