Chevrolet Citation & Friends

Welcome to Auto Chatter! Todays episode is about the Chevy Citation, Pontiac Phoenix, Oldsmobile Omega, and Buick Skylark. These were General Motors first FWD compacts as changes were happening in the car industry. Lets explore some info about these models, and see what can happen if you launch a product that wasnt quite ready for lift off......

[@P_RO_]

They started out as a good idea then morphed into a nightmare once built and purchased, hence the name "Ex-car" 🤣 It didn't help at all when it was revealed that the car press had been given "ringers" to test instead of the usual pre-production models with an extra going-over to ensure that nothing was obviously wrong.This is where GM fans lost trust and could no longer justify their blind love for the corporation any longer. None of the 'big 3' were regarded as 'the best' by this point; all having had their problems, but these cars stood out as being the worst or the worst till the Yugo showed us exactly how bad a new car experience could be. It's not a good sign when your newest cars experience large-scale failures and recalls even before the warranty expires. I mean how many other cars can you remember which had braking problems this bad under warranty? If you can't trust the basics, how good can the rest of the car be? These cars continued to sell only because it was clear that the old big cars they replaced were no longer viable or valuable and people simply had to buy something smaller and newer. Part of the problem was the multi-division design approach where each company had their own different goals and standards, and none were really used to working with each other before now. Like the GM board and staff, there were too many people doing independent repetitive competitive work when the efficiency of consolidation was clearly needed instead. But GM wouldn't budge; it was not their way to admit they'd screwed up or to change the genius way they did things. I don't think there were even able to grasp the concept of what failure means at that point. Yet some things good did come from this like the acceptance of a V6 instead of a V8, and of hatchbacks being handy (though they're out of vogue in the US now), as well as FWD having clear advantages on snowy winter roads. I once had a RWD Pontiac 6000 with the carburated HiPo 2.8 out of a Citation swapped in; not fast off the line but once rolling it did pretty good and from this we got the most excellent 3.8 later on. The downsizing of all cars has continued from these which is a good thing in every way. And only by need we lost carbs during the lifetime of these "ex-cars" for injection which has grown to be one of the biggest advances in cars ever. Cars don't have to be exciting or special in some way to be good cars or memorable cars, but these cars are best forgotten, and even wearing all of your rose-colored glasses on top of one another can't help them.

[@autochatter]

Wonderful post! I would argue that Americans HAVE embraced the hatchback, as just about all those tall wagons called crossovers have one!

[@theshowersinger6681]

I drove an ‘81 Skylark coupe with the Iron Duke and 4-speed manual until ‘96. It wasn’t terrible, but was cheap and easy to repair and maintain as well as got excellent mileage. Besides the Yugo, there were worse cars in those years, like Renault Le Car, Hyundai Excel, Mitsubishi-made Dodge Colt, Diahatsu Charade and anything AMC.

[@autochatter]

@@theshowersinger6681 I think the Yugo by far was the worst for sure! LeCars were not known for reliabilty either and Hyundai Excels had their share of problems. I'd place the Colts over all of them you listed.

[@pdennis93]

The Riviera shown is RWD. The first FWD Riviera debuted for 1979.

[@autochatter]

Yeah..Wasn't thinking..Someone caught that last night too. Sorry.

[@courtneypuzzo2502]

my late maternal grandmother drove a used 1984 Buick Skylark which was the top version of the X platform for 2 years when I was very young it was a nice/comfortable car

[@autochatter]

Our neighbor growing up was a kind elderly lady who bought a 4 dr Citation new and had it from 1981 untill she's passed in the early 2000s. I'm sure the car had low miles.

[@Mr6384]

Oh how close my dad came to owning an 80 Citation. He was currently leasing a 78 Buick Electra and decided that it was more car than he needed, especially since mom didn’t drive and I had my own car. So we went to the Chevy dealer and looked at a 4 door hatch- light blue over the same interior and no options to speak of-AM radio, auto and AC. I quietly told him to run away. The build quality in the one we test drove was deplorable-pieces loose or missing, clunk every time you put it in gear, really not something you’d want to show off. Thank goodness the deal fell through. Chevy wouldn’t budge a nickel off the price and told my dad “we will sell every one we have, and maybe at sticker plus” Never turned back. Oh and he bought a used 77 Corolla which he put well over 240,000 trouble free miles on! Great video

[@autochatter]

Thank you for enjoying it and sharing what could be called a "near miss".

[@sasz2107]

I drove an 81 Skylark for many, many years and put over 225,000 miles on it. You can say whatever you want - I've heard it all before. I was perfectly happy with my car and it wasn't anywhere near as bad as what the magazines and bad press would have you believe. It was more like, "are we talking about the same car?" There were some problems with the 1980 models, but the 81 and later model years were fine. In fact, I bought two other Buick Skylarks of this generation because I liked the car so much. I still have them to this day. I may not drive them as regularly as I once did, but I will say when I use them, they're still perfectly pleasant to drive. I don't really understand all of the hatred towards GM regarding these cars. There is some truth to it - but it's been greatly exaggerated and blown out of proportion, especially by people who never even owned one of these cars. They think they know what they're talking about because it's the narrative that's been told and re-told for many years - but in reality they don't know what they're talking about. They're just repeating what they heard others say. Yes, the 1980 models were released too early in 1979 because of the fuel crisis going on at the time. Thousands were sold. And not all of them were so bad. Especially if you got an 81 through 85 model.

[@autochatter]

I'm happy you have got such great service from yours! I did try to highlight that the X Cars got better after the first model year in my presentation. Its cool you still own more than one today! My personal experience with them is obviously more limited than yours, but for as many they sold, they did seem to disappear from the automotive landscape fairly quickly to me.

[@pcno2832]

The whole X-car program was more or less the beta-test for the FWD A-cars, but by 1981, most of the worst problems had been ironed out. My Father's Citation, with an Iron Duke and no AC, was almost trouble-free for over 100K miles. In the later years, they were kind of a bargain, having about the space of the A-cars (more trunk and a little less head room), for a lot less money. But you only get one chance to make a first impression.

[@autochatter]

Good summary. I'm sure resale value on them was horrible You only have one chance to make a good first impression.

[@cdes68]

My dad had one Citation V6, he had the habit of giving gas before rail crossing becasue 'You float over them if you go fast'. It lasted a couple of months before the front supension table broke while crossing them tracks. He got a pickup after that.

[@autochatter]

Prob was a good plan for him to do that!

[@aidanhullihen9525]

We need an N-body platform video now. Usually chevy gets the spotlight with sales (like with the citation at first) but this time around pontiac got the golden child of the platform.

[@autochatter]

It's coming, but I'm doing A Body this week....The Celebrity and clones!

[@BennyM_]

My sister had the Phoenix LJ coupe. I learned to drive in that car and was pretty nice.

[@autochatter]

I remember seeing more of the 4 door hatches and the Buick and Olds sedans than anything else.

[@robertahrens9481]

I ended up with a 1980 Citation that i did not want knowing they had problems. Paid $58 at a chevy dealer the one hour labor that was owed on it for diagnosis. The old man had his oil changed and the gas station forget to put oil in it. Big hole in the block but it had a brand new transmission and only 58k on it. Stumbled across a low mileage motor for $150. Popped it in and my wife drove it for almost 10 years. It was an Ugly car but u cant do that today at that cost! Hell i just spent $190 for a agm battery for my late model siverado. How times have changed !!!

[@autochatter]

58 bucks to put it in the air and say....Yeah there's a hole I can put my fist through. Sounds like you got your monies worth from it! I bought a then 5 year old 2000 Daewoo Lagenza for 500 bucks...Didn't need a engine, but I had a t belt put on it as it was past the 60k mark for it and wasn't done yet. Was a fine commuter car for a few years.

[@cmoore7700]

1980 I was 16 and was looking for a first car and my dad and I drove a citation with a stick shift, then a Renault LeCar, and a Dodge Omni, he and I then stopped by the Ford dealer and test drove the Fiesta and he and I both loved it and that's the car I bought. Probably a good thing as it was a more reliable car than the X cars and the others. Thanks for the video as I remember these cars well. Stay well

[@autochatter]

Thank you! I liked the little German Fiesta too. I think you chose well....especially when cars like the LeCar was considered LOL.

[@Ramcharger85]

Had a family member who owned a Citation when I was a kid. Ik high school i dated a couple of girls; one who's dad bought her a Citation to learn on. Another had a Buick Skylark. Always had a soft spot for these cars.

[@autochatter]

In HS...I saw more kids with J bodies or drove Moms A bodies like a Celebrity to school.

[@Ramcharger85]

@autochatter Lot of the kids I went to school drove whatever they cuykd either get from thier parents or bought themselves. I had an 88 Pontiac Grand Am myself.

[@autochatter]

@Ramcharger85 I had a motorcycle and rode it even in the dead of Winter then which sucked on some days.

[@raverboyloki]

I remember the commercial for these back when they were coming out - there was a lot of hype around the launch of these. The design of them, especially the two door reminds me of the previous generation Oldsmobile Cutlass Saloon (which had a weird bustle back design). I believe Buick had a version of this as well, but I do not think Oldsmobile or Pontiac had one, I could be wrong though. Maybe a feature for a future episode. Great videos! Thanks for creating these time capsules of memories.

[@autochatter]

I'm glad you enjoyed it! I myself was....quite young when these debuted, but have memories seeing them around in the 80s. The Seville around that time had a weird rear end thing going on too LOL.

[@Scotty_in_Ohio]

We had both a '80 Skylark (2.8 v6) as well as a '82 Citation (4 cylinder 4 speed) - both took the abuse that I dished out as a teen driver in the 80's and I learned to drive a manual on the Chevy and it survived that as well. Aside from a '94 Saturn SC2 those were the only GM products I've ever owned since - nothing against them - just never really tripped my trigger.

[@autochatter]

They served their purpose.

[@howebrad4601]

I own an 80 skylark, which i drove today. Still amazed how roomy they are for small cars. Good ride, handling, and comfort too. Iron duke engine is reliable but very crude. Had they had smooth engines i think the public would have better tolerated some of the other issues. Still like these and really like the 85 N cars, particularly the Grand Am.

[@autochatter]

Wow..Still have one! I'd agree a better 4 cly wouldn't hurt, and maybe if they delayed the cars another year to iron out more bugs. You already saw improvements by the time the A Bodies launched.

[@ronmckenna5962]

I remember reading an interview from an engineer who was on the development team for the X-cars.He said that these cars needed another year of development before coming to market and that Roger Smith, head of GM at the time, wanted these cars out in showrooms ASAP.He was told that the cars weren't ready for the public yet,but he didn't care what anyone said, just get them out.

[@autochatter]

Makes sense..I think I surmised in the video these cars would have benefited waiting a year.

[@Just-a-guy926]

I had a 1980 Buick Skylark Custom with the 2.8 v6 it was a lot of fun when the rear brakes locked up and I spun around at a red light.

[@autochatter]

I've rear rear brake lockup was a thing with those.

[@phantom0456]

Citation: it’s BUZZY!

[@catjudo1]

GM really needed this car to be right at the start. And they got it wrong, not for the first time and not for the last. This was probably the most important car GM had released since WWII and through cost cutting and corner cutting, they blew it, starting the trend of Americans buying ever more imported cars. Has GM learned from this? I doubt it, if a bankruptcy and a slew of also-ran products are any indicators. When they want to, GM can make good cars, but most of the time, they just half-ass it and call it a day.

[@Haircut474]

All of your videos are very good and informative.

[@autochatter]

Thank you! I appreciate that alot!

[@GeeEm1313]

My dad had two Citations, including a two-tone brown Citation II that somehow was still running strong in 1995. It had the V6 and not the Iron Duke.

[@autochatter]

Well..They were alot better by then!

[@milfordcivic6755]

FYI - The Riviera wasn't front wheel drive until 1979. The Eldorado and Toronado have always been FWD from the start in 1966/67.

[@autochatter]

Yes...Someone caught that boo boo on my part not long after I uploaded it!

[@95blahblahhaha]

Amazing how much better we've gotten at badge engineering today even though we still do it just as much, if not even more.

[@autochatter]

Oh...More now for sure. But like you said, it's not as blatant as back then. Especially when the Celebrity and friends dropped.

[@doug6191]

We don't see anywhere near the amount of badge engineering today. Not remotely true.

[@autochatter]

@@doug6191 I think we do in the sense of platform and drivetrain sharing across several models. They just do a much better job changing more than a grille,badges,and calling it a day. It used to be ALOT more obvious.

[@95blahblahhaha]

@@doug6191 @autochatter is right. I think it might be worse now than ever but they've just got A LOT better at disguising them. Which I think is fine as long as there truly is a BIG DIFFERENCE. I don't think we'll ever see another Cadillac Cimarron tho 🤞🏼🤞

[@doug6191]

@95blahblahhaha Nope. The phrase "badge engineering" was originally coined to describe lazy effort to sell one model across multiple brands with no meaningful change. Essentially, you can simply change the badge and *voila* it's a different car. Examples include Omni/Horizon, the Dustbuster vans, the Ford Courier/Mazda B Series, the S10/Sonoma, etc. The body panels are identical from one to the other. THAT is badge engineering. Today, people bastardize the phrase to apply to platform sharing. People like to say things such as, "An Audi TT is just a badge engineered VW Golf." Or the same about a Camry and ES300, or the Trailblazer and its many counterparts... You can't simply take the fender off one and put it on the other. They each have distinct interiors. Some have exclusive use of particular features or powertrains. Platform sharing is not badge engineering. We see badge engineering FAR less than ever.

[@johnnymason2460]

The X-cars were the most recalled cars in General Motors history. The A-body cars(which were stretched versions of the X-cars) actually were better cars. The Pontiac 6000STE was the best version of the A-body platform ever. I want one with the standard antilock brakes, V6, AWD, and automatic transmission.

[@autochatter]

I agree. A bodies was a huge leap forward. Best 6000s were the LE.....Because then you could call it a "Gooley" LOL.

[@ericwhitehead6451]

I believe the GM X bodies passed the Chrysler F bodies in recalls. A dubious honer for sure.

[@autochatter]

I believe your right.

[@benmoore2734]

I had a 1984 Chevy Citation with the four cylinder engine. It was a white exterior with a blue interior. I had the steering rack replaced due to a fault with turning the wheel. I replaced the vertical head unit with an Alpine head unit mounted vertical. Unusual to say the least but it worked. The electrical system had its own issues as well as getting vapor lock with the fuel injection system. I had a lot of GOOD memories in that car because of all the room available in the back! Anyway, I went to pick up my brand new 1992 Eagle Talon TSi and the Citation blew a head gasket after turning on the AC. So, I had to fork over $500 to get the engine fixed as it was the family vehicle at the time. Overall, it was a pretty good vehicle at the time. Btw, I think the hp rating for that year’s four cylinder was 90 hp.

[@autochatter]

Makes sense on the Hp number as I think a 84 Fiero...Which also had a fuel injected Iron Duke then, was like 92? Talon TSi? Those were fun.

[@brettcannon74]

Seen a citation 5door driving today in Dallas!

[@autochatter]

Wow!! Happens like that sometimes. I saw a Mera not long after I did my Fiero vid. The ones that looked like a Ferrari?

[@landyachtfan79]

The GM X-cars will always be one of those car lines that REALLY frustrates me. They had all of the ingredients to be the best cars ever built, & that is exactly what they could & should have been. Ultimately, I feel that the X-cars' undoing was not really the cars THEMSELVES, but the company who built them, late-'70's/early '80's GM. As was the case with Ford & Chrysler, they became too focused on beating the European & Japanese competition at their own game & not focused ENOUGH on providing the American car-buying public with viable alternatives to the imports. As a result, quality & reliability were allowed to fall by the wayside.

[@autochatter]

Excellent post!

[@rolandledesma-de7qd]

My mother had a used 85 four door Citation. She nicknamed it Droopy. lol😂

[@autochatter]

Lol..Thats funny!

[@andregonsalvez9244]

Great review 😊 ! I hope you also do a segment on the GM A body cars which were new and improved X body cars .

[@autochatter]

Thank you! Definately doing A Bodies!

[@scottwagner3214]

Minor correction to the video: Buick Rivieras were RWD, not FWD, prior to 1979, even though it shared its E-Body platform with Toronado and Eldorado.

[@autochatter]

Yes. .I put up a wrong year Riviera there sorry!

[@DavidCormier-er7em]

You forgot one model that used that chassis. It is said that the Pontiac Fiero was just the front clip of the Phoenix moved to the back. So the Fiero shared the chassis and suspension geometry from a part of that chassis I guess. Just a thought.

[@autochatter]

I actually discussed that in my Fiero video! Pontiac used the front suspension and drivetrain from a X car but put in the back. The front suspension and steering setup was basically from a Chevette. The platform the Fiero itself rode on was unique to the car. It was a "space frame" . I liked that vid ,but it didn't get as many views as I hoped.

[@s99614]

We never had any of these issues with our V6 Citation, except for the carburetor.

[@autochatter]

As they say....Your mileage may vary LOL.

[@OLDS98]

Interesting. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for the effort placed into this video. The footage was quite good as well and the photos and videos. You have put a great deal of effort into this video. I liked how you mention what was on the market before and what came after and the long term impact the X Body had. I liked how you backed up what you were saying with photos and footage. I know the A Bodies and N Bodies were came after when they learned from their mistakes. I wonder if that had been successful what would GM had offered to the market. Just a thought.

[@autochatter]

Thank you Olds! I think mentioning what came before and after is important. So is competitors here and there. Just makes for a clearer picture LOL. It's hard to speculate now just how much better GM would be if the X Cars rolled out with far fewer problems. Would they have 1 percent more of the U..S. market today or 20 more?

[@OLDS98]

@@autochatter It may have changed the direction GM took. Who knows. You can see how Omega foretold the look of the Calais. I know the N Bodies were supposed to be the new G Bodies because of the fuel crisis that did not come until later. Things changed there as the G Bodies became the W Bodies. The A Bodies then were in the same position as the X Bodies by the late 1980's early 1990's. Two of them were sold well into 1996 model year. The C and H Bodies looked like their look was taken from the A Bodies. They were too small and got right sized in the early 1990's. It can get confusing. The industry was changing and it was an adjustment.

[@autochatter]

@OLDS98 A bodies were really over staying their welcome by the mid 90s yeah! Lots of them parked outside the Senior Center!

[@kwaza8574]

I agree. Taking a trip to Africa (Ghana), and first seeing a Opel Astra, I first thought, Chevy Citation.

[@autochatter]

Well GM owned Opel too, so I guess they can't say they copied it. The picture I showed was actually a Chrysler of Europe model.

[@kwaza8574]

That’s the first thing you notice from the B-pillar down to the hatchback end. It’s the same.

[@doug6191]

I'm amazed how many were sold in the first year, though that was a long sales year.

[@autochatter]

Even taking that into account, it was a bunch of X cars. I think if the second oil crisis didn't happen, the sales would not have been as dramatic.

[@jimbartalone2766]

First year sales figures are artificially inflated since the cars were introduced in April of 79, five months ahead of the normal introduction time of September.

[@autochatter]

Yes...I did make mention that it was a long model year. That and the Oil Crisis was a perfect storm for fantastic single model year sales IMO.

[@adamsmith9636]

The burgundy X11 was my favorite . should have bought that on BAT a few months ago

[@autochatter]

Yeah that one was pretty! How many can there be in that condition left?

[@chrismunro3624]

My very first car was a used 1980 Citation with the exact same interior as the one at 8:51 in this video with the exception that mine was a 4 speed manual. I bought it the day I turned 16 in 1982. What a piece of junk. If I filled up the gas tank, I had to leave to gas cap loose for a bit or it wouldn’t run. It had a leak in the exhaust and it backfired with every gear change. The amber turn signals in the rear lit up with the brake lights. As much as I hated that car, I’d love to drive it again one more time.

[@autochatter]

Sounds like it had alot of "character" lol

[@chrismunro3624]

@@autochatter I’m thoroughly enjoying your channel. I grew up outside of Detroit and my parents both worked at Pontiac. I’ve had the pleasure of experiencing MANY of the cars you talk about. Keep up the good work. 👍

[@autochatter]

@chrismunro3624 I appreciate that! Just trying to make some car history...but sometimes getting a little silly. My subscriber count has gone up quite a bit in the last month, so I'm hoping some of my non award winning older titles get some love. Why isn't anyone watching the VW bus one???? Maybe your folks built the 96 Sunfire GT my Mom bought new....Or Dads 78 Sunbird.

[@doug6191]

19:39 - I don't know that GM deserves grace for "rapidly" adjusting. As I understand it, the first embargo of '73 is when X car development began. They had seven years to introduce such a troubled vehicle. They knew FWD...they knew compact... A compact FWD wasn't a revelation for them. So, to me, the resulting product is entirely GM's lack of effort. That...and their workforce's lack of give-a-damn...is why the X Cars got such a deservedly bad reputation.

[@autochatter]

I dont think their R&D was bad on paper. It was the execution that was a train wreck. The different Divisions in fighting, low morale in the factories, rushing real world testing to put out product, and other issues. The J and A bodies launched just a few years later, and were night and day better in comparison. I am not one to give GM a pass..Ive been harsh in other vids on some of their cars..So much so, I wondered if I was being too mean. The X Cars deserve criticism, but I was just trying to point out they learned somthing from the ordeal. Unfortunate that it was the public that bought them had to be their test subjects. I'm certain and have met people that NEVER bought a car from GM again because of X Cars.

[@generaloranger6150]

None of them here has a working rear drum brake.

[@autochatter]

I know the brakes was a problem with these, but I didn't go into much detail about it. There was so many issues, especially early on with the X cars.

[@new2000car]

My understanding of the rear brake problem is that it was a forced error, some bureaucrats forced the engineers, at the last minute, to relocate/reengineer the emergency brake from a handbrake to a foot brake. The foot brake system that resulted was near impossible to depress, so they changed the brake lining material so it would stick better, but at the cost of dangerous sudden unexpected rear brake lockup in snow. If I am right, those bureaucrats’ arrogance cost people their lives.

[@autochatter]

@new2000car I know the NHTSA was investigating brake issues and other parts like proportioning valves were changed on future versions.

[@doug6191]

wow. thanks for sharing this well-known detail about the car. anything else we all already knew?🙄

[@autochatter]

@@doug6191 There was just so much! I figured the comments would elaborate on more specifics.

[@markcollins457]

I bought a new Citation X11 and was so happy to have the only one in the area. After about 11mo. As a daily i had numerous issues that left me stranded and the dash board shaking at a stop light was the final straw. The car was supposed to be a trend setter but they didn't live up to the hype.

[@autochatter]

I know I've read comments about some people that had good service with them. I was in High School in the later 80s and early 90s...The school parking lot had 4 cylinder Mustangs,Chevettes, Cavaliers,Toyota/Datsun trucks,Tercels,and even a AMC Gremlin or two. No one had a Citation or any other of the similar models. I knew someone's Mom with a Phoenix and a Senior Neighbor with a Citation. These things would have been 5 to 10 years old then, so you would think prime High School cars. They just all seemed to disappear quickly.

[@HC-cb4yp]

18:59 Did that generation of Skylark end in 1995? You sure it wasn't 1985?

[@autochatter]

I thought I said 1985. I go on to say the Skylark was all new for 86.

[@Boosted0ne]

People knock the Pinto. I had 2 Pintos. They would run circles around those crappy early 80's cars.

[@autochatter]

The Pinto wasn't bad. I think I gave it a fair shake when I did my vid on one recently.

[@new2000car]

The Pinto was a very reliable American small car (proven engine, proven RWD platform), the Chevette was good too (in reliability and price only). I was looking up base msrps on the 1970 Maverick, and the 1971 Pinto, and it was $1,995 for the Maverick, and $1,919 for the Pinto, a difference of $76, which would be about $572 today. To me the Maverick was twice the car for only 3% more. I guess if every penny counted, and you didn't care about cars much, and wanted to save a little more on gas, that's why you'd choose the Pinto. Me, I would beg borrow or steal the extra money to get a faster, bigger new car. Sorry Autochatter that we're going off topic so much. Talking about how GM botched the X car can be depressing. I still love the X-11.

[@autochatter]

@@new2000car LOL...No by all means, leave a comment about a Hyundai here if you want! The Maverick was neat too..Falcon based. At one time I wanted a Grabber one! Good friend of mine had a 73 green regular one with a inline 6.

[@Boosted0ne]

@@new2000car Oh yeah Chevettes had their place and did it. I'm going to be the odd guy here. My Dad had Gremlins those cars were great...Levi interior. I loved my 84 AMC Eagle wagon wood panels and all. Someone has to like the odd cars too. :D

[@lkmsl]

Buick riviera was not front wheel drive until 79 !

[@autochatter]

Your right! For some reason I was thinking they were back then too. Shared platform, but RWD unlike the other two? Less muscle memory...More reading a book beforehand!

[@ericwhitehead6451]

@@autochatter Yes, the Riviera, Toronado and Eldorado shared the same platform.

[@anthonyrivera4735]

Which one is your favorite?

[@autochatter]

A 81 and newer Citation X-11. You?

[@anthonyrivera4735]

@@autochatterPontiac Phoenix.

[@autochatter]

@anthonyrivera0917 Some of the other Divisions sporty 2 door sedan ones looked kinda cool..Like that yellow Oldsmobile one.

[@shnorth888]

​@@autochatter I always like the look of the Oldsmobile Sport Omega. The white over dark gray with the orange and red stripes looked really nice. Too bad these cars were problematic. At least GM did work out most of tge issues but by that time the damage was done to the X cars reputation.

[@kippaseo8027]

I'm 44 so I was little when these cars we're on the road but I honestly thought that the chevy citation was just a big chevy chavette until very recently. Even as a little ki loved cars and would impress anyone with my ability to identify any car that was pointed out but I wonder how many times I referred the citation as a Chevette? When I was a little kid in the late 1980s My friend across the streets dad had a 2 toldsmobile omega who is always complaining complaining about about it rusting. That was weird considering the car spent its entire life here in Miami Beach records even then didn't seeinterest very much especially after only being 4 years old. I remember that was the first time hearing the term rust bucket thrown around. He traded it in for a brandu 88 Pontiac grand am. It wasn't very reliable though because that wouldn't earn cute nickname the grand damn it. My parents drove Toyota's so I didn't know anything about cars being unreliable

[@autochatter]

Your in Miami? I'm in Palm Beach County!

[@kc0lif]

Phoenix & citation different from omega & skylark.

[@autochatter]

They both had 4 door sedans the Chevy and Pontiac didn't. I think the coupe versions were similar to the Pontiac one. Mechanically they were all similar but the Buick and Olds versions were nicer inside.

[@raymond_sycamore]

lol the europeans made a car called a BETA! Can't make it up!

[@autochatter]

I think the Japanese has everyone beat. Daihatsu Naked, Honda Life Dunk, and Nissan Horny Super Long to name a few!

[@raymond_sycamore]

@@autochatter Alright I'm going to need a Horny Super Long in my life.