Character creation in role-playing games | Todd Howard and Lex Fridman

[@LexClips]

Full podcast episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmqkcqGMap6Xmqc Lex Fridman podcast channel: kzbin.info Guest bio: Todd Howard is a legendary video game designer at Bethesda Game Studios. He led the development of the Elder Scrolls series and the Fallout series, and an upcoming game Starfield.

[@andrewchisholm4481]

to me, this Todd Howard interview is a bigger deal then the kanye interview

[@gaviingames]

Completely agree. Tod’s the old Kanye of video games

[@PoeLemic]

any interview is bigger and better than any Kayne interview ...

[@ioverslept.]

@@PoeLemic coping hard i see lol

[@Staph1187]

Todd Howard: "A lot of those character creation decisions have been moved into the gameplay" Translation: We made a way to GUARANTEE you play as stealth archer

[@Kg-tj7rz]

You know it dude every dang time that was the way

[@hellomoney333]

Die hard mage.

[@chaserseven2886]

no

[@sgorgardr227]

@@chaserseven2886 + what are they even talking about, i'm sorry)

[@jossebrodeur6033]

That's more a consequence of how powerful that play style is rather than having open ended progression. Since in games where you do have classes, you can just make a class with the best skills and ultimately do the same thing.

[@justinhietpas4593]

I understand the decisions that Todd is making, it makes sense especially for a triple A title to not have a more hardcore, "you made the bed now sleep in it" class system but, and I want to emphasize this. The point of having a class system is to then balance it in the gameplay NOT let the player min max to what they find to be the most effective or fun while playing (why everyone ends up making a stealth archer). The point of having a class system to allow players to experience the game differently than others and make a unique character. In vanilla Skyrim everyone has played the same character for the most part. Melee, Magic, and stealth are the three main archetypes which you can use interchangeably on any character you play because of the lack of prerequisites like needing a certain str, dex, or int. Shouts just bring magic to any character but I wont go too deep into that. Balancing is what it really comes down to in my opinion, every class should feel like it has its moments that make the player think, "I'm glad I chose this class." This is incredibly hard to do and the only game I can think of that does this right is Dark Souls. Older Elder Scrolls titles I feel do this as well but Elder Scrolls combat needs some work to make it feel like you're playing a different character when you choose different playstyles. I think stat points are good and should be in the next Elder Scroll title and having prerequisites for items, spells, and such lets the player invest in himself making the character feel more like its theirs.

[@gmoder100]

Good take

[@PoeLemic]

@@gmoder100 yeah, that's a very awesome take ... totally agree ...

[@Ryy_Ryy]

Ive played Skryim countless times for endless hours. Each time i make a new character, i spend hours and hours doing it. Ive seen all the options at this point, but i LOVE character customization.

[@cryptojuicer]

Who else always spends atleast an hour and a half coming up with a new character?? 😅

[@CitroChannel]

_Only_ an hour and a half? Those are rookie numbers!

[@PoeLemic]

Yeah, that's the funniest part of most games ...

[@NovaRack]

This is a very SPECIAL question.

[@iyziejane]

To me it's not a role-playing game unless it has character creation. Something like The Witcher series is an adventure game playing as Geralt, just like you play as Link in the Legend of Zelda. Character creation is a primary part of the western RPG experience, and BGS does this the best, hands down.

[@colinftp3288]

Agree

[@SplashaP333]

I don’t think you can say that when you take into consideration traditional rpgs and Jrpgs. Also games such as Kingdom Come Deliverance, which has one of the most in depth rpg systems yet.

[@SplashaP333]

@Daruki Neo Role-Playing Game

[@iyziejane]

​@Mark Aspen Yeah that makes sense. I think it also had to do with targeting a younger audience on consoles, and the limitations of console game development (memory constraints on cartridges) that led them to adopt the experience points / stat-based combat but leave out character creation. Modern series like Dark Souls show that Japanese audiences appreciate character customization as much as western audiences do.

[@kaneda7368]

I disagree. In the Witcher, Zelda, even red dead redemption, you _are_ playing a role. You become geralt, or Link, or Arthur, and you form a deep connection with the character because you've been playing as them, playing their role, for dozens of hours. These are just as much role playing games as those with a blank slate character... Unless you think that if you choose a pre-made character sheet, then all of the sudden dungeons and dragons is _no longer_ considered an rpg simply because you didn't make your own character? Is character creation really all there is to an RPG? Or are you maybe putting an exaggerated sense of importance to what is essentially just another moving part of a huge machine?

[@Foogi9000]

If I can't play as a big titty amazon goddess then I might as well not play at all 🍷🗿

[@mygrof]

Hey you, you are finally awake.

[@cyberbfostar]

I'll be spending at least an hour ½ creating my character in Starfield when it comes out lol

[@mygetawayart]

the way he explained his decision to move away from the class system makes a lot of sense and i wholly agree with him. You can create your character into any class you want so that you're not locked into a decision you can only make at the start of the game.

[@bsherman8236]

I like how he kept cooking out of skills

[@bboybreezi2417]

Why is the thumbnail so satisifying!

[@bboybreezi2417]

Skyrim is a masterpiece. Cry more haters. Your grandkids will still be playing it while you winge how broken it is lol

[@GTRrocker84]

It’s going to be in my will that my grand kids have to beat Skyrim to get any inheritance

[@lennystylercasts]

It just works though

[@xXscreamingkoalaXx]

No Todd, it is simplified for casuals because only casuals are afraid of starting over. We all start over voluntarily a hundred times over these 11 years. When will you learn we don't mind starting over? We want to start over. We want many distinct characters. Todd learned nothing from our feedback on this. Why would I make another character when I can get the exact same gameplay experience just by modifying my current one? It encourages the player to make one supreme character that's excellent at everything. Which might as well be the end of roleplaying, the end of the character. How am I supposed to feel like I'm playing a spindly little elf boy that couldn't lift a 2H axe when the game tells me I can do anything I want? You've shifted a large burden to our imaginations. (Or to our programming skill to make mods to change it.) I now have to imagine that I can't equip a 2H axe when I know full well that I can. That doesn't make the experience better. It makes it worse.

[@jossebrodeur6033]

That's bullshit, I'm a hardcore RPG player and I fucking hate starting over a game if I feel like I'm not having fun with the character I've picked. This is the same with a majority of people I've talked to, and it's supported by evidence online. Why do you think the build tutorial genre of video flourishes? Because people don't wanna start over. Just because you personally don't mind restarting, doesn't mean a majority of other people don't mind it.

[@xXscreamingkoalaXx]

@@jossebrodeur6033 I welcome your opinion but consider this. Rarely does anyone "finish" a character. And when they return to the game they want to start from the beginning. I'm just noticing that we do this anyway. The build tutorials are more for the min-maxxers. Also, with modding, starting over is encouraged anyway in order to update your mods and install new mods. There's a lot more restarting going on than completionism in my experience.

[@jossebrodeur6033]

@@xXscreamingkoalaXx While yes, returning to a game after a long period does cause restarting, the issue is less that there isn't classes to begin with it's that one option is objectively better than all the rest of them. Humans have a tendency to follow the path of least resistance, and the most powerful options end up being that path. That's why every character ends up a stealth archer if you aren't actively trying not to be one, it's objectively the easiest way to play the game. This also happens in class based games as well, because certain abilities are so strong that they just are better than using any other ones. The solution isn't class or no class, the solution is to balance things so that one isn't so obviously stronger. In Skyrim's case, making critical hits with regular attacks a thing, and making them stronger than a sneak attack, would go a far way to improve the balance of the game.

[@xXscreamingkoalaXx]

@@jossebrodeur6033 Ok imagine everything is perfectly balanced (impossible as that is.) What motive do you have to NOT use everything the game gives you? If it's all balanced you'll pull out your lightning spell for mages, your bow for poisonous insects, your hammer for heavily armored enemies, etc. After all people just follow the path of least resistance right? Having everything balanced actually makes the problem WORSE. At least right now people have a reason to roleplay a thief stealth archer. If it were balanced there'd be no incentive to roleplay as anything but a master of everything. And THAT's the problem.

[@xXscreamingkoalaXx]

@@jossebrodeur6033 To say that playing the game again is worse than the disincentive to roleplay is insane to me.

[@merkinert3773]

Character creation at the level Elder Scrolls allows is not my cup of tea, but to each their own.

[@bboybreezi2417]

with mods and Bodyslide its pretty damn good man

[@parametr]

The character creation bit is the first step I just skip. Make the eyes higher, lower... don't care at all. Give me a couple archetypes and let me skip the whole thing, please.

[@WolfedOut]

Couldn't be more opposite to me, I can spend hours on character customisation, getting everything just right.

[@bboybreezi2417]

@@WolfedOut me too! Once you get all the mods and Bodyslide its like a whole other game. You really feel like your sculpting a being like a God lol

[@jeremyroberts8822]

I don’t wanna skip character creation per say but I’ve definitely never spent a bunch of time in the character creator screen for any game. I know some people that will spend an hour or more creating theirs but so many of the things you can change about a character I personally find rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I wanna get to the actual game I don’t need to spend hours making minor visual tweaks to the eyes, body, hair, chin etc

[@jossebrodeur6033]

I only spend time creating a character if the tools I have let me actually make a character that looks unique. Skyrim doesn't have that, so I stopped bothering.