Chapter 15.2: Thingol's judgement against the Noldor | Silmarillion Explained

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In the conclusion to chapter fifteen of The Silmarillion, Thingol confronts King Finrod Felagund, and the other visiting sons of Finarfin, about the rumours of the Kinslaying. Angrod reveals all to the king of the Sindar, who responds with a new ruling. Years later, at the end of this chapter, Finrod has a moment of insight which will shape his future .
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Featuring:
Yoystan from ‪@MenoftheWest‬ as the voice of Elu Thingol
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Nikoline Bangen as the voice of Melian the Maia:
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The thumbnail features artwork by the-ALEF and Ramiro Liquer.

[@periwinkle43]

The banning of language is a sad thing that has also been experienced by many indigenous tribes across the world. Being american i have friends whose great grandparents were forced into boarding schools where they were made to speak only English and were punished for soeaking their native language

[@H3c171]

Human brutality truly is a work of the devil

[@reflectiverambling1148]

It's times like these with the order for the armor JUST how much foresight the Valar have and what exactly their boundaries are. I love the various interpretations of Cirdan you've chosen here. He always fluctuates a bit in my head. I admit I find Kimberly's utterly stunning. The /detail/. Peaceful Years is also quite lovely. And I am so jealous of all the landscapes, really. As always fantastic guest voice work. “The sons don't help themselves” just might be one of your biggest understatements! To limit a language is one of the greatest thieves of a culture. No doubt as a linguist himself Tolkien knew just how much of a weight/punishment that might be even without some of the more modern atrocities that we've seen of this. I feel so silly for not realizing your note about this being the first instance of politics. There were power struggles, yes, but not inter-community exchanges like this. I love how even though this is covering Sil, you dangle little temptations to the other works as well. Doing the good work, I see. I think one of the most amazing things about Tolkien is how invested he was able to be to the 'very end' of this world when authors of today would be aghast at not 'moving on' to other projects.

[@matthewedwards6025]

The depth of the characters is very Shakespearian, especially in regards to their insights into the motives of others.

[@shanenolan8252]

True im Irish the penal laws ( punishment) were very successful at destroying the Irish language.

[@VoiceofGeekdom]

Swift wrote really brilliantly about this.

[@shanenolan8252]

@@VoiceofGeekdom yes he did .

[@thomasferraro479]

Hey, would you ever consider reviewing the Blind Guardian album "Nightfall in Middle Earth"? Each song on the album is based on The Silmarillion. Maybe you could give us your interpretation of the songs. That be pretty cool. Plus all the songs kick ass lol

[@VoiceofGeekdom]

I love that album; it's a classic (to me!). I'd really like to get Hansi Kürsch from Blind Guardian on the channel for an interview at some point!

[@thomasferraro479]

@@VoiceofGeekdom yes that would be so cool. I'm from the United States, New York in fact and they only tour out here every so often, but I've managed to see them 4 times so far. They are amazing.

[@Enerdhil]

Great summary of the key events in the chapter as well as necessary info from the past to understand the important points you make. You are spoiling lazy readers. lol

[@kerbyt]

Dude you are amazing! Such a great help for a first time reader. I read the Hobbit and LOTR multiple times when young, but "broke my neck" on the Silmarillion, so it's great to come back after 15 years to try again

[@ironblue4593]

Great video, very interesting to watch

[@Dylankiwi1]

Fantastic Video, I really love your insight about the history of language how some have been abandoned. Also yeah the Galadriel situation is always so unfortunate as I love that character but she, doesn't get that much time in the published Silmarillion. What she does get in Unfinished stories is full of contradictory information but still very insightful. Out of all the characters in the Silmarillion one, I think the benefits overtime is definitely Melian. She a rather complex figure which you really have to interpret a lot of her actions. They have some fantastic subtle development from her and subtle characterisation in general. It's always sad to hear when Tolkien, was unable to finish the Silmarillion, it makes you wish it happened but that is life sometimes. But I am grateful what Christopher Complied and preserved his father legacy by enriching it in my opinion. I don't think Middle Earth would be my favourite series if it wasn't for the expanded material. Even though Hobbit + LOTR both are masterpieces in their own right I think Silmarillion and the expanded works gives the world so much more longevity and just depth. One interesting thing is probably Tolkien characterisation being way better in his later writings and especially Silmarillion. He is able to characterise people, extremely well with very brief words later in his life. Anyways excited to see " Of Maeglin" I always interpreted it as a subversion of certain fairy tales that are quite popular in modern culture. Maybe that is just an assumption on my end, but yeah I always felt it was that mini horror tale in the Silmarillion, it felt really personal and tragic. The atmosphere of that chapter for my end in my first read was just brilliant. Also sorry for not commenting on ur other videos, I just want to note, i am always watching this series and I am loving it.

[@VoiceofGeekdom]

Nice to see you -- yeah, the Maeglin origin chapter coming up has a very creepy Brothers Grimm vibe going on. It's one of my favourite chapters, too.

[@s0phie12]

I finally caught up with all your videos on the Silmarillion. Like many others I had started reading the book when I was younger but I did find it quite hard to understand. Thanks to your amazing work, I have started to read again and, between this series and all your other videos, I have to say that I am really enjoying the book. I just have a couple of questions, apologies if this sounds stupid, but I am trying to understand the difference between Aman and Valinor, and between Middle-Earth and Arda. The info I found online was not very clear (at least to me)

[@VoiceofGeekdom]

There are no stupid questions where the Silmarillion is concerned! In his letters and essays and such, Tolkien seems to have used 'Aman' to include the island of 'Tol Eressëa' as well (the island which Ulmo used like a ferry, in chapter five). I tend to think of Aman being the continent as a while, and Valinor being the realm of the Valar within it. Arda is the planet itself, while Eä is the created universe. And Middle-earth is a continent, really, rather than being the entire world. It's confusing, in part, because The Silmarillion actually rarely uses the term 'Middle-earth'.

[@s0phie12]

@@VoiceofGeekdom Thank you so much for your answer. It is really helpful. I guess we are so used to Middle Earth that we use it to describe the whole of Tolkien's work when actually it is a small part of a wider world.

[@dizzlebizzle8424]

not sure what you were on about regarding Cirdan blaming Morgoth for the rumors of the kinslaying while showing a quote from the book showing him claiming it was malice caused by the jealousy of the Noldor

[@VoiceofGeekdom]

I said that he was skeptical and open-minded about the rumours, which he was; not that he blamed Morgoth for them. Apologies if that was worded in such a way that caused confusion!

[@oliveremmettknox7776]

Was Thranduil ever prejudice towards the Noldor Elves?

[@Mattlangston]

Excellent series! Can’t wait for the next one 👏👏

[@jose280714]

I bought Morgoth Ring two weeks ago, and I went yesterday to grab The War of the Jewels, then I have both... I'm reading Unfinished Tales, and there is narrative presents variations in regard to Galadriel and Celeborn... and even a possible son of both...

[@tevajones]

Hi Dan! Love the channel and love this series. I was particularly struck in this video by your citation of the concept of "linguistic genocide" in relationship to Thingol's decree that the language of the Noldor should be banned within in his kingdom. I can't help but wonder, though, if this act might not be better understood as a resistance of colonization at the hands of a technologically superior invading force rather than as an attempted homogenization of a minority culture. Earlier passages in the Silmarillion note that the Noldor possess better smithing abilities than the Sindar and, moreover, that they returned to Middle-earth in part out of a desire to "win freedom and great realms in the lands of the East," which suggests both a desire to dominate the land (and the peoples already living in it) and an ability to do that through superior force of arms (should they so choose). That they are ultimately unsuccessful in disseminating their language, and presumably their culture, seems to be a further illustration of the doom laid upon them by Mandos: "...those that endure in Middle-earth... shall grow weary of the world... and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger races..." After all, the usual outcome that emergences when a colonizing force arrives in a "new" land is that the "indigenous" population is made to conform (rather than the reverse) (though I realize that the Noldor are technically no less indigenous than the Sindar when it comes to Middle-earth). Thus, the failure of the Noldor to achieve this end seems to be part of the deeper pattern at work in their collective fate. Keep up the fantastic work!

[@MarkFilipAnthony]

Not first but still early! Uve helped me understand the book, I use every episode as a recap to remember what Ive read and notice important elements!

[@VoiceofGeekdom]

Glad it helped!

[@shanenolan8252]

Thanks dan

[@phillairious]

Another great recap. Thanks man!