Pro-natalists and the ‘Under-Population’ Conspiracy: A Deep Dive

[@aronm5329]

Unfortunately in japan women don't take even close to thier guaranteed maternity leave. They would be fired within a month

[@AprezaRenaldy]

😂 the true is hard

[@peachesandcream22]

Japanese women are forced either to leave their jobs and be housewives or to work with no children. There are literally companies who set years for each female employee when they're "allowed" to have a child. It's so awful.

[@kekkomoshenji7966]

I was talking about this with my mom and she too made the social Darwinism angle on this one which heavily disappointed me. Cause I feel like most of the time I bring up this issue the solution proposed is either just trust in capitalism or that the “good/more fit” people will survive and the “bad/less fit” people will die out which doesn’t exactly seem like an ideal scenario. Like, I do think the main issue is just human got resources but there are a lot of humans and humans are really shitty at using resources efficiently and distributing them evenly. Like the overpopulation argument is definitely somewhat compelling though I think that we should be finding ways to invest in existing people (switching to more sustainable economic systems as you mentioned on the video) while setting up for a future where people will have the choice to have children or not without it being ultra costly or being shamed for it.

[@skylinefever]

I just say when some fool asks me to hold his beer and watch, I will hold the beer. Darwin Awards are needed to limit the Idiocracy.

[@LordMagiru]

All evolutionary fitness comes down to the number of offspring's a life form manages to produce and everything else is secondary contributors towards that end. And it is true that those that don't have children are unfit while those that do are fit. As how that effects humans right now it is untrue that is directly linked to wealth as the wealthy aren't having any more children than less wealthy people and most of them, in the west at least, seem to belong to the culture group that seems less fit while the culture groups that have the most fitness regardless of wealth tend to be insular, religious and extremely conservative.

[@sttrubie]

We have five children. We never thought about it. I was a teacher and my wife stayed home. Yes we struggled but we did it. All our kids got through university and are successfull adults. Its possible.

[@bluester7177]

It was possible, it's not as easy anymore, a lot of people are struggling to survive alone with their spouses.

[@rasmussonderriis]

"It's a way of saying someting without saying it".... "By saying this, they really mean that". Come on, get your argumentation together.

[@christianmiller9934]

Awwww is a racist mad

[@whitneym.9358]

"I don't need to put any effort into actually raising my kids because my superior genetics will ensure they grow up smart"

[@skylinefever]

It is why nature and nurture are needed. Good luck making Einsteins from the Idiocracy.

[@MossTunic]

my neglectful parents & step parents are all MAGA christofascists. i have six siblings & idk how many kids my stepmom has cuz i haven't talked to them in years thankfully. all but one of my 6 siblings talk to any if these parental figures happily but that's only cuz he got brainwashed enough. this checks out in such a painful personal way.

[@ErutaniaRose]

@@skylinefeverFor real.

[@mynameisreallycool1]

It also sounds extremely narcissistic too. "My superior genes" "I know my kids are smart because I made them."

[@LondonMoneyCashEnterprise]

I won’t lie there’s some truth in it. Idk if it’s “genetics” but u have to admit some children are way way easier to raise than others

[@rudetuesday]

I am fascinated by how much pro-natalists dislike people. Thank you for talking about this issue. I need to invest in a blood-pressure monitor.

[@Korra228]

Yes and the irony in that is hilarious

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

Exactly, rudetuesday!

[@DanialTarki]

I’ve seen people call anti-natalists sociopaths rather than misguided or disillusioned, so I believe you.

[@lindsay1375]

23:31 Hm. ok. So they want to have **at least** 7 children to "repopulate" and "help the world," but then the moment any of her newborn babies are born - she is so "bored out of her mind when stuck with a newborn," that she would rather find ways to work from the hospital than interact with her own child. Those poor kids are going to need so much therapy.

[@lindsay1375]

She doesn't believe in maternity leave (and instead supports childcare/moms working from home)- because she herself has never wanted to interact too much with her own kids.

[@deno9607]

You need to get off the drugs.

[@whitneym.9358]

@@lindsay1375 They probably are going to expect the older children to "help out" a lot with taking care of the younger ones.

[@lindsay1375]

@whitneym.9358 I'm kinda curious to know at what age will they all be "old enough" to have their own rooms. Or at the very least I hope they have the wisdom to give their daughter(s) their own room separate from their sons before they go through puberty.

[@blueberrydragon5160]

The kids are gonna be fiiiiiiiine /s

[@grandsome1]

The Collins look like mad scientists running an unethical social experiment with their children.

[@viridianacortes9642]

SPOILERS for the Fallout Games/Show: They’re literally like the villains who created the underground vaults in Fallout tv show/games. They killed Eveyone with the atomic bombs and planned to repopulate the world with “better” people who so happened to be their descendants. These people are delulu and dangerous.

[@dplj4428]

Watch the pro natalist conference where they are guest speakers and decide for yourselves.

[@gregorian1493]

You need to watch their videos yourself, they hang out with pronstslists who are catholics, atheists Muslims, general Christians etc and aren't really bothered with who is reproducing only as lkng as they do. They say that the birth rates are generally worse among non white nations and ethnicities (which is actually true) so the notion they are engaging in white nationalist conspiracy isn't the case. They also support trans people and are both by most definitions queer themselves, so I think it's unfair to judge them without seeing their content first

[@maniswil2]

You really shouldn't judge peoples' looks and pretend like it's anything of value other then you having a defensive posture about them and pretending to be superior.

[@grandsome1]

@@maniswil2 except they're litteraly running an unethical social experiment with their children. Sometimes the book cover is accurate advertising.

[@TonyMidyett]

When we Commoners stop pumping out new worker drones, The Masters of Mankind get nervous. 🙄

[@SimoneandMalcolm]

Just a heads up: Demographic collapse isn't a problem for rich people; it's the most vulnerable people in society that get hurt when pension funds collapse, social services disappear, and infrastructure crumbles. The rich will retreat to their walled gardens and rely on AI to do what the proletariat once did. Those who are fighting for raised awareness about demographic collapse are trying to avert the suffering of those with the fewest resources, not the most.

[@gapsule2326]

​@@SimoneandMalcolmevery problem hurts the most vulnerable the most...

[@petervizzini4006]

You just get replaced

[@07Flash11MRC]

@Simone : Have you ever noticed that vulnerable people have already been hurting no matter how many people there are on this planet? Besides, it takes at least 6 people to finance the pension of one person. You do the math. Cap...ita...lism is unsustainable.

[@petervizzini4006]

@@07Flash11MRC None of the enlightenment ideals are sustainable

[@dereineschwarzerabe]

The problem with parents who clearly need therapy is that to them, having children is their "therapy". When I say that, I mean these are the kind of people believe or have been led to believe that children will fix all of their problem and will help with their character growth. It's something I see often in discussions with people who don't want children, when someone states they don't think they would be a good parents, there's always going to be comments about how having a child will change you and better you. While it is true children CAN be a big improvement in someone's life, it is unfair towards the child and can put them at danger when the parent has unresolved mental health issues.

[@ruffethereal1904]

I have a friend who became the family therapist with an older sister and mother dealing with serious mental issues and a less than stellar father. She seems mostly fine but the things I hear she lets slip like being 7 and hearing her sister constantly express her darkest thoughts repeatedly makes me worry for her.

[@jerrimenard3092]

I grew up Mormon, so I saw this on full display. If you want to know what it leads to, go look up 8 passengers or Daybell Vallow murders.

[@skylinefever]

They need therapy that actually works. So much of the stuff from psychology incorporated is just motivational coach propaganda or gaslighting. I often said I'd rather receive the nutcracker than get cbt from therapy.

[@krizismenya2171]

​@@skylinefever honestly yes

[@Jennifer-my5dm]

I expect a lot of "Mommy and Daddy Dearest" books once the Collins kids grow up.

[@iamjustkiwi]

From the perspective of a (step)parent I'll throw out a few easy reasons people aren't having kids. 1: Lets be honest, having kids often sucks. It's hard enough dealing with your own daily struggles without adding in the needs of an entire other person or multiple people and right now folks are already stretched thin, which leads to... 2: Who right now can afford to have kids at least here in America? We're a family of 4 who own a home (that was given to us due to generational wealth) which we only need to pay taxes on, and with one of us on disability and the other working full time, we both barely can afford to keep ourselves fed and clothed. I can't imagine what its like to be in this situation with the risk of eviction hanging over us. 3: What are we supposed to share with our kids to aspire to in the future? My generation was given a lot of false promises about the future so we won't blow smoke up our kid's butts about an amazing, hopeful future. Things look bleak and the best we can offer them is they'll always have a home to come to should things go bad once they move out. I think too many parents fail their kids by creating unrealistic expectations of what the real world is actually like, and besides kids now have access to the worlds information, they can SEE how bad it is out there. I might be a bit cynical but I try to stay realistic, and I have never encouraged people to have kids. If the people in power want folks to reproduce, maybe give them a world they feel good about the future of?

[@user-ci2fd8vc2f]

What you said is only partially true. The people with the “bleakest” futures seem to reproduce more. Here are the real reasons: 1. Skilled labor economies. African countries reproduce more because they have agricultural economies and children can help with farmwork. Skilled labor takes years of education and children usually cant help with that. 2. Urbanization and loss of community. Even in african countries like Kenya, the birth rates are falling to to urbanization. Talented people leave their communities for a better life in the city, where they spend most of their time working. Those communities that they left behind could be poor af and would still have higher birthrates because they arent expected to meet people through “innovative” shitty dating apps and childcare is baked into daily life.

[@AlexCab_49]

Who san afford kids here in America? Idk maybe ask immigrants who have kids and work in jobs that pay less than 30K a year how they do it. I want kids and I wouldn't mind raising them in an apartment and I understand that raising children isn't for everyone

[@Mario_Angel_Medina]

I always remember an article I read somewhere that said "the main thing that motivates people to have children, even when they are in a bad situation in therms of economics, is hope in the future. The fact that Millenials are having fewer children than the previous generations is not only an indicator that things are bad _right now,_ but also that a lot of young people today don't believe thing will ever improve"

[@baronvonjo1929]

I doubt Ill ever have kids but I find it strange how today we find the fear of the future a big enough reason to not have kids while millions of people in history kept having kids. Think about it. They had no idea if the mother would even survive childbirth or if the kid would. Never knew is the harvest would go bad, bad weather, famine, plague, war. All while having pretty shoddy living standards and conditions. Yet they still kept pumping kids out. I realize they didn't have protection and all. I think today we are so stunned and overwhelmed by the internet. We have so much information, and we focus on the negatives that have also been there throughout history in one period or another. I believe having materialistic distractions helps us spend our time on that instead of kids and give us fulfilments. I'm not really saying all this is bad one way or another. But I do find it bizarre when people say the fear of a bad future is a reason to not have kids. I think it's a concern I would have to be fair. But it makes us modern humans look weak and pathetic.

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

"besides kids now have access to the worlds information, they can SEE how bad it is out there" YES. There's a lot more data out there nowadays. It is no longer possible to believe one's parents when they say everything's going to be alright, you just need to do your best at school and good things will come, the way I mistakenly did when I was in my teens.

[@eazydee5757]

If any birth rate decline in developed countries ever exists, I would say that the true cause is actually from the many side effects of capitalism itself. Capitalism promotes the relentless pursuit of profit and hyperindividualistic attitudes at the expense of actually contributing to the greater society at large. There are many factors at play here, including economic pressures, long working hours, and financial inequality which are often roots behind family conflict and instability, and also discourage people from having their own families. Most other “reasons” or “causes” are scapegoats promoted by the ruling class in order to divide the people and promote agendas and ideologies that lead to oppression of women, LGBTQ+, and ethnic, racial, or religious minorities.

[@KateeAngel]

Birth rates fall everywhere due to to fall of child mortality and because people aren't subsistence farmers anymore. But very extreme birth rate fall is surely due to capitalism (like in South Korea)

[@gregtaylor9806]

You’ve been reading your Bible.

[@DianaDonineaux]

@@KateeAngel Yes , this is the first reason . Before people could have 12 children and only have 4 surviving . It is rare I see people recognize that simple fact, they prefer to talk about capitalism and of course of the supreme evil feminism . And I would add in a world where children have more rights than ever even if they are still considered as inferior , you cannot exploit them as much , you have to pay for the school , the whole wardrobe , hobbies etc ...

[@arcanineryu]

Hyper individualism is fundamentally hostile to children rearing. Kids need community to develop properly

[@A0891BNAS]

bingo

[@hollywifi3154]

while i think it is important to discuss the problem of aging populations (im from the uk where our public health service is under huge pressure partially due to this issue), i think this problem just shows how far weve progressed as a society in terms of better healthcare and reproductive rights etc.. it should NOT be used as an excuse to promote misogyny and racism.

[@henrytep8884]

Better healthcare but worse preventative care(we live more unhealthy lives). Reproductive rights are great though, but can be taken away if people actually don’t care about their rights, just like in the USA.

[@angelgomezramos1015]

Agreed, the low fertility reveal the high tedency to the violence, that always was there.

[@dumyjobby]

​@@angelgomezramos1015it's actually the opposite, high violence against women also has high fertility

[@angelgomezramos1015]

@@dumyjobby So, Have men must back to that violence? Because I think that is the reason why there is low fertility in the first place.

[@frenzybuzz3703]

In the countries where TFR is high women are frced into marriages. Bro I live in South Asia I can attest to this...​@@angelgomezramos1015

[@caramazzola2399]

The pronatalist lady with the glasses is such a cartoon villain lmao

[@TheYasmineFlower]

Honestly, I think her husband is the real problem. He strikes me as your run-of-the-mill abusive husband who controls his wife and children through his belief system. I mean, they're going to have as many babies as possible, each born via c-section, until her uterus ruptures. A sane husband would stop that shit because uterine ruptures are no joke and can lead to death.

[@ErutaniaRose]

@@TheYasmineFlower Truuuuueee. Tho her spewing BS to others is still bad and something she would need to learn to stop.

[@harpsdesire4200]

​@@TheYasmineFlowerwhy are women so quick to call any man they don't like an abuser? How the heck do you even define abuse?? Oh no he has politics you don't like and has a wife he must abuse her! You do realize that conservative women DO exist right? They may be few and far between, especially in the western world but they do exist. If a conservative man finds a woman who shares his beliefs... Why do you care?

[@harpsdesire4200]

​@@TheYasmineFlower​​@TheYasmineFlower why are women so quick to call any man they don't like an abu. ser? How the heck do you even define ab. use?? Oh no he has politics you don't like and has a wife he must abus. e her! You do realize that conservative women DO exist right? They may be few and far between, especially in the western world but they do exist. If a conservative man finds a woman who shares his beliefs... Why do you care?

[@harpsdesire4200]

​​@TheYasmineFlower why are women so quick to call any man they don't like an @buser? How the heck do you even define @buse?? Oh no he has politics you don't like and has a wife he must @buse her! You do realize that conservative women DO exist right? They may be few and far between, but they do exist.

[@AtomikNY]

I just want to point out that the couple named their kids Octavian (a Roman emperor), Torsten (="Thor's stone"), and Titan Invictus (combining two beings from Roman mythology). Combined with their pro-natalism, that's giving some...vibes. You know?

[@Guillhez]

what vibes? state your case

[@chestnutters9504]

They are really cool people in person

[@con-la-nota-verde]

@@Guillhez​​⁠​⁠What they’re saying is that within the context of the Collins family being pro-natalists, them naming their children after the Romans and Nordics specifically might whistle some bells. Why? Because there is an overlap between white supremacists and pro-natalists. There’s nothing wrong with liking Roman or Nordic culture at all, the issue is that some people (white supremacists) have co-opted those cultures to push their own agendas, often under the guise of wanting to go back when things were “civilized” and less “woke”. Essentially putting those cultures on a pedestal to use in comparison to modern day Western civilization that in their eyes, has fallen. I’m not saying that the Collins family are neo-nazis/racist/white supremacists or anything like that since that’s a heavy accusation to throw at strangers on the internet. What I AM saying is that within the context of their views, I understand why people might think that they MIGHT lean that way. Personally, I think that they feel dystopian, but that’s my opinion.

[@con-la-nota-verde]

⁠@@exyl_soundsI understand what you mean that global birth rates in non-white countries are dropping too, so it’s not just an exclusively white thing. South Korea and Japan are well known for their declining birth rate, and I’m sure that Mexico (where my family is from) likely also has a declining birth rate. I think it’s reductionist to say that all pro-natalists are white supremacists, that’s making a blanket statement. I do think that there are good intentions (because at the end of the day, everyone should strive to make the world a better place for their children), I just worry that the pro-natalist movement will be co-opted by people with nefarious intent. In a perfect world, people would have children and love them and raise them to be productive members of society. However, with the economy and the state of the world, that seems difficult. As for the effects of pro-natalism, it’s much too soon to tell.

[@KateeAngel]

​@@exyl_sounds there is no uniform African or European heritage. These two buggers are taking things from cultures they are not from and which they understand only on superficial level. Honestly, most white Americans understanding of Ancient Rome or viking age Norsemen is on the level of caricature. Also naming kids after Roman emperors surely stinks of arrogance and narcissism

[@CthulhusBFF2]

Sounds like the Collins are producing the tech bro equivalent of feral children

[@pierregibson6699]

Super villain origin story

[@Mario_Angel_Medina]

Their logic probably is "well, Elroy Musk threated his offspring like trash all their childhoods and Elon still became one of the richest men on Earth so nurturing can't be _that_ important"

[@whitneyanders5945]

The guy in the relationship thinks children should be trained like dogs. That’s why he slapped his kid in the face seconds after it did something bad. He stated that when a puppy makes a mess on the floor, you instantly rub its face in it to teach it a lesson, so applies the same logic to child rearing. These two are nuts. They can’t even be in the same room together. Why are the most insane parents the ones getting all the air time and money from the gullible public? It’s sickening. These people are not wise, they are bonkers.

[@Mario_Angel_Medina]

@@whitneyanders5945 they say they want to save humanity but they treat their own children (that they pretty much told us are superior to most people currently alive on Earth) like if they where subhuman. I don't like to compare the real world to fiction but that's supervillain behavior, and not even "complex well-written supervillain" behavior

[@TonyHalle]

Billionaire ceos: I need this many people working in my factory or else I won't be able to keep exponentially gaining wealth!! We're underpopulated!!

[@SimoneandMalcolm]

This is a common misconception so we'd love to address it. This is genuinely not the problem-one thing we keep saying is that AI is the ultimate force that frees the bourgeoise from the proletariat. Pronatalists who are wealthy (and not) don't care about spamming the world with people; they just happen to be among those (unfairly or otherwise) who have the luxury of modeling out long-term futures and they're concerned about how the future will play out, especially for the most vulnerable in society, if we have a hard landing on demographic collapse.

[@asmodiusjones9563]

@@SimoneandMalcolmYou have an extremely uphill battle convincing me that pronatalists care about the most vulnerable. True, long-term models show in some instances population “collapse” and others show a mere leveling out, but I have never seen a rational argument about why a population reduction results in some sort of disaster for the average person. It may result in the end of capitalism, but that will only harm the ultra-wealthy who require constant growth. I’ve also never seen a pronatalist position on what the target population should be (except “more”). In 1927, the world population was 1 billion, but no one was running around worried that the planet was underpopulated. If the population really went down to less than a billion and we needed more people, humans would replace them all in like two generations. I am an American in my 40s with two kids. Until we make a society where my long-term healthcare plan isn’t to Cobain myself the minute I get sick so I don’t have to drain my savings and can pass on some assets to my kids, people aren’t going to have more kids.

[@jistelle3797]

@@SimoneandMalcolm You guys are full of bullshit. Keep coping with pointlessly shitting out more crotch goblins for this materialist meat grinder of a "society," Archon-style.

[@akamal92]

​@@SimoneandMalcolmoh hey, the village idiots are here

[@samf.s.7731]

That's literally it. This is it.

[@nathanyou1899]

effective altruism is literally just trickle down economics for people who think Rick and Morty is deep.

[@therearenoshortcuts9868]

effective altruism? or effective autism?

[@nathanyou1899]

@@therearenoshortcuts9868 This is local autistic person asking "what the fuck are you talking about?"

[@kat4923]

​@@therearenoshortcuts9868 lol, as an autistic person I would've liked to have some effective autism, instead of the regular one

[@IzzenArt]

​@@therearenoshortcuts9868it's the most beautiful new made up word I've seen... Aulturism. Magnificent.

[@amandasutton3717]

I need to go to the hospital for this burn 😅

[@magdalenaos8215]

Malcolm and Simone are so focused on stats and research when it comes to procreation but completely ignore research and stats when it comes to raising children. Ipads are proven to negatively impact the development of young children. Toddlers don't really need their own room, because they love to be around their parents, but older children, especially teens, will not be happy about this arrangement.

[@mollyt6835]

As a parent, I agree 100%. I worry about Malcolm and Simone’s children. It seems like there are too many expectations put on these kids.

[@papi_sativa]

a. They look like brother and sister b. He look like an AI generated Steven Colbert & she look like an AI generated Elizabeth Holmes c. They look like an AI generated conservative lesbian couple

[@khadyadjisall5708]

😂😂

[@codyyancey6304]

So?

[@whitneyanders5945]

He is definitely giving off lesbian vibes.

[@soracaetano3781]

😂

[@Iam_Celene]

I haven’t even watched the full video but words can’t describe how great it is someone is finally talking about this

[@Iwwilolnatchu]

I means there is discussions everywhere about this subject, but yeah.

[@TheDraxton]

What an amazing video! Two points: The largest population cohort in the U.S, the baby boomers, were prophesied to be taking out the majority of stock market funds as they draw down 401ks whereas they were feeding into those same investment vehicles during their working years. Since 2010 the S&P 500 has only skyrocketed. I think that's an incredibly interesting point and it makes me wonder what has been fueling stock market growth specifically in the post 2008 and COVID eras. Children are one of the most under served communities in the U.S (get in line, right?). A child DESERVES, BY MERE FACT OF EXISTENCE, at least two secure attachments and ideally 3+, as you suggest in the video. It's a miracle if a kid gets at least one secure attachment and that's not talking about any form of abuse, which is rampant. The biggest message of this video really is at the end- some of the biggest changes you can make in the world are to just show up responsibly for a child, to hold space for them as they are without quick resorts to judgements and punishment. Healthy child rearing really is at the crux of all this.

[@kated3165]

Everytime conservative families get in the spotlight for how "happy and wonderful" their family is, you know some dark terrible stuff is bound to soon be uncovered about how things REALLY were like behind closed doors...

[@Jennifer-my5dm]

Like the Duggars.

[@83shaunam]

​@@Jennifer-my5dmand the Franke family. Don't get me wrong, I think the duggars are awful but ruby franke really cranked the insanity up about 10 notches.

[@Jennifer-my5dm]

@@83shaunam Truth.

[@JustMe-oo3wm]

The Duggars come to mind.

[@godofdeath8785]

Facts. If family conservative and religious here always something wrong.

[@radish1662]

Those kids look miserable in every photo

[@coolchameleon21]

im honestly really heartbroken for them. it’s disgusting what they’re doing to those innocent children

[@BS-bd4xo]

I'm not the smartest guy on this topic, but how I see it is that we should care less about how many of us there are and more about the quality of life for the ppl that we have now. Great video cuz I rarely hear ppl talking about this on the left.

[@coolchameleon21]

exactly. how about let’s focus on making life good for the people who are already here instead of cramming more people into the world to live a subpar/crappy life

[@colorsofdoom]

You want bigger families start by include giving people better wages, more free time, and accessible family homes in your policies :)

[@panstromek]

This has been tried by many countries and it doesn't work. In fact it's the opposite. Income is negatively correlated with having children. (The proposed explanation is higher opportunity cost).

[@sameraiza5767]

The African Birthrates are actively collapsing, immigration is a bandaid which won't solve the problem. The Average TFR of an African Country has halved from 7 to 4.5 Latin America has Recently fallen below replacement The Caribbean is falling below replacement Asia outside of Mongolia and khazakstan

[@keyboarddancers7751]

Thank you! This video is myopically focused on the demographic trajectories of Europe and North America.

[@skylinefever]

@@keyboarddancers7751 Indeed. It also tries to avoid how many parts of east Asia both do not have many kids and do not have much migration.

[@bluester7177]

​​@@keyboarddancers7751it is myopic because people outside of Europe and North America excluding Mexico, don't matter in this conversation, because these people (pro-natalists) care about white people birth rate. Also, it's irrelevant because we are not going extinct because people who had 5 kids now have 2, people are always going to have children.

[@sailorpsyop]

one of the things that grinds my gears with the pro-natalist stuff is the whole "what about the elderly!" line. like... is anyone taking stock of how elderly people are being treated *right now*? if what's being said is true, that we don't have enough workers to take care of them, why is the solution to produce more bodies and not, oh idk, to figure out why there aren't more from the people who already exist who are pursuing care work in the first place? (i wonder if the fact we live in an ableist society has anything to do with that 🤔🤔🤔.) and what about the people who want to do that work but financial pressures may push them to pursue something else? as you already implied in your video, catastrophizing about the future consequences is such a sly and unfortunately effective tactic at getting people to neglect the present circumstances of marginalized people. and it's supplemented by (a) the lack of intersectional analysis based on race, class, etc. and (b) the fact that the reporting highlighting inequities and the marginalization itself (like seeing it face-to-face) isn't made as visible as the dramatized potential consequences. yeah anyways, that's all to say this video got my brain going and gave me a lot to think about. this was a good analysis, and i also appreciate the community-oriented solutions you added at the end about what we can do, with the small amount of influence we have on an individual level, to best support children and parents. well done!

[@smashwombel]

I don't understand the point you're making. If you think the elderly are already treated badly, why would you expect their treatment to improve when there's more of them and less working age adults. Complete non-sequitur.

[@bluester7177]

​@@smashwombelbecause there isn't a lack of people to take care of them right now, there is a lack of incentives, many people would like to do this kind of work but they can't because they either can't get the education needed or they just need to work in more lucrative careers to survive, it's a problem of public policy that would not be solved by just adding more people to the workforce.

[@mbanerjee5889]

Not everyone is fit to be a parent. If you aren't willing to make a full time commitment to your kids, you shouldn't have kids.

[@hellokittybebop]

Well people seem to be taking that's advice. Which is good imo

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

@@hellokittybebop Not enough, as evidenced by the rise of ADHD and other conditions in children, caused mostly by negligent parenting.

[@theashwoodfaerie2]

​@@oldskoolmusicnostalgia ADHD is NOT caused by negligent parenting. It's a neurological disorder present from birth.

[@arsic094]

@@theashwoodfaerie2 It's a neurological disorder caused by permissive upbringing. Or at least this thing we call ADHD is. I'm not saying that present at birth type doesn't exist, but that majority of today's cases aren't that.

[@emily79519]

​@@arsic094And you know that how? How arrogant that you think you know more about ADHD than all the psychologists who study it

[@molls127]

that couple is so creepy looking.

[@MattEldritchHorror]

They look like the villains of a Blumhouse/A24 remake of The People Under the Stairs.

[@M4TCH3SM4L0N3]

They "served as the managing director of the world's most exclusive secret society"! What does that even mean? It's not a secret society if you can name it on your resume, and how would you even know if there aren't any more exclusive secret societies out there, since by definition THEY ARE SECRET: if you aren't in them, then you wouldn't know! My 3 year old has a more exclusive club than whatever theirs is: she won't even let ME join!

[@MarcosSantos-dj6lk]

they are super conservative and dress like they from the 40s creepy as hell

[@chestnutters9504]

You’re creepy

[@GIGADEV690]

They have a high IQ 😅

[@lmygreen5578]

I went on my own small deep dive on the Collinses recently, so glad you made a video on this!

[@83shaunam]

They are concerned with old people starving in the future but don't care about the children that are starving now. 🙄

[@83shaunam]

Also, I tried to listen to a podcast with the Malcom guy and he is obnoxious as hell. I listened for a full 45 minutes. Like, I really tried. He definitely seems like the type of person that would melt down completely if any of his kids are born less than perfect. Let's hope for their sake that they'll meet his standards. 🤮

[@animeotaku307]

@@83shaunamOr, better yet, they realize how shitty their upbringing was and put some distance between themselves and their parents.

[@jackzerr2548]

They never have Kids are future slaves

[@lunalu2174]

I find it impressive that the Collins think so highly of themselves while looking so unquestionably stupid.

[@aspyn.j_]

good lord the collinses look SO extremely punchable.

[@Guillhez]

wow, you sound so reasonable

[@christianmiller9934]

@@Guillhezwah wah wah cuckservative

[@henrytep8884]

The Collins are crazy. Feel bad for the kids of that family, this outcome is going to be highly deterministic due to the parents creating an environment for failure. But I absolutely wouldn’t call them liberal in any sense, that’s a big misframing of their position and belief.

[@CaptainPeregrin]

I worked for a year with an income tax assistance program (aimed at low-income communities), and knowing that the Child Tax Credit is part of a pro-natalist agenda makes SO MUCH SENSE. You need to have an SSN for every kid, and a lot of low-income parents don't know about the credit, or even forget the SSNs. It also requires that the parents do taxes, and that the kids have social security cards to begin with, which isn't a given for immigrant families

[@gregtaylor9806]

I think the intention with those ‘rules’ is that it is intended for the citizens and taxpayers of that specific country - as members of a coherent society (of which boundaries are implied). When you say there is a nefarious agenda at work because the tax credit won’t be received by people who don’t ‘do taxes’ that sounds (unintentionally?) funny. Every working adult is required to settle their taxes in modern society. Are any standards at all nefarious to you?

[@patio_daddio_69]

@@gregtaylor9806immigrants do pay taxes though

[@roxyamused]

@@gregtaylor9806 There's an interesting lack of class consciousness and understanding of the difficulties of migrant families (which I don't have that much depth on) in your comment. For one, the comment about taxes seems to ignore immigrant families who do pay taxes, don't often have social security cards, may not even be able to read the tax code (esl). Second, the lower working class contingency often is misinformed and undereducated working low-wage jobs that also eat up more time and opportunity. Because of this, many people don't actually file taxes because because they don't have to. Every working adult doesn't have to file taxes if you don't owe anything, which low income people generally do not, but in fact get a refund which they may not know they can get and may not also know that they qualify for income tax credits. Like it's an issue. In 2024, LA county left $500m refunded to low-income residents, simply because they didn't know there was an option. The IRS says over $1B wasn't refunded from 2020, simply because they didn't file. Why they didn't file is probably speculative, but it's pretty clear that education on the tax code and accessibility to that education is a main issue. Especially for low-income families which are more often than not, black and brown. There is a lot of nefariousness whether intentional or not within the system that leaves a lot of people behind. Hell, houseless people often don't have social security cards and IDs and there's a paywall to get them but then they're a requirement for many services. There's just a lot to your ignorance on this subject. That I've already wasted too much time on.

[@skylinefever]

@@roxyamused I loved when migrants were sent from red states to NYC and Chicago to put the "You red state people are racist" to the test.

[@peaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

@@roxyamusedyour comment is beautifully said and i hope everyone reads it

[@peachesandcream22]

I'm from Russia and there, politicians were sooo afraid of our demographic decline, so they introduced "maternal capital" to encourage women to make babies. First, this worked poorly and many women didn't receive any "maternal capital" at all. Second, a lot of addicties and poor marginals decided to exploit this by birthing as many children as possible to live on governmental money. They also received bonus for birthing more than 3 children, so it only encouraged them to birth children for money. And the thing is that pro-natalist policies already existed back in USSR. There was "childlessness tax", when ANYONE who had less than 3 kids or no kids at all had to pay tax for the government. My deceased grandparents had my mother and my uncle and they still had to pay tax because 2 kids didn't count as "enough". Of course, Soviet citizens hated this tax but they had no choice. Now, many Russian politicians (especially very religious ones, ahem) want this "childlessness tax" to come back. They also want to remove abortion from medical insurance policy. I don't have any stabile income and I have to live with my abusive mother, and these politicians want me to be a baby-making machine? Hell naw.

[@peachy_lili]

loved being lectured about IQ by people who don't know you can't raise a healthy kid by 'reorienting' it when it does things you don't like. big brain time.

[@tyronechillifoot5573]

So intelligent yet don’t get irony of eugenicist who needs glasses

[@saturationstation1446]

@@tyronechillifoot5573 remember when eugenicists existed solely from the work of their own bodies? oh yeah, thats never happened because europeans dont work and are allergic to being productive.. hence europe having the longest running least productive workforce in the history of the human species. yet somehow still lives the highest quality of life on earth.. hmmmm

[@ErutaniaRose]

If EVERYONE, every single person, didn’t have kids and then we all grew old and died, THEN it would be an actual issue. But we are not having that problem. The rich just want more wage slaves and don’t wanna let people they consider inferior have kids, kids are still being born even with less births. And while there are MANY more people in the global population than there were even 100 years ago, we aren’t overpopulated. We just live in a world where resources are being hoarded by the owner class while also being overproduced and thrown out to create false scarcity for the working class. UGH. The world!

[@alexbayer2365]

Wage slaves usually exist in Communistic Countries like North Korea. Look at the statistics

[@star-pn8qu]

100% agree with you

[@asmodiusjones9563]

In 1927 the world population was 1 billion, no one was running around despairing that the world was underpopulated. Humanity can work just fine with all kinds of population numbers.

[@ErutaniaRose]

@@asmodiusjones9563 Exactly.

[@preguicadetu]

"...while also being overproduced and thrown out..." a new day of me thinking, "why hasn't the human population been wiped out yet..."

[@Razorrrrrrrrrrrr]

There are 8 billion ppl on the earth , I think we are fine 😅

[@lkeke35]

I think so too, but the problem is that the people who don't believe we are fine think that the 7 billion non-white people are the problem. All that is required is for them to encourage immigration to their countries but they don't want poc, and global south people to become majorities in western nations. They're not concerned with the populations of other places like Japan. They are however concerned with majority white European nations having an influx of immigrant poc. I think in the coming years we are in for a major racial meltdown.

[@BunnyBoyMcGill]

The thing is that pro-natalists like these ones don't care about the population of humans growing. They only care that their race are not "replaced". Even though literally they have never been the largest demographic/race

[@pierregibson6699]

That part

[@phuck8627]

"but there's too many dark skins!!!"

[@henrytep8884]

@@Prof.RenanAraujoyou should volunteer

[@IVEaLOVE]

Dude, i can't help it. This couple is bizarre.

[@mitchellthegirl]

Thank you for bringing up the fact that pro-natalists, Quiverfull zealots, and the like seem to not even like their own children and are often abusive. It's so horrific, and it's an aspect most don't discuss. Children need liberation too. ❤️

[@animeotaku307]

The part that got me about the Collins is that they referenced Gattaca in their project. A movie that is about a society where those who don’t have ideal genes are barred from successful careers and are treated as second-class citizens, despite their actual capabilities. I guess media literacy isn’t something they value either.

[@onionfarmer3044]

You mean the movie where the guy with terrible genes still succeeded in his goal with the odds stacked against him.

[@Kyle-g5u]

​@@onionfarmer3044technically he had to break the law and cheat his way there though

[@onionfarmer3044]

@user-ey7mu2dz9c which was more work then those who followed the law and never needed to cheat.

[@Kyle-g5u]

@@onionfarmer3044 true, but the point of the post I think was to say that society should never get to that, not find ways around it if it does happen

[@Kyle-g5u]

@@onionfarmer3044 there's a silver lining in every cloud, doesn't mean we pray for rain

[@ladygrey4113]

5:42 but can they actually use it in the current Japanese work culture? Also fairly sure women have complained that they’re pushed out of the workforce when they have kids

[@izzaanimates9041]

Just because it’s written in law and written it policies doesn’t mean it’s actually enforced or guaranteed. Most women are fired from their job after 2 months, and the company finds a different reason/excuse to fire them as a loophole.

[@oreganothankyou]

If pronatalists care so much about kids, why don't they talk about funding education, eliminating global poverty and hunger, free universal healthcare and childcare, ending jenny-cide and imperialism, or ending gun violence?

[@BeachandHills-hb2pq]

Europe has those and birth rate is crashing lol. Your just making excuses for not wanting kids

[@BeachandHills-hb2pq]

Imperialism ended 50 years ago 3 generations 10 elections your leaders afe incompetent. Germany had 6 million dead every city rubble and came back and still hated

[@carkawalakhatulistiwa]

​@@BeachandHills-hb2pq how about ussr Times they brith rate 2.3

[@BeachandHills-hb2pq]

@@carkawalakhatulistiwa every Europe country has what the poster wanted. Still have bad fertility. As for ussr had this as well but had very bad periods of fertility. That wish list is a distraction from what is causing fertility crash. Look at the lives of our great grand parents and tell them you can’t have kids cause it’s to hard.

[@samwindmill8264]

​@BeachandHills-hb2pq no one should have to make excuses for not wanting kids. I don't want them either.

[@bcgibson22]

Housing crises around the world. So many people unemployed/underemployed. Why are MORE unhoused/unemployed (underemployed) people necessary???? PS the household will be fun when all the kids are 25+ and can't move out of home because the housing crisis continues....

[@skylinefever]

The people on top want more kids so that the demand on housing is further inflated. Same for the open borders crowd. Line must go up on wall street. What good does it do for the commoner? The corporate suite with his golden parachute does not care.

[@skylinefever]

Because line must go up on wall street.

[@DMFTexTex]

I had never thought about how talking about the declining birth rate is a racist dog whistle. This video was really thought-provoking. Thank you.

[@KateeAngel]

For me it became long ago clear that it is often used as right-wing dog whistle. Government in my country does it itself

[@gregtaylor9806]

It’s overly simplistic to believe that any person raising concerns about declining birth rates is a bogeyman. Even if they are particularly concerned about their own ethnicity, that is natural for any person in any ethnic group. Do we expect any person to believe, ‘yes, I want my ethnic group to wither and maybe die’. Would that be a healthy perspective for anyone to have?

[@skylinefever]

​@@gregtaylor9806I often joke that if all preferences are valid, in group preference is valid.

[@DMFTexTex]

@gregtaylor9806 your last three sentences directly contradict your first sentence, and pretty much reinforce the video's thesis.

[@KateeAngel]

​@@gregtaylor9806ok there is a difference between concern and trying to fear-monger and induce panic. I have read professional demographic literature in which actual demographers talk about it, and they show concern, but are using scientific language and clearly pointing out the extent of demographic problems in every case, and then if you compare that with highly emotional language online activists are using, it is clear the latter are trying to induce panic. "Extinction" and "population collapse" instead of "birth rate fell 1% lower than previous year, and the population is gradually aging". See the difference here. I also find it incredibly stupid to think huge countries or whole humanity are going "extinct" when they have maximum historic population, 5-10 times higher than it was during most of history, and in many cases it is still growing, while multiple species and also many smaller indigenous group were actually driven to extinction by our so-called civilization.

[@tyracole1998]

Pronatalism as a concept has always creeped me out. But it also doesn't make any sense there are way too many people who have multiple children literally unplanned and by accidents for me to genuinely believe that the population rates is going down so bad. But also wanting people to give birth but making life for people who already live so unsustainable the life that those children will grow up to inherit. it doesn't make people want to have children.

[@skylinefever]

Some want more planned children raised by actual motivated parents. However, I do not know what's that like.

[@panstromek]

Fertility rate is going down practically everywhere in the world (even in developing countries). There's just a lag between fertility rate and population growth.

[@middleagebrotips3454]

Interestingly, those pro baby policies dont do much in raising birth rate. The people know that child rearing is a long term endeavor and these temporary measures dont matter in the long haul

[@asmodiusjones9563]

Can’t afford having a baby? What if I offered you a one-time payment of half a month’s rent?

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

They've worked literally nowhere.

[@LordMagiru]

No amount of government financial and social incentives and programs helps reverse the trend according to the data. They barely raise the fertility rate for a short time and then the trend resumes.

[@empyrea_2546]

​@@asmodiusjones9563 ikr

[@panstromek]

​@@oldskoolmusicnostalgiasome have worked partially. In France and Sweden, I believe. But the vast majority of them didn't.

[@GoingSwimmingly]

Honestly a child isn’t happening over here if the other party’s disrespectful of my humanity. (Sexism is a bitch in high family value countries, ain’t she?) “But you’ll make a good mother!” _I’ll only take care of cats if people keep being clowns around me._

[@DAWNOFHIM]

Billionaire ceos: I need this many people working in my factory or else I won't be able to keep exponentially gaining wealth!! We're underpopulated!!

[@jikkh2x]

It must be so tiresome pretending the “imperial core” isn’t anti-white.

[@christianmiller9934]

Yawn you white supremacists and conservatives are so tiring the imperialist core doesn’t not mean the average population of those countries is committing crimes in the third and maybe if “white countries” don’t want to be called imperialist then maybe they should stop doing it

[@chequeplease]

It's a shame really, there is a real issue inside the pro natalist stance that they could never take because of their bigotry: plenty of people in the west would have had children by now but the material circumstances of the working classes (y'know the people who used to have lots of children) are so bad that it isn't feasable for most people to start a family.

[@DoAllDogsLikeMarmite]

I'm not so sure, historically having kids tended to be more often forced, either by coercion or by economic demands. Conditions are much worse for workers in "Subsaharan Africa" than for workers in the imperial core and yet their relative birth rates are higher.

[@parapara3974]

​@@DoAllDogsLikeMarmiteA lot of Africans who have choice to have kids don't. Or have fewer kids than historically expected. Even the fertility rate is going down in Nigeria, the most populated country.

[@chequeplease]

@@DoAllDogsLikeMarmite I think historically not everyone was working class, whereas now most people can't afford a house (may not be the case for Americans, this is the case in Europe) and so you're right that there was plenty of people who procreated out of coercion or necessity, there was a substantial portion of the population (it used to be called the 'middle class', but even the skilled working classes owned homes) that would have children out of choice, see baby boomers. For me I think the core issue is that people should be able to have a choice on how many children they have, or if they have children. It goes both ways, making people's circumstances so bad they can't have children is wrong, and so is making people's circumstances so bad they have to have children.

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

Forget having children, the working class people are literally not dating or starting households. It's something people like Musk can't understand: marriage rates are much higher in upper social strata. They don't understand the difficulty of finding a spouse/mate for other social groups.

[@e.rajmon3431]

If politicians genuinely want citizens to have children, decrease immigration, and make their nation better, they should build economies based on helping distribute the wealth to the majority so no one would worry about suffering from poverty, instead of economies based on accumulating wealth and capital exclusively for the wealthy minority.

[@19Pyrus70]

Decreasing immigration would mean that most, if not all, the nations in this world would actually have to work together to make life safe & livable for all the citizens in every nation irregardless of the political & economic systems each individual nation uses (If anyone has ever seen the anime Dog Days, that means our leaders would have to have the same personal & rulership ethos as the characters in this show). That's not happening any time soon.

[@ruzzianbot]

That is a naive way of looking at it, any serious attempt to distribute wealth leads to an authoritarian government, which has gone terribily in all cases. The only way I could see is overthrow of the industrial system and decentralization, giving power to local communities living off the land. It is basically impossible to get ultra-rich in this scenario.

[@JohannaTaylor-om7tu]

The Collinses are a textbook example of "well this is what worked for *us*, so we should remove and disincentivize any other way to live for everyone else at the federal level"

[@Kiratail]

So are we then the baby buster generation? The Okay Buster to their Okay Boomer?

[@therearenoshortcuts9868]

1970s: chest busters 1980s: ghost busters 2020s: baby busters

[@celieboo]

I have secondary infertility (I was able to have my son on my own, but was diagnosed with infertility after I tried to have a second child. ) If the US government wants me to have more children, they can do the following: 1. Pay for my infertility treatments which will include a gestational carrier and donor eggs 2. Exempt me from income taxes for the 18 years of my child's life so that i can pay for childcare and activities

[@randomtinypotatocried]

Who gives a 2 year old an ipad and straps it to them? This just sounds like a bad idea. Wait what they sleep in their dad's office? Wtf is going on with that situation? And I do agree on the mandatory parenting class, especially if there could be sections on different age groups and how to manage some of the issues with those age groups. I became a step dad two years ago and still figuring out how to parent a 14 year old and a 17 year old. I didn't have a great childhood to begin with and most of how I've been trying to manage has been basing on how I wish my parents were like towards me growing up

[@solidsnake1806]

To clarify, the 500PLN program in Poland is not a tax rebate, its a direct cash transfer monthly. Funny thing is you get it no matter what your income is, meaning well off people can apply for it too. No wonder the program did not work, when the sum has not been asjusted for inflation in 8 freaking years lol. 500pln is essentially akin to what 200pln was in 2016 when the program launched.

[@DoAllDogsLikeMarmite]

Is that really that odd when these policies often have a eugenic or xenophobic backing? Even as is, baby bonuses often come under criticism from the right for how they incentivise people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds vs higher ones to have kids. Hungary's tax exemption for women with four or more kids was created specifically to specifically encourage women from higher socioeconomic backgrounds to have more kids (particularly with Fidesz-KDNP also having a hard anti immigration stance.)

[@malygosiek]

It's 800pln since the beginning of this year, but still - basically pennies considering current economy. Also it's been 8 years and I still haven't met a single person who decided to have another child because of that program.

[@lebaronmarcus]

It reminds me so much of girlboss feminism: liberation and empowerment for women who are already privileged and indentured servitude for those who aren't

[@MrLisso98]

if they wanted me to have kids they better help fix the fucking job market and start making people able to have crrears again with good pay and a lot of free time to expend with my future kinds and family

[@kazexmoug705]

Why do I get "family annihilation" vibes from the Collins?

[@xxgothxxxx]

It's because you have eyes bro

[@kazexmoug705]

@@xxgothxxxx oh no.....

[@leonora8998]

The collins seem to have really horrible optics. No pun intended..

[@augmenautus]

"1 family having 10 kids and 1 family having 1 kid doesn't affect the global population equilibrium." Um, no, not if you can do math. If 1 family has 10 kids, they are raising the global population way more than the family that has 1 is lowering it.

[@smashwombel]

There's so many things wrong with this video, I don't even know where to begin. 1) Pro-natalism has nothing to do with race. TFR in East Asian countries is much lower than in Europe and America and a lack of immigration means that these countries will suffer population collapse much more than Western ones. So we're already off to a bad start with the cheap race baiting. 2) Fertility declines are not trivial. There has actually NEVER been a case where TFR increased after it dropped below replacement and even if it could be raised, the much smaller age brackets mean that it takes decades to rebuild the population lost. 3) Pronatalists don't advocate for government policies, because they don't work. Cash handouts are not pronatalist, they're populist garbage meant to appease voters, no matter who implements them. The Collins specifically are libertarians. 4) Humans won't go extinct, but our current society can't survive a severe population reduction. Western welfare systems are pyramid schemes based on perpetual population growth. 5) Immigration can't solve depopulation issues for every country, because not all countries are equally attractive to immigrants. Immigrants also adjust their TFR rather quickly upon arrival, so it's not a permanent solution. 6) It's weird that you think African immigration will be the solution to population decline, when all the problems regarding women's rights are so much more pronounced in these societies than in our own. 7) Ecofascism and Pronatalism are mutually exclusive. 8) It's ironic that you focus so much on women's reproductive choices, yet you are the one who is shaming Simone for having too many children. Why the hostility? Just let people have as many children as they want. You should be grateful, the fact that they have so many kids means others can have less. 9) Where is your evidence that the Collins are bigoted? You didn't cite any. Saying that women's rights lower fertility is not bigoted, it's an objective fact. 10) You misunderstood his comment about optics. He's saying having African immigrants pay for white pensioneers looks bad, because it reminds people of slavery. Also in general, having one racial group rely on another disproportionally is bad. 11) Stop criticising them for giving their kids iPads or having guns in the house, that's petty and immature 12) There's no reason to believe their kids are suffering so stop concern trolling. There are millions of children that live under worse conditions.

[@WeAreTheTwintails]

I've never heard someone speak on this issue with so little understanding of how things actually work. When immigrants enter a prosperous country, their birthrate quickly drops to match the country they are entering. This means in order for immigration to replace the population of these countries, steady numbers of smart, hardworking, brand new young people have to be imported year after year. And that strips away talent from the poor countries they are coming from. That artificially keeps the countries they're coming from poor. It's wrong for the industrialized world to just say "yeah, we're going to keep this part of the world poor so that we can just keep importing young workers." That's seriously wrong. We need to be fixing our own birthrate, instead of stealing young people from other places. Does that make sense to you?

[@roanora7853]

Welcome to braindead breadtube

[@christianmiller9934]

@@roanora7853this isn’t breadtube lmao

[@bluester7177]

This is literally what is already happening, people leave anyway, because they can, I'm Brazilian, loads of my friends moved legally to Europe or North America to work, because this country sucks, they want a better future now, not the possibility of maybe it getting better in the future, and the emperial core has kept us poor regardless of immigration, you could close all your borders and all of the educate people could remain and nothing would change, you just have a simplistic view.

[@ErutaniaRose]

Corporal punishment is wrong no matter who does it. And idk the actual stats, but I’m willing to bet it’s underreported how many white parents do it, alongside POC parents being overreported, and having a lack of resources to therapy or other mental health care that would work for them (keep their identities and systemic discrimination in mind), higher rates of trauma, and higher rates of facing abuse and poverty are to blame.

[@mynameisreallycool1]

Honestly, the whole "white parents are nicer and don't hit their kids, and all POC parents are violent and mean" stereotype is not only extremely racist propaganda, but it also hilariously untrue. Some of the worst physical abuse stories I've heard (by people I've met and stories I've heard online) came from white people, and most of the white friends I've had in my life have told me that their parents hit them a lot as kids. Movies, comedians, tv shows, etc. try to push this idea that white people are less violent and are just kinder and more patient compared to everyone else, and somehow people are okay with it, even POC themselves? You would get called out for being racist (rightfully so, of course) for saying that middle eastern and desi men beat their wives or that black and latino people are all violent criminals who are in gangs, but not when you say that people in these groups are all beating small children left and right while their white counterparts are just kinder and more loving and don't hit their kids at all? How are people okay with this?

[@rackynjeff]

I can’t wait to see how these kids turn into the worst kind of iPad kids

[@mynameisreallycool1]

I hope the kids are lucky and turn out okay in the future, despite their current conditions. Though I worry that their stupid parents will see their kids grow up and do well in life and think, "See? We were right! And they're successful because of us!" ugh If their kids grow up to be stable adults, it will be no thanks to their parents!

[@fishtick]

im not really a fan of judging a book by its cover but i could tell just by their glasses and hairstyle that those people with 4 kids had terrible takes/are conservatives...

[@BeachandHills-hb2pq]

They look and sound new agers to me. There kids are going to the stars etc. How are they conservative

[@fishtick]

@@BeachandHills-hb2pq my guy, did you even watch the video??? they ARE conservative.

[@LordMagiru]

@@fishtick They are conservative now. When they met they were progressives, well Simone was at least while Malcolm was more of a tech bro liberal. They started larping as religious conservatives and set about creating their own culture and religion because progressives and liberals don't have children and if they do there are no guarantees those children will have any children of their own while with religious conservatives it is the opposite but they want their culture and religion to be technophilic and be able to use and take advantage of new technologies.

[@skylinefever]

@@fishtick According to the leftists, conservatives don't want the black and brown breeding. The Colins foundatation is not like that.

[@bluester7177]

​@@BeachandHills-hb2pqmany new agers are, that's just your bias showing, religious belief doesn't always correlate to political position, I know many pretty liberal Christians, for example.

[@marine-poptart]

I think that if the west doesn’t want a huge wave of immigrants from browner countries, now would be a good time to help them fix their own countries. It’s generally the poorest people and those who feel they have no opportunities at home who migrate. If there’s an investment in education and in job creation and job security in developing countries, I guarantee that economic migrants crossing borders will be a very minimal phenomenon. I haven’t migrated to the “west” because things are pretty okay in my country, I really don’t feel the need to go live somewhere else.

[@jorgerangel2390]

I think the problem is the economic structure that we have globally, not the amount of babies being born, we should not care what "kind" of baby is born where, it is irrelevant and kind of racist. We should be thinking of ways of removing wealth from the already wealthy that are not violent and redistribute it to the general population like regulation and correct taxation, also cities are bad for our offspring , cars are specially bad in general not only for children

[@skylinefever]

I often joke about having high birth rates on the right side of the bell curve.

[@alexbayer2365]

What’s wrong with cars? It’s my choice. I don’t like metro or bus.

[@jorgerangel2390]

@@alexbayer2365 the problem is that it is not sustainable for all of us to use cars, in an ideal world I would be happy to let you have a car, but in the one we have we know for a fact cities with less individual cars are better for the population in general, I also love the convenience of a car but I do not think is our right to make the city worse because we want a car

[@alexbayer2365]

@@jorgerangel2390 better for the population? Any proofs? People prefer own space, own schedule and comfort. It’s my choice, people can live in villages if they want, it’s not my problem. It’s not communism. I’m from former USSR, and I don’t wanna see it again.

[@alexbayer2365]

@@jorgerangel2390 “u will own nothing and be happy” is not my ideology. I prefer single family home, my own car, I don’t like to share.

[@al4nmcintyre]

I feel like those two pro-natalists in the Talk TV interview were deliberately going for the "we're that elite childless couple at the beginning of Idiocracy" look. Is there a remake they're auditioning for?

[@joseayala2940]

🤣

[@TheLamehipster]

Capitalism is out of control

[@natefoster5454]

You should dive into the opposite world view. Antinatalism, where it stipulates that it is immoral to reproduce. This is because none of us consented to existence, and death and sorrow are garentee to life. As an adoptee myself, knowing I was created only to have been abandoned, I've found quite fondly of this philosophy.

[@NormieNeko]

I don't do nihilism. I don't like the associated hedonistic or suicidal behaviors. Life is suffering, but how we handle that suffering matters. Some people truly reach contentment. There are good people out there who make good parents.

[@LondonMoneyCashEnterprise]

Some antinatalists are loonies as well

[@KateeAngel]

I am an antinatalist, but some antinatalists are creepy, like some really say if we can ban reproduction we should do it. So there are authoritarians among us too ☹️

[@KateeAngel]

​@@NormieNekohow to handle your own suffering is one issue, and whether to create a new person which will have to face same problems is a totally different question.

[@KateeAngel]

​@@LondonMoneyCashEnterprise yeah!

[@grapeshot]

Yes I know Japan has been talking about this for quite some time.

[@skylinefever]

I first heard of low birth rates in Japan back in 2006.

[@smallxplosion9546]

Big problem there, if you’re both anti natalist and anti immigration your country isn’t gonna last long at all

[@gabrieleduardoronlezama7757]

As somebody studying education, I don't even know what to say. At least the fact that I'm a latino living in latinoamérica "comforts" me because my interaction with this kind of idiocies, or more like hellish ideological spawns festered in the imperial core, will be somewhat limited, which is not enough

[@NormieNeko]

Catholicism...it's rampant among Latinos, and it favors pro-natalism while rejecting abortion and sometimes birth control. They may not call it pro-natalism, but it's definitely there. That's why there's a classic stereotype for the Latino immigrant with 4+ kids. I can't see how you would have limited exposure. ??

[@stellas3233]

I love how Simone is all up in your comment section arguing with us randos. Is this the "work" she's so passionate about that she couldn't take a day of rest after the drugs wore off?

[@harpsdesire4200]

Oh no how dare she defend herself against the wildest accusations of being a secret not see! You people are beyond salvation

[@christianmiller9934]

@@harpsdesire4200these accusations aren’t even wild lmao they are very obvious

[@harpsdesire4200]

​@@christianmiller9934 Are people not allowed to defend themselves and advocate their case? Cheyanne literally makes it seem like these people are not sees when they've repeatedly said that they're pro-immigration, pro lgbt and pro abortion.

[@bluester7177]

​@@harpsdesire4200you can be all of this things and still be a white supremacist, which all things seem to allude to.

[@walterhoward5512]

Unsupervised before the age of 5? That is crazy.

[@mrpieceofwork]

When I first was shipped to TX from CA, I was put up in my nephew's room, which was right across from... * takes a deep breath * the room of the toddler daughter of another mother, who lived with my sister's husband because her mother was fighting a drug addiction, and who was just brought into the house a few months before my arrival... I rarely interacted with this girl, yet one night, she went to ME when she had a nightmare. Not down the hall to her father. Which tells me that children just need ADULTS IN THE ROOM AT ALL TIMES (within reason OFC)

[@Idontwanttobehereanymore]

This reminds me of VHEM (voluntary human extinction movement) whose slogan is "we live long and die out" their main core ideas is that you either should stop reproducing (there are millions of children waiting on adoption) or if you choose to do so you should do it responsibly making sure about their wellbeing It sounds a bit nihilistic but for me at least is comforting

[@cat_city2009]

Nihilistic, suicidal ideology.

[@roanora7853]

lol touch grass kid

[@shahankhan7685]

The only way to improve brith rate is have a verry good wealth redistribution system.

[@mindreader308]

I don’t understand why extension is considered bad. It’s something that’s gonna happen anyway. Life guarantees death. It is a fact that must not be said, but is well known. So, I come to the conclusion that this idea of populating the world So we can avoid extinction silly. If anything we are bringing more people to face the extinction with us.

[@OpticalArxenal]

Conditions for* humans*, not greedy capitalists, should then be improved so anyone actually wants to have kids. Affordable homes, decent work conditions and third spaces to be humans with other humans. Government needs to support that.

[@SimonTmte]

Systems do need to prioritize correctly, however left-wing political views questioning say a "pro-natalist" view again regret to understand what resources are, you can't have a median age of 60 and demand long lasting parental leave, like, unless technology has completely taken over the labor force there's no one working, the services which you demand are at least currently done by people, if you don't have people there can't be "free" services which socialist programs refer to..

[@OhlordyOh]

This video didn't actually talk about population projections and the consequences of economic growth especially for countries like South Korea. How does this video debunk the economic needs of China and south korea and countries that arent from our privileged rich position. It focused on these random pronatal influencers rather than pronatal governments or scientific research on and governmental projections- the latter of which is more important. For the US and wealthy countries, its not really a problem due to immigration but for countries like China that might not be able to attract the workforce required to support their population in the billions， it is. What about Vietnam, east asia, Iran and Japan? Assuming fertility at the rate of South Korea projected thst there are 4-6 grandkids for every adult. How does this video debunk the economic and cultural impacts of this?

[@wagnersouza4463]

Yes. Brazil also are facing fall of birthrate and the economic impact is already visible, despite government corruption and large incomes to high status politicians. The production is falling, and the aging population will not have retirement, all math can't fix this problem except have kids. The hole economic bullshit against have kids is just upper class bullshit, many of "its impossible affort kids" just don't realize that what they consider affort children is just luxury. And many have a pretty stereotypical view of poors having kids, in other countries, and call out the others as racists. One problem that we're facing here in Brazil is that most Millenials and grown Gen Z, because thet haven't have kids, they're becoming pretty hedonistic, so we now have a bunch of people just smoking hookahs and ride motocycles night along in the neighborhoods, and don't working. It's wierd how the health countries are immerse in this left x right wing narratives. We also have that, it is pretty visible thats only happens because we have too much plus 30 years old without families, with too much time to think that everything is politics, and very VERY affraid to have REAL responsabilities that ALWAYS was hard, and harder than now. One thing that people don't realize is that their country are rich because population growth, and this growth meant production, not isn't because of imperialism ( maintain wealth meant maintain production, and most of the left leaning politics in rich countries are pretty imperialistic in poor countries ). What I've seen is a bunch of "kids" complaining about "if you want we have kids, first give us better economy, houses and so on" but in most of the world this scenario NEVER happened. Why does this generation wants a too easy life?

[@skylinefever]

Because it is only bad if white people want white babies. If yellow people worry about yellow babies, it must mean something else.

[@christianmiller9934]

I don’t think impacts on cultural will be that big many ethnic groups took large population hits during colonialism like the Māori and they have more or less the same reconnect now as for economics I don’t have a good solution to that besides automation

[@bluester7177]

Maybe the economic system as it is needs to change to accommodate the population diminishing? It's not like capitalism was a thing that always existed, we have changed systems before.

[@bobjones7533]

I wish you talked more about the rich vs poor problems, but agree with sexism and racism themes

[@Veryveryquiet]

These two give my Ruby Franke vibes

[@michaelbloomer451]

Anyone who feels convinced by this video, go check the stats and quotes yourself

[@Michael0663-qo4wx]

Wow South Korea really sucks

[@shahankhan7685]

Edcuated smart People will only have kids if they can provide for them it's not to have 7 so 2 can survive into adulthood. It's to have 2 so 2 can thrive and have all the opportunity others kids have.

[@LordMagiru]

Then educated smart people will get replaced by religious fundamentalists over time. The disparity of fertility between culture groups only began in the 90's so its not been all that long and we are already seeing an effect. Two more generations and it will be a very different world indeed.

[@bitshiftme]

I should make a video response to this because in the first 12 seconds I already know there is misconstrual. There are nut jobs everywhere, but the birth rate crisis is an issue in all developed nations including those which are not america or majority white. It is about capitalism crushing societies for the sake of profits and has way more to do with the next earnings of nasdaq companies than racism, sexism, or even economic inequality. Poorer countries are not dealing with this issue, they have other ones because they occupy a different positiom in the capitalist meat grinder. This is not a black, white, man, woman, etc. issue it is a human issue and is inevitable for every country as this is the end stage of societal progression so far as we can tell from historical record. This is not a new issue, this is as old as human civilization. We need to really figure this out and stop treating it like it isn't real or we will quickly find ourselves on our ass.

[@christianmiller9934]

No racism and sexism do play apart in the decline of birth rates

[@bluester7177]

Why is it an issue? I why humanity has to keep growing like a cancer? There will be 10 billion people in 20 years, there are 8 billion now, are we going extinct while having the most people to have ever simultaneously existed?

[@kayadimaria]

I'm surprised you didnt mention Canada! We have a great monthly child tax benefit that's ~$600 a month per child, we have maternity leave, and there is the new $10 a day federal daycare program being rolled out. Also in Alberta (where I am located) there are also grants for childcare facilities that has dropped the price immensley. I pay $86 a month for my son's daycare. It's crazy in the States how little support there is for parents... I see people online talking about daycare costing $2000< per month

[@LordMagiru]

Government financial and social incentives do virtually nothing to increase fertility rates. If they did countries with such programs wouldn't be following the trend in lockstep with those who have no such programs.

[@mrpieceofwork]

"The Future Police" is so dark when compared to "Santa" HFS! I'm not one to celebrate xmas in any way at all, but GDI "The Future Police"?! Who confiscate the one thing that brings joy to a f-n child?! OMG! NOT LIKE THIS. Wow! Just... WOW!

[@mrpieceofwork]

Far darker than even KRAMPUS! No doubt these kids are going to be seeing therapists in the near future. Again... Yikes!

[@augmenautus]

Overpopulation and underpopulation can't logically both be myths unless you believe the current population number is both optimal and will not change in the future, which are bad assumptions.

[@auroraasleep]

1: life is expensive and full of student debt. 2: kids are expensive. 3: inflation + cost of living > wages. 4: US health care sucks, and maternal care is abysmal. AKA, not doin' that again! 5: Forcing people to socialize in their local communities is a bad idea. Speaking for my own family, we homeschool so the kid CAN experience friendships with families who are different from his own. We live in a /very/ small, /very/ white, /very/ protestant town. Variety is putting peas vs. celery in the potato salad. I don't need that kind of negativity in my life and neither does he. We'll travel for friends who enjoy different lifestyles and different foods that don't involve mayo.

[@auroraasleep]

After we had a baby we found out that daycare cost more than I made. Having two was out of the question.

[@Roy-lt3eo]

The demographic decline will not be the end of humanity. It will be the end of humanity’s current economic system. As tax and social safety net models collapse with smaller working aged populations; some fear this change will lead to fear induced violence, and be disruptive to many democratic societies. Let’s hope it’s more of a gradual shift.

[@bbytyat]

you always have the most interesting topics. thank you for another great one! i wish everyone could see this

[@CheyenneLin]

Thank you so much!! ☺️ I’m glad you liked it :)

[@beccyvc5743]

I think the whole discussion is unethical, whether one chooses to side with over- or underpopulation. We have to accept however many people there and just deal with it. That much said, 20 years ago in middle school I learnt that there are ~6.1 billion people in the world and now there are~8.1, that's ~33% increase and it does start to feel crowded in some places.

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

It will continue to grow, not shrink. 10 billion threshold will be crossed by 2055. So much for a collapse.

[@roanora7853]

@@oldskoolmusicnostalgia Africa will survive but most nations won't exist in 100 years due to depopulation

[@bluester7177]

​@@roanora7853you're assuming all people are going to stop having children, which is not going to happen, also, a lot of the countries that existed right now didn't exist a 100 years ago, things change and it's fine, humans are not going extinct and European and North American culture isn't either, you're not being sterilised like a lot of your countries did to poc people.

[@panstromek]

​@@oldskoolmusicnostalgia well, after the peek at ~10 it will shrink rapidly, so by the numbers it will definitely be a collapse (especially in places with consistently low birthrate, like China or Japan).

[@SamriBliss]

The most read NYT article in 2023 was an article on how the developed world’s fertility rates are declining while Africa and the Middle East are holding steady with 6 kids per mother.

[@skylinefever]

Send condoms and BC pills in foreign aid packages.

[@KateeAngel]

Yeah, nonsense, there are only few countries left with more than 5 kids per woman on average. Most countries in Africa now have 4 kids per woman and it is declining, and in Middle East it is 2-3 kids

[@NuelBility]

Yh, like fertility rates here in Nigeria (especially the south) have been declining steeply over the past few years. By 2100 it's estimated the country will have a below replacement fertility

[@ladygrey4113]

Quiverfull movement applies too