Changing Motorcycle Fork Position/Geometry Using Your Kickstand

www.DaveMossTuning.com
You can still change fork position to improve the handling of your motorcycle even without those fancy motorcycle stands, because the manufacturer was kind enough to provide a kick stand as standard equipment.
www.DaveMossTuning.com

[@daveross7]

Getting back into biking after 20 years off. Bought a 2001 zx6r the forks had been dropped 16mm as I'm 17 stone thought I'd put them back to standard (flush) it's like riding a different bike stable and I'm using all the tyre now. Great videos and I'm learning all the time, a very happy 58 year old.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Brilliant - thanks for making the effort to make your bike truly yours!

[@doinok1149]

Thankyou for replying Dave I really love your channel mate it’s awesome I just had a Cbr 07 fireblade stolen last December 28 it broke my heart I’ve just saved like mad and got a 16 r1 and even the smallest rock feels like a speed hump Cheers mate good health 🏍👍🤝

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you - glad you enjoy watching. Have you put a cable tie on the forks and measured travel used? Have you looked at the shock and visually checked travel used?

[@Grubbypaws79]

Thank you Dave for all of your awesome videos! It seems there’s a tutorial for every job needed for my track bike! Bloody legend!!!❤

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you - really appreciate you using my videos to help you!

[@layingblacklines]

I guess this technique would also help if you want to syringe in or out a little fork oil to adjust the air gap. Or for getting the fork caps back on again anyway. I've only ever adjusted the air gap with the forks off the bike. Getting the headstock paddock stand requires removing a bunch of bodywork on my bike. Might give this a go as it should allow me to do it quickly with minimal fuss. Funny how the obvious things like using the side stand to take the weight aren't always so obvious until they've been pointed out. Thanks 👍

[@rtroiani]

Damn you and thank you! Lol. I spent an hour with my Triumph Bonneville trying to slide the forks up including a long pipe clamp and a ratchet strap, no luck. Watched the first few minutes seeing you explain the friction and wiggle the shock, went to the garage and was finished in five minutes, thank you!!!

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Well played sir! Now you can pay it forward :)

[@ballinb8044]

Simple and straight to the point. No jack needed 🎉

[@dustynbustos5983]

I've had times were I could set the handlebar clamp at the same distance I moved the first leg, and used it as a stop. One handy thing about track bikes. It can be tricky when one doesn't have clip-ons. I enjoy your videos!

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thanks for sharing!

[@dustynbustos5983]

@@catalystreactionsbw thank you more! I love your info. Very useful stuff! 👍

[@valon212]

That is actually cool, never thought i could be done without basically straping the bike to the roof🙈 good job Dave! Happy allergy season😊

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Yeah...... it can be very easy to do if you take your time. Boxes of tissues in the trailer lol.

[@DatOldeBiker]

You make it look relatively easy, that's technique and experience I guess. I have tried this method on my 650 - nearly got a hernia lol. :>)

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Patience is a virtue so not rushing allows the work to be easy. I learned that a long time ago the hard way lol....

[@JB82374]

I'd rather set the clip-ons the needed distance below the upper triple clamp, tighten the bolt, then release the triple clamps, and the forks will come up only up to the point where the clip-ons hit the upper triple clamp. The forks cannot "shoot through" this way. Then just tighten the triple clamps and, if neccessary, adjust the clip-on position.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

That works! Many ways to do this :)

[@mt-07slayer60]

Your the man dave!! Lowered my 2019 MT07 forks 8mm and this was confirmation i did the job right, thanks man! On a side note ive watched your videos on how to fix the 07 front suspension and wondered what would you recommend for 145# rider in full gear? Still cut 10 mil off spacer and thicker fluid?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Awesome! Yes, 10mm and 15w oil

[@mt-07slayer60]

@@catalystreactionsbw you are the man, thanks brother. Ill get her swapped out this week!

[@jamiehalifax4954]

My bike seems to have rings scribed around the top of where the shocks sticks up past the top clamp ..must be for assuring both are equal if you dont measure with a caliper..but both combined, would be reassuring 👍

[@denisr7887]

oh wow, and you do it with side stand. I went much longer route, with paddock stands and with front wheel removed ! :D

[@perryssip177]

Thank you for simplifying that cause so many other video make it look hard

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you for watching I appreciate your insight and feedback to know this video was very helpful.

[@vegasLo702]

Hello I have a 2014 Cbr650f The bike is a bit tall and would like to drop the forks a bit What would you recommend most millimeter I can go?

[@Striple]

Hi Dave, does 2mm have a big impact on a bikes behavior. I changed fork oil and by reinstalling them I did put the fork 2mm to low in the triple clamp. Does those 2mm have a big impact in turning behavior or can I leave it like it is. I really appreciate your knowledge about this issue.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

You can leave them. 4mm or more would have an impact that was tangible.

[@Striple]

@@catalystreactionsbw Oh thank you for you response. That's good news, because I don't have a front paddock stand 🙂

[@fmtz8746]

Is there any effect on the bike if you move the forks up or down? Or just personal preference?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Depends on the original rake and trail numbers, so you have to study them. On my Tracer GT, 7mm made a slight difference. On my R6, 1mm makes a difference I can feel. As this is my world, that may not be repeatable for someone trying to get this accomplished fr the first time. they may need 4-5mm on a sport bike for the first adjustment.

[@denisr7887]

Actually question, does this trick way work if the bike does not have clip-ons, but the handle bar..?

[@Silentethief]

Hey Dave, what are the model of calipers you used to measure the fork height? I've done this adjustment recently on my 701SM but found that my normal calipers didn't work. This pair with the end measuring stick seems very useful.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

www.harborfreight.com/6-in-digital-caliper-63711.html?cid=paid_google|||63711&gclid=CjwKCAjwgdX4BRB_EiwAg8O8HYTzfF3nUtqjPQm3FN2SfiFgI2CFAnkHPWlUlH4D_cciwi6GL_K_2BoCBB8QAvD_BwE

[@Jo_Krystelle]

Hi, what if I use back wheel stand. Will the front wheels pop out? Can I also loosen all the bolts at the same time, on the 2 legs.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Using a rear stand helps with stability if there is no side/kick stand. One leg at a time is still the procedure and loosening the last tight bolt has to be done with more care than in this video. That being said, you will at some point need a pin stand for the yokes/triple tree.

[@Nathan2692]

Hi brother, can I still lower my forks if I'm using clip one? Won't it scrub against my bodywork?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Take care to see where you can place them before they hit bodywork. Remember this will also increase the stress on your wrist and hands so reset your levers.

[@thepatchman]

Nice

[@TheCdubbleyoo]

So, is there any difference to tightening the lower clamps bolts first? I just changed my fork oil and decided to try raising the fork legs. Since there was one of me and I have a fairing, I did so by pulling up on the axle (wheel was off) and tightening the upper clamp bolt. My Chiltons says to do the lower first.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

No difference given the task you are doing. The upper clamp is easy to access so it makes the task simple when changing geometry. Tighten the lowers, set torque then loosen and set torque for the top bolts if you want to follow the manual.

[@Sparkybyfifty]

If you have clip ons couldn’t you drop the clip on by the required amount first as a safety stop for the heavy fork?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

You can choose different options and see what happens. This is just one of those choices with a "how to".

[@jaikanths875]

Runny nose seems to be bad. Do take care sir!

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Allergies, 106F ambient and just got off the bike after a test session......... Thank you for your concern

[@andybowyer3602]

Yo! Davie, I've just bought a new 890 duke and I'm 18 stone what should I do with suspension settings?. The forks are bottoming out under heavy breaking. I wish I could get my bike to you as your knowledge is immense. I've been to 2 bike shops in Liverpool UK and they both didn't have a clue as to what I wanted. Thanks dave. Andy Wirral uk👍

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Hi Andy. I have a list of questions for you. Please email me: [e-mail]

[@Nine.siixxx]

Go for a run 👍🏻

[@canberksert4035]

Why do we change the geometry? How it works? I have 2017 tracer 900. What should i do for stabile my bike over 200km/h. My tires are pirelli diablo rosso corsa 2 and brandnew. I am 100kg and i use rear suspension hardest position -1.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

davemosstuning.com/?s=Yamaha+Tracer+GT

[@Nordikbass]

Would you explain how to change the fork oil on an Honda cb650 SOHC.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

That is here:kzbin.info/www/bejne/oWWlqZ2jftyJmrs

[@jonny-p-8927]

Ive got the same folks on my cbr do you have to tourque them and if so how much?and is their a sequence to tightening them?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

There is not a sequence in the manual. I start at the top and work down at 12-16ft lbs of torque.

[@dantenicholas3923]

What is the goal in lowering the front end? Quicker tip in/faster steering?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Correct - a fine balance for me as I want to control it (not have the bike turn for me) but a hernia after 3 laps isn't what I want either.

[@dantenicholas3923]

Dave Moss Tuning I’m about to do the same to my panigale 959. I rode my friends daytona and it steers so much faster than my bike. I’ve already raised the rear, and have been experimenting with higher tire pressure in the front. Will move forks up by 1 “line”. Thanks for the great video! And all the tuning you’ve helped me with at the track 👍🏽

[@stephenburke1397]

Hi dave I have cbr600rr and finding tiping on slow and wooded was going to lower my bars to see if this would help as quite high is there anything else you can recommend thanks

[@hawaiiyamat]

how tight shold the clamps be after adjustment?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

General torque settings are in the 12-20 ft lbs. There is a range due to different bolt face sizes contacting the metal surface.

[@jessefpv9217]

If I lowered my 2005 zx10r 2in in the rear how much would I lower the front??

[@catalystreactionsbw]

1" to start BUT you need to be very careful of clearance between wheel and radiator. Make the forks a little stiffer post lowering with preload and compression to test or put the bike on a rear stand and a front triple tree stand and undo the fork caps, then push the forks all the way until they bottom out on the dust seal to check clearance.

[@khaledkaissar5263]

What about if u want to rise it up to the OEM LEVEL can u do it on the kickstand ?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

100% yes.

[@sackychin6267]

If I were switching from a 180/55 to a 180/60, on an r6, would I add in 5mm of ride height (move the forks down one ring) or do something else?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

It depends where the axle is in the swing arm slot. General first step would be 3mm rise in the front to start to level out the R6.

[@justaguy4real]

so what would be the reasons for making adjustments?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Personal choice on geometry and turn in.

[@justaguy4real]

@@catalystreactionsbw ahhh so that's how they lower their bikes...? Def appreciate your always taking the time to respond, timely too. Or are helpers replying?? Haha. Thx

[@cinpucinpu8932]

for what reason we change fork possition dave?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

When new front tire is bigger in circumference, turn in is too slow or you need to work hard to keep the bike on line during mid corner.

[@R1Salv1]

If I lower the rear of my 2015 Yamaha R1 2”, How much do I then lower the front?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Minimum. 1.5 inches to start.

[@JustDorian]

Just noticed on my ktm duke 790... one leg is lower set than the other by one “line”. With this vid perhaps I’ll change myself rather than go to the dealer. Apart from obviously needing to be changed. Any major issues with this? (I don’t ride track). cheers from UK

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Yes, your geometry means turning one way is much easier. Good eyes, nice catch!

[@JustDorian]

Dave Moss Tuning cheers! I could definitely tell tip in was different on some corners. Good timing on the video :) - will work out if I prefer lefts or rights and match the relevant fork leg! Much appreciated

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@JustDorian You bet - have fun relearning :)

[@GYUx2]

Give the man a tissue!!!🤣🤣🤣

[@everythingsbetternaked473]

5mm fork protrusion for a 1996 cbr 900 rr sounds bout right?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

If the shock is longer than stock yes.

[@raydolinger1980]

Whats the main reason for changing front height ??

[@catalystreactionsbw]

1. To correct geometry based on tyre circumference as per video. 2. To offer better turn in for tight technical tracks. 3. To offer better braking support by raising the front for heavy braking stability.

[@-thirteen]

I cannot, for the life of me, get them the same. one is about 0.25mm off of the other. how critical is equal? Thanks for this great vid

[@catalystreactionsbw]

.5 of a mm is okay, .25 is better

[@-thirteen]

@@catalystreactionsbw perfect. Thanks again. Need another set of hands but will ride as is today

[@luxarydreams7361]

Can i use the kick stand if im changing out my whe fork?

[@luxarydreams7361]

Whole*

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@luxarydreams7361 You cannot if you are removing the fork. You need to get the front wheel in the air sufficiently to remove it, then remove the forks. This can be via a front stand or straps to the roof joists.

[@jamiehalifax4954]

Locktite not necessary?..I seldom use it anyway.. lol

[@twofeels3091]

can i go back yo stock high my like this ?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Yes

[@harrybrown4815]

This shows where age and experience gets the job done, as opposed to youth and enthusiasm and lots of blue air.

[@christiandupree8963]

Yes much age went into the creation of this video. No facts or knowledge, just age and raw experience. I think what you mean is, care and patience gets the job done. Age is irrelevant my friend ;)

[@bigjam8429]

Hey I’ve got a 2005 fireblade and I’ve put a 200 rear tyre on the bike feels harder to turn in, would raising the forks 5mm through the triple clamps help with turn in ? Cheers Dave

[@catalystreactionsbw]

100% yes, especially with the increased circumference. Put the forks at the joint of cap and tube. If steering is still awkward, you may need to soften fork preload 1 or 2 notches.

[@bigjam8429]

@@catalystreactionsbw sorry Dave I meant lowering the front therefore raising the tubes through the top of the triple tree 5mm

[@HMFDRAM]

Hi Dave, I've brought risers for my 2002 R6, basically spaces that go under the orginal clip on's. I've moved the forks up through the yoke to give more fork protrusion by 10mm. The handles are higher now, bike seems to ride well. What are the effects geometry wise?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

100% if the rear axle is in the stock position. If so, move 3mm to raise the front.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@HMFDRAM Hi Shaun. If you change the forks you lower the front and place more weight on the front tyre. If in this case you feel the bike turns better/easier, this is good BUT, please make sure the forks are not bottoming out on the lower triple clamps. Place a cable tie on the right fork chrome tube to see where it travels.

[@thenakedtriple1077]

💪🏼👍🏼

[@tomanycooks]

so why did you do this?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

This track is very technical and I was exhausted after 3 laps trying to turn the bike quickly. Lowering the front helps with turn in and after decades of testing, I know where to go. For others, you go in 2mm increments.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@Greg All depends on what you are looking for on turn in for fork position. On the 06/07 I used 5mm and 15w oil for the OEM internals for track coaching.

[@LunchBXcrue]

Hey Dave I have a question for you! I just bought a bike and am looking to put together a decent tool kit for home for when I need to do maintenance or repairs. Are there any must have tools or tools you would recommend?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Sockets 8mm through to 22mm, ratchet and 12" extension, rear axle socket and breaker bar. Flat blade (4 sizes), set of allens from 12mm to 3mm, small adjustable 10-24mm, #1, 2, 3 and 4 Philllips screwdrivers, needle nose pliers (3 pack). Combination wrenches 8-19mm short handle.

[@unphoto]

@@catalystreactionsbw Or get a complete torx set if it's a S1000(r)r

[@twofeels3091]

how to i un lower it ? i wanna go back to stock hight

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Stock height is easy with the forks and you use stock linkage arms for the shock.

[@twofeels3091]

@@catalystreactionsbw do i do what ur doing ? or do i need to jack it up

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@twofeels3091 If you have a side stand, the forks are easy to do. For the rear shock if you are replacing the OEM links, the rear wheel needs to be in the air.

[@twofeels3091]

@@catalystreactionsbw i can lift the bike back to stock ? i wanna go flush with the forks on my tree my bike low asf when i bought it i can just lean hee over and she’ll go back to normal ?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@twofeels3091 As I mentioned in the first reply, you need the stock linkage arms to get the bike back to stock.

[@ar-15techtipsinunder5minut8]

1 word,.................AFRIN!

[@utkukaratas]

If you do this don't you also need to lower the rear shock somehow? I'd love to do this to my nc750x for flat footing with my short legs but i'm afraid a front only change will screw up the handling too much.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

NC fork lowering 5-7mm helps. It handles better due to trying something and seeing what happens per bike. I learned a long time ago that asking questions and finding answers makes the difference - not the ethereal projection of an unknown outcome. Great science is about asking the question and finding the answers. What if one small change made a positive difference? Would you stop there ot continue on your journey. If you know what you did, you can undo it and go back to where you were. I would encourage you to try.

[@boraboyvr6]

Excuse my ignorance, but What’s the point of move the forks? To lower the bike?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Great question! In this case, to get the bike to turn better at the track (ie: me not get a hernia from the effort it took in the first two sessions).

[@harrybrown4815]

@@catalystreactionsbw that is a lot of effort.

[@seespotride]

I'd be neverous on my italian lightweight panigale kickstand.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Understandable with bolts that are a little more difficult to reach.

[@ashu147228]

Did this using a car jack. Much easier that way. Your method may misalign triple T and wear out stem bearings ?

[@gyzfr6]

Please make a video of that easier car jack method.

[@nobody-xe8tl]

@@gyzfr6 please please make a video

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Sure - I had no jacks and had to do this on with what I had so we used it as an example of what can be done. Using Vernier calipers makes it perfectly accurate. Please explain why you feel this will wear out steering stem bearings that are locked in place?

[@harrybrown4815]

are you saying this can put in a twist between the upper and lower triple T, which will/ can go on to premature wear the head stock bearings?

[@ashu147228]

@@harrybrown4815 yes.

[@imnotahealthandsafetyperso4889]

Sniffing like he hogged all the white lines lol

[@MegaCorm]

Dont do what my pea brain did and losen the two forks 🙊

[@thei.t.fixall2704]

THAT IS NOT HOW YOU USE A MICROMETER.. smh

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Then please post your video of "how to" so we can all learn from you. Thank you.

[@dans2537]

yea it is lol