Checkerboard Formation Explained

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[@chilidoghamsalad9952]

High elves are a proud warrior race and by refusing to use a staunch line of spears you are disgracing the race. You should be ashamed of yourself for constantly min/maxing the game to intentionally destroy yours and your viewer's immersion. The AI is designed to give the player a challenge not to be abused by a scummy cheeser with no respect to the units and lore provided by GW.

[@LegendofTotalWar]

I have been destroyed.

[@Qulize]

Nice b8 m8

[@DINONERD27]

Lmao

[@albinandersson1154]

The elves are now using their shiv-check, laser beams-check, bodybags-check, daggers-check. Pretty much anything they can get their hands on to stop being harrassed by the mamas boy who keeps ruining their lawns. And the keep their lives from being ended by murmaids:)!

[@TheGerudan]

@@LegendofTotalWar Checkmate!

[@SirMcAwesome]

Dunno why he called the checkerboard cheese. It's a legit, actual formation that makes logical and tactical sense. Probably one of the least cheesy things Legend has done that's also very effective.

[@R3GARnator]

The Romans used it in real life. Weakest troops in the front to tire the enemy out, best troops in the back.

[@bredalocos076]

Putting them in the corner makes it cheese

[@oskarpalus2846]

@@R3GARnator Damn partian cheese! - Crassus at Carrhae

[@dinoblacklane1640]

@@R3GARnator Even that is good in the game, weak forces go in to weaken and exhaust the enemy, strong forces go in to mop up

[@k.e.v.2011]

He ironies on the people who say he has no honor or balls because strategy it's cheese.

[@vein4912]

Meanwhile I forget to turn off Skirmish while doing Checkerboard formation and the whole thing goes to shit

[@IonAeon]

You can go in to options and have it be turned off as a default setting.

[@SunJianMaster]

@@IonAeon holy, thanks, that will help a lot

[@remito7839]

@@IonAeon That's actually really nice because usually Skrimish just ruins everything.

[@khayyamaurelius912]

@@remito7839 I've played total war since I was a kid and I've always hated skirmish mode. fuck skirmish mode. even on horse archers.

[@NottABucket]

KhayyamAurelius yessir fuck skirmish all my homies hate skirmish

[@malletin]

Apparently any tactic beyond lining up in a single line and bumrushing the enemy is considered cheese.

[@knightshade3d51]

Yeah people get salty if he doesn’t rush in. People get salty if he does. Can’t win on the internet, KZbin chief of all lol.

[@TheInfamousMrFox]

@rockn roll If it works, it's not a poor tactic.

[@TheInfamousMrFox]

@Doven Ro Galus I've been playing Total War games for 20 years since Shogun1, and I accept that given the limited nature of the map you can't always use terrain as a natural blocker as you would and the map edge makes a decent substitute. If it were more open, you'd simply back up to a river or a hill. If it was an "exploit" they'd have removed sometime in the last 20 years. But thanks for sharing your extensive experience, opinion and lack of imagination.

[@knightshade3d51]

Doven Ro Galus Thats just effective strategy. Exploits used to be considered a bug in the game that could be taken advantage of, but now anything that makes the game easier is considered an exploit or cheese anymore 😕

[@Ren1111]

@Doven Ro Galus if ca didn't like it they could change the visuals of the edge of each map so there is a physical barrier as well as an invisible one, the maps still have to be square and a certain size. Also playing on the side of the map can be just as bad for the player, if any of your units route u lose them instantly

[@stepheng618]

"It's a cheese!" Said Napoleon when Wellington arranged his troops in squares offset like this. Legitimate tactic I say.

[@winterchamois2399]

yeah checkerboard formation is not cheese corner camping is cheese though

[@fourcgames7568]

@@winterchamois2399 Yeah but that's not a requirement to make checker board work tho. It simply make it more effective. And it's not a 100% cheese, it's the same as if you placed your toops next to a river or a cliff, it's basically a natural barier.

[@Omnomface]

"But legend, it's cheeeeese!" ...what do people think strategy is?

[@R3GARnator]

The Art of War is just a cheese compilation.

[@OkurkaBinLadin]

"People" think, that strategy consist of smashing two lines against each other until either collapses. Average denizen of "people" has about as much common sense as an Ork.

[@CornBredCrusader]

IDK, but IMO cheese as opposed to strategy is that cheese is pretty much only effective vs AI, while strategy is useful vs all opponents. This goes deeper than just something like checkerboard formation though, as the AI has terrible marco strategy and gets compensated for that by having raw stat increases.

[@WillowGreenheart]

Someone think corner camping is strategy lol xD

[@winterchamois2399]

strategy is cheese and cheese is strategy

[@MajorGloryMan]

It's not even cheese! That is exactly how armies fought between the high middle ages and the renaissance, when you had checkerfields of "porcupines", i.e. a mix of pikemen and early gunpowder units. Proven and true technique ;)

[@Asmodeity]

Yes, everyone knows the dirty romans won the punic wars by corner camping so that Hannibal couldn't outflank them and so that his soldiers would route off the battlefield faster.

[@pp-wo1sd]

You are a bit off with the timeline . Checkerboard formation was started to be used during the late medieval and reinessance era (pike and shot). Also corner camping was a thing in history , though you would dig a trench on your flanks (or have some natural obstacles) instead of having some invisible borders . One distinct diffrence is that the opposing army always had more options than you have ingame .

[@Ray-tx2ls]

@@pp-wo1sd True! Oftentimes rivers would be used for this purpose.

[@nuclearpiez2986]

u referring to the spanish tercio?

[@DocGuara]

@@Asmodeity battle of thermopylae is a good example of corner camping.

[@JunoNH]

Another benefit is that in a line your units in the middle can only go forward or backwards, but when checkboarded most of your units can move in 4 directions which is a huge manoeuvre advantage.

[@mattdanielc]

can you advise what keyboard controls to use to make the group move like legend does? i.e. when he selects the consecutive units to then move to create the formation. When I try to move them it just moves them into a new line? Thanks

[@JunoNH]

@@mattdanielc select all, hold alt, drag

[@PumpkinHoard]

You know, it took me quite a while to get used to using Generals as a tank. I was used to old TW games and keeping the General safe, maybe using him in dire circumstances or to flank and break units already engaged in melee. But I have to say I quite like having these "epic heroes" on the battlefield.

[@ElBandito]

That makes the game less of an RTS and more of a MoBA, IMO. DoW series suffered from it, resulting hero in DoW3 soloing many squads of enemies by himself. Which de-emphasized RTS part and made the game battle arena-esque instead.

[@canedy999]

yes, it's very nice that the major cornerstone fo your army's leadership is cable of prolonged combat, at least in most cases in TWWH.

[@majormononoke8958]

Funny, though i normally have my generals running around killing everything they can or can not, sometimes engaging their heavy cavallerie so my infanterie/missiles/ other cavallerie can destroy their infanterie... OF course in most of the campaigns i lose so many generals and family memebers that i fastly iam out of them lol ... Their is allways a charged to be made, only to lose our general in last second... hahah... So either i win spectacular or lose or win but lose my general/generals ... :)) Since generals regenerate troops really fast in the older TV games specially... hahaha... Normally i level my generals really fast though... since they suffer so many casulties and kill so many ... But yeah if they die to fast ... The battle is often over ...

[@unteejo3678]

This mostly only applies to Campaign though. Try this recklessly in the Multiplayer battle and the general will be melted instantly.

[@BobMcBobJr]

@@majormononoke8958 In TWM2, I always use my general to waste enemy ammo. So what if I lose half his bodyguard? Now, their archers have to fight me in melee. This does only work in early game (late game arty/longbows/guns will wreck an exposed general) but by that time I own a large empire and can afford to lose troops.

[@m.azraqudratullah8620]

Oh don't worry legend. There will be one or two people that ask again on your livestream about how checkerboard formation work

[@BeStOHoLd]

if at least was just one or two XD

[@robinekhoodekful]

Now he can point out a video to them, not explain the whole thing all over again

[@knightshade3d51]

Raven We all know they’ll still keep asking lol

[@GMorgan84]

Yeah but at least chat can post this link

[@ilesalmo7724]

One of the best early-game armies. I wonder if "tier 1 doomstacks" video has already been done.

[@MinscS2]

Low-tier doomstacks: Empire: Archers Bretonnia: Peasant Bowmen. High Elves: Archers (w/o armor) Wood Elves: Darkshards. Dark Elves: Glade Guard. Dwarfs: Quarrellers. OnG: Goblin Archers Tomb Kings: Skeleton Archers... if applicable. V.Counts: Not applicable, spam free skeletons. Norsca: Berserkers Skaven: Slaves with slings. Lizardmen: No idea tbh. V.Coast: Bloated Corpses. :p Warriors of Chaos: Dont bother.

[@cheezitchar1239]

MinscS2 the Lizardmen one is to play as Itza and use Gor Rok and Kroak. It’s all you need

[@Mario-kf3ej]

actually it sucks horribly for eltharion , no jokes. Terrible army choice. Go with lothern sea guard - no need for shield version , tier 2 aint asking too much. Why ? Because he gives + 8 discipline and + 8 to defence to spear units and they start rank 3 aswell , on top of that his buff is even more useful for units that can do some fighting. I know I used them , basically they are so strong under him they could last till end game.

[@nvmtt1403]

@@MinscS2 i think you messed up wood elves and dark elves a bit.

[@torquevonthorne948]

The correct name is * cough cough* poorstacks :P

[@erikheineman4134]

love how the tabletop game's most elite maneuvers carry over to WHTW, though this used to be a skaven slave strat because high elves would just cost too many points to do it in a standard 2k match

[@Kalenz1234]

Well Skaven are also the only ones in table top that can fire at their own units when they are engaged in melee.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

It helps to have Eltharion. Grim Resolve gives your entire army Martial Mastery, except it lasts all the way down to 25% health. That, plus the constant ammo replenishment, makes his basic tier 1-2 armies exceptionally resilient.

[@Count.Saruman]

Grim Resolve belongs to Volkmar I think. This is 'Grim Discipline'

[@Nightmare_52]

and he can fly + heal himself

[@nicolinrucker5181]

how exactly do you get that "constant ammo replenishment"? I could have sworn people said it was the Vampire Coast bonus but that's their "extra damage at high ammo"

[@antonjavierdizon959]

@@nicolinrucker5181 It's a skill in Eltharion's skill tree called "Unending Volley". Gives his army's ranged units a passive ammo replenishment. Recovers ammo every 25 seconds, I think.

[@Baneb1984]

I doubt you will ever read this Legend, but I just wanted to say thank you for your help/tips and tricks. Ive learned so much from your videos and I was able to actually defeat 3 armies with my one army recently for my first time. So keep up the good work ya bastard.

[@KazeKoichi]

"Make sure your worst archers are in the front" You mean lothern seaguards?

[@R3GARnator]

I mean that is the best value you could get out of them, doing ranged damage where a melee unit couldn't, and putting up a better melee fight than a pure archer.

[@ingold1470]

I wonder if the Dwarf equivalent uses Ironbreakers at the front, and then a bunch of thunderer squares behind.

[@pritsky4219]

@@ingold1470 Thunderers can't arc their shots nearly as much as archers or crossbowmen. They do use guns after all. Checkerboards don't work well with guns in the back lines.

[@trev6783]

Lothern sea guard are by far the high elves best early game unit. Building straight to a full stack, allows you to then switch half to sisters of avelon later and use the sea gaurd as front line troops. Plus having range units with shields are pretty strong just saying.

[@Kamidon74]

Damn good video Legend. Thanks for teaching the n00bs the checkerboard formation and just showing how effective it really is. Appreciate you

[@orarinnsnorrason4614]

Romans used this tactic. As Legend says, it's situational. Theory is that while the enemy might outnumber the Romans the Romans let them run past their columns and in so doing the enemy was being flanked on all sides because they were in the turtle formation and could throw their pilas from all directions. This also meant that the Romans would risk this because they were confident in their discipline because in this formation everyone is flanked essentially.

[@Jakromha]

Romans were only in turtle formation when sieging or when dealing with an archer only army, in neither case would the enemy be funneled into the gaps of the checkerboard. Additionally, it was not possible to throw pila from turtle formation.

[@failtolawl]

yea he was talking about how this is one of the only total war games where this tactic actually does what it's supposed to do, doesn't work in rome and rome 2.

[@nautamaterram]

@@Jakromha Yes and no. The Romans did use that tactic in a couple major battles, and it was a favorite of Scipio Africanus who really brought it to the spotlight. However, historical evidence for widespread use of the tactic after Zama is lacking, indicating that it was used up until the Second Punic War. During that time, the Romans employed more pikes and swords. However as pila became more prevolent, a roman checkerboard faded away, because again, it was impossible to throw pila and it constricted the larger armies, making them open to being flanked. This is the primary reason the Romans lost at Zama, which again was the last major battle with it's recorded use.

[@Person01234]

That sounds like rubbish. The testudo was primarily an anti-archer formation (it could be used in close combat and was effective but it also makes it somwhat more difficult to fight hand to hand and there were better setups) and what you're saying remind me of a joke misquote (that goes something like ""we're surrounded" "good, now we can shoot in any direction and still hit something!""). What you're describing doesn't sound like a legitimate military tactic (although that's not to say noone ever found themselves in a similar situation or that your description isn't simply slightly off but describing a similar thing).

[@Jakromha]

@@nautamaterram I've never heard of Romans using pikes.

[@slinkyslink5161]

Damn, a whole video. You went 120 percent on fulfilling that promise.

[@thenelldk558]

bUt lEGeNd iT's cHeEsE

[@Thickolas]

"Box formations are cheese" - Napoleon probably

[@winterchamois2399]

indeed

[@dac314]

"But Legend, that's Cheese!" The real cheese is doing the after-care, healing your single entity units and chasing down trolls for exp and to eliminate them from the army! Good win!

[@3ch056]

The Manipular Formation used to its finest extent. Rome would be proud XD

[@winterchamois2399]

indeed

[@GideonCyn]

"A technique that has existed for a long time" Yep! about 2000 years. The Triplex Acies i think it was called, Roman checkerboard formations were OP in the ancient world too!

[@aqui1ifer]

deity 93 To be more accurate: The checkerboard formation itself is called the Quincunx. The Triplex Acies is referring to the 3 lines Roman armies would deploy during Polybian & Marian Legion days. It helps that he’s using both here.

[@pride2184]

um pretty sure triplex was way before marian days lmao. yes 3 lines but they stopped using hastatiis and tararris and princpes because of marius reforms that revolutionized the army and they pretty much used manipular system which was what the legions used for most of it life til later reforms. but the tactic wasn't op to pikes, why they changed it.

[@jax2728]

Armies did not fight in this formation. They closed the distance with it. If they did use this formation the dudes on the front would get flanked and destroyed if the second line troops did not move in to close the gaps.

[@italianwaffle5592]

Knights who say NI Well, you pulled that out of your ass.

[@L0rd0fLight1]

@@jax2728 THIS, people actually don't know what they are talking about when it comes to Roman tactics.

[@UberPossu]

tbh i dont see how this is "cheese". its just a good formation

[@LoremasterLiberaster]

You see, anything except recruiting full melee armies on legendary and charging them uphill is cheese (c) naysayers

[@Fischdosepremium]

Generally I agree. Combining it with corner camping however is some really lactose heavy shit.

[@TheMicholon]

@@andrewgodly5739 It's true. There is no honor in war. Only winning matters.

[@Blottingpaper]

Yeah it's certainly opened my eyes up to its value.

[@MyName-Jeff]

Corner camping is typically seen as cheese because on the map it doesn't look like anything should stop movement there, except the game mechanic. Although one piece of artillery will erase a corner camper.

[@Multifire]

This is super effective with Sea Guard with Shields. It's essentially an imitation of roman legions at that point, the inventors of the checkerboard strategy. I do it all the time with high elves, it's awesome. Makes me really hyped to build empires.

[@KNR90]

I'm pretty sure the Greeks and Romans did this with their units. If it's done historically it's not cheese

[@AidanDracole]

Greeks didn't, well the ancient Greeks didn't, since the hoplite/pike phalanx couldn't support the checkerboard formation at all. But the Romans certainly did with the Polybian Legions, triplex acies etc. because engaged front line units couldn't be wrapped by the enemy because charging second line units was used as a Damocles' sword over the enemy's head. The HRE also did (in a way) with the introduction/perfection of the tercio.

[@masondouglas99]

They did it with melee, not range only

[@CarrotConsumer]

It's cheese because it abuses the garbage AI. Then again that makes everything you do cheese.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

@@masondouglas99 well their melee units had ranged, and atleast some manuels describe the pilum as the true main weapon of legionaries, the gladius is just to finish the job.

[@alvaro701]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 wat thats imposible, the pila was not even think to kill, but to make useless the shields of the enemy, and it was only efective against the first enemy line

[@skyeazura3593]

Ever since seeing you do checker boarding, i have done checker boarding for 90% of my fights that are not sieges lmao

[@asfsqfiaheai4545]

Hey legend. Started watching you a couple months ago. You convinced me to buy WH2 and I can honestly say I love this game. It has made my quarantine so much easier. You're videos have been incredibly helpful in helping me challenge the AI on the harder difficulties. If people watch your videos and actually pay attention to your tactics, they will succeed. Keep up the great work!

[@RovalisGTO]

You have the best Total War content by miles bro. I've been flying through your content and learning a ton, even though I have almost 5000 hours combined between different Total War games. I've used the Checkerboard formation a bunch but I never realized why it was so effective. The only thing I put together was that a square formation is enormously more effective at reorienting themselves for a new focus target. I've tended to start with a small checkerboard and then bring flanking archers around either side to form an aggressive U-shaped killing field, or a delta/chevron shaped flank-defense formation around the rear checkerboard units. The only faction that I had trouble with this was against the Dark Elves. Dark Shards and Bolt Throwers are just brutal once they get in range and my poor-boy-archers without armor or shields take just as much or more damage than they deal out.

[@ryanjones6384]

Actual footage of Julius Ceasar using checker board ranks, circa 50 B.C.E. Gauls declared it to be "cheesy bullcrap."

[@michaellaborn7068]

Legend, you've come so far, man. Now you're literally making time to explain a concept to help ease the pressure for your vets and not yourself. That statement got me, that's super cool.

[@BaconHer0]

Hey Legend, videos like these are great! Tiny little tutorials you use in your play through. Great to have these short little videos on how to min-max specific races/lords/armies that we can share with friends. Many times I wanna share a cool concept in your live stream but I can never find that 5 minute segment in an 8 hour vid. Really appreciate if you could make one for Vampire Counts crap stacking and magic. Looking forward to more!

[@CBGBBB]

Checkerboard pattern is cool, I’ve had similar results with pinning down large groups with generals or captains and having archers on skirmish ready to run. Archers that shoot while they run is a huge part of that strategy.

[@Siluriiformes]

Try vampire coast, almost every unit that can shoot also fires while moving.

[@richardsmallwood2645]

awesome vid legend ijust cant rap my head around how good you are at campaigns!!!! keep up the great work with your vids i love watching them!!!!

[@venomsnake4042]

Thank you Legend, I've been using your formation cheese tactics and have been doing better on battles

[@knuckle1493]

Wish I would've seen this before I sent in my disaster battle, it ended up not being such a disaster afterall. Thanks Legend!

[@ashina2146]

Once tried a Checker Board type formation as the Empire using Halberds and Hand Gunners, it does need micro, but if your Halberdier is upgraded enough in the Red Skill Tree, they will hold while the Hand Gunners try to find the perfect spot to unleash their volley on the gaps.

[@lukusridley]

Super nice and elegant battle and video demonstrating the concept. A static formation that makes sense is the opposite of cheese!

[@CardinalBiggles01]

Beautiful spread of kill across those archers. Nice demo mate

[@kevintrigg3707]

was watching the stream yesterday and didnt understand why the formation is effective thanks

[@Dead_Fish0]

Love the video LTW! as many have said this is a tactic as old as the Rome. But an interesting thing about the Romans using this in real life, is as battles would go on for hours, checkerboard makes it really easy for 1st/2nd ranks to swap whilst still keeping in formation, that way the front line soldiers are always fresh! (but obviously this tactic isn't really represented in the TW games, mainly because battles are so quick)

[@TheMooselee]

“But legend it’s cheeze” lol classic. Too funny. Great vid as usual. Cheers!

[@InternetMameluq]

10:00: Uh. I'm the first person to complain about cheese, but I'm pretty sure that this is a legitimate tactic

[@thatsjustgay]

"But Legend, It's ChEeSe!" killed me, great vid thanks for all the help

[@ronaldp7573]

Excellent video. This reminds me of the Soviet doctrine of "deep battle" where defence in depth was used to absorb the German blitz. By taking away the shock of the attack, the German spearhead was stalled and could be stopped. The same principle is in play here. The orc army is using shock infantry to attempt to penetrate your line then move to the rear and envelop you. By creating so much depth and giving then no choice but to attack along the deepest axis of your line you take away the shock ability of their army while using your superior firepower to cut then down. Another reason your videos are so enjoyable. You have an eye for finding what is weak in your opponent and bringing what is strongest in the army you're handed against it.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

thats not just what deep battle was/is, deep battle involves fighting with a 'deep' and wide formation in both defense and attack. and was developed before blitzkrieg

[@torquevonthorne948]

Some man record a video just to don't explain something over and over again. A cost-efficient choice.

[@notverysmart8141]

cracking this open again for a kislev campaign kosar spam army. thanks a ton for this legend

[@codexaeterna]

Legend, you are by far a hundred times better at this game than I am, but I'm a little proud I started using this formation before you :) When I was just starting and kept losing as the Empire, I started researching historical formations, primarily Pike and Shot formations during the renaissance era. It's cool to see real military formations work in simulation!

[@666Kaca]

He prefers chevron formations for gunners and has been using both that one and this one for quite a while

[@ElBandito]

Perhaps the first line of 4 archers should be light armored version so that they can tank even better while the rest of the regular archers can shoot the enemy to oblivion.

[@letsroll2001]

Great video. Thanks Legend.

[@alexbooth5981]

I was struggling so much with battles like this as eltharion this is life changing

[@DoubleFreedom]

Seeing that Legend also forgets to put on the banners at the start made me feel better

[@claytonjohnson3133]

Such a simple yet effective tactic

[@KroM234]

I'm always used the checkerboard formation since TW1. I found it especially useful with rifles (Empire and Dwarves or full Lothern Sea Guards with shields) as the formation allow them to have nice close range direct shots on the flanks of enemy units. But to me the main interest is that you can manoeuver the shooters easily from one spot to another within the formation without bumping into other units. That being said I'm using a half melee (good to defend against charges) half shooters composition. It's also easy to protect your artillery within this formation. To ones saying it's cheesing, well it's just the optimal deployment if you rely on ranged units to be your killers given how the game works. Basically tactics...

[@FredericoASousa]

I love seeing the arrow lines all going down on a unit and seeing the hp just plumet. Bonus points if its explosive or fire damage, so you can see all the damage going. That's why I love the Empire and the dwarfs

[@andikasatriop]

Everytime I watch your vids, I always waiting for that gremlin type of laughing xD

[@claykalmar8131]

It's like real life historical formations are good or something haha.

[@MajorEazy1996]

i would actually like more of these videos to show different strategy's and formations not everyone might know this was a great vid ^^

[@MegaIIxGriimZz]

I would love to see you try different new formations to test and rate them, can make the battle more fun to play !

[@PiddilyPudding]

"But Legend it's cheese!" -As he retorts with "fuck off" then snickers like a gobbo.-

[@DeathByRabbit]

I feel like this is one of the least cheesey things I've seen Legend do actually lo, minus the corner camping of coursel. Formations aren't what I would consider cheese. Putting your troops in a formation that is effective and works is what you should be striving to learn how to do and is honestly something I wish I knew more about.

[@xboi4359]

Legend of Total war is the ultimate big brother who beats the hard levels for you

[@richardsmallwood2645]

i love your thumbnails they are so funny good job!

[@DeadEndGoose]

Formations, quick single topic videos about battlefield tactics would be great

[@memyselfandi432]

"But Legend, it's cheese!" "Precisely!"

[@hentaioverwhelming]

Checkerboard formations are also super effective for all-range Skaven armies like Clan Skryre. I mentioned previously that my favorite general purpose army composition for Clan Skryre is 1 lord + 3 engineer heroes + 3 catapults + 3 jezail snipers + 10 ratling gunners. With infinite ammo, I typically go 3 lines deep of ratling gunners in a 3-4-3 checkerboard formation, the lord and heroes are out in front to tar pit enemy units, the jezail snipers are spread out in the back with the catapults. The idea is to be compact enough to force the AI to funnel themselves into an overlapping killzone with a focus on maximizing firepower while exploiting the safety of defense-in-depth. In most cases in the mid (roughly turn 50) to late game (turn 100+), only the first two lines of ratling gunners ever see action because of their 200+ range. The other advantage of focusing so heavily on ratling gunners is their unique suppression perk/effect which is a speed debuff on anything that the ratling gunners shoot at. And because ratling gunners dish out a stupid amount of damage PLUS the passive stacking damage buffs from the engineers, each ratling gun unit does something like 4.8K damage IIRC. If you want to delete elite enemy units stupidly fast, this is pretty much the fastest way to go about it.

[@nonevahed5559]

... But don't the ratlings get in each other's ways, when checkerboarded like that? And ratlings lose a lot of accuracy when firing at the edge of their range. And Clan Skryre has access to the menace below, if you're good about corruption spread and under cities you'll usually get 2-4 uses even in enemy territory. Furthermore, you have plague priests, who can summon even more clanrats and some plague monks as well, while being good melee tanks. 90% of the time, having plague priests and your lord and summons hold the sides will work long enough for a line of ratling guns to annihilate the enemy center, although turning can then be a pain. Now, if the AI is running a full monster-spam army, then yeah line of sight is no longer a problem, go checkerboard.

[@hentaioverwhelming]

@@nonevahed5559 : I've never had my ratling gunners get obstructed with my checkerboard formation. What Legend uses is a tight square checkerboard formation. The checkerboard formation that I use maximizes each ratling unit's rectangular width and space them out such that any unit can do a full on the spot rotation without colliding with any of their neighboring units. Basically, I have my units spaced out just enough that Bretonnian cavalry units often take the bait of taking a wedge formation and trying to charge through the space between my first line. The other thing I've kind of noticed with ratling gunners is that I think that they are "short" so they were able to shoot over the first line's heads. I've also seen this with my jezail snipers shooting over my first line's heads. While I have access to Menace Below, I've rarely had to use them mostly because the 200+ range and suppression effect of the ratling gunners destroyed most things before they even get within 100 range of my first line. The irony is that the Skaven Menace Below ability is a hard counter to this army.

[@grantpaterson1016]

I remember you commenting on just how effective chequerboard was for the Dwarves during your competition...it solved so many issues for units that need to move less. Did you ever try that Skaven artillery spambtw? It almost worked in the Comp if he hadn't had them in a single line.

[@ShinGetsu857]

Problem with skaven is that they have very flat balistic for both Ratlings and jezzails, which reduce the effectiveness of checkerboard. Imo it's better to leave them in a firing line and use single entities heroes or doomwheels to tank while the gunners whittle everything down.

[@k.e.v.2011]

@@ShinGetsu857 I think he's referring to one of the stacks shawn in the Cheese Tournament, it was composed by 19 Warp Lighting Cannons. But the guy placed them on a flat and close line. Anyway, to answer that, I don't think he has tried it because he doesn't like something so specialized in one and only field ( vs large ). They wouldn't be available in a siege as they shoot straight. And they would get wrecked by a full stack of Skavenslaves.

[@grantpaterson1016]

@@ShinGetsu857 It was a Warp lightning only army... It was very effective but he put them in a straight line and were shut down really quickly...it was really close at the end and the idea was to try it again with chequerboard...

[@wc_craggen3320]

legend of checker board formation ... and a legend for having the idea of it

[@Toothless_Cowboy]

Nice! thanks for the explanation.

[@TheKnightCore]

Wow this was insightful. Thank you

[@charlesliuzzo7275]

Great video. I'm still going to troll by asking why this formation is good during the next stream.

[@micahmccomb7155]

Legend: "this has been around for little while before me" Roman Fucking Empire: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@aqui1ifer]

Ah, the Roman Quincunx, no surprise this formation works in game like IRL. Even the fact that your units have ranged attacks like Hastatii & Principe, Legionaries, & Comitatenses is just like the real thing.

[@michaelpriestley1304]

Nice!! The roman manipular formation in effect. The roman way is always the sure way

[@lezardvaleth2304]

There's cheese, and then there's _historically fucking tried and tested._ Romans used the checkerboard to clear Southern Europe on Very Hard/Legendary.

[@macentertainment8134]

nice stuff i use this formation all the time now works so well

[@vanman118]

If checkboard is cheese then a good portion of classic warfare was cheese too

[@bloodrave9578]

Thanks Legend for the tips, I tried it and it helped

[@forshor1998]

For effective high elf checkerboard it can be worth adding some lothern seaguard to make up the front as they'll hold longer but still shoot. So in a 20 stack maybe 12 archers, 4 sea guard, your lord plus 3 hero's, dragons or artillery.

[@smoadia85]

marian reforms and roman legionary tactics still useful all these while

[@shakkarugat9184]

What a revolutionary idea to make a video about your pro strat! Very good! I dont even know where did you get this?

[@Balt21Raven]

That's not cheese, it's just brilliant.

[@theetiologist9539]

Playing against this army as early game lizard men is a complete and utter nightmare.

[@cikifik3053]

One day when this man stops posting videos, Don´t cry he be planning strategies to win WW3

[@aaronnievar7736]

You couldn't live with your failure to Google the formation so that brought you back to ME to fully explain it again!

[@pilkington5658]

So far this DLC honestly is probably my favorite. Along with the Greenskin update there is just so much quality within it, especially Grom's content.

[@chriskowalski6087]

I love that they make playing green skins an actual option now that they fixed fightiness and the tech tree. I’m going for a whole world takeover with the green skins rn just because of the changes.

[@bjack1547]

I'm just here for staunch lines of checkerboards

[@botep5529]

Also great thing about checkerboard, because units come into range at different intervals you dont have multiple archers firing an opening barrage at the same time. The damage overkills the unit and wastes ammo

[@loganwallace101]

While I agree the checkerboard is a great tactic, it seems that the main difference maker here was using the hero units to harass and delay the enemy, archers would have done the same any other formation. Checkerboard is really useful with gunpowder units however as they need a direct line of sight to fire.

[@SquatComrade]

I was making a sandwich, but found out i am out of cheese. So i decided to check legends channel for fresh vids.

[@winterchamois2399]

lol

[@TheGCDesigns]

I think that a lot of the time you use tactics that are considered "cheese" and you never try to deny it. But I would say the checkerboard pattern is just smart unit alignment. The AI already gets enough of a boost on the highest difficulty so I dont see why you would build an army in the classic sense of a shielded front line when it likely fails anyways. So for me in this case, I would disagree that the checkerboard is cheese even a little bit. Love the content :)

[@VulpesChama]

The basic idea of being in command is to reduce your losses while achieving a victory, with the best possible battle victory being a battle that is won without fighting. For that sense any general, admiral or whatever type of command position is leading a army is obligated to use every possible advantage. A clean and fast victory is not only reducing your losses, but in the best scenario even the losses of your enemy. (in games this is obviously different, especially in fantasy, where species are on the way to kill each other off completely). - In that sense there is no "cheese". Only tactics and strategy. Corner camping is mixed situation. It is a result of game mechanics, yet in terms of tactics it is just like position yourself on a cliff, so the enemy has a hard time reaching you. - I mean, people have always complained about certain ways to play. Just imagine a FPS title, and you playing a sniper. And then people "accuse" you of camping. Which is literally what a sniper is supposed to do. Or any soldier who is tasked with protecting something. You look for a nice defensive spot and stay there as long it gives you an advantage. That's not cheese, that's tactical thinking and acting. - If you don't want your opponent corner camp (this applies to multiplayer), then don't attack. If you are defending, wait until your opponent is moving towards you. Even with a melee purist army (in TW:WH) you don't have to attack unless you are the offensive one. And on most maps you can position yourself outside of their shooting range. In campaign mode, especially in singleplayer it doesn't even matter. There's no competition that needs you to play balanced. (Here we are at: using your advantages and do not play into your enemies advantages) - Balance shouldn't be a thing unless it is a game mode that is played competitive. Otherwise balance is often preventing or in conflict with RPG-elements. (Sorry for that long talk. One sentence leads to another and that leads to suffering which leads to the dark side which leads to utter random stuff coming out of my keyboard.)

[@rogerhill9559]

The standard doomstack for High Elves Sister Spam and Dark Elves Shade Spam

[@ShootinStarskies]

Here’s a tip. If you set your archers (all of them) to melee front formation without changing their default loaded in stance. All you do then is un- group lock them and hit alt+left arrow key to shortcut the condense unit formation until they are in a perfect block. It will put them all almost perfectly in checkerboard formation. Try it out!

[@JunoNH]

Something you've never mentioned in your livestreams is the to engage checkerboard formation you either go in one line in which case half your force is delayed/out of combat or you match the checkboard in which case half your front line forces are encircled on 3 sides (but so is the enemy) - which is naturally a dangerous choice to make and so there is some psychology involved.

[@Charlys787]

Yesterday I realized, I am not entirely sure who is trolling and who is serious with his questions in our merry little community.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

The man-thing brings cheese-gold to us!

[@T33K3SS3LCH3N]

Checkerboard also works great for charging infantry. It's how the Date's Nodachi were somewhat viable in Shogun 2.

[@Nightmare_52]

for this i use a couple lothern sea guard at the front since they have silver shields, high melee defence and charge defence to last longer than standard archers and even sisters in some cases

[@armandoparedes-zx6dg]

he did it... he actually did it.

[@MrRunRun89]

That's the "manipulus" and it should be a common tactic to any Total-War-player.

[@nickhass7757]

Love checkerboard with empire especially Balthazar, 4 tanks up front, bunch of handgunners, maybe some outriders for kiting and maybe some militia for flank breach