Chainmail - some points about

In which I ramble for a bit making a series of near-random points about chainmail, or mail, or whatever you prefer to call it.
There is much on mail on my website. Please check there first before writing to me asking questions on this topic.
www.LloydianAspects.co.uk

[@jacobkreger1633]

"It stops you dying." Probably the most important one.

[@Exima_yt]

the best thing about these videos is, that they never get out ot date : )

[@Quillyik]

+Angebissener Steinkopf. Well technically they were out of date 700 years ago :)

[@Tygineer]

+John Nemo make it six bitch

[@Tygineer]

***** it was a rhyme

[@awedbyodd41]

6 time travellers and 0 who watch South Park (aside from yourselves ofc). Interesting crowd Lindybeige has!

[@awedbyodd41]

+Terry Ghast I do find it odd. Because of it, I find myself in a perpetual state of awe.

[@joshuahadams]

I had a hilarious idea watching this. Lacquer a few dozen envelopes, glue them all together, and you now have mail mail.

[@bobbybobson5912]

Then you could have a male mail man in mail mail delivering mail to other males in mail mail.

[@ferko28]

if you glue lots of 2.7182 together you can get an e-mail.

[@ValerioParlavecchia]

you just destroyed my brain, my children are helping me collecting the pieces... NO! AIDAN! NO! DON'T EAT IT!!!!!

[@BeepingMetal]

I enjoyed this far too much.

[@pcarrierorange]

Josh Adams Or staple them together and you get Chain Mail.

[@lindybeige]

Get a knife and try to stab through a piece of paper that is free-hanging. Bodkin arrows would stick in when striking at shallower angles, yes, but there still comes a point when they zing off, and a shallow angle would cause the arrow to swerve and not transfer the full weight of the shaft into the target. Yes, we have reason to believe that bodkin arrows were designed to improve the performance of arrows against mail, which is a further bit of evidence that mail was good against arrows.

[@arkadeepkundu4729]

0:15 "When I say mail, it just refers to some armour of some sort" Nah mate, 99% of the population thinks of either their email inbox or the post office.

[@DavidEllis94]

Sorry to revive a post more than a decade old, but I wonder about arrows glancing off of mail like that. I mean, surely, there is a degree to which sloping, even when your armor is fundamentally made of a series of overlapping cylinders, as far as the arrowhead is concerned, would certainly improve protection in much the same way it does when using proper plates. However, when your arrow is approaching such an array of overlapping iron rings even at a very steep angle, how much opportunity would it really have to glance off? Assuming the rings have circular cross sections, would it really matter which angle the arrow is coming in at? An impact striking a ring--rather than passing through the middle of it, I mean--should, I imagine, have a roughly equal chance of glancing upward or downward, at which point the tip of the arrow should be caught in the center of that ring or by one of its neighbors. So, rather than skipping off entirely, I imagine an arrow--and really almost any piercing weapon, to be honest--would be quite likely to stick into the mail even on very oblique hits. Perhaps this is why thrusting and piercing attacks were one of mail's weaknesses as armor (relatively speaking, of course, though I suppose percussive impacts were its weakest area by far).

[@DavidEllis94]

I should clarify a bit: When I say piercing and thrusting was a relative weakness of mail, I'm not imagining that it was at all incapable of stopping piercing, thrusting attacks. It was quite effective, to be sure. I just mean that where mail was about as good as you could ever hope to get against cutting attacks, piercing attacks could, indeed, stick in and force a ring or two open and piercing that way. It was by no means easy to do, but I feel like mail was still a bit more vulnerable to that than it was to an attacker simply trying to slice through it.

[@charlesw5919]

Yes, there are numerous records in both Christian and Muslim chronicles about knights struck with multiple arrows but kept on fighting because their armor protected them. It must have been a demoralizing sight for their enemies, to see their most celebrated weapon, the bow and arrow, having no apparent effect on the knights.

[@lancerd4934]

Charles W They wouldn't have had much effect on infantry equipped with large shields, so it wouldn't have been a new experience for the archers. In fact the whole arrow-resistant cavalry thing had been know as far back as the Roman empire as similar things were written about Eurasian cataphracts. You wouldn't expect every arrow to kill or even wound someone, same as bullets in modern warfare. I suspect it was even more demoralising to be equipped only with melee weapons and having to keep weathering repeated showers of arrows with no way to respond and hoping none found a gap in your protection.

[@lancerd4934]

Scotland Forever ...unless you count the parthians.

[@lancerd4934]

Scotland Forever I believe Marcus Crassus would disagree with you there.

[@krisnorge5830]

It was even worse for the Turks at the battle of Nicopolis when the French knights had plate armour which was just beginning to come into its prime over their mail. They charged straight in without support and blew through the Turkish horse archers until they found themselves facing a row of stakes behind which was the Turkish infantry composed mainly of archers. They were under a shower of arrows but unlike the English bodkins, Turkish arrows were not made to face armour that good and the French knights dismounted and sent their horses back, ripped out the stakes, marched through and slaughtered the Turkish infantry. Less than a thousand men nearly routed the Turkish army through the sheer force of their advance. But atfter defeating the infantry and some cavalry, they trudged up a hill in full plate, thinking the battle was over, and the Turkish elites, the Seven Regiments and Bayezid's household guard ambushed them and those they had previously defeated returned to the fight on the sides so they were surrounded and slaughtered.

[@gregbezanson3205]

Unfortunately "Chainmail" is less ambiguous than you might hope. If someone who isn't really into this sort of thing asks me what I do for hobbies, and I reply "I like to make chainmail," they generally look at me strangely and ask "As in 'forward this to 15 people or your genitals shall wither and your dog will get by a bus' chain-mail?"

[@CarrowMind]

Greg Bezanson Then call it "ringmail" since they are rings after all. :P

[@LordGangrel]

Greg Bezanson Are you the nigerian prince?

[@Thunderscreamer]

Greg Bezanson If someone makes such a reply I would argue you are well within your rights to look down your nose at them distastefully :P

[@placeholdername0000]

Greg Bezanson Chain mail armor?

[@gregbezanson3205]

Zypofaeser Almost good, except sometimes I make other things out of chainmail too.

[@ragimundvonwallat8961]

=( am i the only one who didint suspected at all that he was wearing one?

[@ragimundvonwallat8961]

i think it was unsuspectingism....yeah its racism for people that were unsuspecting!

[@MrAllanstevns]

I think youre the first person ive heard, that agrees with me on the point that chainmail is incredibly relaxing to just handle. I love the feeling of mail in my hand. On one hand its cold and hard as steel is, but yet its still soft and bendy....... my wife thinks im nuts when i sit and "fondle" a bit of mail. I even tried giving some to her, but she seemed rather unimpressed.

[@Xenophaige_reads]

A friend of mine makes chainmail bikinis which have been a hit in certain areas of society. I think he tried to make half as well but they were less popular.

[@projectilequestion]

"my wife thinks im nuts when i sit and "fondle" a bit of mail" Hahahaha, you remind me so much of me.

[@Oberonjames]

I had the exact same reaction the first time I handled it! I couldn't stop working it over in my hand, it was so comfortable. I used to know a girl that liked to strip naked and cover her body in chain mail because of the way it felt.

[@CraftQueenJr]

I want chainmail as classroom fidgets,

[@steyn1775]

@@CraftQueenJr only downside is that they make your hands dirty quickly :/ But you can make aluminium/copper/non-ferro metal rings and still fondle with it

[@opmdevil]

If you make your mail out of iron, do you then have fe-mail?

[@ForgottenSix]

No, you have fe-maille ;P

[@KaskDaxxe]

ForgottenSix But only if your trying to be all ye- olde and pretentious

[@Kronecraft]

I envy the man that has that :)

[@ScienceDiscoverer]

+Satan dat puns!!!

[@manicmechanic448]

opmdevil that was really bad.

[@ThaTerrorr]

So, extra weight, good heatsink, no movement obstruction plus you look cool. That would be great for working out.

[@azh698]

Just don't wear it out in the sun.

[@AvrahamYairStern]

You work put my Lord?

[@ComfyDents]

@@azh698 yes people will stare. Quite uncomfortable. :-D

[@Zathaghil]

Dear Lloyd! Actually, wearing chainmail in winter actually helps you staying warm! You just have to remember the layer to wear on TOP of the armour. Thin linen or silk or cotton will do. but a more sturdy garment works best. It turns the mail into a thermostatic layer, (iow, it insulates you) keeping you cozy and warm... I know this from experience. We have REAL winters here. Down to minus 25 C at times, not just barely touching zero, and wearing chain mail helped keep me suffering from hypothermia quite a lot.

[@cruz1ale]

Insulation works with materials that have low thermal conductivity. Metal has high thermal conductivity. The fact that you require a layer on top of the armor proves how useless the armor itself is for insulation. The top layer has to insulate the armor from the cold air so that it doesn't conduct all your body heat away from you.

[@mrb692]

It makes sense, though, in much the same way as a wetsuit. The maille serves to create another air gap between the insulating layer and your skin. It also increases the thermal mass of the insulated system. Instead of having a tiny bit of air held at body temperature, there's a tiny bit of air and 30 pounds of steel to fend off a strong draft.

[@spaceminions]

I theorize that it conducts heat between warmer and cooler areas of your body when kept behind the actual insulation- thus you feel warmer.

[@ThreeLetters3]

Zathaghil dude it's 7 years old... (the video)

[@ThePcHelperdude]

He could have not know. Also the comment is still helpful to people browsing today

[@cryer3160]

and all the knight in the old world probably sent each other chain mails in their free time for kicks

[@joejoe4games]

took me a sec. :D

[@islamispeace333]

Oh yeah, and it stops you from dying! Almost forgot that one :P

[@eduardosiqueira2798]

14 years later, this pops up on my feed. KZbin forgot I watched it when it came out. Nice to see it holds up to this day.

[@noelhann5262]

Imagine a knight, full of arrows, is running at you seemingly uninjured with intent to kill. That’d be truly terrifying.

[@Gabdube]

Actually, those who insist on calling it "maille" should pronounce it like \mɑj\, not "mail". The word "maille" designates an element of a treillis, net, lattice or knitted fabric.

[@w.reidripley1968]

It does now, at least.

[@larsrc]

One important point to making (chain) mail easier on your shoulders: wear a belt, bunch up the mail slightly, and your hips will carry a lot of the weight. Which is what they're good at. I do find the weight and movement of mail on the arms gets in the way of fighting, but with real weapons the difference was probably small enough compared to the weapon's weight that it didn't matter. A poorly constructed armpit would definitely get in the way of high swings and blocks.

[@lindybeige]

@paperboard1 People did not layer armour much, except to add padding to hard materials. If stronger armour were wanted, they wore one thicker layer rather than two thinner ones that would take twice as long to put on.

[@lindybeige]

Mithril is a fantasy metal which supposedly is very light and strong. The mail armour Frodo wears on The Lord of the Rings is described as saving him from a thrown spear in a fight, which is perfectly possible. In the Jackson film, however, we see a tree-trunk sized spear rammed into him by a gigantic monster, and he would have been killed anyway by the sheer impact.

[@riesenfliegefly7139]

"I think ive said enough for one video" well times change :D

[@Jebu911]

I still prefer the short videos. Even tho i end up watching more than few hours i just feel better that at least it was 10 videos not 2

[@lindybeige]

@seoden It protects you against mail that has heated in the sun, which could scorch the skin.

[@BlackBanditXX]

As a martial artist living in New England, who actually loves to fight in the dead of winter, I can assure you that wearing chainmaille in the winter is not a problem. Because of all that padding, it actually very effectively keeps you warm, despite the fact that you are wearing a hauberk. Also, a surcoat is invaluable during the winter - it helps to keep you warm and makes you look spiffy too! Also, an interesting side effect of a good suit of chainmaille is, its known to attract the lasses!

[@austinhobbesandjustin]

Ok so....I've watched many of your videos and I can safely say you are now my favorite history teacher

[@40Kfrog]

JnnyUtah35 said ""Go to my website, you'll find advice on how to make chain mail armpits" - I don't know why I had to repeat that... I think that's just a sentence I never would have thought possible in the history of the English language" And I wanted to like that post, but I can't because google+ SUCKS ARSE.

[@thegiantratthatmakesalloft9415]

40Kfrog nooooooob

[@lindybeige]

Depends on the context. In wargame rules, it could just refer to the amount worn, so "heavy" might mean covering the legs and with full length sleeves. Mail does vary in wire thickness quite a lot, and there are denser patterns of mail, such as six-in-one rather than the usual four-in-one. "Double mail" is sometimes used to describe mail with wire so thick that it overlaps a lot more. Such mails were rare and often very late - double mail was a response to firearms that was not successful.

[@lindybeige]

In Braveheart, there is one shot in which the King of England raises his arm and you can see that even the King has exposed armpits.

[@schizoidboy]

Seeing this makes the point of how ancient craftsmen were a lot more knowledgeable then we give them the credit for. These were people who put a lot of thought into their work regarding it's usefulness in combat including it's functionability and comfort to the wearer. We often don't think about it in our modern times that they would have made things functionable.

[@lindybeige]

My website has the details. The URL is in the description for this video.

[@lindybeige]

@CantStopTheMadness1 Riveted mail is a LOT more expensive, though. Aluminium mail is made for lightness (for actors etc.), so avoid that. If the ends of the wire rings come to a chisel-like point, because they've been clipped with wire cutters, avoid. Fancy modern coatings on the wire - avoid. If you cannot lift the entire shirt by one ring without that ring's bending - avoid. Rings that are large are best avoided (say, above 12mm internal diam).

[@lindybeige]

@TOMHYLE88 Yes, thick padding is stiffer than chainmail. The stab vests are super-dense cloth.

[@lindybeige]

No they did not have holes under the arms. For some reason, people making mail get scared by the complexity of the armpits. I didn't find it tricky when I tried. I have a page on my website about the armpits on mail shirts.

[@lindybeige]

Possible, but it isn't the ideal, nor what they did. Metal armour was layered with padding, not with other metal armour. Mail was used to cover gaps like the armpits on suits of plate, but it was patches of mail on a padded leather suit. If they wanted more protection from p[late, they'd just make the plate stronger. Putting mail under plate would be noisy and cumbersome.

[@HavocHerseim]

I used to make chain mail. Mine were just rings plied together. I see examples of them being riveted together. It seems the way to go but, my god, how much time!

[@SpenserClark]

Yes, rivets are what you want for accuracy and efficacy.

[@w.reidripley1968]

You remember about how many labor hours it took to make butted. Now multiply by four. Once you've got your technique down.

[@BlyatBear]

3 questions: 1: What is the pattern of your Chainmail? 2: What kind of rings is your chainmail made of? (Butted, welded, riveted etc.) 3. What steel is your chainmail made of? I am curious about the craft to just faif around while my weekend grinds on for work.

[@seraphthegenie]

The thing I love about these videos is that the only way you can tell what era it’s from is by the camera quality. A video from 5 years ago looks almost the same as a new video. It’s quality

[@lindybeige]

@frost2021 Generally no. There is a misconception that this happened because people see mail in the armpits and such like gaps in the plate. Actually, though, those bits of mail were patches attached to a padded suit worn under the plate. Some small plates for things like knees and shoulders were added over mail for a while as knights gradually made the transition from ail to plate. Mail under plate is very inefficient. Better just to have thicker plate.

[@lindybeige]

Some armour had plates with holes around the edge for attaching to mail. the mail would be in between the plates, not behind /under them. With gothic field plate, the knight would have mail patches sewn to his padded leather suit worn under the armour, where the gaps in the plate were.

[@Dragantraces]

A Brit who says, "different from"! You *are* a rare bird. I truly enjoy your eclecticism.

[@chainmaillekid]

I've found that if you don't go with the two L's and the E, people often confuse it with chain letters. Its also useful for search indexing. Try googleing for mail vs maille, and see what you come up with. I really don't have any preference as to which is more 'proper', but having gone by both chainmailkid and chainmaillekid for more than 10 years, I can distinctively say maille communicates much more clearly.

[@sockmonkey6666]

One really significant advantage that should be mentioned is that once you have the wire, chainmail can easily be be made and repaired by unskilled workers. So even though it's rather time-consuming to make, that can more than be made up for by having everyone in the village on the job assembling sections of mail while a couple of blacksmiths work on cranking out the wire. Still another big advantage is that since mail has some give, you don't have to custom fit it to each individual like you do with plate armor. So, bottom line is that you can equip every last soldier with the stuff as long as you have the ability to smelt ore.

[@treeplanter-bv4gw]

Something I noticed whilst using your site's guide to making chainmail: You suggest using a pair of sidecutters or a hacksaw, but I have found a way to quickly amass a large amount of rings. Take a 1.5 cm or 1 cm diameter wooden rod and wrap the wire around it as many times as you can, exactly like a spring. Then, grip the dowel-with-wire in a vice and take an angle grinder down the length of it. Once you have taking the grinder to the end, simply run your hand down the rod (after it has cooled down of course) to harvest the rings.

[@treeplanter-bv4gw]

oh, another thing I thought of: Instead of making the latten rings from a completely different metal, why not simply dip them in copper sulphate? It will cover them in a layer of copper that will look good without weakening the maille

[@treeplanter-bv4gw]

buy copper sulphate powder, dissolve it in water and dip the steel in is what I did. The replacement reaction is near instant and completely safe. You can pick copper sulphate up at a chemist, or at least you should be able to. I wish I had a drill press, apparently it makes making riveted mail a dream

[@treeplanter-bv4gw]

It should. Hell, if you do it to galvanised and scrape the copper off you should get plain, ungalvanised steel

[@lindybeige]

Possibly the reference is to the total thickness of mail plus the padding worn with it.

[@lindybeige]

I have seen reconstructions of late hauberks done this way, but I don't know what the evidence for this is. It is always difficult/dangerous to say "They never did it this way" because unless one knows EVERYTHING, one may have missed an example. Having buckles up the back means that you need someone to do it up for you, so it is easier and harder.

[@ThunderChunky101]

It's symmetrical, it's just that it's noncommutative symmetry,.

[@mr.dapper5386]

+Sal sean no, it’s just not symmetrical

[@ThunderChunky101]

Mr. Dapper It discuss symmetry. It is symmetrical.

[@mr.dapper5386]

Sal sean it discuss symmetry? i don’t know what that’s supposed to mean, but chainmail just isn’t symetrical

[@ThunderChunky101]

Mr. Dapper Typo. It has a symmetry.

[@LaunchpadMacQuack]

+Sal sean it has translational symmetries, not rotational symmetries (well maybe 180 degrees rotational symmetry). Nevertheless, the word isotropic describes it better than symmetrical. It isn't isotropic.

[@lindybeige]

The heat sink effect is not so noticeable if the mail is in direct sun. My mail is tailored with many expansions and contractions (see my website). The rings are 6mm internal diameter and about 9mm external, so that makes the wire about 1.5mm thick.

[@Nurk0m0rath]

I believe I can add slightly to the heat sink point. I have worn chain mail while working at a forge (all windows and doors open in the dead of winter because it gets so stinking hot in there) and just walking around in snow. Mail has a very extensive surface area which loses heat very rapidly. Because of this, yes, exposed mail in the winter can suck all the body heat out of you and kill you, and even a small exposed edge can feel as cold as suddenly grabbing an iron bar that was left out in the snow. However, as long as it is well covered, mail doesn't have this problem. Wearing a winter coat with mail underneath really isn't any different from wearing a winter coat without armor, except of course now you're more resistant to damage. You just need to prevent the cold air from reaching the mail, particularly wind. The same is true of heat: strong heat sources (even the sun in warmer climates) can be devastating on exposed mail, which can get as hot as sand at the beach that burns your toes. But if the mail is covered, the heat doesn't get through, and the mail doesn't heat up until you do. To top this off, even the slightest breeze cools the mail incredibly fast (remember, you were trying to prevent wind in the mail in winter), which allows a unique feature. Simply grabbing the end of your coat and fanning it cools a huge part of your mail, achieving in seconds what an air conditioner might take minutes to replicate. I found when I was working the forge, I hugely preferred to wear my winter coat all through the session, with mail underneath, over wearing a T-shirt. Exposed skin felt like it was baking when I approached the forge, which the insulated coat prevented, and when I took a breather to cool off while the metal heated up, the mail made these breaks more effective in less time. This is a huge weather advantage over plate which basically amplifies both heat and cold conditions and can't be covered by normal clothing that is maybe a size or two larger than normal.

[@0hypnotoad0]

Some revisionist points about this for all yall. Keep in mind that this is butted, round right chainmail. The chainmail worn by knights and vikings and warriors and such was largely flat-ringed, riveted mail. In scotland and ireland it appears that the rings were round,but they were still riveted and as such the rings have restricted movement. While I don't agree that vikings fought with straight arms, I own such a long-armed riveted mail hauberk, and the stuff is actually quite rigid and it catches easily on itself, it does restrict movement to a degree. Taking high-armed sword swings becomes quite difficult with the weight of the armor and its rigidity. Museum pieces are also not an accurate representation of weight, their rings have worn down considerably (the armor is compromised and unwearable), the mail itself is of abnormally high quality, and it is all of a rather recent make, not of the quality of early medieval chainmail; which generally explains why it has lasted so long.

[@FartInhalerSlamPoetry]

Pincushion Crusader is gonna be my new 2003 Xbox gamer tag.

[@lindybeige]

@Unguidedone Yes, mithril and adamantium also come recommended.

[@Jesses001]

I have been doing a lot of experimentation for chain mail for industrial purposes lately. I am finding that small ring chain mail like that does not constrict movement of the shoulders, but it does constrict movement of the elbows. The mail on the inner part of the elbow lock each other up and do not allow full bend of the elbow. I will keep working at it to make a better design.

[@Jesses001]

Noel Craig Sorry, "expansion and contraction rings" only makes sense to me in the context if chemistry, and I do not believe that is what you meant.

[@lelandlusk6811]

This guy is so wholesome. Is legitimately into this kind of stuff

[@Marines_Memelevolent]

10+ years of my man on KZbin. My only wish is that I found him earlier, because the content has been ace since the start.

[@lindybeige]

I read archaeology at uni. While there, I was also part of a re-enactment group, but the academic course was not in re-enactment.

[@lindybeige]

4 in 1 was enormously more common, and most of the 6 in 1 stuff I've seen has been fancy for the sake of it. It is less flexible, harder to make, and heavier. You can make mail more protective simply by making the wire thicker.

[@mikegrossberg8624]

OR making the links SMALLER. Example: 3/8ths inch inside diameter down to 1/4 inch diameter. Makes the mail about 20-30 percent denser. Also ups the WEIGHT of the mail by several pounds

[@deadasfak]

It stops you from dying:D

[@TheRomanRuler]

That is quite useful feature in armor.

[@nilloc93]

I love how that was the last point

[@TadRaunch]

Doesn't work in movies

[@michaelfurgessons2896]

Almost forgot that fact!

[@lindybeige]

The tomb, I believe, though commonly referred to as his, is merely assumed to be his from the fact that its date is about right and it is very rich. Yes - Phil the Second, Alex's dad.

[@lindybeige]

@MrTrykster The weight distribution would be better with a byrnie (T-shirt), and the shoulders would be protected, including from downward blows skidding off the helmet. A mail tank top would still be better than nothing, though.

[@lindybeige]

@fpscrash1992 Use round-section wire, not square. For comfortable jewellery you should go for smaller links. Just start.

[@lindybeige]

Yes, so the arms on most hauberks hang open and heavy, and do not hug the arms the way the torso is hugged.

[@GreasyBeasty]

I love that even the old videos teach me so much!

[@beelzibubbles]

I wore full length 12 weave chain mail at a role playing event (basically 6 weave but double ringed, proper re-enactment armour), everyone avoided it and warned me off but it was actually very comfortable. Definitely making one when I have the rings for it.

[@stevepowell491]

There is a convention to refer to Maille for historical armour (riveted rings), Mail for modern (welded rings or rings pinched closed but not welded or rivited as most cheaper mail is), and qualify with chain for the type you displayed, box (4 in 1) hex or oriental (6 in 1), butchers and shark (ultra-fine mail). It just helps those of us who mess about with different types of armour to know which type we're referring to. Also, wearing a light leather surcoat over the maille helped defeat bodkin arrows as the needle point didn't penetrate the leather so easily, and the underlying maille had a better chance of absorbing the impact (we tried it and yes, it worked). But nice overview :p

[@michaelfurgessons2896]

Do all chainmail types riveted buted etc protect the same?

[@stevepowell491]

No - butted ring is weaker - the rings tend to pull open again when worn even without being hit. That's why the original maille was riveted closed. Riveting or welding the links closed makes them stronger and so offers better protection. It's just for reenactment or home made mail, it's easier and faster to simply close the links rather than weld or rivet them.

[@LetsTakeWalk]

Dude I once met once carried chainmail under his regular clothing when he went to a mock-protest to train riotpolice. Boy were the riotpolice surprised that their batons did nothing against him. (Didn't work against tackles).

[@Ser_Salty]

+Lawrence Tider Chainmail is not gonna do anything against being hit by a baton. If anything, it just makes it worse as the metal get's pushed into yourself. More so if you're wearing it *under* your clothes. I have a feeling you are making this up.

[@LetsTakeWalk]

+TheDeathRises Chainmail isn't worn on the skin. Chains spread the blow over the entire body.

[@Ser_Salty]

Lawrence Tider You said he wore it under his clothes.

[@alttplink]

+Lawrence Tider Ya man you need something like a gambison. All the mail can do is stop cuts, not blows.

[@Piorn]

+Lawrence Tider How does Chainmail react to a Tazer?

[@lindybeige]

I'd guess that plate is better at transferring force from one part to another, and better at getting blows to skid off.

[@MadeInEnland]

The wording in your videos is amazing, can't help but crack up at some of your responses to things.

[@lindybeige]

I do have riveted mail, but the shirt I wear in this video is not.

[@lindybeige]

@zachsbanks "European pattern" standard 4 in 1. See my website for all the details of expansions and contractions etc.

[@bootesvoid1275]

I came to this channel looking for Medieval content, but I found an incredible performer! Great job Beige!

[@lawindacera7219]

There's something nice and awfully nostalgic about videos like these

[@lindybeige]

@Thunderblade117 I suspect you mean "butted" which just means bending the ends until they meet, so riveted is stronger.

[@lindybeige]

There is a loss of flexibility, and the protection is far from perfect, but better than butted mail. This byrnie is butted. I have other stuff that is riveted. Yes, there are archaeological finds both of butted mail and mail that is a mixture of butted and non-butted. There are plenty of Roman and Persian and Moghul examples of both types. What's your period? Crusades?

[@zacharylindahl]

Thanks, your site has most of what I'm looking for to start on my mail making journey

[@lindybeige]

@h1zchan Direct strong sunlight onto mail can make it hot - that's why crusaders wore tabbards over their mail. English sun is very rarely that strong, though. Having to carry extra weight makes you hot from the effort alone, of course.

[@lindybeige]

@Franklolful See the mail section of my website.

[@lindybeige]

@Bankstercide Welding was done by heating things up in a forge. How could they do this with mail? Today we have spot-welding tools using electricity and high-pressure flammable gas.

[@lindybeige]

Mainly dinner parties, gymkhanas, knitting circles, that sort of thing.

[@EtzEchad]

You didn't mention that chain mail is still commonly used today. Butchers, for instance, will wear a chain shirt to protect themselves. You can buy a chain mail glove from Amazon for use when you are cooking. You can also buy a chain mail bikini there, if that's your thing. Useful stuff.

[@alganhar1]

I made my first suit of chainmail out of 6mm En45 spring steel washers, learned a lot from it. Like tailoring, and armpits, which I struggled with and never really resolved on that hauberk. My later hauberks and byrnies were better :P. Have to admit I stick to spring steel and closed ring rather than riveted. My reasoning is rather simple, economics. After all, it is not as if I need the suits for real combat, so the slight loss of strength using spring steel non riveted links isnt an issue, and it does not cost me a fortune... I can make a full suit with nothing more than a pair of pliers and some time :).

[@lindybeige]

@Savaril No answer to that one, other than 'it depends'.

[@lindybeige]

It is more comfortable and impressive to poor people, but you need a decent thickness of metal to be protective.

[@PhilJonesIII]

I guess the finer chain-mail would be good for removing body hair. Possibly more painful than arrows.

[@SamEvansCOM]

Yeah but you would always wear padding/clothes underneath anyway and the coif (or the part of chain mail that goes on your head) also has padding under it so it wouldn't pull your hair

[@lindybeige]

Like mine? A lot, but there are companies (like Get Dressed For Battle) that keep a whole village in India employed making lower quality mail at amazingly low prices.

[@lindybeige]

@IcEye89 I don't store mine on display. I just keep it in a bag. Yes, hair can get caught, but I just put up with it.

[@Kataphract0s]

Early plate armor was worn over maille. The Churburg armor is probably the best example of this. Eventually, maille was reduced to just being sewn into the joints of padding (the armpit and elbow) to protect places that plate armor couldn't.

[@JakobNorthblood]

I've seen well-executed tests that show that [chain]mail, at least long-sleeved mail, actually restricted movement more than plate armor. It was determined that this was because the weight of plate is more evenly distributed over the body (at lest the arms and shoulders) than mail.

[@RGVS1225]

You got mail

[@oRitchinal]

*chain mail I'm really fun at parties :D

[@hjorturerlend]

Ring mail*

[@GiacomodellaSvezia]

What's hate mail made of?

[@RGVS1225]

it's made of i-got-no-life alloy xD

[@AvoidTheCadaver]

+GiacomodellaSvezia Tears, lots and lots of Tears

[@Dhomazhir]

A man on the Armour Archive reported that, when he was at SCA Gulf Wars in the USA, he got a bit shivery when a cross breeze hit him. He was wearing a byrnie with a horsehair padded linen gambeson underneath. It was 90'F & 85% humidity. He was rather please at the effect. My personal favorite bit of armour is my 3 layer linen gambeson. It's so awesome for wearing while in armour in the heat of a Nevada summer.

[@nilloc93]

@HeirOfWallachia chain mail was moderately priced, so while the average peasant levy was not wearing it almost every knight, man at arms, mercenary or anyone else in the war business would have it. Picking up a dead guys chainmail was not always the best idea as the guy who was wearing it more that likely died because his was ripped open by a blade/pointy thing (chainmail is not invincible) and you might be better off wearing your not broken leather armor than broken chainmail. Also consider that loot was not always a first come first serve thing in many cases, and getting armor repaired after you loot it might be an issue unless the blacksmith of the town your army just captured was not killed in the subsequent looting.

[@cheesestyx945]

Leather armor is trash

[@cassmi87]

Yes, as in 'the old'. The symbol that looks like a 'Y' is, in this case, a variant form of thorne used in the Tudor period.

[@jamesroper4952]

I think we can all agree that chainmail is some pretty good stuff.

[@nocensorship8092]

theres this movie i think the last crusader? and he gets Beaten by many swordmen while on the ground. but his armor and padding keeps him nearly unharmed

[@lindybeige]

There's no trick to it. You just keep going. To make the grain go the other way on the sleeve would be more difficult (and possibly better, but authentic shirts don't do it).

[@MrDael01]

Plate armor made to fit the wearer does not slow him down much. But you'd still wear bits and pieces of chain mail to cover the gaps in the plate suit, or you'd wear a regular full chain mail underneath if the plate suit is only chest, arms, gauntlet etc.

[@lindybeige]

Just seen it. Impressive, especially for the price. Must have some mechanised way of making it. Seems to be sized for the USA market (55" chest!). It is costume armour, but a great costume.

[@MeroxNorway]

it really annoy me that they dont use proper made, iron, riveted chainlinks and human equivalents when they test effectiveness of chainmail these days. I suspect it was insanely effective when you consider how the old smiths made it. Or is that just me

[@Heritage367]

Back in the day, labor was the cheapest part of manufacturing, whereas today it's usually one of the most expensive. I think this is one of the reasons it's hard to get cool stuff like high quality chainmail

[@lindybeige]

@lordmat666 I reckon mine too 250 hours (small rings). When I finished I didn't know what to do with my hands when the telly was on.

[@Valandar2]

The only significant problem with chainmail / mail / maille is the weight. Contrary to most RPG data, a full suit (hauberk plus chausses) weighs as much as 70-80 lbs, whereas a finely fitted suit of plate for the same man weighs maybe 60 lbs...

[@goberdabelch]

unless you did it in 14 gauge steel, 13th century mail is slightly less than full plate actually because its made from lighter gauges

[@Valandar2]

goberdabelch Except that Medeival full plate itself is significantly lighter guages than we expect. Most suits people buy online or whatever, or are designed for modern re-enactment, are 16 guage to 12 guage. But actual Medeival suits tended to be 16 guage only on the breastplate and helmet, with the remainder around 20-22 guage. The only exception to this would be tournament jousting armors, which were as thick as modern reenactment armor.

[@goberdabelch]

not quite medieval armour was at a minimum 18 gauge on the arms and legs. 20/22 gauge is costume grade only even if it was only on the arms and legs, the point however is a comparison to mail, which i can say for certainty does not weigh 70-80 pounds the heaviest extant piece in a museum is only 30 pounds

[@Gilmaris]

Ulric letholdus But those rings overlap.

[@goberdabelch]

Gilmaris yes they do, it's a metal fabric, however the open space's in the center of the rings makes it lighter than the plate equivalent

[@lindybeige]

Ancient & medieval armour making -> Mail -> Garment patterns -> Armpits

[@lindybeige]

@paperboard1 I wouldn't wear a dagger on my back. It would be an open invitation to other people to draw it for me when I'm in the pub.

[@lindybeige]

AP Springs of Wolverhampton I think it was. It was some years ago. Might have been Birmingham.