Challenger's Peril Nerfed and Ele Reverts - More Tuning Inc!

[@coolirlgamer3462]

Ele discord looks like the streets of Berlin after the wall fell

[@wgcdrelliot8989]

nahhhhh😂😂😂😂

[@tonyr6180]

It should, what they did was in the same ballpark as my favorite austrian painter

[@triptriad1101]

Shamans always crying, nothing new

[@Blaylock2]

🤣🤣🤣

[@erdal2302]

As an ele i can only say "ROFL" to this post

[@FonoKun]

Elemental going through everything we Fury Warrior have but in 2 weeks instead of 2 months

[@Raynhardx]

Probably class tuning and bug fixing is done by different teams. And those neither talk to each other nor do they read their own patch notes. And whatever "testing" method the class teams use, they don't account for bugs at all. The ele rework seems to have been very nicely tuned, if it wasn't for like 5 bugs that yieled 40% extra damage. This is a classical failure of "company got too big and management failed to arrange that the right people talk with each other".

[@JohnDoe-od1pu]

Everyday they do a 180 on Ele. I feel like Blizzard have absolutely no idea what they’re doing. Just winging it

[@chessiecat7860]

Oh how do you propose they balance things? Throw me your spreadsheet of theory crafted balance changes I’m sure they’re great.

[@Justintricate]

@@chessiecat7860 I mean you can feel like they're not doing a great job, without having a solution. That's not our job, it's theirs. I don't have to be a pilot to know a crashed plane isn't a good sign.

[@driskull4249]

I mean in a way yes, at least in regards to this patch. The patch was CLEARLY not ready for live servers but because of the whole 20th anniversary thing it had to be pushed out the door with all the bugs. And the Eley tuning prob got caught in the crossfire of that, being severely untested with the mastery change along with shamans other talent reworks.

[@EyeInTea]

@@chessiecat7860 Maybe actually gather the data that people threw at them for 5+ weeks while this was live on the PTR instead of ignoring it and just making such extreme changes in either direction.

[@adityasihag4]

It's a video game, that's how human beings tuning how the code plays out , works

[@brunolott7278]

devs should be granted a non meta spec and be sitted with no foods until they time an 12+ pugging.

[@Dremecuz]

There are devs who were timing pretty high keys in greens before any dungeon nerfs went out. I think most of us are just bad and we don't want to admit it.

[@avinion]

​@@Dremecuzoh yeah those devs who cant even beat rashanan on testing and letting RWF to be alpha testers.

[@Rhyhmx]

​@@DremecuzI dont disagree but they are total clowns regardless and there are better ways to deal with this. Just look at the rework/tuning changes, im getting second hand embarrasment from the amount of incompetence their balance and QA teams have.

[@Time4N3R0]

agree, pugging 12s atm just Suck especialy if ur not a meta class

[@cyborgtemplar1989]

Pugging is a different story. Timing with people you know on comms is a different story entirely

[@MiiMiiOwO]

i love me some ele reerts

[@thelastspectre8141]

What's funny is blizzards post said "after play testing and reading feedbacks," feedbacks I can see but play testing is funny since we all know they don't play test anything or they would have play tested the nerf before even putting it in a blue post in the first place. Makes you wander how they got the number in the first place?

[@runiih]

I'm pretty sure devs don't have live wow installed on their machines at this point

[@thelastspectre8141]

@runiih I still think there is a dart board at blizzard for each class and spec with random buffs and nerfs on them and they just blindly throw darts at them and what ever sticks that's what they go with. Then listen to the community on if it was bad or good then either revert or stick with it....for shadow priest there is a legit psychic link dart board separate for that thing lol

[@cyborgtemplar1989]

@@thelastspectre8141 if theirs a dartboard, some classes have much wider boards than others. a few probably expand most of the wall.

[@DDalueg]

It’s always a good Monday when I get to see you Dratnos

[@sunderwire]

They should just go back to how m+ was in season 3/4 of DF but with the new xalatah affixes instead of the old ones. Why did they change what wasn’t fixed?

[@SkagulTV]

Because the affixes were annoying and old. Also some of them were straight up key depleting if done wrong once, sanguine and bolstering comes to mind

[@sunderwire]

@@SkagulTV that’s why I was saying with xalatath affixes. Sorry I wasn’t clear

[@Navi_xoo]

​@@sunderwire You were clear they just don't read. Anyway you are right. It was mostly fine. The +1-10 squish is fine too. Adding tyrannical ontop of Fortified was just a stupid idea, only Blizzard could do something so lazy and short sighted.

[@99Pierogies]

​@@Navi_xoothat, plus the death timer, plus the extra 10% scaling in 11+, plus the crests/vault being higher. It was just too many changes all at once, and all because Ion got butthurt people were able to pug mythic gear from vault throughout an entire season

[@Navi_xoo]

@@99Pierogies It's insane. They make crafting BIS items for gold okay ( wow tokens yay ) nobody complains. They make 10's harder for what is likely a trash vault and takes FOREVER to do on alts, and the blizzard dongriders defend it.

[@ticien1]

Ele is getting the fury war treatment

[@YoureWierdImN0t]

deserved

[@kw951]

Except this has happened to ele since DF season 2.

[@jaredvail5295]

Except not really? Where’s your target cap and 1 defensive.

[@Schon1Kevin]

im glad they cut those elemental nerfs short. i was so freaking mad when ive read them the first time. mastery used to be our worst stat by far. even so bad that u were sacrificing ilvl to not have mastery on your gear in specific situations. then mastery suddenly became our best stat, meaning we had to switch out our entire gear. from testing and from sims this nerfs would probably have lead to a state where mastery again was +3 on our stat priority list which would have forced us to switch our our entire gear once more. yet those additional nerfs suck ass since we might even end up in a weaker spot than pre 11.0.5. right now, after the 2 hotfix nerfs we already got this week, ele looks pretty good in line with the other classes. single target wasnt over the top at all and the overall aoe is on par with other top performing specs. yes, we do have an incredible high aoe burst window, but to be fair we are one of the very few (if there is any other) classes with a 3 min damage cooldown. a class with a 3 min damage cooldown is supposed to have a higher aoe peak compared to classes with shorter cds since those can use their cds much more often during a m+ run. on a 30 min dungeon timer a 2 min cd can be used 3 additonal times. the first lightning rod dmg already hit hard and the second really killed the overperformance and the ascendance bug isnt even fixed yet. if thats fixed we are mid of the pack anyways.

[@ic3t3ap3ach]

imo peril has nothing to do in sub 10/11 keys after the key squish. its annoying and still most players dont know all mechanic or want to pull too much and not understand the affix

[@stuff4812]

its a bad affix at any level. there was no need or desire from players. a small amount of stupid people may like it but you dont listen to people that are very dumb

[@doubleshine]

This is hardly a change to Challenger's Peril, it's just a change to all dungeons 7+ and people are only happy because keys are easier now. I'm confident if TWW dungeons had shipped with +2minutes on the timer, every one would be complaining about Challenger's Peril just as much. Giving some Free Deaths was by far the better solution to give you some margin of error whereas now a group with 0 deaths is still gonna be 90 seconds ahead of a group with 6 deaths just on timer alone.

[@countryc0unt]

I (personally) like the more methodical style of pulling instead of "pull everything and hope we don't die" but i get that is subjective and adding a grace period was probably the easiest way for them to adjust the harshness of Challengers Peril (besides making it less seconds). Also, yay Ele Shaman not trash bin, but actually getting tuned. And yes the ascendance bugfix will probably result in a 9%ish ST nerf that is yet to come.

[@nmc400]

The challengers peril change hardly changes anything , all it did was bump how annoying it is a key level....

[@Xenamos]

Honestly i dont understand why they wont just nerf Challengers peril at the least. No one likes it, why are you so adamant on having an affix the players collectively HATE? The game is meant to be fun, and it is not fun right now doing m+. The fact they wont just give in and nerf it is just baffling to me, many people are quitting over it

[@99Pierogies]

Ion is stubborn, he's done this multiple times with many different features throughout his time as lead dev. He basically only wants to design the game for the top 0.1%, and then grudgingly makes changes once the inevitable population dip happens. Honestly I thought he might have finally learned his lesson after DF s2, but the dude does this every expansion like clockwork now

[@slandry4664]

Because players hate everything. Y'all are like toddlers throwing tantrums every single patch

[@Freestyle80]

who is we last year's heroic raiders who think they are good players because they cleared 16s and got easy myth track loot? lmao

[@VkaraujoHusk]

Peril's change makes sense, but doesn't have a "feels good" aspect to it. We can logicaly understand what is being done here, but its just not fun.

[@kieronwebster887]

yes but in pugs people die all time, tends to be the same players so if you miss time a key because 1 person is dying due the not using their defensives it feels bad

[@kennethho8259]

The problem I saw in pre-TWW lower pug keys were tanks just go all crazy on first pulls without taking into account the group comps - they like to think that as long as they themselves can survive the pull, it’s not their fault that the dpsers and the healer die repeatedly from aoes/unkicked abilities, which seldom ended well when the average pug comps lack the group CCs and the burst AoE, and the pull would eventually wipe. I’m glad that they added challenger’s peril and now pug tanks are a lot more conservative on pulls. 15 seconds might have been too harsh and I’ve totally expected a nerf (which they just did) but I’m just glad that they managed to get the message across. Pulling big and taking risk may appeal to some - but definitely not all. This will be a different story in higher organized keys but I don’t do those so it’ll not be my place to comment, but shouldn’t knowing your limit on what your group could handle also be an important skill to master?

[@hexters9938]

What if since you said you want keys to be timed by a group pulling big and doing big damage and groups to pull slower what if you had an option on your keystone kinda like a Talent node make the death penalty go to back to 5 seconds but you had to give up like 2 minutes on the overall key or some number like that (hopefully this makes sense it does to me in my head)

[@jacobmitchell9227]

Keystone talents would go HARD tbh. Would be a really cool expansion feature.

[@jacobmitchell9227]

Just too hard to balance probobaly

[@Jimbobbinson]

I don't see the extra 90 seconds changing anything since it just adds 90 seconds to the key flat. You just get 1½ minute more to play slow and precise, and the moment you wipe the key “feels" over and often times will be because people leave. Maybe the average player can get ½ a key level higher on average, but gameplay remains the same.

[@LuckyPed10]

I had like 3 dungeon where we didn't time it coz of less than 1 minute overtime in the last 3 week. including a Grim Batol 10 from 3 week ago which not timed coz of literally 7 second mainly coz a Priest keep dying (80% of all death was priest) so this 90 seconds does matter but not that much.

[@brendanmoreau6763]

I think things are really close to being very good, but my take is to remove the downgrade of a key when untimed(Crest loss can stay). Helps the public get into keys because people are less worried they wont be timed and lose the progress they have made on their own key. As a player that plays in a group it allows for us to experiment pulls/routes (And with limited time to play as a group this would greatly help). I would always hold my key for my group but if I was not worried to lose that good 12 key i would run it as a pug giving myself and other players more practice which is what make perils affix easier. This applys to any skill level and key level group.

[@Youtubestolemyname99999]

Wow impressive change

[@randommcrandomface7145]

I agree, completely wrong direction, doesn't add anything to the dungeon except more need for higher dps. It doesn't even emphasize precise play, it just penalizes risk taking. There is already a death penalty... increasing the death penalty is stupid while also increasing the risk overall, it's just lazy. I like increasing difficulty, but this doesn't do that... it is an increased penalty, not an increased difficulty. Penalty bad, difficulty good... I'm not sure how they're not getting that after all of the past affixes we've already hated. Stop penalizing us for playing the game.

[@12fulworld69]

Whenever my friend group wipes in M+ everyone's mood just get a bit worse, not just people being irritated but also perfusely apologising, saying sorry mb again and again. People go quiet a lot as well. We don't blame eachother or get mad, but seems a lot harder this season to brush it off quickly, go at it again, and keep having fun.

[@Bwern]

"we wish for challenger's peril to promote precise play" okay now who the f is "we" because it sure as shit ain't the players running the keys

[@tibor3106]

Speak for yourself. I think its a good affix

[@Bwern]

@@tibor3106 L

[@DEADLY12GUN]

Yeah this hit's M+ hard like the timers being as punishing as they currently are it's just gonna make those keys much more tedious. For example in necrotic wake if you have one wipe your key is maybe bricked depending where your are but now with the update your necrotic wake is for sure gonna be bricked after a wipe.

[@MrDifmaster]

what? the change makes it easier to handle a wipe and time, not harder

[@driskull4249]

I think the best middle ground for challenger's peril is to just have each death in quick succession to each other be multiplicative. Example: if one person dies its 5 seconds off timer but if another death is had within idk, 10 seconds of the previous death? That 2nd death is now 10 seconds off timer, to the point in which a wipe equals the current 1 minute 30 seconds off the dungeon timer. I think that way it punishes the group for misplay as a whole, instead of the group being punished for misplay from one dude who just isn't getting his shit together. This way, death is still more meaningful in blizzards eyes, but its not AS brutal on pugs.

[@shmooperdoodle]

The Challenger’s Peril change feels like they are saying “So, we don’t want this change we made to punish you to punish you, but we don’t want you to just undo it, so we will undo it in a creative, yet stupid, way.”

[@Spiritt_Daphiti]

Class Tuning/Elemental Shaman ; - X2 Turbos bigger and better cooling ( was carburettor with drilled fuel injectors) -carbon-epoxy-renium chassis whit 4x4 drive ( was front wheel drive) - SpaceX raptor engine ( was solid rocket motor ) Lava burst spell doesn't go bigger on Horde Tauren Shaman/ the real Shaman , sorry I forget there is no Horde anymore.

[@talisredstar1543]

This is basically what Tettles called for. give us a buffer for a few deaths to not be a punishing, and then after that. THEN you start getting hammered for deaths. Its sad it took them this long to do this. Honestly I want to see a vid of multiple devs, not the testers who you know should be skilled, but the devs themselves. Play these keys, especially 9s and 10s, and then look straight at the camera say yeah thats all fine and fun. I get the point of precise play, but that was the point of higher keys to begin with. As you get higher and higher you have to be more precise, or you don't time the key. Challenger's Peril is nothing but, and has been nothing but "rubbing salt in the wound" that is Mplus this season.

[@gruncleiroh5525]

Does anyone know if I've got a siege +10 that was over time by 6 seconds because I died running to the last boss, will it be changed to a timed 10 with the associated portal, or do I have to walk into that hellscape dungeon again?

[@CoversIncorporated]

I think they should just remove the death penalty altogether, wiping already clears enough time and I am so sick of stupid pug tanks leaving after the first wipe because they pulled too much when the healer had no cd’s

[@Nr4747]

While I very much appreciate the Challenger's Peril nerf, the form it took and the explaination are both baffling, to say the least (as are the majority of the balance and tuning changes since the release of TWW). Challenger's Peril now becomes a strange kiss/curse-affix that makes your first 6 deaths in any +7 or higher key completely free. This means that many runs will now essentially only have an upside from this additional affix. In addition, your first 9 deaths in a +7 or higher are now unchanged from any run of +6 or lower, meaning that Challenger's Peril is quite declawed, even for groups with a decent amount of deaths in their runs. In addition, what "decisions" do the devs mean with their weirdly worded explaination ? The decision to have deaths in your M+ runs ? Those are usually not conscious decisions but rather mistakes. The decision to progress further once all +6 keys have been timed ? With how any relevant rewards are currently gated, that's not a decision but pretty much a no-brainer if you want to get past the weekly hero gear that you could much easier get in delves. tl;dr: Change welcomed, execution and explaination odd.

[@G82Jesse]

WHAT TYPE OF KANGAROO COURT IS THIS!?

[@kylechermak7092]

Ele main here (again xdd) I’m glad we got the Hpal treatment. It shows blizzard is actually listening to their community. I’m not entirely sure if the precedent being set is good or not. On one hand, blizzard is listening. On the other hand, does this mean that no matter what changes go through, if a community cries enough, it will get reverted?

[@Ergdoelloos]

Ele's playstyle is a bit of a wildcard. Sometimes you get a bunch of dre procs and it feels great. Other times you're just waiting for your 3m cd to be back up until you feel relevant

[@amethonys2798]

The only change I really want for Ele with the current set up is the elementals moving to 90 second CDs. It's 2024 and we unironically have desynced cooldowns despite them "learning" their lesson like 8 years ago moving Infernal to 2 minutes to line up with Dark Soul at the time.

[@viktormathe8335]

Ever since TWW came out I was hoping for brewmaster buffs. Now Im just happy they didnt touch it.

[@Ghust19]

Good for Ele. Classic blizzard stubbornness with this ass affix, they will work around it and fix it instead of deleting immediately, and will just delete it in one of the next patches anyway

[@lovelywaz]

They gave poor BM Hunters midfinger right on the face yet again. 😶😶 Not only their minor AOE buff was pretty much reverted back but now they ALSO got nerfed to their ST and priority damage. 😬😬 They don't have to say they hate Hunters because actions speak louder than words... 😑😑

[@serge2cool]

I agree the nerfs are a bit wack right now but I still gotta call ya a BM crybaby xD

[@KillchainGames]

RE-ERTS POGGERS!

[@12fulworld69]

I mean, at this point they just want us to pull one by one, crest farming +8s, cus doing anything else isn't efficient.

[@ilevitatecs2]

m+ is dead already. season was a bust

[@BIGDIZZBBY]

Skill issue

[@Reeezeful]

Anyone else hearing a high pitched noise in the background of his video? it is not very loud but clearly there

[@DoctorTako]

And yet there’s still invisible pools on Tredova that won’t be fixed.

[@FelixWoebkenberg]

Cool change! If you play clean, you have more time, after 9 deaths you are equal to not having the affix at all. Actually correct kiss curse implementation :)

[@golvmoppski]

just band'aid time, they know it sucks, but hard to remove such a big affix mid season. I think its gonna be slowly nerfed with time to a redundant place, and then come 2 they just remove it

[@amethonys2798]

The issue with Challenger's Peril is it is ON TOP of horrendous walk backs. I don't get how Blizzard EVERY SINGLE EXPANSION goes "we've learned from our mistakes regarding checkpoints" yet we have garbage like CoT where if you wipe to Izo you lose 90+ seconds baseline no matter what anyway since it spawns you at the start where you have to take a stupid bug to the building and STILL walk back to the boss.

[@CeilingPanda]

Now MW can enjoy it's 6% aura buff to be second worst healer (above Shaman who is dominating M+) but was nerfed by 300k HPS ish on our only great fight. (rip)

[@Schnaqer]

Care to elaborate?

[@GoPlayMLP]

Now clue what you’re on about. Needs some explaining what that gibberish means

[@CeilingPanda]

Mw is really bad overall and it's carried by HPS from Brood, if you remove Brood from the data and queen as no mw has done queen publicly inthis patch, they are the worst HPS healer by HPS. They are nerfing Brood from 60% bonus healing to 20% which is sensible as they has way too much healing on that fight. But the 6% aura healing only moves then from worst to second worst.

[@Schnaqer]

@@CeilingPanda Gotcha, i've been viewing all changes through M+ goggles and know nothing about raid balance so the buffs to fistweaving sound good to me.

[@PibsterPewPew]

Can they please revert the poison cleansing totem nurf, was waaaay too aggressive just because it countered 1/4 affixes now we just cant handle the trillion poisons in tgis season smh

[@jzmmm]

IMO - remove this fort tyr and guile affixes and just move rewards up key levels. Eg portals at 15. I don’t see the need for these affixes on “infinite”scaling game mode

[@sinnis4993]

Portals for current world first keys. My guy is cooked, lol.

[@Rob-147]

It's insane how many tuning changes there are. Its like they are just making it up as they go

[@avshipman]

people complain when no tuning, people complain when many tuning. devs can't win

[@leothar]

Where's the tuning for the anniversary chores

[@Rob-147]

@@avshipman constant tinkering is exhausting.

[@praill]

​@@avshipmanpingpong bouncing back and forth like this isn't what people want.. it just looks sloppy

[@NTTTTTT52]

@@avshipman what an absolutely dogshit take

[@RidgeMiller]

Thumbnail is messed up. thats my only take from this video

[@Spanakopitaa]

What exactly are you suggesting, not remove any time in case someone dies? cause that's lame

[@Navi_xoo]

It is mostly fine. The death affix should be removed but you know sure whatever. The +1-10 squish is fine too. Adding tyrannical on top of Fortified was just a miserable idea, only Blizzard could do something so lazy and short sighted.

[@syphlexsyphlex762]

Challengers peril is extremely stupid, especially since some DPS classes get 1 hit by higher key aoes if they don't use defensive in time. Some classes with long CDs on their defensives tend to not even get invited in higher keys because they cannot survive

[@rosco3]

Challenger's peril change is atrocious. Why are keys +7 and up (to 12) 1:30 longer? We have now 2~7 with one timer, then 7+ with another

[@countryc0unt]

that is not true, challengers peril is also active in +12 and above, the only affixes removed are the xalatath ones

[@rosco3]

@@countryc0unt Yeah my bad, don't know why I though the 1m30s extra would be removed from 12s and up. Still the point is the same

[@danielnguyen1811]

lol this is good news for ELE.

[@wvjeepguy8178]

What an absolute mess this expansion is. Guess none of it matters if people are going to keep shoveling over money for $90 mounts.

[@laughingman212]

If you don't buy that mount with gold or real money and play this game everyday you are stupid the convenience this mount brings is amazing

[@zeil2ify]

the math with the 9 deaths in the beginning is so omega wrong and reminds me of some nice jokes :D

[@themInterwebs]

My issue with affixes like challengers peril is it makes it difficult to outgear keys. Used to be fun to gear through the season and crush keys for the vault, now the damage doesn’t quite out scale deaths so there isn’t a time you can play more liberally, which is just not fun. Wild m+ is fun

[@bjornneuhauser6636]

I really don't like the direction they're going with challengers peril. I miss being able to have fun in keys and doing big pulls instead of just pressing W and locking in fdk, rsham, aug every time edit: i swear i didnt just copy drattys take

[@rickybigdam8127]

I knew ele was OP when the one ele on my friends list wasn’t bitching about how bad ele was for a week

[@AudiuX]

Maybe someone smarter than me can help me understand but why does blizzard launch patches and xpansions then need to tune CONSTANTLY through it like they dont have millions of datasets that can tell them exactly how classes and specs are going to perform in every dungeon and type of content? Like, run a million sims for every spec through every type of content in the game before launching a patch???? i dont get it, its so out of control all the changes every week and makes the game not fun.

[@Seanaaayy]

blasted ele reerts

[@dotftw1]

They should balance the dungeon timers instead of making up cheap solutions like this.

[@tkaz123]

REERTS

[@Legionthecomrade]

99 LUFTBALLONS

[@dylanfitzpatrick9423]

Waiting until tomorrow for them to surprise aura nerf shaman by 99% .

[@MUTV2]

If you think about it, this change to challengers peril does nothing but maybe let you push one key level higher than you did before. At first, you think, oh wow 90 more seconds, but what will happen is it allows you to push one key level higher where the key takes a certain amount of time longer due to the health scaling, effectively nullifying the challengers peril nerf (90s bonus). Once the health scaling of the next key level absorbs the 90s bonus, challenger peril will essentially be the same.

[@wgcdrelliot8989]

mmmm that’s what a nerf is???

[@MUTV2]

@@wgcdrelliot8989 Right, its a nerf, thanks @wgcdrelliot8989 for enlightening me on that. But it effectively does nothing in the terms for players reason for not liking challengers peril. Is everyone's argument that they just want to do one key level higher? I dont think I've seen that a single time. As soon as you do that one key level higher, you're back to the same problem as before.

[@wgcdrelliot8989]

@@MUTV2 I agree that the affix is trash, but any nerf to it is step in the right direction, so it’s a w in my book

[@hugofreitas6799]

Pushing a key higher is a hell of a nerf my guy.

[@bigloquat]

Ele Reerts

[@andersw5265]

I feel the affix is way worse in the pug scenario vs organized groups.. really shitty affix

[@KiLLERJA0]

Can we just revert ele back to they were before the patch? personally I hate this new build and enjoyed the farseer build and playstyle.

[@hugofreitas6799]

Nah, pressing lb all the tiem and having no Offensive cds is turbo ass.

[@xlightninghawk6360]

no, dafuq? spamming chain lightning only? if you want 1 button spam, go play frost mage. the changes now feels much more like ele did in legion, which was its peak imo in terms of fun. now it gives a bit more complexity like it used to have. still some changes i want back. like they made it so you never really cast lava burst anymore, which feels weird, the lava surge procs feels like it takes forever to proc. so i want them to buff the fire build a bit to make it more viable

[@FellowChad]

No fucking way. Please don’t revert. This playstyle of AFK lightning bolt or chain is so boring.

[@ElementAlecx]

The new build feels much more interactive and fun imo. LB spam gets so boring after a bit

[@KiLLERJA0]

@@ElementAlecx I enjoyed it, dont really enjoy the new build

[@jonkalv7808]

Bring back fort/tyr full time, 7s you get the buff affix, 10s you get the death penalty, 12s you lose the buff affix. Keep it simple this shit is stupid

[@RalphSchurade]

Remember when running dungeons was fun and enjoyable and not a toxic rush fest? What did we not have? Oh yea, timers and death penalties.

[@jore5725]

Dratnos? More like Chadnos!

[@AustinTheNarwhal]

Challengers peril was fine for full groups but is extremely bad for pugs. Random people without comms make mistakes, keys would get bricked without having wipes because you cant always vet people and vetting is somewhat unhealthy for the community anyways.

[@Wolfiztv]

Ele is broken for a week the wow community goes mad. I appreciate a tune needed to be had but im confident its mage mains crying because they arent #1 for the first time in forever.

[@uther69lol]

thumbnail spell checker when?

[@kryptisgg]

Reerts

[@whereisthesurvivalhunter9525]

It's hilarious how they keep making the game more time consuming I had time to finish Black Myth Wukong 2 times in 2 days while having fun, and whenever i enter WoW and see the returns compared to the time investment... abysmal. I saw an add in the LFG looking for players that didn't have a job to play WoW seriously... i laughed this is nuts.

[@iCondemnPS3]

Blizz is catering way too much to the people who are bad at playing wow. Adding time to the timers when people are timing 15s and 16s is crazy. How about everyone do research on their class, actually use your interrupt dispel and other class utilities.

[@zackvenox]

Might as well just delete challenger's peril as a whole

[@xMissMaveNx]

Surely I'll get flamed by gen zoomers but...Maybe ppl should start using CC on certain mobs again? 😅

[@bmarcy86]

9 freebies is correct

[@Supamikey1337]

I think Blizz should get the rid of the death timer completely, its bad enough when you die lose time, + walking back

[@sandcat731]

I hate this change, just fix the actual issue

[@Isthismylifenow]

Challengers peril vs me - the 200ping king. Ez

[@dflowers6771]

slow steady and boring is the kind of gameplay my now 5 capped warrior is pidgeonholed into... koodos to this affix change

[@jacobmitchell9227]

Nerf the scaling of 12s and higher 95% of key players are stuck at 11s what kind of gameplay is that? I used to get to around the 27_28 key lvl before the system rework. This new system feels so bad for a pugger. It’s not fun at all. And reduce the amount of kicks and cc needed it’s fucking ridiculous.

[@gilesgardner3456]

I got KSM for the first time ever in 10.3. I remember timing keys with 20-30 deaths and thinking “this is dumb, how are people learning anything when failing at mechanics still ends in overall success.” I want folks to do Keys correctly & learn from mistakes. But I also only have limited game time and it hurts to be stuck in LFG hell. I don’t know how we make people better players, but I’m not convinced this is the way. When I run with my guild in discord these problems all vanish. The idea that risk taking play should be rewarded really only applies to guild/set groups with coms. I think this change helps coordinated groups that are already experiencing success and keeps it tough for those who are having trouble. Imagine that one DH finding out there are 6 “free” deaths…

[@QPoily]

I personally think that at some point you reach a wall that is player attitude and the refusal to fix their own mistakes and I don't think any amount of changes (that don't feel punishing for the players who do care) is going to fix that kind of player attitude. When I die the first thing I do is look at what I could've done differently. Doesn't matter if it's a low key level or a high one. If anything I actually quite enjoy doing lower key levels at times because it gives me more breathing room to really look at what's going on and what could be really dangerous at higher key levels. If players refuse to do these kind of things even after cumulatively dying 30 times then that's indicative of them simply not caring enough and you simply can't force players to truly care. And to be really honest, KSM in general hasn't really been a true indicator of a player's skill for awhile now. KSH is arguably the point when you can really tell if a player knows what's up or not. But even KSH gets slowly powercrept as the season goes on.

[@d4mephisto]

who cares if bad players succeed? make the game less difficult, more people will play, more people will get rewards, everyone wins. the problem isn't "we need players to get better" but instead "we need to stop gatekeeping behavior" you have it backwards my man. classic Elitist L take this is a video game, you shouldn't be attaching your ego to it.

[@JimSmith-g2d]

They don't need to be better. It's a game and it's scaling content

[@Navi_xoo]

You are still bad at the game. You aren't good for having timed 10s or 20s lmao holy shit. Your logic is so awful. It's just a pointless bad worthless affix. Anyone with a brain can see it.

[@Vastatio]

@@d4mephistoNo. If that’s your opinion then there’s plenty of casual content for you to enjoy. Go back to lfr.

[@enigmabis.]

Still no mage changes rofl nerfed fire when it was already behind forced arcanes to reroll spellslinger for rng aoe frost best spec just cus the other 2 got gutted

[@davidw.5984]

😂 get fkd

[@KillerIceStorm]

Bad affix idea plain and simple, they tried it this tier and it failed, the constant changes to it speaks for itself. But Blizz doesnt learn from mistakes, so endure S2 with this garbage again :)

[@godsfaithinhumanity]

let this be a lesson: complaining works! remember to complain as much as possible when your spec get unwanted changes

[@Gaffy05]

Blizzard has done nothing positive for mythic plus this expansion. Every decision has been in the direction of fuck the player base youre not going to have fun here. Worst part is the classes are in a dog shit state as well 20+% swings week to week in just unacceptable.

[@adityasihag4]

Those fun pulls are just a consequence of outlaw rogue bfa, n fire mage shadow priest dragonflight. There's a group of people who don't like that mindless aoe nonsense

[@ollivainionpaa684]

This just explains they are truly dumb in Blizzard.

[@birdog23]

my 600ilvl ele shaman does more damage in keys than my 628 shadow, and has 10x the mob control. yeaaaa ele really needs rebuffed.. lol

[@PwnageFreak]

They need AoE nerf. Not execution.

[@xlightninghawk6360]

mob control means shit if you do no dmg. these nerfs were beyond fucked. 20% nerf in single target is way too damn big and worse for aoe. no one would pick ele, so all the mob control wouldnt matter my guy

[@milleniar]

Upload a video and show us. Otherwise, cut the bullshit. Always monkeys like you who make shit up to prove a point. Eles were overtunned, but you're delusional if you think a nuke nerf was needed.

[@Navi_xoo]

@@xlightninghawk6360 It is deserved. It is not more than 20 percent. It is 10 percent ST and less for AoE lol. There was just a bug so theory crafters weren't sure. But even before that it was not 20 percent ST nerf.

[@xlightninghawk6360]

@@Navi_xoo then explain why ele is 3rd worst dmg dealer for raid, you really think thats justifyable?

[@Eric-ge5vp]

Lol only terrible players believe going slower and playing safer is a bad thing. Thats solely how dungeons were intended originally. Faster and bigger while taking risks and wiping definitely doesn’t equal better it only takes 1 good wipe to bake a key. It equals sub par play and mediocre players if they wipe. Just the facts man. But to each their own lol

[@enigmabis.]

Now revert the mage nerfs

[@ezeess7239]

Just get rid of the challengers peril...