Cheating When Oil Painting - what is allowed and what is not - Oil Painting Advice

In this video I discuss what is considered "cheating" when oil painting.
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[@foghollow]

One of the reasons I subscribe and watch your videos is because you have integrity. It shows in all your videos.

[@reefprayerresin]

Absolutely! 🎯

[@MartinDellaVecchia]

completely agree

[@andreachapman7331]

I used to slave over my huge canvasses squaring up and at times if I got my composition, wrong required extensive reworking, however, I now have a projector and I am liberated. I get my drawing done and can start on what I really want to do Paint

[@allenvoss7977]

I agree projectors are great for those very difficult compositions. I typically don’t need it for landscape work but for Still life it’s very helpful.

[@leam1978]

yeah, when working at scale, it doesn't make sense to avoid using a projector

[@susanmitchell4744]

You can’t really draw then?

[@ronschlorff7089]

@@susanmitchell4744 Yes, since times long gone it has been said that drawing is the "foundation" of all art, even sculpture. I guess today it's too much work (a four-letter word to some!) for art students, who look for short cuts and easy ways out. It is also a pleasure in its own right, just to take a pad and pencil and draw something, anything, just for the fricking hell of it, or for practice to hone your skills. Shame some folks are sooooooo lazy today!!

[@andreachapman7331]

@@susanmitchell4744 what gives you that idea?

[@alfagerup]

Hi Mark. Thank's a LOT for the good honest explanation ! Nice to listen to an honest person. It just makes you a better, and more credible, artist in my ears. Best regards Alf - Denmark.

[@louielouie4187]

I can't say enough about your teaching when I ran into your videos 4 years ago I felt so grateful for the amount of information you shared so I ordered your paints, purchased an easel, made a color checker, and set out to prove you right, my fiance and friends thought I had been painting for years when say seen the results, unfortunately my hips deteriorated And I became unemployed lost my business. I had previously started and just couldn't stand or sit for long, and it demoralized me, and I stopped painting. I'm going in for my second hip replacement and look forward to the new purple paint. You have been a great inspiration, and I hope to have the pleasure to meet you someday Sincerely 🎨 🖌

[@PaulRansonArt]

Hi Mark - I was luck enough to have had excellent teachers who didn't hold back anything. Its a standard I've upheld since I started teaching some 20+ years ago. I've also taught my students to use what ever makes the process enjoyable. Because art should be fun and not such a chore that they get disheartened and give up. Nothings cheating as long as there is a creative element to the work. Thank you for your wonderful videos - Paul 😃😃😎😎

[@TheNortheastAl]

Sharing and honesty are why I always come back to your videos. You are the best teacher on KZbin.

[@marywebb1138]

Not telling everything when you're teaching is like giving someone a recipe and leaving out something important. 😊

[@alariaesculenta8177]

And remember you're paying for the painting lessons.... so you're being cheated.....

[@danieldavisart]

I used to be more of a purist, but using a projector can save so much time and as a watercolorist any way to reduce the number of unwanted lines is great. It is important to do some study sketches prior to using a projected image, otherwise you can lose track of what you're tracing. I think it is best to use photos taken by yourself, that's half the fun for me.

[@jplum7708]

I'm been looking for a projector. There are many and they have mixed reviews. Any recommendations?

[@LadyImperatrix]

@@jplum7708There’s an app called DaVinci Mural Maker that I’ve found very useful.

[@marshallfalconberry5187]

it,s all about your personal views,it,s called creativity!!! leave people alone n let them create.You are so ful of yourself that you,ve lost the point.Are you not using the site to manipulate viewers to increase your personal gain? Don't you get it?You,re being ridiculous!!!

[@patindaytona]

@@jplum7708When i paint something like a portrait or some kind of man made structure I always trace. I could never get myself to not feel like I'm a cheater though. But then, sure I would eventually....get it to be fairly right using a grid or some proportional dividers, but why? Even when I trace, I always end up doing so much nudging because something is off. Usually many hours of that. So, the frustration gets to become a real pain. Does that justify the tracing?

[@haywardgaude8589]

This is an important message for artists. This is a deep truth of art - use whatever it takes to create your art. Thanks - great video!

[@peterjones4385]

This is why you are endeared to us mere mortals, I feel your generosity.

[@christinegalysh7433]

I am a beginning artist, and have you to thank for helping me understand color mixing. Thank you so much. You are an amazing teacher and artist! All the best.

[@MindfulAttraction2.0]

I definitely recommend his course. went to Austin, learn straight from home and his method works

[@lindaroose3820]

Thank you so much, I am mostly self taught and in my 70's. I prefer oil but at my age I don't get to travel etc so using pictures is a must for me. If I know photographer I will give them credit saying they inspired me if not that that I was inspired by a photo I found. You just opened a whole new world for me.😊

[@VickiWells-lg5ub]

I so appreciate your transparency. You are my go to guy for all my painting needs as well as who I send my students to for further clarifications on techniques. Thank you so very much for your years of wonderful products and instruction.

[@RogerGuisinger]

Bob Ross used to say when you buy your first tube of paint it comes with an artistic license to do whatever you want with it.

[@ronschlorff7089]

good advice, ...except maybe eating the cadmiums!! LOL ;D

[@thankyou4416]

But, He was original. Not like this he’s explaining like... And that’s why you can Always find similar or exactly alike paintings 🖼.. because they learn from the same source... not your own original creative source. Regardless perfection. I believe they look perfect like a picture 📸✨with paint on it.. yes. Like a print. Similar... anyway. Nothing like being natural born artist 🎨🧑🏻‍🎨👨🏻‍🎨... The rest are free🕊

[@MrEdzeeray]

@@thankyou4416 there’s barely any creativity in art anyway. What people think it’s creative it’s merely imitation of nature. So AI, photo, live they are all imitation of nature. What I meant if you do still live or portrait you are recreating something that was created. If you do Impressionism or abstract, you are recreating a feeling that exists. If you are doing illustrative work, you are most probably recreating and idea that a group of people have and that is why they relate to it. I think in general people should stop using the word “creative” a lot. It should be more like “recreative in a creative manner”

[@miguelmunoz9989]

I love your honesty in this video. The way you explain everything in your videos, with serenity and clarity, have motivated me to paint again. My problem is that I need to be in the right mood to paint, in order enjoy and be happy with the proccess. I have always been autodidact and reluctant to learn from others. A couple of years ago I felt I was blocked and insecure, and then I found some of your videos and by listening to your speech, full of clarity, the ideas began making sense. For me it is crucial to have a number of basic but powerful ideas to reactivate myself and recover the right inspiring mood. Therefore, every time I feel blocked I come back to your videos to recover my motivation. Many many thanks. I appreciate enormously all your advices. Best regards from Holland and Spain

[@ronschlorff7089]

yes, I find these art vids inspiring, also the ones of several masters works; they get the juices flowing for someone who wants to paint daily. So, get up, get coffee, or your drugs of choice, if you take them, watch a vid and get ready for the day of painting, or for an hour or so, in the studio or outside, if that is your thing. There are now many vids online, good, bad, and ugly ones, (so, play the music of that great western movie). And some are even funny, like the guy or gal who vids themself painting for the very first time, "en plein air" as they always are quick to note. At least they are out there "squeezing some tubes", I guess!! LOL ;D

[@philipbrazeau9029]

I appreciate your candour and honesty. I’ve struggled with this for a long time. As if it’s somehow immoral to use tools to assist in achieving a given outcome. Can you imagine an architect accused of cheating because he used a calculator? Thanks for this. I think you framed it perfectly.

[@Freeyourself206]

I cant tell you how much I appreciate your transparency!!!! Thank you. We need more of this in the art world.

[@zachampsonartist]

I love these types of discussions, so often its new or dogmatic artists that have that "cheater" mentality, problem is that if you take it all the way, its cheating if you don't go dig the minerals out of the ground and mix them to make your own oil paints.

[@GarrisonFall]

I was thinking the exact thing!

[@GarrisonFall]

@Pax.Alotin LOL. Who would have thought that Warhol was classically trained?

[@armandogavilan1815]

@Pax.Alotin the difference say, for example, that in Rubens atelier he was the most skilled one, the master who used students to have a bigger output but he was able to paint everything by itself if he wanted, but he was a teacher too, and that was the way to learn for the students, it was very common in that time, everyone who finished tuition came out as a master painter (unlike warhol). Everyone there had skill and talent for so many painting related things, like mixing pigments, stretching canvas, making brushes, making mediums, varnishing, drawing, painting application and so on, very very very different than what warhol and his crew did, warhol exploited and took advantage of people, that´s well documented.

[@armandogavilan1815]

@Pax.Alotin yeah, in the old master times it was normal, in Rubens case again, most of his big works were done by him and his students, the individual authorship, while it was valued wasn´t considered "cheating" or anything like that, ateliers were busy places like a bakery or so, or like a movie where a lot of people are involved and they are mentioned in the credits, in the end is about being honest about what you do I guess.

[@armandogavilan1815]

@Pax.Alotin Word!

[@scootergti]

Thanks very much, I'm glad to see the Geneva supply store back with some stock of colors in a tube. The chemicals in the other paints can trigger a migraine in my case. Your products are absolutely outstanding!! I'll be watching for the new colors to come out soon. I have learned so much from you and other artist on youtube. Keep the videos coming!

[@dieter4964]

In my opinion honesty is the base of all good teaching. I think you are the best and most honest teacher I ever met. I admire your videos and your generosity to share your secrets. What a luck that I found your channel. ❤❤❤

[@NanciFranceVaz_artist]

Hey Mark, 💯% agree! I was a 3d animator video etc. when mid journey came out, I picked it up immediately reminded me of my days in 3-D. I do use AI as a reference and you’re absolutely right you can control the image on your own especially using style references and Carole character references. I really love your transparency. There’s such a pullback in the purist art community about this. I used to belong to OPA and I recently dropped my membership because they had rules in there about even using Photoshop and composing which I do all the time, and yes I’ve painted from life but I find it absolutely boring to paint another person staring into space. I love the immediacy that photography gives and I love different ideas that come about using the comp I create in the journey. You are a kickback painter by the way, I’m a huge fan for many years.

[@piorism]

Please look up how these algorithms actually work and where they get their sources from. Artists who have been working with both traditional *and* digital media for decades are not furious about MJ and other AI generators because they are fast, or because they produce instant eyecandy - they're mad at these things because they are literally committing IP and identity theft at a scale never seen before. The only reason why it is not illegal is because the law hasn't caught up yet. For reference, you'll find write ups by the EGAIR (European Guild for AI Regulation), and by the Concept Art Association.

[@tnxmxlc9878]

I share the opinion presented here but only about tools . But for AI it's completely different. By using a tool you stay an artist because you created something and the tool helped you. By using AI you become the tool helping AI to "create something".

[@joecombs7468]

There are some good art channels on KZbin. But No one I have found is as concise and succinct as you are. Your communication skills are outstanding. The ideas and techniques you discuss are easy to understand & follow and make sense. Thank you.

[@woodsstuffmx]

It is so rare to find someone with value like honesty and transparency and not choose when it use it. I appreciate all the videos and informations that i had the privilege to see. Still have a lot to learn, I expect to begin my painting journey in September. Got the light install now I will build all I need from the videos that you have share. Thank you Sir.

[@AmyLarsen-w3v]

Mark you have so much courage. Your transparency has been so refreshing. Keep up the great work!! So thankful for you!!!

[@jegr3398]

There's no such thing as cheating, anybody can paint whatever they want however they want.

[@TTundragrizzly]

The only issue is perhaps when someone false advertises a piece of art that isn’t necessarily produced the way they advertised, but they sell it anyway

[@paulwoodford1984]

It’s about the end product in the end. @@TTundragrizzly

[@tiagodagostini]

Cheating exist when you say was made in one form, but was made in other. Cheating or not is about honesty.

[@tiagodagostini]

@Pax.Alotin I advise you to read what I wrote and re read what you post to see how nonsense your post is.

[@GarrisonFall]

@Pax.Alotin Years ago, there was a series on British TV about an artist who was jailed for selling paintings he'd done, as newly discovered 'originals' of famous artists. The man was a very talented artist and was meticulous in his research and use of materials and techniques of the artists he imitated. He was jailed for fraud, ie 'cheating', by misrepresenting the product he was selling. He later made money from his talent by presenting his work as faithful representations of technique and style, signed in his own name. Ie. not cheating.

[@Shirlee-d7d]

I bought a small easel from you, and shortly after that, I began to get all kinds of offers for other kinds of easels, and also began to receive all kinds of channels on how either an artist, or a manufacture, had come up with a perfect solution for using an easel and the method that produces the optimum ability for variations in positions in the process. I got the distinct impression that they think they had come up with something better. You are a genius, presenting us with something so simple that we ourselves could build it with the right tools, and a little ambition. Kudos, Mark! Jealousy is rampant--just sayin'!

[@williammowbray6305]

Thank you Mark, enjoy all your videos, glad your paints are still available.

[@Shirlee-d7d]

And, by the way, I have finished more paintings since I bought your easel,in a short period of time, than ever before. I feel more comfortable painting because it is more approachable and easier to operate for any position I need to use. Thank you!

[@jttigera2]

I really appreciate your honesty and candor. You're a master painter and you've given me much food for thought

[@JudyJarrettHoffman]

Thank you for sharing your art & honesty

[@sassy6292]

When I see a beautiful image I don’t care how it came to be. Your ai imaginings are absolutely amazing. I love them and I would pay money for them. My brother has been creating with ai and those compositions are lovely and a joy to behold as well. Thank you for this candid message. It puts things in perspective actually.

[@BarBaraWhorleyCrawfordESS]

Love love love Feneva paint. So easy to use. Plus the brush cleaner is the bomn. Thank you

[@gitbuh12345qwerty]

so much respect for you. I started painting watching your channel about three years ago and have drifted into concept art and have become completely obsessed with the processes of digital 3D and 2D media. Naturally the AI debate is insanely heated in that world, and AI generated imagery has a multitude of uses as a concept artist: reference, iteration on an idea, creating texture maps for 3D, generating brushes, source material for photobashing, even collaborating with AI by using the image prompts in midjourney. I've used it to create color palettes in photoshop, taking an image and creating a swatch for color picking. It is amazing to see this video because your draw mix paint series was formative for me as an artist. I still have umber still life paintings I did on small panels: a wine bottle, a pear, and a kabuki mask. It is no surprise to find out you have the wisdom to understand the true nature of a tool and the true nature of cheating. THANK YOU.

[@coffeewithmia7498]

Thank you for being honest. The greatest fulfillment in life is being able to share the truth of what we know.

[@beatlemaniac64]

Mark, I will say that your videos have transformed my artistic ability and my confidence level from, I don’t know if I can do that, to, I can paint anything. And I mean anything. You have opened up a whole new world for me. Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge I can never repay you.

[@DDartlover8888]

I’ve always appreciated your sharing your knowledge, and your honest approach

[@doug764]

Mark, you have given awesome help to me as I move through the painting process. I started late in life but I have constantly found enjoyment and growth, thanks in large part because of your thoughtful guidance.

[@andreachapman7331]

Thank you so much. This information was so helpful and liberating.

[@SockMonkeyofcourse]

Thank you Mark. Great advice for certain. I'll take it with me as I move forward down this path!

[@kentjensen4504]

You’re a wonderful painter and a wonderful teacher, and it has always been obvious you share techniques and insight selflessly.

[@deroux]

I paint from my mind. For me I find that the purest form of art making.

[@ronschlorff7089]

Yes, most paintings do come from the mind, first, then the hand becomes involved, and later it seems the hand just "knows" what to do without "orders" from the mind, especially for color mixing, at least for me. It's kind of "freaky" actually, after you have become so used to painting for decades. Like that old horror movie about the cut off hand that could still play the piano. Anyone see that one; from 50's I think, in black and white of course, the best media for horror!! LOL :D

[@ItsRyanStudios]

Love the honesty, especially because I know there are a lot of critics out there. I've personally been using AI to generate painting references. My paintings often involve a number of references, and many of my references are further manually altered in photoshop, etc. On top of that, being a software engineer, I've been fine tuning my own image generation models. It all becomes part of the effort and process. My goal is to ENJOY the process and the product. This is the purpose of art for me. Could not care less about what other people think, especially when most critics likely have not created much art themselves.

[@elmerjimenez4851]

Thanks, Mark for your honesty and transparency. I always appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge and give generous advice without expecting a financial return (aside from your classes). Your comments about AI are very refreshing and appreciated. I am also put off by purist artists who frown upon using any kind of tool (like a projector, tracing box, or even a photograph) to create art. I think it is well documented that some of the old masters used tools to their advantage (like a camera lucida or measuring tools). When it comes to AI I feel the same way as you do about using images for inspiration because if you can paint from a photograph, how is that fundamentally different from painting from a photo-quality AI-generated image? I also agree that even if AI is able to produce images that are unbelievably beautiful, you can still be in control of the outcome by tailoring the prompts given to the AI. The AI creation then really becomes a product of your imagination and not just a random algorithmic output. I am an amateur painter and a professional graphic designer and I remember that not too long ago (pre-AI) images (art) created on a computer using Photoshop, Painter, 3D programs or other image creation and manipulation programs were not considered true art by purists, but over the last decade or so there has been an explosion of art conceptualized or created for movies (CGI), video games, commercials, etc using exclusively digital tools. I think that AI is simply an extension of those technologies. I do sympathize, however, with those artists who feel that AI is stealing from them and I wish that we as a culture could come up with a way to protect the rights of artists (illustrators, photographers, etc) by maybe creating a royalty system. But any new technology potentially presents a threat to the status quo and just like with previous technologies I think we have to adjust and use it for its benefits instead of just seeing it as a threat. I think that the genie is out of the bottle and you cannot put it back. AI, for better or for worse is here to stay. When it comes to AI I say don't throw away the baby with the bath water. Love your channel!

[@joviandamien]

I appreciate you mark , I had a change of heart about everything you’re absolutely right and thank you for everything

[@paulkrivan1788]

Thank you for your honest opinion. I have often wandered if i am cheating in my own mind when i paint and draw. I have come to the conclusion as you have that your the artist and can do whatever you want. Just don't lie about it if asked. As i like to do real life and have taught myself to draw freehand with proper perspective, i find i just want to get to the painting and it saves heaps of time to use aids if needed. You have made me feel really good about myself so thank you.

[@jessebbedwell]

The main thing is not from where the inspiration comes, it's the skill with which you render the work.

[@foylebutler8952]

The greatest skill is worthless without inspiration and motivation.

[@gauthierceline908]

Mark, again a great teaching video, thank you for generously sharing your passion, your knowledge, your experience and your talent. I have learned a lot from you and i am grateful! Thank you!!

[@elanielan]

You are very much appreciated and inspiration for giving. No one can take from you what you have. And what you have is huge. Thank you

[@michaelg.9216]

I follow Mark many years, he is the ONLY one that can help an amateur to learn drawing and painting methodically. In that way people gain confidence to continue and not give up. Most you tube artists show you some-thing about drawing and painting and not the whole picture. He is honest and most of his knowledge is for free. His methods, if you work hard, can teach you to draw and paint very well. Be well Mark and thank you for everything

[@KostasK62]

the most honest video about art craftsmanship today. thank you!

[@TheJobieadobe]

I really appreciate this video. I painted a picture using a method similar to Vermeer and have felt funny about it but you've made me feel better!

[@j0nnyism]

He wasn’t the only person who used a camera obscura

[@housetalkwithdiana]

You are awesome! Been watching you for years. I’m gonna take an in person class one of these days I live in New Braunfels, Texas.

[@grandpa_eric]

I wouldn’t call using devices “cheating” per se, not authentic regarding personal expression maybe. If you’re an engineer or designer creating for another where exactness is required, you must use artificial means. The beauty of a plein air painting- what I now do, after retiring from the commercial art world- the best thing is transcending my mind outside of my body into another dimension of color, value, and placement, and painting a picture. I found virtue in that. Odd that you have a guilty conscience about it all.

[@paulamcminn2532]

Wow! This is great, I had no idea you can even do this with AI. Thank you so much for being so honest. You have inspired me to learn and grow in my paintings, so excited to try this!

[@123youknowme]

All art students should watch this. Brutal and honest. Much appreciated.

[@sherrierichard2848]

It’s an important conversation. I think an artist should be honest, and have integrity. Thanks for this dialogue. I’m sure there are, and have been many opinions about this subject over the hundreds of years artists have been painting.

[@perrycheng6995]

Thank you for your honesty. I only have to add that this sadly affects even amateur artists - perhaps even more so because the amateur label already has its own set of problems.

[@MrIsaTube]

Salaam! Absolutely, you are a true Artist... You remind me of those great Artist Professional and teachers from the Tyler School of Art in Philadelphia... Thank you... Your Channel is relavent. (Keep that one special secret to yourself) that your "Magic" 🌹

[@annadimezza4174]

Love your integrity! Thank you for such a thoughtful post 😊

[@gregt2]

Thanks a lot, Mark. As a new artist, this was a question which plagued me. For example, as an older artist, I have a shorter runway, and cannot spend a year drawing casts, and then a year drawing from life, before I put brush to canvas. I quickly learned, though, that each painting I make exhibits my own ”conclusions” about technical issues, and my personality in the choice and aesthetic representation of subject matter. If one judges paintings on aesthetics and not technical skill, I don’t see why that is not enough - as long as one is honest about one’s process. I’m not afraid of AI; it’s already a fact.

[@verydrunkcat]

There are artists that spent a decade in an atelier drawing casts etc, only for them to realise that actually, what they really want to paint does not benefit from that one skill at all. Don’t feel bad about being wiser, do whatever you need to do to make the art you want to make now.

[@jtpaar1732]

This was a great vlog, Mark and such an important topic that I think almost every artist has struggled with. I love some of the artwork your AI queries have suggested but I didn't get the name of the platform you used to obtain them...I will listen again and search the web. I have signed up for your newsletter, so thank you for that. As for me personally, I have many ideas floating around in my mind and some great personal pictures to help me out with subject matter. However, I'm lost in how to adjust (to my liking) the lights/darks in my composition and want to utilize AI to (hopefully) provide me with realistic ideas so I can add to the photos that already exist. This sounds like such an exciting and limitless concept for any artist who wants to expand beyond their own imagination. If that's the definition of cheating, I'm all for it! Call me a cheater lol!!

[@SuperShaunieshaun]

Interesting topic. Not many artists will admit to shortcuts and techniques that are often frowned upon because of the element of snobbery that pervades the art world, particularly from other artists. Painting is difficult and frustrating enough without imposing restrictions upon oneself. I think one should employ whatever shortcut or technique that helps get you through the creative process. Thanks for talking about it.

[@verenahopp5472]

Art means creating from ideas. To me, being able to use yet another tool means expanding my abilities of creation.

[@artlady6771]

I agree, someone can be a great painter but struggle with inspiration... and vice versa! I was disgusted when giclee prints came out but saw how there was almost a need for them for artists and buyers.I believe in history master artists would have assistants work on small portions of their work. Not all artist could produce the volume Van Gogh did! I'm no longer a purist, just enjoy creating.

[@desleykakoulidisgallaway3382]

Oh my goodness your work is so beautiful and wonderful ❤thank you for sharing your talent it’s a true master that teaches others 🙏🏻

[@marvinmendelovitch9254]

Thank you so much for your transparency and honesty, it is very much appreciated !

[@ehart2422]

Thank you as always for sharing your wisdom, and your generosity.

[@Poorboyink118]

Thank you to you Mark for all the help and advice. Sincerely.

[@JimLongCO]

Really great video Mark. Thank you!

[@kh884488]

Generally, I do things by sight, but when doing Plein Aire, I tend to use a plexiglass grid with water-soluble markers in order to get the major shapes where they need to be. It can be a big time saver and at my phase in life, time is precious. Any time to do plein aire paining is valuable, so it's a tool to maximize time.

[@purelotusheart]

Loved hearing your perspective on all things AI. For some reason whether it is text, painting or sculpture, so far I can tell which one was done by a human being. Its hard to know why exactly but I think Human created art is discernibly, though subtly imbued with human energy, spirit, touch or imagination. It just feels alive with the human spark.

[@terrierose5917]

You are a wonderful artist Mark, I wish I had your talent

[@claires9100]

Thank you for your candor. You are very generous with this information. Much respect ❤😊

[@LotsOfRobotsINC]

If I'm not painting because I'm worried about what imaginary critics would say, that's cheating myself out of the wonderful experience of putting paint on canvas. For me, it's about the time I spend making art and the way I feel while doing it. I use all sorts of image sources and technologies, and sometimes just my wandering mind. As long as I'm painting, I'm fine. When I was in art school in the 1980s, I had a few students criticize my work very harshly because I wasn't doing the hip style that they were doing, I was painting images of things with stories and shadows, they were doing abstract expressionism and dressed differently. So, there is absolutely no way you will escape criticism from someone out there, block those voice out and do what you like.

[@LadyImperatrix]

🙌❤

[@MsAvatar44]

I think we shouldn’t be too critical about either method. Let purpose do the job and use what’s available. Technology and the world will continue to develop rapidly, artists should rather merge so new ways of doing things can be discovered

[@heartofstars999]

I use A.I. in the exact same way, amazing explanation on how artists can use it.

[@marlborogorila]

First thing I learned in visual arts university: cheating in arts is saying something was created differently from how it was created. The context being that I had a very serious and responsable drawing professor on the first year of university, very different from all the post modern professors that taught stuff like new media and art history. He himself is very contemporary in his work, but also very craft oriented. He taught us to draw from life, two years of very rigid observation drawing, of both still life, ladscape and human figure. He said that, after we graduated his two courses, we could not only draw using absolutely any method we wanted, but that we would (if representing in two dimensions) come across a huge number of methods and devices that would absolutely overhaul our capacity to represent from observation, and that we in fact should use them. The only thing tho, he said it is the only possibility of being fraudulent in making a work of art is saying it is something it isn't.

[@starvictory7079]

I wonder if those AI pictures would be able to create the colour of the sky here in Sweden, the crisp, saturated late spring or early summer greens that I do not find in the UK for example. The sky has a different colour too. The leaves and grass are more muted in the UK. That is why I take my own photographs, then change things as I paint by adding memories of how I saw the scene.

[@triconcert]

Always an eye opener. Thx Mark. I've always admired Vermeer. Perhaps I need a little AI to improve my ideas. I think that's my weakest area as an artist. Appreciate your candor.

[@JayDouglas01]

I am a rank beginner, and I am so glad I found this. Thank you!

[@dalehallmark9174]

I agree with what you have said. I personally think of cheating in art as telling lies or misrepresenting your art is some way. Everything else is on the table to use.

[@robertalexander2478]

One of the things I Love about Art is, it’s subjective, there are no rules! I was told by a great Artist older than all of us, just do the work!!!

[@elementalsound7186]

Super relevant topic, you know...it'd watch you evaluate famous works too. maybe just talking about subject matter and composition

[@carnalizer]

The problem of ai art isn't the output, but that the ai services were built by stealing the creative efforts of millions of artists and photographers, using their art without credit, compensation, or consent. It's the biggest art heist in history. Please consider joining the majority of image workers in speaking up against tech that uses the creative output of others to displace the same people they stole from.

[@AlonzoTheArmless]

Exactly. I love Mark's videos but using AI is the one thing I disagree with Mark wholeheartedly because AI is stealing. It's a tool for lazy, unethical thieves.

[@sensiblecitizen4922]

All art is derived from the art of others. It’s just part of the process. All the greats make no bones about who influenced them and you can clearly see they derived their paintings from the ideas of others. Perfectly ok.

[@Handles-R-Lame]

You dont understand AI then. If you think its seriously stealing others artwork. There is no difference from you looking at all the artwork in the world and forming your own paintings from the references given to you originally. The people that are saying that AI is stealing peoples artwork is completely false. Especially the way its created is completely different than using other people way of creating art. It literally takes a complete scramble of noise and then diffuses the artwork from precious input commands. Thus the artwork is completely original in the specific sense of the word. Thats why people are losing lawsuits against AI producers, it doesn't hold any legal ground for being called "stealing".

[@HardcoreWoodworking]

​@@Handles-R-Lame as someone who has taken graduate level classes on machine learning I agree but I think the point is that AI is using artist's images as training data without their consent. It just kinda sucks to have all these people put a lot of effort into something and then their work is being used as data points without their consent. But of course the argument is that if you post something on the Internet, you should expect that people will copy it. But I will agree that throughout human history we've seen and heard things and then went back to our little dens and tried to recreate them, that's why there are art movements and art circles.

[@carnalizer]

@@Handles-R-Lame I understand fine, thank you. But we differ in opinion. It's a slightly new take on theft, and the courts are yet too catch up. Unfortunately, they tend to look to existing laws and precedents even for new kinds of shenanigans. Up until now it's been sufficient to judge copyright on surface likeness, as long as everything was man made. I certainly hope that courts eventually decide that the core purpose of copyright is the right to control the profits of one's labor, and not about surface level likeness, nor the exact procedure of extracting value from other people goods. That was my original point, it's not about how the output looks, it's about using people data for profit against their wishes. Something for example the EU decided strongly against just a few years back with the GDPR laws. Frankly I don't understand why they don't see both browsing habits and personal photos as personal data. We'll see where things go, but it's not as simple as you make it out to be, nor am I. I'd be fine with the tech if the training data were opt-in.

[@kristiLB93]

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on this topic. I have relied on an art projector all my life to size and help with proportions and likeness. I have always been embarrassed about it though and would hide it from people. I am not incapable of getting a likeness in portrait work, but it is a painstaking process for me because I didn't start out learning that way. I'm trying to learn the sight size method and not rely on a projector any longer. Thank you for talking about this subject from a balanced perspective. I learn so much from your channel. You're my online art teacher you know!!

[@artlady6771]

I appreciate your transparency in teaching/instructing. I use AI for references to help with composition. Isn't there some rule if copy a photograph or image it needs to be altered by a percentage ref. Copyright laws? If it's a different medium photo vs oil paint does that even apply?

[@z1522]

The only actual "cheating" involves blatantly ripping off another artist's images, copying without attribution. Techniques are worth noting in regard to preservation, but given Pollock and others in the mid-twentieth century used cheap house paints, dubious other materials, the problems created for future conservators are real, but moot given the astronomical values attached. But the end result for painters is the only final measure that matters; how you arrived is the artist's own business. Misrepresentation, or misdirection, leads down paths of deception apart from finished output, though, and opens questions of integrity and such. As to sharing methods, telling it all will still never provide a mediocre painter a means to rise to the level of the teacher. Yet, as a former teacher, I always felt it should be my goal to mentor others so they might surpass me, never fearing my reputation was in jeopardy from competition. It may be apocryphal, but my favorite Picasso quote was "When art critics get together they talk about Form and Structure and Meaning. When artists get together they talk about where you can buy cheap turpentine." The Zen archer's eye is on the target, not the bow or arrow. If artists with physical afflictions can still put paint down on canvas, materials and techniques are only steps towards the end, and waxing rhapsodic over how an artist supposedly worked is what a lay person does, instead of appreciating the result.

[@joymcdaniel6882]

I am a beginner and have painted with oils and acrylics. I have completed several paintings now. I am so grateful that I found you on KZbin and I wished I lived nearby where I can get lessons. You discuss art totally, and you do not discuss other non related topics. Plus you have a very distinct and understandable voice, not like these other KZbin artists that talk too fast and while they’re painting they’re not describing what they’re doing because they are chatting about other topics.

[@rolandmousaa3110]

GREAT seeing your video on a Sunday sunny morning on the Res.. Glad your teaching us about your knowledge! So true.. paintings stand on their own.. NO robot can do that! You deicide the subject! You decide the light! You can protest against evil politicians and paint them as they really are! NO robot can do that! I have presented some of my oil paintings at the Met, 50 years ago and know! Thanks.. I will sign up on your newsletter.

[@timalart]

You are very honest in sharing this, and some artists will use AI for ideas, compositions, atmosphere, etc. others might not,. I believe it;s up to the artist. I personally never find inspriration, composition, light or subjects by using AI. I made once images from a prompt and realised this is not for me. I use my own fantasy and both the idea and everything in the drawing is "me". However, of course, we are all influenced by art from great artists and daily life images, but I don't need any AI to help me with being creative.

[@michaeljohnangel6359]

An excellent video! Thanks!!!! People can be so daft: are they not going to look at Caravaggio's, Holbein's, Canaletto's, or Vermeer's, et al, paintings because they painted from projections of the models onto the canvas? An artist uses whatever information is available.

[@sj7820]

Thank you for this video! Your AI pictures are so beautiful. If you’d want to make a video on how to create the best images to paint from, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on this 😊

[@peterbunyan3924]

Excellent talk, l have always thought use what ever tool you need to get you to paint your masterpeice 😉

[@justme.9711]

Your website is such an asset to the painting community globally, you should have an international award and a million dollars - SIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@davidtebera4488]

Nice works! Your last bit on AI images. It would be interesting if you shuttered through the first concept to the last to see how you tweaked an image. The only cheating is signing someone else's work.

[@vincentmarotta9800]

This is exactly how I feel about this topic. Thank you. There's a couple of things we as artists need to consider, whether we want to, should have to, or otherwise: 1. AI is here to stay. It's not going away. 2. AI has real potential to be used as a TOOL, and not a REPLACEMENT! 3. Never tell anyone what specific AI images you use as references, because people might claim (future) copyright and sue you. Examples: - It might be good with color theory: While coming up with a painting/subject in my mind, where I know there's a specific vibrant color of orange I want, I might struggle with going through the gambit of the neigh infinite different oranges available. However, one day I stumble upon an AI image that uses in an unrelated, even unintended manner, a hue of orange that I think is just perfect for my painting! It's exactly what I want. So, I put that image on a tablet, color match the best I can, then maybe tweak the orange hue slightly as I paint it or incorporate other colors. In my opinion, this is totally fine to do. - Posing or composition: I might want to draw a breakdance fighter striking a funny pose, but getting things like perspective and lighting right is difficult and cumbersome. All your attempts don't work. However, you see an AI image of a ballerina doing near exactly the pose you want, in a decent perspective angle you'd like. So you place the AI image on a tablet, use a sketch pad and pencil to draw your own version. Update and tweak. Then finish your composition and setup. You used a totally different subject matter to help with your creation. This to me is fine. - Fashion ideas: I don't know the first thing about Middle Eastern combat armor in the 1500's, and all reference pictures I find are either severely dated, or unimaginative. So I use AI to come up with really unique designs for Middle Eastern-inspired armor that looks like they could belong in the 1500's. So knowing it's not historically accurate, and is for a fantasy setting, I mix and match different AI creations and sketch draw myy own design, then apply that to my painting. These are like a few examples of how AI images could be used as effective tools to level up your design work. We just need to understand that it's not a REPLACEMENT for creativity, and we also need to be cautious not to fall in a creative slump, where we marginalize our creations and limit it to what ChatGPT tells us. As for robots painting and the future struggle of authenticating ourselves: We might need to either become part of "authentication" groups that attest to "Yes, this human made this painting. Certified fresh." Or...we might need to create a database of pictures of us working the many hours on the project, save them in a folder, then if legally our work comes in to question, we can present evidence that we did _something_ to an actual canvas that ends up looking like what we want. I think those ways are good enough. We also don't need to share the "art proof process" with anyone until it's legally necessary.

[@MayaState]

This is the best video I’ve ever seen involving A.I.

[@marcusmoonstein242]

Apparently one of the great artists (Da Vinci?) used to hold his brush in his left hand and blend the wet oil paints on the canvas with the fingertips of his right hand. This technique resulted in his paintings being covered with his fingerprints imprinted directly into the oil paint. This made his paintings impossible to forge, and would be a great way to guarantee the authenticity of any painting.

[@richmoab]

Interesting idea

[@lucieth555]

We have to rethink our definition of authenticity. Letting an algorithm rip off photographers, 3D artists and modellers, 2D painters and general artists of all kinds and then just painting it and letting your finger print be your seal of authenticity is as fake as me ripping off a piece by Rembrandt and calling it my own because "look, I mixed my DNA into my oils in the form of dead skin!". Bit hyperbolic, but I think it is funny when artists start going down that road to just let algorithms like midjourney take control of such a large part of the image making process on the backs of other artists without permission. Let alone the environmental impact running those services has on the planet. It's sad and out of touch.

[@piorism]

@@lucieth555 I think this is simply the Fine Arts world being struck by a huge case of FOMO - and then finding all kinds of ways to beat around the bush to justify litteral art and identity theft. I suppose this is human nature.

[@ronschlorff7089]

Nice, I love his "mirror writing" too!! :D

[@MrMjp58]

Acknowledging that since photography became accessible to all, paintings - from throughout its history, just look different to me, than they might have at the time they were done. Mostly I view paintings in books and now, online. This is ok, but seeing the original is always much more revealing of process, scale, technique and so on. My favourite group of paintings are those produced by a small collection of artists, working in the 1880’s in England and especially, in France. These people obviously used photographs, but added a bizarrely realistic approach to representing light. The two masters of this style were Bastien Lepage and Dagnan Bouveret.