Mail Coifs - not as simple as they seem

[@67Spectre]

After putting on that padding, I didn't know if you were preparing to put on a coif, or bring Parliament to order.

[@dlxmarks]

My thought was "So that's where judges' wigs came from."

[@vladymir1987]

or drive a WW2 era soviet tank for that matter

[@hiigara2085]

Lmao I knew what you meant when he stuck that on

[@xoose]

Still waiting for a follow up on this coif conundrum, 3 years later.

[@MsNikolas95]

oh darn, just saw this video for the first time and was gonna go look up the follow up video to this.

[@josephfox5136]

Same. I wonder if he made the cupped chin part and if it was illuminating. Seems helmets are the better way to go. Very confusing stuff.

[@kungfutze4321]

Check out Knyght Errant's video: m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3vMp4Gvib-pZrs

[@archerj.maggott1372]

The coif clearly needs to have been at least thinly padded underneath, but I think that in order to cover the chin, it probably also needs to have opened at the front or the back and tied shut somewhere, either behind the neck or to the side of the head or face. Also, since coifs were clearly worn underneath nasal helms, and enclosed helms and great helms seem to have developed from the nasal helm, I think coifs were probably worn under those subsequent types of helms too. As for why people apparently just went with the coif sometimes, I think it's because if you are wearing a great helm and you want to see better for some reason, you have no choice -- since great helms have no visors -- but to take off the great helm completely; I don't think men-at-arms actually *stopped* wearing helmets for a generation or two. Rather, I think it was just a matter of adjusting one's protective posture depending on the specific situation, since the need to see well and/or to communicate may have occasionally outweighed the need for maximum protection (as the same happens to be true in modern warfare). Later on, people of course wore bascinets with aventails and either klappvisors or pigface visors, and those would have been a step forward from a great helm with a coif underneath it, since your head would have still been pretty well protected if you removed your visor in order to see better. But before that, of course, many men-at-arms had worn a cervelliere, or later, a bascinet (which seems to have developed from the cervelliere) under a great helm, which would have also left your head pretty well protected if you took off the great helm, but clearly would have added up in terms of weight (coif + cervelliere/bascinet + great helm). Thus, the bascinet with visor and aventail worn by later generations of men-at-arms would have been a step forward for this reason as well (i.e. less weight and a better ability to adjust one's own protective posture depending on the circumstances).

[@louiscyfer6944]

naggot, they wore the cervelliere under the coif, that is why it appeared that they were only wearing the coif. lindy is just ignorantly running his mouth like usual.

[@spigotsandcogs]

That padding looks like a Russian tanker's helmet.

[@jameslangham9854]

+spigotsandcogs - same logic - it protects from blows

[@brianwyters2150]

I heard that German tankers wore black berets that acted like a crash helmet.

[@tomihaili8756]

Yeah but it wasn´t issued to the troops after the Polish campaign.

[@ewaholda1978]

spigotsandcogs : Also used by the Warsaw Pact after the war

[@Ignonym]

German tankers did actually have a proper crash helmet, but it was an ugly, hot, and thoroughly uncomfortable leather affair that was quickly dropped in favor of berets and, eventually, side caps.

[@zesox256]

A Sword is essentially a big iron bar. I can already hear the swords enthusiast screaming in agony.

[@rallis3937]

It is technically correct though so...

[@lukericker8325]

Rallis technically no. Swords are steel. Which is an alloy with Iron as a main component. But it would be incorrect to call them iron.

[@rallis3937]

@@lukericker8325 steel is just iron with carbon

[@lukericker8325]

Rallis I did say that. It is made of steel. Not “technically correct” to say its just an iron bar.

[@rallis3937]

@@lukericker8325 well ok maybe not «technically» correct, but definetily essentialy correct. Iron and steel as almost the same thing, only steel is slightly better at being iron.

[@apieceoftoast1751]

Your first piece of padding looks more like a soviet tank headwear

[@shrekas2966]

but soviets still used medieval technology in ww2. vatniks/fufaihas, i dont know how they call them are basicaly gambesons. tankist caps are arming caps.

[@YourMiddleBroPhil]

it looks like one of those old fashioned powdered wigs they used to wear

[@BlackMasterRoshi]

Fabric still behaves like fabric and human heads haven't distorted over time.

[@Loromir17]

Well, vatniks were warm AND offered some protection in melee, while staying relatively light, compared to what germans wore during russian winters. Although, it wasn't a uniform - militia/guerrillas wore it. Some people still wear them, actually.

[@thomasgourley3886]

BlackMasterRoshi

[@TarDeisa]

I have a couple of ideas on this topic. For one the main reason why mail coifs were big in the crusades is because even back then the middle east was hot, far hotter than what most europeens were used to. And in that wheather you don't want have to wear a metal bucket on year head which pretty much boils your brain. On the other hand does a coif have enough protection against attacks, especially when combined with a tightly bound turban, which would be my idea on what kind of padding they used. A turban can be very resistant while not being to big. also it is not as brainmelting hot as a padding cap. this also could explain the differently made coifs. maybe instead of an expensive preshaped coif they used scarf like pieces of chainmail to wrap around their heads, fixing everything with a bandana or circlet. Also on the topic on why it was so popular during the crusades, besides the heat. Their enemys had very weak bows, different from an english longbow, they could barely penetrate any armor. and wouldn't penetrate a well made chainmail. their swords alike, they often had sabres, curved backwards. their primary focus is cutting not hacking, nor thrusting they too had problems penetrating chainmail. And from what I know their primary focus in battle was to cut open wounds in the stomach or throat to kill their enemys. With a coif that is covering not only your head but also your whole neck and throat combined with a standart chainmail they couldn't attack the throat or the stomach rendering the sabres almost completely useless. The rest is fashion.

[@pmk198908]

bump

[@SkyripperThaBird]

Then comes the question, if they were avoiding wearing big warm metal buckets on their head, what stops chainmail from getting as warm? I mean, far as we know, the crusaders didn't wear tabards only because it looked good, but rather the reason that metal of any kind gets really hot when you're standing out in the glazing sun all day, and then feel like putting your hand down on your body. Not a very smart move. Well, yes, perhaps it is as you said, and for all we know we both could be terribly wrong.

[@GodzThirdLeg]

+Einherjar Skadisson Well a helmet blocks air circulation much more than a coif would. A helmet probably would have become like a sauna, since it traps heat and sweat inside with very few openings that allow for fresh air to come in. A coif would allow the air to flow much more freely around your head.

[@bozo5632]

That may be part of it, but crusaders also often wore helmets over padding and a coif.

[@FlumenSanctiViti]

I was thinking the same thing. No way would a small or weak arrow penetrate a coif. And wearing a buckets on their head in hot climate would cook their brains. Thus, coifs!

[@nikolai60]

There are two basic things that we often forget about when talking about medieval armor. The first is the fact that few people could purchase a full set of armor from the beginning. Because of this they would first purchase their padded armor and use it for basic protection, afterwards they would add on the chain maille layers over top which would serve to add more protection than just the padded components. Finally they would add on any plates or helmet that would be purchased at the end and likely be the most expensive part. This meant that each individual part had to be able to fit with everything else since you wouldn't want to purchase the same thing over and over again. The second, is practicality. Many times throughout history people are willing to sacrifice Perfect protection in exchange for more Comfort, or the ability to go on the March for an extended period of time without being essentially killed by your own armor. As such people had to make compromises in terms of what provides the best protection, and what is light enough or easy enough to use to not hinder you getting to the battle. This is why Norman style nasal caps are incredibly common throughout all the ages, even when superior helmets are available. they do not provide great all-round protection, and in many ways are just a simple bowl over your head, but they're light and fairly comfortable without hindering your senses.

[@corazzinatanner498]

Solid point on mobility over protection. In Iraq in close in cities, we would wear all four ballistic plates. Afghanistan on the other hand is a lot of up and down, running and gunning, so we take the side plates out and trim the fat of the gear we carry.

[@tommyscott8511]

I feel like mobility might also be more important in melee combat because you need swiftness and manoeuvrable gear to get powerful, effective strikes in

[@louiscyfer6944]

nikolai, they didn't have plate armor at this time yet. that is not how it worked.

[@haroldbalzac6336]

They would most likely buy a helmet first, seeing as one downward strike, or a lucky thrust would kill you.

[@meyearsago-lc8bq]

There's a gravure in video which shows some plate protection. Full plate armor was invented and popularised much later, yeah, but people added some plates on their mail in 1300's.

[@Madkite]

Oh dear lord, when you put that on at the start I nearly dies laughing.

[@enjibkk6850]

Took me 3 minutes to recover, got into another round of laughter when he puts on the half finished mail XD

[@SkeleCCXL]

lindybeige is the only KZbinr I can and do binge re-watch pretty much indefinitely ive probably watched this video at least 3 times

[@virginiahansen320]

A coif might be cooler on a battlefield in the Middle East. Maybe the relative thinness of the padding and the use of a coif instead of a helmet was related to thermal considerations, hence why it was developed during the Crusades? Also, maybe the reason some of them coifs have the mail going in different directions and have bands on them is because they weren't tailor made like the kind we think of, maybe some coifs were strips of mail that would be wrapped around the head, chin, and neck of the wearer, similar to a Middle Eastern head wrap? Maybe the Crusades were the inspiration for the whole thing...

[@MonkeyJedi99]

I lke the heat explanation, though it may not be true. The different directions of mail were an art short-cut.

[@DarthTrazyn]

@@MonkeyJedi99 artistic short cut or not... some of the coifs in the pictures he shows look like there is a flap that goes over the chin covering the throat

[@pwnmeisterage]

My understanding is that armored fighters would take off their helmets outside combat but continue to wear the coifs for some protection at all times. So I suspect the coif and padding/leather would have more emphasis on comfort, the heavy metal you put over top of it would take care of the rest.

[@louiscyfer6944]

you are all idiots talking out of your asses like lindy. he is a moron. they were wearing cervellieres under the coif, so they had impact protection from a metal helmet. lindy just didn't bother to look into it, nor any of you.

[@anonymousbosch9265]

Virginia Hansen I wonder if there wasn’t a degree of wrapping like a metal head scarf that may have been a stylish flourish picked up during the crusades as esprit de corps among crusaders

[@jackwalters3928]

Your coif is so well made, it can be enchanted with magic now.

[@MisterDusterix]

xD

[@ThePeacemaker848]

+Jack Walters SCIENCE!

[@patneary4398]

hemp

[@patneary4398]

and science. never underestimate science

[@jna3341]

+Jack Walters Is fortify illusion a good enchantment?

[@3216100]

12:23 erm... I think I may have solved the mystery of that "tuck" shown in the Morgan Bible. This may be completely daft, but that arrangement looks exactly like the method for turning a tube of fabric into a balaclava. (The company Buff Headwear has a tutorial video on how to do this, mind you, it's not very intuitive.) Conceivably a tube of maille would be easier to manufacture and more resistant to degradation than a cap with the face cut out. And, the "lace" you pointed out would solve a crucial flaw that I've encountered with the arrangement, where the fabric on either side of the face loosens and bunches up in one's peripheral vision. I know it's been a while since you made this video, but I believe it bears some further investigation.

[@Vagolyk]

There must be some trickery here. The guys, who couldn't make pants wont make an intricate pattern for this stuf either.

[@furqueue9590]

Only thing is that mail wasn't manufactured, it was hammered by hand

[@geoschorsch1875]

@@furqueue9590 "manufactured" is not the same as "handmade" (by a professional)? Did I miss something?

[@furqueue9590]

@@geoschorsch1875 Pieces of mail were hand-put together towards the exact fit of a person. What are you finding hard - or are you just trying to be a smartass?

[@anonymousbosch9265]

r3216100 I wonder if there wasn’t a degree of wrapping like a metal head scarf that may have been a stylish flourish picked up during the crusades as esprit de corps among crusaders

[@Kingofredeyes]

"How is a coif better than a helmet" First thing that comes to mind if I am Crusading down in the desert of the Middle East a coif can breathe better since it's not a single piece of metal but several links and can allow air flow. It also can connect to the rest of the mail armor worn making it harder to knock off. Also whatever padding you wear under it would likely absorb moisture and sweat meaning you won't have it dripping down in your eyes like it might do with a helmet. It would also be easier to pack imo since a coif can collapse in shape where as a helmet is set in it's shape. Just a few things I would consider.

[@jabberw0k812]

As far as the padding, you could probably wear that with a helmet as well, so whatever advantage it gives by itself isn't exclusive to a coif.

[@liamboland8158]

I wore/wear alot of stuff on my hard hat. At nights, which I spent 8 years working, there would be 2 head torches, ear defenders, safety goggles, safety glasses in a pouch on the back which also had spare batterys and writing implements. People would comment on how heavy it was but it never bothered me. After being off work for 18months my neck which was a solid lump of hard muscle previously has become soft and I can easily squeeze my tensed neck as before I couldn't. You get used to the extra weight and your muscles grow, saying that I wore my helmet all for 8 hours a day sometimes 12, I doubt someone would be using a coif that much but it's something to think about

[@VampireSquirrel]

well the people found wearing coifs were dead...

[@jimslater8685]

Rachel Evans what about the knight in the last crusade?

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Es dead now, isn't he? And was wearing one at the time - must've been rubbish.

[@kingjames4886]

then again, if they were saved by a coif they likely wouldn't be found dead wearing one.

[@machfiver753]

Then they weren't much good for giving the owner eternal life then it seems...

[@castlecallahan1769]

Yes since they wouldn’t live for thousands of years

[@brokenspielt]

Freeze at 10:00 "We are in search of knights who will join me in my court of Camelot!" The resemblance is uncanny

[@xenosmoke8915]

“It could grip it by the husk!”

[@josephstalin4143]

Unladen swallows

[@ronjeremy522]

One thing about the thickly padded coif is that it looks absolutely ridiculous, which could play a part in the reason why people had thinner ones. Never underestimate the desire of a warrior to look cool. As someone in the military you spend a lot of your time around your close friends who will rip you apart with banter if you look stupid. Maybe they didn't want to be the guy who shows up for formation only to have his entire unit laugh at him for looking like a big headed buffoon.

[@phreakazoith2237]

if everyone had to wear thick padding to survive nobody would laugh wouldn't they? Same with the funny looking helmet's face covering in the other clip.

[@purplefood1]

It's probably wiser to not underestimate a person's desire to live.

[@VanderNugget]

In the long run though, whatever looks badass is whatever works. The victorious guy always looks badass standing over the fallen enemy.

[@jannegrey]

@@VanderNugget Mostly true. However really rich knights were known to have many types of armor. Including ceremonial ones. And if an idiot who was not that rich wanted to look (almost) as cool as a knight, he might have bought (he can only have one, since he is not rich) something that looked quite cool, but as armor goes it would be terrible. Stupid people exist, and vanity is not very rare, combine it with the luck, and you can have an idiot, with stupid but cool looking armor, who was among these people who won the battle, and even has the bruises to prove it - from chafing, but who cares? ;)

[@Auriam]

@@jannegrey agreed, who knows how much of the armor in museums today was actually just ceremonial or for showing off in parades?

[@panomies5933]

That life of brian reference, i laughed my ass off :D

[@luizhenriquealves9755]

Biggus Dickus approved of this

[@factbeaglesarebest]

What’s that? Love Easter egg like references can you explain what he said thy was related to that

[@Zelaoming]

You think mail coifs are not as simple as they seem? Try femail coifs!

[@sirhakonik6071]

Lol

[@JohnChoidotOrg]

Ba-dum-chh~~

[@tikkidaddy]

I don't think they polish those....some give headaches😃

[@CharacterMatterz]

I see what you've done here...

[@SixHolyStrings]

10/10 90's hack comedian joke

[@DARIVSARCHITECTVS]

The leather cord around the head stabilized the coif such that it would not shift out of position, acting as sort of a headband. The mail was attached to the padding underneath, making a composite. The lower face (chin) mail was pointed to the upper section, and could be removed on one side for better ventilation when not needed. A coif needs a mantle to protect the neck, and this was also lightly padded. The amount of padding was somewhere between what you demonstrated, as it was a compromise. This is probably the best interpretation out there because it WORKS. I am an armourer myself, and if there's one thing we know, if it didn't work, it wasn't done that way.

[@kijijiallin]

I'd be sweating so much with all that shit on my head.

[@propanedaddy5577]

I guess the crusades did take place in a hot climate

[@kijijiallin]

+Propane Daddy still though. Hot as hell, regardless of outside temperature.

[@Gloin79]

mail is pretty cool if you keep it out of the sun

[@MacCoalieCoalson]

Gloin79 in battle you'd probably be in the sun, though.

[@gwynjustice6664]

KIJIJI ALLIN better sweating than bleeding.

[@Kitties_are_pretty]

You say there are few male coifs left, but might there be female coifs? I notice (because of the patriarchy) chain male comes up a lot, but I've never ONCE heard of chain female. So much work to be done.

[@imperatoraugustus9970]

It must be lost to the pages of that misogynist His-story. Her-story was not allowed because of rampant sexism and the weekly double secret patriarchy meetings no doubt

[@Getoffmearse]

+Imperator Augustus I changed my major to Herstory because fuck HIS-story. It was written by a bunch of misogynistic, cis males. Some people and not knowing their privilege, I swear by the bosoms of Anita Sarkisian.

[@levihoward9411]

This is a joke right

[@Tombombadillo999]

Joshua Brooks lmao.. u killed me hahahahhaha

[@bailord8249]

I admit it: I was made preemptively mad by this.

[@Twirlyhead]

Have you considered using felt (the material rather than the past tense of the verb to feel). Felt packs a lot of dense padding into less thickness and is known to have been used in armour.

[@NamlessSaint]

I just love this guy i can just listen to all his videos and be not only interested but reach a level of peace and meditative joy....

[@theCodyReeder]

Great info! Earned a sub from me!

[@mustysheep3977]

wow, didnt expect to find you here

[@bradley3549]

Ditto. But I didn't expect to find myself here either but here I am, about 50 videos deep into Lindybeige...

[@TheRtHonEdmundBurke]

Lindybeige, Cody's Lab, now all we need is Grand Illusions.

[@EnEmerson]

Hi Cody! Love your videos!

[@eryllflynn4856]

Cody, I'm so glad you found Lindybeige because I've been watching Both of you for quite some time! Great minds truly think alike.

[@ServantofBaal]

Hope you actually see this, but as it seems nobody else has made any suggestions to how you would make a coif that could fit over your chin and neck, I propose that you might make a coif that opens in the back; the point that should see less action would be the structural weak point, and you pull the coif onto your face and hook it up at the back of the head and neck. I don't particularly know of any great disadvantages to this, and only strikes to the very back of the head and neck could potentially jeopardize your safety. *Again, I hope you see this comment, Lindy*

[@rufushowell]

"you MUst use padding otherwise they're FLIPPING useless" favorite line.

[@Earthwatcher57]

This is real history, investigating and testing, rather than simply accepting what we're told or presented with on TV, and it's ongoing, not concluding neatly as TV programmes think they must do. I love your videos. Sooner or later the TV people will come with a brilliant deal, but never forget these KZbin roots because the TV trade-off is a sacrifice of control. Others always think they know better.

[@mcchuggernaut9378]

2 years later...Were any authentic examples of these ever found? What did you conclude? Did you make one in the chin-covering style? So many questions...

[@seabass8154]

@@kristofantal8801 That is an interesting picture. It does seem quite unwieldy.

[@kristofantal8801]

@@seabass8154 And that's how it works. Lindy was wrong, he didn't look after it on that topic. I would rather suggest you to watch Knyght Errant's (response) video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnPZmX9-o7Rsfqc The coif consisted of several parts and fit snugly on the chin because an extra element was attached to it, called "aventail". Their heads are so round because they put a hidden helmet (called "cervelliere ", or skull cap) under their coif to protect their skulls. It’s in the Bible, too, only Lindy didn’t show it.

[@Returnofthemick]

A year on from the original publication of this video Lloyd. Any chance you'll revisit this topic soon? I'm curious to see if you've made any progress or drawn any new conclusions. Love the content btw. Cheers.

[@danbrown6224]

I'm from the future, and the answer is no

[@thrand6760]

Im from the further future... still no

[@MegaMGstudios]

@@thrand6760 I'm from the further further future, still no

[@fullgeekTV]

MegaMGstudios sadly

[@Mrdevs96]

lol

[@thorsteinwolfgangson2178]

Get some thick Balaclavas and put on multiple of them to determine which thickness you would like to have for your padding.

[@js312raf]

"Come on! Who threw that? Who threw that stone? Come on." "She did! She did! He did! He! He. He. Him. Him. Him. Him. He did." ;)

[@josephstalin4143]

Thanks for the Monty Python reference

[@dELTA13579111315]

Ni!

[@LordSniggles]

JEHOVAH JEHOVAH JEHOVAH

[@dELTA13579111315]

@@LordSniggles **throws stone with religious intent**

[@charlottesetsu]

It's also worth noting that Lindy's ultra-cap would get EXTRAORDINARILY hot during combat. I do a spot of re-enactment, and the arming caps we wear under our helmets (we use solid helms because of the mercenary company we play) are no more than a centimetre of quite dense padding.

[@neutralfellow9736]

+Beet McGee I did not have such experiences. It does get warm but not so extreme as to use caps lock.

[@charlottesetsu]

Neutral Fellow I think you've misunderstood me

[@neutralfellow9736]

Beet McGee Oh, now I re read and saw that you meant the very thick Lindy cap :) My bad.

[@TheFridge]

I suspect that the section that runs under the chin is a flap that is attached near the ear, thus allowing the coif to be snug fitting whilst also being able to be removed.

[@lunhil12]

I imagine a cloth lined leather headpiece under it would have been practical enough.

[@HH-dd2xq]

The period when the coif-only look becomes more common in the contemporary artwork coincides with the time that the Cervelliere (metal skullcap) became popular. I believe this answers several of the questions that he brings up in this video. People depicted with what appears to be only a coif for head protection probably have a Cervelliere on underneath. This could also explain why the padded arming caps were generally not massive and stuffed with huge amount of padding like the one he made. In regards to the Visby skulls, I think the most likely explanation is that these soldiers were probably wearing helmets that were taken and the mail simply left behind. That, or they were simply poor and a coif is all they could afford.

[@ericferguson9989]

That padded thing looks like the Soviet Era tanker's helmet.

[@geeksqueak7123]

Form typically follows function.

[@Isalys555]

My theory is that the mail coif was intended to protect you against pigeons.

[@nickhighland799]

+Renkin42 (thebluemarauder) but wouldn't it's air speed velocity also be a factor? also if it's laden or unladen?

[@thewingedporpoise]

+Renkin42 (thebluemarauder) yes but if some European swallows were carrying a coconut that would be pretty bad too

[@CristiNeagu]

Who is this guy? How come he has 190000 subscribers and i never heard of him? How come he's so unknown and yet so informative and funny? Whence did he appeareth unto my recommendeth listh? Subscribed.

[@leavy]

Yeah he's all over my recommended vids, very suddenly. And yeah, totally subbin dis

[@ThePeacemaker848]

+Cristi Neagu Welcome, you will enjoy this channel.

[@frequencydecline5250]

+Cristi Neagu "informative" is arguable

[@stephenballard2560]

It is two pieces of mail. The chin piece ties to the head piece like a head band type thinger. Also coifs were cheaper. That's why they went back to them. The rich still wore the helmets and even coifs under the helmets at times to protect their chin without limiting vision. Your channel is awesome btw, I hope this helps!

[@Virtrial]

A possibility for wearing a coif instead of a helmet may be that the crusaders wanted more air flow to their heads in the arid regions of the Levant/Anatolia.

[@MedievalGenie]

+Virtrial Except there were battles (such as Hastings) where knights wore coifs on temperate conditions.

[@neutralfellow9736]

+PcGenie2 I am not aware of armored men being depicted without helmets at Hastings, all of them are depicted with helmets.

[@lazorkat]

+Neutral Fellow And didn't they have coif underneath the helmet?

[@neutralfellow9736]

Tholfend Some did, some others perhaps did not.

[@lazorkat]

Neutral Fellow Yeah, but head would be pretty heavy then, right?

[@AnthonyBerkshire]

In the german historian museum in Berlin there is a Persian armour used by the Ottomans and they wear huge helmets because underneath it they had huge turbans. That must be uncomfortable to move your head...

[@AnthonyBerkshire]

***** What do you mean by that?

[@AnthonyBerkshire]

***** It was a Persian armour and the helmet was huge and in the little information was written that it was because of the helmets. Come visit Berlin and check the museum out. It is worth it. "Deutsch historisches museum".

[@SoundlessScream]

Anthony ofWindsor Mmm! Interesting!

[@gazbomb6832]

The original bigwigs perhaps

[@PainSquared]

Mmm! Quite.

[@widowpeak6142]

That thing ended looking like a powdered wig XD Keep up the good work, Lindy ^^

[@Ricksdetrix]

Perhaps they switched during the Crusades because of the heat of the middle east and Africa, or because it was cheaper and easier to make/used less materials or lower quality materials

[@demomanchaos]

And he never came back to this.

[@RubberyCat]

He didn't?

[@captaintyrrell6428]

can you blame him?

[@RubberyCat]

@@captaintyrrell6428 Well, it would have been interesting, and he was clearly on to something. After all, it could set a new and true standard for live-action movies and reenactments.

[@captaintyrrell6428]

@RubberyCat- In this instance he was out of his depth and waffling a lot (and he knew it). There are literally hundreds of medieval British tombs featuring knights wearing coifs in both 3d statues and 2d brass panels... His experiment/abortion of padding could have been averted by a bit more research than a probable Google image search.

[@RubberyCat]

@@captaintyrrell6428 You mean he was utterly wrong this time?

[@danielchalmers9815]

When you turned your head to the camera wearing the mail coif, the chainmail flapped about i wanted you to say " Armor, because i'm worth it"

[@gonzaloayalaibarre]

Hyped for the next video on coifs.

[@chriswinters2848]

Hello Lindy! I recently did some research and experiments myself and came to a revelation regarding the coif shape and how to get it from today's "movie version" (11:00) to "closely historic" (05:40). It can be done with normal padding (as well as that metal brain cap) underneath, only adds two laces, and only needs the wearer to tie one bow, in the same spot you'd tie a modern hoodie. The best of it: You can still throw the coif back like a hood easily without undoing any laces! I gathered the first thing to rot away and never be recovered were probably laces, so I added two to make the coif look and work very much like in the paintings. (Although the top concentric looking part at 12:38 almost certainly is an added coifette ontop there, and I don't have one here.) It makes the entire thing very comfortable to wear and allows for a lot of head movement. Would you like me to tape how its done?

[@eyegrinder94]

Didn't they have a flap of some sort that would be fastened on one side of the face, and then pulled across the chin and the mouth, and then fastened on the other side? I remember seeing images where this reaches under the chin, and seems to hold the coif closer to the neck

[@lindybeige]

+eyegrinder94 Yes, sometimes called a 'ventail'. That does not seem to be what is pictured in the examples I gave, though.

[@Jabrwock]

+Lindybeige Maybe the strap across the temple was what the ventail attached to, or held a flap that hung down over the ventail attachment point? That would explain why the paintings looked like the chin section looked 'wrapped' around the fact. Doesn't solve the neck issue though, nor does it resemble the statues.

[@madman11893]

avintail seems to come in at later century around the 13c 14c and the maile of the avintail was often sewn on to the edge

[@nuancedhistory]

+Lindybeige I think it appears a lot in "Byzantine"and Turkish art though, albeit I'd have to check some examples.

[@Schralenberger]

+eyegrinder94 Yes(and no). What your describing is a variant. Widely used, but by no meanings universal.

[@isaacdouglas7826]

They might have been good against arrows or spears, they would be lighter and more flexible than plate helmets. Though they would still need padding (of course) to reduce the percussive effects of a projectile, the mail would stop the penetration.

[@TheGiantRobot]

Yeah, I think you're onto something. It seems like you're most likely to be struck by a spear or arrow, not a sword. The other thing is every depiction of the coif shows lots of neck. The coif is generally for neck protection and to fill in the gaps of a helmet in modern recreation, so I expect the depictions of guys without helmets were probably warriors who also had helmets but didn't want to use them or they were knocked off or damaged, or it was artistic license.

[@braincell4536]

Arrows and Spears can easily pierce mail. But it can protect against slashing attacks. And most especially glancing blows

[@CoffeeSnep]

Why did helmets stop having holes in the sides for your hearing? In ancient times we see them both in the Corinthian helm as well as the Roman helms. So why did they stop? It's not often you get stabbed in the ear from the side, and the holes don't have to be big enough for that anyway, so why not put holes in them again? Did they have something against hearing or something?

[@sylvainjacquin2347]

The Romans eventually did add ear protections on their helmets in the form of flaps and so did the Migration people have them.

[@LooniJoose]

For integrity

[@kurtn4819]

PLEASE please post Part II as soon as possible! VERY interesting. Can't wait to see how you resolve this project!

[@strongback6550]

Have you considered that their neck and throat areas might have been heavily padded up to their chin in order to distribute the weight around more evenly? If I was going to fight, that's like one of the areas I'd focus on defending quite a lot.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Essentially a metal ski-mask in design. Also, it looks like - in that bible - the artist depicts them wearing the mail as one does a Keffiyeh or similar 'desert' style head scarf oh-so-popular with the tacticool folks nowadays. Much similar 'tucks' and folds. Perhaps they actually could be folded in such a way. Perhaps they are not 'tailored' to a certain shape at all but are just a large rectangular sheet. This would make production easier - I do not mean ALL mail coifs of course but it makes perfect sense that a 'knight on the cheap' would find a way to make it work sensibly. Simply a square or rectangular sheet of mail folded like a keffiyeh or similar head scarf. Someone with an authentic sheet let me know. I'm dying to know if I've discovered something.

[@bordershader]

I'm with you on that. The way they look in the images is very much putting me in mind of a hijab, which is much the same as what you're suggesting. Just without being wrapped around, though, as I can't imagine the extra weight would be workable.

[@ChoppersModelworks]

I was thinking a similar thing. If you look at the ladies head gear or wrapped scarves they have the similar wrap lines. This would also make the thin strip a more purposeful as if the end tapered and one tucked the tie under their chin it could tie the end and also act like a somewhat chin strap to keep from unraveling. Think of a tapered banner shaped mail strip and then just simply start by holding the thick section on your cheek and then wrap it around maybe starting to go over your head after going around your neck would give a usale wrap of armor. These would then also be very easy to make as they would be maybe just two lengths and would fit anyone.

[@superturkeylegs]

Maybe that kaffiyeh design was taken during the Crusades.

[@rubenb8653]

I was thinking the same thing. To cover the face with a kefiyeh you need to fold it diagonally tho. Seems kinda shitty wearing a double layer of chains...

[@MilitantOldLady]

That padded under-hat looks like it would be brilliant for a serious night's piss up.

[@GabelhelmSogarbraten]

I stop by this video every now and then it always cheers me up

[@Worstplayer]

Maybe those skulls had thin padding because those with thicker padding didn't get killed?

[@611_hornet5]

"You're not going to cut through it!" Don't tell that to the katana fan-boys.

[@Lyuze]

+Lord Roc *didnt get the joke*

[@Lyuze]

***** what the... bruh, my comment was telling you that he was making a joke, what are you still doing here

[@JnSobre]

Your padding coif looks like a Renaissance wig, maybe that was the other function of those wigs, to protect agains slashing things :D

[@rutabagasteu]

Court wig.

[@TheGoodCrusader]

Knowlage

[@13thcentury]

blunt trauma, they were useless against slashing things. Which backs up your comment if the toffs of the time were defending against stones and bottles etc lol

[@ldidkovsky864]

Mr Beige! I hail from new york city and there is a fantastic special armor exhibit featuring a collection of Maximillian (1459-1519) at the Met, where a coif is on display much like the one you made in this video. I couldnt help but think back to when i saw this and found a huge amount of appreciation for their inclusion of something so rare. they also included armor made specifically for jousting with mechanical parts in the breast plate that im sure you would appreciate. cheers man i love your channel! let me know if you would like pictures from the exhibit

[@ThatNateGuy]

Brilliant Life of Brian reference.

[@radoToy]

+Nate Wynd (ThatNateGuy) why so few likes???

[@curorisluodi]

Art for art's sake is an empty phrase. Art for the sake of truth, art for the sake of the good and the beautiful, that is the faith that i am searching for.

[@ftlo586]

Amen

[@coupledyetivonvanderburg5385]

+Alex Ikhsanov The word is "anthropomorphic". It means "of human form".

[@GurniHallek]

+Justin Bernal Gives me flashbacks of Civ4.

[@koenhirayama6471]

+Justin Bernal I was just playing civ 4 an hour ago, when I saw that quote. Fucking weird...

[@MasterofTongs]

Why should art have to be for the sake of one individual purpose? Why not just settle for it as a means of conveying the human condition/experience? Also, what makes any of you think that something is true just because it is a saying?

[@sonny19931]

11:18 When you shake your head with the half finished coif on you look like Uma Thurman in Pulp Fiction, it's lovely

[@lindybeige]

+sonny19931 Now THAT, I did not expect.

[@johnindermuehle7632]

I think one advantage of having mail that isn't so closely tailored to your neck is that it offers more protection. It creates a buffer space. The weapon has to move all that mail in towards your neck in order to make contact, which will slow it down. In addition, as it's doing that, the mail will inevitably fold in on itself, effectively doubling the thickness. Sure it's slightly more unwieldy, but I think it's definitely a worthy trade off.

[@NoahSpurrier]

I would not use your first impression of the weight of the mail on your head and neck as an indicator that your first design must be too thick or heavy. Always your equipment will feel too clumsy and heavy when you first try it on. It can take a week or more before your muscles become accustomed to an unfamiliar load. I am reminded of the clutch on Ducati motorcycles which feel absurdly stiff and heavy if you have not been riding for a while. They almost feel unusable. In fact, I would get cramps in my forearms when riding in city streets where I had to use the clutch a lot. A lot of people go through a lot of trouble replacing the clutch cylinder to “fix” this. But if you stick with it and ride with the clutch as designed you will find that after a week you don’t even notice it at all... it’s the same when pulling a cross-now. At first it feels wrong. Soon it feels right. And shooting slugs out of a shotgun - at first you get bruises on your shoulder and the whole experience just seems crazy. After some regular practice it’s no big deal.

[@TheSystemaSystem]

Hearing that last one about the shotties makes me warrant giving shotguns another try.

[@CoffeeSnep]

I'm a dishwasher where I work at the moment. I used to whine and groan at sticking my hands in sanitizing solution hot enough to poach an egg, but now I barely feel it! As long as I don't keep them in there for long, that is. Also, I don't get wrinkly grandpa hands from the water anymore either! Fun fact: when your hands get all wrinkly from the water, it also makes you much more vulnerable to cuts! I don't know the science behind it, but that's what happens to me!

[@bobfry5267]

Ah, the heady days 0f 1978 when I carried a pocket of Ducati 450 clutch springs to replace (in the car park) the ones that I de-tempered on my ride to the pub. The standard SS ones just didn't cope at all. My left hand could crush even really big biscuits. I could almost operate a Jota clutch. I now have a hydraulic clutch as I am old and feeble, and operate it with one finger.

[@Catubrannos]

Nah, padded stuff really only needs to be thick enough to take the sting out or at least prevent the rings being driven into you. Ultimately it isn't meant to soak up blows, it's meant to act as a defence to all the blows you don't block with your shield - given that we're in the mail era. Another thing is that thinner padding means a blow is more likely to slide off the mail. Too thick and the blow can sink into the padding plus too thick and you're adding a massive heat sink to your head. Gambesons can be thick, at least the ones worn on their own with maybe jack chains, but anything under armour would have been thinner as chain takes a huge amount of force out of a blow and doesn't need a lot of padding underneath to be effective.

[@bobfry5267]

@@Catubrannos Not a thing that I would care to test unless I was the one with the mace or axe, testing which was best at absorbing a crushing blow. Newton rules.

[@Sen_Kanashimi]

The padding wouldn't have to be that substantial would it? Maybe 5-6 layers of that wool at most, as, correct me if I'm wrong, the cut will be halted by the mail and then spread out over the surface, meaning it doesn't have to stop a 'big iron bar' impact but more like a slightly lighter strike from a flat head mallet as the impact force is spread out, meaning that less padding would be needed than from a direct strike

[@samevans8922]

Sen Kanashimi Not quite, rather than spreading out, the force would probably be mostly applied directly to the body. Remember, if the padding is quite thick, it would spread spread out the force more. The coif alone, however, is thin and metal. The metal can't compress like a thick padding could. The thick padding wastes a large amount of energy just compressing, and it can spread the force fairly evenly. The metal on the chain mail, however, because it can't compress nearly as well won't have to waste nearly as much energy on compressing and all that energy instead will be mostly concentrated into a small area. It's probably worth mentioning also, that chain mail is made up of very small sections, and the thick padding (in this case a coif) is made up of one solid piece. This also helps the void to evenly distribute the force over a large area.

[@razor1uk610]

have some one hit your hand with a ruler, then wear a thin cotton glove on a hand, get that hit the same, then try both a cotton glove and for example, a winter glove together and be hit again - how much is the difference in pain between the them ?

[@falcons1988]

Interesting. Regards your, as not yet revealed, hypothesis. Throughout history there has been and always will be a trade off between protection vs manoeuvrability, sight, hearing and breathing. Finding the right balance is always difficult. I have worn many different helmets from across the centuries. throughout human history, if I had to choose one, I would choose the classical Roman Legionary helmet. (Maybe using kevlar rather than metal but that is just hypothetical). I say this because I think it has got the balance right. The helmets from the medieval that encase the head, offer great protection, but you can't breathe, see or hear - they feel quite claustrophobic. The visor was improvement but being able to hear is a problem. Obviously modern warfare is quite different because bullets and bombs are the order of the day, helmets are designed to deflect bullets and shrapnel rather than stop them. Another point, which is often overlooked, is the effect of concussion. Any blow to the skull, be it a pole arm, sword or even an arrow has the ability to knock you out. While the arrow, for example, may not penetrate; it is heavy and travelling at c.150 mph; it is going to hurt. How many cricketers have been concussed after being hit in the helmet by a cricket ball travelling at 80mph? A few. There has been a big thing about it right across sport, particularly the NFL, even as they wear padded helmets. Going back to the padded coifs, the big advantage over the helmet, is for the two aforementioned explanations. Visibility, hearing and breathing is greatly improved. The mail, coming up round the chin is akin to the styles of plate. Like I said, it doesn't matter what you wear on your head, one blow and you could be knocked out, then finished off. Using the information of head trauma, that we have through modern science, set up some mannequins in different armours and helmets and measure the force from direct impacts to the head of different weapons, a poleaxe, axe, mace, sword, morning star, arrow and bolt. Examine what the results be in terms of concussion, not just cuts and breaks.

[@RealLuckless]

+falcons1988 Yes, the aspect of balance in armour is a rather important one, and is at times overlooked even today when building modern armour. We have loads of examples from the last several decades of soldiers simply ditching vital parts to armour systems that would have otherwise saved them on the grounds that they're flipping heavy and hot to lug around. The amount of time that one spends IN combat, even while out on war, is relatively small. As such it is very easy to decide that "Hey, this heavy, hot, and awkward thing? yeah,... It really isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things, so I'll just leave this here..." Another important aspect to armour is that it isn't something that only needs to protect you, but also needs to allow you to still fight. We've had the technology to make effectively armoured barrels, which would be dreadfully difficult to kill a man hiding inside of, but would be rather useless when it came to trying to kill someone while you're protected by it. So Lindy's first go at the armour? Honestly I don't think the biggest flaw is the strain on the neck, as getting more of the coif done would make it far better balanced than it is, and offset some of the currently exaggerated force, but rather I think the biggest flaw in armour like that is going to be heat stroke. I'm Canadian, and I don't wear clothing that would insulate as much as that thing must even in the dead of winter here.

[@falcons1988]

+RealLuckless Heatstroke or heat exhaustion is important. In the Northern European cold winter climates is one thing, but certainly in the middle-east. The 'great-helms', jeepers imagine fighting in that thing in the middle-east. Hearing, Breathing and Sight is difficult enough, but the added heat as well. Fair play to the guys who fought in it.

[@Rekaert]

Ahh, nearly three years later and I keep coming back to this just for that reveal of the super-padded coif that looks like a cross between a boxer's guard a high court wig. First time I saw that I thought I was going to pass out from laughter. One of his finer moments. :)

[@Worgen33]

Maybe they went awhile without much conflict and just started doing coifs since they seemed like they would offer protection but be lighter. Then once real conflict came again, they realized they needed something that worked.

[@zelda12346]

I'mma go with the distinction from Runescape: Helms are melee armor, coifs are ranged armor. They are lighter and provide extra defense vs magic. Obviously the crusades were fought to kill mages, so they needed the extra protection since metal armor conducts magic like electricity.

[@yoyo170rs]

+The Count of Menea Calais God fucking damnit god tier comment

[@zelda12346]

+Furude Rika Let's also not forget that the Crusaders were for the most part low skilled mercenaries. They had low Ranged and therefore resorted to xbows to deal decent dps. Dragonhide armor is also pretty cheap, a lot cheaper than rune armor. Any warrior worth their salt would buy a rune platebody, but since these mercenaries were n00bs, they obviously hadn't killed Elrag yet and hadn't trained Defence, they had to rely on leather coifs to provide the cost effective defensive stats they needed in order to pk effectively in the wilderness that is the Holy Land that also didn't impede their use of xbows.

[@ThisOldHat]

Arming cap, the term you are looking for is "arming cap". Also, maybe instead of layering material, the caps were stitched so that the material bunched up or "bloused". You also seem to not have heard of a "ventaile" which was a roughly triangular flap of mail integral to the coif that would be pulled across the chin and neck and laced at the brow on one side. It could have been let down to facilitate breathing (hence the name which I have probably misspelled), in much the same way later helmets had hinged visors.

[@lindybeige]

+Thisold Hatte I have had long conversations with experts about 'ventails'. They are not pictures in the examples I give here, though. It seems that there is another style of mail coif. 'Padded coif' is not inaccurate, and it fits in with other videos I plan to make about coifs. An arming cap is not necessarily based on a civilian coif.

[@ThisOldHat]

Lindybeige I disagree on the point that ventails are not pictured in the examples you give here. You mention mysterious laces on the sides of the heads of a number of figures, to me this strongly suggests the presence of ventails. This may also partially explain how the coif appears to follow the contours of the neck and chin so closely, i.e. the profile is indicative of a tightly laced ventail. These images are not photographs, they are artistic portrayals. It is probable that functional reproductions of the gear in these works of art will involve departures from what appears to be shown on at least a few points. For instance the apparent bulges on the heads of figures wearing coifs which you point to as evidence of the level of padding could just as easily be a distortion of the actual appearance caused by the artist following a strict formula normally meant to account for the depiction of hairstyles, which leaves the artist unable to accurately portray headgear which fitted tightly to/hugged the skull. I'm also confused as to what you mean by a "civilian" coif. To my understanding the word "coif" refers exclusively to a piece of military headgear made of mail. P.S. Have you thought of using stuffing instead of layering to pad the fabric cap component of the coif? This would allow more "give" in the structure and might enable it [the fabric cap] to be compressed by the weight of the mail and achieve a tighter/closer fit. P.P.S. The lacing could be evidence of a tightening system built int to the "hem" of the garment, and/or around the inside of the crown. Some sort of lacing system could have been used to "open" the coif to allow it to easily slip over the head, and then be tightened similarly to the way modern sneakers are laced. This would have the benefit of enabling the wearer to easily customize the fitting of the coif to their own head.

[@lindybeige]

+Thisold Hatte The laces shown are all around the brow, above the eyes. These would not hold a flap in front of the mouth. Yes, interpreting stylised art is always problematic. The coif was a simple garment worn by all levels of society. It was almost always white, and covered the hair. It was as standard just one thin layer of cloth thick, usually linen or similar. The Mk 1 shown here was stuffed.

[@ThisOldHat]

+Lindybeige I think we are confusing a mail coif with a cloth garment used in conjunction with armor from the period in question known as an "arming cap". I believe there is even a portrayal of such an item worn by a figure in this video that is consistent with an arming cap (The "butch chap" at approx. 3:45). As far as I know the working hypothesis is that arming caps, coifs, and helmets were all used together as far as individual soldiers were able to acquire them. I think you may actually be unwittingly proposing the existence of a heretofore undescribed piece of medieval helmet that consisted of a mail coif with its padded undergarment integrated into the mail rather than worn separately. This actually sounds like a very plausible theory, however I have never seen it advanced before. Carry on.

[@TheSoulOfGenius]

You’ve gained yourself a new subscriber. I stumbled on this channel tonight and you’re SO FUNNY. But also SO INFORMATIVE. Cheers from North Carolina! Great content!

[@dukenukem8381]

you padding looks like a soviet style tank helmet

[@mikeromney4712]

+DUKE NUKEM I was reminded at an good ol victorian jugde...^^

[@Squiffy097]

+DUKE NUKEM I was going to say the same

[@helixplays3273]

What about the femail coif? #lindybeigeissexist #yesallmongols #ottomanprivilege

[@harkbreadbox2706]

lol

[@harkbreadbox2706]

+Zachary Frankman that reply is stupid reported

[@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump]

+Helix Plays This comment is fucking awesome! Too awesome... Reported.

[@WakarimasenKa]

+Helix Plays Its already Femail.. as its made of iron

[@juanpablogonzalez8528]

+Helix Plays dat pun

[@averageintelligence6822]

it'd make more sense if the padding and the mail was sewn together so that the mail does't move around too much so it's probably one piece.

[@c6q3a24]

Do you sew your underpants to your jeans? Or your jacket to your shirt? Or your shoes to your socks?

[@voszvaivaldtkosikovok6369]

Alexander but those are day to day accessories, while a padding and mail are military grade gear, albiet outdated, and if it's true what Lindy sais, those two things are to be always used together

[@Ignonym]

They weren't always used together; mail was always worn with padding, but padding wasn't always worn with mail, so sewing them together would be counterproductive.

[@c6q3a24]

I don't believe that's relevant. If you attach two pieces of layered clothing together you restrict mobility and decrease comfort. Two things you don't really want to do.

[@voszvaivaldtkosikovok6369]

That's why smithing evolved over the time I think, trough finding ways to fit stronger protection in less restricting ways

[@stonemorris5356]

"I will be coming back to this subject when ive got a little bit further." Siri; play "Sounds of Silence."

[@thechancellor3715]

Congratulations, with the big wolly you arrived at a knock off of Soviet tanker cap, more or less.. Look forward viewing your whole catalogue.

[@emirfurkanklc204]

You remind me of Cleopatra with that half finished coif on your head. Eerily.

[@shanejohns7901]

I think the coif is more used to protect the neck. You're assuming that it's there to protect the head, but the head is there simply as a way to hold the coif up along the neck. What other neck protection options would they have other than the extremely expensive plate armor that can sometimes curl up and offer neck protection? And while it does offer some protection from slicing attacks, it is poor as you more than demonstrated. It does also, however, tend to block the larger forms of arrowheads. The small circlets simply won't expand enough to allow the arrowheads in very deep.

[@shanejohns7901]

@ScreechingBlueHairFeminist It's no simple task to spread those links. They are linked double and triple and oftentimes even more. You can tell the better mail by how many other links the links connect to. Plus, there were Theta links (round, but with a bar going through center, like letter theta) as well, but normally outside of Europe. You are generally correct, though -- the narrow bodkin arrows did excel at penetrating chain as well as plate armor. So did other kinds of thin blades, as swords began to be made with a taper at the end. But these medieval mail-equipped armies were just as likely to run into rag-tag enemies dressed in no shoes and falling-apart clothes, as well as with stone arrow-heads if they have archers at all -- as to run into an army full of archers equipped with bodkin arrows.

[@sylvainjacquin2347]

@ScreechingBlueHairFeminist this not quite true. It wasn't just "any decent arrowhead" that could split mail links, there is no reliable evidence that bodking arrows, in fact "long bodkin arrows", would "simply" split/break the links in mail, especially from long range, as it has long been believed in relation to the battle of Agincourt. In that example most likely the English archers shot the French horses at medium range as the French charged. But no arrowhead would penetrate either plate or mail at 200 yards. Mail is pretty good at stopping arrows, even if the best arrow could break links, but there would have to be a very concentrated shooting of arrows in the exact same spot to penetrate any further. Furthermore, the arrowheads of the time would not have been hardened steel and therefore not as strong as people think. And mail in that period was used in conjunction with padded armour, as it would be the combination of the two that would protect the wearer. in any case, in most circumstances, mail will stop arrowheads of any type. Mail is also the longest used piece of armour in the history of armour, 1500 years or so. If it had been so ineffective against arrows, especially in its latest use, it would have been dropped as armour much earlier than it was.

[@ThreezeNiNja]

I agree with this, from the art I think they were wearing the lower portion of coif like a "neck gaiter".

[@ChezzyKnytt]

Ever since Lloyd can remember he's been popping his collar.

[@TheLoreLodge]

Seems the most reasonable explanation is that the combination of the mail coif with 3-4 layers of padding achieved the greatest protective effect.

[@millitron3666]

I suspect a coif is more comfortable, especially in hot weather, than a helmet. Maybe that's why they switched from helmets to coifs to during the crusades, then back to helmets after the crusades?

[@fukyomammason]

+Millitron My thought as well, though I imagine mail isn't something you'd want to be spending long hours under the sun in either.

[@kirbycooper9496]

I believe that it's not that a coif was better than a helmet, it's that it was cheaper while still providing some basic protection

[@colbyboucher6391]

Four years old so IDK why I'm replying to this, but I think there's some nuance here. Mail is expensive as hell. With a typical helmet like you would've seen earlier in history, sure your dome is safe, but if someone nails you in the neck it's all over. A mail coif gives you significant neck protection which soldiers in earlier times wouldn't have had. In fact everything but your face is protected. Sure, if someone whacks you over the head it'll hurt more than it would have with a solid metal helmet, but you'll survive, probably. Of course if you wear a helmet on top of it all, which is what nobles did a little later in the late Crusades, even better. But if you had to choose one, not getting your jugular sliced is pretty convincing.

[@KielEire]

Perhaps they changed to coifs during the Crusades because of the heat? And maybe they became glorified in the Military, kind of like the Bayonet and was used past it's time. IDK, just a thought I had.

[@conn0rized292]

I have a mail coif of my own and every time I look down I have the front part of the mantle dangling in front of my face. I then got the idea of tying a bit of string around my neck to keep it in place. Now along with the mail staying in place where it should be, I can move my head about more easily because I didn't have to deal with the extra weight of mail dangling off my chin like you were describing.

[@TheTrueReiniat]

Well those shitty illustrators in the middle ages clearly needed to step up their game.

[@barryirlandi4217]

lool!!!!

[@RoyalAviator]

+Elias Reiniat It was just the style. Much like modern art it was favourable to not paint accurately.

[@SpitshineSneakers]

+Nathan Evans (RoyalAviator) I think it may have more to do with the fact that these manuscripts were typically made by monks; both the historical inaccuracies and substandard artistic levels could be attributed to the fact that they didn't get out very much.

[@killborg2443]

+Elias Reiniat They were probably 12 yearold monks

[@Reierdacool]

+Killborg that and there was no where to get formal art training. No internet, schools, nothing. No wonder they were so bad.

[@genericfakename8197]

A coif's easy to ball up into a rucksack and haul out to the holy land. A helmet is big and heavy, perfectly fine if you're fighting at home (or thereabouts), but it'd be a pain in the ass to lug around for months on end.

[@falconJB]

+GenericFakeName Knights would be accompanied by several attendees and horses even while fighting in distant lands so thats not really a problem.

[@dominickhowitzer8582]

+Jeremiah B Are you implying that most crusaders were medieval knights?

[@falconJB]

Dominick Howitzer The church sanctioned ones, yes, Knights and their attending footman who frequently are not depicted and typically didn't have expensive chain armor.

[@dominickhowitzer8582]

Jeremiah B Yes, of course there were knights around. Point being guy number 1's issue of helmets being a bother, and your assertion being that they had "several attendees and horses" to justify them. My part being in pointing out that a significant portion of the people going on crusades were peasants and criminals most of which were not knights with accompanying servants. However, one thing is clear, people either didn't have helmets (or head protection at all) or did. Few if any had a mail coif unless they had the money to purchase it.

[@leomoran142]

The padding that was used with coifs was much more closely stitched, and far tighter. It was gambeson, and also served as armour over the body. Gambeson for the body was 10-15 layers of wool, and gambeson for the head was usually 3-5 layers of wool, which were stitched close and tight, to be about 12-15 mm for the body and about 5 mm for the head. It starts as being quite rigid, but softens over time to become quite pliable.

[@DZSabre]

from the research I did when I made mine, and I found illustrations that showed that the part that covers the chin is actually constructed as a flap that is contiguous with the right side of the cheek mail and is pulled up and laced to the leather band that sits alongside the left temple. This allows the lower half of the coif to fit closer to the neck and provides the larger area through which to fit the head as you put it on.

[@fatcoyote2]

You recreated the tanker's helmet.

[@caseyb1346]

maybe they used thick rawhide caps under the mail? Would be pretty effective if you've seen Skall's video on thick rawhide armor.

[@arealassassin]

I agree- leather makes perfect sense. Maybe with a bit of thin blanket under that. A sort of progressive hardness from inside to outer shell.

[@pzokz]

It's been a few years since this was posted - did the coif chin cover ever get made and is there a link to what it looks like?

[@midshipman8654]

i think the mystery of the coif isnt about it being better than a helmet, but what can be worn UNDER a helmet. the 12th-14th centuries were the absolute zenith of heavy cavalry knights, and it also seems like helmets like the great helm where specialized to be worn on the charge, but where maybe not the best once you got into melee due to reduced awareness. so having something thats still pretty protective under the helmet so you can rip off the helmet when you are in melee and still be pretty protected might have been the purpose.

[@BananaMana69]

It can also be worn over a skull cap

[@pkingpumpkin]

Slick Montey Python reference @3:35

[@Jokumlokum]

YES, that one was great!

[@InternetStudiesGuy]

What would be wrong with mail tacked to (minimally padded) hard leather? It might be easier to attach to an aventail that protects the neck & mouth than a plain helmet, while being lighter and basically as protective as a solid iron helmet. You won't solve the mystery of the coif without taking into account the aventail.

[@steirqwe7956]

Coifs are certainly easier to repair and maintain in the field. If you have fancy helmet and it was damaged in the battle you need a full size smithery to fix it, unless its a tiny dent. In other hand you can change few damaged rings on the coif and it will be fine again. I guess it is choice between best avaible protection and QoL features. EDIT: or perhaps coifs were pretty much equivalent of eupalets or dress swords. Being man at arms knights and soldiers had to wear some designated armored headgear on everyday basis espcially crusaders, and relatively light coif that isn't obscuring view seems to be a good choice. Heavier helmets like tophelms more suitable for full size battle only use.

[@RichardPhillips1066]

Cheers ...first laugh I had today was you putting that on

[@Shane_The_Confessor]

Random photo of Jeor Mormont behind you.

[@popalupa4844]

All this nature stuff, and then... BAM!! Some dude from Game of Thrones.

[@pedrorevolledo8185]

how do u know that?¡

[@ggh799]

He made a video about it.

[@SarmonOflynn]

Yeh, he made a video about working on set with the actor in some medieval movies ages ago, and he accidentally insulted him by saying his armour was ridiculous.

[@TheAnonymmynona]

could it be that the main porpuse of the coif was protecting the neck and throat against cuts

[@sebastianreuther7355]

In contrast to the mentioned movies, weren´t there some good, padded coifs with chin/mouth protection in Kingdom of Heaven?

[@3Rton]

Looking forward to actually seeing the finished stuff.