Cheap vs. Expensive SMB - Is cheap dive gear worth buying?

#divegue #gueheroes #DoktorBEN #divegear
Is cheap dive gear always inferior to pricy dive gear from premium brands? In this episode of the series I bought a cheap, 18$ (including tax, customs and so on it was around 30$) SMB from China and compared it to the 100$ model from Halcyon. Can you save some money on dive gear by getting cheap dive gear from China or is it advisable to stick to the expensive dive gear from premium brands?
This is the Halcyon SMB I use and recommend for everyone who wants the highest quality:
doktorben.benjaminott.de/SMB
00:00 Start
02:20 Types of SMBs
04:57 Seams
05:56 Bottom Attachment
06:37 Why the Chinese SMB is not a closed one
07:08 Dump Valve and Mouth Piece
08:31 Conclusion

[@DoktorBEN]

What about you? Would you get the premium SMB or the cheap one?

[@jdcbranco]

Neither the super expensive nor the super cheap that you mentioned in your video. There are plenty of options in the market in between these 2 price ranges that I'm totally happy to go with.

[@unclegeorgescuba]

I bought mine from AliExpress and I'm happy with it :)

[@DoktorBEN]

@@jdcbranco Yeah totally! So which one do you use?

[@DoktorBEN]

@@unclegeorgescuba To be honest...I assume every brand get's them from China ;). Maybe I buy some from AliExpress and print my logo on them :) :)

[@jdcbranco]

@@DoktorBEN I use the Apeks one, 1.4m tall, closed and orally inflated.

[@hrhansendotdk]

I have the Chinese version of the small 1 meter closed SMB. The tab is reinforced and cross stitched just like the Halcyon. In addition, the Chinese version has a reflective band around the top that the Halcyon does not. That's clearly an improvement, esp. here in Denmark, where any after work dive is a night dive more or less half of the year. My guess to where the SMB will eventually wear out and fail is on the non-stitched side where the material is folded without any reinforcement on the edge. Maybe the Halcyon is made from more durable material that will last longer along that folded edge?

[@DoktorBEN]

The 1.8m Halcyon SMB has the reflective tape, too. Well maybe. It's hard to test the material itself. But it's a good point that the folded side might be a weal spot due to the folding, as well. I'll watch this. Maybe I'll have to make a video "Why I finally dumped my Halcyon SMB" in the future :D

[@qyrghyz]

I used to use the Halcyon one and it got a small hole eventually on the folded side as you predicted. Now if I need a new one, I look for one with seams on all four sides.

[@DoktorBEN]

Really? I had the impression the seams are weak spots. Good to know. Couldn’t you repair it with a bicycle repair kit for instance?

[@qyrghyz]

@@DoktorBEN Possibly, it didn't cross my mind at the time. (I don't own a bicycle.)

[@EEDivers]

Hey @@qyrghyz I bet that Halcyon will cover this under warranty.

[@Ni2_Technical_Diving]

Current, i dive the cheap-one from Polaris. The Color rubbed off a lot at the beginning, so I spent hours cleaning it in the shower to protect the water. The bright color has worn off a bit. My buddy uses the Halcyon's SMB and is super happy. The workmanship is much better, it does not stain and is easy to see in pink in all lighting situations. Although he is smiled at for the pink color, my next SMB will also be from Halcyon! p.s. nice and informative video! Thanks Ben!

[@DoktorBEN]

My next is pink, too 😄.

[@jangrewe]

Having only 1 seam is actually worse. As the SMB spends most of its time rolled up somewhere and getting bumped around, having a sturdy seam protects the fabric, as it's also already under stress because it's folded over. You're calling the seam the weak spot, but i'm pretty sure it's actually the opposite. And in the end, EVERYTHING is manufactured in China anyways, including the Halcyon one. It just depends on how much you're willing to pay for the little brand badge on there.

[@DoktorBEN]

I don’t know for sure, where halcyon makes the SMB‘s but I guess you’re right

[@DannyB-cs9vx]

Many expensive brands are made in China. Then a huge markup added. With most items there are diminishing returns. A little improvement will cost you more. A little more improvement will cost much much more. I try to aim for middle of the spectrum where the most value is. I don't want a $150 regulator, but I don't need a $1400 one either as an example. Possibly we should look at cost per use. A $100 item used only once costs $100 per use. A $1,000 item item used 100 times costs $10 per use. So factor in how often you will use something.

[@DoktorBEN]

Sure, but it’s really difficult to estimate how often you gonna use a piece of equipment. And beyond quantity of use, there is a quality component - am I annoyed of a thing every time I use it? Will it let me down when most needed? These questions are hard to answer.

[@clarkeysam]

Hi Ben, Do you find 1m DSMB is tall enough? I understand we don't go diving in 20m swells but given some of the DSMB will be under the water, and a bit of a choppy surface I'm a little concerned about being seen, which has always put me off buying a 1m DSMB.

[@DoktorBEN]

For most freshwater diving, 1m is fine. For the sea, maybe better to get a larger one.

[@bloodymarvelous4790]

I disagree with you on one seam being better than two. With one seam the other side is folded when stored, and it wears out easier. Also, not a fan of a metal inflator which can be used with the LPI hose. It's better to inflate your dSMB manually. That way it doesn't affect your buoyancy. I like the inflator mouthpiece on the Apeks dSMB's. It's rubber, so even in cold water it's comfortable to use (unlike metal ones). For length 1 meter is fine if there aren't any waves. Moderate waves, like a calm sea or lake, I'd say 1.4 meters is better. High seas it can't be tall enough, but 1.8 meters is about the minimum. Radar reflective tape is a good feature to have, as well as a means to attach a message or a strobe to your dSMB. I personally have the Apeks 1.4m orange dSMB. It's compact, closed, with the rubber mouthpiece, radar reflective tape, and attachment point to the top of the dSMB. For my kind of diving, 1.4 meters is enough.

[@JamesThomas-hd4me]

You discount the fact you can buy 4 of the Chinese one to just 1 of the Halcyon. In a few years when the Chinese one is faded and needs to be replaced, no problem. The Halcyon will still be working but will be sun-faded and less visible. The bigger SMB is more easily seen especially with the reflective tape at the top. The purpose of an SMB is to be seen so to me the Chinese one wins this competition.

[@DoktorBEN]

Well…yeah I think that’s correct. An SMB is no rocket science and I have to check the long term testing but I guess the Chinese one will not only last a quarter of the time the Halcyon one lasts.

[@Caesar.Aquanaut]

I guess only both GUE divers and Halcyon brand loyalies who are having trouble using "cheaper" SMB and having non-existent problems which the rest of the diver in the world has never faced? With that amount of cost many of us could possibly buy enough SMB for more than a diver's lifetime!

[@DoktorBEN]

Well...that's essentially the question of the video...For the price of one Halcyon SMB you could buy 4 "cheap" ones. However, when the SMB attachment breaks on a offshore dive for instance, where you need it badly, you can't get a new one, no matter how much you're willing to spend. No one said, this can't happen with Halcyon (or any other premium brand...and usually every team member has one SMB) but in the end I had the impression, the Halcyon was a bit more durable. However, if you stick to the cheap or expensive one, depends vitally on the type of diving you do and how badly you're dependend on the SMB.

[@Caesar.Aquanaut]

DoktorBEN I may not have been diving long enough to see any failed DSMB, BUT I’m curious, how many of you divers out there has ever had or heard anyone had a failed DSMB and critically enough to threaten your life? Ok, say if your main DSMB failed, most Tec divers carries two. Even if the unlucky diver who had a failed/broken DSMB is not a Tec diver who would carry two DSMBs, he/she could still rely to use his/her buddy’s one to shoot up onto the surface to communicate with the crew/boat(s) on the surface. There’s nothing wrong to give your hard earned money to whom you love to support, I get that. But calling other brand or cheaper brand inferiority simply just to elevate your delusional superiority of your H brand is so uncool. Yes, the problems which you have highlighted does exist (especially on the issues you have highlighted with the open ended type DSMB, and the regulator inflation method with the semi-closed DSMB), but those issues can be mitigated with proper training, not by simply putting extra dollar in. FYI, I usually carries both DSMB in my cargo pockets, 1 red 90cm closed DSMB for my main (brand name Akuana, China made, cheap), 1 yellow 180cm semi-closed DSMB for emergency or as a backup for my main (no brand, China made, cheap), and I have never had any issue using and deploying either one of them when necessary during my dive. Never seen and heard any diver having trouble with their cheap, Chinese made, non Halcyon branded DSMB from within my diving community.

[@DoktorBEN]

First, I've to mention that's not "my" H brand. I've got no connection to Halcyon or any other dive manufacturer. My reviews here are my honest opinion on the things I test. I'm not calling the chinese SMB be "cheap" to point out the inferiority - it's just a fact that this on is, in comparison to the Halcyon SMB, the cheap one. I thought I pointed out well that the chinese SMB is in fact worth its money and that it is a quality product and that I was surprised, how well it was made in the end. In my opinion, the Halcyon SMB is slightly better made in some minor aspects. If someone is willing to spend 4 times the money - ok. If not, ok either. And sure, there are alternatives in between! You could go for a OMS, Tecline or any other brand and I guess you'll get a great SMB for around 60$. I saw SMB's getting lost when I was in charge of a dive boat, creating some confusion. In the end, nobody was hurt, but it can happen. You're right that you can always rely on the SMBs of your team members and it's extremely unlikely to fail 3 SMBs during a dive. I always advocate for the training-over-equipment-philosophy. The most expensive SMB won't make you a good diver. For me personally, I'll stick to the to my Halcyon SMB, because the mentioned features make it more comfortable to use. However, if I only had the chinese SMB, I could dive with it alike.

[@Caesar.Aquanaut]

I’ve just rewatched your video for the second time, and OMG... you’re right 😅 Anyway, lesson learnt, never watch and leave comment on KZbin when I’m less sober late at night. Yes, one could spend however they like on whatever brand they prefer and spending power. I would advise to spend/buy for the best quality that one could comfortably afford, do more research, and never simply buy because of branding. Same like you, I strongly believe that good education and training on how to use our equipments are far important than spending blindly for premium. Premium equipment is not the safety net, good skills are. So, it’s better to spend premium on good instructor, instead. Lastly, my apologies for leaving my comments before getting your message cleared. You’ve just earned my sub. So, please keep your video coming 😄

[@DoktorBEN]

Caesar Wong Thanks! Good to know we‘re on the same page here. Well said...spend money on an instructor instead of equipment ;) Yeah already working on the next vids! Thanks for the sub. It is appreciated.

[@omahgili4473]

I use Chinese 180cm smb already 5years more than 500 dives and still work good. And all weak point you say its not that weak for 500 dives. I live in Indonesia and use that smb for guiding in Komodo, raja ampat, banda sea etc so its not calm water as well. The semi close makes deploy smb way faster and if you can do it properly it maybe the safest way too. I use my inflator to fill my smb. So air from my wing I deflate to my smb so my buoyancy is still the same. I use ccr so blowing smb is not easy. I deploy smb from 80m also with the semi close too. If I see my smb start to break I will change it. But 5 years for $25 is super strong product... if halcyon can last 5 years its good because its expensive $140....

[@DoktorBEN]

Quite frankly, the Halcyon ones (at least mine) last much longer. But does lost as much longer as they cost more? I’m happy with the Chinese SMB‘s, too!

[@jorisvandorpe]

The metal mouthpiece is sooo much better. If I could buy decent chinese smb's with good mouthpieces I would, but the plastic push valves are just inferior..

[@DoktorBEN]

You can replace them. However, it’s hard to buy the metal ones.

[@elmo319]

It’s better just to remove it altogether, I don’t know anyone that uses LP inflator or dry suit hose to inflate dSMB

[@DoktorBEN]

If they are very large or the water is extremely cold, then yes maybe

[@DoktorBEN]

If they are very large or the water is extremely cold, then yes maybe.

[@ltrenum]

I like the Halcyon very well. Sub gravity makes a good one too.

[@DoktorBEN]

I don’t know the sub gravity. Still guess it’s not too hard to make a SMB 😄

[@ltrenum]

@@DoktorBEN it’s pretty similar to the Halcyon and around half the cost, good stuff.

[@DoktorBEN]

Yeah you can save some money by going with Halcyon 😄 But sometimes their stuff is just better!

[@KB-gd6fc]

Customer service is something too many people fail to consider when deciding on brand. Halcyon is known for top notch service. Goodluck getting that from some random Chinese company.

[@DoktorBEN]

Absolutely true! For a SMB that might not be relevant. But I have my experience with dive lights from different brands and that’s something to consider at least for the really expensive stuff. I can try to get support from them and tell you, what happened 😄

[@clarkeysam]

I think customer service is a fair point when one item is at a slight premium, like 10-30%, but when it's 4 times more expensive it is irrelevant, in my opinion. If you have a cheap one you can replace it 4 times before you've spent the same as the Halcyon one, and that doesn't take into account postage costs etc, or that you'll then have weeks without your DSMB.

[@DoktorBEN]

@@clarkeysam I bet Halcyon would just exchange the SMB in that case. However, there is a sweet spot of the price. Above that it makes no sense to buy the premium product, sure.

[@Bananafeller]

@@DoktorBEN Well, Sofirn is sending me a new SD01 that flooded on me ....

[@DoktorBEN]

At least, the customer service seems to work well…

[@jhrickey]

"I don't know what to do with my hands"

[@DoktorBEN]

Italian Style 🤌🏻

[@billy2141]

Halcyon are over priced for premium gear though. Xdeeps 140cm closed smb is £46 whilest Halcyons 4.5' closed smb is £140, an Xdeep aren't a cheap Chinese company.

[@talbotmcinnis]

The Chinese one is a hybrid, so two tubes. One side is open, the other is closed. Superior design imo.

[@damiensiviero]

What bs, add for GUE/Halcyon. Those halcyon SMBs with the single seam wear through from abrasive given that end has no reinforcement.

[@DoktorBEN]

It’s not an ad. To be honest, one of my halcyon smbs wore out on the edge. But only after 15+ years…so it’s manageable

[@moebius117]

This Halcyon SMB is so small, like children's toy.

[@DoktorBEN]

Yeah it’s not good for the open sea

[@jonnieinbangkok]

Always pimping for Halcyon 😂😂😂 Any sizeable waves and your 1m "premium" Halcyon SMB won't even be seen on the surface...and where do you think these "premium" SCBs are made? I've bought several SMBs online from generic Chinese manufacturers and the quality is as good or better than the name brands sold for 3-4x more in stores.

[@DoktorBEN]

Well…I don’t see myself pimping for Halcyon. The opposite is often true

[@youtubehandle_kate]

This guy makes me uncomfortable... 🙄

[@DoktorBEN]

Why? 🤣

[@scubacro5758]

Wtf😂

[@edmondtan142]

Not helpful. bullshit comparison. DOnt even understand

[@DoktorBEN]

Why?