Character Development is Overrated

[@absoul112]

It’s almost like storytelling is a complicated subject that has a near infinite amount of ways to manifest. It would make sense to me that we judge based on if a work of fiction’s arc is done well, not that it chooses an approach we don’t care for.

[@CheddahSlammer]

Yeah well everything is really based on opinion anyway. A show can have really good development and another have little to know development and both can be equally loved the same, hated the same, one is hated the other is loved, or one is loved and the other is hated. Its really doesn't matter and depends on what that person likes, compared to another person.

[@laststrike4411]

Ehhh...

[@boysteacher3818]

@@CheddahSlammer In short, everything is subjective.

[@arthurtitangenlpendragon]

@@boysteacher3818 To us.

[@encouraginglyauthentic43]

It's not that complicated, just make sure your story doesn't have asspulls, and that the pacing is consistent.

[@therightone5708]

Finally. People's argument that without character development stories become stale is stupid considering many pieces of media are less stories and more a snapshot into the life of certain person/s(albeit fictional). Also trying to justify the need of character development to make the story more realistic is blatantly wrong considering many media based on autobiographies or just biographies have no "character development". Consider Rorschach from Watchmen who is one of the most beloved and highly regarded character in an already highly regarded graphic novel. The guy doesn't even have a flat line character arc where he brings changes in other characters but is considered a brilliantly written character for his ideological weight in the narrative.

[@Anubis-xk4ht]

Well it depends look at joker and hisoka and Johan liebert heck even deadpool they don't have any growth or change their goals may change from time to time but their cores and personalities are pretty much still the same their characters were always the since their beginning yet they're still engaging and interesting and highly regarded and still have an impact on the story and still interesting to see them around

[@GenesicKaiser]

Tell me about it, I'm sick of the idea that 'character development = good, No character development = bad' They never seem to get that character development can go awry. Example, in Aikatsu, the character Akari worshiped the previous main Ichigo. She emulated her right down to having the same haircut. But eventually she tries to get out from underneath Ichigo's shadow. Now it seems to be going fine, she is developing. But then she hits the deadline for mastering a basic idol peformance appeal (a pose she does timed to virtual reality effects to enhance the performance). Now it looks like she's more complex than Ichigo, which I like. I loved Ichigo, but I could relate to Akari more. She struggles to master the appeal, and it really shows on her face each day of failing to do so. Akari wasn't a pro like Ichigo, she was clumsy and not as gifted as an idol. And then what happens is she does master the appeal. And what happens after is she becomes amazing at everything from then on, suchas concerts, interviews and even more gratingly at the end of the series, the most advanced, hardest appeal that even her more gifted friend Sumire couldn't do. After Akari's sudden pro level from just doing basic stuff, i began to appreciate how better handled Ichigo was. Despite Ichigo being gifted, she did mess up, she had to learn from her mistakes, she overdid herself in performances, she once prioritized making her autographs to fans look pretty than actually talking to the people who came to meet her. And on top of this, she challenge the school's top idol 3 times in her arc, failing two times within S1 and she only won after her 3rd attempt in S2. It also helped that she had her mothers blood, who herself was a legendary idol, which she came to learn at the end of S1. The irony is, that her development led her to becoming a clone of Ichigo, not distinct from Ichigo in character, which I thought was the point of her character being not Ichigo.

[@bosniankumquat1835]

@@Anubis-xk4ht In fairness deadpool does have some character growth in the comics. He's far from the blood thirsty psychopath Liefeld made him.

[@smithydavis1033]

@@bosniankumquat1835 Only because the writers change him to fit their narrative. Its never intentional

[@bosniankumquat1835]

@@smithydavis1033 Deadpool going from one dimensional Slade parody to guy deadly goofball whose a genuinely good friend was before the “woke “ narrative .

[@-tom-8720]

Isn't that the point of a flat line character arc? (It's when a character has an unwavering ideology that is unchanged though out the series and is there to identify a flaw or issue within society or the world the character is in i.e Luffy etc. Compared to a normal or positive character arc where the world identifies a flaw or issue within the character and the character must change to overcome the flaws that once held them back.)

[@thedevilsadvocate4854]

It's exactly that, Goku, Frieza, Joker, Hidan, Luffy, at some extent Naruto, a lot of character have that.

[@daemonspade8316]

@@thedevilsadvocate4854 Naruto definitely has development imo. He just also changes the world around him along with himself.

[@thedevilsadvocate4854]

@@daemonspade8316 At some point in the story, he becomes a flat line character. (when he accepts his hatred).

[@waleuska]

@@daemonspade8316 naruto was always flat.

[@justthatguy9077]

@@waleuska Lmfao... he weren't.

[@zkrust5406]

I think people need to make a distinction between "character development" and "positive character progression", which I often see used interchangeably. Character development is actually a broad term that includes many different things. The way I see it, character development can include anything that fleshes out a character and gives the audience more insight into their ideals, personality, life, etc. such as flashbacks and exposition, or just the character's actions and dialogue. Positive character progression would be what is normally thought of as "character development", where the character's arc involves them growing and changing into a better person. Basically, I would say that character progression is simply one way develop a character, but is in no way the only type of character development, and is definitely not necessary for a story to have strong characters.

[@ThePreciseClimber]

This guy gets it.

[@mariokarter13]

"Character development" is a bit of a misnomer because it implies there's a linear path in one direction. If a character learns to fear something they previously did not, that would be developing the character in a negative direction. It's used as an umbrella term for how the character changes over the course of the story, but it's been oversimplified.

[@chodori2041]

@@mariokarter13 And many acclaimed stories feature characters who demonstrably become worse over time e.g. the titular protagonist in Anna Karenina, Notes Underground, The Bell Jar, etc.

[@SpiderandMosquito]

@@chodori2041 Sweeney Todd, well the musical, but I'm sure that's what you thought I meant. The story is about a man coming for revenge against an evil that wronged him but it makes no excuse for the wrongs Todd is committing... by the end of the story though Todd isn't really doing anything he does for revenge and is just indulging in his massacre because this had become his life and existence now. You could argue that he completely forgot about the very core motivating factors that were the only reasons for us the audience to be invested in him with any degree of sympathy. To the untrained ear that sounds like bad writing but no, this was the tragedy of the character. He starts off with a goal but his nihilistic outlook on life, both his and anyone else's, took over his vengeful motives. Plus, hes a freaking serial killer! It doesn't matter if the person who he wanted to kill all along totally deserves it, your not supposed to be on Todd's side. His character Arc is actually becoming a little less interesting, less nuanced person, because ultimately he lost his humanity

[@thirdplanet4471]

And then there's character derailment when a character grows worse

[@pbtenchi]

Finally. I've been wishing someone would say this for ages.

[@khizarch4910]

I agree!

[@dddmemaybe]

Suck it, English teachers. (this is joke)

[@NaNa-wy2tk]

Characterization > Character Development I personally find character development to be predictable and boring. You usually see it coming immediately and we all know what happens, it's pretty predictable. This is why I prefer subtle character development (paired with excellent characterization>>). People might say a character with good characterization but little development eventually becomes stale but it's depends on the character and if the character is constantly put in diverse situations, then it's possible the character never get stale and can rely on good characterization w/o much help of a character development..in my opinion. People praise this certain anime to high heavens for it's character developments and how it's supposedly one of the major thing that makes it objectively great but a character progressing/changing doesn't automatically make it well written especially when you see the predictable character development from a mile away, and when the series set aside characterization for the sake of character development. This anime characterization in certain arc was a little wonky, a few things were convenient for the sake of development but that's overlooked or people just want to ignore it because they think character development the most important thing for a series to be "objectively" well written. Many people don't realize the characterization has to be good for the character development to be good.

[@NaNa-wy2tk]

I do think most people subconsciously think great characterization is good enough, and that character development is not always necessary if there's great characterization. It makes me recall of someone series of tweet months ago who stated that part 5 jojo is the worse anime they ever watched and they criticized it's lack of character development and the characters objectives. The person received a lot of responses who just said: "I understand what you mean, but I still love it!", "I agree with you but I still like it!" Lmao and he was really perplexed by these responses. I don't think it's lack of character development to be it's biggest flaw, yet some people do think this way. They have this expectations and standard, so they're disappointed when a anime doesn't have it and they just immediately consider it to be terrible. While others (specifically in the elitist anime community) likes characters mainly for their character development. I prefer characters mainly for their good characterization. There's only been very few characters I liked mainly for their development but I find it slightly odd that ppl like characters for their development over characterization, that's liking the story more than the character, and characterization is like the foundation, without it the development would flopped but I guess that doesn't cross ppl mind. I also think because most (shounen) anime are plot driven stories and character development naturally take the backseat in plot driven stories thus not being common in shounen anime, and ppl started to consider character development as one of the ultimate standard for a good (shounen) anime. There's also this whole other topic thzt character driven stories are thematically deeper thus more well written or sumn, idk~ im just all over the place w/ this, watever lol.

[@brandonontama2415]

I 101% agree with you.

[@keodiozubu8670]

Bit characterization can only go so far to make a character entertaining. Unless you are going to have the character change the world or people around him or her that there isn't much their to do and just makes the character boring. That's why imo I find luffy cool but his other crew mates are rather boring in comparison.

[@laststrike4411]

Could you recommend some works that prioritize characterization?

[@Anubis-xk4ht]

@@laststrike4411 hisoka and joker and Johan liebert

[@DAMUSHIRA369]

The use of the term "overrated" is overrated

[@DanVideos]

The description of the word overrated as overrated is overrated

[@larryfoulkeofficial8609]

@@DanVideos the use of saying the description of the word "overrated is overrated" overrated is overrated

[@larryfoulkeofficial8609]

@MKLORD corn is overrated

[@pacegraciejiujitsuacademy8291]

Overrated doesn't mean it's bad it's just means that it's not perfect and has its flaws

[@pacegraciejiujitsuacademy8291]

AND I AM RIGHT!!!!!!

[@FrffyVsBoredom]

This is a really awesome video. I find static characters to be very under-appreciated.

[@ashhabimran239]

Just because a character doesn't develop that much doesn't mean they're bad. The best example of this is Toph Beifong from ATLA, barely receives that much development but still widely loved

[@bosniankumquat1835]

Toph actually grows as character by being more independent from her parents . Uncle Iroh though is the perfect character with a flat character arc. The values of Iroh in season 1 aren't any different from the values of Iroh in season 3.

[@MrSlashblade]

@@bosniankumquat1835 Toph doesn’t really grow, and it was not really independence. If you were going to argue on her developing, it’s her being content with depending on others to help her out and not always toughing it out. It’s still minor since she’s in such a small group.

[@pacegraciejiujitsuacademy8291]

I think another good example are mario and sonic

[@panzermaitor7220]

I wouldn't say character development is overrated, but more likely overused to the point that people think that if character doesn't change, then the character sucks. But I'd say no to that because there are many other ways to making the characters interesting. Like just making them funny, cool, mysterious, smart, ect. They may not change, we are still interested in who they are, and maybe the town, or people around them change, or make the villain change.

[@krawsss_6551]

I disagree with your point at 17:23. Sanji didn't give up any 'half-hearted kindness', those who wanted him to live wanted him to keep having that kindness he has for others, Luffy even finds it to be one of his best qualities. He changed in a manner where he could live for something he believed in/wanted and in turn respected how others chose to do the same for themselves (putting it simply Oda put him in a situation where he would have to be kind AND selfish, in a sense keep true to himself but change how he went about it. Because he wants his crew to stay behind on Yonko territory to help his family, even though he thinks they're terrible people and doesn't even like them). Aside from that, great video.

[@Theybo2]

I somewhat touch on this in my monster video but not with NEAR as much nuance as this. Characters don't need to develop to be well written. I've been saying this since Cowboy Bebop.

[@mechajay3358]

Sometimes a good story doesn't always need characters to change. I wish more people would see that. Also the creator never said Spike died, that's left up to the audience's interpretation.

[@vanjagalovic3621]

To be fair it makes the most sense that Spike dies considering how he failed to move on from his past at the right time and his final bang is supposed to be symbolic of him finalky killing his past and waking up in the present, but he awakens too late and that ultimately leads to his death. Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions, Spike surviving would weaken a lot of the tragedy behind his character and would ultimately weaken the themes of the show, heck even Steve Blum (Spike's english VA) thought he died when he first read the script

[@Harrinsain]

I'd think it obvious that a story should only be praised or criticized for what it attempts to achieve, not what it purposefully leaves out. If a character stays the same over the course of a story, and there is no attempt at character progression or an arc for that character, it is entirely pointless to criticize a series for lacking such an element, precisely because there is no attempt being made at making that a narrative element. That would be like calling Blade Runner bad for not having a Medieval King fight a fire breathing dragon, it obviously isn't trying to be that, so why are you even mentioning such a criticism. Same thing with consistency, many typically consider internal consistency to be extremely important, and a lot of the time it is, but that's only because a significant majority of stories do include a sense of internal consistency, which makes it a problem when it is broken. This is probably why comedy series are seen as an enigma a lot of the time, because ridiculous gag manga like (not all, but some) have basically no consistency in their elements whatsoever, yet it's still a great comedy. because it doesn't attempt to have that element, there's no point in criticizing it for lacking consistency when a large part of it is the fact that it lacks consistency. This is why a lot of comedy can get away with that and something like The last Jedi can't; because TLJ DOES attempt to have a sense of internal consistency, but it can't help but fall flat on its face at every turn.

[@Alienrun]

The problem with this argument is that it requires knowledge of authorial intent, while important, I do think you SHOULD be able to judge a work without it...

[@Harrinsain]

@Alienrun yeah, I agree. I mean, 2 things 1. if a story requires outside information to make it good, then it isn't very good in and of itself, as the additional quality isn't coming from the story itself, it's coming from outside media. 2. An author's word isn't gospel if it goes against the content of the story. As said in 1, the only thing that matters to a story's quality is the content of the story itself. If an author gives some cool information about the story or a part of the world that is supplementary, that's cool. But if you leave out integral information and then tell people about it after the fact, all I'll say is "why wasn't that in the story?" When I say that you should criticize something for what it does, I don't think authorial intent is necessary for that. If the story is well written, all necessary information should be present for picking apart within it, all we as an audience need is the intuition and the critical eye to see that and make judgement. This is why we still have debate. because we can disagree on the purpose of certain elements' inclusion. And so, we debate and we come to conclusions, sometimes people's ideas can co-exist parallel, sometimes they don't, which is when deliberation occurs to find out whose correct. For example, one person can't think that one character is making a smart decision, while another thinks they're the making a dumb decision and both be right, there is one definite solution to that, and so you would debate about that to come to a conclusion using the story as your evidence. Hope i explained myself better, as from your comment, I think I must've mis-communicated somewhere

[@Harrinsain]

@Ivan In The Chat could you elaborate?

[@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093]

@@Harrinsain don't worry about I miss read your comment when I made my original reply

[@Harrinsain]

oh, i see. Well, if you have any criticism, feel free to give it. If not (or even if you do) have a nice day

[@saltymcsalt5241]

Thank you. T H A N K Y O U. H I've been waiting someone to break this Troupe for so long. A story doesn't have to have some big ass psychological wall the main character has to break through for that mc to be a good character. I have no idea how long I've been beating my head against a wall rambling this. And yet you explain it so calmly and simply. Just ... Thank you

[@gangweed5922]

SAAAAAALTY

[@ThatAlphamonDude17]

@@gangweed5922 no u

[@SquidShield]

In my opinion, psychological walls must be present for a character to truly be great. Flaws are what make a character realistic and relatable. By having the main character overcome their mental walls (assuming they are correctly written in service of the narrative) the theme is greatly highlighted. Even the example given of a character being static to show that the world must change is wrong imo. The character could have started off agreeing with the world and then changed to go against the world. Showing that the character has already undergone development can also work, as long it is explicitly shown.

[@laststrike4411]

@@SquidShield A static character can still have flaws.

[@saltymcsalt5241]

@Shaman Xeed no need to insult others for simply stating their opinions. I actually meant to respond to this thread but I've gotten so busy I forgot. And yes a character doesn't have to be relatable or go through a bunch of relatable issues to be good. for the character to be good. There's been several and I truly do mean several stories that does not use that format and all of them are more or less amazing. My favorite example is either one punch man, cowboy Bebop, samurai champloo or space dandy. the reason why character development is used in so many shonen and anime is because of the demographic in audience it's aimed towards. Teenage boys on the verge of becoming men. So it's easier to write a character who goes through psychological and physical changes like the audience to whom the story is directed to. overtime this has easily became the most generally used way of writing shonen but that does not mean it has to be the only one. infact the most memorable anime I can think of doesn't even have a drip lit of inward character development. Just because it's a popular way of writing does not mean it has to be the only one.

[@casual_drinker]

Character development is synonymous with characterization. Character change, characters that undergo character arcs (which the video refers to), is under character development.

[@Zerxezen]

Drizzt should watch this lol. But no seriously, i value his opinions and personal thoughts on one piece, as well as everyone else in the OP fandom, but i've been screaming this topic for so long that i thought it fell on death ears. But this video is an amazing example at how "character development," is not just this one-note linear writing scheme and how its not inherently necessary for a narrative every bloody chapter. Characterization > Character development any day imo.

[@christinawalker101]

and sad

[@Thrdwrld32]

Any video involving an analysis of Gatchaman Crowds gets a like from me. Amazing show. Good analysis.

[@roronoaban3698]

Literally 20 seconds in, but ik this is gonna be a fantastic video. I've been waiting for someone to say this. People who use the old "One piece doesn't have character dvp so it's bad" argument rlly haven't been paying attention in their literature class then. They expect every story to have character dvp but that's not how it is and to boot it up, they even get the definition of character dvp wrong. If i remember my grade 9 English class correctly, Isn't character dvp when a character is fleshed out and has nuances that solidify him or her has a humane character? But these kids on instagram and on twitter hear the development in character dvp and think it means the character DEVELOPS as the story goes on. But that's not the case, and even if it is the case that doesn't equate to good characterization. People say OP doesn't have character dvp, which is horrendously wrong, but if character dvp is so imperial to a show and it's validity for great characters, then how come the one piece cast is so loved all around the world?

[@ThatAlphamonDude17]

"but if character dvp is so imperial to a show and it's validity for great characters, then how come the one piece cast is so loved all around the world?" That's a great question. People often put, for example, Luffy's virtues as a character aside and just call him a flat or bad character just because he isn't "mature" or "complex", yet he's still one of the most loveable characters in anime/manga. If you read his story it will be crystal clear that he's a plenty developed character with his own strenghts, weakneses and unique traits, with his motivations being more than well explained and justified. He even indeed matured and that's something you can realize if you pay attention to his actions and dialogues, being a good example his speech to the Udon's prisoners in Wano arc. If he doesn't changes TOO MUCH is because HE DOESN'T NEED TO, that's what people can't seem to understand and that was also the whole point of Sanji's arc in WCI, he didn't need to "develop" because he already was well developed as a character. It's the same with the rest of the crew in their own way. If you have values that are sacred for you (like Luffy's freedom or Sanji's moral code as a cook and gentleman) then you don't fucking change just because you "need" to "grow". I mean, we all are stubborn to death in at least something lol. Aside from that, side characters in OP are terribly underrated when it comes to character development. Noland/Calgara, Queen Otohime, Fisher Tiger, King Riku or Kyros are good but few examples imo.

[@roronoaban3698]

Shaad ADD MY BOI BONCLAY IN THERE. God I hated everything about him in the beginning, to his designs, his personality, his uselessness as a character. But now he's one of fav side characters in anime. Oda achieved exactly what he wanted with the creation of Luffy. I'm pretty sure the disses people love to give Luffy when they don't rlly understand him was intended by Oda in his creation of luffy. At a surface level, we see a goofy boy who's very simplistic in both as a character, his dreams, his ethical code and even his powers. But as the story goes on and guides us through a multifaceted world, we see glimpses of how powerful and accurate Luffy's simple beliefs are. His ideals such as "we all bleed the same colour no matter how different we look" in Fishman Island is so simple, but it is what we need in our societies, no matter the era. Luffy, in his own way, really is a complex character. But it's just not in a blatant fashion where everyone can see that "oh this character is supposed to be deep" like Naruto. Luffy'scomplexity is written in a subtle manner that when the readers and viewers pick it up, we are astounded by Luffy's incredible wisdom. It certainly explains why he's so loved that there's statues of him all around Japan. Word of advice, If you ever find yourself in a debate about how luffy isn't a complex character online, it's probably kids trying to act like as if they know everything about storytelling when they have barely ever picked up a book.

[@glory1950]

Their can be no better main character than Luffy for a show like One Piece

[@impmadness]

I’m a simple man, I see Cowboy Bebop, I click

[@elijahjarobi]

Thank you, a lot of people over value character development because they struggle to identify what makes a story good. Hopefully this can change.

[@mistersureshot1749]

I wouldn't go as far as saying overrated. Change isn't a requirement of every character, just the ones the author deems necessary to communicate the story's message effectively. Sometimes that means one, sometimes the whole cast. I'm fine with very little change so long as we're given adequate insight into the pro/antagonists' prior experiences, beliefs, and motivations, especially as they relate to character behavior/plot progression.

[@cruelcumber5317]

He says overrated because the general consensus is that change is a requirement. You may not have have personally put character development on a pedestal, but it is a fairly common stance to do just that.

[@mistersureshot1749]

@@cruelcumber5317 I guess to an extent you can still make a static character be a rounded character. Because if you show hidden depths of their motivations/drives, they would want to stick with their ideologies to the very end no matter how much the world would shit on them.

[@waleuska]

@@mistersureshot1749 I don't think people care about rounded characters only character development. Like Luffy is a well rounded character but people bitch about him being static.

[@waleuska]

@loafhero But he doesn't need to grow that is the problem. He is a fully develop character and the point of his actions don't need to change. He doesn't need to let's say mature because his end goal is a selfish one. He isn't trying to save the world or even care about it. We learn that he doesn't want to be a hero because it means he have to share. Why would this person grow when he doesn't need to. He isn't stupid he understand he needs allies to help him. Back in arlong arc, he talk about why he made a crew because he can't do everything himself. He is an adult that understand his goals and how to get it.

[@o.s.i1344]

waleuska I'd argue Luffy has shown growth over the course of the story though. Because while he understood that he needed allies, he never trusted them to hold their own. Back in Arlong Park, he was the only one who could beat Arlong, if he lost, that would have been the end for everyone. But Luffy was way stronger than just about anyone at that point in the story, so he never had any reason to worry about his mindset (He was also the only one who could beat Crocodile and Eneru). It isn't until his overwhelming loss to Aokiji does he start to realise that he's still weak and can't protect his crew with certainty. Luffy also didn't want to be alone, according to him it was worse than getting hurt. And because his enemies kept getting more and more stronger, Luffy was gradually killing himself but didn't mind if it meant his crew would live. He did everything to try to shoulder the burden that was the increasing power gap between him, his crew and his foes. This contributed to their loss at Sabaody because Luffy didn't trust that the crew could take care of themselves under such an overwhelming force. Compared to Whole Cake Island, where they were once again put against an overwhelming threat, Luffy had complete faith that the crew would be able to escape from Big Mom and her family on their own. Even when presented with the opportunity to return to help them, he instead went back to fight Katakuri in order to improve and grow. IMO Luffy's a dynamic character, his development is just subtle.

[@CodeBlazeFate]

Oh thank God, finally, someone gets it! Character development is a tool, something that has to be earned naturally, not something mandatory or inherently good. I think the greatest sign of why character development is a tool rather than an inherent strength jd the fact that Kirito develops substantially in the first 4 episodes of SAO but it's so rushed and start/stop that it feels meaningless and people often think of him as just a boring Mary sue with nothing to him anyway despite this and other examples of him developing as a character/person. Oh, and also, flat-arc protagonists can work too and more people need to recognize thst.

[@chodori2041]

It also depends on the strengths and limitations of the genre. Oftentimes a shounen ensemble piece is simply too large for every single character to have a fleshed-out development arc. Any attempt to pull it off would slow the pacing to a crawl and end up with a bunch of half-assed arcs. Time-wise it's more manageable for the writer to rely on distinct characterization and have the relevant players bounce off each other in intriguing/entertaining ways. Similarly, comedy usually works by establishing archetypes and interpersonal dynamics early on only to elicit laughs through minor variations on those dynamics and new external circumstances. Thanks to Kenji Inoue's other strengths, Grand Blue is consistently funny despite only having 1 character with significant internal conflict (Chisa). He puts characters in novel scenarios to trigger unpredictable, yet familiar, reactions.

[@khizarch4910]

I love it when people aren’t bogged down by words like ‘Static Characters’ and Character Growth, and instead find joy in planning out or even winging a satisfying story created to say something. A story is a conversation through ‘narrative’, and it is there for everyone to hear.

[@Anubis-xk4ht]

Hisoka and joker are perfect examples of static characters done right despite staying the same they're still engaging and interesting and flexible they have an impact on the story and still interesting to see around they change the world around them instead of changing, am I not right?

[@khizarch4910]

Anubis exactly!

[@Anubis-xk4ht]

@@khizarch4910 take characters like guts and kakashi or batman and daredevil these characters are all about growth these 4 are more in depth than the likes of hisoka and joker because they're more fleshed out and better developed and their personalities keeps growing and changing those are what you call dynamic and round characters.

[@CheddahSlammer]

Also from my experience people confuse what they think is character development with what is really characterization. Like people always talk about a Backstory of a character as development, when its characterization because its establishing and fleshing out what we already know about the character.

[@mtgleam8723]

Character development is very important and can be utilized to make stories great, but not every character needs it. It's possible to have a great character without development.

[@montystudios2991]

That's kind of bullshit personally. Because most of the time on a entertainment level, the protagonist is fun to watch But character wise, everyone else has more lairs

[@vsear5911]

Funny that you used Riko's theme. There were a lot of complaints about Riko's character development (or lack thereof) while Made in Abyss was airing. She does change her behavior later (development haircut (tm) included) in the manga, but as far as the TV series goes it is correct to say she changes very little. Yet Riko's dumb optimism remaining what it is is the only thing that holds the story together into something more than an eternal pity party - the contrast and even conflict between hope and the Abyss. It's no coincidence that she's dragged out of the spotlight whenever drama has to happen. The recent manga chapters with prolonged absence of Riko sperging out show just how depressing and dull the universe becomes without her around. Although that conflict doesn't become clear in the anime until shit hits the fan, it develops into a major plot theme, even as Riko's character remains static.

[@danielola-abidoye1365]

Damn I’m glad you said this

[@mrcuccob]

You're a good boy Tobi.

[@danielola-abidoye1365]

MrCucco B 😊

[@khizarch4910]

When your better at pointing out the crp that of writers better than anyone else... Sharing it and giving others your insight.

[@alicethetransdalek7333]

this so much, i go to stuff like Monster for character development, if something like One Piece or Dragon Ball doesn't have it, it doesn't matter because it's not what the story is about

[@mediatech1588]

@Rtkts he doesn't mean that he means that Luffy just got his first development and that's it. Luffy to now is the same as in the first episode. to me I don't want Luffy to get changed for example I like Naruto in Naruto not in Naruto shpdn ( my point is not every development is great )

[@mediatech1588]

@Rtkts Of course one piece is heavily in this Category that is why One Piece is 960 shapters. for exp senor pink.

[@MrJerkdude1]

Finally someone made a video about this

[@maqhem]

I think there's a distinction to be made between character development as a concept and well-written character development. As a concept it is simply a tool like any other in the writer's toolbox. All of them can be used to make a good story great but none of them inherently do so. Indeed, sometimes these devices are used to the detriment of the story. I think a facet that is often overlooked is just how much context matters to character development (you did touch on this in the video). Good character development is not defined by the development itself as if it somehow exists in a vacuum; more often than not (perhaps even always) it is the context that surrounds the development that gives it true meaning, and good character development is by no means overrated. This is not the on-the-nose, leave-nothing-to-the-imagination "oh I suddenly believe something else" type of change, rather, good character development is -- at least in my own experience -- a slow burn; something that may manifests without the viewer consciously noticing. It's usually something you realize in hindsight. One of the best examples of this is Killua from HxH. The change is subtle compared to many others, yet it is profound, and it helps flesh him out as a character and give him far more nuance and depth than his sidekick Gon who is, by comparison, flat as a sheet of paper. It's also worth mentioning that character development can happen retroactively, e.g. the reader/viewer learns that a character used to be different. On its own this isn't all too exhilarating but when we learn why and how that change came to be (context) it can do the same thing as on-screen development, albeit perhaps to a slightly lesser degree. The terminology might be different, I'm not sure, but the effect is still roughly the same. It can still be good. It can also be garbage. Even if you think character development is overrated, there is no denying the fact that long running shows need something to spice them up. Without fresh air every once in a while the show will slowly rot as it regurgitates the same episode week after week. Something needs to chance. It doesn't need to be an internal change, of course, it can be external as well. Changing the world, setting, mood, tension, cast, or overarching plot can all help bring the same kind of fresh air as character development can, although I've found that the effect is short-lived compared to character growth. Lastly, good and consistent character development is one of the few things that long running shows can pull off in a way that simply cannot be matched by movies or single season shows. There's something incredibly satisfying about witnessing a beloved character grow and change over tens or even hundreds of hours. It still needs to be well-written, of course. In short: Is character development overrated? Yes. Is character well-written development overrated? Fuck no. It's amazing. But you know, we all enjoy stories for different reasons. I watch for the characters. I don't think I could name a single favorite that didn't get at least some amount of character development because without it they tend to be quite shallow; perhaps not compared to _anime_ characters but definitely compared to characters in general.

[@KenjuStorm]

First of all THANK YOU so much for making a video about this topic. I've always felt that ppl tunnel vision on character development so much that they ignore other aspects of the story

[@mariokarter13]

Character Development is overrated, to illustrate this point, here are a bunch of characters that were completely different in their backstory... I guess we're playing by "the watched pot" rule. You can see it cold, you can see it boiling, but don't you dare watch it change between the two.

[@cruelcumber5317]

At the very least, people need to stop saying "[Random side character] didn't get much development" as though that means anything.

[@zkrust5406]

If the side character doesn't take up much screen time or is otherwise only supplemental to the story, then it's fine if they aren't very developed. However, if the character takes up a good amount screen time, or even worse, that character is killed off just to ratchet up the tension and generate cheap emotions, then I think it does matter that the character gets some proper development.

[@itsjustvin7630]

@loafhero not always. Their simple characterization would be enough for a following

[@barbe-rose]

Saitama's OPM might be the best exemple of that

[@barbe-rose]

@loafhero I get what you're saying but being static might be Saitama's whole point lol, for a manga such as One Punch Man at least. OPM and MP100 are two different story that are doing different things. The fact that you're trying to applie MB's strong(and main) point being Mob's evolution to OPM's cast which clearly is doing something totally different(at it's core a gag manga) is just proving Craftsdwarf's point in the sense that it doesn't make it a weaker story, just a different one and if you find the characters boring well, nothing to argue here it's your opinion. Personally I think most of them are interesting and get subtle developement here and there, not every change has to be in your face or super dramactic.

[@Manganization]

+Loafhero, hell yes. Saitama never changes and rarely is ever in the spotlight, but whenever he enters the story a character goes through change. This happens with Genos, King, Blizzard and basically any character that is in conflict or is witness to Saitama's strength. Telling you of the others will spoil the manga. Saitama is literally a hero because he brings positive change to the system, and he does that in an indirect way like Haru from Gatchaman Crowds

[@chodori2041]

@@Manganization "Saitama is literally a hero because he brings positive change to the system" Except he doesn't...at all. This is just a clever trick ONE pulls off by having Saitama reject/ignore some of the supporting characters' fears and insecurities, which leads them to become implausible friends. These changes are part of the show's habit of poking fun of standard shounen tropes; the protagonist's typical ability to sway his enemies' hearts is made ludicrous by how clueless and childish OPM's protagonist is of the world around him (think about how often Naruto compelled his opponents to abandon their ideologies by dint of his unwavering optimism and passionate arguments). One of the primary running themes is how Saitama is a hero in name only...and so are many of the exalted figures who are worshipped and venerated by the public. If anything, the driving force behind Saitama's journey is gaining recognition from the system itself by being promoted to S-rank. There's a strong argument OPM's popularity stems from embracing extreme cynicism of its world while simultaneously being a narcissistic power fantasy people can indulge in.

[@Manganization]

@@chodori2041 "There's a strong argument OPM's popularity stems from embracing extreme cynicism of its world while simultaneously being a narcissistic power fantasy people can indulge in." WUT? There's absolutely no way anyone reading can relate to Saitama, so it's definitely nothing close to a power fantasy people can indulge in. And Saitama doesn't ignore the supporting cast fears. He acknowledges King's short-comings and even gave him some tips, and he clearly respects Mumen Rider. Saitama does bring change to the system, even if he's not aware of it, as every hero who comes into contact with him for a prolonged period of time has to come to the realisation that their strength isn't worth shit when there's people who's clearly on a whole other level but isn't even recognised as such.

[@Anubis-xk4ht]

@@Manganization look at hisoka and joker and Johan liebert they don't change and evolve they're pretty much the same characters from start to finish but yet they're still engaging and interesting and entertaining characters to watch they don't develope their goals may change from time to time but their cores and personalities are pretty much the same yet they have an impact on the story and still interesting to see them around,right ?

[@mutesgraveyard6733]

Character development really needed for boring/unenteresting character, a character that become annoying if he/she did the same thing over and over again. But if you can created a character with a good and strong fundamental then its not that important or you just need a little bit of that(giving too much could possibly backfire and destroy the character entirely)

[@NipahAllDay]

Haircut as a symbol for development is overrated

[@upg5147]

Wrong word. Overrated would imply people find that needed or the only way to show development. It's more overused/cliche. I personally like it though (same with a changed character design overall)

[@grm6486]

Interesting video Craftsboy

[@uglydougdavis7841]

While I agree with your conclusion your video doen't seem to support the claim you are trying to make. Out of 6 examples, 4 had character development themselves and a 5th caused it in those around them. That leaves only Cowboy Bebop as a show which had no character development. Rather than pointing out that character development isn't important you show how it can be used in a variety of situations and for deeper reasons than just existing on its own, showing its versatility as a writing tool. This makes me think your complaint is more that people treat character development as a yes/no question of "did the character fix their flaw" rather than recognizing why character development actually made a story better.

[@keen96]

Yeah, agree. Finished the video quite confused, given how most of his claims involved character development.

[@dabilaroali1037]

What I understood from what he was showing is that we shouldn't praise character development for being character development but rather for what it brings to the story. I hear too many times people complaining about the lack of character development while not saying how it would enhance the story. For instance in a comedy characters development could come at the cost of the comedic value and dynamic of the show. And As you said in the 5th, some characters can't develop because their ideology is what brings conflict to the story.Blaming such character for a lack of development would be misunderstanding the purpose the character has in the story.

[@vazak11]

Insightful!

[@penixtrite6709]

FUCKING FINALLY I'm so sick of people falsely "critiquing" something for "lack of character development" even if that wasn't the point of the story and is telling a different type of narrative

[@zero1188]

basically, a character is typically the same exactly person from beginning to end

[@dragon-kun199]

DarnellOB98 I’d argue that Luffy did have some positive character development. He’s more aware of the outside world and know struggle and pain.

[@newdawnhorizon9879]

@@dragon-kun199 he didn't learn from it

[@dragon-kun199]

New Dawn Horizon Luffy is not as comical as he used to be and Zoro barely laughs now and his dream shifted from becoming the best swordsman to also helping Luffy in any way possible as demonstrated in Thriller Bark. Ussop is less of a coward. I’d say that’s character development.

[@Anubis-xk4ht]

@@dragon-kun199 look at hisoka and joker and Johan liebert they don't have change their goals may change from time to time but their cores and personalities are pretty much the same they change the world around them yet they're still engaging and interesting and still have an impact on the story

[@dragon-kun199]

Anubis I mean, I haven’t seen HunterxHunter yet but I’ll take your word for it. I’m just saying Luffy both changes his world around him and he himself had nuance changes, especially Zoro. He mostly changes the world and has the same core personality but has experiences that affect his actions. To me, that’s character development.

[@manuelquintana3401]

*Gintoki sakata has entered the chat*

[@romulusnuma116]

Cursed thumbnail

[@CheddahSlammer]

What was that first Anime that was an example, never seen it, now I want to see it cause it looks interesting.

[@peterclaymore2239]

I think overrated is not an appropriate assessment. Maybe the reason we keep seeing character development so much is because of how universally useful the literary strategy is. "If you have effective characters in place, you will be unbeatable. Taken to the extreme, this means that compelling characters negate the need for a story or setting. that's how important they are" - Hirohiko Araki (creator of Jojo's bizarre adventure and writer of 'Manga in theory and practice' )

[@smithydavis1033]

Also to explain the last part some stories requires character development and some doesn't it matter on what story are you telling

[@vsear5911]

6:47 wtf is saya doing in this anime i never heard of kek

[@jordanperkins7186]

instalike because someone else acknowledges that katekyo hitman reborn exists

[@irishcream9004]

An old man like yang wenli does not need to change while julian minci is a very young man who does not quite know who he is

[@AnEndlessStrategy]

Fantastic, a video to remember. Meticulous and clear argument. (And that one of the shows used as example has reputation such that no one would normally go to it as a meaningful point of discussion, amusingly furthers the point in an additional way). It was an argument strong enough as to not need qualifiers and reservations, but in stating them anyway you of course strengthen the conveyance of your position against over-reliance on character development, as an argument that fully appreciates the value of the viewpoint it criticizes is all the more compelling in conclusion.

[@tomjack1000000]

Just curious but with gatchaman crowds can the world be considered a character? Do they need to have background characters and crowds representing the world or is it it's own entity. Of course the world isnt necessarily a character but this idea has peaked my interest (sorry if I sound like a knob)

[@roronoaban3698]

💀💀💀💀DUDE YOU DID NOT JUST USE SCHOOL DAYS AS AN EXAMPLE

[@dragon-kun199]

Roronoa Ban I just love School Days due to its uniqueness. I just needed a Death Note Slice of Life in my life.

[@goochystankmama1950]

he did and it was glorious

[@dk1800ify]

I did not need this bruh ugh.

[@kaininjathundermmandopoke5167]

Some things never change.

[@zteevydood870]

Character Development doesn't just refer to how a character changes, it also means how a character is fleshed out and characterised even if they don't change as a person over the course of the narrative.

[@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093]

Most people just refer to that as characterization

[@zteevydood870]

@@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093 yeah but that's what character development is, it's a lot broader than most people realise

[@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093]

@@zteevydood870 I mean your right but he is just using the term everyone uses so it's easier to understand. It's like anime. It's definition that is broad but people use the term for something more specific

[@zteevydood870]

@@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093 oh no, I totally get that, this comment wasn't even really directed at him, just anyone reading through the comments section.

[@gottesurteil3201]

A character can develop based on how they react to new circumstance. We learn new things about them and yet they stay the same, they develop in that way. Like how Gumball's mom slowly developed into a super-ninja. She was always like that, but as we got to know her better we found more information.

[@kmk314]

That being said, I think I like characters with character development more because I like people who can radically change and reshape themselves. And if there are multiple people who can change in reasonable ways, the story will have an ever-changing equilibrium that's interesting to explore. It can potentially never end. I might be a pleb, TBH. I like My Hero Academia and didn't really find Cowboy Bebop to be that impressive. Although My Hero Academia have some static characters here and there, they get explored in some arcs and they come back into the story in interesting ways. Iida changing himself, and recognising Deku's stress in the latest arc being an extremely beautiful moment to me as an example of it. And *manga SPOILERS* apparently Aizawa is about to get backstory development, with a traumatic reveal. I think I might be defending My Hero Academia for having ever-changing world and characters as far as I can see. 😅

[@santana8797]

I agree I didn't get the hype behind Cowboy Bebop it's pretty boring and my hero academia is probably one of the best manga/shonen of this era.

[@glory1950]

Ah yes, the time when people actually expected anything from MHA

[@Ken-pn4of]

FAX!💯💯💯💯📠📠📠‼️

[@Nat_Blasphemous]

Hajime's example is called a flat arc.

[@talenstout8324]

The story should be carried by the plot. People shouldn’t change they should be true to themself. See staying true to yourself. We need proper villains. See staying true to yourself. Stories shouldn’t be relatable, they should be an escape, characters shouldn’t be relatable, they should be likable.

[@jonahj9519]

TIL That Viscous’s name is apparently Sid.

[@davifelizardo4187]

11:12 This part always bugs my brain

[@adoniscreed4031]

God I loooooooove Hajime! She really takes Gatchaman to a whole new level of quality

[@smithydavis1033]

To anyone who doesn't get is this, A character is only as good as the story and concept is. No matter how great a character seems without good story telling and settings a character is nothing. Not even character development can change that.

[@LinhTran_323]

I find it is important for a shonen mc to have a core character trait. Yes they can change for the better or worse, but their main value should stay the same. Because the things about Shonen is the the whole story is about the mc, if the mc has dynamic change, it will fuck up the story. I consider it lazy writing. It’s like you establish an universe, but cannot come up with anything within the border you made, so you decide to change the mc to crash your own border, which is so bad planned and lazy to me, why establish such an border that unable to develop then? I can accept any changes within the border, but if the author decide to change the foundation of the world built, then I must say goodbye.

[@scarlettryuken4320]

biggest disprovenment of this character development is needed and automatically a good thing is to just look at the animes community take on fate franchise sieg is derided and shat on by everyone for being a cardboard character and takes up too much screentime' despite those entire basis being the point that leads to ACTUAL character development its because he has no character of his own that he gains them across the series and becomes a true hero him taking away the screentime is also because of that every hero he meets directly contributes somehow to his growth as a person but no instantly bad character despite literally being a point FOR char dev bungou no one actually thinks atushi is a great character who has great character development everyone who watches bungou agrees most of the side characters who at best only develops in the prequel novels they show abit off are better LoTGH sure the main characters surrounding cirumstances changes but by in large yang and reinhards dont really have much char dev and theyre still some of the best chars in media and lotgh is still a great show lupin: a series that thrives on non character progression to the point the 2012 series and the 5th series make it their point

[@princegamer-u1u]

Honstly i dislike character development Because for one it defeats the entire purpose of being yourself Like sure let the character learn new things and what not but dont change there personality and beliefs And 2 . If you change their personality or beliefs completely or just in general then what's the point of the character in the first place? It's like creating a new character entirely... And lastly number 3 when characters be them selfs pepole can relate too them when they get too know them better as a character

[@Multi1]

What about neutral dynamic and stagnation.

[@Anubis-xk4ht]

Slade and joker

[@authorbhattacharjee4957]

Idk man the favourite thing I like in a character is character development. That's pretty much it. If a character has no development than I won't say it's a bad character but it's definitely unlikeable for me. Unless it's a character I can relate to. But even if a relatable character develops into someone I would hate in real life. I still won't say it's a bad character. I won't say I would like that character as a person but I will definitely like it as a character.

[@petrolandcoffee]

three words SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF

[@AlexAndriy1995]

kinda obvious idea , but good video

[@laffy7204]

So... Character progression is just one of the character arcs?

[@upg5147]

Sort of.

[@Mojavekight17]

All depends...

[@LeykiZenam]

I really shouldn't watch videos in 2x speed because I'll end up not paying attention and not understanding what the person is trying to say. I watched half of this video in that speed and then dropped it. (This comment is so unnecessary.)

[@gottesurteil3201]

If a piece of paper grows in length, but remains blank, that paper has still developed. A character does not simply develop based upon how he changes, rather how he reacts to changing circumstances around him. The best characters by far are those whose core characteristics are, at the very least, challenged by the events or antagonistic forces of a story. If a character does not change the core of who he is throughout the story, even with the latter being challenged as I mentioned, we can say he developed by showcasing his resolve and integrity. This is a silly matter of playing semantics and a waste of time, I don't even know a single person arguing the position you are trying to refute.

[@billykotsos4642]

0:57 Anime? Asking for a friend.

[@upg5147]

Gurren Lagann. This is a much watch if you haven't seen it. Go in blind and enjoy the ride! I'd love to hear your thoughts afterwards

[@nohomo4774]

​@@upg5147 sucked after older bro died :/

[@upg5147]

@@nohomo4774 Major spoiler buddy. But yeah I'm pretty sure that was like one of the first big deaths in anime I saw. It really got me

[@El_Ace]

Yeah, I agree

[@Maethendias]

someone forgot to breath

[@hakalakalaka0.963]

such a good point. Too many people ignore the fact stories have more moving parts than whether a character changes or not

[@gabrielwright-dunn9355]

Neat.

[@TheKrigeron]

Wait. I'm pretty sure Shirase believed her mom to be dead too, or is my memory failing me?

[@mateomonroy5192]

Dude, even Cowboy Bebop has character development, Spike and the other characters are not static at all.

[@MovieEnforcer]

Character Development makes the story pretentious .

[@omnipotentturkey0632]

Alright I’m finna say this now. Eren from Attack on Titan is the most overrated main character I ever seen and heard of.

[@JohanElric]

How so? (I'm just wondering)

[@omnipotentturkey0632]

RobbieRotten1 the only thing i hear about eren is how he constantly changes and evolves so many times throughout his story and people keep on saying his the best protagonist in history because of that

[@JohanElric]

@@omnipotentturkey0632 ah, that's interesting

[@upg5147]

Don't get me started bro! I've had so many people try to shut me down for thinking this. Eren goes through changes like phases of the Moon and it doesn't make him feel flesh out or matured, it makes him feel like a child who can't make up his mind

[@omnipotentturkey0632]

Ryan Perez exactly thank you

[@Gadget-Walkwomen0343-bk7lb]

And also pokemon anime characters development is overrated and literally flaw.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

Your title is one I fundamentally agree with. However I also believe Conflict is overrated. There is no actual proof Sekai faked the Pregnancy, you're taking the word of a delusional psychopath with no medical training.

[@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093]

I can't really think of any story that doesn't have some sort of conflict even if it's something trivial. Even comedies with no plot normally need it to set up jokes

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093 I can think of a lot of fiction that doesn't really have a story.

[@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093]

@@Kuudere-Kun everything has a story. It may not have an over arching plot but I don't think their is any show that doesn't have something happening during and episode and if it really didn't have anything happening then i can't imagine it being good

[@itsjustvin7630]

@@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093 by that logic a blank paper has a story too even if it was just intended to be a blank paper

[@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093]

@@itsjustvin7630 no because nothing happens on a piece of paper

[@dragunov815]

Hm.

[@gravethestampede3454]

Someone needed to say it. "It has good character development" is to praise what "it has slow pacing" or "it has a plothole(s)" is to criticism. It's just a canned argument that lot's of people tricked themselves into thinking they need and it limits people in their willingness to approach a story on its own terms.

[@papaaeon7210]

180 degree character shifts are overrated af and any child can write it

[@gottesurteil3201]

Would have been nice if he addressed that instead of making this video.

[@DragonoftheDarknessFlame]

You mean like Bakago

[@DragonoftheDarknessFlame]

@Shaman Xeed You don't get it he's talking about characters that act one then they the do a big ass character change instead of gradually changing the character

[@DragonoftheDarknessFlame]

@Shaman Xeed Your channel is based on hating popular manga anime and games your opinion is irrelevant to any conversation on what I like

[@DragonoftheDarknessFlame]

@Shaman Xeed Do you know how to read? Your opinion on what I like is irrelevant

[@bujoodoo1]

Didn’t watch the video but agreed

[@jpickens189]

in just about every story there is at least a character, a world and a reader. one of these has to change, or you have no story.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

False

[@jpickens189]

@@Kuudere-Kun Example?

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@@jpickens189 Lucky Star.

[@jpickens189]

@@Kuudere-Kun I haven't seen that, but I understand it was culturally influential in it's time. That means it changed the reader.

[@itsjustvin7630]

@@jpickens189 not really

[@erejnion]

One minute in, and I already disagree on a lot of stuff. You can do chara development without conflict. If anything, people like chara development because people like continuity, like realism (self-consistency) and really hate everything returning to the status quo after the end of the arc. K, 17 more minutes to watch now, you probably address this stuff.

[@upg5147]

That's if you are dealing with a story that requires characters to develop (like a shounen). But many stories can have characters that have already gone through all that development off scene prior to the start of the series. You then use characterization for a substitute for character development

[@someonesreviews]

This video is literally an argument for the value of character development omfg

[@gottesurteil3201]

Thank you a reasonable person does exist in this comment section.

[@perrydunetz882]

As if the lack of character development was the problem with bebop

[@AndreTwistWorld]

I wish would stop acting as if character development is just characters like zuko, vegeta, and Sasuke. I’ll say this for everyone saying “finally someone said it”, CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT IS NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE TO POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE CHANGE ARCS. Character development is exactly that, to develop a character. Developing them in a interesting way that seems reasonable and realistic to the viewer. Saying character development is overrated is like saying all character stories are overrated. When a character has poor character development it’s bc you don’t feel like the character is real in any sense. Think of Superman from the 30s, he was perfect. No one can’t remotely challenge him in any way, he had no personal or psychological issues, nor ever encounter something he couldn’t do. This form of storytelling was fine, but eventually grew stale bc ppl can’t continuously be inspired by someone who doesn’t deal with conflict. That’s why his popularity started the fade and we got characters like Batman, someone who represents character development. Someone who can experience the same experiences as us. Naruto is a flat character arc, he doesn’t over go this great change in beliefs. He thinks there should be peace in the world and fight so there can be peace in the world. What makes him a well developed character is that he faces hurdles. Challenges that are psychological and physical. He goes through things, such as depression and anxiety just like the rest of us. I really wish ppl would stop associating a developed character with positive and negative change arcs and character progression.

[@dDoodle788]

Did you actually watch the video before commenting?

[@AndreTwistWorld]

White Player yeah. Looking past your passive aggressive question, the usage of “character development” was interchangeable used for character’s with a change arc. Which isn’t what character development is limited to. You can have a character like spike, who over goes no change in his character, but he’s still a well developed character.

[@itsjustvin7630]

@@AndreTwistWorld so if there is a story with a character with no development yet is still highly praised, what then

[@gottesurteil3201]

Yeah this semantics game is really annoying. A good character is a good character, period.

[@AndreTwistWorld]

Vin Sama then they’re not interesting. A good character is well fleshed out, which means they are WELL DEVELOPED.

[@ino579]

Wow, only took a minute for me to realize Craft is full of it. There's such thing as character development where the character succeeds by sticking to their preconceptions common to works for older demographics. This includes Hoshin Engi, Made in Abyss, and Vinland Saga. And there are characters that are fleshed out in their sleep like how in Odin Sphere and entire war is fought over Gwendylin and she wakes up convinced that she'll be in love with the first person he sees. To put up an entire 20 minute video essay ignoring that entire branch of storytelling is downright arrogant.

[@jeice13]

How is it character development if they end the same as they began? What was the development?

[@ino579]

Development and character growth arent synonymous. The consistency of moment to moment decision making when put in different circumstances is what defines a character and makes them compelling. Kamina never running away or Ichigo Kurosaki always protecting others no matter what are great examples of this.

[@jeice13]

@@ino579 i dont see those examples as "development". Id probably call that resilience or something along those lines as the significant part is the resisting of the pressure of the world

[@ino579]

@@jeice13 if the character makes decisions requiring more of a given characteristic than what they made previously, even if they're effectively making the same decision, its development. For example, a character who "will never hold a gun" is offered a raise to go to a hunting party. Do they go to the party or not? If they do, do they abandon their ideal, or make a conditional "I'll go to the party, but I wont touch a gun?" And what if the character is offered a bonus to shoot birds with the president? Will he accept? If he doesnt, would he do it if say, he got a call saying his daughter was in an accident and needed money for surgery? What decision does he make then? And so on an so forth. Torturing the characters into making tough decisions, even if they're effectively the same ones, is just as compelling as characters who adapt throughout the story.

[@jeice13]

@@ino579 that only holds if they previously had less of that trait than the recent decision demonstrates. In the examples about a businessman you used him resisting going to a gun party wouldnt be a change while him attending it might be but that is a failure to resist the world so its not really acounter example. If he takes the raise joining in to shoot birds that is also not holding to the prior traits and thus not a counter example whereas if he resists thats not development, or at least not a development from "wont touch guns", it could demonstrate some other trait like not caring much about money buteven then thats still arguably just a pre existing trait comingto the surface (in the world of the story, that trait may still be new to the audience) unless he had previously been greedy

[@sparrow248]

ok , people dont just say that some of the most important things about a story is its characters just so that they sound smart or inteligent , they say it because they know that the driving force for every story is its characters , so they must grow , depending on how they shape the story , or how the story shapes them , character develpoment is important because , events that happen in the story must develope characters , otherwise the charcacters are boring , so character development is not 'overrated' but simply a must have to every good story

[@murozaki3547]

Watch the actual video before you comment.

[@sparrow248]

@@murozaki3547 I guess you are right , I did make the comment based on the title , but the title led me to belive that the video was about ... well character development beeing OVERRATED , and I just don't care much about the video to watch it , plus it is pretty long

[@WatTheWut]

Razvan Dolha then DONT fucking comment lol

[@cruelcumber5317]

Calling it a must have to every good story is overrating it though. Giving character development such a monumentally huge title is giving it a level of importance that simply isn't fair to large number of works able to create a compelling narrative without a character experiencing any sort of significant change.

[@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093]

The video is about how their are many types of character arcs. some people will judge a story solely based on if the protagonist significantly changes but ignore static character arcs that can make just as good stories

[@learn2draw716]

Friendship is a childish theme.

[@davos4667]

Idk man, this video kind of reaffirmed that characters actually developing over the course of a story is the best case. Not saying that there can’t be a character who doesn’t need development, but yeah overall it’s better to have it.

[@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093]

What did you just not like examples of static arcs

[@silverbro13]

Character development isn't overrated, but it can make the difference between an otherwise one-note character with no depth, and a one-note character who develops nothing mroe than a second note that allows the audience and viewer to at least find them interesting(think of someone like Gon).

[@kaininjathundermmandopoke5167]

YES, it is overrated IMAO.