Chiang Kai-shek Plays it Like Stalin | Between 2 Wars | 1926 Part 3 of 3

[@TimeGhost]

First of all, many thanks to Gabriel Matsakis for helping out with the research for this episode! While writing about China and Chiang Kai-shek Spartacus realised that he needed to make more than one script to explain The Northern Expedition (crucial to the developments that eventually lead to the World war in China), so we threw in another episode in 1926 to explain Chiang Kai-shek's rise to power. In the next episode (1927 part 1) we will return to the United States and look at the economic boom and the Roaring Twenties. We will also return to China and the actual Northern Expedition in a 1927 episode after that/ Enjoy the confusion that is China in the 1920s!?! *RULES OF CONDUCT* - STAY CIVIL AND POLITE we will delete any comments with personal insults, or attacks. - AVOID PARTISAN POLITICS AS FAR AS YOU CAN we reserve the right to cut off vitriolic debates. - HATE SPEECH IN ANY DIRECTION will lead to a ban. - RACISM, XENOPHOBIA, OR SLAMMING OF MINORITIES will lead to an immediate ban. - PARTISAN REVISIONISM, ESPECIALLY THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE, THE HOLOCAUST AND HOLODOMOR DENIAL will lead to an immediate ban. Thanks for reading, and now.... let’s make history!

[@varana]

And that confusion will continue through all the 30s and 40s.

[@cromania100]

Hello Indy and crew, keep up the amazing work! I have a question what do you mean by "Partisan Revisionism" and "partisan politics" in your rules? Didn't our forefathers, the Yugoslav Partisans, leave a good enough impression on you or what :D

[@tankrabbit534]

Hi Indy & team. Fantastic job. A bit off topic: my wife saw this episode and she promised to watch all of them only if I ask You more details about the decanter in the background, the one with the brown liquid in it. Keep up the good work and sorry for the silly enquiry. :-)

[@shrillbert]

@@cromania100 I think they just mean the way that a lot of people will twist historical facts to suit their own political agendas. Looking at the WW2 Channel, I don't think Tito's been talking to Indy on the phone yet, so probably not.

[@TimeGhost]

It’s not a silly question at all, it’s a beautiful piece. Your wife has a good eye! The decanter is an original art-nouveau crystal and silver piece manufactured by the German company WMF some time between 1900 and 1910. Astrid and I (Spartacus) acquired it for our first birthday dinner together when we met many moons ago. We’re not huge on birthday celebrations, so already before we met both of us traditionally celebrated by treating ourselves to a personal day off (we’re both workaholics). As it happens our birthdays are only one day apart, so now we celebrate with a date dinner on the day between them. It’s currently filled with Amaretto (almond liqueur).

[@gcircle]

I adopt "Stalin was impressed by Chiang's balls of steel" as headcanon

[@vukhuathuy2866]

me too

[@porksterbob]

Chiang Kai shek's son was in Moscow at this time. So that makes Chiangs balls bigger. But also helped since Stalin didn't have similar leverage on any other Chinese leader.

[@lc1138]

@@porksterbob Oh, that's a powerful motive.

[@davidw.2791]

Man of steel impressed by balls of steel.

[@janwacawik7432]

Goodbye to Chiang, my little one, You tried to show them how to fire a gun, And built an army with your rule, You know I'll always think it's cool founding China's army school. Bye Chiang Kai Shek it's hard to die, When all the birds are singing in the sky, Now that the spring is in the air, And the warlords everywhere, When you crush them, I'll be there . We had joy, we had fun, we all worked with doctor Sun, But The army we made let the Japanese invade.

[@Artur_M.]

Who else went back to this masterpiece immediately after watching this video?

[@alanbernhardt6167]

Jan Wacławik what/who is this from?

[@janwacawik7432]

@@alanbernhardt6167 Indy Neidell himself. Look for a video called "Here's the thing: we all worked with Sun Yat Sen".

[@gsacelm7753]

@@Artur_M. Seasons in the sun huh

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

@@DrCruel Always one or two of you isn't there?

[@abandonedchannel281]

The death of Sun Yat Sen was the worse thing to happen to China, the one man who could have saved the entire nation died

[@ChubbyTeletubby]

And don't forget Sum Dom Gai Well... nevermind. He wasn't exactly "smart"...but he uh...I dunno. All the records are lost or destroyed. Maybe there weren't even any records to begin with. Sorry.

[@XiangYu94]

Our modern Liu Bei

[@porksterbob]

Song Jiaoren was the real tragedy.

[@xz1891]

这就是先天不足，谁来也没卵用

[@rp-hr1qs]

I think KMT and later CPC did a relatively good job of piecing the country together, in hindsight.

[@Mondo762]

Back in the 1950's as a little kid I lived on Taiwan. My father was a US Army adviser with MAAG Taiwan. Years later he told me stories about how brutal Chiang Kai-shek was to his own people. There was a place called "The Race Track" in Taipei where people that didn't measure up were sent, never to be seen again. Watching this video was enlightening and I wasn't surprised by Chiang Kai-shek's actions. I know he is considered a hero in Taiwan but it is good to know the whole story.

[@hazzmati]

Every war hero in history has its dark sides. The victors just try to hide it

[@drsch]

Yeah, I've been here for 15 years now and have made Taiwan's history a bit of a personal hobby. There's a real argument that can be made that Taiwan was better off under the Japanese than they were under Chiang when he first arrived. The White Death that just made citizens vanish to the Green Island prison, the brutal military/police actions against the people to squash their freedom of assembly and free speech, and the absolute inability of Chiang to put any effort whatsoever into improving the island of Taiwan because of his misguided and unrealistic plan to some day go back and take over China did massive amounts of damage to the country. Taiwan is fortunate that they were able to make a transition from military dictatorship to a democratic representative government.

[@Argacyan]

Taiwan and it's allies love to whitewash history. Taiwan, like numerous other US allied and initially (usually before a US backed coup to the tune of 3/4th of world dictatorships) neutral countries after world war 2, was a place of brutal repression and mass murder of innocent men, women and children.

[@Legitpenguins99]

@@drsch you reminded me to look into Taiwans dark history more. Ive been meaning to lately but forgot, thanks. The Taiwanese people are very lucky to have their currant democracy they have today. For once it seems US intervention in foreign nations (aside from Korea of coarse) actually made a positive difference otherwise Taiwan would also probably just be a puppet of china and their totally not authoritarian government that totally respects human rights (saracasm)

[@cameronrichardson1576]

His own people?? If he sent them to the race track they were not HIS people.

[@salokin3087]

So glad Timeghost has kept going, interwar years in china are sadly overlooked too often

[@TimeGhost]

Stay tuned for more!

[@TammoKorsai]

Chaing's rise to power in a nutshell: 1) Build army. 2) ??? 3) Become Generalissimo.

[@danieltsiprun8080]

Havent you heard of bigger army diplomacy?

[@matthewreinert9358]

Generalissimo is literally supreme commander of armies. It's not step 3, it's step 2.

[@TammoKorsai]

Generalissimo can mean being head of government at the same time as being its military leader,

[@RU-zm7wj]

Read More. Read More.

[@IkeFromCN]

2: winning support from Foreign powers by sold out Chinese market to Western country and their companies. Most income of Chiang Kai-shek's government came from tariff. It means more foreign goods flooded into China, more money he can get. It is the core making Chiang Kai-shek success at 1920s~1930s and finally failed during Chinese civil war. CPC can collect tax and grains from red rural area. Chiang was simple can't do the same thing to KMT territory. Tariff is most important even arguably only income Chiang can get. But itself can't support a total mobilization war for KMT.

[@varana]

Blücher - died 1938. Kuibyshev - died 1938. Wonder how that happened. ;D

[@finderdiler]

Propably Papa Stalin got a little paranoid. ;)

[@trj820]

He just sent them on an all-expense trip to Getshotistan.

[@christopherjustice6411]

They forgot to get Stalin something for his birthday?

[@TalonAshlar]

@@finderdiler Stalin purged to purify the great Bolshevik Movement

[@hakonandreasolaussen1949]

Blücher: died in 38, sank in 40. Don't ever name your kid Blücher, folks

[@tomalexander4327]

This is some of the best content on KZbin. Thanks to the team for putting these together.

[@TimeGhost]

You're welcome! And thanks to you for watching

[@goodman4966]

1920s to 1940s China is like Game of Thrones who will win all China

[@BHuang92]

Makes Game of Thrones look like a sitcom............

[@goodman4966]

@@BHuang92 yes many it does

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

the White Walkers will win

[@auguststorm2037]

@@Duke_of_Lorraine The Red Long Marchers

[@alejandrocasalegno1657]

@@Duke_of_Lorraine The Red walkers win...............and Mao become the "Red King"

[@HistoryHustle]

When I was in China museums rarely show much indepth information about this period. Yet, the war against Japan is very much elaborated on. Looking forward to these episodes! Well done how you guys explained such complicated history!

[@TimeGhost]

Thanks! Glad you're enjoying it.

[@Healermain15]

I imagine both many Chinese and the CCP would rather not linger on the messiness, infighting and opportunistic diplomacy that dominated this period. It's where the current government came to power after all. Much easier and morally justifiable to focus on the obvious outside invaders with notoriously cruel occupations.

[@Legitpenguins99]

Yep. Dont have to have been to china to know that. Its all apart of the CCPs propaganda to create a enemy to rally the people behind to keep themselves in power and help their cruel and unopposed regime. Its very saddening

[@kaczynskis5721]

When Albania fell out with China in the late 1970s, Enver Hoxha published 'Reflections On China'. One of his remarks was to note that the CPC had yet to issue a book describing its own history. I don't know if that changed in later years but some periods undoubtedly present problems. In his book on the Korean War the British historian Max Hastings noted that a museum in Beijing in the 1980s had a display on the Korean War - Hastings wrote that it included British Bren machine guns that the Chinese had captured.

[@065Tim]

@@kaczynskis5721 Victories aren't the parts of history people have problems with to elaborate on. The parts where people had other thoughts however...

[@konstm.s.236]

Indy: *vistis france* Also Indy: stay radical and keep up the revolution

[@coalitiongaming3242]

Konst M. S. Oh shit

[@indianajones4321]

All these Warlords and factions fighting in the Chinese Civil War reminds me of Oversimplified’s battle of the three kingdoms

[@haffelbaffel123]

China does that every couple hundred years

[@ReviveHF]

Yes it's the same Civil War again, but this time Russia, Japan and US are involved. It's basically Three Kingdoms with nukes and computers.

[@Snar]

20th century three kingdoms lol

[@Taylan5561]

after binge watching every episode of the great war and ww2 for months I can finally watch these videos as they come out !

[@TimeGhost]

Congrats! Glad you've caught up

[@alejandroesparza7224]

Oh, no!!! I was loving these videos about China and suddenly realized there were no more of them. Amazing Channel with amazing content. Cheers to you!!

[@troy9477]

Fascinating. It looks like Ciang was more effective in his early years than we are generally taught. All that captured hardware would have been enough to supply his slowly growing forces for awhile. The rifles and MG's are enough to equip a division, plus what they already had. The arty might not be quite a division's worth, but 7 batteries is a good start. Love the series. Keep the great info coming. I notice Kuibyshev died in 1938 at age 45. So i will guess he was caught up in one of Stalin's purges.

[@Lance-Urbanian-MNB]

It's great to find and watch these old(r) episodes as to get a better view on happenings before the big global happenings go down. Your background work is amazing. I thank you all so much for bringing all this "side" history to a mass audience.

[@johnyricco1220]

Damn both advisors died in 1938, you know what that means...

[@podemosurss8316]

Well, Blücher was court-martialled and executed after screwing things up at the battle of lake Khasan (1938) against the Japanese. His incompetence was so high that the Soviet leaders literally though he was a Japanese spy!

[@mebsrea]

Podemos URSS That’s not why he was murdered. From your handle and that statement, I suspect you’re a Stalinist apologist.

[@podemosurss8316]

@@mebsrea No, he did just fine in Khasan, the Soviets lost a lot of troops there in combats that they could have theoretically won just because reasons...

[@xappgametvx]

“Stalin admires Chiang’s balls of steel”

[@blathermore]

Just discovered you!! This is a terrific history presentation....I love the decor of the room (being an old lady) and I love your pronunciation of the names. One reason people still watch idiot box news is that the newscasters are trained to speak...(this is vanishing now, so there's no reason) Wish I had money to help out, but here's a big thumbs up for encouragement.

[@brankeane2830]

My husband’s grandpa threw Chiang’s grand piano out of an airplane over the Himalayas, when he was deployed there. Apparently they needed to save weight!

[@TimeGhost]

That's a shame.

[@TheRageng]

This part of chinese history is infinitely interesting! So huge possibilities, so many players and so much drama!

[@TimeGhost]

Indeed. Glad you're appreciating our content!

[@archstanton6102]

When Indy presents the episode on Wall Street Crash, for authenticity, he shoukd do it sat on a window sill of a bank, looking stressed and pearing over the edge.

[@DoctorStrangeFate]

Thanks again for your work, Indy. As a lover of history, between two wars is yet another period of time that I feel is woefully under appreciated.

[@XiangYu94]

My grandma lived in a hamlet near modern day Shenzhen and recalls that time with equal fear & reverence. Grandpa was even older and saw older dudes cutting off their braids when he was a little kid. They both remember rice being cut with sawdust at the time, or pretending to be Christians to solicit the help of foreign missionaries in Canton lol

[@drsch]

I mean, the Russians weren't wrong. Chiang was a fairly clueless military leader and as a politician, he was basically a brutal military dictator.

[@Argacyan]

Chiang was just the guy the "western world" desired because of that

[@flamefang]

Views of Chiang have varied pretty widely over time, but the view taken by more recent histories tends to be that the Russians and Stilwell were missing the point. China at this time wasn't a modern country by any stretch of the imagination, and this problem extended not only to military matters but also to the socio-political sphere. In order to effectively control the country Chiang had to serve as a military leader *and* politician at the same time. Every military action had political consequences, and every political action had military consequences - these two things overlapped on a fundamental level. The Russians and Stilwell were blind to the political sphere, and when it prevented Chiang from taking their advice they grew frustrated. It's easy to finger-wag and call Chiang incompetent, but he emerged as the sole victor from a crucible of civil war that had engulfed China for a generation, held it together for a decade afterward, and remained its unquestioned leader through another eight years of catastrophic invasion. Was he brutal? Sure. Would anything else have gotten the job done? Probably not.

[@matthewreinert9358]

@@Argacyan Chiang wasn't desired by the West. There will be a lot of worry about him once the Northern Expedition kicks off as many in the West will be convinced that he is going to march the foreigners out of China.

[@cbrtdgh4210]

@@flamefang Fantastic summary! I'm going to save this if you don't mind.

[@flamefang]

C brtdgh By all means!

[@dentoncrimescene]

Yet another fabulous episode.

[@chrisgerardy2877]

Very interesting and well done. Keep up the good work!

[@TimeGhost]

Thanks!

[@deathdoor]

8:15 That photo is fantastic!

[@taufiqutomo]

Confusing? Yes.

[@bigceelos]

Indy! Didn't know you had another show! Subscribed.

[@TimeGhost]

Awesome! Welcome to the party! Have you also seen the 'world war two' channel?

[@2prize]

15:58 Stalin has the best head of hair in history

[@ripsumrall8018]

Have you seen Trotsky??!!

[@DawgPro]

The "Between 2 Wars" Playlist is missing a few vids; this part 3 and the part 2 before haven't been added. Thank You.

[@thustra07]

Loved the music!

[@stevenwills4660]

Will there be a 1923 part 2? so far it's just the beer hall Putsch.

[@stevenwills4660]

Maybe you could do the irish civil war and a little background on the Anglo-Irish treaty Crisis.

[@TimeGhost]

It will just be the putsch, we can’t cover everything unfortunately.

[@stevenwills4660]

@@TimeGhost fair enough keep up the good work cant get enough you guys stuff!

[@meeeka]

TimeGhost History Too bad: the contrasting stories of the practically minded, strategically gifted, and open brilliance of Michael Collins versus the contrarian stories of the coldly manipulative behavior of Eamon deValera, ultimate survivor, are fascinating. Of course both men were stubborn, hardheaded men, who were willing to do whatever was necessary, whatever in the power of humans to make the Brits leave and grow Ireland. Collins, has had the benefit of a Hollywood movie and TV series, but deValera lived, even tho many of his comrades and peers didn't think very much of him.

[@taoliu3949]

In regards to 'Chiang's Thoughts', has there been any analysis of Chiang's diaries?

[@DrWhoHarvey]

I was wondering if you could provide a bibliography of the books you used for your chinese episodes. Especially for the pre ww2 period. Thank you.

[@赵汉卿-q8z]

A very beautiful tie, sir😊

[@giovannith-96]

great, thank you!

[@MCorpReview]

Wang: I'm d man ! Chiang: sure. Now sign this. Any questions? Wang: wheres d pen? Stalin is outta his mind.

[@jeffmcarthur5617]

Am I a terrible person for constantly thinking through this episode, "Hu is in charge of China?" "No, Who's on first..."

[@forthrightgambitia1032]

Stalin's moves here are very reminiscent of how he acted in the Spanish Civil War and with regard to the Nazi-Soviet pact or how he abandoned the Greek Communists. It was part of his socialism in one country kind of thinking, that preferred military powerful and stable allies or at least non-belligerent ones other losing ones regardless of ideology if Russian troops themselves could not have boots in the ground. After all, as Trotsky, Nin, Mao and Tito found, he regarded any other communist leader who didn't recognise his authority as a source of suspicion.

[@TimeGhost]

Stalin was quite outspoken about that he was opportunistic about his alliances. He was less outspoken about being primarily interested in protecting his dictatorship, socialism not so much... but actions speak louder than words!

[@kaczynskis5721]

The Greek Communists had enough external support postwar to keep a civil war going for several years, and while direct support from the USSR seems not to have been sent, Albania, Yugoslavia and Bulgaria - all Soviet-allied at the time - supplied safe havens and logistics. Unlike the USSR, they were right on Greece's border. The bulk seems to have been from Tito's Yugoslavia and a by-product of Tito's break in 1948 was that the external support to Greek Communist guerrillas was undermined. During the Western-supported junta years from 1967 to 1974, Greek army tanks reportedly had a ritual of driving up to the border with Bulgaria and demonstratively pointing their cannons at it. They don't seem to have done the same with Albania or Yugoslavia, perhaps because they were no longer close allies of the USSR by that time.

[@greekcommie621]

In the case our civil war he had an agreement with the west on to intervene in Greek politics and things were going favourably in chekoslovakia so he didn't want to push the West too far by intervening here.

[@mercia3493]

5:03 thanks for the jump scare 😂

[@TerminalConstipation]

wow, what is that picture at 16:03 ? i've never seen that before, with young stalin, kirov, and molotov

[@dominicguye8058]

@TimeGhost_History

[@inferioraim]

I just love this channel, keep up the great content! You will be receiving patreon support from me in the foreseeable future

[@TimeGhost]

Thank you - your support is appreciated whenever it comes - every dollar counts!

[@TimeGhost]

Thank you very much!

[@BHuang92]

I think Sun Yet Sen made a poor choice with Chiang. The problem with Chiang was he was just another warlord which poloarized the poor in China which what enabled the Communist to rise. If the Nationalist and the Communist set aside, China would've been more stable but Chiang was too stubborn. As much of a traitor Wang Jiangwei was, it's not hard to understand the frustration he had prior to his betrayal to the Japanese.

[@Admiral2Kolchak]

BHuang92 Wellvthe amount of political pressure Chiang was under and the threat of assassination that had occurred to prior KMT executives definitely would induce skepticism to anyone. Chiang was ruthless but I think to many people cannot relate to the difficult situation he was in and arrive at overly critical conclusions.

[@kaczynskis5721]

Blyukher's frustrations with Chiang resembled those of the Americans later, during the Second World War.

[@zhaopeiyu]

Chiang wasn't like the other warlords because he wasn't willing to become a puppet to foreign interests like almost all the other warlords. He fought Japanese and Soviet forces alike as well as the Chinese warlord factions that they supported.

[@meeeka]

BHuang92 Don't forget that Dr Sun and Chiang Kai Shek we're married to sisters; chinese, christian, educated by US missionaries in china and the US Ivy league. Imagine what family dinner parties must have been like!

[@ash9280]

This video has kind of has anti Chiang bias in it. If you look at during Nanjing Decade, Chiang's government made many strides and there were many attempts to improve the country. China during this period made some economic progress. But the Japanese invasion threw everything into a loop.

[@maxsmodels]

Chaing would make a great candidate for your Dicktionary series.

[@jshadowhunter]

Still waiting for Miklos Horthy video.

[@CodedStingray]

Game of Thrones: Chinese Edition

[@johnvonshepard9373]

Game of Chong

[@HaloFTW55]

Game of Wang (王)

[@cujoemblakka1041]

That's a good idea! Make money from something negative.

[@Kiranoir]

well knowing you guys are busy on producing videos for the WW2 channel, but the events on 1927 and after that is also interesting to say the least, would you guys be covering these periods as well?

[@TimeGhost]

Of course! - we are planning to finish the entire series by early 2020

[@HWDragonborn]

I always wonder why Westerners called the Chinese Nationalist Party as Kuomintang and KMT, yet didn't called Chinese Communist Party as Kungchantang and KCT.

[@vladimir.zlokazov]

Watching your series I understand how limited my understanding of history is. When we study history at school we mostly concentrate on internal affairs turning to the outside world only if something big happens there like a world war. That approach however does not allow to see that what happens in one's country is not something isolated but a part of a bigger picture. Keep up the good work!

[@TimeGhost]

Thank you

[@67nairb]

Indie Nidell's tie looks likes the horizontal tricolors of Germany, black, red and gold.

[@KonradvonHotzendorf]

That black is green thought

[@67nairb]

so it is.@@KonradvonHotzendorf

[@67nairb]

your username is the same as that of the chief of the Austro-Hungarian general staff during World War One.@@KonradvonHotzendorf

[@KonradvonHotzendorf]

@@67nairb Yes I am binge watching the great war and every week Conrad von Hötzendorf has another horrible plan 😅

[@67nairb]

Hoetzendorf along with Austro-Hungarian foreign minister Count Leopold von Berchtold wanted to go to war with Serbia to halt Serbian "expansionism" in the Balkans once and for all.@@KonradvonHotzendorf

[@dmarks0630]

The title says it all. Chiang Kai-shek plays like Stalin. Nationalist Party and Chinese Communist Party govern the same way, just different ideology. I served in Taiwan army as a conscript in 80's, Chiang's son was still in power. The Taiwan military has political officers, just like People's Liberation army(Chinese Red army ), but political officers are Nationalist Party members, of course. After Chiang and his son died, Nationalist Party lost elections in recent years and lost control gradually, many high ranking officials of Nationalist Party went to Beijing to reconcile with CCP and kissed CCP's behind, so to speak. It's most disgusting thing to me. Those officials are the henchmen of Chiang and his son who threw people into the jail, accused people of being Communist sympathizers. Now they are literally kissing CCP's behind, promoting unification with China publicly, in the name of Freedom of the Speech, because Taiwan is now a democracy with Freedom of the speech.

[@Pancasilaist8752]

So do you support Taiwan independence or remain part of the Republic of China? I prefer an independent Taiwan so no more "two china problem"

[@blanyeeast2928]

I really want to know more about this incident! What is the source material for Chiang's list of demands?

[@swevenshee3327]

Interesting, the same happened to Chiang 16 years later in 1942, when he requested General Joseph Stilwell returned to the US and be taken off the duty. The later openly criticized him as a "morbid, paranoid warlord, who views his soldier as his own asset rather than anything else. A corrupt man who has eaten up most of the US aid with his extended family ." This assessment is somewhat similar to General Kuibyshev, and it could not be a coincidence.

[@porksterbob]

Stilwell should have been removed in 1942 and Chiang Kai Shek didn't request it when he should have after Stilwell messed up Burma.

[@DanielFoland]

I tried to leave a comment but the platform censorship wouldn't let me. Good show.

[@CWBrauer]

My father-in-law was a fighter pilot in China. He said it was the China Task Force. He had a medal with ribbon given him by Madame Chiang Kai-shek. He never talked about the war and it did not seem my place to inquire if he did not want to share. He returned from the war with white hair while still very young. Sadly the medal disappeared at sometime before his death. He was returned to the US via a trip over the hump, then a long bout of malaria that left him in India for a long time until healthy.

[@Antonious_jeffer]

When you play too much hoi4 to know that Chang Kai shek and the soviets relations will not end well

[@jstantongood5474]

The word Chow is pronounced Joe in Mandarin. Feng is pronounced like Fung.

[@AureliusLaurentius1099]

The Warlord Era in China seems like an IRL Game of Thrones.. SOmeone should make a TV series out of this

[@HWDragonborn]

There are a lot of C-dramas that were set in that period.

[@PeterTheVald]

HI. Love this series. Love all your series. Found the confused circumstances of if soviets were behind attempted coup--hillarious. Hint: History is being made in Ukraine today---why not make a stellar series about this. The world needs to know that the machinations and deceit by Russia/soviets/imperialists through history and not a sudden freak.

[@TimeGhost]

Thank you for your support! We’re putting all of our focus into WW2 for now!

[@PeterTheVald]

@@TimeGhost Thanks again.

[@HWDragonborn]

5:34 "the right faction under who" Well, who is that?

[@knightshousegames]

My guess on why Stalin accepted Chiang's demands is likely because he probably wanted to replace him anyway and was more interested in building up the communists covertly, playing the long game rather than continuing to work with Chiang since he clearly wasn't into the communist stuff anymore.

[@aaronmizrahi1550]

just thinking out loud: what about saying that stalin actually believed in this archetype and saw spmepne that actually promoted it, even if it meant loosin his power he actually saw his modus operandi in action, his world view in action, pretty simple ain it?

[@darioguerra3065]

Vasily Blyukher surname was the Russianized version, not the original German Blücher

[@cs_fl5048]

Noticed the redecorating. Is that historical Absinthe in the background??

[@TimeGhost]

I'm afraid it's peppermint liquor.

[@SPRPhilly]

I was hoping this would develop into an episode of Angel and Snake.

[@BigBoss-sm9xj]

Ha

[@Flight_of_Icarus]

It may not be as surprising to hear that Stalin approved Chiang Kai Shek's demands if you remember the main point of contention that Stalinism has with Leninism and Trotskyism, that of Stalin wanting a more centralized, top down view of the Soviet State, with the individual Soviets not having much power. Perhaps he just saw Chiang as a kind of kindred spirit, someone unifying the Kuomintang from a top-down perspective, and that, since he could believe him to be a fellow traveler, Chiang himself could be converted over and led the KMT into the Commitern.

[@porksterbob]

Stalin was more focused on "Who will give Japan the biggest headache?" Ideology didn't enter into it.

[@pandyslittlesenpai1777]

Wow a hypersonic version of who's on first. Abbot and Costello "who's on first".

[@waltervankalkenobcandorang8245]

Huh that's it? No 1927-1939? Great series so far!

[@0btuse]

Everytime Indy says the Hu, I think of the Mongolian power metal band; The Hu

[@TheJoseph0012]

Holy shit so many names, I can't keep up.

[@advanced2431]

If you don't mind if I ask, may I see the sources you used for this video in particular? Myself doing independent research often led to short ends and language barriers. A fair amount of the information into the specifics of the events of 1926 I had not heard of before this video especially in regards to details on the right, center, and left Kuomintang splinters(these are often vague in online sources I've found).

[@spartacus-olsson]

I tend to use a lot of academic articles (Joram is compiling a full list of sources sorted by format from Indy's and my lists, that we will link to in the videos as soon as he's done), in. this case one of my main sources is a book though, "War and Nationalism in China, 1925-1945" by Hans J. van de Ven ISBN 0-415-14571-6 that I highly recommend if you want to understand specifically what you're expressing interest in. Hans J. van de Ven is professor in modern Chinese History at Cambridge University and one of the main authorities on China in the west - his western perspective coupled with his incredibly deep understanding of China's complex and intriguing political landscape in this era enables him to transfer the complex Chinese political structures in an understandable and still correct way.

[@advanced2431]

Spartacus Olsson Interesting, many thanks!

[@pgakagi]

Is this absinthe in the bottle behind? If so, do you drink it before or after recording? Ot maybe small tribute to Blücher (not his real name) who was known drunkard? :)

[@rowevitch]

Does anybody know what that ornate edifice directly behind Indy is?

[@snowhole2625]

12:24 huh, ‘Zhongshan’ is one of Sun Yat Sen’s names in mandarin. They must’ve named a ship after him pretty quickly.

[@TimeGhost]

That is correct, they did.

[@davidw.2791]

It was an alt-name taken after the Cantonese city too.

[@SamAronow]

Blucher! (Neigh)

[@ankhi3585]

6:54 That "right" really does sound like a duck.

[@Doping1234]

Are there no diary entries of Stalin about Chiangs letter? His reaction is so weird, I'd love to know what was going through his head

[@TimeGhost]

There is nothing concluive, but Chuangls son was in Moscow studying... that could be a clue that uncle Joe felt he had control over Chiang.

[@Doping1234]

@@TimeGhost Thank you for the anwser! So it might be the age old tactic of hostage taking :)

[@chaplainjamesthicc305]

Wait, Vasily Blücher? Sounds like whoever named him was a fan of old Marschall Vorwärts.

[@jrt818]

The thumbnail looks like the US ambassador, Adm. Harry Harris, to S. Korea with his controversial moustache.

[@lightbox617]

Chang and his wife, (possibly his extended family) came to the US in the late 40's with a lot of gold bullion. Many of his followers did the same.

[@Readingclub1903]

Time ghost what do you think about Patrick Buchanan book on ww2 called the unnecessary war?

[@spartacus-olsson]

I haven't read it and I won't as it is more of a political commentary than a history book. We tend to focus on works that outline events and provide factual analysis of what went on. As far as I understand Buchanan is trying to a make a singular point; that the British Empire needlessly went to war against the Imperial German Reich in 1914 and the Nazi German Reich in 1939. It has been criticised by some as post-fact appeasement and even been labeled as "anti-Semitic garbage" for reasons of overlooking the need to go to war against the Nazi German Reich to stop the crimes perpetrated against humanity by the Nazis. These views are obviously also political opinions that makes the book doubly contentious, and all the more counterproductive for us as a source. In the end, any work aiming to make singular point will not be very useful to gain an overall understanding of these extremely complex events, and might even be counterproductive by reducing the complexity of world history to simplistic, broad opinion based brushstrokes.

[@ernestsu8839]

There's a mistake on 03:18. At the time Taiwan was Japanese colony, not a part of China.

[@adamzhang92]

The "Dang" in Guomindang is pronounced like a drawn out "done"

[@Mark-zu6oz]

Is that green liquid in the decanter Aldebaran whiskey?

[@TimeGhost]

No, its Pfefferminz, Mint Liquor

[@Mark-zu6oz]

@@TimeGhost I was close, lol. Thanks for answering and for all the interesting videos.

[@jimmyli94650]

Chiang was never an extreme far right wing. He mistrusted the communists but never outright hate them from the start. The Canton Incident was main powder keg for his hatred of the communists. He don't knew the USSR was going to turn China into a communist country. I did say the USSR was straightening the CCP in the United Front to weaken the KMT. The Northern Expedition will face not only the Beiyang Warlords but also CCP uprising like the Nanchang Uprising after the communists was massacred in Shanghai. In the middle of the campaign the KMT split into the Wuhan and Nanjing factions. The Wuhan faction forced Chiang to abandon all power he gained and the Beiyang Warlords began a counteroffensive that forced back the NRA forcing the KMT to reinstate Chiang and uniting under the Nanjing faction.

[@abdelrahmanwael2551]

What a sly smile

[@67nairb]

1:02 what's Beiyang?

[@46pippi]

this is like game of thrones

[@Nick-rs5if]

Imagine a world where Sun Yat Sen and Vladimir Lenin lived. Imagine the implications, what world would we live in today?

[@TheBreadB]

Do you guys have any books to recommend about the interwar period?

[@spartacus-olsson]

Several, too many to make a comprehensive list... as we're dealing with world History here, it escalates quickly. But here a few of my favorites: For a very deep dive into the political workings of Kuomintang China I recommend *"War and Nationalism in China 1925-1945" by Hans van de Ven.* For a visceral first hand understanding of everyday Germany during the Weimar Republic I recommend *"What I Saw: Reports from Berlin, 1920-1933" a compilation of reports by Austrian journalist Joseph Roth,* made when he was based in Berlin at the time. For a deep dive into the rise of Naziism and Hitler I highly recommend *"Hitler: 1889-1936" by Ian Kershaw, or you grab the complete work "Hitler, a Biography"* while you're at it. Finally, if you want something that covers the period in general, but also deals with both World Wars, you cannot go amiss with *"A History of the Twentieth Century, One: 1900-1933" and "A History of the Twentieth Century, Two, 1933-1951" by Martin Gilbert* despite the broad strokes that Gilbert by force has to resort to, it provides a very comprehensive view of the world at the time.

[@TheBreadB]

@@spartacus-olsson Thank you very much!

[@brianplank5905]

I wanted to look up these leaders, but besides Chiang Kai-shek and Sun Yat-sen, I could not even get close to spelling the names of the men in this video.

[@spartacus-olsson]

They are Liao Zhongkai en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liao_Zhongkai Hu Hanmin en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu_Hanmin Wang Jingwei en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Jingwei Feng Yuxiang en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feng_Yuxiang

[@goodman4966]

why is there no games on warlord era? man all the factions You can play as not only with Kuomintang but many other and you fight in early chinese civil war .

[@SethReee]

There is a mod for Hearts of Iron 4 that focuses entirely on the Warlord Era of the Chinese Civil War

[@goodman4966]

i already know that mod it is good but i want a game on that era something that go more into the Warlord Era and the Chinese Civil War and the Second Sino-Japanese War .

[@flamefang]

@@goodman4966 It's too obscure, unfortunately. Few know what it is outside China, and within China there's pretty strong pressure to push a pro-CCP narrative that'd make the warlord era considerably less interesting.

[@trisblackshaw1640]

No Great Northern Expedition video then...

[@John77Doe]

Monopoly on the Opium Trade. 😍😍😍😍😍

[@DARTHXE0N]

Where's part 1 and 2?

[@thorlaus]

15:58 Stalin's face says it all

[@Botman01]

*Any unsure/unclear parts here , check The China Mirage

[@zxmar05]

Who is the artist of the paintings on the wall?

[@Artur_M.]

I believe it's Tamara Łempicka (also known as de Lempicka).

[@slightlyconfused876]

Tamara De Lempicka

[@TimeGhost]

Correct

[@slightlyconfused876]

@@TimeGhostI know. People don't tell me I am a genius for nothing. I have to pay them.